Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, as you've heard, the NT Coroner has made seven
recommendations following an inquest into the death of a twenty
two month old girl who died at a Humpty Doo
childcare center. The coroner, Elizabeth Armitich, found that Ebonie Thompson
died from brain damage after her neck became stuck between
gate loops while she was trying to look over at
(00:21):
chickens in twenty twenty three. The gate was in a
blind spot and there was inadequate supervision of children in
the playground with no yard checks conducted before going to lunch.
That is what the coroner's reporters said, and the recommendations
now include strengthening fencing standards, documenting fencing and blind spot inspections,
(00:42):
and a supervision ordered of all childcare centers in the
Northern Territory. The coroner has also recommended the Northern Territory
government deliver an awareness campaign on the entrapment and strangulation
risks of loop top fencing that could be called Ebene's message.
Now we ask the Chief Minister Leofanocchio about this. Yesterday
(01:04):
she said that the Northern Territory Government is looking into
those recommendations. Extensively and they will not be sitting on them.
They will make sure that there is an extensive look
at those before any kind of announcement is made. Now
joining us on the line is Territory Childcare Group Director
Sarah Lloyd. Good morning, Sarah. I seem to be having
(01:29):
a bit of an issue there with the phone line.
Bear with me a moment, hopefully I've got Sarah now.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Good morning, Sarah, good morning.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Sorry to keep you waiting there. Now, Sarah, what is
your reaction to the recommendations from the coronial inquest?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah? So, I mean, anytime you know, a child's harm
is devastating for everybody, And I probably don't want to
talk about the specifics of your case, but I can
talk to you about supervision and fencing and so forth.
So I can say earlier this year, like much earlier
this year, every education and care service did do an
supervision audit and it was a very robust and quite
(02:08):
an extensive procedure where each service was created a supervision plan,
looked at blind spots, looked at risk minimization, and so
a large piece of that work has already taken place,
and that included all all services outside school of ours care,
family day care, center based care and preschools. And it
(02:29):
was a robust procedure where it was like flaw plans,
risk assessments and looking, you know, really looking at that
active supervision. You know, we have to be mindful that
we don't want children in a fish bowl where where
you know there's inherent blind spots, you know, in any
like in the family home in a sense, you know,
behind a couch, you know, there's never going to be
(02:53):
complete flow through vision, you know, three sixty vision, and
we wouldn't want that for our children. But I do think,
you know, it does go back to that act of supervision.
And that's a term that's going around a lot at
the moment where we're not just talking about supervision. We're
act definitely supervising and they are two different things. And
that's you know, that's where we need a skilled and
(03:14):
engaged workforce. Who are you know, who are prioritizing that
engagement and that supervision of children.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
But so, Sarah, as it currently stands, that supervision audit
has already happened across the across the Northern Territory earlier
this year, yep.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yes it has.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, that's I mean that is good to hear. I
think that it's sounds like by the sounds of it,
you know, the industry sort of acting quickly as well
to try and make sure that that children are as
safe as they possibly can be.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that you know, thousands of
educators care for children safely every day. And you know,
I think, you know, a tragedy like this is terrible,
and you know, we can only learn from it and
and sort of you know, continue to improve practice.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Now, tell me in terms of what the coroner has recommended,
I mean, do you think that some of what she
has recommended goes far enough? Or are there other areas
where you think there could be improvements across centers around
the territory.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I mean, there's always room for improvement for everything. But
what I have been saying is, you know, our National
Quality Framework is a robust, you know, gold standard regulatory framework.
You know, it covers the learning part and covers the
health and safety and risk and it is a pretty
strong framework. But I think the piece that that it
(04:36):
is it's like people driven. So if if we're not
compliant to that and we're not following that, that's you know,
that's where you know, as things can happen in terms
of like you know, in you know, more regulation. I
don't think that we need that, but what we do
need is good people in the workforce that follow you know,
(04:57):
that follow the rules. And I do think we needed
to make a distinction between the Northern Territory and other jurisdictions.
