Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining me on the line right now. We've got a
quick interview lined up because I know she's got to
get into Parliament and joining me on the line ahead
of Parliament sitting again today is the Independent Member for Johnson,
Justine Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Good morning to you, Justine.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Hey, Katie, how are you going?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yeah? Really well, I know your press for time with
Parliament heading in very shortly, Justine, keen to get your
take on the situation yesterday in Parliament the Domestic Violence
Prevention Minister Robin Carl calling out the Northern Territory Coroner
when tabling the government's response in Parliament to the coroner's
recommendations from the inquest into the deaths of four Aboriginal
(00:38):
women whose lives were lost in domestic violence incidents. Justine
she accused the coroner of not being brave enough to
make any recommendations related to Aboriginal culture, pointing to examples
noted elsewhere in the findings of cultural pressure used as
a form of coercive control. Do you feel as though
(01:00):
the recommendations hit the mark?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
The first thing I want to say is that I
feel really concerned about the ongoing blurring of the separation
of powers between the courts and Parliament. The coroner's job
is to investigate what's caused to death and make recommendations
to make sure it doesn't happen again. And when Parliament
starts to make the kind of commentary or ministers that
(01:25):
we heard yesterday in Parliament about their findings, I think
that's really concerning to all of us. If they don't
like them, that's fine. But if they're talking about the
individual coroner, which they did yesterday and the approach they take,
I think that's really worrying. I think we've waited. We
waited for a really long time which the ministers finding,
(01:48):
but we waited for more than eight months for the
government response to that finding. Those findings. You and I
have talked before about, you know how this is our
most urgent issue here in the Northern Territory. I have
no doubt that every single member of the Parliament agrees
that this season erging issue that we need to deal with,
you know, and we need to deal with as a
matter of priority. I think the response that we saw
(02:11):
yesterday that was table to those recommendations, I was really
disappointed with that response, Like it was not robust.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
It.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
You can talk about what was actually going to happen
when those you know, what were their performance measures? Where's
the budget for different things? What does it actually mean?
When are we going to get reporting against it so
that we can know the recommendations that the government has
accepted whether or not they're actually making it different.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And I know the government said that they've obviously said
that it's they're going to you know, like they've gone
through it. Twenty four of the thirty five recommendations related
to programs are related to programs or processes already in place,
is what they say in relation to those recommendations. Are
there any specific recommendations that you think need to sort
(02:57):
of be implemented immediately?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Well, I think all of them should be implemented immediately.
I think that we owe that to the women and
the families who gave testimony to that coronium who are
continue to be harmed here. I think that's the expertise
that we have heard will work. So I think all
of them need to be implemented urgently. I think when
we hear from the Minister that twenty four of them
(03:24):
are already happening, I want to actually know what that means.
I want to know what money is going to them,
how it's going to be played out because the detail
is just not there, and saying we're accepting the recommendations
with a one liner in the report for I just
don't think that's good enough in terms of us feeling
confident that these things are going to be addressed. Hearing yes, sorry, yeah,
(03:49):
I'm I'm going to say, we know you go.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Sorry the minister, that's okay.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
The Minister said some of the measures have been in
place for years without delivering the results we need, and
that that's why they're developing a domestic family Violence Roadmap
for the prevention of further incidents like this.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I mean, what is your response to that?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Do you think that we continue to go down the
path that we are or do we actually need a
bit of a shake up here to try and change
the way that things are happening.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I think we absolutely need to do more, There's no
question about that at all. I don't really know, once again,
exactly what the Minister means when she says that, so
I'd love to have more detail when she says this
has been this particular thing has been happening for years
and it hasn't had you know, the impact that we
wanted to have. The information we had before us doesn't
(04:40):
tell me what she actually means by that. If there
are things that we need to change, we absolutely should
change them. One of the things that we know this
minister has disbanded was the Advisory Advisory Council. I think
it's all that's not quite the right name on Zebe,
which was you know, government sector experts, people have lived
experience working toge ever to try and make sure that
(05:01):
whatever we're doing is working most effectively. The Minister has
a different approach to that, and that's that's her prerogative.
But I feel really concerned that this is another example
of not listening to people who are going to tell
us what's going to work to make women and children safer.
You know, whatever of you is, that's that's what we
(05:22):
all want, and we want to do things that are
going to be the most effective, and that's that's what
we owe to the women and children in the territory.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Justine, I do also want to ask you before I
let you go this morning. I know that you are due,
as I understand it, today you're going to be calling
on the federal government to urgently establish a national body
with oversight of Aboriginal deaths in custody. The Inti News
reporting that while law and order usually falls under the
State and territory government's remit, you've given that notice that
(05:53):
you're going to bring that motion calling for Commonwealth oversight
into Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander deaths in police and
is in custody. What exactly do you want to see here?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So just that that actually won't come up today because
I think, as we've talked about before, the way Parliament
works if you give notice of emotion and sometime we
get to it down the track. So we won't be
debating that today. But what But just so people understand
Aboriginal rrest Radia deaths in place and prison custody, there's
more than five hundred in Australia since the Royal Commission.
