Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now it's a busy morning in here.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It always is eight nine one four nine if you'd
like to call through. Now. We've spoken at length over
the last couple of days about the government's plans to
expand the number of beds that we've got in Northern
Territory prisons. Now it is a bold plan which will
initially see an additional one thousand beds and it's then
going to see that number increase to three thousand long term.
(00:23):
The man tasked with managing the Northern Territory's correctional facilities
is Commissioner Matthew Varley, and he joins me in the
studio right now.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Good morning to your commissioner. Good morning Katie, thanks so
much for your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Now, Commissioner, how many prisoners are currently in our correctional facilities?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
A lot, Katie, is the short answer. Today. We have
two three hundred and twenty eight people in custody in
the NT and that's spread right across our network. The
challenge of courses, as your listeners know, we're full in
all of our major correctional centers. We're overflowing into watchhouses,
which is creating that additional pressure. So as of this morning,
there's about one hundred fifty seven people sitting in three
(01:02):
watchhouses that we're looking after around the Northern Territory. So
that's been a significant operational challenge for our people on
the ground, and it's really.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Tough in terms of your capacity and how many beds
you've sort of got to cater for. And I know
that you can move things around much like a hospital.
I guess when we're overflowing, we make room, but what's
the capacity meant to be?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Well, the capacity at the moment that we're operating to
in our main facilities is twenty one seventy seven. Now
that's an expanded capacity, Katie. Remember that over the last
two years or so, we've added in about two hundred
and thirty beds into the existing system, what we call
infil less than ideal, because we've had to do that
in response to those sort of I guess twenty percent
(01:45):
rising numbers over the last two years. And just to
give you some perspective, Katie and your listeners, since I
became Commissioner in I think two and a half years ago, now,
those numbers mean we've actually grown by about four hundred
prisoners in the Northern territory since when I started, so
two years, yeah, roughly, and it's accelerated in the last
sort of twelve months or so. Now I suppose, you know,
(02:08):
you don't need to be Einstein to work out that
we've got a crime situation out there in the community
and I work pretty closely with the police and their leadership.
They're doing their job, we're trying to do ours. The
situation of the numbers coming to us has been the
single biggest operational pressure we've been facing. Obviously on the
front line, we've added in those extra beds over the
(02:28):
last eighteen months or so, that has all been filled up,
and now we're in watchhouses. Of course, those watchhouses were
meant to be temporary. We don't want to be in them.
They're not ideal, they're not prisons, and we infringe on
police operational activity as well. We know that we work
pretty closely with them, but we'd rather be in our
own facilities running prisons, and that's what this plans all about.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Has it been a difficult juggle over the last couple
of years as those numbers have grown enormously, I mean,
four hundred extra over the last two years. That's a
big number and then having to house them in watch
houses and facilities that in some cases really aren't equipped
for long term use for a prisoner.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Has it been difficult, Well, our folks turn up to
work every day twenty four seven and it's been tough
on them. But I'm really proud of how they've responded
to that challenge. Corrections has done what it does best,
and that is solved problems. Our folk turn up, they
do their best, they manage, they're busy. It stretches us,
but it places extreme pressure on our not only our staff,
(03:29):
but our systems of operating that population. And you know,
good prison management should work on space inside your facility
so that when incidents happen, we manage behaviors. You can
move people around, you can separate them, you can add
you know, circuit breakers in the system, and when you're
over capacity, that's removed as a tool. So it does
create operational pressure for our staff.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Look, we'd spoken to a whistleblower last week who told
us about a terrible assault which had occurred a few
weeks ago where somebody was knocked out, and that whistleblowers
said that some of the behavior management things that you
would usually do within the correction system weren't happening. I mean,
is that the reason why or what is the reason? No?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Look, I mean we firstly on that assault. It's a
very serious assault. We responded immediately in support of those officers,
and the response time of their fellow colleagues that incident
was really good. I spoke with some of our officers
who responded, and you know, we did our best in
that dangerous circumstance and that incident was quickly dealt with.
