Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now we know anyone over eighteen who's wanting to buy
a vape legally is now able to do so at
a pharmacy without a script.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
But it's under these.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Changes that took effect from the first of October. The
sale of vapes outside of pharmacies was banned in Australia
in July, with people needing a prescription to get one
until now. But they won't be well the fruity or
sweet flavors that many vapors are used to, with pharmacists
restricted to just plain packaging and nicotine limits, with mint,
(00:30):
methanol and tobacco flavors now joining us on the line
to tell us a little bit more about the changes
and how it's sort of traveling so far.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I know it's only a couple of days.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
It is the Pharmacy Guild of the Northern Territories President,
Peter Hatswell.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Good morning, Peter, Good morning Katie. And before we start,
I just thought i'd correct you. It's not methanol's flavored,
it's menthol.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Menthol.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Well, that probably tastes I don't know how that tastes, Peter,
because I'm not a vapor Yeah, I've literally got no
idea probably, and hence my lack of pronunciation skills with
it as well.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now tell me how have the how have the changes
been going?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Initially, it's all happened and it's everyone had a little
bit of notice. The guidelines for how pharmacists could handle
an S three request has been distributed. It's quite lengthy,
it's very complicated, and I don't think many as people
who want to just grab it and go are going
(01:30):
to be too happy. They're going to have to sit
through a good console because the reason why people are
allowed to get it through S three is for nicotine
addiction therapy. So it's going to be and they're going
to probably be asked to try other options as well,
which are safer vapes. I mean, it was a bit
of a bit of a problem when you're taking a
(01:51):
dangerous thing like cigarettes and replacing it with a dangerous
thing like vapes. Aapes do cause harm. Aerialized oil into
the lungs is not that greater idea, but we are
where we are, and then people do like them, so
if they go to their pharmacy, they have to find
out if the pharmacy does carry them for Schedule three
(02:12):
sale because not all pharmacies are wanting to go down
that path and tell me see how we go.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
How like over those first few days, how have the
changes been received by customers and by people coming in?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Have you had much feedback?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I think the going prescription only certainly slowed up. You know,
I guess the number of rapes that were being sold anecdotally,
I know some people who used to buy them all
the time that have now turned us smoking instead, because
that's what's going to happen. I guess. The other thing is,
I guess they're being illegal. Would have been good if
(02:48):
they could have stopped them from being sold, but the
black market continues and people are just selling them openly
in shops. That needs to be clamped down on. And
I believe the government is looking at that. But the customer, look,
I really haven't gone out there and said, okay, what
are you doing? Except for the ones. I know that
it's turned the cigarettes, but it's got to be if
(03:09):
you really like them, it's and you're addicted to tobacco,
it's either get off the get off the nicotine, or
find I mean, the black market's always there, and that's
that's a sad thing. And hopefully the kids can't access that.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, and that's that's a big thing, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I Mean that's something that everybody's been wanting to sort
of clamp down on, is young people being.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Able to access those vapes.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
You mentioned though, that by the sounds of it, people
are still just selling them freely at the moment.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
That's what I've heard that. You know, you can still
see people wandering around the kids particularly that are still
wandering around with vapes, so someone selling them or they've
stopped up so many, which I kind of doubt, you know,
kids don't do that sort of thing. That's our ahead. Yeah,
that they've stopped them up when they were available, and
that was that's months and months ago.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Now now in terms of when you touched on this
as well, just a moment ago. But in terms of
you know, whether chemists and pharmacies have to sell the vapes,
are they able to opt out?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yeah, sorry, they don't have to at all. That is
entirely their discretion. Pharmacies can choose to sell them as
a schedule three. They can also choose to continue selling
them as Schedule fourth. Some have decided to stay selling
them on prescription only and then but not sell them
over the counter, and it's quite a bit of a
time component, and a lot of pharmacies would have to
(04:32):
charge for that time, and they're not comfortable in doing that.
They probably just won't sell them at all. And there
are I think pretty much the majority of pharmacies have
chosen not to sell them as Schedule three at all,
and there are literally only a few in Darwin that
have said that they'll continue doing it.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah. Right, How do you feel or how big an
impact do you think that these changes are going to
have when it comes to kids getting their hands on vapes.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Oh, that's a bit of a prediction. I really hope
it works. I think that's that would be a great thing.
