Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But as you heard just before the news, one in
(00:02):
five Saint john NT paramedics left the ambulance service in
twenty three twenty four, more than double the attrition rate
of the next highest jurisdiction, the ACT. That is according
to a report in the Northern Territory News.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Paramedics told the paper this was due to a toxic
work culture, distrust between senior management and crews, and trauma
of experiencing daily violence and facilities which they've told them
are beyond a joke. Now joining us on the line
is the Director of Ambulance Services, Andrew Thomas. Good morning Andy,
(00:39):
Good morning Caddy. Now Andrew. One in five paramedics reportedly
left the service in twenty three twenty four that financial year.
First off, are those numbers correct from your perspective?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah? Absolutely, credit CDI. Those numbers are the figures that
all ambulance services provide to the Productivity Mission, and those
numbers are released every January, and we provided information to
the media back in January actually around both the attrition
rate and then we also highlighted around the significant increase
(01:13):
in our workload that we've seen across the Northern Territory.
That's also having an impact on our paramedics and.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
What are the reasons that paramedics are giving Saint John
for leaving their jobs.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, look, we obviously look into that sort of thing,
and we've gone back and we've looked at you know,
through conversations, we've had this staff, you know, resignation letters,
all those sorts of things, and the primary reason that
people are leaving is because they're taking their opportunities to
leave the territory to go back to other locations. We
know that we provide training for intern paramedics and so
(01:53):
to become a paramedic these days, you have to do
your university degree. Once you finish university degree, you have
to do an internship. It's like a graduate nurse program
for nurses or your registrar fordoctors. Paramedics now do an
internship with an ambulance service, and we have had those
graduates from interstate coming to the Northern Territory. They do
(02:14):
their internship with us, they provide us with a period
of time afterwards, but then ultimately most of them are
returning back to their home stations. One of the ways
that we've tried to stop this or to reduce the
impact on this is. We know that we've supported the
universities in the Northern Territory. Both Flinders and CDU are
now running a paramedic degree program up here which is
(02:37):
full the territory. We've seen thirty paramedics start in last
year and this year a total of thirty that are
now from the territory that are doing their internship. Some
of them who started last year have now qualified with us,
and we're hoping that we'll start to see a change
in that demographic of people coming and us training them
(02:58):
and then leaving to other states.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I mean, if you listen to what the union says,
it won't change. Because they say that members are telling
them it's a toxic workplace. What do you say to
that claim?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, Caadie, you know the retric around toxic workplace has
been thrown out. We've had multiple times to try and
speak with the union and ask them to provide examples
or provide us some clear definitions of what that is.
Following the union putting a vote of no confidence, we've
had the Chairman of the board and the CEO meet
(03:32):
with the union in quite a really positive meeting where
we were able to get some information from them and
the issues that were raised in there were not overly significant.
They've obviously they're significant for our staff and we're doing
a lot of work with the union and the membership
who address those concerns.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So I mean they say that there's poor fatigue management,
no debriefs, high rates of violence, a lack of resources
are among the key issues for workers. Are they being
raised with you guys?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Oh? Absolutely, and Katie, they're exactly the things that we've
been raising through to the Northern Territory Government and to
nt Health and will form a really significant part of
our discussions around the contract going forward. We know and
have been saying for a long time we are under resourts.
Our paramedics do an amazing job, but we have limited resources.
(04:26):
Our workload is going up and we have been taking
and put in strategies about ensuring our crews get breaks
during the day. You know, we had crews running twelve
hour shifts where they don't get a single meal break
during the day. Last financial year we had over five
thousand occasions where our paramedic crews either got a delayed
(04:50):
meal break or didn't even get one. And that just
comes back to the fact of ambulance resourcing.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I mean, we know our paramedics do an incredible job.
I guess the concern is one of those paramedics has
reportedly told the NT News that people are leaving, as
I touched on, due to a toxic work culture, distrust
between senior management and crews, and the trauma of experiencing
daily violence and facilities there are beyond a joke telling
(05:20):
the paper sint John is not a place that people
want to work. That's what that paramedic has told the paper.
I mean, does John seek different feedback on why people
are leaving?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Look, we know that the and you know, you and
I have spoken numerous times about the inappropriate workplace you know,
violence that our paramedics receive. You know, if why would
anyone want to come to a work place where each
day you go there, you're being a views, you're being
spat on, and we're being physically threatened. You know, our
(05:55):
paramedics are amazing people. They do it because they love
their job. But we know that we see the highest
rate of occupational violence across any eminal service in across Australia.
