Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Someone who knows the trauma of losing a loved one
to senseless crime. Is my next guest. She's advocated so
strongly since her son Declan was murdered while at worked
two years ago. It was a crime which shattered the community,
a crime we hoped that we'd never have to face again.
Joining me on the line is Samara Lavity. Good morning, Samara,
(00:22):
Good morning Katie. Samara. When did you learn what had
happened to Linford in his workplace and what was your reaction.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I was told about it probably within about ten minutes
of the actual incident occurring, and before it had sort
of hit any sort of media, and it was sorry,
it was a real sucker punch at gut punch because
(00:58):
it was just like it's happened again. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Sorry, No, Samara, don't be sorry. I can't begin to
imagine how you feel at this point in time. I mean,
one of the things that you have said to me
on so many occasions is that you just never wanted
another family to have to go through what you went through.
(01:27):
And you've advocated so strongly over the last couple of
years when so many others, quite honestly, would have fallen
in a heap, and I've no doubt that you've probably
wanted to at different times, but you've done so much
to honor your son, and you've done so much to
try and help the Northern Territory community when it comes
(01:50):
to crime.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I know, it just came back to I didn't want
anyone to ever have to go through this and that,
and I yeah, throw my words were all over the
places of.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Samara. You took to social media on the weekend and you,
you know, just seemed like you were angry. And I
don't doubt that you were. When you learned that the
alleged murderer was on bail for previous violent offending.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
It was it just yeah, it made me absolutely furious.
And when I found out what those offenses were, and
then subsequently found out that it was an extension of bail,
it's just like you're letting these people out. You know,
(02:47):
somebody who had aggravated assault, rape, sexual intercourse with a child.
This is not you know, someone who's just gone and
stolen a couple of chocolate bars. This is someone who
has done and straight at a significant pattern of dangerous
and violent behavior. And by allowing him out, whether or
(03:10):
not you know, how do you foresee something like this,
But it's to read further serious offenses based on that
pattern of behavior. And again it's somebody who doesn't want
to be told no, and this is what's happened.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And Samaraw of course I will point out, as I
know you did in your video and social media on
the weekend, as I've done on numerous occasions this morning,
we know that it is all alleged offending. It's frustrating,
but they are the words that we have to use.
I meant, yeah, you had said over the weekend that
you know that you you thought that whoever had granted
(03:53):
this person bail should stand down from their role.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Absolutely, and I still stand by that. And I also
acknowledge that I don't know a lot of what happened
behind the scenes, or the legalities or any of that
sort of scene. But come back to if, like I've
spent my entire adult life as a paramedic, if I
took action on a scene where that person ended up
(04:24):
dying for whatever reason that was a reasonablief for seeing
consequence of what I did, I'd have lost my job
there on the spot. These people need to be held
to some degree of accountability. I guess it's just luck
(04:44):
that it hasn't happened again in the last two years,
up until last Wednesday. But you know, if almost any
other job role, if that was you know, the consequence,
then somebody died, people will be asking questions.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And it just like you know, if I do the
wrong thing on air, there's questions asked, and there's certainly,
you know, consequences to it. And and I feel as
though that is what territorians are expecting, that they're you know,
that they're at the very least a question is being
asked as to how somebody accused of incredibly violent offenses
(05:26):
can then be on bail to allegedly commit further crimes.
It's it's beyond frustrating. It's you know, it feels like
it's reaching a point where the system is aimed at
helping offenders rather than keeping the community safe.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Absolutely, and I keep coming back to just the fact
that this was such a serious set of circumstances that
he was on bail for I have been told him.
I'm not one hundred percent sure how correct it is,
but that initial bail was granted before the inception of
(06:06):
Jethleen's Law, bail portion starting, but when you're reviewing bail
for something like that, it's you know, but I guess
then over and above that, you've got to balance that
with the presumption of innocitt until proven guilty. And that's
where I think it becomes a very big juggling actor.
And it isn't a position I'd like to be in
(06:29):
having to make those decisions, but it is their position
and it is their jobs. But they definitely seem to be,
you know, putting the welfare of the community first, and
we've seen that on so many occasions with the two
domestic violence murders that happened at the start of the year,
(06:51):
all of the recent assaults that we've seen in Our
Springs and Catherine and Antennant Creek, almost all of those
were offenders on bail, but they were on bail prior
to the inception of the bail portion of Declan's law.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So, Samara, I mean, how are you like in terms
of the changes that the Northern Territory government has made.
I mean, are you feeling at this point that the
government could have done more or are you feeling as
though we're being let down through the courts. What's your observation.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Oh, I've seen the work that went into and having
been part of the work that went into the changes
of Declin's Law, there has been a huge amount of
work and a huge amount of support on that side.
