Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, as we've been talking about, we know, there were
thirty two recommendations handed down as part of the summary
of the twelve chapter six hundred odd pages of findings
into the death of kumen Ji Walker, the coroner obviously
breaking those findings down into three key sections, calling on
the Northern Territory government to review youth services in New
(00:22):
and Demu, expand night patrols, provide on country rehabilitation and
youth diversion, as well as develop a ten year plan
for youth addressing the factors that contribute to crime. We
know as well, there are a number of recommendations for
the Northern Territory Police, the Police Force issuing a statement
acknowledging those findings and the recommendations. Now joining us on
(00:43):
the show is the Northern Territori's Acting Police Commissioner, Martin Dole.
Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Good morning Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Now, Acting Commissioner, what was your reaction to the recommendations
that were handed down.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Well, there's no real surprises in there for us, Katie,
But I suppose what I want to say is it's
not about defending the organization. It's about acknowledging the past,
understanding community expectations, and improving the way that we please.
So we know that trust doesn't come from a press
release or a single moment. It's earned slowly and genuinely
(01:16):
over time.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I mean, it's I guess it's a difficult juggle in
a lot of ways at the moment because you've got
real issues in the community when it comes to crime
that the police are dealing with every single day. You know,
you've got a situation where where this tragic incident has unfolded.
The coroner obviously recommending a number of different measures. Is
(01:43):
it going to take quite some time to work through
these measures but also sort of work through what can
realistically be implemented in what can't.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, Katie, So we acknowledge the aiding recommendations for the
Norn Territory Police and we'll give each one of them
serious consideration moving forward. Some reforms are already underway, including
the finalization of an anti racism strategy. But this case
has already caused deep reflection and change within the Northern
Territory Police Force. But this change must continue. So this
(02:15):
moment reinforces the work that is still needed.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Acting Commissioner, we know that the coroner found institutional racism
inside the Northern Territory Police Force. She'd said, thanks in
part to mister Rolf's revelations at the inquest about the
Anti Elite Tactical Response Group's past practice of giving out
awards at the end of year celebration, she said, I
(02:40):
find that mister Rolf was racist and that he worked
in and was the beneficiary of an organization with hallmarks
of institutional racism. What do you say to.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
That, Well, Katie, we're not shying away of the findings
or what's been said by the coroner, and we understand
that what's been said due this inquest will stay with
the public. We accept the challenges that come with that,
and we won't show away from that. Our response is
not about spin. It's about acknowledging what needs to change
(03:11):
and doing the work to fix it.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Some of the recommendations that have been made, I know
that there is already work that's sort of been gone through.
As you said, they're the anti Racism Strategy, as well
as the ongoing delivery of cultural awareness and anti racism
training and the creation of a Cultural Reform Command. Do
(03:34):
you believe that the creation of these things and undertaking
of this work is going to bridge any gaps where
you do have members of the community that could ultimately
feel as though some members of the police force act
in a in a racist way.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Look, Katie, I think we must recognize that trust between
police and Aboriginal communities has been fractured and in some
places definitely more than others. But it's our job to
rebuild that trust through consistent, honest and respectful policing. We
don't expect trust to be given freely, and we know
that it must be.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
In how do you also then juggle that when you've
Like the association joined us on the show a little
bit earlier this morning, they said, we also cannot turn
away from the difficult truths. The reality is that police
are left to deal with the consequences of systemic failures,
and they're the ones who are regularly confronted by abusive
(04:30):
and violent behavior, and they're the ones who must protect
the community, often at a significant personal and emotional cost.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, Katie, Look, so we're committed to reform, and this
includes better training, better engagement with the Aboriginal communities, and
a renewed focus on cultural understanding. But it's also important
to note that the coroner made comment in her findings
on member welfare, and that's also wrapped up in responsibility
for the agency and something that we need to look
at as well.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Look, one of the other recommendations was that the Northern
Territory Government implement mandatory drug and alcohol testing for police
after crucial incidents to bring us in line with other jurisdictions.
