Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yesterday we spoke about these major reforms to the electricity
system and network to enhance reliability is what the government said,
and affordability. They were introduced into Parliament yesterday. The reforms
are going to create a new governance arrangement for procuring
electricity assets and energy contracting, cutting red tape, and an
(00:20):
independent system controller and market operator is also set to
be established separate from Power and Water Corporation Now. The
Minister for Minds into Energy, Jared Mayley, says that the
system controller will help to prevent to outages like the
one that impacted about fourteen hundred customers in Palmerston on Monday.
Joining us on the line is the Opposition leader Selena Ubo.
(00:42):
Good morning to you, Selena.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Good morning Katy, and good morning to your listener.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Now tell me what do you make of these changes
that the government's announced and introducing to parliament.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, Katie, this is a continuation of some of the
work we started when Labor was in government. It is
unfortunately a year behind. It should have been introduced and
debated and hopefully passed in the parliament end of last year,
so it's nearly twelve months behind. But it's work that
we started, so we will support it. It doesn't look
like there is much that has changed in the time
(01:14):
that we're in government to what's been introduced and what
will be debated today by Jared Mayley and the Coelpea government.
So we don't think that this is a contentious issue
in this comes from so translation.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, look, I'm pleased to hear that because I listened
to him yesterday and I wasn't one hundred percent sure
whether this was going to mean, you know, power prices
going up, arms being privatized, or what it sort of meant.
So by the sounds of it, bipartisan support on this
because it does continue on some of the work that
you guys had done. I mean, when you look at
the announcement of that independent system controller and market Operator
(01:48):
being established separate from Power and Water Corporation, is that
a good move?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah? I think what I'm very keen to find out
today through the debate and to the response from government,
is there's going to be an absolute separation with NINTESMO
the energy market operator or will it just be on paper.
So I've got some people who've asked me questions, people
who are very technical in nature and deal with this
(02:14):
every day in terms of their day jobs. But I'm
hearing a bit more around the separation is more on
paper than in practice side of the energy provider as
well as the operator. So just keen to find out
a bit more about that from the government today.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So do you think that these changes are going to
see some saving measures longer term when it comes to infrastructure,
because I think that we can all agree and I
know that we always have government sort of saying you know,
this mob did this, this one didn't do that. But
when it comes to power and water, and when it
comes to our infrastructure, you know, I've been around for
long enough to know that both governments should have invested
(02:51):
more heavily into that infrastructure. But do you think that
these changes are going to mean that you know that
we see some of that investment and that it we're
not doubling up by guesses, is the way I want
to ask.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, And I think the big piece of the legislation
that's happening today, which we started, is around the connectivity
and stability of energy in the Northern Territory and allowing
for more connectivity around renewable energy. We know that there
is a big want in the territory community to transition
towards more renewables. This legislation helps to enable that and
(03:27):
I think that's a positive thing. It also provides some
more options around new technologies being able to be brought
into the territory energy mix, and I think that's a
really good way forward for the territory. Whether it's a
labour piece of legislation or COLP, I think overall that
having the ability to streamline more energy mix into the
territory grids is really important because we have at the
(03:49):
moment kat three electricity grids across the Northern Territory that
are powering our biggest town centers and cities. There's a
couple of standalone ones as well. In the end, so importantly,
what does this mean for Territorians. We want to make
sure that the community service obligation remains of the government.
