Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But we just spoke to the Chief Minister about the
appointment of Martin Dole to the Northern Territory Police Commissioner position.
Now the police associations raise concerns about the process to
appoint mister Doll. Nathan Finn, the President, joining me in
the studio right now.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Good morning to your Finny.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Good morning Katy, and good morning to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Thanks so much for your time. Now, Finny, you've been
really clear you respect Commissioner Doll and his capability to lead,
but you've said the appointment process completely lack transparency. What
message does that send do you think to rank and
file officers?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
It gets the confused. We've just seen the inquiry come
down to the blow report, Katie, where obviously there's been
issues raised with the senior eqruitment within the Northern Territory
Police Force. We congratulate obviously Martin Dolan being appointed as
the fifteenth commission of the Northern Territory Police Force. He's
respected long serving member across the force. But the appointment process,
as you said, or the lack of one, raises serious
(00:53):
concerns about the transparency, accountability and public trust in the
Northern Territory Police Force.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I mean I sort of asked the chief about this earlier.
She said he's absolutely the best person for the job.
She doesn't want somebody from into state. I mean, what
do you say to that.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
It's not about the Southern that's Katie. It's about what
happens if there's another person in the Northern Teritory Police
Force executive that wanted to put their hand up and
to be considered for the best. Obviously, Commissioner of Police,
they haven't had the opportunity. They've missed out on that opportunity,
and this is something the Senior Ecruitment the inquiry looked
at into it. But again we've done an inquiry for
the sake of an inquiry. We've a highlighted that the
(01:29):
mister Justice Blow didn't have the correct legislation to conduct
the inquiry under we give that advice at the earliest
possible opportunities were rejected by the government and now we've
seen an inquiry which really delivers nothing and changes nothing.
There's no line in the sand being drawn. Katy. It's
frustrating our members more and more that this type of
behavior gets to basically continue and not be addressed.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So, Finny, what are officers saying to you, because I've
got some officers saying to me, look, I'm really happy
that Martin Doll has been appointed to the police commissioner role.
You know, I've always got there's always a mixed bag.
But what I also saying to you, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
There's some members that are happy. There's some members that
are frustrated as well. But there's members that are really
frustrated that we haven't actually addressed the whole situation about
the senior recruitment posts in the Northern Territory Police Force.
I'm happy to work with mister Doll. I know mister Dole.
I've worked with him for the last seven months while
he's been the acting Commissioner. We have our points of disagreement,
we always will, but he also he's got a strong
focus on the members and making sure the members are
(02:25):
supported the best possible way they can.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
What do you make of the timing. I mean, it
was just a couple of days after accepting the blow
inquiry recommendations. Do you think that that move undermines the
government's own commitments to reform and accountability?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
It undermines the whole process, Caady, We've waited nearly seven
months for inquiry to be conducted that delivered no real
findings or no real changes to the Northern Territory Police
Force and how they do it. There's policies that need
to be written, there's recommendations that have been endorsed to
be progressed. They haven't been progressed. We're still seeing these
recruitment processes go through where there's speculation about how people
are geting reported. So there's direct information and direct evidence
(03:03):
suggested in that report that there was untoward things going
on in reason the senior recruitment within the organization. What
have they done to deal with that? What have they
done with the people that actually complicit with that in
the recruitment processes. We need to deal with that to
restore the faith that we have as police officers when
in the executive and also for the executive to have
that faith in what we do as police officers on
the road.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So at the moment, do you believe that rank and
file police officers are you know, are unhappy with the
way in which the government is managing you know what
they've said these recommendations obviously of the blow reporter, they
are unhappy with what's going on.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Definitely, Cattie and the majority of the people who have
contacted are unhappy with how it's played out. There's a
lot of people that have been affected by and there's
a lot of people have been promoted under this system
as well. But when there's identified failures within that recruitment
a process and they haven't been addressed and they keep
allowed to be continue, that's just basically endorsing what's been
done in the past to go ahead and just keep
doing what you're doing, and that's not something we want
(04:00):
to see. We want to make sure that all air
recruitment processes are well above board. And again with the
Commissioner's role, if they had to advertise a position and
mister Dole was the most meritorious candidate and he was appointed,
the speculation wouldn't be against mister Doll. I congratulate mister
Dole for his appointment as a position where he's been
offered a position as the Commissioner of Police. He'd be
(04:20):
stupid to reject that.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Katie Finni, do you think that you know, taking all
of that into account what you've said to me this morning,
do you think that Commissioner Doll is going to be
able to work with officers to bring the force and
the community forward. You know, do you think he's going
to if there are all these concerns sort of floating around,
and if people are worried about the way in which
that appointment process happened and they feel as though, you know,
(04:44):
the blow report didn't go deep enough, do you think
he's going to be able to bring the force forward?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I really hope so. And that's again going to be
played out about his leadership style, his leadership performance there.