But he who knows kids are pretty you know, persistent,
and they'll figure ways around things if they really want
to do it. But let's put as many blocks in
the way and clamp down on those people who are
(05:22):
selling them illegally. That really has to stop.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, and Peter in terms of you know, like because
these were massive changes, and the changes really were sort
of lumped on pharmacists to some degree, as you and I,
you know, I've spoken about previously. Has there been much
support provided to pharmacists that are selling vapes.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
They've got the guidelines. They you know, it is their choice.
We make sure they understand what they're getting into, so
they know that, you know, they need to effectively counsel
and talk to patients and go through the whole process
of making sure they're getting it reasons that you know,
there's controls on how many they can get at the time.
(06:04):
I think there needs to be tracking of where people.
If someone does get vapes from one pharmacy, they can't
just turn around and go to the next door pharmacy
and do it again. There needs to be sort of
record keeping and access to pharmacists to know that patients
already had their allocation. There is a limit to how
long they can get it for before they need to
(06:24):
go back to a doctor anyway and get a prescription.
So all that's all out there doing it. So pharmacists,
I said, even pharmacists said yes, I'm going to sell
them S three. Once they looked at the guide, they said, yeah,
probably not. It's just too much of a problem and
the risk is always so there. If they've got you know,
quite a few vapes for sale and S three are
(06:46):
they going to get ram rated are they going to
get held up? You know that all those sorts of things.
No one wants to be in that situation.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
No, absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Hey, Peter, before I let you go this morning, I
know that before the Northern Territory election, the COLP had
said that they were going to introduce the changes when
it comes to easier access for people to be able
to get scripts. Has there been much movement in that
space since the election.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yes, it's moving ahead. We have got commitment from the
cop and they've indicated to us they're going to follow
through with that. They're obviously trying to get all that
the sort of legislative stuff and what they need to
have happen make that happen. We've also been working hard
on making sure the educational component is ready to go
(07:30):
as soon as it's announced and we've got a date
that we can start. It's only been about thirty five
days when they did announce it, and they said they
would do it within the first one hundred days, so
they've got a little bit of time yet. Yeah, it's
going to happen before the year's out. We're going to
see the first thing is going to be the availability
of medicines for UTI for infection, and so that's going
(07:54):
to be a great start. That's not a huge educational requirement,
so a lot of it is going to be jumping on.
That's also the our conceptive is going to be available
at that time. And then the training will start for
the other twenty one conditions and that's a that's a
very expensive training process, intense and it will go for
(08:16):
between nine and twelve months. So we'll see that pharmacists
getting their accreditation for prescribing probably towards the end of
next year the first instance. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Right, So it does all sound like it's like it's
forging ahead and happening, and that seems like, I mean,
from your perspective, from the Pharmacy Guild's perspective, that is
a positive step business.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I think it's a positive step for pharmacist. It's positive
step for the public. It's the positive step for the
government because it's going to reduce and GPS might not
like it, but it's going to help them. Mean, they're
overwhelmed with patients and they've got wait times of you
two and three weeks. You know, this is going to
take that sort of edge off of that. The Emergency
(08:58):
Department won't be seeing people that really need to get
their UTO medicine soon, because it's very important that antibiotics
has started as quickly as possible. There's lots of reasons
for that, and it's going to help to make all
that happen so patient for other winners. Here. It's as
safe and effective and it's been done in many places
in the world UK, Canada and New Zealand with great success,
(09:22):
and Queensland are already up and running. There are pharmacists
in Queensland that are now prescribing. That's moving ahead quickly.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
To me, it seems like a good move, and I
know that they're you know, like with any change, there's
always some that maybe don't agree. But to me it
seems like a good move. As somebody who you know
from time to time does have to book into the
GP to sort of, you know, just to update a
script that doesn't seem like it's a very serious sort
of thing to have to update, you know, sometimes it
would just be easier to be able to duck into
(09:51):
the pharmacy answer some of those questions and to be
able to make that happen.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Absolutely, there's every pharmacy that's going to be prescribing will
have a private console room, so you know you're out,
you're alone with the pharmacists and going through your history.