What I was really worried about in the discussion yesterday
(04:11):
jured mainly as the Energy Minister brought forward a minister
or report and called it the dire state of Energy
in the Northern Territory. I think it was a real
fear mongering exercise, and what our concern is from the
labor team is that they're priming territorians for those huge
price increases on territorials hip pockets, which is what happened ago. Yeah,
(04:34):
we hope not. And I made the point yesterday in
that that was a separate debate case. But I made
the point in that because today's is really about how
do you bring in and make sure that the energy
mix in the Northern Territory is fit for purpose, is reliable,
it's stable, but it is cost effective for territory.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Well, that's they are all the very important points. I mean,
I do just want to make your way though. I
know that there was a non reliable system notice in
place for Darwin Catherine Power System until the twenty fourth
of October, so only for another day, but basically that
risk notice issued when a grid's generators do not have
enough spare generation capacity to guarantee full supply if a
(05:15):
contingency event occurs. I mean, that's a worry I think
to a lot of people listening.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, it is, Katie, And that's why the work of
all of our providers is so important. When we can
see the territory is We've heard from the Bureau of
Meteorology this week there's a heat wave being experienced across
the territory like Home and Catherine, I think they're up
to forty one, So more air cons, more fans, more
pool pumps going to be used, and obviously to cool
(05:41):
people down and to keep people at a safe place
when it's high temperatures. That also puts a lot of
stress and loading on the systems. So being able to
identify that show those warnings, and we're at the opposite
in the dry season Katie, and particularly our springs in
the winter when there's not a lot of energy use
other than the heating, because there's so much done that
(06:02):
their soulars are working and there's not always that output
for the extra energy. So there's a really fine balance
that and I learned many years ago when I have
the energy renewables portfolio. There's a really fine mix. But
the work that people do in that territory generation with
our obviously retailer, with Chakana and of course Power and
Water Corporation, the work that they do to collaborate as
(06:24):
our government owned corporations with some of those other energy
providers in the territory is so important. So when we
do have weeks or months like this, when the territory
unfortunately is getting hotter year after year. The energy can
be followed and tracked and seeing what is stable, and
then also putting out those warnings so people are aware,
you know, if you're not at home, turn off your
(06:45):
air gone or turn off your fans, etc. Whatever those
savings measures and energy measures are. You know, just getting
people aware of that I think is really important.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Selena, A couple of quick ones before I let you
go this morning. I know that that Cat macnamara, the
members and Nightcliffe introduced emotion to censure the Deputy Chief
Minister yesterday. I'm saying that the well for his ongoing aggressive,
threatening behavior in the chamber. She said, primarily to the
women on the cross bench. I mean, do you think
(07:15):
that the Deputy Chief Minister needs to be censured here
or do you think that the new member of Parliament
Cat McNamara needs to toughen up.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I think there was some quite concerning behavior last week
by Jared maybe the Deputy Chief Minister, which was predominantly
what was the focus of Cat McNamara's motion, the censure
motion that went before the House yesterday. I think it
is probably poor choice by the government not to accept
that censure because that's when you can talk it out
(07:46):
and really get to the crux of that issue, and
we're talking about those key leadership roles of the government.
I think it's really important that you know, people don't
just see a five or ten second grab of our politicians,
that we really get to delve into the issues. I
do know that some of the cross Bench have gone
to the parliamentary process to flag their concerns. I think
(08:07):
this is another measure to bring out and highlight or
low light whatever you want to look at it, the
concerns that they have. And it is a very unique workplace.
We've spoken about it before, Katie, and there are lots
of ups and downs. There's not a lot of processes
around behavior like that, so I think they've done some
different I understand that I'm not gonna speak for casual
(08:30):
Justine at all is on the cross bench, but I
think there has been ways to flag that. I mean,
in the past, when I've felt like the workplace was
not a supportive environment for me, I've stood up and
done a ten minute adjournment about that to let people know.
Because sometimes you think we get to talk and figure
around the Northern territory, but we also need to be
(08:51):
able to feel that we're empowered to do that until sake.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So I mean, do you think that we run the
risk here of actually not having healthy debate inside the Parliament? Like,
don't get me wrong, you know, I literally some days
I have stand up arguments with people in this studio.
I mean, I haven't had one with you, and I
hope I don't have to, but I definitely have over
the years. But I've also seen in parliament, you know,
(09:15):
over the last sort of fifteen years, because I worked
as a labor staff for many, many years ago, and
I've seen, I've got to tell you, a lot worse
than what I've seen over the last year.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, And I think you hit the nail on the
head there, Katie. Healthy debate and when debate feels unhealthy
for someone. It's not for me to say how another member,
especially another female member of Parliament feels, But in terms
of when people don't feel that they're able to voice,
it doesn't matter what work environment. Obviously we're on a
very different stage and we're in we're in the spotlight
(09:49):
all the time as politicians, but that healthy debate is
so important and when it becomes unhealthy, and I have
seen that. I have seen some very toxic behavior in
words and behave in in the parliament. And you know,
I'm no age. We know that becomes unhealthy. I think
that is the issue, and that's really what I think.
