Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yesterday saw the commencement of the coronial inquest into the
tragic death of Senior Constable Michael Mickey d Dutromp. The
Northern Territory Police Association say Michael was more than just
a police officer. He was a friend, a mentor and
a deeply respected member of the Northern Territory Police Force.
His sudden loss continues to be felt profoundly by his colleagues,
(00:22):
his friends, and the broader policing community. Now joining me
in the studio is the President of the Northern Territory
Police Association, Nathan Finn. Good morning, Finny, Good morning Katy,
and good morning to your listeners. Finny, what is the
aim of the inquest?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Aim the inquests to obviously look at the circumstances that
led to his death, how that came about, the acumulative
effect that these types of traumas have on members that
leads them to suicide. On this occasion, this was a
very difficult time for our Northern Territory Police Force going
back a couple of years now, but there was four
suicides in the matter of three months for our members.
(01:00):
Tough time. All we want and all our members want,
is answers and to show the real cumulative effect that
these traumas have that we go to day and day out,
our members think nothing of, have a profound effect on
our members, both now and into the future. And when
they're trying to serve, any little thing can flame something up.
It may be something that you don't think of for
ten years time and fifteen years time. It's just the
(01:22):
cumulative effect that it has and continues to have. We're
looking at things that look back twenty years ago when
he first joined. There's a number of factors that lead
to this situation. But my thing is, Katie, is that
we need to get to the bottom of it. We
need to know why the circumstances which led to his death,
which felt like he didn't have the support that he
needed to go on. We also need to make sure
(01:45):
that this doesn't happen again. I know that's easy to say.
It's a complex matter, it's a complex PTSD traumatic events
and that police are still going to have to go
to them, and we need to work out a way
of how we can manage our staff and making sure
they're supported in doing what they need to do. Katie,
and it really hits home. It's hit home for a
lot of our members in the police force. It hits home,
(02:06):
especially for our office who are obviously representing the Dutrim
family at this coronial inquest, but also for his colleagues
that have worked with him over that many many years.
This fellow was a genuine fellow that would give you
a close off his back if he could. He would
do anything to help those fellow members, and unfortunately he
felt that he'd let himself down and felt that there
(02:28):
was no other alternaty to do what he'd done. But
our members are struggling, our colleagues are stragling at this
difficult time. But more though, we want answers, We want
to make sure that these guys are supported going forward.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Absolutely, and Finny, I can hear the emotion in your
voice as you speak, because he was absolutely loved, a
love member of the police force. But also I think
it's a really important time for all of us within
the Northern Territory community as well to really sort of
reflect on the work that the Northern Territory Police do
and the fact that officers every single day are going
(03:01):
out to different incidents, not only where they're in harm's way,
but you know, we're they're out to fatalities and they're
heading out to different incidents where people are severely injured.
And here in the NT there's not six degrees of separation,
there's none, you know, see going out to these traumas
and you're not knowing who you're going to see or
(03:23):
whether it's somebody's family member or someone's friend.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
No, And that's the difficult our police officers have you
in all the church because it is a small population,
we obviously know the family who we're dealing with, or
know the person personally who we're dealing with. And that's
very hard to deal with and very hard to come
home and actually switch off after a day like that,
the traumatic events that you see, the traumatic events you
deal with, it's very hard to switch off. Now a
(03:45):
lot of our members are carrying PTSD from the incidents
they attend day in day out. Unfortunately, we haven't got
the ability to run away from dangerous events where the
members that are running towards that dangerous events, and that
takes a toll on its members and we need to
high like that that we are and we do suffer
damage both mentally and physically from the role which we do.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Finny in terms of I mean you touched on this.
She said, it's going to look into systems around our
police and how they can or how there could be
better support. I mean, is there enough support within the
force at the moment for those that are suffering from
PTSD or mental health issues?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Katie always asks, there is never enough you can possibly do.
There's always a situation which will come up which is
not covered by a manual, not covered by a policy.
Members feel that they're not supported. If they feel they're
not supported, that's where the issue is. We need to
make sure that those services are available to make sure
that we're a police forces. They're burnt out, they're struggling,
(04:45):
They're struggling to keep up with the demand and the
pressures that are placing on both only them at work
and also their personal lives as well when they're continually
asked to do more with less. That's where our members
are struggling, and it's it's the moral injuries that they
want to do the best they possibly can for our
community with the limited possible resources they've got.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
And I mean, how is the morale within the force,
Because I think that point that you've just touched on
right that you know, officers are having to do more
with less, but they're also being called out to more
crime than ever before. You know, our crime rates are
so incredibly high. We know that there are so many
issues being experienced now. Certainly on this show, we appreciate
(05:25):
the work of our Northern Territory Police Force. We talk
about it almost daily because if the cops aren't going
there to those incidents, a lot of.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Their community are very supportive of police. Yes, there are
times where people, quite rightfully, we get criticized because of
we call the police and then they don't come. Unfortunately,
they would love to come. I can guarantee that it
drives them absolutely crazy when they can't get to help
the members of the public because that's what they do.
