Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, as we've been speaking about over the last couple
of days, eligible territory ands over eighteen are going to
be able to buy OC spray from September for self
defense as part of a twelvemonth trial. The Chief Minister
sees the Northern Territory is going to look to replicate
the approach in WA. The only other jurisdiction where OC
spray is lawful now joining us on the line for
(00:22):
their take on the announcement is the Union for Retail Workers,
the Shop Distributive and Allied Employees Association NT Secretary Josh Peek.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Good morning, Josh, Good morning, Katie. Thank you for having
me on.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yeah, good to have you on the show. Now, Josh,
I know, well, obviously we have got a lot of
retail workers, a lot of those workers across the Northern Territory.
What's the reaction been to this OC spray announcement of
a trial.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Well, of course, and we've spoken about this many times, Katie,
we absolutely welcome any measures that will make workplaces say
for and be strong deterrence against, particularly those people that
come into our retail spaces and seek to cause cause harm.
So I think on the basis that it's a trial
is something that we cautiously welcome. I just do want
(01:12):
to flag though, there are a number of situations in
a retail setting that we are sort of watching this
and reasonably cautious about. And that is, you know, when
we are talking about enclosed spaces, what is the consequence
of you know, the spray being used on bystanders, particularly
and particularly for customers to use it against another customers
for example, you know, and potentially a retail worker be
(01:35):
impacted by that by that O spree oc spray, which
can happen, which which can happen in course to the
side effects we're concerned about. We also know that particularly
in a in a food setting where there is food around,
there is a whole bunch of dangers with the use
of the spray in those enclosed settings. And so when
the sprays, let us say, for example, in a supermarket,
(01:58):
whether it's good reason or not good good good reason,
there can be a huge set of consequences on the
consumable of the foods that are being sold there there thereafter.
So you know, as with all of these things, it's
not straightforward when it comes to retail stores fundamentally though,
I mean, I just to go back to the first
(02:19):
and I think core principle, which is should people have
the right to self defense and to keep themselves safe? Absolutely,
we support people having more ability to do that. This
I think is an appropriate trial, but I just think
we also need to be conscious from a retail point
of view what that actually looks like, particularly when there's workers.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Buy yes, Josh, I know other customers. I know there's
been quite a bit of a discussion about this on
a national stage, following on from the absolute tragedy that
we saw in Bondi with the attacks that had happened there,
and there had been some calls for this to be
implemented across the board. We also know in Western Australia
(03:00):
is something that is legal in w A. I know
obviously you're the you are the secretary for the Northern
Territory in South Australia as I understand, But has there
been much discussion I guess, you know, with like with
with you guys or with the body and having a
chat to w A or anywhere else in terms of
(03:21):
whether it sort of works for them.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, we've got lots of discussions on this issue and
we're particularly engaging with the retailers on as well, and
it's been something that generally speaking, many retailers particularly, and
again we've got to look look at this in sort
of a tear down approach. Firstly, I think from the
union's perspective, generally speaking, we would be pretty supportive of
(03:45):
it being used by trained security per personnel quite appropriately,
as long as there's appropriate training to ensure some of
the issues that I've just mentioned don't arise. So for
a trained security officers got it, you know they're going
to be trained to potentially only use it outdoors, or
use it away from customers or away from the other
(04:07):
consequences that without outline them. Now, there is a degree
of debate within with within the sector about this because
particularly some some retailers have the view that even if
you do conduct that kind of training with with with
security officers, you can't you know, if you have every
security officer holding one one of these, that will ultimately
(04:27):
lead to some of those unintended consequences. In w A,
we haven't potentially the trial hasn't run long enough yet,
so I'm not sure whether we've got data yet that
says how many you know, members of the public, for example,
have taken up the ability to carry around caps display
(04:48):
with them. So you know, I get I think, I
think in many ways we yet to see what that
what that really, what that looks like. I'm not aware
at this stage of some of those un and in consequences.
And that's the kind of sort of why the Hunan's
position is, We're okay for a trial, but we really
do need to be mindful of about the fact that we
(05:11):
absolutely understand that you know, there may be you know,
people that want to have this on them for their
own personal safety. We need to be clear about, you know,
about that if they are used particularly on other people
or in a retail environment and can in fact be dangerous,
and so we just need to monitor that to make
sure that we're not seeing those consequences. And where there
(05:34):
is particularly really strong quality point of sale information provided
to consumers, you know, it does need to be explained
to people when they do purchase these things that they
really shouldn't be using them around other people who so
intended on being used as perfectively, and that they probably
shouldn't be used in enclosed spaces, that if they are
(05:55):
used near food or other sort of items, that effectively
they all need to be destroid or heavily sanitized. So
there are a whole range of things that flow on
on from this. That's not to say that we're opposed
to it.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
No, Hey, before I let you go, do you know
where things are at with security guards on bottle shops
being equipped with OC spray? That is something that you
know that we've been told would be rolled out under
the previous labor government. Do you know if there's been
sort of any update in that space.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I haven't got an update on that, and certainly something
that I said for we strong we strongly support if
people are trained on using these and they know how
to use them properly. We think they're an excellent safeguard that,
particularly when security personnel use them, can certainly make those
workplaces safer. And I would be keen for an update.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
As well well. Josh. It is always good to catch
up with you, mate. Really appreciate your having a chat
with us this morning.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Thanks Katie, Thank you
Now, as we've been speaking about over the last couple
of days, eligible territory ands over eighteen are going to
be able to buy OC spray from September for self
defense as part of a twelvemonth trial. The Chief Minister
sees the Northern Territory is going to look to replicate
the approach in WA. The only other jurisdiction where OC
spray is lawful now joining us on the line for
(00:22):
their take on the announcement is the Union for Retail Workers,
the Shop Distributive and Allied Employees Association NT Secretary Josh Peek.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Good morning, Josh, Good morning, Katie. Thank you for having
me on.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yeah, good to have you on the show. Now, Josh,
I know, well, obviously we have got a lot of
retail workers, a lot of those workers across the Northern Territory.