Is that something that you'd welcome.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Like I said, I probably won't address any of the
individual and in recommendations directed at the police, but to
say that we acknowledge all of those recommendations and we'll
be working through those with the Northern Territory Government, including
the broader thirty two wider recommendations that are focused on
other agencies in the Northern Territory Government.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I know that the coroner also recommended the Northern Territory
Police Force include policies for officers around carrying AR fifteen
semi automatic assault rifles, strengthening as you've touched on there,
the anti racism strategy, tailored cultural training, development of a
debrief and welfare policy for deaths in custody, and for
(05:53):
all members to do remote postings of four months in
their first three years of employment with the force. Now
as I know you have just said there needs to
be some extensive work to get through all of the
recommendations that have been made. But first off, I mean,
what do you make of the concerns around guns in
the community. Do you think that, I mean, like, ultimately
(06:17):
do police need them?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Look, I think rather than go to the individual recommendations again, Katie,
there's been extensive evidence taken in the cronial process on this.
I gave some evidence myself in the cronial process about
guns on communities. I think what I'll do is go
back to what I said is we acknowledge the eight
en recommendations in full directed at the non territory police,
and we'll give each one of them serious consideration moving forward.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
All right, but not committing to them at this point
in time.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Like I said, Well, we acknowledge all of them, and
we'll give each of them serious consideration and we'll see
what's possible moving forward.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
The Northern Territory's Aboriginal lead Legal Service say that the
coroner has not gone far enough in her recommendations. NAJA
reckon that they're disappointed that the coroner has not recommended
an independent oversight body to police the Northern Territory police
and to drive structural change in the police force. Do
(07:11):
you think we need an independent oversight body?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Well, Katie, I think I've been on records talking about
the oversight bodies that already exist within the Northern Territory,
and there's quite strict and rigid controls already that investigate police.
We've got the Independent Commissioner against Corruption and we've also
got the Northern Territory Onwardsman. You know, we acknowledge all
of the commentary in the findings from the coroner, and
(07:35):
as I said, we'll consider everything that has been said
in that and work towards what can be implemented. I'm
sure as other agencies and I'm sure as the Anti
government will do as well.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Well. Yeah, and look, you know, I sort of you know,
I tend to think the way that you are at
the moment, how many oversight bodies do we actually need
in the Northern Territory. And I get what Najor is saying, however,
you've already got I mean, we've just literally gone through
this whole coronial process. There's six hundred odd pages to
(08:05):
be able to read through. I just don't really know
what another independent oversight body would do as I say,
I get what Najor is saying there, but yeah, I
just don't know whether it's actually required.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, look, Katie, i'd agree. I mean I've talked to
some federal politicians in relation to you know, oversight, independent
oversight of police investigations, and I said, we're not saying
we don't support that, but if that conversation was to
commence federally, then of course we'd be involved in that.
But I don't have a position at the moment. Like
(08:38):
I've said, I think the mechanisms in place already in
the Northern Territory are fairly robust, and we've seen that
born out.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Acting Commissioner, Can you talk us through some of the
internal reforms that you are currently working on within the
Northern Territory Police Force. I mean, as we touched on earlier,
we know that many of the findings and many of
the recommendations probably were a huge surprise in a lot
of ways, particularly for the Northern Territory Police in terms
of being involved in and sitting through the coronial inquest process.
(09:09):
But what work is actually underway right now to try
to make sure that we do not see this situation
happen again.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, thanks, Katie. Look, cultural change in any police force
is hard and it takes time. That that's not an
excuse to not confront issues directly, and we're doing that.