But you can have all the laws in the world
and they're useless if the judges don't apply them to
the real world situations. And that's what it's going to
(07:51):
come back to is they have to apply it and
consider the safety of people before they consider the rights
of the offender.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
In terms of what the Chief Minister's announced on well,
she spoke to us on the show just a short
time ago, but she has said that with you know,
Parliament being recalled on Wednesday, that she has directed the
Attorney General's Department to urgently draft this legislation to strengthen
Declan's Law with additional changes to the Bail Act. So
(08:20):
what it's going to mean is that for all serious offenses,
the courts will only be able to consider bail where
they're satisfied that there is no further risk to the community.
Do you think that that is a good move.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I think it's a great move. Whether or not it
should have been put in first is a bit of
you know, the chicken or the egg. In retrospect, maybe
we should have added that in. But I also feel
now that you know, we've had for what four months
of Jephon's law, and to see how the judiciary has
(08:57):
responded to that, there still seems to be a fair
amount of pushback. So now we have to strengthen that
a little bit more to make sure that they truly
understand that this is behavior that cannot keep being allowed
to occur, and that's being allowed to occur. I mean,
(09:19):
it's exceedingly multifaceted all the way along from you know,
before you know these offenders commit these crimes, to whether
or not they should be rehabbed, to whether or not
they should be out. But the reality is that until
those changes come through, we need to be safe as
a community. And if that means that somebody who's been
(09:41):
on bail for aggravated assault, deprivation of liberty, rape, then
you know, I'm sorry put them away because I want
my children and my friends and my family to be
able to go to the shops and come home in
one piece. And it just doesn't it seem like the
judiciary really care about the general public. And I don't
(10:07):
understand why. And if they don't, then I guess we
need to keep pushing those lines of defense for one
of a better term, into making sure that we do
what we can to keep people safe to be able
to go to work, to be able to go to
the shops, you know, to be able to go and
(10:29):
live their own life in safety.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Samara, I really appreciate your time. I always appreciate your
time when you come on and speak to us. I
know it is not an easy thing for you to
relive the trauma that you and your family have gone through.
I know that you know that what has happened over
the recent days and what happened to Linford. I can
(10:53):
hear it in your voice that it has hit you hard,
and and you know it's I think it's it's hit
the whole community so hard once again.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
It has.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, I'm very I'm always very grateful for you coming
on and speaking when I know it is difficult.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
For you to do. No, that's okay, okay, but yeah,
it has. It's set off for anxiety, and it's nightmares
and it's flashbacks. But it's because it's set those off
that I keep pushing forward because I don't want anyone
else to have to feel it. And unfortunately, because somebody
has let them down, another family is going through this
(11:35):
and that just absolutely breaks my heart. It shouldn't be happening.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Samara Lavity, thank you so very much for your time
this morning.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Thank you, Katie, I appreciate it.
Someone who knows the trauma of losing a loved one
to senseless crime. Is my next guest. She's advocated so
strongly since her son Declan was murdered while at worked
two years ago. It was a crime which shattered the community,
a crime we hoped that we'd never have to face again.
Joining me on the line is Samara Lavity. Good morning, Samara,
(00:22):
Good morning Katie. Samara. When did you learn what had
happened to Linford in his workplace and what was your reaction.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I was told about it probably within about ten minutes
of the actual incident occurring, and before it had sort
of hit any sort of media, and it was sorry,
it was a real sucker punch at gut punch because
(00:58):
it was just like it's happened again. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Sorry, No, Samara, don't be sorry. I can't begin to
imagine how you feel at this point in time. I mean,
one of the things that you have said to me
on so many occasions is that you just never wanted
another family to have to go through what you went through.
(01:27):
And you've advocated so strongly over the last couple of
years when so many others, quite honestly, would have fallen
in a heap, and I've no doubt that you've probably
wanted to at different times, but you've done so much
to honor your son, and you've done so much to
try and help the Northern Territory community when it comes
(01:50):
to crime.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I know, it just came back to I didn't want
anyone to ever have to go through this and that,
and I yeah, throw my words were all over the
places of.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Samara. You took to social media on the weekend and you,
you know, just seemed like you were angry. And I
don't doubt that you were. When you learned that the
alleged murderer was on bail for previous violent offending.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
It was it just yeah, it made me absolutely furious.
And when I found out what those offenses were, and
then subsequently found out that it was an extension of bail,
it's just like you're letting these people out. You know,
(02:47):
somebody who had aggravated assault, rape, sexual intercourse with a child.
This is not you know, someone who's just gone and
stolen a couple of chocolate bars. This is someone who
has done and straight at a significant pattern of dangerous
and violent behavior. And by allowing him out, whether or
(03:10):
not you know, how do you foresee something like this,
But it's to read further serious offenses based on that
pattern of behavior. And again it's somebody who doesn't want
to be told no, and this is what's happened.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And Samaraw of course I will point out, as I
know you did in your video and social media on
the weekend, as I've done on numerous occasions this morning,
we know that it is all alleged offending. It's frustrating,
but they are the words that we have to use.