What's the reaction been to this OC spray announcement of
a trial.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Well, of course, and we've spoken about this many times, Katie,
we absolutely welcome any measures that will make workplaces say
for and be strong deterrence against, particularly those people that
come into our retail spaces and seek to cause cause harm.
So I think on the basis that it's a trial
is something that we cautiously welcome. I just do want
(01:12):
to flag though, there are a number of situations in
a retail setting that we are sort of watching this
and reasonably cautious about. And that is, you know, when
we are talking about enclosed spaces, what is the consequence
of you know, the spray being used on bystanders, particularly
and particularly for customers to use it against another customers
for example, you know, and potentially a retail worker be
(01:35):
impacted by that by that O spree oc spray, which
can happen, which which can happen in course to the
side effects we're concerned about. We also know that particularly
in a in a food setting where there is food around,
there is a whole bunch of dangers with the use
of the spray in those enclosed settings. And so when
the sprays, let us say, for example, in a supermarket,
(01:58):
whether it's good reason or not good good good reason,
there can be a huge set of consequences on the
consumable of the foods that are being sold there there thereafter.
So you know, as with all of these things, it's
not straightforward when it comes to retail stores fundamentally though,
I mean, I just to go back to the first
(02:19):
and I think core principle, which is should people have
the right to self defense and to keep themselves safe? Absolutely,
we support people having more ability to do that. This
I think is an appropriate trial, but I just think
we also need to be conscious from a retail point
of view what that actually looks like, particularly when there's workers.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Buy yes, Josh, I know other customers. I know there's
been quite a bit of a discussion about this on
a national stage, following on from the absolute tragedy that
we saw in Bondi with the attacks that had happened there,
and there had been some calls for this to be
implemented across the board. We also know in Western Australia
(03:00):
is something that is legal in w A. I know
obviously you're the you are the secretary for the Northern
Territory in South Australia as I understand, But has there
been much discussion I guess, you know, with like with
with you guys or with the body and having a
chat to w A or anywhere else in terms of
(03:21):
whether it sort of works for them.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, we've got lots of discussions on this issue and
we're particularly engaging with the retailers on as well, and
it's been something that generally speaking, many retailers particularly, and
again we've got to look look at this in sort
of a tear down approach. Firstly, I think from the
union's perspective, generally speaking, we would be pretty supportive of
(03:45):
it being used by trained security per personnel quite appropriately,
as long as there's appropriate training to ensure some of
the issues that I've just mentioned don't arise. So for
a trained security officers got it, you know they're going
to be trained to potentially only use it outdoors, or
use it away from customers or away from the other
(04:07):
consequences that without outline them. Now, there is a degree
of debate within with within the sector about this because
particularly some some retailers have the view that even if
you do conduct that kind of training with with with
security officers, you can't you know, if you have every
security officer holding one one of these, that will ultimately
(04:27):
lead to some of those unintended consequences. In w A,
we haven't potentially the trial hasn't run long enough yet,
so I'm not sure whether we've got data yet that
says how many you know, members of the public, for example,
have taken up the ability to carry around caps display
(04:48):
with them. So you know, I get I think, I
think in many ways we yet to see what that
what that really, what that looks like. I'm not aware
at this stage of some of those un and in consequences.
And that's the kind of sort of why the Hunan's
position is, We're okay for a trial, but we really
do need to be mindful of about the fact that we
(05:11):
absolutely understand that you know, there may be you know,
people that want to have this on them for their
own personal safety. We need to be clear about, you know,
about that if they are used particularly on other people
or in a retail environment and can in fact be dangerous,
and so we just need to monitor that to make
sure that we're not seeing those consequences. And where there
(05:34):
is particularly really strong quality point of sale information provided
to consumers, you know, it does need to be explained
to people when they do purchase these things that they
really shouldn't be using them around other people who so
intended on being used as perfectively, and that they probably
shouldn't be used in enclosed spaces, that if they are
(05:55):
used near food or other sort of items, that effectively
they all need to be destroid or heavily sanitized. So
there are a whole range of things that flow on
on from this. That's not to say that we're opposed
to it.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
No, Hey, before I let you go, do you know
where things are at with security guards on bottle shops
being equipped with OC spray? That is something that you
know that we've been told would be rolled out under
the previous labor government. Do you know if there's been
sort of any update in that space.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I haven't got an update on that, and certainly something
that I said for we strong we strongly support if
people are trained on using these and they know how
to use them properly. We think they're an excellent safeguard that,
particularly when security personnel use them, can certainly make those
workplaces safer. And I would be keen for an update.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
As well well. Josh. It is always good to catch
up with you, mate. Really appreciate your having a chat
with us this morning.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Thanks Katie, Thank you
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