Kat McNamara articulated through her motion and we were prepared
(10:13):
to support it. It didn't get up. The government did
accept that, so we weren't able to have that ongoing debate.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Key, hey, really quick one before I let you go
the well. The Senator Lydia Thorpe in the Federal Parliament
has referred the Northern Territory Attorney General, Marie Claire Boothby
to the nt IKAC following allegations of government interference in
media communications from the Supreme Court. Now she's talking about
(10:39):
elite email from the NTS top judge asked asking the
Attorney General's department not to interfere with the Court's media activities.
That's according to a report by the ABC. Now. Both
parties later said it was a misunderstanding which has been resolved.
Senator Thorpe then accusing Miss Boothby of undermining the independence
of the judiciary and the separation of powers. Also obviously
(11:01):
referring to her not initially declaring the conflict of interest
in terms of Jake Danby being her sister's step son.
What do you make of these calls by Lydia? I
know that the last time she sort of delved into
Northern Territory politics, it was calling you a man as
(11:23):
the Attorney General. I mean, what do you make of it?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I think she called me a white man.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I think she did it.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Couldn't remember. I got the transcript of it and everything.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
And you shut her down afterwards. I mean, you shut
her right down.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I definitely did, And I mean that probably irks people
that most is when we have people from outside the
territory talking about territory issues. But in terms of this
particular issue, Katie, I think that, you know, I would
never say I agree necessarily with sender the thought, but
I think I agree with the issue being a concern
for Territorians when we do talk about separations of power
(11:57):
and the judiciary and the lawmakers, which we are as
members of the Northern Territory Parliament, if there is any
blurred line or crossover that needs to be addressed, and
we haven't heard any of that come from the Attorney
General and more disturbingly, Katie, we haven't heard any of
that from Lisanocchio. As the Chief Minister, she should be
standing up and saying this is absolutely not part of
(12:19):
what our government does. We will never overreach like she
needs to be strong on this, and we need to
see that from the Attorney General of course, but if
she's the crux of the complaint and the issue and
the concern, we need to hear that from the Chief
Minister and the Deputy Chief Minister to reassure territorians. What
other Australians think about the territory is their business, but
to reassure territories that that separation of power is respected
(12:40):
and it will not be crossed.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Selina Yu Both the Opposition leader. I better let you
go get into Parliament. Thanks so much for your time
this morning.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Thank you very much, Katie.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Thank you
Yesterday we spoke about these major reforms to the electricity
system and network to enhance reliability is what the government said,
and affordability. They were introduced into Parliament yesterday. The reforms
are going to create a new governance arrangement for procuring
electricity assets and energy contracting, cutting red tape, and an
(00:20):
independent system controller and market operator is also set to
be established separate from Power and Water Corporation Now. The
Minister for Minds into Energy, Jared Mayley, says that the
system controller will help to prevent to outages like the
one that impacted about fourteen hundred customers in Palmerston on Monday.
Joining us on the line is the Opposition leader Selena Ubo.
(00:42):
Good morning to you, Selena.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Good morning Katy, and good morning to your listener.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Now tell me what do you make of these changes
that the government's announced and introducing to parliament.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, Katie, this is a continuation of some of the
work we started when Labor was in government. It is
unfortunately a year behind. It should have been introduced and
debated and hopefully passed in the parliament end of last year,
so it's nearly twelve months behind. But it's work that
we started, so we will support it. It doesn't look
like there is much that has changed in the time
(01:14):
that we're in government to what's been introduced and what
will be debated today by Jared Mayley and the Coelpea government.
So we don't think that this is a contentious issue
in this comes from so translation.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, look, I'm pleased to hear that because I listened
to him yesterday and I wasn't one hundred percent sure
whether this was going to mean, you know, power prices
going up, arms being privatized, or what it sort of meant.
So by the sounds of it, bipartisan support on this
because it does continue on some of the work that
you guys had done. I mean, when you look at
the announcement of that independent system controller and market Operator
(01:48):
being established separate from Power and Water Corporation, is that
a good move?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah? I think what I'm very keen to find out
today through the debate and to the response from government,
is there's going to be an absolute separation with NINTESMO
the energy market operator or will it just be on paper.
