Labor Opposition Leader Selena Uibo says dining at restaurants and attending medical appointments were among the seven personal trips she used the government white car service for over a 12-month period adding that she has never had a driver wait for her

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We know that. News emerged on Friday that the Northern
Territory opposition leader had miss used the White chauffeur car
service for personal use, attending multiple social events and medical appointments.
Selena Ubo forced to out herself after the ABC FOI
documents and uncovered that she'd used the white car service
for personal use attending multiple social events and medical appointments.

(00:25):
Now FOI documents detailed well every VIP trip between February
and March this year. The travelogue show that Misubo used
the VIP service sixty five times. Seven of those times
she missus the service. Now, Selena Ubo, the opposition leader,
joins me in the studio. Good morning to you, Selena.
Thanks so much for your time now, Selena. According to

(00:47):
the ABC, these trips include personal trips to restaurants and
a medical center. Some destinations are redacted. Can you outline
what you use the chauffeur service for in terms of
miss use?

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, Katie.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
I had the opportunity on Friday, after returning from leave
to review some of the travel that was requested through
the FI process from the ABC. I had a look
at further than that, I had to look at the
twelve months I've been the leader of the Opposition, and
there were seven trips that were predominantly personal use, so

(01:23):
the leaving work and going to eat on the way
back from Parliament, a medical appointment, as you've mentioned. So
I wanted to be very upfront with Territorians that I
understand this is unacceptable. I do want to hold myself
to account. I want to show that I've had the
responsibility and I do apologize for blurring the lines between
the professional use of the car which you mentioned. You know,

(01:44):
sixty five times in two months, five times that were
personally in that period of time. So seven was over
the twelve month period, so there was one in December
and one in January as well, Katie.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
So I did review those twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Months, so doctor's appointments were flagged as the reason for
using that service for your personal issue. Then just touched
on as well going to restaurants after work, So you
were in a situation where what you were leaving Parliament house,
going home or going you know presumably usually get dropped home,
but instead of being dropped home, being dropped to a restaurant.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, So for example, on the twenty fifth.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
Of March, this year. That happened to be my fortieth birthday, Katie.
We finished parliament at nine pm. I went to a
restaurant here in Darwin. I would normally get dropped straight
back to my accommodation, which is twenty minutes out of town.
I had a meal there and then continued on half
an hour later.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
So did you make the driver wait outside while you ate?

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Drivers go back to the base, which is the parliament
So if there's any other jobs, they take those jobs.
And I was able to call the driver if they're available.
They said, yeah, we'll come and pick you up and
then they drop me back to my accommodation.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Insiders have told me that you did use the service
on at least one occasion to go to dinner at
a re staunt in the city and have the driver
wait outside. Know is that the case?

Speaker 3 (03:04):
No, No, what's been reported in the anti independence incorrect
for that.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
I've actually I've had somebody else say it to us,
So not the case.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Drivers have not waited out the front.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
They if it's here in the city the time that
I've mentioned, they'll always go back to the parliamentary base.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Do you think it's appropriate to use that service for
them to take you to private medical appointments or to
take you to a restaurant for dinner.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
No, that's why I've looked at what my movements have
been and there's not always points of reflection unfortunately, Katie.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
And politics, this is definitely you have one of those points.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Have been in politics for a long time though, Selena,
this is not a new game for you. So I mean,
I guess what I'm getting to is can people be
confident that you haven't misused that service while you're a minister.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
So the example about the medical appointment, Katie on the
seventeenth of March, It's Monday before the Parliament sittings. Fortnite,
usually a very heavy day. It was a ten hour day.
There were no gaps in my diary whatsoever. But I
did have a twenty minute special appointment which required travel
and unfortunately I did use the white car for that,

