Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
No our.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
A group of twenty one organizations have signed an open
letter condemning the Northern Territory government's law and order policies,
including the OC spray trial. Now, Victims of Crime met
Bishop Charles Gougi and Indigenous justice advocate Thomas Mayo are
among those that signed this letter, calling for the COLP
to implement evidence based and indigenous lead approaches to community safety.
(00:24):
The letter also raises concerns about police, public safety officers
patrolling public housing and transport, claiming it endangers marginalized Territorians.
Now joining us on the line to talk more about
this is Thomas Mayo. Good morning to you, Thomas, Good
morning Katie. Now the OC spray rollout happens today. What
(00:44):
are your concerns around this.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Well, the concerns are they're ignoring the experts that are
saying that introducing more weapons into the community will only
increase the potential of violence and actually reduces the safety
of a range of people. We've seen police express concerns
about the readiness of the community to to, you know,
(01:11):
undertake this trial. We've seen victims of domestic violence raise
concerns about the use of the OC spray being turned
on innocent people or being used to control people. And
you know, so it's a it's an ignorant approach from
the Northern Territory. Government ignores experts, ignores people that are
(01:35):
vulnerable to violence, and you know, it just makes Territorians
less safe.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Why do you reckon the rollout of the OC spray
here in the Northern Territory could potentially be sort of
more dangerous than what it is in Western Australia where
it is already available.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well, it's it's still early days as far as the
outcomes in Western Australia, but we saw the same concerns
raised there. There's no evidence that it's making anyone safer
in Western Australia. And again this is why the letter
calls on evidence based approaches to how we keep the
community safe, how we reduce crime, rather than the sort
(02:14):
of you know, blaming type policies. The rhetoric you know
that you know is somewhat aimed at Indigenous Australians, you know,
Indigenous Territorians, as if it's normal for us to you know,
for our people to be almost one hundred percent of
the makeup of those that are in prison, you know,
(02:36):
and when they need support, and especially when the government
is taking away support services that that would reduce crime,
you know. I mean the reasons why we have social
issues in our communities is because of the poverty, because
of the trauma that's carried, the mental health issues, you know,
(02:57):
the health issues. You know, these these are the things
that the government should be addressing to make a community safer.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I know that there will definitely be people listening right now,
those that have been victims of crime that you know,
aren't I guess they're probably not thinking about what raised
somebody may or may not be who has you know,
who's committed that crime against them. But what they're really
concerned about is the way in which it's impacted their
lives and and you know, particularly some of the older
(03:28):
people that we have on the show that have raised
concerns with me over recent years about not feeling safe
to go out for a walk, not feeling safe to
be able to go out and do their shopping on
their own, and feel as though, you know, they may
not use the OC spray, but it is an added
layer to maybe protect them should a dangerous situation arise.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, Katie, you know, I'm born and bred in Darwin.
And I'm a Territorian and I love my home, you know, Darwin,
and I've raised a family, I've still got two young kids,
and I share the strong desire for a safer community.
I see the you know, the issues on the streets.
You know, people that are struggling. I see the violence.
(04:12):
You know, it's it's not anything new to any of us.
But what we do know from certainly from my experience,
you know, a lifetime of being a Territorian and seeing
the policies that government make and listening to the experts
as these things develop. And we've got the statistics and
the research in that the type of policies that the
(04:34):
country Liberal Party are implementing in government will only make
things worse. It actually fails to deliver on a promise
to reduce crime and to make people safer. And we're
a country that has gone away from introducing more weapons
into society. We know as Australians when we look at
other countries that more weapons that you know that the
(04:58):
lack of access to weapons actually makes us safer in
this country. But the COLP is just going against that
and just using emotion rather than thinking about and listening
to experts and community leaders. So what are the.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Other concerns that have been raised in the letter. I
know that there's definitely been concerns around the police, public
safety officers being armed, for example.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, I mean this is just I mean, it's a
recipe for disaster. Again. You're putting more weapons out there
that could Sure they could be used in some situations
where they're needed, but you know, we can it leads
to these weapons eventually falling into the wrong hands. That's
a great concern. I mean, that's what domestic violence victims
(05:45):
have been saying in the media recently about this trial
of OC spray. They're afraid of these weapons being on them.