So I've got some people who've asked me questions, people
who are very technical in nature and deal with this
(02:14):
every day in terms of their day jobs. But I'm
hearing a bit more around the separation is more on
paper than in practice side of the energy provider as
well as the operator. So just keen to find out
a bit more about that from the government today.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So do you think that these changes are going to
see some saving measures longer term when it comes to infrastructure,
because I think that we can all agree and I
know that we always have government sort of saying you know,
this mob did this, this one didn't do that. But
when it comes to power and water, and when it
comes to our infrastructure, you know, I've been around for
long enough to know that both governments should have invested
(02:51):
more heavily into that infrastructure. But do you think that
these changes are going to mean that you know that
we see some of that investment and that it we're
not doubling up by guesses, is the way I want
to ask.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, And I think the big piece of the legislation
that's happening today, which we started, is around the connectivity
and stability of energy in the Northern Territory and allowing
for more connectivity around renewable energy. We know that there
is a big want in the territory community to transition
towards more renewables. This legislation helps to enable that and
(03:27):
I think that's a positive thing. It also provides some
more options around new technologies being able to be brought
into the territory energy mix, and I think that's a
really good way forward for the territory. Whether it's a
labour piece of legislation or COLP, I think overall that
having the ability to streamline more energy mix into the
territory grids is really important because we have at the
(03:49):
moment kat three electricity grids across the Northern Territory that
are powering our biggest town centers and cities. There's a
couple of standalone ones as well. In the end, so importantly,
what does this mean for Territorians. We want to make
sure that the community service obligation remains of the government.
What I was really worried about in the discussion yesterday
(04:11):
jured mainly as the Energy Minister brought forward a minister
or report and called it the dire state of Energy
in the Northern Territory. I think it was a real
fear mongering exercise, and what our concern is from the
labor team is that they're priming territorians for those huge
price increases on territorials hip pockets, which is what happened ago. Yeah,
(04:34):
we hope not. And I made the point yesterday in
that that was a separate debate case. But I made
the point in that because today's is really about how
do you bring in and make sure that the energy
mix in the Northern Territory is fit for purpose, is reliable,
it's stable, but it is cost effective for territory.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Well, that's they are all the very important points. I mean,
I do just want to make your way though. I
know that there was a non reliable system notice in
place for Darwin Catherine Power System until the twenty fourth
of October, so only for another day, but basically that
risk notice issued when a grid's generators do not have
enough spare generation capacity to guarantee full supply if a
(05:15):
contingency event occurs. I mean, that's a worry I think
to a lot of people listening.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, it is, Katie, And that's why the work of
all of our providers is so important. When we can
see the territory is We've heard from the Bureau of
Meteorology this week there's a heat wave being experienced across
the territory like Home and Catherine, I think they're up
to forty one, So more air cons, more fans, more
pool pumps going to be used, and obviously to cool
(05:41):
people down and to keep people at a safe place
when it's high temperatures. That also puts a lot of
stress and loading on the systems. So being able to
identify that show those warnings, and we're at the opposite
in the dry season Katie, and particularly our springs in
the winter when there's not a lot of energy use
other than the heating, because there's so much done that
(06:02):
their soulars are working and there's not always that output
for the extra energy. So there's a really fine balance
that and I learned many years ago when I have
the energy renewables portfolio. There's a really fine mix. But
the work that people do in that territory generation with
our obviously retailer, with Chakana and of course Power and
Water Corporation, the work that they do to collaborate as
(06:24):
our government owned corporations with some of those other energy
providers in the territory is so important. So when we
do have weeks or months like this, when the territory
unfortunately is getting hotter year after year. The energy can
be followed and tracked and seeing what is stable, and
then also putting out those warnings so people are aware,
you know, if you're not at home, turn off your
(06:45):
air gone or turn off your fans, etc. Whatever those
savings measures and energy measures are. You know, just getting
people aware of that I think is really important.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Selena, A couple of quick ones before I let you
go this morning. I know that that Cat macnamara, the
members and Nightcliffe introduced emotion to censure the Deputy Chief
Minister yesterday. I'm saying that the well for his ongoing aggressive,
threatening behavior in the chamber. She said, primarily to the
women on the cross bench. I mean, do you think
(07:15):
that the Deputy Chief Minister needs to be censured here
or do you think that the new member of Parliament
Cat McNamara needs to toughen up.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I think there was some quite concerning behavior last week
by Jared maybe the Deputy Chief Minister, which was predominantly
what was the focus of Cat McNamara's motion, the censure
motion that went before the House yesterday. I think it
is probably poor choice by the government not to accept
that censure because that's when you can talk it out
(07:46):
and really get to the crux of that issue, and
we're talking about those key leadership roles of the government.