(04:12):
which is one of the trips I have paid back.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
So again though I will ask.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
You and I as well, Katie, that was from parliament
returning to Parliament, so in between the workday.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
I just want to be clear about that, all right.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
So you've looked at in the last twelve months since
you've been opposition later, have you gone back through when
you're a minister and seen whether you've misused the service
in any time as a minister.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
I haven't gone back and looked at my ministerial movements Katie.
That was obviously, you know, six year period I was
a minister. But I can say that I would have
been some medical appointments. I did have four pregnancies when
I was a minister, and I would have been attending
some appointments during work hours as well.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
So medical appointments. Look, I don't know that anybody would
begrudge you attending.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
I do want to just be very open and honest
about So in.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
That case when you were a minister, were there any
situations where you were then requiring that that driver to
drop you out to dinner or to drop you to
birthday celebrations or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
No, the birthday celebrations was was only that week of
my fortieth birthday, which was in March this year, Katie.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
So you're confident that you never miss use the service
as a minister.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
I think the benacal appointments were the main personal use,
and that, unfortunately, I think also was when I was
a minister.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
I've got to tell you, you don't sound real confident
about it.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
Or I don't have anything in front of me. So again,
I want to be verytable. Well, I want to be
very upfront and accountable. If I'm talking about the six
years I was a minister, I want to be able
to provide that information to people.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
I guess what I'm getting to, and it's the same
questions that I was getting to with Joe Hersey yesterday
is can people trust that you haven't been miss using
this service for years?

Speaker 3 (05:54):
Well, that's why I'm being upfront about the review that
I've done.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Since cfl I requires came out.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
You are, but there's also the opportunity to I mean,
I think you know Joe Hersey spoke about it. If
we're speaking about the efficiency of being in a role
like this, in a role as a minister, obviously the
speaker is also covered through this process, what's the efficient
use of time and unfortunately leaving work and then going
to something personal. Unfortunately, that's what I've done. I've have

(06:23):
blurred those lines. You know, I've heard that there may
be people who have dropped off their children in a
white car and then gone to work. Is that acceptable
by the public. I don't know, So that's the questions. Well,
but there is gen.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
For you currently. Did you misuse the service when you're
a minister, Because you know, what I'm trying to get
at is can people trust you? You're the leader of
the opposition. Can they trust you?

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Katie?

Speaker 3 (06:47):
I want to restore the trust for territories in the
work that I do. We met as a caucus to
discuss that the action that I've taken in front footing
what is unaccept in Territorian's eyes. I've had, you know,
that time, the very short time, an opportunity to be
able to look at that twelve months to be upfront

(07:08):
with Territorians about my movements. And I have repaid back
that six hundred and fifty five dollars, so it's paid
back now. It was paid back on Friday. I had
the invoice received and I paid it back within an hour.
And to show Territorians that I don't want any cloud
of doubt or judgments on my leadership and my job
is to hold the government to account.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
That I can hold myself to account. So do you
think there.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
Needs to be now review of the way in which
this service issues not just I mean, I know you
said you're not going to use it anymore, but in
terms of the opposition leader, the Speaker, the government, the
way in which it is able to be used in
some really clear guidelines about what's acceptable and what's not.
Because I know that under the former government there was
a cabinet handbook was my understanding, where it was pretty

(07:52):
clear what you were and weren't supposed to do, which
is why I guess I'm so surprised that you've misused.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, I understand that the government is currently under way
with a review and a policy around the use of that.
I believe there was a draft in July around clarity
around the use. So I'll wait for that and whatever
the policy that the government chooses to endorse, that'll obviously
be what gets put in place. But my caucus team

(08:21):
and I have said, because we don't want to have
any doubt on my work as the leader of the
opposition and holding the government to account, that I won't
use the white car for the next three years.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Do you really need to go that far? I mean,
that makes it sound like you don't trust yourself.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah, it's not a matter of trust again, it's about
perception if people see me in a white car and
think where is she gone to? Where is she going to?
Where she come from? I don't want that to be
in people's minds, Katie. I want them to know that
I am there for the job, that I'm being privileged
and honored to be able to represent territories in as
the leader of the opposition, and that's my focus.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Do you still have the confidence of your caucus colleagues
but also of members of the Labor Party.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
Yes, I still have the confidence of my caucus team,
which is why we met last week. I was still
on leave at the time and spoke openly with my team.
They do support me, they want me to continue to
be the leader, but we wanted to show there's a
point of difference with our territory Labor team. I am
a new leader of the party. Want to show that
there is a consequence for my action, whether it's too

(09:23):
harsh or not. I mean that I'll leave that for
people to judge.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Well, I wanted to.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Make I mean, some people think you should step down
as the opposition leader. What do you say to that?

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah, I have read comments people saying that, but again,
you know, if you make a mistake and you own
up to it. You make reprimands to excuse me, reparations
to repay that mistake. I feel like I've done that.
I want the people to know that I've done that
because I am apologetic for what I've done and I
don't expect that standard in myself, and I'm very disappointed

(09:53):
at my actions.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Are you confident that you can regain the trust of territories?

