Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, as we know, there has been those shocking revelations
of racist awards in the Northern Territori's ICAC investigation into
allegations of racism within the TRG, one bearing the words
the most Sea Like Barbecue Ever, and the other is
titled the Noonguta Award with an image of an Aboriginal
man lying face down surrounded by beer cants. The commissioner,
(00:23):
the K Commissioner, Michael Richards, believes both are from within
the TRG from around two thousand and seven.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
As I understand now.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
The opposition leader Lea Finocchiaro joins me in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good morning to you, Leah.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Good wanting Katie, and to your listeners, Lea, what is.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Your reaction to these findings.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Certainly it's you know, it's it's definitely not good, Katie.
It's definitely not a good thing. But ultimately we're talking
about nearly twenty years ago. We know our police work
very very hard in every part of our community. There
are people who do the right thing and people who
do the wrong thing, and I just don't want this
to be something that really is dragging down our in
(00:59):
time police force. I know the IK Commissioner put out
a statement I think it was late last week that
said since twenty sixteen, he hadn't found any evidence of
this type of thing going forward. And so I just
want the territory police to know that we support them
and that I certainly do not believe in any way,
shape or form that this is systemic.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I mean, what do you think needs to happen though,
in an effort to rebuild the reputation to some within
the community, because you know, when it comes to relationships
with that regional people right now, a lot of what
they would be hearing that'd be quite mortified by.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I'm assuming.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
I'm sure you're right, Katie. I think the reality is
this was a very long time ago, though, and there's
no evidence that things like this are happening anymore. That
doesn't excuse the behavior, but I think context is really important.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
You know, twenty years ago, so going forward, you know,
we know our police, Like what.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Kind of context sort of makes it okay?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
No, No context makes it okay.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
I'm saying, like, when we talk about our police today,
we can't pretend like our police today are the same
police they were years ago.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
That's all I meant.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
No context around the actual awards and things like that. Okay,
so you know, what we know is that our police
work incredibly hard. We've got a fantastic force that is
out there trying to keep people safe, doing everything they
can with the limited resources they have. And so I
think again, it's just you know, the sooner all of
this can be brought to a close and findings made,
(02:23):
the better because it will allow our police, who work
very hard every single day, to move forward.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So do you think that they can be like or
do you think that there does need to be further
work done to try and build those relationships or do
you think that they're as fractured as.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
You know, as what some may believe.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
No, I don't think so that's certainly not the feedback
I get when I'm talking to Aboriginal people out on
community or when I'm talking to police. There are very
very close relationships out there, because of course, when you
have police working in community, you know it's a small place.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Everyone knows each other.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Those police are on call basically twenty four hours, seven
days a week.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
They're out there helping umpire the footy on the.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Weekend, and you know, everyone's living together. So I certainly
don't see this as being some sort of major rift
or divide. What I do think is that it should
all be concluded as swiftly as possible because this only further,
you know, causes a lot of you know, distress for
our police who are out there just trying to get
on with the job.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Now, I want to move along slightly. Last week, we
know that that curfew legislation passed in the Parliament and
some are questioning what kind of situations going to constitute
a curfew being called again? After things fled up in
Alice Springs. Now there was many large disturbances as we know,
involving weapons in Alice on the weekend. Multiple people were
injured and the car was set alight. Would you have
(03:43):
thought that this would be a situation where a curfew
was potentially called?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Absolutely, And it just reinforces how ridiculous this government is
being and trying to save face and look like they're
doing something on law and order. We just passed curfew
legislation and then this weekend we've had riding in the street, weapons,
cars set on fire and this government hasn't called a curfew.
And what's really important about piece of feel listeners to
(04:09):
understand about this curfew legislation is it doesn't create a consequence.
