Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, as we know. In August last year, an expert
panel recommended that the Northern Territory should legislate for voluntary
assisted dying. As we discussed on the show yesterday, the
Territory was the first jurisdiction in the world to legislate
it almost thirty years ago, but now we're the only
jurisdiction in Australia where it is still not legal. Yesterday
(00:21):
in Parliament, the Independent Member for Johnston, Justine Davis, was
set to move a motion calling on the Northern Territory
government to implement the twenty two recommendations of the independent
Expert Advisory Panel on voluntary assisted dying. But what we
now know is the Attorney General says that she's now
written to doctor Tansil Raman, who's the Member for fong
(00:43):
Lim in his capacity as the chair of the Legal
and Constitutional Affairs Committee, requesting that the LCAC undertaken inquiry
into the voluntary assisted dying in the Northern Territory final
Report for twenty twenty four. Now, the Member four Johnstone,
Justine Davis, joins me on the show. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Justine, Hey Katie, how are you going?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Really good? Good to have you on the show. Now,
you were set to move this motion on voluntary assisted
dying yesterday, but what happened.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, I was set to move it, and then at
a very late late point in the piece, the Attorney General,
as you said, put out a media release saying that
she would be referring it to that committee in order
to progress it, which I actually think is great news.
I'm really happy that's happened. I welcome it for people.
(01:35):
So many people, as you know, I know you've talked
about this a lot, many people took on your show
to share from code and many other people have been
such strong advocates for this, fighting for a very very
long time. The motion that I'd put up was certainly
stronger than the what the corp what's now been passed
(01:55):
before the House. It was a commitment to implementing VAD
in the Northern Territory. So we're not quite there yet,
but we're certainly a step closer, and so I welcome that.
I think that I know there are people who've contacted
me who are concerned that we don't need more consultation.
We've been through a very robust process. We don't need
(02:16):
to slow it down. I'm of the view that if
people still hold really significant concerns, it's good to listen
to those views and then develop the law and make
sure that they're taking into accounts so we can bring
the whole Northern Territory with us. We know that eighty
five percent of people support it, let's listen to the
other fifteen percent as well and make sure that they
feel heard and then they can come on board with
(02:38):
the bill.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, Justine, we definitely had people contact us yesterday saying
Katie Moore consultation, why is that required when we actually
had a full report last year. But then we also
received a media statement from Nicholas Leigh, the NT, director
of the Australian Christian Lobby Group, issuing a statement saying
we oppose any attempt to legalize assisted suicide they've called
(03:03):
it in the Northern Territory, though we welcome another opportunity
to consult on the matter, as the consultation done in
twenty twenty three, he says was a sham. He said
in twenty twenty three, the government appointed an expert advisory
panel to guide its approach to implementing assisted suicide. However,
the Australian Christian Lobby Group labeled the process a sham
(03:27):
after community voices opposing assisted suicide were explicitly excluded from consideration. Justine,
what do you make of that claim?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, I mean Nicholas Slays welcome to have his view,
and that's why we live in a democracy. That's why
you know we are, you know why. I think there
will be room for voices to be heard. But it's
one view that's certainly not what in terms of his
assessment of what happened around the previous consultation process that
I wasn't involved in that, but that's certainly not what
(04:01):
I've heard from many many people that I've spoken to
in relation to it, including people I have people in
my community who have serious concerns about this legislation, but
they say they also see that as a robust process,
So I think, and I think in terms of the
statement from the Australian Christian League, one of the things
(04:25):
that I'm really pleased about in this motion is it
actually does commit some action. So it says that that
committee needs to come back with instructions of how to
draft legislation by September this year, so we now have
a time frame earlier we heard and I think you
and I have discussed this before. Last year we heard
(04:45):
the Chief Minutes of saying this is not a priority
for us. Now there is a clear commitment in place
to that the government will be looking at how this
can happen.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Well, look, the big thing for me, I mean, at
the end of the day, this is voluntary. Like the
first word in this whole statement is voluntary. And I've
said this on air before. You know, my dad went
through palliative care and died after a battle with cancer.