I know a lot of the executive are upset about
what's going on in the past, and he's got the
role now to manage that executive and to work forward.
Do I believe that Alice Springs is the best possible
position for him, knowing that the rest of his police
force executive are based in Dalt.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I don't believe so, But yeah, right, so do you
reckon he should be based here?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Again, that's a decision for government, a decision for himself
of how he's going to manage it. I'd much rather
have direct relationships with your other executive and how are
you going to manage it? And how are you going
to lead a police force? And to be working in
that same location.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
So you reckon be better off based here'll.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Be better off a lot better. Again, that's a decision
for himself and the decision for government where they're going
to be based. I know it's obviously a political decision
to place him in Alice Springs, given what goes on
in Alice Springs every summer coming up.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I was thinking it may be like, for the first
time something that's actually a good decision in the sense
that we've had such bad crime in Alice Springs, you know,
keeping him there, whether it would keep it real front
and center front of mind.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
I'd like to say that the Commissioner of Police being
placed in a position in a certain location would have
an effect on that, but Katie, the reality is that
the members of the police force that do the job,
Dane and are I'm not going to see the commission
rolling around in a police fan arresting people, but they
do have that effect and do obviously attract different resources
to those locations as well.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Finny, why didn't you take part, Like why didn't the
association take part in the inquiry? If you're sort of
so worried about it not going deep enough and not
delving deeply enough into the concerns that have been raised,
why not take part's.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
That's a question and the government's been quite critical of
the NTPA in respect to not making it obviously an
inquiry a review into the inquiry. We've got a lot
of members that we represent, Katie and we represent the
panel members that sat on these panels. We represent the
people that were successful, we represent the people that were
unsuccessful as well. It was clearly highlighted within the Blow
report the reasons why the NTPA would not provide obviously
(06:47):
a submission into the inquiry, and that's outlined by Justice
Blow himself and the understanding of why we didn't make it.
But again the political point scoring that's come across from
the government and also Minister Cahill on the week that
was on Yours having a crack at the NTPA because
it didn't make a submission to the inquiry. We assisted
a lot of members in relation to the evidence so
(07:07):
they provided to the inquiry. To be told that they
could investigate that was very upsetting for those members and
very concerning for the police force going forward.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I got to say at the moment there seems to
be a real rift between the Northern Territory Government and
the Northern Territory Police Association.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Now that's not uncommon.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I mean we very often unions don't particularly like governments
at different times, Like that's not unusual. But do you
think that there is a way that that can be
mended so that you guys can have a constructive dialogue.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah, definitely, Caddie, if they stop canceling many is the
first time I seen in the Chief Miness for a
little bit this week walking out of the leaving out
of the studio, So it was good to have a
quick conversation with out there.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You were meant to meet with her last week.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I meant to it last week the day before.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
The only know that because we wanted you on the
radio the same.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Time the day before the Commissioner was being announced. Again,
their conversations that could take place with us and they're
reasoning why they're making these decisions, so we can actually
beyond support of the government when making these decisions and
we can provide those concerns where it needs to be
provided before these decisions are made.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So you would like to sit down with the Chief
Minister who is also the Police Minister. You'd like to
sit down and have a constructive discussion with her.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Definitely, and that's regular, Katie. We've asked for it for
a long time. Again, the government keeps making their own
decisions based on whatever information they have or their senior
advises what decisions they're making. The political spin that's been
put on this about the NTPA not making sumission to
inquiry was absolutely was low. It was a very low
class and I'm not going to entertain that, Katie. I'm
there to provide honest, truthful feedback from our members to
(08:37):
the government, also to the executive, the Northern Territory Police
Force and to represent our members. And unfortunately the truth hurts, Katie.
