Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We know that many Australians are facing rising costs of living,
but Territorians are being hit especially hard. A recent report
highlighting that people in the Northern Territory are facing some
of the highest cost of living pressures in the country
with steep rises in rent. We know that there's always
those rises in groceries, utilities and other essentials. Now joining
(00:21):
me in the studio to talk a little more about
this ant cost CEO Sally Sievers. Good morning to you, Sally, Yeah,
good morning Katie, Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now,
just how tough are Territorians doing it at the moment?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, no, So we do what are called cost of
living analysis every six months across the NT and so
this week for Anti Poverty Week, we focused on housing,
transport and electricity costs and so it's really clear that
in the NT, yes, there's a really big cost of
(00:57):
living pressures, but in fact that for people who are
on fixed and low incomes, it's just extreme and they're
bearing the burden of what's happening in that space.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Talk to me a little bit more about the housing
and you know just how expensive it is for people
when it comes to housing, but also the impact. I
suppose that a shortage of housing has yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
No, So so two aspects there. One is that unlike
the rest of Australia, we have many more people renting,
So about half of the Northern Territory population will rent,
and so that's one significant difference. And as you said,
we're the second highest rent in Australia, just after New
South Wales, which is phenomenal. That's wild.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, small jurisdiction like the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, And so some of the stories and the analysis
that have been made is just how few places would
be affordable safe for pensioners or people on other income supports.
And so even on the way here, I just ran
into Sushira from and she gave some context to the
(02:05):
data that's in this report that in fact, actually there
isn't a one bedroom unit across the whole of the
Northern Territory that a pensioner on the pension would be
able to afford without being in housing stress. And so
housing stress means when you pay more than thirty percent
of your income on housing. So a pensioner in Alice
(02:26):
Springs would pay something like forty six percent of their
income and then have something like about two hundred and
eighty dollars left a week for everything else.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So pretty much strame feel pretty sad because then I think, well,
then people are going without in other ways, right like
then you're having a cut cost on things like food,
non near electricity and other other things.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Or so, just to link into your earlier story about
the heat wave today, imagine that you're a pensioner and
you're outing which other suburban Darwin or in Central Australia,
and you're trying to deal with the heat of today,
and you know that if you put that air conditioner on,
what the implications will be for your electricity bill. And
we know in that electricity space that you know that
(03:09):
in T's electricity tariffs are going up and so we
will feel that impact. There is some still some commonwealth
benefits that are ameliorating that, but the tariff for power
in the Northern Territory is increasing.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And I mean you touched on some of these drivers,
but through the work that you've done, what are the
key drivers behind the disproportionately high costs that territory in space?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
So in relation to the housing market, we actually don't
have enough supply of social and affordable housing and so
that's you know, why people have to go to and
work in the in the private rental market. And so
we actually know that there are something like five and
a half thousand people on the waiting list. The waiting
(03:54):
list means that people wait ten years. And you know,
the story that's set out in the Cost of Living
is that you know, you might apply for social housing
when your childs are toddler, but you are unlikely to
get into social housing until your child is entering high school.
So there are one hundred and seventy so there's yeah,
there's twenty eight people applying for each of the houses
(04:16):
which are currently available in that space. So we need
more stock, more stock in the social and affordable housing space.
And then you know, obviously in the rental space there
can be some reforms to the Residential Tenancy Act, which
actually you know, for the rest of Australia you're only
allowed to put the rent up every twelve months. In
the Northern Territory it's still every six months. So how
(04:40):
as a family do you plan for those increases if
they're every six months, whereas you've got a much better
chance of planning for increases if they're every twelve months.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
In terms of the social housing wait list, I mean
I've been on the anti government website, oh did it
about two weeks ago, just to give our listeners some content.