(04:34):
That doesn't make it okay, though, And I don't want
my officers going to work every day at risk, and
I certainly don't want them being punching bags. And by
the way, we welcome the fact that, you know, new
laws passed by the government will mean assaults on workers
carry more significant penalties. Now that's a good thing for us.
But I guess at the end of the day, Katie,
our officers on the front line every day put themselves
(04:55):
at risk for the territory and do a bloody good
job at it. Now, in that particular instance, there was
a very serious assault, our officers dealt with it. The
offenders involved in that have been managed after the incident
with careful sanctions, and of course we refer that assault
to the police Major Crime Squad, and I'm told that
(05:17):
investigation is continuing. They've got the CCTV, we've made statements,
and eventually those offenders will be charged. But our officers
responded really well. Now, there was some concerns raised, I
understand around imps, which is what we call an intensive
management plan, and those are internal security assessments that we
(05:38):
do on prisoners who are high risk and we can
put restrictions around their behaviors. I understand that there's a
review going on in the prison at the moment by
our senior folk to look at whether the offenders involved
in those assaults should have or would have been on
intensive management plans. But there's also been some confusion, Katie,
about whether or not those offenders were involved in another
(05:59):
previous incident. And I think we're talking about a couple
of different groups of prisoners. But I guess what i'd
say to you and to our staff is that Assistant
Commissioner Michael Hebb, and I've been meeting with him regularly
on this is conducting an independent review of that incident,
and we'll make sure whatever we can learn from it
will do better next time.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, because look for me, fundamentally, and I'm assuming exactly
the same for you, is making sure that those correction
staff are safe. Like you've said, you know, they're going
to work every day and they're not there to be
somebody's punching bag.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
They're not there to get assaulted.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And I know that dangerous situations would unfold, but you know,
you just don't want them to be in a situation
where you know they may be fearful of attending work
in any way.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Well, and I don't want them to be fearful, and
they should have our backing on that. We do what
we can in terms of their operational safety training, if
you like. We do regular refreshers on that they carry
body worn cameras, they carry capsic and spray. We have
something called the Immediate Action Team, which is another group
of specialized emergency response officers on duty to respond to
high riskins cidence. There are things we can put in place,
(07:02):
but I don't want to diminish the fact that our
offices in the blocks every day are placing themselves in
risky situations that most people wouldn't contemplate. My job and
our team's job is to make sure we're supporting them
as best we can and every single day. If we
can improve on that.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
We will now And are you confident that your middle
management is passing up some of that information all the
way up to you as those correctional staff want to happen.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Well, what I've asked for is for that to be
investigated and reviewed. Now, I'm not saying that anyone's done
anything wrong here. I'm not even saying that your whistleblower
who wrote the letter has made an incorrect claim.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
What I've asked for is.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
The facts, and I've asked for a report back on
what actually occurred in the chronology of that incident. And
as I said, if there are practices procedures that need
to be fixed, we'll do that. What I don't have
is any suggestion or evidence that people are just not
handling situations properly. But again, let's get the facts and
let's work through it.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
In terms of the number of prisoners that we've currently
got two three hundred and twenty eight prisoners across the
correctional facilities.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Do you know how many of those are on Remand
I do, but the answer is about forty seven to
forty eight percent, Kate, Katie, sorry, it's today one thousand
and forty three.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So that's big numbers, such big nighbors, right, and.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
That you know, I think the thing to remember there
is that's where the primary growth has been. Over the
last two years. We've seen the growth in the remand
population you know, continue to accelerate. That puts significant pressure
on us. It puts significant pressure on courts. We escort
people to court every day, you know. Just as a fact, Katie,
a bit of trivia for your listeners out at Darwin,
(08:42):
we probably do around eighty to ninety video links to
court from the prison every day. Smaller numbers in Alice Springs,
but still we have dedicated av booths in the prisons
where prisoners can appear at court without actually being transported.