So again, we would have liked to see some sort
of referral pathways. If a young person continues to breach
the curfew and our police just have to keep dropping
them back over the imaginary line, we'd like to see
that a referral to a boot camp and certainly into
(04:30):
discussing with the family what's going on at home.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I guess a difficult situation at the moment.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Though. It's from my understanding with that legislation is it's
no longer the government that would call that curfew, it's
actually the Police Commissioner that will call that curfew. You
would think that he's probably hesitant to I mean to
some degree to really make that judgment call. The first
time ever, I know that the legislation has been passed
without putting words in Michael Murphy, the Commissioner's mouth.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Well, I think the reality is this Katie government was
having a very bad week two weeks ago in part
elament after their disastrous budget, and what they needed was
to change the conversation. So out of nowhere it came
curfew legislation, which I think they just thought up overnight.
There was never any intention to bring that to Parliament
in the last two weeks. And so what we're seeing
(05:14):
is policy on the run, which means probably the Police
Commissioner hasn't been briefed on how.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
To use his powers.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
And again we've got the government, you know, evil Lawla's
out there trying to talk tough and own all the
decisions of this government. Well, where was her direction to
the Police commissioner to implement the curfew.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
It wasn't there, and neither did the Police Minister.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
So this is a government really desperate to paint a
picture of Look at us. We've got curfew legislation, but
what's the point of it if it doesn't deliver a
consequence to the young person or actually get called in
the first place.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well, look, we have got Brent Potter on in around
twenty minutes or around ten minutes time, so we'll talk.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Further about that with him.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Now. Look, one area which has caused serious issues over
the Northern Territory, well right across the Northern Territory is
indeed alcohol. The government's moving to get alcohol management plans
developed for dry communities with social clubs being considered. Is
something is this something that the CLP supports. Well.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
The CLP has been a large supporter of social clubs
for all of time, Katie. We know their communities running
their own social clubs, having community control around alcohol, working
very very well. This is something that I think Territorians
assumed Labor were working on in the lead up to
the end.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Of Stronger Futures. But of course what we then saw
was Stronger Futures.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
We're told like right from then that it was something
that was on.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I mean, I will say though that I know that
the Labor Party will say to me, and this is
something that they've said in the past that when the
Coalition was in power federally that they certainly could have
signed orf on some of these different management plans in
remote communities and didn't.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So what do you say to.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
That, Oh, I say that, you know, blame shifting doesn't
advance the course.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
So at the end of the day, you've now got
Brent Potter coming out and saying, oh, yep, I'm getting
this done.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
There's forty seven we've got to do it faster.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Well, you've been in power for eight years and of
course nothing has happened. We know that Stronger futures ended
and the government had not started that.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Consultation with communities.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Now we're seeing, you know, we had to see stronger
futures brought back in after carnage and destruction and untold
damage to people's lives. And so now going forward, this government,
with three months to an election, is trying to somehow
process alcohol management plans, which is sending red flags up
for everyone, because of course, alcohol fueled violence has not
been something this government has been successful at addressing. In fact,
(07:38):
they've disempowered our police on alcohol and no one trusts
them to deliver.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Well, look, not everybody's obviously going to agree. I've got
a message that's just come through here or read part
of it. It says alcohol and community is God help
those poor women and kids, and it says, you know,
without a strong police presence, the community doesn't want to
have to deal with this.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
And you know they're.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Shaking their heads at alcohol being implemented in some remote
communities if you don't have a great enough police presence
to deal with the potential ramifications.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Sure, and with respect to your listener, I mean it's
not for people who don't live in those communities to
make decisions for that community. What we do need to do, though,
is make sure that the process is robust and that
it's not a few of the loudest people, that there's
well and truly a majority. I mean, I've heard the
number of sixty percent be bandied around. I think it
needs to be even higher than that, and there needs
(08:28):
to be responsible management. But at the end of the day,
alcohol is a legal product. People are undertaking very risky
behavior to come to town to access it, and why
shouldn't someone who's worked a long, hard day out in
peerl and Gimpia, wherever it might be, then go to
the pub for a couple of mid strength beers. It's
a salpiece plant in this space. We want to continue
(08:49):
those conversations with communities. It's entirely voluntary, but we know
it's worked really well for a very very long time
in many communities across the territory, and so this is
something we're very focused on. But equally, unlike labor, we
have measures to address demand for alcohol. So that's where
compulsory alcohol treatment comes in for chronically affected alcoholics. That's
(09:10):
why we will give police better powers to do with
public drinking and problem drunks and so it's not a
one solution. This is a suite of measures that are
going to drive down alcohol fuel violence across the territory.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Do you think that it will then in turn make
a difference where you won't see people traveling to town
centers like Alice, Spring, Starwin, even Catherine to get their
hands on alcohol.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
People will always travel, but I think we'll see a
lot less of it because and then we'll also see
a reduction in risky behaviors. For example, if people are
traveling one hundred kilometers to the nearest bottle shops, say,
and then they're drinking, and then they're driving, We've then
got risk on our road. So there's risk all in
every space that you move, there's risk. By ensuring that
(09:51):
people can walk from home, have a couple of drinks,
have a meal, socialize that you can have the police there,
you can have a family support their discussing issues. Communities
able to resolve a lot over a beer, which I
think a lot of your listeners would relate to that.