So what we've already done is we've built cultural awareness
and any Racism training and that's already started to be
rolled out across the Northern Territory Police Force and territory
(09:38):
wide programs have started to be delivered. We've changed our
recruitment and training reforms and we've got new entry and
training pathways to better prepare recruits for their roles and
responsibilities of policing in diverse communities. And we've created the
Cultural Reform Unit led by Executive Director Leanne Little, and
Leanne is leading a body of work in to a
(10:00):
lot of that cultural competency training that we're doing to
better our police force and better prepare our members for
what they're to expect when they're out there policing.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
And is some of that work going to be made
public so people can see what exactly the Northern Territory
Police are doing in this space.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It absolutely is, Katie, And very soon you'll see our
nearly finalized any Racism strategy out there for public commentary.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Okay, we'll keep an eye out for that. Tell me
how are the Northern Territory Police going when working towards
that target of thirty percent representation of Aboriginal people within
the force.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yep, Katie, We've got about thirteen percent Aboriginal employment across
the Northern Territory Police Force and that's made up of
a variety of employees from sworn members to administrative staff
to executive leadership within the Northern Territory Police Force. So
that's something that we're committed to achieving and we're doing
everything we can to ensure that the police force is
(10:53):
a safe work environment and we can attract as many
Aboriginal people to positions right across the Northern Territory Police Force.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Acting. You faced a bit of criticism earlier this week
from Ned Hargraves and some within the un Demux community
that you'd left before what was reported as a pre
organized meeting with him and other community leaders.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
What happened, Yeah, Katie, Look, and I've said I'm sorry
that mister Hargraves feels that way, and there was no
intent to disrespect mister Hargraves or any of the other
community members in relation to that. But I at the
conclusion of the findings, I spoke to several of the
elders of the community and we discussed that the family
were quite occupied in digesting the findings. They were having
(11:36):
meetings with lawyers that were having meetings amongst themselves, and
they advised me in consultation that was probably better for
those conversations to happen at a later date. So I
took that on board and we left, so there was
no running away or disengaging from and Ned, and I
apologized that he was left to feel that.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Way where too from here acting Commissioner, because I feel
like we're in a difficulty situation in the Northern Territory.
As I touched on before, we know that we have
got incredibly high rates of crime in the NT. We
unfortunately see quite a high representation of crime committed by
(12:14):
Indigenous people in the Northern Territory. That has been well documented.
We know that our Northern Territory Police, you know, they
juggle a really tough job and that's also been exemplified
through another coronial inquest, which is still to have those
recommendations handed down. I mean, how do you, as the
(12:35):
acting Northern Territory Police Commissioner ensure that you are indeed
and that our force is indeed serving the entire Northern
Territory community.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, thanks, Katie. Look, so we know that Crimen Joe
Walker's death has changed how many people see us. We're
not running from that. We're confronting it with honesty and
a willingness to be better. So we're committed to training,
better engagement with Aboriginal communities, and a renewed focus on
cultural understanding. But it's also important to look at what
(13:08):
we committed to doing for our membership as well, and
that includes our early intervention program and our member welfare program.
This has been a long journey for the family of
Kumen Joe Walker, for the wider U in the Moo community,
in the world, we nation, but also for the wider
Northern Territory Police Force. Here we are nearly six years
after the initial incident occurred, and we started our reform
(13:31):
as soon as this commenced. So we're a very different
police force than we were in twenty nineteen, and that
journey continues.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
I know that the Police Association had said on the
show earlier this morning as well. You know that there
are some changes that they'd like to see proactively supporting officers.
You've just touched on that before. The job takes its toll,
including through regular rotation of high stress operational roles and
identifying at risk members to provide early intervention, unseling, fatigue
(14:01):
management and support services, as well as the implementation and
enforcing clear, consistent policies that address and correct poor behavior
within the force. There's a lot of information for you
as the acting Commissioner to get through, not only with
those recommendations, but of course with what the association has said.
I mean, how important is it do you think that
(14:22):
you do indeed implement those you know, those measures that
the association are calling for as well, Loo Katie.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
We take our relationship with Non Territory Police Association very seriously.
The representative body of over ninety eight percent of our
membership across the police force, so we take that seriously.
But as the commission and police we care about I
care about our entire workforce. So, like I said, we're
listening to the communities and we're listening to what we
(14:52):
can do better, but we're also listening to our membership.