And then every day we're also transporting physically into court.
So it's a big machine.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
So in terms of the changes you know and what's
been announced, how big an impact is it going to
make for you, hopefully in terms of the operations of
our correctional facilities.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Well, my primary objective is to do a few things.
One is to reduce pressure on the police watchhouses and
return those to police as soon as possible, so that
we can get into our facilities and run them like
we do as a correctional institution. The second thing is
to provide I guess pressure relief on our existing prisons
by building out new capacity, and that is through a
(09:34):
staged kind of plan over the next two or three
years as you've seen, and also to deliver on some
of the commitments that government's made around new facilities. This
first emergency stage of I guess emergency response to watchhouses
is happening now. You know. We've got a plan there
to move the young people from don Dale into the
new center. That should happen in the first week of November.
(09:56):
And I have work crews and trades persons and my
team on site at Dondale now already cleaning up that site,
making it fit for our use.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
And is it going to be up to the standard
that you want it to be.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Look, it's not perfect and it's not ideal. What I'd
say is though it's secure, it's safe, it's operable, and
we've had our staff there, we've had our experts looking
through it like it's an old prison, Katie right, it
was closed down as a men's facility in twenty forty
when we built holts, but we've outgrown holes and so
this is an emergency response. Now we think and I say,
(10:30):
we can make it safe. We can make it secure.
It's got a fence, it's got locked doors, it's got
cell blocks. It doesn't have to be pretty, but it
can work.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Now in terms of then programs being delivered and making
sure that prisoners are being rehabilitated or undertaking programs where
hopefully they can be are you confident that that's going
to be able to happen.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Well, we're going to keep growing that And recently I've
appointed a new Assistant Commissioner who's going to be in
charge of our industries and employment programs, and that's something
we're keen to grow and build. We already do some
work in that space, but we're going to do heaps more.
And Assistant Commissioner Kim McKay has joined us from South
Australia Corrections. He's a very experienced senior officer run prisons
(11:09):
in both WA and Essay and I've tasked him to
firstly commission that site out at Berrima and secondly work
on building up our industries and our employment programs. So
you know, sentence to a job is something that we've
been tasked to rejuvenate. And then of course we're also
at any time recruiting more psychologists small clinicians to keep
working on those rehabilitation how's.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
The sentence toood or been going in recent time? Has
it been operating at the standard you want it to be.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Sentence to a Job is a scheme where we partner
with community based employers and we have some what we
call open rated prisoners, Katie. These are our most trusted
sentence prisoners who have done some progression through the system
to earn a degree of trust. Those open rated prisoners
go out and work in the community at employers, so
that happens. But we also have the community service work crews.
(11:57):
As you know, we have people working in the industry's
play in inside the prison. And you know, as I
said the other day, people don't people don't know what
goes on behind the walls. Though we have an industrial
kitchen at Halts that turns out three thousand meals a day,
run entirely by prisoners and a few staff. So sends
to a job is working. But what we're focused on
(12:18):
doing is growing it more.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, have you got many people involved in it at
this stage?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
We do have a we have a I think, off
top of my memory about a dozen employers involved in
the community. But as I said, on any given day,
there's probably about eight hundred prisoners who have a job
in our prison system. But what we're going to be
doing is building up industries, and we're going to also
be working about how do we partner with employers so
that those jobs continue when they get back out into
(12:43):
the community.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Now, as part of all the changes that have occurred
as well, or that are sort of occurring, I understand
that you're now well you've always been in charge of
looking after the adults, but the youths now fall back.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Under your responsibility. Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Well, the new Department of Correcttions that the government has
announced and established now brings together adult.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
And youth justice.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
So yes, I have responsibility for the folks who run
our youth detention centers, residential youth justice facilities, and bail facilities,
and also the community youth programs that we do for
young offenders.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Have we got many young people in detention at the moment.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Well, we have twenty five today between Darwin and Alice Katie.