You know, we talk about joggers feeling more safe. I
mean what if what if the you know, the pepper
spray falls into the wrong hands and is used in
the opposite direction. I mean, this is something that is
a real concern.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Look, something that I has been raised with me this morning.
We've just got a message coming through saying Katie with respect.
You know, Thomas is a man, a you know, a
well built man. How dare he tell me is a
sixty five kilo woman who's pushing sixty years old? That
I can't defend myself.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I'm not saying that a person can't defend themselves. I
understand my privilege of being a bigger, you know, bigger
person and all the rest, and I want safety for
the person, you know, the audience that is that is
called in it's But I think it's important for us
to keep in mind that we do not make the
(06:47):
community safer by introducing more weapons, and the way to
reduce crime in the territory is to address the issues
to do with, you know, the mental health of people,
to support families that need it, and then you get
less of these crimes.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Do you think there's some irony in the fact though,
that it's it's harder to purchase the OC spray than
what it is, a machete or a crossbow.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Well, I've looked at the requirements to purchase it, and
I think they're pretty thin as far as the protections go. Again,
you know, a person can I mean basically, there's no
there's no checks before someone actually receives the weapon. They
you know, they have to declare that they are an
(07:33):
eligible person. But but I think it's quite paper thin
the protections again of these weapons being in the wrong hand.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Hey, one of the issues that's been raised over the
weekend is I know that that comments in the letter
that went out also included comments from victims of crime,
the Victims of Crime CEO. Now, the board came out
over the weekend and said that they did not authorize
the comments and they're not the views of their organization
(08:05):
who put the letter together. And I mean, did the
CEO approve those comments before they went out.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Look, I don't know what happened in that organization, but
what it does tell me is that there's uncertainty about,
you know, the best way forward, and that uncertainty I
think is widely and deeply felt in the in the territory,
in the community right now, which goes to show just
how the colp of again rushed something through based on emotion,
(08:36):
based on you know, just building up sensationalizing things. Look
into territory, listen to the experts, Thomas.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Do you think though, that it discredits the letter in
any way if you've got you know, comments from the
CEO included in there from victims of crime, but then
you've got their board coming out saying, hang on a second,
we did not approve this.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well, look again, I can't speak for that organization and
their processes, but I can point to the almost I
think it's around twenty other organizations, organizations that support people
that are victims of domestic violence, that support, you know,
people that are struggling with mental health, you know, that
support families and youth to get on with our life
(09:22):
and choose a better path if they're going down the
wrong one. All of these organizations that are on the
front line are saying that the policies of the anti
government are only going to make things worse. And as
a father and as a territorium, this concerns me because
when these approaches are taken, there might seem like a
(09:46):
fix right now, but we know that it only makes
things worse. You know, you force people down a path
that just makes things more unsafe.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Thomas, Any indication from the Northern Territory government if they're
going to sit down with you, or if they are
going to have a discussion with the with the twenty
organizations that have signed that letter, well, look, I.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Really hope they do. I hope they take notice. I
mean the record will tell us that they won't. They
have Trump like rhetoric where they're labeling advocates that have
worked on these issues and understand them deeply for their
whole lives. We've seen them and expert that know this stuff,
(10:32):
that have studied it, that have studied the research, that
labeled them as uneducated. Now, I hope they changed tact
and talk to these organizations and work out solutions with
the experts and these organizations that are on the front line.
But you know, making these weapons more available, you know,
(10:52):
reducing the opportunities for justice with their bail laws that
are toughest in the country, sending you to prison and
introducing spit hoods and making it okay to lock up
ten year old None of this stuff actually reduces crime,
and it actually makes things worse in the near future. Well,
Thomas Mayo, get people down that path.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Thomas Mayo, Indigenous Justice advocate. Appreciate your time this morning.
