Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yesterday. We did indeed speak extensively with the Chief Minister
about an eighteen year old being charged with the murder
of much loved Territory and Linford Fight Now, at the
time of Linford's death, we know the alleged defender was
on bail for a raft of serious violent offenses. The
teenager first granted bail by an on call judge in
(00:23):
late twenty twenty three. The Opposition leader Selena Rubo joins
me on the show. Good morning to you, Selena.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Good morning to you Katie and your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, Opposition leader,
what was your reaction to learning that this eighteen year
old alleged defender was on bail at the time that
he allegedly stabbed Linford?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Katie, I think same sort of reaction. There's many territorians frustration, dismay, confusion.
How has something so traumatic for not just one individual
and one family, but a whole community being able to
happen because of this particular individual who's now made the
(01:11):
community feel unsafe. I think a lot of questions, a
lot of hurt, of course, but echoing I think some
of the sentiments that's been shared already across DNP and
leading for more of that detail.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah. I mean so many people have said to me,
and I said this to the Chief Minister yesterday, and
I want to keep it very fair. You know, so
many people have said to me, how on earth are
we in a situation where somebody can allegedly commit incredibly
serious crimes then be out on bail to take the
(01:47):
life of an innocent member of the public.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, I think Katie, those questions are absolutely fair. I
think there'll be a lot more questions as well. Of course,
we're going to Parliament tomorrow. We understand that the final
details of the government's changes will be presented. We will
get some of that detail today as mbers of Parliament,
which my Territory Labor Opposition team is prepared to support.
(02:16):
We know that the community expectation around SPALE is very high.
We want to make sure that we're constructive in supporting
the government changes, but we're also wanting to make sure
that the government doesn't suget Katie that the proposals that
will come through tomorrow in Parliament will not solve crime aligne.
(02:38):
There also has to be a lot of focus on
some of the investment around justice services. If we're able
to see some of those really high pressures on the
justice system in corrections really meet community expectation, we like
the government to also ensure that they are focused on
that as well, because that's what we're hearing clearly across
(02:58):
the territory community. More needs to be done in the
justice space.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So when we talk about, as you touched on there
by the sounds of it, you are prepared to support this.
But Parliament obviously being recalled to sit tomorrow the Chief
Minister directing the Attorney General's Department to urgently draft this legislation.
Now my understanding of it is that it's going to
strengthen Declan's Law with additional changes to the Bail Act.
The legislation is enacted in New South Wales. It was
(03:25):
first highlighted by the Chief Justice, Michael Grant in a
statement to media earlier this year. Now, in that statement
he said, unlike New South Wales, by way of example,
there is no provision in the Northern Territory legislation requiring
that bail must not be granted to a youth unless
the court has a high degree of confidence the young
(03:46):
person will not commit a further offense while on bail. However,
it must be born in mind that since the introduction
of the New South Wales Provision, the number of youths
in custody in that jurisdiction has increased by the thirds
two percent. So Selena, just to double check the Opposition
is going to support this legislation, Katie.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
There's two parts to that. There will be the amendments
to the Bail Act that'll come through tomorrow. What we
understand the work that the Chief Minister and the Attorney
General has talked about in terms of youth there's provisions
within the Youth Justice Act that will be amended that
(04:31):
won't happen tomorrow. That will be a later piece of
work that will be brought to the Parliament. So just
to make sure that listeners understand, the Youth Justice Act
is separate but the prosision Yeah, so that's fine effect,
So that won't come in tomorrow, it'll just be the
bail amendments proposed by No.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
We're aware of that. We had a good talk to
the Chief Minister about that yesterday. So the Youth Bail Act,
there is a raft of work that's going to be
happening on that now I will ask you some questions
about that in the moment, but just to confirm you
will indeed be supporting the strengthening of the legislation around
Decklan's Law with additional changes to the Bail Act with the.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Bail Act, the one that's being presented tomorrow. Yes, and
we'll get the final details from the government today in
a briefing.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Okay, there has indeed been quite a bit of discussion,
as you've just touched on as well about the Youth
Justice Act. It sounds as though there is a lot
more work to happen in this space. But in that
Youth Justice Act, there is a section in there sixty
four to a which states that the Youth Court may
dismiss charges. Now zero point one is subject to sub
(05:39):
section two. The Youth Justice Court may, at any stage
of the proceedings against a youth in respect of an offense,
dismiss the charge in respect of the offense, whether or
not the court finds the charge proven against the youth.