I think it's probably decreased a bit over the last
few years, and that's because we have a few more
options in the system to be able to refer young
people too. But those numbers, you know, although small, fluctuate
a little bit. And again sixty to seventy percent of
those young people are on remand for various offenses. The
(13:46):
turnover of that romand population can be pretty quick. Sometimes
you know, some of them will stay less than seven days,
depending on their court case. But we have today in
don Dale about eleven in an Alice Springs fourteen.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I know there'd been a bit of discussion of earlier
in the week, and I'd actually spoken to the Chief
Minister about it as well, about the fact that some
of those youths from Alice Springs are going to be
transferred up to Darwin and that they wouldn't be able
to have visitation then from their family members. My understanding
from what the Chief Minister had said is that in
some cases those youth aren't getting.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
A lot of visitors.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I mean, like, what's your take on that situation and
do you think that it's going to have a big
impact or is it something that you know realistically it
needs to happen.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Well, we looked at well, well, I can tell you
when the Chief Minister met with me and the Minister
for Correction soon after she was elected, she tasked me
to do an entire review of the corrections I guess network,
including youth Justice to solve some of those problems that
we spoke about. When I did that and looked at that,
(14:49):
it made sense to me and to my team that
we run the new Holtz Youth Justice Center as the
single primary youth detention center for the NT not dis
similar to other jurisdictions. In some res it has forty
four to forty six beds single bedrooms. We can upscale
that with the addition of extra beds in those rooms,
so it has plenty of capacity. It's purpose built from
(15:10):
the ground up. By transferring the Youth Justice kids from
Alice to Darwin into that main facility, we unlock the
ability to use that Alice brings youth detention center for women,
and I solve that problem by unlocking more beds for
men in the main prison. So presently we have women
one hundred and twenty odd women in the Northern Territory
(15:30):
between Darwin and Alice sitting inside the perimeter of men's prisons,
which brings a whole lot of risk and a whole
lot of infringement on the services we can provide to them.
So my job is to look at that entire network.
Now to your question about kids moving to the North, yep, Yes,
that's a problem. It's a practical solution to a problem
(15:50):
of a much bigger scale, and we recognize that we've
got to do work to make sure kids receive the
services that they need in youth attention. Believe we can
do that at Holts in a best practice facility. And
the honest reality, Katie is you know we don't see
the numbers of visits from family in youth attention that
(16:11):
people might think we do. The majority of visits we
facilitate into those youth centers are actually professional visits from
lawyers and services.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Matthew Varley, Before I let you go this morning, the
big question obviously is around staffing levels. I know that
the Union had told us yesterday on the show that
they believe that we're going to need an additional eighty
to one hundred officers in Alice Springs based on the
increase in beds sixty to seventy officers in the top end.
How many do you anticipate your need.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
I still want to work through those numbers with the union, Katie.
I'm actually meeting with the two unions this morning, and
now that those announcements have been made, we're starting the
consultation process on the models for those new facilities. So
I don't want to put a number on it, because
I guess that's part of the work we'll do. But
we still are recruiting lots of correctional offices for the NT.
(17:03):
I make the point we do have more correctional offices
in the NT than ever before. We've got six hundred
almost seven hundred, actually six hundred and ninety nine at
last pay, and that number has steadily grown over the
last two years. In Alice Springs, for example, we have
one hundred and ninety one offices on the books today.
We can do with more. I think, actually, you know easily,
(17:25):
I would recruit another thirty forty officers into Alice Springs tomorrow.
And we've been recruiting hard over the last two years.