All that history will be recorded down, put online and
with the patient's permissions shared with their GP. Anything that
the pharmacist is not comfortable about, it doesn't look that
doesn't look right, and it's like, okay, what else could
(10:17):
be going on here, Well they can red flag it
and refer them straight onto their GP where they're going
to get the best care. So all the safety aspects,
it's a safe process. And pharmacists are already they're medical
professionals that are well trained in medications and patients and
they know their patients well, they're going to be able
to do this properly and safely.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Well Pharmacy Guild and to President Peter Hatswell, always good
to catch up with you.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Thank you so much, Katie, thank you
Now we know anyone over eighteen who's wanting to buy
a vape legally is now able to do so at
a pharmacy without a script.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
But it's under these.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Changes that took effect from the first of October. The
sale of vapes outside of pharmacies was banned in Australia
in July, with people needing a prescription to get one
until now. But they won't be well the fruity or
sweet flavors that many vapors are used to, with pharmacists
restricted to just plain packaging and nicotine limits, with mint,
(00:30):
methanol and tobacco flavors now joining us on the line
to tell us a little bit more about the changes
and how it's sort of traveling so far.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I know it's only a couple of days.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
It is the Pharmacy Guild of the Northern Territories President,
Peter Hatswell.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Good morning, Peter, Good morning Katie. And before we start,
I just thought i'd correct you. It's not methanol's flavored,
it's menthol.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Menthol.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Well, that probably tastes I don't know how that tastes, Peter,
because I'm not a vapor Yeah, I've literally got no
idea probably, and hence my lack of pronunciation skills with
it as well.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Now tell me how have the how have the changes
been going?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Initially, it's all happened and it's everyone had a little
bit of notice. The guidelines for how pharmacists could handle
an S three request has been distributed. It's quite lengthy,
it's very complicated, and I don't think many as people
who want to just grab it and go are going
(01:30):
to be too happy. They're going to have to sit
through a good console because the reason why people are
allowed to get it through S three is for nicotine
addiction therapy. So it's going to be and they're going
to probably be asked to try other options as well,
which are safer vapes. I mean, it was a bit
of a bit of a problem when you're taking a
(01:51):
dangerous thing like cigarettes and replacing it with a dangerous
thing like vapes. Aapes do cause harm. Aerialized oil into
the lungs is not that greater idea, but we are
where we are, and then people do like them, so
if they go to their pharmacy, they have to find
out if the pharmacy does carry them for Schedule three
(02:12):
sale because not all pharmacies are wanting to go down
that path and tell me see how we go.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
How like over those first few days, how have the
changes been received by customers and by people coming in?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Have you had much feedback?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I think the going prescription only certainly slowed up. You know,
I guess the number of rapes that were being sold anecdotally,
I know some people who used to buy them all
the time that have now turned us smoking instead, because
that's what's going to happen. I guess. The other thing is,
I guess they're being illegal. Would have been good if
(02:48):
they could have stopped them from being sold, but the
black market continues and people are just selling them openly
in shops. That needs to be clamped down on. And
I believe the government is looking at that. But the customer, look,
I really haven't gone out there and said, okay, what
are you doing? Except for the ones. I know that
it's turned the cigarettes, but it's got to be if
(03:09):
you really like them, it's and you're addicted to tobacco,
it's either get off the get off the nicotine, or
find I mean, the black market's always there, and that's
that's a sad thing. And hopefully the kids can't access that.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, and that's that's a big thing, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I Mean that's something that everybody's been wanting to sort
of clamp down on, is young people being.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Able to access those vapes.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
You mentioned though, that by the sounds of it, people
are still just selling them freely at the moment.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
That's what I've heard that. You know, you can still
see people wandering around the kids particularly that are still
wandering around with vapes, so someone selling them or they've
stopped up so many, which I kind of doubt, you know,
kids don't do that sort of thing. That's our ahead. Yeah,
that they've stopped them up when they were available, and
that was that's months and months ago.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Now now in terms of when you touched on this
as well, just a moment ago. But in terms of
you know, whether chemists and pharmacies have to sell the vapes,
are they able to opt out?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yeah, sorry, they don't have to at all. That is
entirely their discretion. Pharmacies can choose to sell them as
a schedule three. They can also choose to continue selling
them as Schedule fourth. Some have decided to stay selling
them on prescription only and then but not sell them
over the counter, and it's quite a bit of a
time component, and a lot of pharmacies would have to
(04:32):
charge for that time, and they're not comfortable in doing that.
They probably just won't sell them at all. And there
are I think pretty much the majority of pharmacies have
chosen not to sell them as Schedule three at all,
and there are literally only a few in Darwin that
have said that they'll continue doing it.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah. Right, How do you feel or how big an
impact do you think that these changes are going to
have when it comes to kids getting their hands on vapes.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Oh, that's a bit of a prediction. I really hope
it works. I think that's that would be a great thing.