Do you think that that clause should remain in the
Youth Justice.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Act, Katie. What we've said before, we were very prepared
to be constructive. I've said from the outset when I
became your position leader, but I want to be a
constructive opposition, so we will definitely look at the work
that the government's proposing in that very keen to obviously
look at what community expectations are, listening to the legal fraternity,
(06:21):
community organizations who are in the field and working with
young people and making sure that the any proposals that
are made meet community expectation and ultimately make a difference
and make community safer. So that we're very keen to
be working constructively with the government on that, Katie.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well, and I'm assuming working with victims of crime as well.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yes, absolutely, I mean there's a whole range of diverse views.
We want to make sure that in opposition we can
present those and then ultimately it'll be the decision of
the Parliament what goes in, but it will be the
process of being able to highlight the pros and cons
to the government and make sure that they are also
listening to a wide range of people across the community
(07:06):
in the field, legal experts and all of the people
who support the host victims of crime or organizations that
work in that space are very keen.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
To Positionally, there has been a lot of discussion about
bail being granted despite the expectations of the community. Do
you think we've got a situation here where the government
is going to attempt to continue to strengthen bail and
we're going to have judges find ways to still bail offenders.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, Katie, I think it's really important, and I know
people know this, but that separation of power from the
judiciary to the executive arm of government is a really
important part of the lessiness system. That's what we're in.
I think their decisions made by judges often can get
questioned by the community, but they are not influenced politically,
(07:58):
and I think that that's really important to have that
seperation as well.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Do you think we've seen situations though, where the decisions
being made by judges are not meeting the community's expectations.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I think there's probably it's very fair to say that
there would be a level of that, But there's also
the judges, as they act independently with all the information.
Community doesn't always have all the information, and that's the
judge's job to look at every single aspect from the
decision making and through that legal expertise, which often can
frustrate community. Definitely I acknowledge that.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Sorry, no, I know you're out on Groot Island. I'll
get to that in a minute. And obviously there's some
cheeky dogs around. Hey. I do want to ask you though.
And I touched on this a moment ago. Earlier this year,
we extensively spoke on this show about the granting of
compassionate bail to the teenager who subsequently absconded while attending
a funeral. Now, as I touched on, Chief Justice Michael
(08:54):
Grant took the unusual step of issuing that public statement.
Now iner he outlined the factors that judges must consider
when assessing the granting of bail for a youth. They
include the need to consider all other options before remanding
a youth in custody, the need to strengthen and preserve
the relationship between the youth and the youth's family, the
(09:18):
cognitive capacity, health and development needs of the youth, and
if the youth is aboriginal, any issues that arise due
to the youth's aboriginality, including cultural background, ties to extended
family or place, and any other relevant cultural issues or obligation.
(09:38):
Do you think that those factors are taking precedence over
the safety of the community.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well, Katie, again that separation of powers and making sure
that judiciary makes those decisions. I get that.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I totally understand that, but I certainly I put the
same question to the Chief Minister yesterday. Do you think
that those factors are taking precedence over the safety of
the community.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Well, I think again I respect the judiciary and those
in that independent role that they have in illegal expertise.
They have again fair to say that sometimes those decisions
do not need the wider community expectations. Katie's very fair
to say that.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yet, do you think that if a young person commits
an offense that their race should be considered or do
you think that, you know, if any person, no matter
where they come from, commits an offense that you know,
we should all be treated in the same way, Katie.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I think anyone who does the wrong thing absolutely needs
to face the consequence. I know that here in the
Northern Territory there are those provisions around consideration. They are
looked at and that's you know, not going to go
into the whole history of Australia, but there are those
provisions that are now inserted into the law, and that's
the judge's job is to make the decisions based on
(10:58):
the law.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
All right, I know that you are calling for more
Supreme Court judges as I understand it, What exactly do
you want to see happen here to try to speed
things up?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I'm assuming, yeah, Katie, I said, we want to be
solutions based with our territory labor opposition team. Whilst tomorrow's
Parliament is purely about the Bail actin looking at strengthening
it from the government's proposals and looking at some of
the wider range of conversation that has been had, particularly
(11:32):
unfortunately last week in light of the tragic loss of
miss Effect, the conversations also need to include and we
want to make sure that the government is focused on
expanding the capacity of our court's Katie, those legal aid
services around undoing some of those blockages in the legal system,
the pressure that's obviously mounting constantly now on the corrections
(11:57):
staff and facilities and offices. I think that can be
done in a holistic way. So we're really keen to
work with the government and to urge the government to
have that full picture and be constructive as we can
in opposition while we go through this next phase of
focus from the government around bail strengthening. We want to
make sure that they can do more than one thing
(12:17):
at once of the community expectation is captured and making
sure it's done in the constructive way, because no one
wants to ever see the tragedy that's been experienced in
the last week ever. Again, no a focus on prevention.