We can't change what happened in twenty nineteen. But what
we can do can change is how we move forward,
and that's our responsibility. That's my responsibility, and it's one
I take seriously.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
We've spoken a lot about the people of EU and
Demu and the hurt that they're obviously feeling in that community,
but I know we hear from a lot of Northern
Territory police officers as well, and I think that for
some at the moment, they are finding it pretty tough.
I mean, the association's president had said that to us
earlier this morning on the show, said that some are questioning,
(15:27):
you know, heading to work. I mean, what do you
say to those police officers that listen to this show
and are listening to you this morning, you know that
are feeling I don't know what the right word is,
maybe a bit broken, a bit fragile.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Right now, Look, Katie, I just thank our hard working
police force for the work that they do every day.
We work in some of the most challenging conditions and
environments across Australia and our people keep showing up day
after day, shift after shift. So I just thank them
for the work that they do, that that they have done.
I'll just take this opportunity again to thank all of
(16:03):
the members of the police force that gave evidence during
this inquest. It's been a three year process. It's been
very hard on the community, the family of Kumu Joe Walker,
but the wider police force, and I thank those officers
for their honesty and their direct evidence and confronting evidence
at times in the cronial process. But like I said,
this is not about defending the organization or individual people
(16:24):
that feel aggrieved. It's about acknowledging what was borne out
by that evidence, accepting it and saying we're going to
do things better as we move forward.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
And just in response to what the Northern Territory Police
Association see with them saying a number of members say
that they can't continue policing after all of this, I mean,
from your perspective, is that the case.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Look, Katie, I think there'll be individual reactions and people
will feel very different to findings and to commentary that's
come out. But it's not about individuals being defensive. It's
about all organization being willing to learn, even when that's uncomfortable,
and doing what we can to address those uncomfortable truths
that have come out and what can we do to
(17:09):
change moving forward.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Well, Acting Northern Territory Police Commissioner Martin Dole really appreciate
your time this morning. Thanks for joining us, Thanks Katie,
Thanks for your Tom. Thank you
Now, as we've been talking about, we know, there were
thirty two recommendations handed down as part of the summary
of the twelve chapter six hundred odd pages of findings
into the death of kumen Ji Walker, the coroner obviously
breaking those findings down into three key sections, calling on
the Northern Territory government to review youth services in New
(00:22):
and Demu, expand night patrols, provide on country rehabilitation and
youth diversion, as well as develop a ten year plan
for youth addressing the factors that contribute to crime. We
know as well, there are a number of recommendations for
the Northern Territory Police, the Police Force issuing a statement
acknowledging those findings and the recommendations. Now joining us on
(00:43):
the show is the Northern Territori's Acting Police Commissioner, Martin Dole.
Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Good morning Katie.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Now, Acting Commissioner, what was your reaction to the recommendations
that were handed down.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Well, there's no real surprises in there for us, Katie,
But I suppose what I want to say is it's
not about defending the organization. It's about acknowledging the past,
understanding community expectations, and improving the way that we please.
So we know that trust doesn't come from a press
release or a single moment. It's earned slowly and genuinely
(01:16):
over time.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I mean, it's I guess it's a difficult juggle in
a lot of ways at the moment because you've got
real issues in the community when it comes to crime
that the police are dealing with every single day. You know,
you've got a situation where where this tragic incident has unfolded.
The coroner obviously recommending a number of different measures. Is
(01:43):
it going to take quite some time to work through
these measures but also sort of work through what can
realistically be implemented in what can't.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, Katie, So we acknowledge the aiding recommendations for the
Norn Territory Police and we'll give each one of them
serious consideration moving forward. Some reforms are already underway, including
the finalization of an anti racism strategy. But this case
has already caused deep reflection and change within the Northern
Territory Police Force. But this change must continue. So this
(02:15):
moment reinforces the work that is still needed.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Acting Commissioner, we know that the coroner found institutional racism
inside the Northern Territory Police Force. She'd said, thanks in
part to mister Rolf's revelations at the inquest about the
Anti Elite Tactical Response Group's past practice of giving out
awards at the end of year celebration, she said, I
(02:40):
find that mister Rolf was racist and that he worked
in and was the beneficiary of an organization with hallmarks
of institutional racism. What do you say to.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
That, Well, Katie, we're not shying away of the findings
or what's been said by the coroner, and we understand
that what's been said due this inquest will stay with
the public. We accept the challenges that come with that,
and we won't show away from that. Our response is
not about spin. It's about acknowledging what needs to change
(03:11):
and doing the work to fix it.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Some of the recommendations that have been made, I know
that there is already work that's sort of been gone through.