And when the truth is being told about how our
members feel, they don't like that and they don't like
to be embarrassed by that. Our members are truthful. They're
doing the best possible job that they can do out
on the street, and they want to be supported by
the government to do that to fix their laur and
L portfolio, crime portfolio.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
That they're Hey, Finny, just a quick one.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I know this is totally not un notice, but last
week I was talking to the Deputy Corrections Commissioner and
he said that the watch houses like that, We've got
a heap less prisoners in those watch houses at the moment.
Just how are things going from the associations perspective.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Definitely, we've seen a reduction in the number of corrections
prisoners in our watchhouses. I believe we're down to fall
last week that was the last time I had a
discussion with our watchhouse here and in Darwen and believe
that the numbers have reduced to nearly nothing in all
of Springs as well. So it's a good result for
the police force and the stress and management of our
custody sections to make sure that keeps going forward, and
(09:36):
we know that's going to peak at certain points in time,
but we want to make sure that we have the
health and safety of our staff members as a priority
in those in Does it.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Make a big difference for you guys then or for
members then not having to, you know, to manage those
those watch houses as well in terms of the prisoners.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah, definitely. And it has that flow on effect as
well onto the road that where you know that the
facility is full, you making inquiries whether you can take
a person into that. It relieves that pressure as well
that we can go on policing and doing the role
that we need to do Katie, to make sure the
community is safe.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Well, Nathan Finn, President of the Northern Territory Police Association,
always appreciate your time. You brushed me the last couple
of weeks, mate. I was thinking, oh, no, I'm getting
brushed like the Chief Finister is brushing you.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Definitely not, Katie. And been very busy times, and I've
been away and been very unwell unfortunately, and when you're
traveling at one hundred and operating one hundred and twenty
percent for so long, for so many times, you just
need some time to yourself and get out of the office.
And had a beautiful team looking after the office whiles away,
so they've done a great job. But back in the
role now and backfighting for what our members need in
(10:42):
the Northern Church of Police force and to make sure
that they're best supported. And I always have those conversations
no matter where I am. And yeah, you can always
tease me, don't wipe me up, Katie, you don't want
to get me started.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Well, Finny, thank you for joining us back in the
studio and no doubt we'll talk to you again very soon.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Let's hope so thank you, thank you, thanks so much.
But we just spoke to the Chief Minister about the
appointment of Martin Dole to the Northern Territory Police Commissioner position.
Now the police associations raise concerns about the process to
appoint mister Doll. Nathan Finn, the President, joining me in
the studio right now.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Good morning to your Finny.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Good morning Katy, and good morning to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Thanks so much for your time. Now, Finny, you've been
really clear you respect Commissioner Doll and his capability to lead,
but you've said the appointment process completely lack transparency. What
message does that send do you think to rank and
file officers?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
It gets the confused. We've just seen the inquiry come
down to the blow report, Katie, where obviously there's been
issues raised with the senior eqruitment within the Northern Territory
Police Force. We congratulate obviously Martin Dolan being appointed as
the fifteenth commission of the Northern Territory Police Force. He's
respected long serving member across the force. But the appointment process,
as you said, or the lack of one, raises serious
(00:53):
concerns about the transparency, accountability and public trust in the
Northern Territory Police Force.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I mean I sort of asked the chief about this earlier.
She said he's absolutely the best person for the job.
She doesn't want somebody from into state. I mean, what
do you say to that.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
It's not about the Southern that's Katie. It's about what
happens if there's another person in the Northern Teritory Police
Force executive that wanted to put their hand up and
to be considered for the best. Obviously, Commissioner of Police,
they haven't had the opportunity. They've missed out on that opportunity,
and this is something the Senior Ecruitment the inquiry looked
at into it. But again we've done an inquiry for
the sake of an inquiry. We've a highlighted that the
(01:29):
mister Justice Blow didn't have the correct legislation to conduct
the inquiry under we give that advice at the earliest
possible opportunities were rejected by the government and now we've
seen an inquiry which really delivers nothing and changes nothing.
There's no line in the sand being drawn. Katy. It's
frustrating our members more and more that this type of
behavior gets to basically continue and not be addressed.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So, Finny, what are officers saying to you, because I've
got some officers saying to me, look, I'm really happy
that Martin Doll has been appointed to the police commissioner role.
You know, I've always got there's always a mixed bag.
But what I also saying to you, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
There's some members that are happy. There's some members that
are frustrated as well. But there's members that are really
frustrated that we haven't actually addressed the whole situation about
the senior recruitment posts in the Northern Territory Police Force.