I think that's very very clear from the community.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
And Salina really. You know, I don't know if the
word's sad or you know, people are starting to feel
really angry. But you know, even on the weekend then
we had a situation where two people allegedly held up
a servo in Alice Springs. One of the well the attendant,
ended up being punched and then also assaulted with a knife.
(12:56):
We also this morning are obviously just learning from the
Fike family themselves that they opened their doors yesterday again
to the community. You know, they opened their doors back
open to the supermarket and they had a group of
people enter the shop and try to steal from them
again yesterday. You know, like we have got a really
(13:20):
serious issue here and it is not good enough, Like
it is not good enough that people are committing these
crimes we've got serious issues with knife crime, but just
a total lack of respect for each other.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Katie. Yeah, I was very disturbed to hear that that
incident had occurred. And again but not just in terms
of the act, but in terms of the trauma that
the family and the staff would have been experiencing because
of that. Obviously still at the front of mine, not
just for the community, but the workers as well. And
(13:56):
I think it is becoming a huge concern when people
are hearing of these multiple incidences, not just in one
part of the territory unfortunately, Katie, but right across the territory.
So that's where again we want to work with the government,
be constructive. We want to make sure that their commitment
to territories, which was stopping crime, but their commitment to
territorians does remain true, does the main front center and
(14:19):
is able to be achieved. So that's where will be
supportive Katians, but we'll also be highlighting things that we
think the government could also be working on in tandem.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
And Selena, I know we heard from Larachie Nation yesterday.
They certainly issued a statement last week calling upon the
NLC the other land councils as well to show that leadership.
What are Aboriginal leaders and you've got four of them,
of course in your caucus doing to call out this behavior.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I think we've seen leaders right across the Northern Territory
and particularly in those Aboriginal organizations, Katie, call this out.
For years and years and years have the Aviagual Justice
Agreement in the Northern Territory. That was a bipartisan agreement
by both the then CLP opposition and the former Labor
government obviously in reverse now that still remains in effect.
(15:12):
It was bipartisan. It was around solutions that were not
just quick fix, about medium and long term solutions led
by Averaginal leadership. That document that agreement can also be
a leading peace to work on reform for the justice
system here in the Northern Territory. I haven't heard the
(15:32):
CLP douments talk about that agreement, but I'm very keen
to continue working.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Absolutely required long terms, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
And Averaginal leadership has been talking about reform for many
many years.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Reform though, But what I'm saying, well, what I'm asking
is in terms of calling out some of the dreadful
behavior that we are seeing.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Again, Katie, I've seen Aboriginal leaders right across the Northern
territory four years calling this out.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So no, no, I'm saying for your four, for you,
you know, for you guys obviously as in our Labor Opposition.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Sorry, what was the question?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So what you know, what work or what work are
you guys doing at this point in time in terms
of working with other Aboriginal leaders and also with the
communities to try and not only call out I think
this behavior, but you know, to help stop some of
what we're saying shorter term.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Well, Katie, if you're looking at the local level, I
know that myself and my other three Labor Opposition members
have all got groups operating in our electorates, in our
remote electorates around law and justice groups. They are community driven,
grassroots community organizations led by local Aboriginal leadership around justice
(16:53):
solutions for either a community or a region of communities.
So each of the four, four of my teams four
have been supporting that for many years. We're starting to
see and hear more verbally calls at a wider sense
for some of our larger population bases, like what we've
heard recently with Larache Nations who Larichie are obviously the
(17:17):
traditional owners that Dalana Parmesan region, but there's also people
from other areas across the northern territory who are living
and working and staying on Larache Country. So how can
we support Laracher Nation with some of that leadership when
it's not just Larochee people talking about those solutions. It
has to be that broader conversation. Again, I go back
(17:39):
to the actual Justice Agreement. Our team remains committed to that.