Those wait times are absolutely astronomical.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, And so it's about actually, you know, doing things
like having when there's land releases, having a percentage of
that land and when there's a development set aside for
social and affordable housing. And so it's an in t
shelter idea that there's zones and protected zones and so
that when you do a development, you actually commit to
(05:27):
having that space available, so that in fact, actually we're
working towards having enough social and affordable housing.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Sally, what are some of the stories that you hear
from people living in the Northern Territory, you know, some
of those lived experiences I guess behind the numbers because
for a lot of us, you know, if we're in
a potentially if we're in the fortunate position of having
our own home or you know, being able to pay
our bills each month, we may not really have that context.
(05:56):
So what are some of those lived experiences that you
really hear about?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, So one that I'm not sure whether your listeners
are aware of, but lots of houses in the non territories,
so in remote communities, but also in public housing in
urban settings, those families are on what are called prepaid
meters and so what happens for those people is frequently
(06:20):
there's not enough money on the card and the power
runs out. And so the statistics from last time is
there something like seventy nine thousand involuntary disconnections for people.
So you imagine you're in Darwin today and your power
card runs out. What happens to the food that's in
the fridge, what happens to your medications that need to
(06:42):
be refrigerated. If you've got children, what about you know,
where are they going to sleep comfortably so they can
hop up to go to school tomorrow? And so similarly
you know that that in Alice Springs with those prepaid meters,
we know that the average disconnection time is eleven and
a half hour, so people are without power. Can you
(07:02):
imagine what that would mean for the food that's in
your fridge, what it will mean for medications? You know,
you know, if the children are having to do homework,
there's no access to Wi Fi or to charge your
mobile phone or to participate in the community. That's that's
the most extreme sort of version that happens in the
Northern Territory. And it's very different from the situation that
(07:25):
you and I and are the pensions might be in
where we get the bill and then we can apply
to power and water for hardship provisions to pay off
that debt or have other things put in place. But
people who are on those prepaid meters, they don't get
access to any of that, and they pay a higher
tariff for their power.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah. Right, that's really interesting, you know, in something I
guess that, like you said, a lot of people would
not be aware of, in terms of, you know, what
we can do to try to you know, I guess
to try and make some inroads in this space. Are
there you know, are there different levers that can be
locally or federally to try and make some in roads here. Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
So in the fact sheets that we've put out and
they're on Anti Costs website, we always put the solutions.
It's sort of like my approach to social justice in
the Northern Territory journally, don't raise a problem unless you
can come up with it. And so in that space
about people having more income. You know, the typical one
is at the federal level just raising the rate. So
(08:25):
what we would all agree, Katie and all your listeners
would agree is that every territory and should be able
to afford the basics and on the current sort of
income support, particularly job seeker and youth allowance, people just
cannot afford the basics. And so that's a federal ask.
At a local ask, we're asking for things like the
Concession scheme which operates to be extended out to people
(08:49):
who are on other income support payments and that to hurt.
But also when you're building this social and community housing,
to build it to the best and so that it's
situated on the block so it gets the breeze, so
that it has good insulation, double glazing for the glass,
maybe it has solar on the top, so that people
actually aren't incurring those really high electricity costs. So you know, obviously,
(09:15):
with anything, prevention is better than having to deal with
the power costs down the track. So if we build
our social and affordable housing to a really high you know,
to the actual national standard it's a six star rating,
then you know, people who are in public and social
housing wouldn't incur those you know, extreme costs in a
(09:38):
concrete box.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, it makes it very hot, doesn't it. You know,
and then you, like you said, you know, then your
electricity bills going up higher or certainly are you using
more electricity which is having an impact? Look, I think
it's it's a discussion that always needs to be had.
I really appreciate you joining me in the studio this morning.