He was raised very much a Catholic and he would
not have gone down this path, but it was his choice.
(05:20):
And I think that that's the really important thing, is
that everybody should have a choice whether you choose to
go down that path or not. If you are somebody
who is battling a terminal illness, surely at the end
of the day it should be your choice. I mean,
we have seen this legislation pass right around Australia. The
concern that I've got is that what we're going to
(05:42):
see is it goes to this committee and that it
doesn't sort of go any further. But from what you
are saying, they've made a commitment that as of September
there will be some legislation drafted to move it forward.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
In the motion is that that committee will do consultation
and then if they believe based on that that there
should be legislations, they'll give drafting instructions. They'll come back
to Parliament with drafting instructions. From my perspective, actually that's
really great. You and I had talked before about the
fact that if the government had said we're not going
to look at this, there would be no government resources
(06:20):
to assist this with drafting legislation, which makes it really
tough for an independent like me who doesn't have any
resources to do it. This means there will be government
resources going into it, so it's not going to be quick.
And I mean, I want to talk there are so
many people who've talked to me who are at the
end of their life who do wish that they could,
you know, desperately wish this is something that that could
(06:43):
access here and are fighting really hard for it, knowing
that it'll be too late for them, but wanting to
make sure that'll be there for other people. So we
do need to as you say, it's not something we
can keep delaying. We do need to make sure that
the government knows and this committee knows that this is
something that the community wants. That exactly is you say,
(07:04):
it's a voluntary thing. It's a piece of law that
we can develop that can address all the concerns that
people have. We can build on what's happened all across Australia.
We were the first place to have it now in
the world. Now we're the last place in Australia, but
we can benefit from that in terms of looking at
what's happened in other places and taking the best of
(07:27):
it and making sure that it's appropriate for our very
unique circumstances here in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, really good point, Justine. I also want to ask you,
I understand your moved emotion yesterday calling on the Northern
Territory Parliament to take action to improve honesty, transparency and
accountability in government. What specifically are you calling for?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, A few things. So people will know that there's
been ongoing concerns about accusations of corruption nepotism throughout the
public service in non Territory. Many people have talked to
me about this. So what I have called for is that, well,
a series of things. So first of all, that there's
(08:10):
a very clear government commitment to reinforcing the importance of
integrity and acknowledging those concerns in the public. To recognize
that some of the institutions that we have at the
moment aren't able to do their job as well as
they can. For example, IKAK and some suggestions about what
we could do to actually strengthen iye, tack and make
(08:32):
it do its job in a way that's going to
be more effective for the territory. Introduce a very clear
code of conduct for not just public servants, which we have,
but also for public sector institutions which we don't have.
Making the lobbyist register. So the LP has introduced a
lobbyist register, but it's pretty weak, to be honest, and
(08:55):
there are things that we could certainly strengthen in it,
for example, having ministerial diaries be open so people can
actually see who ministers a meeting with and when it's
a good idea. Okay, I mean a good idea.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, yeah, I mean none of this is very very complicated,
Like it's really about trying to make sure that at
the end of the day, the public service and our
elected representatives are doing their job, doing it with integrity,
doing it with accountability, that there's transparency and that the
community can trust that they're doing it for them and
not for anything else.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Justin we know the NTICA Commissioner, Michael Richards has resigned,
which is effective as of today. It comes after an
investigation by the Office of Public Employment. The government said
it remains committed to the Northern Territory ICAC, allocating that
six point six million dollars to the agency in the budget.