And we've got another I think fifteen officers graduating here
in Darwin on Friday, and another seventeen in training that
should graduate before Christmas.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Well Northern Territory Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley really appreciate your
time this morning.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Thanks for joining us on the show.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Good to talk Katie.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Thank you
Now it's a busy morning in here.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It always is eight nine one four nine if you'd
like to call through. Now. We've spoken at length over
the last couple of days about the government's plans to
expand the number of beds that we've got in Northern
Territory prisons. Now it is a bold plan which will
initially see an additional one thousand beds and it's then
going to see that number increase to three thousand long term.
(00:23):
The man tasked with managing the Northern Territory's correctional facilities
is Commissioner Matthew Varley, and he joins me in the
studio right now.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Good morning to your commissioner. Good morning Katie, thanks so
much for your time this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Now, Commissioner, how many prisoners are currently in our correctional facilities?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
A lot, Katie, is the short answer. Today. We have
two three hundred and twenty eight people in custody in
the NT and that's spread right across our network. The
challenge of courses, as your listeners know, we're full in
all of our major correctional centers. We're overflowing into watchhouses,
which is creating that additional pressure. So as of this morning,
there's about one hundred fifty seven people sitting in three
(01:02):
watchhouses that we're looking after around the Northern Territory. So
that's been a significant operational challenge for our people on
the ground, and it's really.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Tough in terms of your capacity and how many beds
you've sort of got to cater for. And I know
that you can move things around much like a hospital.
I guess when we're overflowing, we make room, but what's
the capacity meant to be?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Well, the capacity at the moment that we're operating to
in our main facilities is twenty one seventy seven. Now
that's an expanded capacity, Katie. Remember that over the last
two years or so, we've added in about two hundred
and thirty beds into the existing system, what we call
infil less than ideal, because we've had to do that
in response to those sort of I guess twenty percent
(01:45):
rising numbers over the last two years. And just to
give you some perspective, Katie and your listeners, since I
became Commissioner in I think two and a half years ago, now,
those numbers mean we've actually grown by about four hundred
prisoners in the Northern territory since when I started, so
two years, yeah, roughly, and it's accelerated in the last
sort of twelve months or so. Now I suppose, you know,
(02:08):
you don't need to be Einstein to work out that
we've got a crime situation out there in the community
and I work pretty closely with the police and their leadership.
They're doing their job, we're trying to do ours. The
situation of the numbers coming to us has been the
single biggest operational pressure we've been facing. Obviously on the
front line, we've added in those extra beds over the
(02:28):
last eighteen months or so, that has all been filled up,
and now we're in watchhouses. Of course, those watchhouses were
meant to be temporary. We don't want to be in them.
They're not ideal, they're not prisons, and we infringe on
police operational activity as well. We know that we work
pretty closely with them, but we'd rather be in our
own facilities running prisons, and that's what this plans all about.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Has it been a difficult juggle over the last couple
of years as those numbers have grown enormously, I mean,
four hundred extra over the last two years. That's a
big number and then having to house them in watch
houses and facilities that in some cases really aren't equipped
for long term use for a prisoner.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Has it been difficult, Well, our folks turn up to
work every day twenty four seven and it's been tough
on them. But I'm really proud of how they've responded
to that challenge. Corrections has done what it does best,
and that is solved problems. Our folk turn up, they
do their best, they manage, they're busy. It stretches us,
but it places extreme pressure on our not only our staff,
(03:29):
but our systems of operating that population. And you know,
good prison management should work on space inside your facility
so that when incidents happen, we manage behaviors. You can
move people around, you can separate them, you can add
you know, circuit breakers in the system, and when you're
over capacity, that's removed as a tool. So it does
create operational pressure for our staff.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Look, we'd spoken to a whistleblower last week who told
us about a terrible assault which had occurred a few
weeks ago where somebody was knocked out, and that whistleblowers
said that some of the behavior management things that you
would usually do within the correction system weren't happening. I mean,
is that the reason why or what is the reason? No?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Look, I mean we firstly on that assault. It's a
very serious assault. We responded immediately in support of those officers,
and the response time of their fellow colleagues that incident
was really good. I spoke with some of our officers
who responded, and you know, we did our best in
that dangerous circumstance and that incident was quickly dealt with.
