Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now just taking you across to a story which has
just come through from Matt Cunningham on Sky News.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Essentially it is being reported that ex Northern Territory Police
officer Zachary Rolf has lodged a complaint accusing the coroner
of bias after she delivered findings into the death of
Komen Jay Walker in front of a banner of an
activist group that called for the cleared cop to face
(00:29):
traditional Indigenous justice. Now we're going to be catching up
with Matt in just a moment's time. Actually, he joins
us on the line right now. Matt Cunningham from Sky News.
Good morning, Matt. Matt a story which you have just published.
Ex Northern Territory police officer Zachary Rolf lodged a complaint
(00:51):
accusing the coroner of bias. Talk us through what's happened.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, Look, I've been able to confirm Cody that Zachary
Rolf has lodged a complaint with the Anti Judicial Commission,
that's the body that oversees judges in the Northern Territory,
and the complaint essentially relates to his concerns of alleged
bias by the coroner Elizabeth Armitage in the inquest that's
(01:18):
just been completed into the death of Kumen Joe Walker. Now,
essentially the complaint centers around three issues. One is, in
his mind, the failure to properly investigate the actions of
five senior police officers have provided statutory declarations to the
(01:40):
inquest about those racist awards, saying that they were not racist,
and as we know it was subsequently well. Zachary Roll
subsequently presented copies of some of those awards to the
inquest and they indeed were, I think you'd have to say,
are racist. And his on that issue centers around her
(02:03):
failure to recall those officers to take more evidence from
them about those awards and about why they had submitted
those statutory declarations. The other part of this complaint, Katie,
relates to the handing down of the findings at Yindimou
earlier this month. Now, Zachary Rolf is alleging biased because
(02:27):
the coroner handed those findings down at the poor Media
building in Yindamoo and not in a neutral courthouse setting, right.
And also the fact, and I think this is perhaps
the most interesting part of this complaint, the fact that
she delivered those findings with an activist group's banner behind her,
(02:48):
and if you watch the video, I wasn't there. I
was on leave when these findings were delivered. But if
you watch the video of what occurred there, as she's
beginning to deliver her findings, someone gets up and puts
the banner up behind and it's a banner of the
group that represents some of the elders and community leaders
in Yundo move who won't have been calling for a
(03:10):
ceasefire and for police not to carry guns in remote communities.
But in a statement in twenty twenty two, this group
also and this is still on their website now called
for Zachary Roff's acquittal in twenty twenty two in the
Supreme Court and Darwin to be thrown out and for
him to be retried in Our Springs, and also called
(03:31):
for him to face customary law at Yndamove. So Zachary
Roff is arguing that she's displaying a bias because she's
sitting in front of a banner of a group who
wanted to see him speared at Yindimoo. Now I put
some questions to current Armitis. She hadn't responded by deadline
and also contacted the Anti Judicial Commission, who say they
(03:55):
can't comment on complaints. But it is my understanding that
this complaint was made last week and that the Judicial
Commission has acknowledged receipt of the complaint and asked Zachary
Rolfs for more information in relation to it.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Right, So what is the process now, Matt, do we know?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, there's there's a there's a float chart on the
end of Anti Judicial Commission's website that explains that process.
I'll try to I'll try to simplify it all. I mean,
at one end, at one end of it, it could
be immediately dismissed and that's the end of the matter.
Now now it's my understanding that it's past that hurdle
(04:38):
already because I believe that the Judicial Commission has gone
back to Zachary rolf and acknowledged his complaint and asked
for him to provide more information. From there, you know,
the Commission can do all kinds of things. It can
do it it needs to then go to the coroner
(05:02):
and get a response from her. At that point, it
can dismiss the complaint or if it thinks necessary, it
can go down to paths. If it thinks this is
very serious. It can go down to path that could
ultimately lead to a judicial officer's dismissal, or that there's
sort of a medium path, a pathway in between where
(05:24):
you know, it can go. A panel can be appointed
to assess the complaint and then it could potentially just
result in counseling for the judicial officer. So you know,
there's a range of outcomes you know that can can
come from a complaint to the Anti Judicial Commission, everything
from the complaint being dismissed to some pretty serious sanctions
(05:45):
being taken against judicial officers. So we're obviously only at
the very beginning of.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
That prop process. That it's obviously something that did spark
people's attention. I mean even I've got an email or
a message that came through from Peter Kavanah and how
Springs this morning and he said, Hi, Katie. The coroner's
foolishness in delivering her findings in front of a political
flag put her into the political spotlight. Now we were
more talking about the context, obviously, of the comments which
(06:12):
had been made in Parliament yesterday by the Minister for
the Prevention of Domestic Violence Robin carl and and you know,
i'd ask the Attorney General this morning whether she had
confidence in in the coroner and and and you know
it's sort of spoken about it from that perspective. Well, oh, look,
I'd have to go back and listen to exactly her wording.
(06:34):
But you know she said she fully supported you know,
the Minister Robin carl and you know that it wasn't
so much an issue with the coroner as an individual,
but making sure that processes, you know, are sped up
and that things are happening in a more timely fashion.