But what changes do you think could happen when it
(09:53):
comes to the IKAC to make it more effective?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think the ICAQ is because in
such a small jurisdiction, having an iq here does present
problems in terms conflict of interest, and we've talked about
that before, so I think looking at how the IKAC
can be structured to address that conflict of interest. I
think one of the ongoing frustrations with the IQAQ here
is that it doesn't seem to have power to actually
(10:19):
do anything that. You know, it may do investigations, but
then what happens And you know in some other jurisdictions
that their commissions, similar commissions have more power and can
do can actually do things about the investigations that they've
taken up. I mean, I think the looking at whether
(10:39):
the IKA actually has the appropriate resources to do what
they need to do. It's really good news that we're
no longer paying for two KA commissioners. That was ridiculously Yeah. Yeah,
and so I'm very glad that that's finally resolved. We
(11:00):
need to put things in place to make sure that
we're not in that kind of situation again. So I mean,
I think if we look at IACH similar institutions across Australia,
you know, our model is from my perspective, our model
is pretty good, but there are certainly things that we
could do to strengthen it. And I think there's also
a lack of community trust and confidence in the IKAQ
(11:21):
and so we need to look at that and look
at what we can do to address that.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah. Well, Justain Davis, it's always good to catch up
with you. Sounds like you've been busy, busy in parliament
and we'll continue to be.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
We have been busy. The other thing I just want
to say, the other thing that was great that happened
yesterday as well as VAD moving forward, is that the
Parliament's passed a motion to properly investigate an alleged fifty
million dollars that were stolen through the Indigenous Employment Provisional SUM.
So that was a program set up to assist to
(11:53):
support buses, building industry employee Aboriginal workers. There was a lot.
It was closed. It was set up by BP, closed
down by labor after there were allegations of fraud between
fifty and one hundred million dollars. It's unclear. I've been
calling for an investigation into that for a long time.
It's taxpayers money. If that money has been stolen, it
(12:14):
should come back. Yeah, and that's now been referred to
the Public Accounts Committee to look at how what we
can do to get that money back and make sure
those things don't happen again. So there were two things
yesterday in Parliament that happened that I was really happy
to be part of.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Well, that is good to hear. Justin Davis. Always good
to catch up with you. Thank you so much for
your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Thanks Katie too, Thank you
Well, as we know. In August last year, an expert
panel recommended that the Northern Territory should legislate for voluntary
assisted dying. As we discussed on the show yesterday, the
Territory was the first jurisdiction in the world to legislate
it almost thirty years ago, but now we're the only
jurisdiction in Australia where it is still not legal. Yesterday
(00:21):
in Parliament, the Independent Member for Johnston, Justine Davis, was
set to move a motion calling on the Northern Territory
government to implement the twenty two recommendations of the independent
Expert Advisory Panel on voluntary assisted dying. But what we
now know is the Attorney General says that she's now
written to doctor Tansil Raman, who's the Member for fong
(00:43):
Lim in his capacity as the chair of the Legal
and Constitutional Affairs Committee, requesting that the LCAC undertaken inquiry
into the voluntary assisted dying in the Northern Territory final
Report for twenty twenty four. Now, the Member four Johnstone,
Justine Davis, joins me on the show. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Justine, Hey Katie, how are you going?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Really good? Good to have you on the show. Now,
you were set to move this motion on voluntary assisted
dying yesterday, but what happened.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, I was set to move it, and then at
a very late late point in the piece, the Attorney General,
as you said, put out a media release saying that
she would be referring it to that committee in order
to progress it, which I actually think is great news.
I'm really happy that's happened. I welcome it for people.
(01:35):
So many people, as you know, I know you've talked
about this a lot, many people took on your show
to share from code and many other people have been
such strong advocates for this, fighting for a very very
long time. The motion that I'd put up was certainly
stronger than the what the corp what's now been passed
(01:55):
before the House. It was a commitment to implementing VAD
in the Northern Territory. So we're not quite there yet,
but we're certainly a step closer, and so I welcome that.
I think that I know there are people who've contacted
me who are concerned that we don't need more consultation.
