Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, as you heard on the show yesterday, there's been
a fresh bid from developers to build thousands of homes
on undeveloped land in Darwin's rural area after a similar
proposal was rejected in twenty twenty due to opposition from locals.
Now Melbourne based developer Intrapac Property has written to the
Planning Minister Josh Burgoyne asking for an amendment to the
(00:22):
Northern Territories Planning Scheme to make way for the project,
set to be named Lloyd Creek Rural Village. The proposal
would see four thousand homes built south of Humptydo in
an area which was zoned for rural living. Now, yesterday
we heard from the former member for Goiter Kezi Epiic.
She is one of those who is opposed to this project,
(00:45):
along with several others and joining me on the show
though to answer some further questions is Intrapac's chief executive
Max Schiffman. Good morning to you, Max, Good morning Katie,
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, Max,
what exactly is being proposed this time round?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Sure? So, look what we're trying to do at the
moment is a mend the planning scheme to create what's
called an area plan, and that basically sets the framework
for the long term vision of the development that we're
posing out durylloid crete. Essentially, we're talking about a thirty
plus year horizon to deliver in the order of four
thousand homes plus a village center across that site, which
(01:26):
is twenty eight hundred hectares in size. So it's an
enormous site. It's already zoned for rural living, and what
we're trying to do is really create a more robust
framework to make sure that it rolls out in a
more well designed, well planned way, so don't have the
issues we do we have in some parts of the
Royal Area. You're lacking some of those infrastructure bits and
amenities over the longer term.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Now, in terms of the number of blocks, well, I mean,
we know it's going to be from what I can
see that proposal flag four thousand homes. How many of
those blocks will be four thousand square meters? How many
are going to be a hectare, how many are going
to be two hectare?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Sure, So what we're saying is, you know, some of
that detail has to go through a more standard planning
process after an area plan is approved. But what we've
committed to is essentially density caps across different zones of
the site. So you've got the village center area, and
that's a relatively small area of the total site, but
that's where you'd have blocks on the slightly smaller ends.
(02:28):
They're still very large blocks, but slightly smaller than what
you might have in rural area currently. Then the block
sides get larger as you get away from those village centers,
So ultimately at the very edge of the site you're
ending up with lots that are entirely consistent with the
development that's already in place there in the area. So
across the total site, we've got a maximum density of
one point five lots per hectare, and that's how you
(02:52):
get to that four thousand figure.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Okay, So there will obviously, by the sounds of it,
some of them will be the smaller size, some of
them are going to be large. But you're still working
through sort of how many of what I spies?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, exactly. I mean that you need to respond to
the specifics of the land in a particular zone that
you're working with, because you've got different topography you'll have
different constraints around some of the biodiversity corridors we want
to retain. You've got water courses that we have to
protect and work around, So there's still a level of
detailed design that has to happen before we actually develop anything.
What this area plan is really about is setting the
(03:25):
broad principles, the broad framework in the way that everyone
can work towards in terms of delivering the project over
the longer term. And I should say that one of
the things that we set out to do is really
understand better what the attitudes of the Dalin community are
and what are community is towards rural development and the
sorts of things they would like to see. So we
(03:45):
conducted some pretty substantial research with focus groups to understand
what people want, and one of the clear messages was
that people want that sort of rural lifestyle. They want
to have the room to move and grow, but they
also don't necessarily have the large blocks that people used
to the two HEC deal lots or the eight HEC
deal lots, because they do come with a lot of maintenance.
(04:05):
And so what we're trying to deliver here is something
that hasn't really been done before, hasn't been planned in
this lay before, but ultimately still gives you that perfect
mix of the more rural lifestyle, but maybe in a
more attainable way for more people.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Now, I know there's been quite a few people raising
concerns around water, you know, like how is that going
to work?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, so look, when we went through a previous process,
one of the in fact the biggest issue, I would say,
was that we're proposing to use groundwater from the aquifer.
And one of the key things that's changed now is
that you've got the strous water treatment plant project that's
up and running and Doe to bit completed next year
as part of the Mantan Dam project. So what that
(04:50):
means is we can actually can connect all of the
new lots to reticulated water instead, so there's no impact
on the aquifer, no impact on the groundwater. We're going
to be using town water connecting all the lots to it.