(04:34):
That doesn't make it okay, though, And I don't want
my officers going to work every day at risk, and
I certainly don't want them being punching bags. And by
the way, we welcome the fact that, you know, new
laws passed by the government will mean assaults on workers
carry more significant penalties. Now that's a good thing for us.
But I guess at the end of the day, Katie,
our officers on the front line every day put themselves
(04:55):
at risk for the territory and do a bloody good
job at it. Now, in that particular instance, there was
a very serious assault, our officers dealt with it. The
offenders involved in that have been managed after the incident
with careful sanctions, and of course we refer that assault
to the police Major Crime Squad, and I'm told that
(05:17):
investigation is continuing. They've got the CCTV, we've made statements,
and eventually those offenders will be charged. But our officers
responded really well. Now, there was some concerns raised, I
understand around imps, which is what we call an intensive
management plan, and those are internal security assessments that we
(05:38):
do on prisoners who are high risk and we can
put restrictions around their behaviors. I understand that there's a
review going on in the prison at the moment by
our senior folk to look at whether the offenders involved
in those assaults should have or would have been on
intensive management plans. But there's also been some confusion, Katie,
about whether or not those offenders were involved in another
(05:59):
previous incident. And I think we're talking about a couple
of different groups of prisoners. But I guess what i'd
say to you and to our staff is that Assistant
Commissioner Michael Hebb, and I've been meeting with him regularly
on this is conducting an independent review of that incident,
and we'll make sure whatever we can learn from it
will do better next time.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, because look for me, fundamentally, and I'm assuming exactly
the same for you, is making sure that those correction
staff are safe. Like you've said, you know, they're going
to work every day and they're not there to be
somebody's punching bag.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
They're not there to get assaulted.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And I know that dangerous situations would unfold, but you know,
you just don't want them to be in a situation
where you know they may be fearful of attending work
in any way.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Well, and I don't want them to be fearful, and
they should have our backing on that. We do what
we can in terms of their operational safety training, if
you like. We do regular refreshers on that they carry
body worn cameras, they carry capsic and spray. We have
something called the Immediate Action Team, which is another group
of specialized emergency response officers on duty to respond to
high riskins cidence. There are things we can put in place,
(07:02):
but I don't want to diminish the fact that our
offices in the blocks every day are placing themselves in
risky situations that most people wouldn't contemplate. My job and
our team's job is to make sure we're supporting them
as best we can and every single day. If we
can improve on that.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
We will now And are you confident that your middle
management is passing up some of that information all the
way up to you as those correctional staff want to happen.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Well, what I've asked for is for that to be
investigated and reviewed. Now, I'm not saying that anyone's done
anything wrong here. I'm not even saying that your whistleblower
who wrote the letter has made an incorrect claim.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
What I've asked for is.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
The facts, and I've asked for a report back on
what actually occurred in the chronology of that incident. And
as I said, if there are practices procedures that need
to be fixed, we'll do that. What I don't have
is any suggestion or evidence that people are just not
handling situations properly. But again, let's get the facts and
let's work through it.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
In terms of the number of prisoners that we've currently
got two three hundred and twenty eight prisoners across the
correctional facilities.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Do you know how many of those are on Remand
I do, but the answer is about forty seven to
forty eight percent, Kate, Katie, sorry, it's today one thousand
and forty three.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So that's big numbers, such big nighbors, right, and.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
That you know, I think the thing to remember there
is that's where the primary growth has been. Over the
last two years. We've seen the growth in the remand
population you know, continue to accelerate. That puts significant pressure
on us. It puts significant pressure on courts. We escort
people to court every day, you know. Just as a fact, Katie,
a bit of trivia for your listeners out at Darwin,
(08:42):
we probably do around eighty to ninety video links to
court from the prison every day. Smaller numbers in Alice Springs,
but still we have dedicated av booths in the prisons
where prisoners can appear at court without actually being transported.