We're quite small and our regulatory authority QC and T
is very front center. You know, they are very present.
You know, they're you know, they're doing spot checks there.
They are out and about for sure, and being proactive
(05:19):
around you know, compliance and regulation. I think in other
jurisdiction it's volume. I remember many years ago having an
assessor come from New South Wales and they were saying
that the only you know, contact that a regulatory authority
has with the service was every three years, like that
was the only time they had a stepped toward in
(05:40):
the premises. But certainly not the case here. The regulatory
author is very visible and I think you know, we
can take some comfort in that that you know, it's
not far and nothing far away.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I agree. I actually think for a lot of parents
listening this morning, they will take comfort in that fact
and and want to know that that is happening, particularly
as we saw well the other terrible news which unfolded overnight.
The ABC four Corners investigation found finding almost one hundred
and fifty childcare workers have been accused or convicted of
(06:15):
child sexual abuse. I mean this is nationally obviously, I
want to be really clear on that. It's a national story.
So child sexual abuse or inappropriate conduct, but with less
than two percent convicted, meaning you know, many thousands have
gotten away with it, Like it just blows my mind, ye, Sarah, Yeah,
(06:36):
same here. And you must be like as somebody who
you know as an early childhood educator and the territory
childcare group director, somebody I'm sure who places you know,
so much effort into the work that you do, it
must actually make you really upset and really angry that
you've got pieces of garbage like this getting around. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Absolutely, And it was interesting, you know, because you know
the initial thought of the provider, you know, you want
to protect your staff and you sort of want to
jump in to the defending education and care, you know,
but that like that was a bit hard to swallow.
The you know, those kind of statistics and you really
do think, like, how does that happen, and I mean,
(07:23):
I guess, I guess. I mean, and part of the
reforms that are going to happen I hopefully will address this.
There are some shoan keeper ida's out there. I'm going
to say in the NT we're pretty protected from that.
But I do think you know, the measures that are
coming in in in you know, particularly the biggest states
on New soThe Victoria, you know where they're increasing compliance
(07:45):
and you know there's just more funding going into administering
the regulatory framework. You know, it has to have with
some results, but yeah, I don't know. It sort of
blew my mind a bit. I felt like very uneasy.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yes, I am here as somebody who you know, who
had my children in childcare. I've got somebody at work
here with me today is just send her a little
one off to childcare. You know, we entrust childcare workers with,
you know, with the most important thing in our lives,
our children, and the large majority of you you know,
take that responsibility so seriously. But it just it just
(08:21):
makes me question, how do we end up with people
who are literal pedophiles working in childcare?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah, I mean it goes back to the health you know, screening.
I mean, and you know, you know, vigilance and a
workplace culture around things that you know, I'm going to
say that you know from some of the things that
they said in the report last night that that's just
poor practice. Well you know they were saying, you know,
(08:50):
that person was able to video someone for up to
thirty minutes. That's like, I just don't can't envision any
kind of quality education care services that you would just
even have that opportunity. That seems like extraordinary. You know,
there's people everywhere, you know, in centers you need to
(09:11):
be alone like that for such an extended period of time.