And that really was the biggest issue that we've faced previously.
Now that we've got a resolution to that, it opens
up the site.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So no need for bores. Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That's correct? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
All right, Well, I suppose that is something that people
have said is a concern for them. I mean, one
of the biggest concerns that we're hearing on the tech
sne and also sort of the phone lines have lit
up now, is that people are worried it's not really
going to be rural, that the blocks are going to
be smaller and they're not going to have the services needed.
I mean, what do you say to them.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, well, again, you've got to look at how the
rural area developed, and so what we're actually talking about
is returning to that sort of style of development that
you had thirty years ago in the rural area, where
you had a township and a village with the local
shops and the school and that sort of thing like
your Humpty dooes, and you had still very large blocks
relative to what you're seeing in the newer suburbs of Darwin.
(05:55):
For example, we're talking a minimum lot size that's probably
in the order of three and a half to four
times bigger than the lots of getting in areas like
Zacollie at the moment. But you're doing it in a
pattern that lets people still access those local facilities nearby.
And then as I said, you get bigger and bigger lots.
The further way you get from that infrastructure and amenity.
(06:15):
So the good thing about what we're doing by planning
in this holistic way is making sure that we've allowed
for all those things up front. It doesn't mean you'll
have a school day one, but it means you know
where the school's going to be and something we can
work towards it. It knows where your public transport routes
will be. It knows where you'll be able to have
your parks and gardens and buidiversity corridors. You'll know we've
got your open space network. All of that can be
(06:36):
designed from the outset, and then you're working within those
parameters to deliver the project over that very very long timeframe.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I mean, how many of those blocks do you sort
of have to sell though before you're in a situation
where you are able to get the you know, the
public bus network for example, to have a stop nearby.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah. Look, it's a great question, and it's going to
be an ongoing discussion that we have with the operators
with the government around when they cann new services. There
are already bus services to the site, by the way,
they probably the most frequent as everyone would like, but Obviously,
the more you have a population there that can use it,
the greater the chances you'll start to increase the frequency
of those services.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Now, someone's just messaged through Derby from the dou's message
through and said, is it going to be septic or
town sewerage? From what you were saying, it sounds like town.
I don't know if we've lost Max there, I've got you.
I'm not sure whether you heard that one. Somebody questioning
whether it's going to be septic or town sewerage.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, so the majority of this site will be able
to use septics. There's been a lot of change in
technology around how you can service either an individual site
or small groups of sites, and that's what we're looking
at at the moment. Plus, there's been some changes to
the waste toward management rules in the rural area, which
are very dependent on the type of soil conditions that
you have and the soil sort of ground conditions that
(07:58):
we have on the site themselves. To those newer rules,
so you can use a septic on a smaller lot
and perhaps what you might have been able to thirty
forty years ago.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Now we are. I mean, look, Max, there's plenty of
messages coming through people you know, wanting really to keep rural.
I guess is the most clear message I can I
can make. But what are the next steps from your
perspective in terms of you know, getting things moving?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, well, firstly, we agree we're trying to keep real
rule and some people are sort of imagining that you're
going to have four thousand homes built there overnight, Like
that's absolutely not the case. They said, we're talking talking
through to forty years for this project to roll out,
and just imagine what the rural area looks like thirty
years ago and da, and it's the same sort of approach.
You just got to think a bit longer term, which
(08:44):
is the sort of way we're approaching the site. Both procedurally,
the area plan is out for public comment at the moment.
The exhibition period ends on the sixteenth of Mates. People
should have a look online and put their submissions in.
If the area Plan is approved, then that gives us
the ability to then start making the more detailed planning applications,
and that's when they get into the nitty gritty about
(09:07):
specific infrastructure, timing, lot size, and that goes to a
normal develop the content process.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
All right, Well, Max, we are going to have to
leave it there. Max Shifman, the CEO, of course of Intrapak,
who is looking at this development. Thank you very much
for your time. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
My pleasure.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Thank you,
Well, as you heard on the show yesterday, there's been
a fresh bid from developers to build thousands of homes
on undeveloped land in Darwin's rural area after a similar
proposal was rejected in twenty twenty due to opposition from locals.