You know, you can get a lot done and you
can resolve a lot of issues. So it's definitely the
(10:12):
way forward. It doesn't answer all of the problems, but
of course, it's just one in a number of suite
of measures the COLP has all.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Right, Lea, there's quite a bit to still get through,
so I want to get cracking. The IKAK, in a
separate report, made no findings against the former Chief Minister
Michael Gunner, following investigations into three trips that he made
to remote communities on chartered flights during polling for the
twenty twenty election. Now, it is perplexing to most of
us reading that report that when you read through the
(10:40):
spending and what happened, well you know that there weren't
further findings. But what we do know is that the
Eyekak has obviously released quite an extensive report. Firstly, what
do you make of the fact that there was no
findings against the former Chief Minister and any of his staff.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
I think territory and is sort of wondering what's happened here.
It's taken a very long time.
Well, as we know, there has been those shocking revelations
of racist awards in the Northern Territori's ICAC investigation into
allegations of racism within the TRG, one bearing the words
the most Sea Like Barbecue Ever, and the other is
titled the Noonguta Award with an image of an Aboriginal
man lying face down surrounded by beer cants. The commissioner,
(00:23):
the K Commissioner, Michael Richards, believes both are from within
the TRG from around two thousand and seven.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
As I understand now.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
The opposition leader Lea Finocchiaro joins me in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good morning to you, Leah.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Good wanting Katie, and to your listeners, Lea, what is.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Your reaction to these findings.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Certainly it's you know, it's it's definitely not good, Katie.
It's definitely not a good thing. But ultimately we're talking
about nearly twenty years ago. We know our police work
very very hard in every part of our community. There
are people who do the right thing and people who
do the wrong thing, and I just don't want this
to be something that really is dragging down our in
(00:59):
time police force. I know the IK Commissioner put out
a statement I think it was late last week that
said since twenty sixteen, he hadn't found any evidence of
this type of thing going forward. And so I just
want the territory police to know that we support them
and that I certainly do not believe in any way,
shape or form that this is systemic.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I mean, what do you think needs to happen though,
in an effort to rebuild the reputation to some within
the community, because you know, when it comes to relationships
with that regional people right now, a lot of what
they would be hearing that'd be quite mortified by.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I'm assuming.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
I'm sure you're right, Katie. I think the reality is
this was a very long time ago, though, and there's
no evidence that things like this are happening anymore. That
doesn't excuse the behavior, but I think context is really important.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
You know, twenty years ago, so going forward, you know,
we know our police, Like what.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Kind of context sort of makes it okay?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
No, No context makes it okay.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
I'm saying, like, when we talk about our police today,
we can't pretend like our police today are the same
police they were years ago.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
That's all I meant.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
No context around the actual awards and things like that. Okay,
so you know, what we know is that our police
work incredibly hard. We've got a fantastic force that is
out there trying to keep people safe, doing everything they
can with the limited resources they have. And so I
think again, it's just you know, the sooner all of
this can be brought to a close and findings made,
(02:23):
the better because it will allow our police, who work
very hard every single day, to move forward.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So do you think that they can be like or
do you think that there does need to be further
work done to try and build those relationships or do
you think that they're as fractured as.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
You know, as what some may believe.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
No, I don't think so that's certainly not the feedback
I get when I'm talking to Aboriginal people out on
community or when I'm talking to police. There are very
very close relationships out there, because of course, when you
have police working in community, you know it's a small place.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Everyone knows each other.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Those police are on call basically twenty four hours, seven