We've been through a very robust process. We don't need
(02:16):
to slow it down. I'm of the view that if
people still hold really significant concerns, it's good to listen
to those views and then develop the law and make
sure that they're taking into accounts so we can bring
the whole Northern Territory with us. We know that eighty
five percent of people support it, let's listen to the
other fifteen percent as well and make sure that they
feel heard and then they can come on board with
(02:38):
the bill.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, Justine, we definitely had people contact us yesterday saying
Katie Moore consultation, why is that required when we actually
had a full report last year. But then we also
received a media statement from Nicholas Leigh, the NT, director
of the Australian Christian Lobby Group, issuing a statement saying
we oppose any attempt to legalize assisted suicide they've called
(03:03):
it in the Northern Territory, though we welcome another opportunity
to consult on the matter, as the consultation done in
twenty twenty three, he says was a sham. He said
in twenty twenty three, the government appointed an expert advisory
panel to guide its approach to implementing assisted suicide. However,
the Australian Christian Lobby Group labeled the process a sham
(03:27):
after community voices opposing assisted suicide were explicitly excluded from consideration. Justine,
what do you make of that claim?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Well, I mean Nicholas Slays welcome to have his view,
and that's why we live in a democracy. That's why
you know we are, you know why. I think there
will be room for voices to be heard. But it's
one view that's certainly not what in terms of his
assessment of what happened around the previous consultation process that
I wasn't involved in that, but that's certainly not what
(04:01):
I've heard from many many people that I've spoken to
in relation to it, including people I have people in
my community who have serious concerns about this legislation, but
they say they also see that as a robust process,
So I think, and I think in terms of the
statement from the Australian Christian League, one of the things
(04:25):
that I'm really pleased about in this motion is it
actually does commit some action. So it says that that
committee needs to come back with instructions of how to
draft legislation by September this year, so we now have
a time frame earlier we heard and I think you
and I have discussed this before. Last year we heard
(04:45):
the Chief Minutes of saying this is not a priority
for us. Now there is a clear commitment in place
to that the government will be looking at how this
can happen.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Well, look, the big thing for me, I mean, at
the end of the day, this is voluntary. Like the
first word in this whole statement is voluntary. And I've
said this on air before. You know, my dad went
through palliative care and died after a battle with cancer.
He was raised very much a Catholic and he would
not have gone down this path, but it was his choice.
(05:20):
And I think that that's the really important thing, is
that everybody should have a choice whether you choose to
go down that path or not. If you are somebody
who is battling a terminal illness, surely at the end
of the day it should be your choice. I mean,
we have seen this legislation pass right around Australia. The
concern that I've got is that what we're going to
(05:42):
see is it goes to this committee and that it
doesn't sort of go any further. But from what you
are saying, they've made a commitment that as of September
there will be some legislation drafted to move it forward.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
In the motion is that that committee will do consultation
and then if they believe based on that that there
should be legislations, they'll give drafting instructions. They'll come back
to Parliament with drafting instructions. From my perspective, actually that's
really great. You and I had talked before about the
fact that if the government had said we're not going
to look at this, there would be no government resources
(06:20):
to assist this with drafting legislation, which makes it really
tough for an independent like me who doesn't have any
resources to do it. This means there will be government
resources going into it, so it's not going to be quick.
And I mean, I want to talk there are so
many people who've talked to me who are at the
end of their life who do wish that they could,
you know, desperately wish this is something that that could
(06:43):
access here and are fighting really hard for it, knowing
that it'll be too late for them, but wanting to
make sure that'll be there for other people. So we
do need to as you say, it's not something we
can keep delaying. We do need to make sure that
the government knows and this committee knows that this is
something that the community wants. That exactly is you say,
(07:04):
it's a voluntary thing. It's a piece of law that
we can develop that can address all the concerns that
people have. We can build on what's happened all across Australia.