Now Melbourne based developer Intrapac Property has written to the
Planning Minister Josh Burgoyne asking for an amendment to the
(00:22):
Northern Territories Planning Scheme to make way for the project,
set to be named Lloyd Creek Rural Village. The proposal
would see four thousand homes built south of Humptydo in
an area which was zoned for rural living. Now, yesterday
we heard from the former member for Goiter Kezi Epiic.
She is one of those who is opposed to this project,
(00:45):
along with several others and joining me on the show
though to answer some further questions is Intrapac's chief executive
Max Schiffman. Good morning to you, Max, Good morning Katie,
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, Max,
what exactly is being proposed this time round?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Sure? So, look what we're trying to do at the
moment is a mend the planning scheme to create what's
called an area plan, and that basically sets the framework
for the long term vision of the development that we're
posing out durylloid crete. Essentially, we're talking about a thirty
plus year horizon to deliver in the order of four
thousand homes plus a village center across that site, which
(01:26):
is twenty eight hundred hectares in size. So it's an
enormous site. It's already zoned for rural living, and what
we're trying to do is really create a more robust
framework to make sure that it rolls out in a
more well designed, well planned way, so don't have the
issues we do we have in some parts of the
Royal Area. You're lacking some of those infrastructure bits and
amenities over the longer term.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Now, in terms of the number of blocks, well, I mean,
we know it's going to be from what I can
see that proposal flag four thousand homes. How many of
those blocks will be four thousand square meters? How many
are going to be a hectare, how many are going
to be two hectare?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Sure, So what we're saying is, you know, some of
that detail has to go through a more standard planning
process after an area plan is approved. But what we've
committed to is essentially density caps across different zones of
the site. So you've got the village center area, and
that's a relatively small area of the total site, but
that's where you'd have blocks on the slightly smaller ends.
(02:28):
They're still very large blocks, but slightly smaller than what
you might have in rural area currently. Then the block
sides get larger as you get away from those village centers,
So ultimately at the very edge of the site you're
ending up with lots that are entirely consistent with the
development that's already in place there in the area. So
across the total site, we've got a maximum density of
one point five lots per hectare, and that's how you
(02:52):
get to that four thousand figure.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Okay, So there will obviously, by the sounds of it,
some of them will be the smaller size, some of
them are going to be large. But you're still working
through sort of how many of what I spies?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, exactly. I mean that you need to respond to
the specifics of the land in a particular zone that
you're working with, because you've got different topography you'll have
different constraints around some of the biodiversity corridors we want
to retain. You've got water courses that we have to
protect and work around, So there's still a level of
detailed design that has to happen before we actually develop anything.
What this area plan is really about is setting the
(03:25):
broad principles, the broad framework in the way that everyone
can work towards in terms of delivering the project over
the longer term. And I should say that one of
the things that we set out to do is really
understand better what the attitudes of the Dalin community are
and what are community is towards rural development and the
sorts of things they would like to see. So we
(03:45):
conducted some pretty substantial research with focus groups to understand
what people want, and one of the clear messages was
that people want that sort of rural lifestyle. They want
to have the room to move and grow, but they
also don't necessarily have the large blocks that people used
to the two HEC deal lots or the eight HEC
deal lots, because they do come with a lot of maintenance.
(04:05):
And so what we're trying to deliver here is something
that hasn't really been done before, hasn't been planned in
this lay before, but ultimately still gives you that perfect
mix of the more rural lifestyle, but maybe in a
more attainable way for more people.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Now, I know there's been quite a few people raising
concerns around water, you know, like how is that going
to work?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, so look, when we went through a previous process,
one of the in fact the biggest issue, I would say,
was that we're proposing to use groundwater from the aquifer.
And one of the key things that's changed now is
that you've got the strous water treatment plant project that's
up and running and Doe to bit completed next year
as part of the Mantan Dam project. So what that
(04:50):
means is we can actually can connect all of the
new lots to reticulated water instead, so there's no impact
on the aquifer, no impact on the groundwater. We're going
to be using town water connecting all the lots to it.