I'm happy to work with mister Doll. I know mister Dole.
I've worked with him for the last seven months while
he's been the acting Commissioner. We have our points of disagreement,
we always will, but he also he's got a strong
focus on the members and making sure the members are
(02:25):
supported the best possible way they can.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
What do you make of the timing. I mean, it
was just a couple of days after accepting the blow
inquiry recommendations. Do you think that that move undermines the
government's own commitments to reform and accountability?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
It undermines the whole process, Caady, We've waited nearly seven
months for inquiry to be conducted that delivered no real
findings or no real changes to the Northern Territory Police
Force and how they do it. There's policies that need
to be written, there's recommendations that have been endorsed to
be progressed. They haven't been progressed. We're still seeing these
recruitment processes go through where there's speculation about how people
are geting reported. So there's direct information and direct evidence
(03:03):
suggested in that report that there was untoward things going
on in reason the senior recruitment within the organization. What
have they done to deal with that? What have they
done with the people that actually complicit with that in
the recruitment processes. We need to deal with that to
restore the faith that we have as police officers when
in the executive and also for the executive to have
that faith in what we do as police officers on
the road.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So at the moment, do you believe that rank and
file police officers are you know, are unhappy with the
way in which the government is managing you know what
they've said these recommendations obviously of the blow reporter, they
are unhappy with what's going on.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Definitely, Cattie and the majority of the people who have
contacted are unhappy with how it's played out. There's a
lot of people that have been affected by and there's
a lot of people have been promoted under this system
as well. But when there's identified failures within that recruitment
a process and they haven't been addressed and they keep
allowed to be continue, that's just basically endorsing what's been
done in the past to go ahead and just keep
doing what you're doing, and that's not something we want
(04:00):
to see. We want to make sure that all air
recruitment processes are well above board. And again with the
Commissioner's role, if they had to advertise a position and
mister Dole was the most meritorious candidate and he was appointed,
the speculation wouldn't be against mister Doll. I congratulate mister
Dole for his appointment as a position where he's been
offered a position as the Commissioner of Police. He'd be
(04:20):
stupid to reject that.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Katie Finni, do you think that you know, taking all
of that into account what you've said to me this morning,
do you think that Commissioner Doll is going to be
able to work with officers to bring the force and
the community forward. You know, do you think he's going
to if there are all these concerns sort of floating around,
and if people are worried about the way in which
that appointment process happened and they feel as though, you know,
(04:44):
the blow report didn't go deep enough, do you think
he's going to be able to bring the force forward?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I really hope so. And that's again going to be
played out about his leadership style, his leadership performance there.
I know a lot of the executive are upset about
what's going on in the past, and he's got the
role now to manage that executive and to work forward.
Do I believe that Alice Springs is the best possible
position for him, knowing that the rest of his police
force executive are based in Dalt.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I don't believe so, But yeah, right, so do you
reckon he should be based here?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Again, that's a decision for government, a decision for himself
of how he's going to manage it. I'd much rather
have direct relationships with your other executive and how are
you going to manage it? And how are you going
to lead a police force? And to be working in
that same location.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
So you reckon be better off based here'll.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Be better off a lot better. Again, that's a decision
for himself and the decision for government where they're going
to be based. I know it's obviously a political decision
to place him in Alice Springs, given what goes on
in Alice Springs every summer coming up.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I was thinking it may be like, for the first
time something that's actually a good decision in the sense
that we've had such bad crime in Alice Springs, you know,
keeping him there, whether it would keep it real front
and center front of mind.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
I'd like to say that the Commissioner of Police being
placed in a position in a certain location would have
an effect on that, but Katie, the reality is that
the members of the police force that do the job,
Dane and are I'm not going to see the commission
rolling around in a police fan arresting people, but they
do have that effect and do obviously attract different resources
to those locations as well.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Finny, why didn't you take part, Like why didn't the
association take part in the inquiry? If you're sort of
so worried about it not going deep enough and not
delving deeply enough into the concerns that have been raised,
why not take part's.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
That's a question and the government's been quite critical of
the NTPA in respect to not making it obviously an
inquiry a review into the inquiry. We've got a lot
of members that we represent, Katie and we represent the
panel members that sat on these panels. We represent the
people that were successful, we represent the people that were
unsuccessful as well. It was clearly highlighted within the Blow
report the reasons why the NTPA would not provide obviously
(06:47):
a submission into the inquiry, and that's outlined by Justice
Blow himself and the understanding of why we didn't make it.