As you said, they're the anti Racism Strategy, as well
as the ongoing delivery of cultural awareness and anti racism
training and the creation of a Cultural Reform Command. Do
(03:34):
you believe that the creation of these things and undertaking
of this work is going to bridge any gaps where
you do have members of the community that could ultimately
feel as though some members of the police force act
in a in a racist way.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Look, Katie, I think we must recognize that trust between
police and Aboriginal communities has been fractured and in some
places definitely more than others. But it's our job to
rebuild that trust through consistent, honest and respectful policing. We
don't expect trust to be given freely, and we know
that it must be.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
In how do you also then juggle that when you've
Like the association joined us on the show a little
bit earlier this morning, they said, we also cannot turn
away from the difficult truths. The reality is that police
are left to deal with the consequences of systemic failures,
and they're the ones who are regularly confronted by abusive
(04:30):
and violent behavior, and they're the ones who must protect
the community, often at a significant personal and emotional cost.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, Katie, Look, so we're committed to reform, and this
includes better training, better engagement with the Aboriginal communities, and
a renewed focus on cultural understanding. But it's also important
to note that the coroner made comment in her findings
on member welfare, and that's also wrapped up in responsibility
for the agency and something that we need to look
at as well.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Look, one of the other recommendations was that the Northern
Territory Government implement mandatory drug and alcohol testing for police
after crucial incidents to bring us in line with other jurisdictions.
Is that something that you'd welcome.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Like I said, I probably won't address any of the
individual and in recommendations directed at the police, but to
say that we acknowledge all of those recommendations and we'll
be working through those with the Northern Territory Government, including
the broader thirty two wider recommendations that are focused on
other agencies in the Northern Territory Government.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I know that the coroner also recommended the Northern Territory
Police Force include policies for officers around carrying AR fifteen
semi automatic assault rifles, strengthening as you've touched on there,
the anti racism strategy, tailored cultural training, development of a
debrief and welfare policy for deaths in custody, and for
(05:53):
all members to do remote postings of four months in
their first three years of employment with the force. Now
as I know you have just said there needs to
be some extensive work to get through all of the
recommendations that have been made. But first off, I mean,
what do you make of the concerns around guns in
the community. Do you think that, I mean, like, ultimately
(06:17):
do police need them?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Look, I think rather than go to the individual recommendations again, Katie,
there's been extensive evidence taken in the cronial process on this.
I gave some evidence myself in the cronial process about
guns on communities. I think what I'll do is go
back to what I said is we acknowledge the eight
en recommendations in full directed at the non territory police,
and we'll give each one of them serious consideration moving forward.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
All right, but not committing to them at this point
in time.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Like I said, Well, we acknowledge all of them, and
we'll give each of them serious consideration and we'll see
what's possible moving forward.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
The Northern Territory's Aboriginal lead Legal Service say that the
coroner has not gone far enough in her recommendations. NAJA
reckon that they're disappointed that the coroner has not recommended
an independent oversight body to police the Northern Territory police
and to drive structural change in the police force. Do
(07:11):
you think we need an independent oversight body?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Well, Katie, I think I've been on records talking about
the oversight bodies that already exist within the Northern Territory,
and there's quite strict and rigid controls already that investigate police.