And that really was the biggest issue that we've faced previously.
Now that we've got a resolution to that, it opens
up the site.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So no need for bores. Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That's correct? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
All right, Well, I suppose that is something that people
have said is a concern for them. I mean, one
of the biggest concerns that we're hearing on the tech
sne and also sort of the phone lines have lit
up now, is that people are worried it's not really
going to be rural, that the blocks are going to
be smaller and they're not going to have the services needed.
I mean, what do you say to them.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, well, again, you've got to look at how the
rural area developed, and so what we're actually talking about
is returning to that sort of style of development that
you had thirty years ago in the rural area, where
you had a township and a village with the local
shops and the school and that sort of thing like
your Humpty dooes, and you had still very large blocks
relative to what you're seeing in the newer suburbs of Darwin.
(05:55):
For example, we're talking a minimum lot size that's probably
in the order of three and a half to four
times bigger than the lots of getting in areas like
Zacollie at the moment. But you're doing it in a
pattern that lets people still access those local facilities nearby.
And then as I said, you get bigger and bigger lots.
The further way you get from that infrastructure and amenity.
(06:15):
So the good thing about what we're doing by planning
in this holistic way is making sure that we've allowed
for all those things up front. It doesn't mean you'll
have a school day one, but it means you know
where the school's going to be and something we can
work towards it. It knows where your public transport routes
will be. It knows where you'll be able to have
your parks and gardens and buidiversity corridors. You'll know we've
got your open space network. All of that can be
(06:36):
designed from the outset, and then you're working within those
parameters to deliver the project over that very very long timeframe.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I mean, how many of those blocks do you sort
of have to sell though before you're in a situation
where you are able to get the you know, the
public bus network for example, to have a stop nearby.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah. Look, it's a great question, and it's going to
be an ongoing discussion that we have with the operators
with the government around when they cann new services. There
are already bus services to the site, by the way,
they probably the most frequent as everyone would like, but Obviously,
the more you have a population there that can use it,
the greater the chances you'll start to increase the frequency
of those services.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Now, someone's just messaged through Derby from the dou's message
through and said, is it going to be septic or
town sewerage? From what you were saying, it sounds like town.
I don't know if we've lost Max there, I've got you.
I'm not sure whether you heard that one. Somebody questioning
whether it's going to be septic or town sewerage.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, so the majority of this site will be able
to use septics. There's been a lot of change in
technology around how you can service either an individual site
or small groups of sites, and that's what we're looking
at at the moment. Plus, there's been some changes to
the waste toward management rules in the rural area, which
are very dependent on the type of soil conditions that
you have and the soil sort of ground conditions that
(07:58):
we have on the site themselves. To those newer rules,
so you can use a septic on a smaller lot
and perhaps what you might have been able to thirty
forty years ago.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Now we are. I mean, look, Max, there's plenty of
messages coming through people you know, wanting really to keep rural.
I guess is the most clear message I can I
can make. But what are the next steps from your
perspective in terms of you know, getting things moving?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, well, firstly, we agree we're trying to keep real
rule and some people are sort of imagining that you're
going to have four thousand homes built there overnight, Like
that's absolutely not the case. They said, we're talking talking
through to forty years for this project to roll out,
and just imagine what the rural area looks like thirty
years ago and da, and it's the same sort of approach.
You just got to think a bit longer term, which
(08:44):
is the sort of way we're approaching the site. Both procedurally,
the area plan is out for public comment at the moment.
The exhibition period ends on the sixteenth of Mates. People
should have a look online and put their submissions in.
If the area Plan is approved, then that gives us
the ability to then start making the more detailed planning applications,
and that's when they get into the nitty gritty about
(09:07):
specific infrastructure, timing, lot size, and that goes to a
normal develop the content process.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
All right, Well, Max, we are going to have to
leave it there. Max Shifman, the CEO, of course of Intrapak,
who is looking at this development. Thank you very much
for your time. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
My pleasure.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Thank you,
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com