(06:26):
We're not doing what needs to happen to address this.
It's not just a problem in the Northern Territory. It's
a problem across Australia and we need a national response
to it.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Okay, So you actually think it should be a body
that oversees all Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander deaths in
custody across Australia.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah, yeah, not not not only the Northern Territory, across Australia.
I mean, I think here we have specific issues that
we're dealing with, but they're not unique to here, Justine.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Or just about let you go. I know you've got
to get in there. What's on your agenda today in Parliament?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
It's going to be a big day, so we know
that they're going to be tabling the changes to you.
Just in fact, I know your listeners are very interested
in that. I have seen the same as everyone else.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I e.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
I don't actually know what's in that bill. I feel
very concerned about our kind of democratic process and what
I'm elected to do, which looks to represent my constituents
when I'm going to be asked to vote on a
bill with a lot of detail in it without having
time to actually understand what the implications are. But we'll
be seeing that for the first time today, we'll be
voting on it tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So were you not briefed by the government.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
We were briefed on Monday, So we were brief with
a sort of you know, a general overview of what's happening.
It's really difficult to know what questions for us when
you haven't seen the detail of the bill, and so
I mean it's great that we've had a briefing, just
like you. We got to see what a sighood looks like.
I know you had that opportunity as well. But in
(07:53):
terms of the actual detail of the bill and what
it's going to mean, we haven't had the opportunity to
do that. We know that governments am very open that
they haven't consulted with the Children's Commissioner, with Legal Services
in developing it. There's no time to do that now.
And I guess just what I want to say very
quickly is part of my job is to represent my constituents.
If there's anyone in my community who has concerns about this,
(08:16):
whatever you think I want to hear from you, let
me know, because my job, along with everyone else there
in Parliament, is to represent the views of the community
and make good laws for everyone. And this process is
not allowing me to do my job.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Well well, Justine, I can hear those bells ringing, go
Thank you very much, Thanks for your time, you too,
Thank you
Joining me on the line right now. We've got a
quick interview lined up because I know she's got to
get into Parliament and joining me on the line ahead
of Parliament sitting again today is the Independent Member for Johnson,
Justine Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Good morning to you, Justine.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Hey, Katie, how are you going?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yeah? Really well, I know your press for time with
Parliament heading in very shortly, Justine, keen to get your
take on the situation yesterday in Parliament the Domestic Violence
Prevention Minister Robin Carl calling out the Northern Territory Coroner
when tabling the government's response in Parliament to the coroner's
recommendations from the inquest into the deaths of four Aboriginal
(00:38):
women whose lives were lost in domestic violence incidents. Justine
she accused the coroner of not being brave enough to
make any recommendations related to Aboriginal culture, pointing to examples
noted elsewhere in the findings of cultural pressure used as
a form of coercive control. Do you feel as though
(01:00):
the recommendations hit the mark?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
The first thing I want to say is that I
feel really concerned about the ongoing blurring of the separation
of powers between the courts and Parliament. The coroner's job
is to investigate what's caused to death and make recommendations
to make sure it doesn't happen again. And when Parliament
starts to make the kind of commentary or ministers that
(01:25):
we heard yesterday in Parliament about their findings, I think
that's really concerning to all of us. If they don't
like them, that's fine. But if they're talking about the
individual coroner, which they did yesterday and the approach they take,
I think that's really worrying. I think we've waited. We
waited for a really long time which the ministers finding,
(01:48):
but we waited for more than eight months for the
government response to that finding. Those findings. You and I
have talked before about, you know how this is our
most urgent issue here in the Northern Territory. I have
no doubt that every single member of the Parliament agrees
that this season erging issue that we need to deal with,
you know, and we need to deal with as a
matter of priority. I think the response that we saw
(02:11):
yesterday that was table to those recommendations, I was really
disappointed with that response, Like it was not robust.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
It.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
You can talk about what was actually going to happen
when those you know, what were their performance measures? Where's
the budget for different things? What does it actually mean?
When are we going to get reporting against it so
that we can know the recommendations that the government has
accepted whether or not they're actually making it different.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And I know the government said that they've obviously said
that it's they're going to you know, like they've gone
through it. Twenty four of the thirty five recommendations related
to programs are related to programs or processes already in place,
is what they say in relation to those recommendations. Are
there any specific recommendations that you think need to sort
(02:57):
of be implemented immediately?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Well, I think all of them should be implemented immediately.