But again the political point scoring that's come across from
the government and also Minister Cahill on the week that
was on Yours having a crack at the NTPA because
it didn't make a submission to the inquiry. We assisted
a lot of members in relation to the evidence so
(07:07):
they provided to the inquiry. To be told that they
could investigate that was very upsetting for those members and
very concerning for the police force going forward.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I got to say at the moment there seems to
be a real rift between the Northern Territory Government and
the Northern Territory Police Association.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Now that's not uncommon.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I mean we very often unions don't particularly like governments
at different times, Like that's not unusual. But do you
think that there is a way that that can be
mended so that you guys can have a constructive dialogue.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah, definitely, Caddie, if they stop canceling many is the
first time I seen in the Chief Miness for a
little bit this week walking out of the leaving out
of the studio, So it was good to have a
quick conversation with out there.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You were meant to meet with her last week.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
I meant to it last week the day before.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
The only know that because we wanted you on the
radio the same.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Time the day before the Commissioner was being announced. Again,
their conversations that could take place with us and they're
reasoning why they're making these decisions, so we can actually
beyond support of the government when making these decisions and
we can provide those concerns where it needs to be
provided before these decisions are made.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So you would like to sit down with the Chief
Minister who is also the Police Minister. You'd like to
sit down and have a constructive discussion with her.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Definitely, and that's regular, Katie. We've asked for it for
a long time. Again, the government keeps making their own
decisions based on whatever information they have or their senior
advises what decisions they're making. The political spin that's been
put on this about the NTPA not making sumission to
inquiry was absolutely was low. It was a very low
class and I'm not going to entertain that, Katie. I'm
there to provide honest, truthful feedback from our members to
(08:37):
the government, also to the executive, the Northern Territory Police
Force and to represent our members. And unfortunately the truth hurts, Katie.
And when the truth is being told about how our
members feel, they don't like that and they don't like
to be embarrassed by that. Our members are truthful. They're
doing the best possible job that they can do out
on the street, and they want to be supported by
the government to do that to fix their laur and
L portfolio, crime portfolio.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
That they're Hey, Finny, just a quick one.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
I know this is totally not un notice, but last
week I was talking to the Deputy Corrections Commissioner and
he said that the watch houses like that, We've got
a heap less prisoners in those watch houses at the moment.
Just how are things going from the associations perspective.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Definitely, we've seen a reduction in the number of corrections
prisoners in our watchhouses. I believe we're down to fall
last week that was the last time I had a
discussion with our watchhouse here and in Darwen and believe
that the numbers have reduced to nearly nothing in all
of Springs as well. So it's a good result for
the police force and the stress and management of our
custody sections to make sure that keeps going forward, and
(09:36):
we know that's going to peak at certain points in time,
but we want to make sure that we have the
health and safety of our staff members as a priority
in those in Does it.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Make a big difference for you guys then or for
members then not having to, you know, to manage those
those watch houses as well in terms of the prisoners.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah, definitely. And it has that flow on effect as
well onto the road that where you know that the
facility is full, you making inquiries whether you can take
a person into that. It relieves that pressure as well
that we can go on policing and doing the role
that we need to do Katie, to make sure the
community is safe.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Well, Nathan Finn, President of the Northern Territory Police Association,
always appreciate your time. You brushed me the last couple
of weeks, mate. I was thinking, oh, no, I'm getting
brushed like the Chief Finister is brushing you.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Definitely not, Katie. And been very busy times, and I've
been away and been very unwell unfortunately, and when you're
traveling at one hundred and operating one hundred and twenty
percent for so long, for so many times, you just
need some time to yourself and get out of the office.
And had a beautiful team looking after the office whiles away,
so they've done a great job. But back in the
role now and backfighting for what our members need in
(10:42):
the Northern Church of Police force and to make sure
that they're best supported. And I always have those conversations
no matter where I am. And yeah, you can always
tease me, don't wipe me up, Katie, you don't want
to get me started.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Well, Finny, thank you for joining us back in the
studio and no doubt we'll talk to you again very soon.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Let's hope so thank you, thank you, thanks so much.
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