Sally Sever's CEO of NT Costs. Thank you so much
(10:01):
for your time. But if anybody listening this morning is
after that bit further info, they can go to the
NT Costs website.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Can't and the fact sheets are there and they've got
lovely graphs, a fantastic yeah, thank you, good stuff. Thank you,
We know that many Australians are facing rising costs of living,
but Territorians are being hit especially hard. A recent report
highlighting that people in the Northern Territory are facing some
of the highest cost of living pressures in the country
with steep rises in rent. We know that there's always
those rises in groceries, utilities and other essentials. Now joining
(00:21):
me in the studio to talk a little more about
this ant cost CEO Sally Sievers. Good morning to you, Sally, Yeah,
good morning Katie, Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now,
just how tough are Territorians doing it at the moment?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, no, So we do what are called cost of
living analysis every six months across the NT and so
this week for Anti Poverty Week, we focused on housing,
transport and electricity costs and so it's really clear that
in the NT, yes, there's a really big cost of
(00:57):
living pressures, but in fact that for people who are
on fixed and low incomes, it's just extreme and they're
bearing the burden of what's happening in that space.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Talk to me a little bit more about the housing
and you know just how expensive it is for people
when it comes to housing, but also the impact. I
suppose that a shortage of housing has yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
No, So so two aspects there. One is that unlike
the rest of Australia, we have many more people renting,
So about half of the Northern Territory population will rent,
and so that's one significant difference. And as you said,
we're the second highest rent in Australia, just after New
South Wales, which is phenomenal. That's wild.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, small jurisdiction like the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah, And so some of the stories and the analysis
that have been made is just how few places would
be affordable safe for pensioners or people on other income supports.
And so even on the way here, I just ran
into Sushira from and she gave some context to the
(02:05):
data that's in this report that in fact, actually there
isn't a one bedroom unit across the whole of the
Northern Territory that a pensioner on the pension would be
able to afford without being in housing stress. And so
housing stress means when you pay more than thirty percent
of your income on housing. So a pensioner in Alice
(02:26):
Springs would pay something like forty six percent of their
income and then have something like about two hundred and
eighty dollars left a week for everything else.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So pretty much strame feel pretty sad because then I think, well,
then people are going without in other ways, right like
then you're having a cut cost on things like food,
non near electricity and other other things.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Or so, just to link into your earlier story about
the heat wave today, imagine that you're a pensioner and
you're outing which other suburban Darwin or in Central Australia,
and you're trying to deal with the heat of today,
and you know that if you put that air conditioner on,
what the implications will be for your electricity bill. And
we know in that electricity space that you know that
(03:09):
in T's electricity tariffs are going up and so we
will feel that impact. There is some still some commonwealth
benefits that are ameliorating that, but the tariff for power
in the Northern Territory is increasing.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
And I mean you touched on some of these drivers,
but through the work that you've done, what are the
key drivers behind the disproportionately high costs that territory in space?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
So in relation to the housing market, we actually don't
have enough supply of social and affordable housing and so
that's you know, why people have to go to and
work in the in the private rental market. And so
we actually know that there are something like five and
a half thousand people on the waiting list. The waiting
(03:54):
list means that people wait ten years. And you know,
the story that's set out in the Cost of Living
is that you know, you might apply for social housing
when your childs are toddler, but you are unlikely to
get into social housing until your child is entering high school.
So there are one hundred and seventy so there's yeah,
there's twenty eight people applying for each of the houses
(04:16):
which are currently available in that space. So we need
more stock, more stock in the social and affordable housing space.
And then you know, obviously in the rental space there
can be some reforms to the Residential Tenancy Act, which
actually you know, for the rest of Australia you're only
allowed to put the rent up every twelve months. In
the Northern Territory it's still every six months. So how
(04:40):
as a family do you plan for those increases if
they're every six months, whereas you've got a much better
chance of planning for increases if they're every twelve months.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
In terms of the social housing wait list, I mean
I've been on the anti government website, oh did it
about two weeks ago, just to give our listeners some content.