I think that we owe that to the women and
the families who gave testimony to that coronium who are
continue to be harmed here. I think that's the expertise
that we have heard will work. So I think all
of them need to be implemented urgently. I think when
we hear from the Minister that twenty four of them
(03:24):
are already happening, I want to actually know what that means.
I want to know what money is going to them,
how it's going to be played out because the detail
is just not there, and saying we're accepting the recommendations
with a one liner in the report for I just
don't think that's good enough in terms of us feeling
confident that these things are going to be addressed. Hearing yes, sorry, yeah,
(03:49):
I'm I'm going to say, we know you go.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Sorry the minister, that's okay.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
The Minister said some of the measures have been in
place for years without delivering the results we need, and
that that's why they're developing a domestic family Violence Roadmap
for the prevention of further incidents like this.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I mean, what is your response to that?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Do you think that we continue to go down the
path that we are or do we actually need a
bit of a shake up here to try and change
the way that things are happening.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I think we absolutely need to do more, There's no
question about that at all. I don't really know, once again,
exactly what the Minister means when she says that, so
I'd love to have more detail when she says this
has been this particular thing has been happening for years
and it hasn't had you know, the impact that we
wanted to have. The information we had before us doesn't
(04:40):
tell me what she actually means by that. If there
are things that we need to change, we absolutely should
change them. One of the things that we know this
minister has disbanded was the Advisory Advisory Council. I think
it's all that's not quite the right name on Zebe,
which was you know, government sector experts, people have lived
experience working toge ever to try and make sure that
(05:01):
whatever we're doing is working most effectively. The Minister has
a different approach to that, and that's that's her prerogative.
But I feel really concerned that this is another example
of not listening to people who are going to tell
us what's going to work to make women and children safer.
You know, whatever of you is, that's that's what we
(05:22):
all want, and we want to do things that are
going to be the most effective, and that's that's what
we owe to the women and children in the territory.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Justine, I do also want to ask you before I
let you go this morning. I know that you are due,
as I understand it, today you're going to be calling
on the federal government to urgently establish a national body
with oversight of Aboriginal deaths in custody. The Inti News
reporting that while law and order usually falls under the
State and territory government's remit, you've given that notice that
(05:53):
you're going to bring that motion calling for Commonwealth oversight
into Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander deaths in police and
is in custody. What exactly do you want to see here?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So just that that actually won't come up today because
I think, as we've talked about before, the way Parliament
works if you give notice of emotion and sometime we
get to it down the track. So we won't be
debating that today. But what But just so people understand
Aboriginal rrest Radia deaths in place and prison custody, there's
more than five hundred in Australia since the Royal Commission.
(06:26):
We're not doing what needs to happen to address this.
It's not just a problem in the Northern Territory. It's
a problem across Australia and we need a national response
to it.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Okay, So you actually think it should be a body
that oversees all Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander deaths in
custody across Australia.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah, yeah, not not not only the Northern Territory, across Australia.
I mean, I think here we have specific issues that
we're dealing with, but they're not unique to here, Justine.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Or just about let you go. I know you've got
to get in there. What's on your agenda today in Parliament?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
It's going to be a big day, so we know
that they're going to be tabling the changes to you.
Just in fact, I know your listeners are very interested
in that. I have seen the same as everyone else.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I e.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
I don't actually know what's in that bill. I feel
very concerned about our kind of democratic process and what
I'm elected to do, which looks to represent my constituents
when I'm going to be asked to vote on a
bill with a lot of detail in it without having
time to actually understand what the implications are. But we'll
be seeing that for the first time today, we'll be
voting on it tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So were you not briefed by the government.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
We were briefed on Monday, So we were brief with
a sort of you know, a general overview of what's happening.
It's really difficult to know what questions for us when
you haven't seen the detail of the bill, and so
I mean it's great that we've had a briefing, just
like you. We got to see what a sighood looks like.
I know you had that opportunity as well. But in
(07:53):
terms of the actual detail of the bill and what
it's going to mean, we haven't had the opportunity to
do that. We know that governments am very open that
they haven't consulted with the Children's Commissioner, with Legal Services
in developing it. There's no time to do that now.
And I guess just what I want to say very
quickly is part of my job is to represent my constituents.
If there's anyone in my community who has concerns about this,
(08:16):
whatever you think I want to hear from you, let
me know, because my job, along with everyone else there
in Parliament, is to represent the views of the community
and make good laws for everyone. And this process is
not allowing me to do my job.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Well well, Justine, I can hear those bells ringing, go
Thank you very much, Thanks for your time, you too,
Thank you
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