Thanks so much for having a chat with us.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Thank you, Katie, Thank you,
No our.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
A group of twenty one organizations have signed an open
letter condemning the Northern Territory government's law and order policies,
including the OC spray trial. Now, Victims of Crime met
Bishop Charles Gougi and Indigenous justice advocate Thomas Mayo are
among those that signed this letter, calling for the COLP
to implement evidence based and indigenous lead approaches to community safety.
(00:24):
The letter also raises concerns about police, public safety officers
patrolling public housing and transport, claiming it endangers marginalized Territorians.
Now joining us on the line to talk more about
this is Thomas Mayo. Good morning to you, Thomas, Good
morning Katie. Now the OC spray rollout happens today. What
(00:44):
are your concerns around this.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Well, the concerns are they're ignoring the experts that are
saying that introducing more weapons into the community will only
increase the potential of violence and actually reduces the safety
of a range of people. We've seen police express concerns
about the readiness of the community to to, you know,
(01:11):
undertake this trial. We've seen victims of domestic violence raise
concerns about the use of the OC spray being turned
on innocent people or being used to control people. And
you know, so it's a it's an ignorant approach from
the Northern Territory. Government ignores experts, ignores people that are
(01:35):
vulnerable to violence, and you know, it just makes Territorians
less safe.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Why do you reckon the rollout of the OC spray
here in the Northern Territory could potentially be sort of
more dangerous than what it is in Western Australia where
it is already available.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well, it's it's still early days as far as the
outcomes in Western Australia, but we saw the same concerns
raised there. There's no evidence that it's making anyone safer
in Western Australia. And again this is why the letter
calls on evidence based approaches to how we keep the
community safe, how we reduce crime, rather than the sort
(02:14):
of you know, blaming type policies. The rhetoric you know
that you know is somewhat aimed at Indigenous Australians, you know,
Indigenous Territorians, as if it's normal for us to you know,
for our people to be almost one hundred percent of
the makeup of those that are in prison, you know,
(02:36):
and when they need support, and especially when the government
is taking away support services that that would reduce crime,
you know. I mean the reasons why we have social
issues in our communities is because of the poverty, because
of the trauma that's carried, the mental health issues, you know,
(02:57):
the health issues. You know, these these are the things
that the government should be addressing to make a community safer.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I know that there will definitely be people listening right now,
those that have been victims of crime that you know,
aren't I guess they're probably not thinking about what raised
somebody may or may not be who has you know,
who's committed that crime against them. But what they're really
concerned about is the way in which it's impacted their
lives and and you know, particularly some of the older
(03:28):
people that we have on the show that have raised
concerns with me over recent years about not feeling safe
to go out for a walk, not feeling safe to
be able to go out and do their shopping on
their own, and feel as though, you know, they may
not use the OC spray, but it is an added
layer to maybe protect them should a dangerous situation arise.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, Katie, you know, I'm born and bred in Darwin.
And I'm a Territorian and I love my home, you know, Darwin,
and I've raised a family, I've still got two young kids,
and I share the strong desire for a safer community.
I see the you know, the issues on the streets.
You know, people that are struggling. I see the violence.
(04:12):
You know, it's it's not anything new to any of us.
But what we do know from certainly from my experience,
you know, a lifetime of being a Territorian and seeing
the policies that government make and listening to the experts
as these things develop. And we've got the statistics and
the research in that the type of policies that the
(04:34):
country Liberal Party are implementing in government will only make
things worse. It actually fails to deliver on a promise
to reduce crime and to make people safer. And we're
a country that has gone away from introducing more weapons
into society. We know as Australians when we look at
other countries that more weapons that you know that the
(04:58):
lack of access to weapons actually makes us safer in
this country. But the COLP is just going against that
and just using emotion rather than thinking about and listening
to experts and community leaders. So what are the.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Other concerns that have been raised in the letter. I
know that there's definitely been concerns around the police, public
safety officers being armed, for example.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, I mean this is just I mean, it's a
recipe for disaster. Again. You're putting more weapons out there
that could Sure they could be used in some situations
where they're needed, but you know, we can it leads
to these weapons eventually falling into the wrong hands. That's
a great concern. I mean, that's what domestic violence victims
(05:45):
have been saying in the media recently about this trial
of OC spray. They're afraid of these weapons being on them.