We've got the Independent Commissioner against Corruption and we've also
got the Northern Territory Onwardsman. You know, we acknowledge all
of the commentary in the findings from the coroner, and
(07:35):
as I said, we'll consider everything that has been said
in that and work towards what can be implemented. I'm
sure as other agencies and I'm sure as the Anti
government will do as well.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Well. Yeah, and look, you know, I sort of you know,
I tend to think the way that you are at
the moment, how many oversight bodies do we actually need
in the Northern Territory. And I get what Najor is saying, however,
you've already got I mean, we've just literally gone through
this whole coronial process. There's six hundred odd pages to
(08:05):
be able to read through. I just don't really know
what another independent oversight body would do as I say,
I get what Najor is saying there, but yeah, I
just don't know whether it's actually required.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, look, Katie, i'd agree. I mean I've talked to
some federal politicians in relation to you know, oversight, independent
oversight of police investigations, and I said, we're not saying
we don't support that, but if that conversation was to
commence federally, then of course we'd be involved in that.
But I don't have a position at the moment. Like
(08:38):
I've said, I think the mechanisms in place already in
the Northern Territory are fairly robust, and we've seen that
born out.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Acting Commissioner, Can you talk us through some of the
internal reforms that you are currently working on within the
Northern Territory Police Force. I mean, as we touched on earlier,
we know that many of the findings and many of
the recommendations probably were a huge surprise in a lot
of ways, particularly for the Northern Territory Police in terms
of being involved in and sitting through the coronial inquest process.
(09:09):
But what work is actually underway right now to try
to make sure that we do not see this situation
happen again.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yeah, thanks, Katie. Look, cultural change in any police force
is hard and it takes time. That that's not an
excuse to not confront issues directly, and we're doing that.
So what we've already done is we've built cultural awareness
and any Racism training and that's already started to be
rolled out across the Northern Territory Police Force and territory
(09:38):
wide programs have started to be delivered. We've changed our
recruitment and training reforms and we've got new entry and
training pathways to better prepare recruits for their roles and
responsibilities of policing in diverse communities. And we've created the
Cultural Reform Unit led by Executive Director Leanne Little, and
Leanne is leading a body of work in to a
(10:00):
lot of that cultural competency training that we're doing to
better our police force and better prepare our members for
what they're to expect when they're out there policing.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
And is some of that work going to be made
public so people can see what exactly the Northern Territory
Police are doing in this space.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It absolutely is, Katie, And very soon you'll see our
nearly finalized any Racism strategy out there for public commentary.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Okay, we'll keep an eye out for that. Tell me
how are the Northern Territory Police going when working towards
that target of thirty percent representation of Aboriginal people within
the force.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yep, Katie, We've got about thirteen percent Aboriginal employment across
the Northern Territory Police Force and that's made up of
a variety of employees from sworn members to administrative staff
to executive leadership within the Northern Territory Police Force. So
that's something that we're committed to achieving and we're doing
everything we can to ensure that the police force is
(10:53):
a safe work environment and we can attract as many
Aboriginal people to positions right across the Northern Territory Police Force.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Acting. You faced a bit of criticism earlier this week
from Ned Hargraves and some within the un Demux community
that you'd left before what was reported as a pre
organized meeting with him and other community leaders.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
What happened, Yeah, Katie, Look, and I've said I'm sorry
that mister Hargraves feels that way, and there was no
intent to disrespect mister Hargraves or any of the other
community members in relation to that. But I at the
conclusion of the findings, I spoke to several of the
elders of the community and we discussed that the family
were quite occupied in digesting the findings. They were having
(11:36):
meetings with lawyers that were having meetings amongst themselves, and
they advised me in consultation that was probably better for
those conversations to happen at a later date. So I
took that on board and we left, so there was
no running away or disengaging from and Ned, and I
apologized that he was left to feel that.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Way where too from here acting Commissioner, because I feel
like we're in a difficulty situation in the Northern Territory.
As I touched on before, we know that we have
got incredibly high rates of crime in the NT. We
unfortunately see quite a high representation of crime committed by
(12:14):
Indigenous people in the Northern Territory. That has been well documented.