We're not alone. We know that health services up here
and police are seeing the same things. And we know
that attrition rates in the Northern Territory across all services,
(06:16):
both emergency services, across government, across private business, we see
very very high attrition rates with people leaving and moving
through the territory. Partly it's a transiit nature, but also
to those social impacts that we've all been talking about,
we know they impact on people's in wanting to stay
in the territory. Absolutely. Some of our workplace facilities across
(06:40):
particularly in Darwin. Again, we know that infrastructure is something
that we've been highlighting with government for a long period
of time and we're going it will form part of
our contract going forward about improving those places and the
workplace environments for our staff because we know that we
are reaching a point where we need more crews, we
(07:01):
need more resources, but we don't have the locations of
the facility to actually put them on.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Andrew, do you believe that staff have confidence in management?
I mean, Erina Early said on the show earlier this morning.
For real change, it would mean replacing the whole executive.
What do you say to those calls?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Look, I think you know you know as an executive
and particularly our ambulance leadership team are working extremely hard
to work to improve the systems and the structures and
the workplace for our paramedics and our patient transport offices
and our emergency call takers and all those people that
(07:41):
are delivering the care to Northern Territory. You know, in
some respects we've had a turnover of our executive through
natural attrition over the past three to four years. Anyway,
we continue to look at how we can do things
and work with our staff. We're engaged a Tolpicul reform
(08:01):
project at the moment and we're working with both across
all levels, across the organization and at all locations around
what we can do to make change.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Andrew Thomas, before I let you go this morning, I
do want to ask you has there been any update
on the contract held by Saint John to provide services
in the NT. You and I spoke about that a
few weeks ago. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Look, as we spoke previously, Katie, we've started the preliminary
discussions with NT Health in terms of a process for
the Emergency road annuals and so that will cover emergency
ANUL that will cover the emergency response and then also
our Triple zero call takers and the triple zero service.
(08:48):
We do know government indicated that for the non emergency
patient transport that there will be a wide attended process
going out and that will be coming out further in
the future. You know, Saint John looks forward to having
those discussions with NT government around how we can look
to deliver the best a contemporary, up up, you know,
(09:11):
fit for purpose ambulance service into the future.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Well, Andrew Thomas, the Saint John Ambulance Director of Ambulance Services,
really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you for joining
us on the show.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
No problem CARTI have a great day you too.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Thank you
But as you heard just before the news, one in
(00:02):
five Saint john NT paramedics left the ambulance service in
twenty three twenty four, more than double the attrition rate
of the next highest jurisdiction, the ACT. That is according
to a report in the Northern Territory News.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Paramedics told the paper this was due to a toxic
work culture, distrust between senior management and crews, and trauma
of experiencing daily violence and facilities which they've told them
are beyond a joke. Now joining us on the line
is the Director of Ambulance Services, Andrew Thomas. Good morning Andy,
(00:39):
Good morning Caddy. Now Andrew. One in five paramedics reportedly
left the service in twenty three twenty four that financial year.
First off, are those numbers correct from your perspective?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah? Absolutely, credit CDI. Those numbers are the figures that
all ambulance services provide to the Productivity Mission, and those
numbers are released every January, and we provided information to
the media back in January actually around both the attrition
rate and then we also highlighted around the significant increase
(01:13):
in our workload that we've seen across the Northern Territory.
That's also having an impact on our paramedics and.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
What are the reasons that paramedics are giving Saint John
for leaving their jobs.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, look, we obviously look into that sort of thing,
and we've gone back and we've looked at you know,
through conversations, we've had this staff, you know, resignation letters,
all those sorts of things, and the primary reason that
people are leaving is because they're taking their opportunities to
leave the territory to go back to other locations. We
know that we provide training for intern paramedics and so
(01:53):
to become a paramedic these days, you have to do
your university degree. Once you finish university degree, you have
to do an internship. It's like a graduate nurse program
for nurses or your registrar fordoctors. Paramedics now do an
internship with an ambulance service, and we have had those
graduates from interstate coming to the Northern Territory. They do
(02:14):
their internship with us, they provide us with a period
of time afterwards, but then ultimately most of them are
returning back to their home stations. One of the ways
that we've tried to stop this or to reduce the
impact on this is. We know that we've supported the
universities in the Northern Territory. Both Flinders and CDU are
now running a paramedic degree program up here which is
(02:37):
full the territory. We've seen thirty paramedics start in last
year and this year a total of thirty that are
now from the territory that are doing their internship. Some
of them who started last year have now qualified with us,
and we're hoping that we'll start to see a change
in that demographic of people coming and us training them
(02:58):
and then leaving to other states.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I mean, if you listen to what the union says,
it won't change. Because they say that members are telling
them it's a toxic workplace. What do you say to
that claim?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, Caadie, you know the retric around toxic workplace has
been thrown out. We've had multiple times to try and
speak with the union and ask them to provide examples
or provide us some clear definitions of what that is.