I just don't know that that's nothing more than poor practice,
and the Senate coordinator or the director of that center
should be held accountable.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
For that one hundred percent. How like do you think
that there? I mean, I know it's a big call
to make. You can't possibly know what's going on in
every childcare center across the Northern Territory, but you know
there's going to be a lot of parents sending their
kids off to or their children off to childcare this
morning who might be feeling really uneasy. I mean, the
feeling that you and I have got that would be
(09:44):
magnified even more so. I'm assuming if they're dropping their
babies off today, Like, what would you say to those parents?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, I mean I think that as much when I
was don't want to diminish you know, what they were
saying in there, you know, the majority nine point wet's say,
seven percent of people doing the right thing, and absolutely
would have zero tolerance to that. I think. I do
think in the NT, you know, as services are of
(10:12):
you know, a higher quality, we don't have those sort
of like sort of outlies and you know those you know,
even one of those services they showed last night where
it's sort of seemed really substandard. I just don't think
we have that here. You know, in our services we
have viewing windows. So even if you make you we're
(10:33):
in a change room alone, that there's windows all around
the so to have like privacy, I guess privacy level
for the child, but you know.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
It is that you can see what the car is doing.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, you can see what's going on. Yeah, tell me.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I mean in terms of one of the things that
stood out to me as well is you know that staffing,
and particularly casual staffing, is that something that we grapple
with here in the Northern Territory. From your perspective, yeah,
it is.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And I do think that at the moment, you know,
like this year then SECT has taken a bit of
a bit of a blow, I think, and we are
I do have like serious concerns about attracting and retaining
staff when you know, you know, when sort of parents
the distrust or general community distrust, it sort of puts
(11:24):
a shadow over something. You know, early childhood is an
amazing sector. You know, small brains developing every day. It
is an amazing thing to see that there is a
little bit of a shadow and it concerns me that
you know that people will think do I want to
go into that sector and then we end up with
the wrong people in there.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
What do you think, you know, from after watching that
overnight and taking the Northern Territory into account, what if
any changes do you think need to happen for us
here in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah, that's an interesting question. Workforce retention is definitely well,
you know, new people coming in. Yeah, I do think
we need to have a I guess, like more of
a campaign about what early learning is and what that
looks like. Because we don't want to go to like
a bubble wrap, you know, where everything's about safety, you know,
(12:19):
I mean safety obviously is a parent paramount, but then
there's a late you know, there's layers around early learning
in there too, but it is going back to that
same messaging as well around get to know your service,
you know, see what happens, to spend time now and
see the interactions, because it's pretty obvious, you know when
you when you step into a service where you know
(12:40):
how how you feel about it.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I agree with you, and I reckon you know, when
you're in there, when you're dropping the kids off, when
you're picking them up, when you're spending a bit of
time in there talking to you know, to people that
are working in that center. I'm a big one for
you know, trusting your instinct and if you get a
bad vibe, and I'm sure that you you know, you
maybe feel this at different times as a director you
go nu, yep, that person's just not the right fit
(13:04):
to work here, or you know there's just something not
quite right.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, absolutely, And you know, with the commonwealths Government has
there's a range of measures that are coming in which
are are broadly positive you know, there's going to be
an educator register, so there's a national register, so that's
flip flopping around places they will be able to track that.
(13:28):
They're a new child safety which is not just mandatory reporting.
Mandatory reporting is essential, but you know, anyone can cite
the whole you're required to mandatory report. But this is
actually going to be child safe training, which I think
is a really great measure. And then one of the
other things that's going to be coming in which I'm
not I'm not sure if to find a detail has
(13:50):
been worked out about this, but currently you can get
sanctioned under the Commonwealth like Department of Education for CCA
child Care City compliance, and what they're looking at doing
is linking you know, consistently underperforming services where essentially your
(14:10):
childcare subsidy will be cut off. So you'll get sanctioned
for quality as well as like financial administration, and so
that that will be a measure to move those shonky
ones on.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I think that's a good thing because then you know,
you don't want those shonky operators able to continue to
operate in the way that they are.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
No and no one in the early childhood sector would
either like you're not going to get anyone who's going
to support, you know, under ratioed. You know, the premises
being you know, not meeting any any kind of standard
or constantly working towards making a premises meeting the standard.
You know, there's got to be a limit, there's got
to be a cutoff point. And because I guess the
(14:54):
government doesn't directly fund services, that's where that's where some
of the tension lies. If we were block funded, but
it would be different. But because the funding goes to
the parent, then the parent goes to the serve and
chooses the service. So yeah, so it is a bit
different than what I think. People get a bit confused
(15:15):
about how that works. So we're not directly funded at all.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
No, it comes through that payment, through.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
That payment that have passed from the parent to the service. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Well, Sarah, look, I really appreciate your time this morning.
I always do. Thank you very much for having a
chat with us and you know, giving us that perspective
from the Northern territory. I think it's really important. Thank you,
thank you, Thanks so much.