And then every day we're also transporting physically into court.
So it's a big machine.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
So in terms of the changes you know and what's
been announced, how big an impact is it going to
make for you, hopefully in terms of the operations of
our correctional facilities.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Well, my primary objective is to do a few things.
One is to reduce pressure on the police watchhouses and
return those to police as soon as possible, so that
we can get into our facilities and run them like
we do as a correctional institution. The second thing is
to provide I guess pressure relief on our existing prisons
by building out new capacity, and that is through a
(09:34):
staged kind of plan over the next two or three
years as you've seen, and also to deliver on some
of the commitments that government's made around new facilities. This
first emergency stage of I guess emergency response to watchhouses
is happening now. You know. We've got a plan there
to move the young people from don Dale into the
new center. That should happen in the first week of November.
(09:56):
And I have work crews and trades persons and my
team on site at Dondale now already cleaning up that site,
making it fit for our use.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
And is it going to be up to the standard
that you want it to be.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Look, it's not perfect and it's not ideal. What I'd
say is though it's secure, it's safe, it's operable, and
we've had our staff there, we've had our experts looking
through it like it's an old prison, Katie right, it
was closed down as a men's facility in twenty forty
when we built holts, but we've outgrown holes and so
this is an emergency response. Now we think and I say,
(10:30):
we can make it safe. We can make it secure.
It's got a fence, it's got locked doors, it's got
cell blocks. It doesn't have to be pretty, but it
can work.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Now in terms of then programs being delivered and making
sure that prisoners are being rehabilitated or undertaking programs where
hopefully they can be are you confident that that's going
to be able to happen.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Well, we're going to keep growing that And recently I've
appointed a new Assistant Commissioner who's going to be in
charge of our industries and employment programs, and that's something
we're keen to grow and build. We already do some
work in that space, but we're going to do heaps more.
And Assistant Commissioner Kim McKay has joined us from South
Australia Corrections. He's a very experienced senior officer run prisons
(11:09):
in both WA and Essay and I've tasked him to
firstly commission that site out at Berrima and secondly work
on building up our industries and our employment programs. So
you know, sentence to a job is something that we've
been tasked to rejuvenate. And then of course we're also
at any time recruiting more psychologists small clinicians to keep
working on those rehabilitation how's.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
The sentence toood or been going in recent time? Has
it been operating at the standard you want it to be.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Sentence to a Job is a scheme where we partner
with community based employers and we have some what we
call open rated prisoners, Katie. These are our most trusted
sentence prisoners who have done some progression through the system
to earn a degree of trust. Those open rated prisoners
go out and work in the community at employers, so
that happens. But we also have the community service work crews.
(11:57):
As you know, we have people working in the industry's
play in inside the prison. And you know, as I
said the other day, people don't people don't know what
goes on behind the walls. Though we have an industrial
kitchen at Halts that turns out three thousand meals a day,
run entirely by prisoners and a few staff. So sends
to a job is working. But what we're focused on
(12:18):
doing is growing it more.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, have you got many people involved in it at
this stage?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
We do have a we have a I think, off
top of my memory about a dozen employers involved in
the community. But as I said, on any given day,
there's probably about eight hundred prisoners who have a job
in our prison system. But what we're going to be
doing is building up industries, and we're going to also
be working about how do we partner with employers so
that those jobs continue when they get back out into
(12:43):
the community.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Now, as part of all the changes that have occurred
as well, or that are sort of occurring, I understand
that you're now well you've always been in charge of
looking after the adults, but the youths now fall back.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Under your responsibility. Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Well, the new Department of Correcttions that the government has
announced and established now brings together adult.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
And youth justice.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
So yes, I have responsibility for the folks who run
our youth detention centers, residential youth justice facilities, and bail facilities,
and also the community youth programs that we do for
young offenders.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Have we got many young people in detention at the moment.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Well, we have twenty five today between Darwin and Alice Katie.