They coming to make a difference and make us serve
the community and to make sure you're safe and well.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Mate. How like, what are you really hoping comes from
this coronial?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
It's coming so far through Obviously day one yesterday we've
seen some highlights of remote staffing and the issues we
have with remote staffing. We discussed yesterday about a position
where one of the members was left for thirty five
days at one of the remote stations. By herself at
one of our most remote, isolated police stations in the
Northern Territory. This is the evidence that's been given at
(06:21):
the moment, and this is shocking. This is shocking to
our members know this is happening. They are asking for relief,
they are asking for staff, they're getting told continually no
and not getting that support they need. Remote is very hard.
It's a very isolated place. You are on call, technically
on call, even though they say they don't pay it,
on call allowance and everything else. The members are on call.
(06:42):
They're at the beck and call of the community that
they serve, and they want to make a difference in
that community. That's why they're there. That's why they want
to be there to serve. But it's overwhelming. It is
frustrating the level of crime that we see, not only
in these communities, also across the major centers and regional
centers as well as the Northern Territory. Our members can't
keep up, and they've been telling that for a long time,
(07:02):
and this highlights the reasons why we can't keep up
and highlight the dangers that the faces that were their
police officers when they can't and they feel.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Helpless, Finny, I mean to any of those officers listening
this morning who may need some additional support, I mean,
can they reach out to the association.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Association. There's also employee support services through the Northern Churchy
Police Force. There's psychiatric professional advice of well, there's also
obviously peer support offices as well. But my main thing
is if you are struggling, speak up. It's okay not
to be okay, and I passed that on to a
lot of our members whenever I speak to them, it's
okay seek advice. Someone's been through the similar position what
(07:42):
you're going through, and they'll have an understanding of what
you're going through. So the main thing is speak out,
reach out for help. We're all here to help. We're
a brotherhood, we're a sisterhood. We're a tight family. The
Blue Family is there to support you and make sure
you do please.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Fantastic advice, I think, Phinny, really good advice to anybody
out there listening this morning. Before I let you go,
and I know it is such a tough time at
the moment for the force, but before I let you go,
we have been speaking a lot about some of the
increased crime in Catherine and in Alice Springs. At the moment,
I know it's not isolated even for us up here
in Darwin. It's something we've been talking about make water
(08:20):
officers telling you at the moment, the.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Officers are telling us that there is an increase in
population into our regional centers. This is nothing unusual, Cadie.
We see that this time of the year, our communities
come into town more than around with the show circuits
come into town. There's obviously shopping, there's obviously royalties that
come in this time of the year. For our remote communities,
they come into for extended periods and which puts extra
pressure on the resources we've got in those major centers. Again,
(08:46):
it's a bit of a respite for our officers that
work in the remote community. But unfortunately our remote communities
are heavily understaffed at the moment, so they're getting a
reprieve with the extra population leaving those communities, but also
places extra burden on our members within those regional centers.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
What do you make of this discussion? And we just
spoke to the opposition leader Selena Yubo about this about
the potential of the BDR being introduced into licensed venues,
so not just take away out let's, but license venues
as well.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I've yeah again, Katie, this is something we've requested for
a long time. There's a bit of a sort of
a loophole where they can't buy takeaway and they prefer
to drink in the street where they're going to licensed
premises where they can consume an inordinate amount of alcohol,
become intoxicatd then create the same scenario. I know, it's
supposed to be a much more controlled environment. We applaud
any restrictions that can be placed. We see alcohol fuel violence.
(09:37):
Alcohol fuel violence is one of the biggest key indicators
of crime right across the Northern Territory and our members
get quite frankly sick of it, dealing with intoxicated people left,
right and cent. If that wasn't there, and we've seen
that during other times when alcohol is not available, the
downturn in police response jobs is huge, and we notice
that our members notice that and they applaud any implications
(10:00):
of alcohol restrictions put in place.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Well. Nathan Finn, President of the Northern Territory Police Association,
I really appreciate your time this morning. I can see
you know, I can see the emotion in you today.
It's going to be a tough time for you guys
with this coronial. I'm thinking of everybody involved, particularly Mickey
D's family, friends, all of you guys. So thank you
(10:23):
very much for joining us this morning. It's much appreciated.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Thank you, Katti, and obviously as just before we go,
thank you to the men and women. It's a very
tough week for a lot of us involved going through
the evidence, listening to the evidence involved. All I can
say is look after each other. We're there for each other,
We're there for Meggy D and to make sure there's
answers being made and people are held accountable for those decisions.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Good on your finny. Thank you mate, I appreciate your
time as always,
Yesterday saw the commencement of the coronial inquest into the
tragic death of Senior Constable Michael Mickey d Dutromp. The
Northern Territory Police Association say Michael was more than just
a police officer. He was a friend, a mentor and
a deeply respected member of the Northern Territory Police Force.