You know, we talk about joggers feeling more safe. I
mean what if what if the you know, the pepper
spray falls into the wrong hands and is used in
the opposite direction. I mean, this is something that is
a real concern.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Look, something that I has been raised with me this morning.
We've just got a message coming through saying Katie with respect.
You know, Thomas is a man, a you know, a
well built man. How dare he tell me is a
sixty five kilo woman who's pushing sixty years old? That
I can't defend myself.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I'm not saying that a person can't defend themselves. I
understand my privilege of being a bigger, you know, bigger
person and all the rest, and I want safety for
the person, you know, the audience that is that is
called in it's But I think it's important for us
to keep in mind that we do not make the
(06:47):
community safer by introducing more weapons, and the way to
reduce crime in the territory is to address the issues
to do with, you know, the mental health of people,
to support families that need it, and then you get
less of these crimes.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Do you think there's some irony in the fact though,
that it's it's harder to purchase the OC spray than
what it is, a machete or a crossbow.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Well, I've looked at the requirements to purchase it, and
I think they're pretty thin as far as the protections go. Again,
you know, a person can I mean basically, there's no
there's no checks before someone actually receives the weapon. They
you know, they have to declare that they are an
(07:33):
eligible person. But but I think it's quite paper thin
the protections again of these weapons being in the wrong hand.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Hey, one of the issues that's been raised over the
weekend is I know that that comments in the letter
that went out also included comments from victims of crime,
the Victims of Crime CEO. Now, the board came out
over the weekend and said that they did not authorize
the comments and they're not the views of their organization
(08:05):
who put the letter together. And I mean, did the
CEO approve those comments before they went out.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Look, I don't know what happened in that organization, but
what it does tell me is that there's uncertainty about,
you know, the best way forward, and that uncertainty I
think is widely and deeply felt in the in the territory,
in the community right now, which goes to show just
how the colp of again rushed something through based on emotion,
(08:36):
based on you know, just building up sensationalizing things. Look
into territory, listen to the experts, Thomas.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Do you think though, that it discredits the letter in
any way if you've got you know, comments from the
CEO included in there from victims of crime, but then
you've got their board coming out saying, hang on a second,
we did not approve this.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well, look again, I can't speak for that organization and
their processes, but I can point to the almost I
think it's around twenty other organizations, organizations that support people
that are victims of domestic violence, that support, you know,
people that are struggling with mental health, you know, that
support families and youth to get on with our life
(09:22):
and choose a better path if they're going down the
wrong one. All of these organizations that are on the
front line are saying that the policies of the anti
government are only going to make things worse. And as
a father and as a territorium, this concerns me because
when these approaches are taken, there might seem like a
(09:46):
fix right now, but we know that it only makes
things worse. You know, you force people down a path
that just makes things more unsafe.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Thomas, Any indication from the Northern Territory government if they're
going to sit down with you, or if they are
going to have a discussion with the with the twenty
organizations that have signed that letter, well, look, I.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Really hope they do. I hope they take notice. I
mean the record will tell us that they won't. They
have Trump like rhetoric where they're labeling advocates that have
worked on these issues and understand them deeply for their
whole lives. We've seen them and expert that know this stuff,
(10:32):
that have studied it, that have studied the research, that
labeled them as uneducated. Now, I hope they changed tact
and talk to these organizations and work out solutions with
the experts and these organizations that are on the front line.
But you know, making these weapons more available, you know,
(10:52):
reducing the opportunities for justice with their bail laws that
are toughest in the country, sending you to prison and
introducing spit hoods and making it okay to lock up
ten year old None of this stuff actually reduces crime,
and it actually makes things worse in the near future. Well,
Thomas Mayo, get people down that path.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Thomas Mayo, Indigenous Justice advocate. Appreciate your time this morning.
Thanks so much for having a chat with us.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Thank you, Katie, Thank you,
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