We look forward to working and supporting the government in
that space and supporting that agreement. But it will always
be called out by my team and I and we
will continue to support those grassroots solutions and we can
see some of them like the Grid Island example I
gave you I think it was my last year, Katie,
(18:01):
that has been significant drop in numbers of young offenders,
young adult and ambilia for male offenders between the ages
of eighteen and twenty five years old. And that is
community driven, that is culturally safe in the way that
it is being delivered, and it has been supported by
not just the government but the many organizations in the
(18:23):
island archipelagos.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
With some of those things that have worked, like with
something like that that's worked really well, right, How do
we though, then transfer something like that to you know,
to a major town center. If you've got people wanting
to you know, to come to a place like Darwin
or to Alis Springs, how do you transfer some of
what's worked really well in those communities into our larger
(18:46):
town centers, do you think or can it be? In
some way?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
It absolutely can be. And it comes back to that
investment in the justice services that I mentioned earlier. So
whilst we know that strengthening bail laws is one respect
of community safety, Katie, there also needs to be that
focus on justice services and that's that holistic services holistic
approach I was talking about. So justice services aren't just
the legal aid services, Katie. They're the organizations doing that
(19:14):
frontline work, working on those programs, doing the community organization programs,
offering up other solutions that stop and address the cycle
of crime and really focus on getting someone off that
wrong track and putting them on the right track. And
I think that when we have some of those great
examples across the Northern Territory, they are being shared. I
(19:35):
know there's some really fantastic work having in Central Australia,
and one particular organization is now traveling to other parts
of the territory and also working in partnership with those
other organizations different parts of territory to expand the model
that they've worked on, that they've seen success in and
they're working with other organizations to have that locally based solution.
(19:59):
So it is we need to see more of it.
We also need to see the investment and the resources
to support that if we're ever going to see a
change in the justice system in the Northern Territory. That
also needs to be part of the conversation of the government.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
All right, Selena, I can't let you go without finding
out what is happening on Grood Island at the moment.
I know that it's being battered by bad weather over
the last few days. It's seen flights canceled. What's the
latest update. You're there at the moment, you got that
cheeky dog in the background, But what is the latest
when it comes to the weather. It's been pretty fullorn, hasn't.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
It, Yeah, Katie. A week ago back home in Catherine,
it felt like the dry season was starting and I
was fortunate to be in another part of the electorate
in Manaranka and doing the NXAC service there, which was amazing,
and then literally just the whole East Aurnham Coast is
just being smashed with rain. It is proper, proper wet
(20:51):
season rain, not huge thunderstorms, o Katie, just constant wind
and rain. So yeah, group's definitely getting its late share
of April rain. Hopefully they'll get the dry season. What
is it first of May? It might you know, help
clear up funnily in the calendar and start the dry
But grew is looking beautiful and green, but a couple
(21:12):
of rivers have gone up, and the Nuruguo community the
other day was cut off. A lot a lot of
water happening here. I think ninety five meals in one day,
So yeah, a lot of water happening over a short
amount of time. But everyone's staying in good spirits, so
that is good everywhere.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Do you know what impact it's having on the mine
operations and workers as well.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, the mine operations are continuing the big issue at group, Katie,
and I've been meeting with people the last couple of
days is the warp reconstruction. And I know there was
an article I think giving news this morning around the operations,
so the mine's still operating, they're stop filing the manganese,
but they need to get that to market. They need
(21:54):
to export. That is obviously one of our biggest income
earners in the Northern Territory, if not Australia as well.
It makes a huge impact in a positive way for
our economy in the territory and obviously we've seen some
negative impact by not getting that export out to market.
So fingers crossed. The twenty four hour work that's been
happening literally for the last twelve months to reconstruct the
(22:16):
wharf here in Groode Island is starting to come to
an endpoint. I think they're meeting there. The time frames
a lot quicker than they expected, but hopefully end of
May beginning of June, if the wolf's repaired, they'll start
to see that export return to market and can get
shipped all over the world, which would be a great
thing for the Northern Territory and particularly for the operations
(22:39):
here at Group.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, spot on, well, Opposition Leader Selena Rubo, really appreciate
your time this morning. Are you going to be able
to get back here for Parliament tomorrow other flights back?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Absolutely, that's my job. Member of Parliament. I will be
at Parliament tomorrow, Katie.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I thought the f I was wondering whether flights are
being canceled or whether you were still able to get
in and out.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
But yeah, unfortunately a couple went canceled yesterday. But first
bit of sunshine in about five days here at group,
so I'm feeling confident for this morning.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Good stuff. Selena Rubo, Opposition Leader, thank you as always
for your time.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Thank you so much, Katie, thank you
Yesterday. We did indeed speak extensively with the Chief Minister
about an eighteen year old being charged with the murder
of much loved Territory and Linford Fight Now, at the
time of Linford's death, we know the alleged defender was
on bail for a raft of serious violent offenses. The
teenager first granted bail by an on call judge in
(00:23):
late twenty twenty three. The Opposition leader Selena Rubo joins
me on the show. Good morning to you, Selena.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Good morning to you Katie and your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, Opposition leader,
what was your reaction to learning that this eighteen year
old alleged defender was on bail at the time that
he allegedly stabbed Linford?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Katie, I think same sort of reaction. There's many territorians frustration, dismay, confusion.