His sudden loss continues to be felt profoundly by his colleagues,
(00:22):
his friends, and the broader policing community. Now joining me
in the studio is the President of the Northern Territory
Police Association, Nathan Finn. Good morning, Finny, Good morning Katy,
and good morning to your listeners. Finny, what is the
aim of the inquest?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Aim the inquests to obviously look at the circumstances that
led to his death, how that came about, the acumulative
effect that these types of traumas have on members that
leads them to suicide. On this occasion, this was a
very difficult time for our Northern Territory Police Force going
back a couple of years now, but there was four
suicides in the matter of three months for our members.
(01:00):
Tough time. All we want and all our members want,
is answers and to show the real cumulative effect that
these traumas have that we go to day and day out,
our members think nothing of, have a profound effect on
our members, both now and into the future. And when
they're trying to serve, any little thing can flame something up.
It may be something that you don't think of for
ten years time and fifteen years time. It's just the
(01:22):
cumulative effect that it has and continues to have. We're
looking at things that look back twenty years ago when
he first joined. There's a number of factors that lead
to this situation. But my thing is, Katie, is that
we need to get to the bottom of it. We
need to know why the circumstances which led to his death,
which felt like he didn't have the support that he
needed to go on. We also need to make sure
(01:45):
that this doesn't happen again. I know that's easy to say.
It's a complex matter, it's a complex PTSD traumatic events
and that police are still going to have to go
to them, and we need to work out a way
of how we can manage our staff and making sure
they're supported in doing what they need to do. Katie,
and it really hits home. It's hit home for a
lot of our members in the police force. It hits home,
(02:06):
especially for our office who are obviously representing the Dutrim
family at this coronial inquest, but also for his colleagues
that have worked with him over that many many years.
This fellow was a genuine fellow that would give you
a close off his back if he could. He would
do anything to help those fellow members, and unfortunately he
felt that he'd let himself down and felt that there
(02:28):
was no other alternaty to do what he'd done. But
our members are struggling, our colleagues are stragling at this
difficult time. But more though, we want answers, We want
to make sure that these guys are supported going forward.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Absolutely, and Finny, I can hear the emotion in your
voice as you speak, because he was absolutely loved, a
love member of the police force. But also I think
it's a really important time for all of us within
the Northern Territory community as well to really sort of
reflect on the work that the Northern Territory Police do
and the fact that officers every single day are going
(03:01):
out to different incidents, not only where they're in harm's way,
but you know, we're they're out to fatalities and they're
heading out to different incidents where people are severely injured.
And here in the NT there's not six degrees of separation,
there's none, you know, see going out to these traumas
and you're not knowing who you're going to see or
(03:23):
whether it's somebody's family member or someone's friend.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
No, And that's the difficult our police officers have you
in all the church because it is a small population,
we obviously know the family who we're dealing with, or
know the person personally who we're dealing with. And that's
very hard to deal with and very hard to come
home and actually switch off after a day like that,
the traumatic events that you see, the traumatic events you
deal with, it's very hard to switch off. Now a
(03:45):
lot of our members are carrying PTSD from the incidents
they attend day in day out. Unfortunately, we haven't got
the ability to run away from dangerous events where the
members that are running towards that dangerous events, and that
takes a toll on its members and we need to
high like that that we are and we do suffer
damage both mentally and physically from the role which we do.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Finny in terms of I mean you touched on this.
She said, it's going to look into systems around our
police and how they can or how there could be
better support. I mean, is there enough support within the
force at the moment for those that are suffering from
PTSD or mental health issues?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Katie always asks, there is never enough you can possibly do.
There's always a situation which will come up which is
not covered by a manual, not covered by a policy.
Members feel that they're not supported. If they feel they're
not supported, that's where the issue is. We need to
make sure that those services are available to make sure
that we're a police forces. They're burnt out, they're struggling,
(04:45):
They're struggling to keep up with the demand and the
pressures that are placing on both only them at work
and also their personal lives as well when they're continually
asked to do more with less. That's where our members
are struggling, and it's it's the moral injuries that they
want to do the best they possibly can for our
community with the limited possible resources they've got.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
And I mean, how is the morale within the force,
Because I think that point that you've just touched on
right that you know, officers are having to do more
with less, but they're also being called out to more
crime than ever before. You know, our crime rates are
so incredibly high. We know that there are so many
issues being experienced now. Certainly on this show, we appreciate
(05:25):
the work of our Northern Territory Police Force. We talk
about it almost daily because if the cops aren't going
there to those incidents, a lot of.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Their community are very supportive of police. Yes, there are
times where people, quite rightfully, we get criticized because of
we call the police and then they don't come. Unfortunately,
they would love to come. I can guarantee that it
drives them absolutely crazy when they can't get to help
the members of the public because that's what they do.