We were the first place to have it now in
the world. Now we're the last place in Australia, but
we can benefit from that in terms of looking at
what's happened in other places and taking the best of
(07:27):
it and making sure that it's appropriate for our very
unique circumstances here in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, really good point, Justine. I also want to ask you,
I understand your moved emotion yesterday calling on the Northern
Territory Parliament to take action to improve honesty, transparency and
accountability in government. What specifically are you calling for?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, A few things. So people will know that there's
been ongoing concerns about accusations of corruption nepotism throughout the
public service in non Territory. Many people have talked to
me about this. So what I have called for is that, well,
a series of things. So first of all, that there's
(08:10):
a very clear government commitment to reinforcing the importance of
integrity and acknowledging those concerns in the public. To recognize
that some of the institutions that we have at the
moment aren't able to do their job as well as
they can. For example, IKAK and some suggestions about what
we could do to actually strengthen iye, tack and make
(08:32):
it do its job in a way that's going to
be more effective for the territory. Introduce a very clear
code of conduct for not just public servants, which we have,
but also for public sector institutions which we don't have.
Making the lobbyist register. So the LP has introduced a
lobbyist register, but it's pretty weak, to be honest, and
(08:55):
there are things that we could certainly strengthen in it,
for example, having ministerial diaries be open so people can
actually see who ministers a meeting with and when it's
a good idea. Okay, I mean a good idea.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, yeah, I mean none of this is very very complicated,
Like it's really about trying to make sure that at
the end of the day, the public service and our
elected representatives are doing their job, doing it with integrity,
doing it with accountability, that there's transparency and that the
community can trust that they're doing it for them and
not for anything else.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Justin we know the NTICA Commissioner, Michael Richards has resigned,
which is effective as of today. It comes after an
investigation by the Office of Public Employment. The government said
it remains committed to the Northern Territory ICAC, allocating that
six point six million dollars to the agency in the budget.
But what changes do you think could happen when it
(09:53):
comes to the IKAC to make it more effective?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think the ICAQ is because in
such a small jurisdiction, having an iq here does present
problems in terms conflict of interest, and we've talked about
that before, so I think looking at how the IKAC
can be structured to address that conflict of interest. I
think one of the ongoing frustrations with the IQAQ here
is that it doesn't seem to have power to actually
(10:19):
do anything that. You know, it may do investigations, but
then what happens And you know in some other jurisdictions
that their commissions, similar commissions have more power and can
do can actually do things about the investigations that they've
taken up. I mean, I think the looking at whether
(10:39):
the IKA actually has the appropriate resources to do what
they need to do. It's really good news that we're
no longer paying for two KA commissioners. That was ridiculously Yeah. Yeah,
and so I'm very glad that that's finally resolved. We
(11:00):
need to put things in place to make sure that
we're not in that kind of situation again. So I mean,
I think if we look at IACH similar institutions across Australia,
you know, our model is from my perspective, our model
is pretty good, but there are certainly things that we
could do to strengthen it. And I think there's also
a lack of community trust and confidence in the IKAQ
(11:21):
and so we need to look at that and look
at what we can do to address that.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah. Well, Justain Davis, it's always good to catch up
with you. Sounds like you've been busy, busy in parliament
and we'll continue to be.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
We have been busy. The other thing I just want
to say, the other thing that was great that happened
yesterday as well as VAD moving forward, is that the
Parliament's passed a motion to properly investigate an alleged fifty
million dollars that were stolen through the Indigenous Employment Provisional SUM.
So that was a program set up to assist to
(11:53):
support buses, building industry employee Aboriginal workers. There was a lot.
It was closed. It was set up by BP, closed
down by labor after there were allegations of fraud between
fifty and one hundred million dollars. It's unclear. I've been
calling for an investigation into that for a long time.
It's taxpayers money. If that money has been stolen, it
(12:14):
should come back. Yeah, and that's now been referred to
the Public Accounts Committee to look at how what we
can do to get that money back and make sure
those things don't happen again. So there were two things
yesterday in Parliament that happened that I was really happy
to be part of.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Well, that is good to hear. Justin Davis. Always good
to catch up with you. Thank you so much for
your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Thanks Katie too, Thank you
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