How has something so traumatic for not just one individual
and one family, but a whole community being able to
happen because of this particular individual who's now made the
(01:11):
community feel unsafe. I think a lot of questions, a
lot of hurt, of course, but echoing I think some
of the sentiments that's been shared already across DNP and
leading for more of that detail.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah. I mean so many people have said to me,
and I said this to the Chief Minister yesterday, and
I want to keep it very fair. You know, so
many people have said to me, how on earth are
we in a situation where somebody can allegedly commit incredibly
serious crimes then be out on bail to take the
(01:47):
life of an innocent member of the public.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, I think Katie, those questions are absolutely fair. I
think there'll be a lot more questions as well. Of course,
we're going to Parliament tomorrow. We understand that the final
details of the government's changes will be presented. We will
get some of that detail today as mbers of Parliament,
which my Territory Labor Opposition team is prepared to support.
(02:16):
We know that the community expectation around SPALE is very high.
We want to make sure that we're constructive in supporting
the government changes, but we're also wanting to make sure
that the government doesn't suget Katie that the proposals that
will come through tomorrow in Parliament will not solve crime aligne.
(02:38):
There also has to be a lot of focus on
some of the investment around justice services. If we're able
to see some of those really high pressures on the
justice system in corrections really meet community expectation, we like
the government to also ensure that they are focused on
that as well, because that's what we're hearing clearly across
(02:58):
the territory community. More needs to be done in the
justice space.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So when we talk about, as you touched on there
by the sounds of it, you are prepared to support this.
But Parliament obviously being recalled to sit tomorrow the Chief
Minister directing the Attorney General's Department to urgently draft this legislation.
Now my understanding of it is that it's going to
strengthen Declan's Law with additional changes to the Bail Act.
The legislation is enacted in New South Wales. It was
(03:25):
first highlighted by the Chief Justice, Michael Grant in a
statement to media earlier this year. Now, in that statement
he said, unlike New South Wales, by way of example,
there is no provision in the Northern Territory legislation requiring
that bail must not be granted to a youth unless
the court has a high degree of confidence the young
(03:46):
person will not commit a further offense while on bail. However,
it must be born in mind that since the introduction
of the New South Wales Provision, the number of youths
in custody in that jurisdiction has increased by the thirds
two percent. So Selena, just to double check the Opposition
is going to support this legislation, Katie.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
There's two parts to that. There will be the amendments
to the Bail Act that'll come through tomorrow. What we
understand the work that the Chief Minister and the Attorney
General has talked about in terms of youth there's provisions
within the Youth Justice Act that will be amended that
(04:31):
won't happen tomorrow. That will be a later piece of
work that will be brought to the Parliament. So just
to make sure that listeners understand, the Youth Justice Act
is separate but the prosision Yeah, so that's fine effect,
So that won't come in tomorrow, it'll just be the
bail amendments proposed by No.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
We're aware of that. We had a good talk to
the Chief Minister about that yesterday. So the Youth Bail Act,
there is a raft of work that's going to be
happening on that now I will ask you some questions
about that in the moment, but just to confirm you
will indeed be supporting the strengthening of the legislation around
Decklan's Law with additional changes to the Bail Act with the.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Bail Act, the one that's being presented tomorrow. Yes, and
we'll get the final details from the government today in
a briefing.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Okay, there has indeed been quite a bit of discussion,
as you've just touched on as well about the Youth
Justice Act. It sounds as though there is a lot
more work to happen in this space. But in that
Youth Justice Act, there is a section in there sixty
four to a which states that the Youth Court may
dismiss charges. Now zero point one is subject to sub
(05:39):
section two. The Youth Justice Court may, at any stage
of the proceedings against a youth in respect of an offense,
dismiss the charge in respect of the offense, whether or
not the court finds the charge proven against the youth.