Speaker 3 (09:57):
I am confident. I want to show that I working
hard every day for territorians. I represent a really amazing
election with the Animal electure, and I want to continue
to show my constituents I can represent them and the
honor and privilege I have as the leader of opposition
here in the NT and represent the labor values that
we have.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Well. One of the points that was made yesterday because
obviously we spoke to Joe Hersey about this yesterday as well,
and she'd revealed that she'd misuse that car service on
at least one occasion. Now the ABC's also IFO Wied
are also taking a look at some of her trips
as well. Some of them may be questionable, same as yours.
You know where we're now kind of everybody's going, all right, well,
what needs to be the guidelines here to make sure

(10:35):
that they're not being misused? Just putting that aside for
a moment. She'd also said that you know, you can
indeed get a higher car, and she argued that that's
more expensive than using the white cars to the taxpayer.
But I also did a bit of investigating myself. I mean,
you guys get four hundred dollars a day in travel
allowance when you're.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Here, don't you, Yes, we do.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
That's a heck of a lot of money on top
of everyday salary. And I get it right. I worked
for a bush minister many years ago. I understand that
it is a really tough juggle when you're coming in
from the bush. But do you acknowledge that you know,
you guys have taken the piece a little bit here.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
It's not taking the piece, Katie.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
It is showing that there are different demands on this
role as a member of Parliament, let alone the extra
responsibility if you're a Minister of the Speaker, leader of
the Opposition, and that the time demands do require sometimes
that focus on efficiencies. So you know, the travel does
every single minute that you have with people really matters.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Really counts if you're late for something.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Obviously I was a couple of minutes late for this interview,
but if you're late for a meeting and an event,
that cuts down the time and the ability for people
to be able to speak with you directly, provide feedback,
provide complaints, whatever it is people want to bring up
with the MLAs, and that's really important.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
That's what our job is, is to be face to
face with people.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Well, I agree, and this is where I think even
banning yourself from using the white cars, I mean, you
do need to get to places in a timely fashion.
No one would begrudge you using a white car to
get here to the radio station, being dropped off and
then going back to Parliament House. But this is where
I think it needs to be made really clear because
the last thing that Territorians want is to feel as

(12:15):
though you know they're being taken advantage of. So I
think it needs to.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
Get understand and definitely respect that, which is why I
wanted to apologize the Territorians. It's not the standard I
hold for myself, Katie. I have made a mistake. Unfortunately,
I'm human, I'm not perfect. I want to show that
I have taken the steps to show that I am
apologetic for that and that I have made amends of
those actions. I can't undo those actions, but I do

(12:38):
want to move forward to show territorians I will continue
to work hard for them.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Oh positionally to really quick one. Some of our listeners
have ours to hear your views this morning on the
government's announcement yesterday that from today term four, parents who
consistently failed to send their children to school are going
to be referred for income management, making sure that taxpayer
funded support is used in the best interests of children.

(13:02):
Do you support this move?

Speaker 2 (13:04):
I don't, Katie.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
I think it's an unfortunate, recycled old policy from you know,
over ten years ago, where there's been punitive measures put
in place. Absolutely agree there has to be accountability. There
needs to be focus work on making sure all of
our kids, no matter where they are, do go to school,
do get that opportunity for equality education, and that our
staff and our schools are supported to do that.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
I mean taking that into account. Is it time to
maybe look at having a bit more of a bipartisan
approach here. I know it may go against what you
have previously seen as sort of being the way to go,
but is it time for us to try something new?

Speaker 3 (13:39):
Well, education has always been a core value of our
Labor team, and you know, the door's always open and
we're very keen to be able to support and be constructive,
as I've said from the start of my leadership role.
So if that is something that the government would like
to do, we're very keen to.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Be able to offer that support.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
Last year, you know, we signed off on a billion
deal to make sure that every single Northern Territory public
school was fully resourced. So I mean that took seven
years for us to secure that deal as the former
Labor government. If there's anything to do in terms of
constructive way of working across the parliament, across the bipartisan
lines when it comes to education with kids, it's too

(14:18):
important to be political about. Absolutely have the door open
for that. Don't agree with the punitive measures. I think
there are better ways to be able to support families
and cares to get kids to school, and particularly when
we talk about income management, I think that's punishing families
who are already struggling.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
Opposition lyder Selina, you bo, we will leave it there,
thank you very much. For your time this morning.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Thank you Katie,