I think it's probably decreased a bit over the last
few years, and that's because we have a few more
options in the system to be able to refer young
people too. But those numbers, you know, although small, fluctuate
a little bit. And again sixty to seventy percent of
those young people are on remand for various offenses. The
(13:46):
turnover of that romand population can be pretty quick. Sometimes
you know, some of them will stay less than seven days,
depending on their court case. But we have today in
don Dale about eleven in an Alice Springs fourteen.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I know there'd been a bit of discussion of earlier
in the week, and I'd actually spoken to the Chief
Minister about it as well, about the fact that some
of those youths from Alice Springs are going to be
transferred up to Darwin and that they wouldn't be able
to have visitation then from their family members. My understanding
from what the Chief Minister had said is that in
some cases those youth aren't getting.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
A lot of visitors.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I mean, like, what's your take on that situation and
do you think that it's going to have a big
impact or is it something that you know realistically it
needs to happen.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Well, we looked at well, well, I can tell you
when the Chief Minister met with me and the Minister
for Correction soon after she was elected, she tasked me
to do an entire review of the corrections I guess network,
including youth Justice to solve some of those problems that
we spoke about. When I did that and looked at that,
(14:49):
it made sense to me and to my team that
we run the new Holtz Youth Justice Center as the
single primary youth detention center for the NT not dis
similar to other jurisdictions. In some res it has forty
four to forty six beds single bedrooms. We can upscale
that with the addition of extra beds in those rooms,
so it has plenty of capacity. It's purpose built from
(15:10):
the ground up. By transferring the Youth Justice kids from
Alice to Darwin into that main facility, we unlock the
ability to use that Alice brings youth detention center for women,
and I solve that problem by unlocking more beds for
men in the main prison. So presently we have women
one hundred and twenty odd women in the Northern Territory
(15:30):
between Darwin and Alice sitting inside the perimeter of men's prisons,
which brings a whole lot of risk and a whole
lot of infringement on the services we can provide to them.
So my job is to look at that entire network.
Now to your question about kids moving to the North, yep, Yes,
that's a problem. It's a practical solution to a problem
(15:50):
of a much bigger scale, and we recognize that we've
got to do work to make sure kids receive the
services that they need in youth attention. Believe we can
do that at Holts in a best practice facility. And
the honest reality, Katie is you know we don't see
the numbers of visits from family in youth attention that
(16:11):
people might think we do. The majority of visits we
facilitate into those youth centers are actually professional visits from
lawyers and services.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Matthew Varley, Before I let you go this morning, the
big question obviously is around staffing levels. I know that
the Union had told us yesterday on the show that
they believe that we're going to need an additional eighty
to one hundred officers in Alice Springs based on the
increase in beds sixty to seventy officers in the top end.
How many do you anticipate your need.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
I still want to work through those numbers with the union, Katie.
I'm actually meeting with the two unions this morning, and
now that those announcements have been made, we're starting the
consultation process on the models for those new facilities. So
I don't want to put a number on it, because
I guess that's part of the work we'll do. But
we still are recruiting lots of correctional offices for the NT.
(17:03):
I make the point we do have more correctional offices
in the NT than ever before. We've got six hundred
almost seven hundred, actually six hundred and ninety nine at
last pay, and that number has steadily grown over the
last two years. In Alice Springs, for example, we have
one hundred and ninety one offices on the books today.
We can do with more. I think, actually, you know easily,
(17:25):
I would recruit another thirty forty officers into Alice Springs tomorrow.
And we've been recruiting hard over the last two years.
And we've got another I think fifteen officers graduating here
in Darwin on Friday, and another seventeen in training that
should graduate before Christmas.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Well Northern Territory Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley really appreciate your
time this morning.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Thanks for joining us on the show.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Good to talk Katie.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Thank you
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