Do you think that that clause should remain in the
Youth Justice.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Act, Katie. What we've said before, we were very prepared
to be constructive. I've said from the outset when I
became your position leader, but I want to be a
constructive opposition, so we will definitely look at the work
that the government's proposing in that very keen to obviously
look at what community expectations are, listening to the legal fraternity,
(06:21):
community organizations who are in the field and working with
young people and making sure that the any proposals that
are made meet community expectation and ultimately make a difference
and make community safer. So that we're very keen to
be working constructively with the government on that, Katie.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well, and I'm assuming working with victims of crime as well.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yes, absolutely, I mean there's a whole range of diverse views.
We want to make sure that in opposition we can
present those and then ultimately it'll be the decision of
the Parliament what goes in, but it will be the
process of being able to highlight the pros and cons
to the government and make sure that they are also
listening to a wide range of people across the community
(07:06):
in the field, legal experts and all of the people
who support the host victims of crime or organizations that
work in that space are very keen.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
To Positionally, there has been a lot of discussion about
bail being granted despite the expectations of the community. Do
you think we've got a situation here where the government
is going to attempt to continue to strengthen bail and
we're going to have judges find ways to still bail offenders.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, Katie, I think it's really important, and I know
people know this, but that separation of power from the
judiciary to the executive arm of government is a really
important part of the lessiness system. That's what we're in.
I think their decisions made by judges often can get
questioned by the community, but they are not influenced politically,
(07:58):
and I think that that's really important to have that
seperation as well.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Do you think we've seen situations though, where the decisions
being made by judges are not meeting the community's expectations.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I think there's probably it's very fair to say that
there would be a level of that, But there's also
the judges, as they act independently with all the information.
Community doesn't always have all the information, and that's the
judge's job to look at every single aspect from the
decision making and through that legal expertise, which often can
frustrate community. Definitely I acknowledge that.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Sorry, no, I know you're out on Groot Island. I'll
get to that in a minute. And obviously there's some
cheeky dogs around. Hey. I do want to ask you though.
And I touched on this a moment ago. Earlier this year,
we extensively spoke on this show about the granting of
compassionate bail to the teenager who subsequently absconded while attending
a funeral. Now, as I touched on, Chief Justice Michael
(08:54):
Grant took the unusual step of issuing that public statement.
Now iner he outlined the factors that judges must consider
when assessing the granting of bail for a youth. They
include the need to consider all other options before remanding
a youth in custody, the need to strengthen and preserve
the relationship between the youth and the youth's family, the
(09:18):
cognitive capacity, health and development needs of the youth, and
if the youth is aboriginal, any issues that arise due
to the youth's aboriginality, including cultural background, ties to extended
family or place, and any other relevant cultural issues or obligation.
(09:38):
Do you think that those factors are taking precedence over
the safety of the community.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well, Katie, again that separation of powers and making sure
that judiciary makes those decisions. I get that.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I totally understand that, but I certainly I put the
same question to the Chief Minister yesterday. Do you think
that those factors are taking precedence over the safety of
the community.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Well, I think again I respect the judiciary and those
in that independent role that they have in illegal expertise.
They have again fair to say that sometimes those decisions
do not need the wider community expectations. Katie's very fair
to say that.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Yet, do you think that if a young person commits
an offense that their race should be considered or do
you think that, you know, if any person, no matter
where they come from, commits an offense that you know,
we should all be treated in the same way, Katie.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I think anyone who does the wrong thing absolutely needs
to face the consequence. I know that here in the
Northern Territory there are those provisions around consideration. They are
looked at and that's you know, not going to go
into the whole history of Australia, but there are those
provisions that are now inserted into the law, and that's
the judge's job is to make the decisions based on
(10:58):
the law.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
All right, I know that you are calling for more
Supreme Court judges as I understand it, What exactly do
you want to see happen here to try to speed
things up?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I'm assuming, yeah, Katie, I said, we want to be
solutions based with our territory labor opposition team. Whilst tomorrow's
Parliament is purely about the Bail actin looking at strengthening
it from the government's proposals and looking at some of
the wider range of conversation that has been had, particularly
(11:32):
unfortunately last week in light of the tragic loss of
miss Effect, the conversations also need to include and we
want to make sure that the government is focused on
expanding the capacity of our court's Katie, those legal aid
services around undoing some of those blockages in the legal system,
the pressure that's obviously mounting constantly now on the corrections
(11:57):
staff and facilities and offices. I think that can be
done in a holistic way. So we're really keen to
work with the government and to urge the government to
have that full picture and be constructive as we can
in opposition while we go through this next phase of
focus from the government around bail strengthening. We want to
make sure that they can do more than one thing
(12:17):
at once of the community expectation is captured and making
sure it's done in the constructive way, because no one
wants to ever see the tragedy that's been experienced in
the last week ever. Again, no a focus on prevention.