Those wait times are absolutely astronomical.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, And so it's about actually, you know, doing things
like having when there's land releases, having a percentage of
that land and when there's a development set aside for
social and affordable housing. And so it's an in t
shelter idea that there's zones and protected zones and so
that when you do a development, you actually commit to
(05:27):
having that space available, so that in fact, actually we're
working towards having enough social and affordable housing.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Sally, what are some of the stories that you hear
from people living in the Northern Territory, you know, some
of those lived experiences I guess behind the numbers because
for a lot of us, you know, if we're in
a potentially if we're in the fortunate position of having
our own home or you know, being able to pay
our bills each month, we may not really have that context.
(05:56):
So what are some of those lived experiences that you
really hear about?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, So one that I'm not sure whether your listeners
are aware of, but lots of houses in the non territories,
so in remote communities, but also in public housing in
urban settings, those families are on what are called prepaid
meters and so what happens for those people is frequently
(06:20):
there's not enough money on the card and the power
runs out. And so the statistics from last time is
there something like seventy nine thousand involuntary disconnections for people.
So you imagine you're in Darwin today and your power
card runs out. What happens to the food that's in
the fridge, what happens to your medications that need to
(06:42):
be refrigerated. If you've got children, what about you know,
where are they going to sleep comfortably so they can
hop up to go to school tomorrow? And so similarly
you know that that in Alice Springs with those prepaid meters,
we know that the average disconnection time is eleven and
a half hour, so people are without power. Can you
(07:02):
imagine what that would mean for the food that's in
your fridge, what it will mean for medications? You know,
you know, if the children are having to do homework,
there's no access to Wi Fi or to charge your
mobile phone or to participate in the community. That's that's
the most extreme sort of version that happens in the
Northern Territory. And it's very different from the situation that
(07:25):
you and I and are the pensions might be in
where we get the bill and then we can apply
to power and water for hardship provisions to pay off
that debt or have other things put in place. But
people who are on those prepaid meters, they don't get
access to any of that, and they pay a higher
tariff for their power.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah. Right, that's really interesting, you know, in something I
guess that, like you said, a lot of people would
not be aware of, in terms of, you know, what
we can do to try to you know, I guess
to try and make some inroads in this space. Are
there you know, are there different levers that can be
locally or federally to try and make some in roads here. Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
So in the fact sheets that we've put out and
they're on Anti Costs website, we always put the solutions.
It's sort of like my approach to social justice in
the Northern Territory journally, don't raise a problem unless you
can come up with it. And so in that space
about people having more income. You know, the typical one
is at the federal level just raising the rate. So
(08:25):
what we would all agree, Katie and all your listeners
would agree is that every territory and should be able
to afford the basics and on the current sort of
income support, particularly job seeker and youth allowance, people just
cannot afford the basics. And so that's a federal ask.
At a local ask, we're asking for things like the
Concession scheme which operates to be extended out to people
(08:49):
who are on other income support payments and that to hurt.
But also when you're building this social and community housing,
to build it to the best and so that it's
situated on the block so it gets the breeze, so
that it has good insulation, double glazing for the glass,
maybe it has solar on the top, so that people
actually aren't incurring those really high electricity costs. So you know, obviously,
(09:15):
with anything, prevention is better than having to deal with
the power costs down the track. So if we build
our social and affordable housing to a really high you know,
to the actual national standard it's a six star rating,
then you know, people who are in public and social
housing wouldn't incur those you know, extreme costs in a
(09:38):
concrete box.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, it makes it very hot, doesn't it. You know,
and then you, like you said, you know, then your
electricity bills going up higher or certainly are you using
more electricity which is having an impact? Look, I think
it's it's a discussion that always needs to be had.
I really appreciate you joining me in the studio this morning.
Sally Sever's CEO of NT Costs. Thank you so much
(10:01):
for your time. But if anybody listening this morning is
after that bit further info, they can go to the
NT Costs website.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Can't and the fact sheets are there and they've got
lovely graphs, a fantastic yeah, thank you, good stuff. Thank you,
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