I believe was sort of the you know, the context
(06:57):
or the crux of it. I'd have to go back
and and have a double listen. You know what it's
like that when you're in the studio.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
We're in. I mean, it's a fairly extraordinary situation that's
taking place at the moment. You have to where you
have you have senior members of the government, including you know,
the Chief Minister and the Minister to the Prevention of
Family Violence openly criticizing the coroner and her work. I mean,
Robin Kale's contribution in the Parliament yesterday was fairly extraordinary,
(07:31):
I thought, describing her her report into the deaths of
those four Aboriginal women as underwhelming and uninspiring. And then
and then you know, going quite a bit further in
her criticism of her, that is, that's fairly unusual. You
don't often see members of the government criticizing you know,
(07:57):
coeigners or judges in that sort of way. So there
see a lot of tension. I think they're at the
moment between the finocchi Aro government and the coroner reallysic Pharma, Yeah,
so what's.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
The situation, you know, Matt, I don't know whether you
know off the top of your head, but you know,
when an appointment such as an appointment to the position
of coroner is made, is it for a specific period
of time, what's or can they like are they able
to be, you know, in a role for forever sort
of thing?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I'm not sure that it is. My understanding is that
once you're appointed, you there for you know, as long
as you want to be, unless you know, well, unless
you were removed or you know, some kind of serious misconduct, which.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Which I mean and I guess the thing is, you know,
the government at the moment they're being critical or you know,
like they've they've had some criticisms, but like I didn't
get the impression from the Attorney General. Crystal's just gone
back and got the wording for me. But Mary Klear
Boothby had said, it's more about the person. The coroner
is not on notice, but Northern Territory government looking under
(09:05):
the hood, looking at all the avenues to address long
standing problems. She should She stood by the DV Minister
saying she's passionate about domestic violence and backs her in
pointing to victims support m taking a look.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Under the law A very all, very interesting, you know.
I mean there's a long tradition, you know, if you
look at if you look at the situation in the
United States for example, I mean, you know, judges and
judicial appointments have always been highly political. Here it's a
very different situation where you know, judges and judicial officers
(09:44):
are seen to be completely apolitical and above politics. So
it's interesting that you know, the government and particularly the
Minister Robin Taley yesterday under parliamentary privilege, you know, making
that speech and really offering scathing criticism. You'd have to
stay under the circumstances of the China.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Well, Matt Cunningham, it is certainly an interesting situation at
this point in time, so no doubt you and I
will talk again very soon. Thank you for joining us
on the show this morning.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
No worry, thanks, Thanks mate.
Now just taking you across to a story which has
just come through from Matt Cunningham on Sky News.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Essentially it is being reported that ex Northern Territory Police
officer Zachary Rolf has lodged a complaint accusing the coroner
of bias after she delivered findings into the death of
Komen Jay Walker in front of a banner of an
activist group that called for the cleared cop to face
(00:29):
traditional Indigenous justice. Now we're going to be catching up
with Matt in just a moment's time. Actually, he joins
us on the line right now. Matt Cunningham from Sky News.
Good morning, Matt. Matt a story which you have just published.
Ex Northern Territory police officer Zachary Rolf lodged a complaint
(00:51):
accusing the coroner of bias. Talk us through what's happened.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, Look, I've been able to confirm Cody that Zachary
Rolf has lodged a complaint with the Anti Judicial Commission,
that's the body that oversees judges in the Northern Territory,
and the complaint essentially relates to his concerns of alleged
bias by the coroner Elizabeth Armitage in the inquest that's
(01:18):
just been completed into the death of Kumen Joe Walker. Now,
essentially the complaint centers around three issues. One is, in
his mind, the failure to properly investigate the actions of
five senior police officers have provided statutory declarations to the
(01:40):
inquest about those racist awards, saying that they were not racist,
and as we know it was subsequently well. Zachary Roll
subsequently presented copies of some of those awards to the
inquest and they indeed were, I think you'd have to say,
are racist. And his on that issue centers around her
(02:03):
failure to recall those officers to take more evidence from
them about those awards and about why they had submitted
those statutory declarations. The other part of this complaint, Katie,
relates to the handing down of the findings at Yindimou
earlier this month. Now, Zachary Rolf is alleging biased because
(02:27):
the coroner handed those findings down at the poor Media
building in Yindamoo and not in a neutral courthouse setting, right.
And also the fact, and I think this is perhaps
the most interesting part of this complaint, the fact that
she delivered those findings with an activist group's banner behind her,
(02:48):
and if you watch the video, I wasn't there. I
was on leave when these findings were delivered. But if
you watch the video of what occurred there, as she's
beginning to deliver her findings, someone gets up and puts
the banner up behind and it's a banner of the
group that represents some of the elders and community leaders
in Yundo move who won't have been calling for a
(03:10):
ceasefire and for police not to carry guns in remote communities.