They coming to make a difference and make us serve
the community and to make sure you're safe and well.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Mate. How like, what are you really hoping comes from
this coronial?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
It's coming so far through Obviously day one yesterday we've
seen some highlights of remote staffing and the issues we
have with remote staffing. We discussed yesterday about a position
where one of the members was left for thirty five
days at one of the remote stations. By herself at
one of our most remote, isolated police stations in the
Northern Territory. This is the evidence that's been given at
(06:21):
the moment, and this is shocking. This is shocking to
our members know this is happening. They are asking for relief,
they are asking for staff, they're getting told continually no
and not getting that support they need. Remote is very hard.
It's a very isolated place. You are on call, technically
on call, even though they say they don't pay it,
on call allowance and everything else. The members are on call.
(06:42):
They're at the beck and call of the community that
they serve, and they want to make a difference in
that community. That's why they're there. That's why they want
to be there to serve. But it's overwhelming. It is
frustrating the level of crime that we see, not only
in these communities, also across the major centers and regional
centers as well as the Northern Territory. Our members can't
keep up, and they've been telling that for a long time,
(07:02):
and this highlights the reasons why we can't keep up
and highlight the dangers that the faces that were their
police officers when they can't and they feel.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Helpless, Finny, I mean to any of those officers listening
this morning who may need some additional support, I mean,
can they reach out to the association.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Association. There's also employee support services through the Northern Churchy
Police Force. There's psychiatric professional advice of well, there's also
obviously peer support offices as well. But my main thing
is if you are struggling, speak up. It's okay not
to be okay, and I passed that on to a
lot of our members whenever I speak to them, it's
okay seek advice. Someone's been through the similar position what
(07:42):
you're going through, and they'll have an understanding of what
you're going through. So the main thing is speak out,
reach out for help. We're all here to help. We're
a brotherhood, we're a sisterhood. We're a tight family. The
Blue Family is there to support you and make sure
you do please.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Fantastic advice, I think, Phinny, really good advice to anybody
out there listening this morning. Before I let you go,
and I know it is such a tough time at
the moment for the force, but before I let you go,
we have been speaking a lot about some of the
increased crime in Catherine and in Alice Springs. At the moment,
I know it's not isolated even for us up here
in Darwin. It's something we've been talking about make water
(08:20):
officers telling you at the moment, the.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Officers are telling us that there is an increase in
population into our regional centers. This is nothing unusual, Cadie.
We see that this time of the year, our communities
come into town more than around with the show circuits
come into town. There's obviously shopping, there's obviously royalties that
come in this time of the year. For our remote communities,
they come into for extended periods and which puts extra
pressure on the resources we've got in those major centers. Again,
(08:46):
it's a bit of a respite for our officers that
work in the remote community. But unfortunately our remote communities
are heavily understaffed at the moment, so they're getting a
reprieve with the extra population leaving those communities, but also
places extra burden on our members within those regional centers.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
What do you make of this discussion? And we just
spoke to the opposition leader Selena Yubo about this about
the potential of the BDR being introduced into licensed venues,
so not just take away out let's, but license venues
as well.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I've yeah again, Katie, this is something we've requested for
a long time. There's a bit of a sort of
a loophole where they can't buy takeaway and they prefer
to drink in the street where they're going to licensed
premises where they can consume an inordinate amount of alcohol,
become intoxicatd then create the same scenario. I know, it's
supposed to be a much more controlled environment. We applaud
any restrictions that can be placed. We see alcohol fuel violence.
(09:37):
Alcohol fuel violence is one of the biggest key indicators
of crime right across the Northern Territory and our members
get quite frankly sick of it, dealing with intoxicated people left,
right and cent. If that wasn't there, and we've seen
that during other times when alcohol is not available, the
downturn in police response jobs is huge, and we notice
that our members notice that and they applaud any implications
(10:00):
of alcohol restrictions put in place.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Well. Nathan Finn, President of the Northern Territory Police Association,
I really appreciate your time this morning. I can see
you know, I can see the emotion in you today.
It's going to be a tough time for you guys
with this coronial. I'm thinking of everybody involved, particularly Mickey
D's family, friends, all of you guys. So thank you
(10:23):
very much for joining us this morning. It's much appreciated.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Thank you, Katti, and obviously as just before we go,
thank you to the men and women. It's a very
tough week for a lot of us involved going through
the evidence, listening to the evidence involved. All I can
say is look after each other. We're there for each other,
We're there for Meggy D and to make sure there's
answers being made and people are held accountable for those decisions.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Good on your finny. Thank you mate, I appreciate your
time as always,
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