days a week.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
They're out there helping umpire the footy on the.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Weekend, and you know, everyone's living together. So I certainly
don't see this as being some sort of major rift
or divide. What I do think is that it should
all be concluded as swiftly as possible because this only further,
you know, causes a lot of you know, distress for
our police who are out there just trying to get
on with the job.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Now, I want to move along slightly. Last week, we
know that that curfew legislation passed in the Parliament and
some are questioning what kind of situations going to constitute
a curfew being called again? After things fled up in
Alice Springs. Now there was many large disturbances as we know,
involving weapons in Alice on the weekend. Multiple people were
injured and the car was set alight. Would you have
(03:43):
thought that this would be a situation where a curfew
was potentially called?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Absolutely, And it just reinforces how ridiculous this government is
being and trying to save face and look like they're
doing something on law and order. We just passed curfew
legislation and then this weekend we've had riding in the street, weapons,
cars set on fire and this government hasn't called a curfew.
And what's really important about piece of feel listeners to
(04:09):
understand about this curfew legislation is it doesn't create a consequence.
So again, we would have liked to see some sort
of referral pathways. If a young person continues to breach
the curfew and our police just have to keep dropping
them back over the imaginary line, we'd like to see
that a referral to a boot camp and certainly into
(04:30):
discussing with the family what's going on at home.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I guess a difficult situation at the moment.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Though. It's from my understanding with that legislation is it's
no longer the government that would call that curfew, it's
actually the Police Commissioner that will call that curfew. You
would think that he's probably hesitant to I mean to
some degree to really make that judgment call. The first
time ever, I know that the legislation has been passed
without putting words in Michael Murphy, the Commissioner's mouth.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Well, I think the reality is this Katie government was
having a very bad week two weeks ago in part
elament after their disastrous budget, and what they needed was
to change the conversation. So out of nowhere it came
curfew legislation, which I think they just thought up overnight.
There was never any intention to bring that to Parliament
in the last two weeks. And so what we're seeing
(05:14):
is policy on the run, which means probably the Police
Commissioner hasn't been briefed on how.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
To use his powers.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
And again we've got the government, you know, evil Lawla's
out there trying to talk tough and own all the
decisions of this government. Well, where was her direction to
the Police commissioner to implement the curfew.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
It wasn't there, and neither did the Police Minister.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
So this is a government really desperate to paint a
picture of Look at us. We've got curfew legislation, but
what's the point of it if it doesn't deliver a
consequence to the young person or actually get called in
the first place.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Well, look, we have got Brent Potter on in around
twenty minutes or around ten minutes time, so we'll talk.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Further about that with him.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Now. Look, one area which has caused serious issues over
the Northern Territory, well right across the Northern Territory is
indeed alcohol. The government's moving to get alcohol management plans
developed for dry communities with social clubs being considered. Is
something is this something that the CLP supports. Well.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
The CLP has been a large supporter of social clubs
for all of time, Katie. We know their communities running
their own social clubs, having community control around alcohol, working
very very well. This is something that I think Territorians
assumed Labor were working on in the lead up to
the end.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Of Stronger Futures. But of course what we then saw
was Stronger Futures.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
We're told like right from then that it was something
that was on.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I mean, I will say though that I know that
the Labor Party will say to me, and this is
something that they've said in the past that when the
Coalition was in power federally that they certainly could have
signed orf on some of these different management plans in
remote communities and didn't.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So what do you say to.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