I think that's very very clear from the community.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
And Salina really. You know, I don't know if the
word's sad or you know, people are starting to feel
really angry. But you know, even on the weekend then
we had a situation where two people allegedly held up
a servo in Alice Springs. One of the well the attendant,
ended up being punched and then also assaulted with a knife.
(12:56):
We also this morning are obviously just learning from the
Fike family themselves that they opened their doors yesterday again
to the community. You know, they opened their doors back
open to the supermarket and they had a group of
people enter the shop and try to steal from them
again yesterday. You know, like we have got a really
(13:20):
serious issue here and it is not good enough, Like
it is not good enough that people are committing these
crimes we've got serious issues with knife crime, but just
a total lack of respect for each other.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Katie. Yeah, I was very disturbed to hear that that
incident had occurred. And again but not just in terms
of the act, but in terms of the trauma that
the family and the staff would have been experiencing because
of that. Obviously still at the front of mine, not
just for the community, but the workers as well. And
(13:56):
I think it is becoming a huge concern when people
are hearing of these multiple incidences, not just in one
part of the territory unfortunately, Katie, but right across the territory.
So that's where again we want to work with the government,
be constructive. We want to make sure that their commitment
to territories, which was stopping crime, but their commitment to
territorians does remain true, does the main front center and
(14:19):
is able to be achieved. So that's where will be
supportive Katians, but we'll also be highlighting things that we
think the government could also be working on in tandem.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
And Selena, I know we heard from Larachie Nation yesterday.
They certainly issued a statement last week calling upon the
NLC the other land councils as well to show that leadership.
What are Aboriginal leaders and you've got four of them,
of course in your caucus doing to call out this behavior.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I think we've seen leaders right across the Northern Territory
and particularly in those Aboriginal organizations, Katie, call this out.
For years and years and years have the Aviagual Justice
Agreement in the Northern Territory. That was a bipartisan agreement
by both the then CLP opposition and the former Labor
government obviously in reverse now that still remains in effect.
(15:12):
It was bipartisan. It was around solutions that were not
just quick fix, about medium and long term solutions led
by Averaginal leadership. That document that agreement can also be
a leading peace to work on reform for the justice
system here in the Northern Territory. I haven't heard the
(15:32):
CLP douments talk about that agreement, but I'm very keen
to continue working.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Absolutely required long terms, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
And Averaginal leadership has been talking about reform for many
many years.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Reform though, But what I'm saying, well, what I'm asking
is in terms of calling out some of the dreadful
behavior that we are seeing.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Again, Katie, I've seen Aboriginal leaders right across the Northern
territory four years calling this out.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So no, no, I'm saying for your four, for you,
you know, for you guys obviously as in our Labor Opposition.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Sorry, what was the question?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So what you know, what work or what work are
you guys doing at this point in time in terms
of working with other Aboriginal leaders and also with the
communities to try and not only call out I think
this behavior, but you know, to help stop some of
what we're saying shorter term.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Well, Katie, if you're looking at the local level, I
know that myself and my other three Labor Opposition members
have all got groups operating in our electorates, in our
remote electorates around law and justice groups. They are community driven,
grassroots community organizations led by local Aboriginal leadership around justice
(16:53):
solutions for either a community or a region of communities.
So each of the four, four of my teams four
have been supporting that for many years. We're starting to
see and hear more verbally calls at a wider sense
for some of our larger population bases, like what we've
heard recently with Larache Nations who Larichie are obviously the
(17:17):
traditional owners that Dalana Parmesan region, but there's also people
from other areas across the northern territory who are living
and working and staying on Larache Country. So how can
we support Laracher Nation with some of that leadership when
it's not just Larochee people talking about those solutions. It
has to be that broader conversation. Again, I go back
(17:39):
to the actual Justice Agreement. Our team remains committed to that.