Following the union putting a vote of no confidence, we've
had the Chairman of the board and the CEO meet
(03:32):
with the union in quite a really positive meeting where
we were able to get some information from them and
the issues that were raised in there were not overly significant.
They've obviously they're significant for our staff and we're doing
a lot of work with the union and the membership
who address those concerns.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So I mean they say that there's poor fatigue management,
no debriefs, high rates of violence, a lack of resources
are among the key issues for workers. Are they being
raised with you guys?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Oh? Absolutely, and Katie, they're exactly the things that we've
been raising through to the Northern Territory Government and to
nt Health and will form a really significant part of
our discussions around the contract going forward. We know and
have been saying for a long time we are under resourts.
Our paramedics do an amazing job, but we have limited resources.
(04:26):
Our workload is going up and we have been taking
and put in strategies about ensuring our crews get breaks
during the day. You know, we had crews running twelve
hour shifts where they don't get a single meal break
during the day. Last financial year we had over five
thousand occasions where our paramedic crews either got a delayed
(04:50):
meal break or didn't even get one. And that just
comes back to the fact of ambulance resourcing.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I mean, we know our paramedics do an incredible job.
I guess the concern is one of those paramedics has
reportedly told the NT News that people are leaving, as
I touched on, due to a toxic work culture, distrust
between senior management and crews, and the trauma of experiencing
daily violence and facilities there are beyond a joke telling
(05:20):
the paper sint John is not a place that people
want to work. That's what that paramedic has told the paper.
I mean, does John seek different feedback on why people
are leaving?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Look, we know that the and you know, you and
I have spoken numerous times about the inappropriate workplace you know,
violence that our paramedics receive. You know, if why would
anyone want to come to a work place where each
day you go there, you're being a views, you're being
spat on, and we're being physically threatened. You know, our
(05:55):
paramedics are amazing people. They do it because they love
their job. But we know that we see the highest
rate of occupational violence across any eminal service in across Australia.
We're not alone. We know that health services up here
and police are seeing the same things. And we know
that attrition rates in the Northern Territory across all services,
(06:16):
both emergency services, across government, across private business, we see
very very high attrition rates with people leaving and moving
through the territory. Partly it's a transiit nature, but also
to those social impacts that we've all been talking about,
we know they impact on people's in wanting to stay
in the territory. Absolutely. Some of our workplace facilities across
(06:40):
particularly in Darwin. Again, we know that infrastructure is something
that we've been highlighting with government for a long period
of time and we're going it will form part of
our contract going forward about improving those places and the
workplace environments for our staff because we know that we
are reaching a point where we need more crews, we
(07:01):
need more resources, but we don't have the locations of
the facility to actually put them on.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Andrew, do you believe that staff have confidence in management?
I mean, Erina Early said on the show earlier this morning.
For real change, it would mean replacing the whole executive.
What do you say to those calls?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Look, I think you know you know as an executive
and particularly our ambulance leadership team are working extremely hard
to work to improve the systems and the structures and
the workplace for our paramedics and our patient transport offices
and our emergency call takers and all those people that
(07:41):
are delivering the care to Northern Territory. You know, in
some respects we've had a turnover of our executive through
natural attrition over the past three to four years. Anyway,
we continue to look at how we can do things
and work with our staff. We're engaged a Tolpicul reform
(08:01):
project at the moment and we're working with both across
all levels, across the organization and at all locations around
what we can do to make change.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Andrew Thomas, before I let you go this morning, I
do want to ask you has there been any update
on the contract held by Saint John to provide services
in the NT. You and I spoke about that a
few weeks ago. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Look, as we spoke previously, Katie, we've started the preliminary
discussions with NT Health in terms of a process for
the Emergency road annuals and so that will cover emergency
ANUL that will cover the emergency response and then also
our Triple zero call takers and the triple zero service.
(08:48):
We do know government indicated that for the non emergency
patient transport that there will be a wide attended process
going out and that will be coming out further in
the future. You know, Saint John looks forward to having
those discussions with NT government around how we can look
to deliver the best a contemporary, up up, you know,
(09:11):
fit for purpose ambulance service into the future.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Well, Andrew Thomas, the Saint John Ambulance Director of Ambulance Services,
really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you for joining
us on the show.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
No problem CARTI have a great day you too.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Thank you
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