We know that our Northern Territory Police, you know, they
juggle a really tough job and that's also been exemplified
through another coronial inquest, which is still to have those
recommendations handed down. I mean, how do you, as the
(12:35):
acting Northern Territory Police Commissioner ensure that you are indeed
and that our force is indeed serving the entire Northern
Territory community.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, thanks, Katie. Look, so we know that Crimen Joe
Walker's death has changed how many people see us. We're
not running from that. We're confronting it with honesty and
a willingness to be better. So we're committed to training,
better engagement with Aboriginal communities, and a renewed focus on
cultural understanding. But it's also important to look at what
(13:08):
we committed to doing for our membership as well, and
that includes our early intervention program and our member welfare program.
This has been a long journey for the family of
Kumen Joe Walker, for the wider U in the Moo community,
in the world, we nation, but also for the wider
Northern Territory Police Force. Here we are nearly six years
after the initial incident occurred, and we started our reform
(13:31):
as soon as this commenced. So we're a very different
police force than we were in twenty nineteen, and that
journey continues.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
I know that the Police Association had said on the
show earlier this morning as well. You know that there
are some changes that they'd like to see proactively supporting officers.
You've just touched on that before. The job takes its toll,
including through regular rotation of high stress operational roles and
identifying at risk members to provide early intervention, unseling, fatigue
(14:01):
management and support services, as well as the implementation and
enforcing clear, consistent policies that address and correct poor behavior
within the force. There's a lot of information for you
as the acting Commissioner to get through, not only with
those recommendations, but of course with what the association has said.
I mean, how important is it do you think that
(14:22):
you do indeed implement those you know, those measures that
the association are calling for as well, Loo Katie.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
We take our relationship with Non Territory Police Association very seriously.
The representative body of over ninety eight percent of our
membership across the police force, so we take that seriously.
But as the commission and police we care about I
care about our entire workforce. So, like I said, we're
listening to the communities and we're listening to what we
(14:52):
can do better, but we're also listening to our membership.
We can't change what happened in twenty nineteen. But what
we can do can change is how we move forward,
and that's our responsibility. That's my responsibility, and it's one
I take seriously.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
We've spoken a lot about the people of EU and
Demu and the hurt that they're obviously feeling in that community,
but I know we hear from a lot of Northern
Territory police officers as well, and I think that for
some at the moment, they are finding it pretty tough.
I mean, the association's president had said that to us
earlier this morning on the show, said that some are questioning,
(15:27):
you know, heading to work. I mean, what do you
say to those police officers that listen to this show
and are listening to you this morning, you know that
are feeling I don't know what the right word is,
maybe a bit broken, a bit fragile.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Right now, Look, Katie, I just thank our hard working
police force for the work that they do every day.
We work in some of the most challenging conditions and
environments across Australia and our people keep showing up day
after day, shift after shift. So I just thank them
for the work that they do, that that they have done.
I'll just take this opportunity again to thank all of
(16:03):
the members of the police force that gave evidence during
this inquest. It's been a three year process. It's been
very hard on the community, the family of Kumu Joe Walker,
but the wider police force, and I thank those officers
for their honesty and their direct evidence and confronting evidence
at times in the cronial process. But like I said,
this is not about defending the organization or individual people
(16:24):
that feel aggrieved. It's about acknowledging what was borne out
by that evidence, accepting it and saying we're going to
do things better as we move forward.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
And just in response to what the Northern Territory Police
Association see with them saying a number of members say
that they can't continue policing after all of this, I mean,
from your perspective, is that the case.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Look, Katie, I think there'll be individual reactions and people
will feel very different to findings and to commentary that's
come out. But it's not about individuals being defensive. It's
about all organization being willing to learn, even when that's uncomfortable,
and doing what we can to address those uncomfortable truths
that have come out and what can we do to
(17:09):
change moving forward.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Well, Acting Northern Territory Police Commissioner Martin Dole really appreciate
your time this morning. Thanks for joining us, Thanks Katie,
Thanks for your Tom. Thank you
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