Well, as you've heard, the NT Coroner has made seven
recommendations following an inquest into the death of a twenty
two month old girl who died at a Humpty Doo
childcare center. The coroner, Elizabeth Armitich, found that Ebonie Thompson
died from brain damage after her neck became stuck between
gate loops while she was trying to look over at
(00:21):
chickens in twenty twenty three. The gate was in a
blind spot and there was inadequate supervision of children in
the playground with no yard checks conducted before going to lunch.
That is what the coroner's reporters said, and the recommendations
now include strengthening fencing standards, documenting fencing and blind spot inspections,
(00:42):
and a supervision ordered of all childcare centers in the
Northern Territory. The coroner has also recommended the Northern Territory
government deliver an awareness campaign on the entrapment and strangulation
risks of loop top fencing that could be called Ebene's message.
Now we ask the Chief Minister Leofanocchio about this. Yesterday
(01:04):
she said that the Northern Territory Government is looking into
those recommendations. Extensively and they will not be sitting on them.
They will make sure that there is an extensive look
at those before any kind of announcement is made. Now
joining us on the line is Territory Childcare Group Director
Sarah Lloyd. Good morning, Sarah. I seem to be having
(01:29):
a bit of an issue there with the phone line.
Bear with me a moment, hopefully I've got Sarah now.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Good morning, Sarah, good morning.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Sorry to keep you waiting there. Now, Sarah, what is
your reaction to the recommendations from the coronial inquest?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah? So, I mean, anytime you know, a child's harm
is devastating for everybody, And I probably don't want to
talk about the specifics of your case, but I can
talk to you about supervision and fencing and so forth.
So I can say earlier this year, like much earlier
this year, every education and care service did do an
supervision audit and it was a very robust and quite
(02:08):
an extensive procedure where each service was created a supervision plan,
looked at blind spots, looked at risk minimization, and so
a large piece of that work has already taken place,
and that included all all services outside school of ours care,
family day care, center based care and preschools. And it
(02:29):
was a robust procedure where it was like flaw plans,
risk assessments and looking, you know, really looking at that
active supervision. You know, we have to be mindful that
we don't want children in a fish bowl where where
you know there's inherent blind spots, you know, in any
like in the family home in a sense, you know,
behind a couch, you know, there's never going to be
(02:53):
complete flow through vision, you know, three sixty vision, and
we wouldn't want that for our children. But I do think,
you know, it does go back to that act of supervision.
And that's a term that's going around a lot at
the moment where we're not just talking about supervision. We're
act definitely supervising and they are two different things. And
that's you know, that's where we need a skilled and
(03:14):
engaged workforce. Who are you know, who are prioritizing that
engagement and that supervision of children.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
But so, Sarah, as it currently stands, that supervision audit
has already happened across the across the Northern Territory earlier
this year, yep.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yes it has.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, that's I mean that is good to hear. I
think that it's sounds like by the sounds of it,
you know, the industry sort of acting quickly as well
to try and make sure that that children are as
safe as they possibly can be.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that you know, thousands of
educators care for children safely every day. And you know,
I think, you know, a tragedy like this is terrible,
and you know, we can only learn from it and
and sort of you know, continue to improve practice.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Now, tell me in terms of what the coroner has recommended,
I mean, do you think that some of what she
has recommended goes far enough? Or are there other areas
where you think there could be improvements across centers around
the territory.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I mean, there's always room for improvement for everything. But
what I have been saying is, you know, our National
Quality Framework is a robust, you know, gold standard regulatory framework.
You know, it covers the learning part and covers the
health and safety and risk and it is a pretty
strong framework. But I think the piece that that it
(04:36):
is it's like people driven. So if if we're not
compliant to that and we're not following that, that's you know,
that's where you know, as things can happen in terms
of like you know, in you know, more regulation. I
don't think that we need that, but what we do
need is good people in the workforce that follow you know,
(04:57):
that follow the rules. And I do think we needed
to make a distinction between the Northern Territory and other jurisdictions.