But he who knows kids are pretty you know, persistent,
and they'll figure ways around things if they really want
to do it. But let's put as many blocks in
the way and clamp down on those people who are
(05:22):
selling them illegally. That really has to stop.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, and Peter in terms of you know, like because
these were massive changes, and the changes really were sort
of lumped on pharmacists to some degree, as you and I,
you know, I've spoken about previously. Has there been much
support provided to pharmacists that are selling vapes.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
They've got the guidelines. They you know, it is their choice.
We make sure they understand what they're getting into, so
they know that, you know, they need to effectively counsel
and talk to patients and go through the whole process
of making sure they're getting it reasons that you know,
there's controls on how many they can get at the time.
(06:04):
I think there needs to be tracking of where people.
If someone does get vapes from one pharmacy, they can't
just turn around and go to the next door pharmacy
and do it again. There needs to be sort of
record keeping and access to pharmacists to know that patients
already had their allocation. There is a limit to how
long they can get it for before they need to
(06:24):
go back to a doctor anyway and get a prescription.
So all that's all out there doing it. So pharmacists,
I said, even pharmacists said yes, I'm going to sell
them S three. Once they looked at the guide, they said, yeah,
probably not. It's just too much of a problem and
the risk is always so there. If they've got you know,
quite a few vapes for sale and S three are
(06:46):
they going to get ram rated are they going to
get held up? You know that all those sorts of things.
No one wants to be in that situation.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
No, absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Hey, Peter, before I let you go this morning, I
know that before the Northern Territory election, the COLP had
said that they were going to introduce the changes when
it comes to easier access for people to be able
to get scripts. Has there been much movement in that
space since the election.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yes, it's moving ahead. We have got commitment from the
cop and they've indicated to us they're going to follow
through with that. They're obviously trying to get all that
the sort of legislative stuff and what they need to
have happen make that happen. We've also been working hard
on making sure the educational component is ready to go
(07:30):
as soon as it's announced and we've got a date
that we can start. It's only been about thirty five
days when they did announce it, and they said they
would do it within the first one hundred days, so
they've got a little bit of time yet. Yeah, it's
going to happen before the year's out. We're going to
see the first thing is going to be the availability
of medicines for UTI for infection, and so that's going
(07:54):
to be a great start. That's not a huge educational requirement,
so a lot of it is going to be jumping on.
That's also the our conceptive is going to be available
at that time. And then the training will start for
the other twenty one conditions and that's a that's a
very expensive training process, intense and it will go for
(08:16):
between nine and twelve months. So we'll see that pharmacists
getting their accreditation for prescribing probably towards the end of
next year the first instance. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Right, So it does all sound like it's like it's
forging ahead and happening, and that seems like, I mean,
from your perspective, from the Pharmacy Guild's perspective, that is
a positive step business.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I think it's a positive step for pharmacist. It's positive
step for the public. It's the positive step for the
government because it's going to reduce and GPS might not
like it, but it's going to help them. Mean, they're
overwhelmed with patients and they've got wait times of you
two and three weeks. You know, this is going to
take that sort of edge off of that. The Emergency
(08:58):
Department won't be seeing people that really need to get
their UTO medicine soon, because it's very important that antibiotics
has started as quickly as possible. There's lots of reasons
for that, and it's going to help to make all
that happen so patient for other winners. Here. It's as
safe and effective and it's been done in many places
in the world UK, Canada and New Zealand with great success,
(09:22):
and Queensland are already up and running. There are pharmacists
in Queensland that are now prescribing. That's moving ahead quickly.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
To me, it seems like a good move, and I
know that they're you know, like with any change, there's
always some that maybe don't agree. But to me it
seems like a good move. As somebody who you know
from time to time does have to book into the
GP to sort of, you know, just to update a
script that doesn't seem like it's a very serious sort
of thing to have to update, you know, sometimes it
would just be easier to be able to duck into
(09:51):
the pharmacy answer some of those questions and to be
able to make that happen.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Absolutely, there's every pharmacy that's going to be prescribing will
have a private console room, so you know you're out,
you're alone with the pharmacists and going through your history.
All that history will be recorded down, put online and
with the patient's permissions shared with their GP. Anything that
the pharmacist is not comfortable about, it doesn't look that
doesn't look right, and it's like, okay, what else could
(10:17):
be going on here, Well they can red flag it
and refer them straight onto their GP where they're going
to get the best care. So all the safety aspects,
it's a safe process. And pharmacists are already they're medical
professionals that are well trained in medications and patients and
they know their patients well, they're going to be able
to do this properly and safely.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Well Pharmacy Guild and to President Peter Hatswell, always good
to catch up with you.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Thank you so much, Katie, thank you
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