That, Oh, I say that, you know, blame shifting doesn't
advance the course.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
So at the end of the day, you've now got
Brent Potter coming out and saying, oh, yep, I'm getting
this done.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
There's forty seven we've got to do it faster.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Well, you've been in power for eight years and of
course nothing has happened. We know that Stronger futures ended
and the government had not started that.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Consultation with communities.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Now we're seeing, you know, we had to see stronger
futures brought back in after carnage and destruction and untold
damage to people's lives. And so now going forward, this government,
with three months to an election, is trying to somehow
process alcohol management plans, which is sending red flags up
for everyone, because of course, alcohol fueled violence has not
been something this government has been successful at addressing. In fact,
(07:38):
they've disempowered our police on alcohol and no one trusts
them to deliver.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Well, look, not everybody's obviously going to agree. I've got
a message that's just come through here or read part
of it. It says alcohol and community is God help
those poor women and kids, and it says, you know,
without a strong police presence, the community doesn't want to
have to deal with this.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
And you know they're.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Shaking their heads at alcohol being implemented in some remote
communities if you don't have a great enough police presence
to deal with the potential ramifications.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Sure, and with respect to your listener, I mean it's
not for people who don't live in those communities to
make decisions for that community. What we do need to do, though,
is make sure that the process is robust and that
it's not a few of the loudest people, that there's
well and truly a majority. I mean, I've heard the
number of sixty percent be bandied around. I think it
needs to be even higher than that, and there needs
(08:28):
to be responsible management. But at the end of the day,
alcohol is a legal product. People are undertaking very risky
behavior to come to town to access it, and why
shouldn't someone who's worked a long, hard day out in
peerl and Gimpia, wherever it might be, then go to
the pub for a couple of mid strength beers. It's
a salpiece plant in this space. We want to continue
(08:49):
those conversations with communities. It's entirely voluntary, but we know
it's worked really well for a very very long time
in many communities across the territory, and so this is
something we're very focused on. But equally, unlike labor, we
have measures to address demand for alcohol. So that's where
compulsory alcohol treatment comes in for chronically affected alcoholics. That's
(09:10):
why we will give police better powers to do with
public drinking and problem drunks and so it's not a
one solution. This is a suite of measures that are
going to drive down alcohol fuel violence across the territory.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Do you think that it will then in turn make
a difference where you won't see people traveling to town
centers like Alice, Spring, Starwin, even Catherine to get their
hands on alcohol.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
People will always travel, but I think we'll see a
lot less of it because and then we'll also see
a reduction in risky behaviors. For example, if people are
traveling one hundred kilometers to the nearest bottle shops, say,
and then they're drinking, and then they're driving, We've then
got risk on our road. So there's risk all in
every space that you move, there's risk. By ensuring that
(09:51):
people can walk from home, have a couple of drinks,
have a meal, socialize that you can have the police there,
you can have a family support their discussing issues. Communities
able to resolve a lot over a beer, which I
think a lot of your listeners would relate to that.
You know, you can get a lot done and you
can resolve a lot of issues. So it's definitely the
(10:12):
way forward. It doesn't answer all of the problems, but
of course, it's just one in a number of suite
of measures the COLP has all.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Right, Lea, there's quite a bit to still get through,
so I want to get cracking. The IKAK, in a
separate report, made no findings against the former Chief Minister
Michael Gunner, following investigations into three trips that he made
to remote communities on chartered flights during polling for the
twenty twenty election. Now, it is perplexing to most of
us reading that report that when you read through the
(10:40):
spending and what happened, well you know that there weren't
further findings. But what we do know is that the
Eyekak has obviously released quite an extensive report. Firstly, what
do you make of the fact that there was no
findings against the former Chief Minister and any of his staff.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
I think territory and is sort of wondering what's happened here.
It's taken a very long time.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com