We're quite small and our regulatory authority QC and T
is very front center. You know, they are very present.
You know, they're you know, they're doing spot checks there.
They are out and about for sure, and being proactive
(05:19):
around you know, compliance and regulation. I think in other
jurisdiction it's volume. I remember many years ago having an
assessor come from New South Wales and they were saying
that the only you know, contact that a regulatory authority
has with the service was every three years, like that
was the only time they had a stepped toward in
(05:40):
the premises. But certainly not the case here. The regulatory
author is very visible and I think you know, we
can take some comfort in that that you know, it's
not far and nothing far away.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I agree. I actually think for a lot of parents
listening this morning, they will take comfort in that fact
and and want to know that that is happening, particularly
as we saw well the other terrible news which unfolded overnight.
The ABC four Corners investigation found finding almost one hundred
and fifty childcare workers have been accused or convicted of
(06:15):
child sexual abuse. I mean this is nationally obviously, I
want to be really clear on that. It's a national story.
So child sexual abuse or inappropriate conduct, but with less
than two percent convicted, meaning you know, many thousands have
gotten away with it, Like it just blows my mind, ye, Sarah, Yeah,
(06:36):
same here. And you must be like as somebody who
you know as an early childhood educator and the territory
childcare group director, somebody I'm sure who places you know,
so much effort into the work that you do, it
must actually make you really upset and really angry that
you've got pieces of garbage like this getting around. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Absolutely, And it was interesting, you know, because you know
the initial thought of the provider, you know, you want
to protect your staff and you sort of want to
jump in to the defending education and care, you know,
but that like that was a bit hard to swallow.
The you know, those kind of statistics and you really
do think, like, how does that happen, and I mean,
(07:23):
I guess, I guess. I mean, and part of the
reforms that are going to happen I hopefully will address this.
There are some shoan keeper ida's out there. I'm going
to say in the NT we're pretty protected from that.
But I do think you know, the measures that are
coming in in in you know, particularly the biggest states
on New soThe Victoria, you know where they're increasing compliance
(07:45):
and you know there's just more funding going into administering
the regulatory framework. You know, it has to have with
some results, but yeah, I don't know. It sort of
blew my mind a bit. I felt like very uneasy.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yes, I am here as somebody who you know, who
had my children in childcare. I've got somebody at work
here with me today is just send her a little
one off to childcare. You know, we entrust childcare workers with,
you know, with the most important thing in our lives,
our children, and the large majority of you you know,
take that responsibility so seriously. But it just it just
(08:21):
makes me question, how do we end up with people
who are literal pedophiles working in childcare?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah, I mean it goes back to the health you know, screening.
I mean, and you know, you know, vigilance and a
workplace culture around things that you know, I'm going to
say that you know from some of the things that
they said in the report last night that that's just
poor practice. Well you know they were saying, you know,
(08:50):
that person was able to video someone for up to
thirty minutes. That's like, I just don't can't envision any
kind of quality education care services that you would just
even have that opportunity. That seems like extraordinary. You know,
there's people everywhere, you know, in centers you need to
(09:11):
be alone like that for such an extended period of time.