But in a statement in twenty twenty two, this group
also and this is still on their website now called
for Zachary Roff's acquittal in twenty twenty two in the
Supreme Court and Darwin to be thrown out and for
him to be retried in Our Springs, and also called
(03:31):
for him to face customary law at Yndamove. So Zachary
Roff is arguing that she's displaying a bias because she's
sitting in front of a banner of a group who
wanted to see him speared at Yindimoo. Now I put
some questions to current Armitis. She hadn't responded by deadline
and also contacted the Anti Judicial Commission, who say they
(03:55):
can't comment on complaints. But it is my understanding that
this complaint was made last week and that the Judicial
Commission has acknowledged receipt of the complaint and asked Zachary
Rolfs for more information in relation to it.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Right, So what is the process now, Matt, do we know?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, there's there's a there's a float chart on the
end of Anti Judicial Commission's website that explains that process.
I'll try to I'll try to simplify it all. I mean,
at one end, at one end of it, it could
be immediately dismissed and that's the end of the matter.
Now now it's my understanding that it's past that hurdle
(04:38):
already because I believe that the Judicial Commission has gone
back to Zachary rolf and acknowledged his complaint and asked
for him to provide more information. From there, you know,
the Commission can do all kinds of things. It can
do it it needs to then go to the coroner
(05:02):
and get a response from her. At that point, it
can dismiss the complaint or if it thinks necessary, it
can go down to paths. If it thinks this is
very serious. It can go down to path that could
ultimately lead to a judicial officer's dismissal, or that there's
sort of a medium path, a pathway in between where
(05:24):
you know, it can go. A panel can be appointed
to assess the complaint and then it could potentially just
result in counseling for the judicial officer. So you know,
there's a range of outcomes you know that can can
come from a complaint to the Anti Judicial Commission, everything
from the complaint being dismissed to some pretty serious sanctions
(05:45):
being taken against judicial officers. So we're obviously only at
the very beginning of.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
That prop process. That it's obviously something that did spark
people's attention. I mean even I've got an email or
a message that came through from Peter Kavanah and how
Springs this morning and he said, Hi, Katie. The coroner's
foolishness in delivering her findings in front of a political
flag put her into the political spotlight. Now we were
more talking about the context, obviously, of the comments which
(06:12):
had been made in Parliament yesterday by the Minister for
the Prevention of Domestic Violence Robin carl and and you know,
i'd ask the Attorney General this morning whether she had
confidence in in the coroner and and and you know
it's sort of spoken about it from that perspective. Well, oh, look,
I'd have to go back and listen to exactly her wording.
(06:34):
But you know she said she fully supported you know,
the Minister Robin carl and you know that it wasn't
so much an issue with the coroner as an individual,
but making sure that processes, you know, are sped up
and that things are happening in a more timely fashion.
I believe was sort of the you know, the context
(06:57):
or the crux of it. I'd have to go back
and and have a double listen. You know what it's
like that when you're in the studio.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
We're in. I mean, it's a fairly extraordinary situation that's
taking place at the moment. You have to where you
have you have senior members of the government, including you know,
the Chief Minister and the Minister to the Prevention of
Family Violence openly criticizing the coroner and her work. I mean,
Robin Kale's contribution in the Parliament yesterday was fairly extraordinary,
(07:31):
I thought, describing her her report into the deaths of
those four Aboriginal women as underwhelming and uninspiring. And then
and then you know, going quite a bit further in
her criticism of her, that is, that's fairly unusual. You
don't often see members of the government criticizing you know,
(07:57):
coeigners or judges in that sort of way. So there
see a lot of tension. I think they're at the
moment between the finocchi Aro government and the coroner reallysic Pharma, Yeah,
so what's.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
The situation, you know, Matt, I don't know whether you
know off the top of your head, but you know,
when an appointment such as an appointment to the position
of coroner is made, is it for a specific period
of time, what's or can they like are they able
to be, you know, in a role for forever sort
of thing?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I'm not sure that it is. My understanding is that
once you're appointed, you there for you know, as long
as you want to be, unless you know, well, unless
you were removed or you know, some kind of serious misconduct, which.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Which I mean and I guess the thing is, you know,
the government at the moment they're being critical or you know,
like they've they've had some criticisms, but like I didn't
get the impression from the Attorney General. Crystal's just gone
back and got the wording for me. But Mary Klear
Boothby had said, it's more about the person. The coroner
is not on notice, but Northern Territory government looking under
(09:05):
the hood, looking at all the avenues to address long
standing problems. She should She stood by the DV Minister
saying she's passionate about domestic violence and backs her in
pointing to victims support m taking a look.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Under the law A very all, very interesting, you know.
I mean there's a long tradition, you know, if you
look at if you look at the situation in the
United States for example, I mean, you know, judges and
judicial appointments have always been highly political. Here it's a
very different situation where you know, judges and judicial officers
(09:44):
are seen to be completely apolitical and above politics. So
it's interesting that you know, the government and particularly the
Minister Robin Taley yesterday under parliamentary privilege, you know, making
that speech and really offering scathing criticism. You'd have to
stay under the circumstances of the China.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Well, Matt Cunningham, it is certainly an interesting situation at
this point in time, so no doubt you and I
will talk again very soon. Thank you for joining us
on the show this morning.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
No worry, thanks, Thanks mate.
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