I meant, yeah, you had said over the weekend that
you know that you you thought that whoever had granted
(03:53):
this person bail should stand down from their role.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Absolutely, and I still stand by that. And I also
acknowledge that I don't know a lot of what happened
behind the scenes, or the legalities or any of that
sort of scene. But come back to if, like I've
spent my entire adult life as a paramedic, if I
took action on a scene where that person ended up
(04:24):
dying for whatever reason that was a reasonablief for seeing
consequence of what I did, I'd have lost my job
there on the spot. These people need to be held
to some degree of accountability. I guess it's just luck
(04:44):
that it hasn't happened again in the last two years,
up until last Wednesday. But you know, if almost any
other job role, if that was you know, the consequence,
then somebody died, people will be asking questions.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And it just like you know, if I do the
wrong thing on air, there's questions asked, and there's certainly,
you know, consequences to it. And and I feel as
though that is what territorians are expecting, that they're you know,
that they're at the very least a question is being
asked as to how somebody accused of incredibly violent offenses
(05:26):
can then be on bail to allegedly commit further crimes.
It's it's beyond frustrating. It's you know, it feels like
it's reaching a point where the system is aimed at
helping offenders rather than keeping the community safe.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Absolutely, and I keep coming back to just the fact
that this was such a serious set of circumstances that
he was on bail for I have been told him.
I'm not one hundred percent sure how correct it is,
but that initial bail was granted before the inception of
(06:06):
Jethleen's Law, bail portion starting, but when you're reviewing bail
for something like that, it's you know, but I guess
then over and above that, you've got to balance that
with the presumption of innocitt until proven guilty. And that's
where I think it becomes a very big juggling actor.
And it isn't a position I'd like to be in
(06:29):
having to make those decisions, but it is their position
and it is their jobs. But they definitely seem to be,
you know, putting the welfare of the community first, and
we've seen that on so many occasions with the two
domestic violence murders that happened at the start of the year,
(06:51):
all of the recent assaults that we've seen in Our
Springs and Catherine and Antennant Creek, almost all of those
were offenders on bail, but they were on bail prior
to the inception of the bail portion of Declan's law.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So, Samara, I mean, how are you like in terms
of the changes that the Northern Territory government has made.
I mean, are you feeling at this point that the
government could have done more or are you feeling as
though we're being let down through the courts. What's your observation.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Oh, I've seen the work that went into and having
been part of the work that went into the changes
of Declin's Law, there has been a huge amount of
work and a huge amount of support on that side.
But you can have all the laws in the world
and they're useless if the judges don't apply them to
the real world situations. And that's what it's going to
(07:51):
come back to is they have to apply it and
consider the safety of people before they consider the rights
of the offender.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
In terms of what the Chief Minister's announced on well,
she spoke to us on the show just a short
time ago, but she has said that with you know,
Parliament being recalled on Wednesday, that she has directed the
Attorney General's Department to urgently draft this legislation to strengthen
Declan's Law with additional changes to the Bail Act. So
(08:20):
what it's going to mean is that for all serious offenses,
the courts will only be able to consider bail where
they're satisfied that there is no further risk to the community.
Do you think that that is a good move.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I think it's a great move. Whether or not it
should have been put in first is a bit of
you know, the chicken or the egg. In retrospect, maybe
we should have added that in. But I also feel
now that you know, we've had for what four months
of Jephon's law, and to see how the judiciary has
(08:57):
responded to that, there still seems to be a fair
amount of pushback. So now we have to strengthen that
a little bit more to make sure that they truly
understand that this is behavior that cannot keep being allowed
to occur, and that's being allowed to occur. I mean,
(09:19):
it's exceedingly multifaceted all the way along from you know,
before you know these offenders commit these crimes, to whether
or not they should be rehabbed, to whether or not
they should be out. But the reality is that until
those changes come through, we need to be safe as
a community. And if that means that somebody who's been
(09:41):
on bail for aggravated assault, deprivation of liberty, rape, then
you know, I'm sorry put them away because I want
my children and my friends and my family to be
able to go to the shops and come home in
one piece. And it just doesn't it seem like the
judiciary really care about the general public. And I don't
(10:07):
understand why. And if they don't, then I guess we
need to keep pushing those lines of defense for one
of a better term, into making sure that we do
what we can to keep people safe to be able
to go to work, to be able to go to
the shops, you know, to be able to go and
(10:29):
live their own life in safety.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Samara, I really appreciate your time. I always appreciate your
time when you come on and speak to us. I
know it is not an easy thing for you to
relive the trauma that you and your family have gone through.
I know that you know that what has happened over
the recent days and what happened to Linford. I can
(10:53):
hear it in your voice that it has hit you hard,
and and you know it's I think it's it's hit
the whole community so hard once again.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
It has.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, I'm very I'm always very grateful for you coming
on and speaking when I know it is difficult.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
For you to do. No, that's okay, okay, but yeah,
it has. It's set off for anxiety, and it's nightmares
and it's flashbacks. But it's because it's set those off
that I keep pushing forward because I don't want anyone
else to have to feel it. And unfortunately, because somebody
has let them down, another family is going through this
(11:35):
and that just absolutely breaks my heart. It shouldn't be happening.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Samara Lavity, thank you so very much for your time
this morning.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Thank you, Katie, I appreciate it.
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