I just don't know that that's nothing more than poor practice,
and the Senate coordinator or the director of that center
should be held accountable.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
For that one hundred percent. How like do you think
that there? I mean, I know it's a big call
to make. You can't possibly know what's going on in
every childcare center across the Northern Territory, but you know
there's going to be a lot of parents sending their
kids off to or their children off to childcare this
morning who might be feeling really uneasy. I mean, the
feeling that you and I have got that would be
(09:44):
magnified even more so. I'm assuming if they're dropping their
babies off today, Like, what would you say to those parents?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, I mean I think that as much when I
was don't want to diminish you know, what they were
saying in there, you know, the majority nine point wet's say,
seven percent of people doing the right thing, and absolutely
would have zero tolerance to that. I think. I do
think in the NT, you know, as services are of
(10:12):
you know, a higher quality, we don't have those sort
of like sort of outlies and you know those you know,
even one of those services they showed last night where
it's sort of seemed really substandard. I just don't think
we have that here. You know, in our services we
have viewing windows. So even if you make you we're
(10:33):
in a change room alone, that there's windows all around
the so to have like privacy, I guess privacy level
for the child, but you know.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
It is that you can see what the car is doing.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, you can see what's going on. Yeah, tell me.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I mean in terms of one of the things that
stood out to me as well is you know that staffing,
and particularly casual staffing, is that something that we grapple
with here in the Northern Territory. From your perspective, yeah,
it is.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And I do think that at the moment, you know,
like this year then SECT has taken a bit of
a bit of a blow, I think, and we are
I do have like serious concerns about attracting and retaining
staff when you know, you know, when sort of parents
the distrust or general community distrust, it sort of puts
(11:24):
a shadow over something. You know, early childhood is an
amazing sector. You know, small brains developing every day. It
is an amazing thing to see that there is a
little bit of a shadow and it concerns me that
you know that people will think do I want to
go into that sector and then we end up with
the wrong people in there.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
What do you think, you know, from after watching that
overnight and taking the Northern Territory into account, what if
any changes do you think need to happen for us
here in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah, that's an interesting question. Workforce retention is definitely well,
you know, new people coming in. Yeah, I do think
we need to have a I guess, like more of
a campaign about what early learning is and what that
looks like. Because we don't want to go to like
a bubble wrap, you know, where everything's about safety, you know,
(12:19):
I mean safety obviously is a parent paramount, but then
there's a late you know, there's layers around early learning
in there too, but it is going back to that
same messaging as well around get to know your service,
you know, see what happens, to spend time now and
see the interactions, because it's pretty obvious, you know when
you when you step into a service where you know
(12:40):
how how you feel about it.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I agree with you, and I reckon you know, when
you're in there, when you're dropping the kids off, when
you're picking them up, when you're spending a bit of
time in there talking to you know, to people that
are working in that center. I'm a big one for
you know, trusting your instinct and if you get a
bad vibe, and I'm sure that you you know, you
maybe feel this at different times as a director you
go nu, yep, that person's just not the right fit
(13:04):
to work here, or you know there's just something not
quite right.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, absolutely, And you know, with the commonwealths Government has
there's a range of measures that are coming in which
are are broadly positive you know, there's going to be
an educator register, so there's a national register, so that's
flip flopping around places they will be able to track that.
(13:28):
They're a new child safety which is not just mandatory reporting.
Mandatory reporting is essential, but you know, anyone can cite
the whole you're required to mandatory report. But this is
actually going to be child safe training, which I think
is a really great measure. And then one of the
other things that's going to be coming in which I'm
not I'm not sure if to find a detail has
(13:50):
been worked out about this, but currently you can get
sanctioned under the Commonwealth like Department of Education for CCA
child Care City compliance, and what they're looking at doing
is linking you know, consistently underperforming services where essentially your
(14:10):
childcare subsidy will be cut off. So you'll get sanctioned
for quality as well as like financial administration, and so
that that will be a measure to move those shonky
ones on.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I think that's a good thing because then you know,
you don't want those shonky operators able to continue to
operate in the way that they are.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
No and no one in the early childhood sector would
either like you're not going to get anyone who's going
to support, you know, under ratioed. You know, the premises
being you know, not meeting any any kind of standard
or constantly working towards making a premises meeting the standard.
You know, there's got to be a limit, there's got
to be a cutoff point. And because I guess the
(14:54):
government doesn't directly fund services, that's where that's where some
of the tension lies. If we were block funded, but
it would be different. But because the funding goes to
the parent, then the parent goes to the serve and
chooses the service. So yeah, so it is a bit
different than what I think. People get a bit confused
(15:15):
about how that works. So we're not directly funded at all.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
No, it comes through that payment, through.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
That payment that have passed from the parent to the service. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Well, Sarah, look, I really appreciate your time this morning.
I always do. Thank you very much for having a
chat with us and you know, giving us that perspective
from the Northern territory. I think it's really important. Thank you,
thank you, Thanks so much.
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