I think it's really important that you know, people don't
just see a five or ten second grab of our politicians,
that we really get to delve into the issues. I
do know that some of the cross Bench have gone
to the parliamentary process to flag their concerns. I think
(08:07):
this is another measure to bring out and highlight or
low light whatever you want to look at it, the
concerns that they have. And it is a very unique workplace.
We've spoken about it before, Katie, and there are lots
of ups and downs. There's not a lot of processes
around behavior like that, so I think they've done some
different I understand that I'm not gonna speak for casual
(08:30):
Justine at all is on the cross bench, but I
think there has been ways to flag that. I mean,
in the past, when I've felt like the workplace was
not a supportive environment for me, I've stood up and
done a ten minute adjournment about that to let people know.
Because sometimes you think we get to talk and figure
around the Northern territory, but we also need to be
(08:51):
able to feel that we're empowered to do that until sake.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So I mean, do you think that we run the
risk here of actually not having healthy debate inside the Parliament? Like,
don't get me wrong, you know, I literally some days
I have stand up arguments with people in this studio.
I mean, I haven't had one with you, and I
hope I don't have to, but I definitely have over
the years. But I've also seen in parliament, you know,
(09:15):
over the last sort of fifteen years, because I worked
as a labor staff for many, many years ago, and
I've seen, I've got to tell you, a lot worse
than what I've seen over the last year.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, And I think you hit the nail on the
head there, Katie. Healthy debate and when debate feels unhealthy
for someone. It's not for me to say how another member,
especially another female member of Parliament feels, But in terms
of when people don't feel that they're able to voice,
it doesn't matter what work environment. Obviously we're on a
very different stage and we're in we're in the spotlight
(09:49):
all the time as politicians, but that healthy debate is
so important and when it becomes unhealthy, and I have
seen that. I have seen some very toxic behavior in
words and behave in in the parliament. And you know,
I'm no age. We know that becomes unhealthy. I think
that is the issue, and that's really what I think.
Kat McNamara articulated through her motion and we were prepared
(10:13):
to support it. It didn't get up. The government did
accept that, so we weren't able to have that ongoing debate.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Key, hey, really quick one before I let you go
the well. The Senator Lydia Thorpe in the Federal Parliament
has referred the Northern Territory Attorney General, Marie Claire Boothby
to the nt IKAC following allegations of government interference in
media communications from the Supreme Court. Now she's talking about
(10:39):
elite email from the NTS top judge asked asking the
Attorney General's department not to interfere with the Court's media activities.
That's according to a report by the ABC. Now. Both
parties later said it was a misunderstanding which has been resolved.
Senator Thorpe then accusing Miss Boothby of undermining the independence
of the judiciary and the separation of powers. Also obviously
(11:01):
referring to her not initially declaring the conflict of interest
in terms of Jake Danby being her sister's step son.
What do you make of these calls by Lydia? I
know that the last time she sort of delved into
Northern Territory politics, it was calling you a man as
(11:23):
the Attorney General. I mean, what do you make of it?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I think she called me a white man.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I think she did it.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Couldn't remember. I got the transcript of it and everything.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
And you shut her down afterwards. I mean, you shut
her right down.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I definitely did, And I mean that probably irks people
that most is when we have people from outside the
territory talking about territory issues. But in terms of this
particular issue, Katie, I think that, you know, I would
never say I agree necessarily with sender the thought, but
I think I agree with the issue being a concern
for Territorians when we do talk about separations of power
(11:57):
and the judiciary and the lawmakers, which we are as
members of the Northern Territory Parliament, if there is any
blurred line or crossover that needs to be addressed, and
we haven't heard any of that come from the Attorney
General and more disturbingly, Katie, we haven't heard any of
that from Lisanocchio. As the Chief Minister, she should be
standing up and saying this is absolutely not part of
(12:19):
what our government does. We will never overreach like she
needs to be strong on this, and we need to
see that from the Attorney General of course, but if
she's the crux of the complaint and the issue and
the concern, we need to hear that from the Chief
Minister and the Deputy Chief Minister to reassure territorians. What
other Australians think about the territory is their business, but
to reassure territories that that separation of power is respected
(12:40):
and it will not be crossed.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Selina Yu Both the Opposition leader. I better let you
go get into Parliament. Thanks so much for your time
this morning.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Thank you very much, Katie.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Thank you
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