We look forward to working and supporting the government in
that space and supporting that agreement. But it will always
be called out by my team and I and we
will continue to support those grassroots solutions and we can
see some of them like the Grid Island example I
gave you I think it was my last year, Katie,
(18:01):
that has been significant drop in numbers of young offenders,
young adult and ambilia for male offenders between the ages
of eighteen and twenty five years old. And that is
community driven, that is culturally safe in the way that
it is being delivered, and it has been supported by
not just the government but the many organizations in the
(18:23):
island archipelagos.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
With some of those things that have worked, like with
something like that that's worked really well, right, How do
we though, then transfer something like that to you know,
to a major town center. If you've got people wanting
to you know, to come to a place like Darwin
or to Alis Springs, how do you transfer some of
what's worked really well in those communities into our larger
(18:46):
town centers, do you think or can it be? In
some way?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
It absolutely can be. And it comes back to that
investment in the justice services that I mentioned earlier. So
whilst we know that strengthening bail laws is one respect
of community safety, Katie, there also needs to be that
focus on justice services and that's that holistic services holistic
approach I was talking about. So justice services aren't just
the legal aid services, Katie. They're the organizations doing that
(19:14):
frontline work, working on those programs, doing the community organization programs,
offering up other solutions that stop and address the cycle
of crime and really focus on getting someone off that
wrong track and putting them on the right track. And
I think that when we have some of those great
examples across the Northern Territory, they are being shared. I
(19:35):
know there's some really fantastic work having in Central Australia,
and one particular organization is now traveling to other parts
of the territory and also working in partnership with those
other organizations different parts of territory to expand the model
that they've worked on, that they've seen success in and
they're working with other organizations to have that locally based solution.
(19:59):
So it is we need to see more of it.
We also need to see the investment and the resources
to support that if we're ever going to see a
change in the justice system in the Northern Territory. That
also needs to be part of the conversation of the government.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
All right, Selena, I can't let you go without finding
out what is happening on Grood Island at the moment.
I know that it's being battered by bad weather over
the last few days. It's seen flights canceled. What's the
latest update. You're there at the moment, you got that
cheeky dog in the background, But what is the latest
when it comes to the weather. It's been pretty fullorn, hasn't.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
It, Yeah, Katie. A week ago back home in Catherine,
it felt like the dry season was starting and I
was fortunate to be in another part of the electorate
in Manaranka and doing the NXAC service there, which was amazing,
and then literally just the whole East Aurnham Coast is
just being smashed with rain. It is proper, proper wet
(20:51):
season rain, not huge thunderstorms, o Katie, just constant wind
and rain. So yeah, group's definitely getting its late share
of April rain. Hopefully they'll get the dry season. What
is it first of May? It might you know, help
clear up funnily in the calendar and start the dry
But grew is looking beautiful and green, but a couple
(21:12):
of rivers have gone up, and the Nuruguo community the
other day was cut off. A lot a lot of
water happening here. I think ninety five meals in one day,
So yeah, a lot of water happening over a short
amount of time. But everyone's staying in good spirits, so
that is good everywhere.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Do you know what impact it's having on the mine
operations and workers as well.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, the mine operations are continuing the big issue at group, Katie,
and I've been meeting with people the last couple of
days is the warp reconstruction. And I know there was
an article I think giving news this morning around the operations,
so the mine's still operating, they're stop filing the manganese,
but they need to get that to market. They need
(21:54):
to export. That is obviously one of our biggest income
earners in the Northern Territory, if not Australia as well.
It makes a huge impact in a positive way for
our economy in the territory and obviously we've seen some
negative impact by not getting that export out to market.
So fingers crossed. The twenty four hour work that's been
happening literally for the last twelve months to reconstruct the
(22:16):
wharf here in Groode Island is starting to come to
an endpoint. I think they're meeting there. The time frames
a lot quicker than they expected, but hopefully end of
May beginning of June, if the wolf's repaired, they'll start
to see that export return to market and can get
shipped all over the world, which would be a great
thing for the Northern Territory and particularly for the operations
(22:39):
here at Group.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, spot on, well, Opposition Leader Selena Rubo, really appreciate
your time this morning. Are you going to be able
to get back here for Parliament tomorrow other flights back?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Absolutely, that's my job. Member of Parliament. I will be
at Parliament tomorrow, Katie.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I thought the f I was wondering whether flights are
being canceled or whether you were still able to get
in and out.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
But yeah, unfortunately a couple went canceled yesterday. But first
bit of sunshine in about five days here at group,
so I'm feeling confident for this morning.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Good stuff. Selena Rubo, Opposition Leader, thank you as always
for your time.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Thank you so much, Katie, thank you
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