The Week That Was - 10th October 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, it's the week that was with a splash of
cap quality radio auction in there as well. Of course,
the station throwing out programming today except for the week
that was to raise money for this very worthy cause.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Now all the money raised.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Of course, is going to support camp Qualities, vital programs
bringing positivity, fun laughter as well to the kids and
their families when they need it most. And in the
studio with us this morning, well we've got Matt Cunningham
from Sky News. Good morning to you.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Matt today, Katie.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Lovely to have you on the show.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
And we've got Robin Carl who is the Minister for Children, Families,
Trade and Business. Good morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Robert.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Good morning Katie. It's great to be back.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
And Robert, I think you've joined us with a gift
that we can auction off as well.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Is that right I have? I've bought what I'm calling
a relaxed pack, so some wine, some glasses. I'm pretty
sure there's a candle in there, some chocolates and mum
brag moment I'm thrown in a copy of my son's
first published novel.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Oh how awesome.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Well, I tell you, what were you thinking about yourself
and me and maybe Selena Yubo when you're thinking of
that relax pack, and Matt Cunningham as well.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
We all probably need a relax definitely.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
There's a fifty dollars gift fatchure in there too, just
in case we've missed down.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
What's the book about.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
So it's a it's a fantasy novel. It's all about
an assassin with who uses magic. Yeah, it's a pretty good,
very cool. It's a pretty good read, vailable on Amazon
called The Black Emperor. There's a plug good stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Well, look, if you are keen to score yourself that
relax pack, we'll keep it going till about eleven o'clock
this morning, so you can call through eight nine four
one four nine and then also on the line. Well
in Catherine, this morning we have got the opposition leader,
Selena Yubo. Good morning to you, Selena.

Speaker 5 (01:44):
Good morning Katy and Selena.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
I think you've got something that we're going to be
auctioning off a bit later this morning too.

Speaker 5 (01:51):
Yes, Katie, I've got a gift card for the Spirit
of Darwin, the Sunset Cruise. Everyone in Darwin loves the sunset.
We know how visitors do as well, so it's to
the value of two hundred and seventy dollars, which is
the equivalent of two adult tickets for that sunset dinner cruit.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Oh sounds nice. I can do that. And the relaxed pack.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Got the weekend sorded for Camp poality.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, we will get into it.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
We will certainly talk more about all of those wonderful
auction items that we've got up for grabs throughout this morning.
But it has been a massive week when it comes
to news and politics, and the Chief Minister yesterday announced
that she's appointed Martin Dole APM as the fifteenth Police
Commissioner who's going to be based in Alice Springs.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Now Cabinet endorsing the appointment of mister.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Doll for a four year term which will now go
to the Northern Territories Administrator, Hugh Heiggy.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
I believe that that process is already happening.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
That ceremony then going to be held on the thirty
first of October to mark Commissioner Doll's tenure. Now quite
a bit of sort of well, I guess response from
different areas at this point in time. But the Police Association,
they have congratulated mister doll to his appointment as commissioner,
but raised serious concerns.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Over how it's happened.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Now they've said that he is respected a respected, long
serving officer, but raised concerns about well how the appointment
was made. The direct appointment was made. I did ask
the Chief Minister on the show yesterday, you know, is this.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
A job for the boys?

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Which is exactly I guess what we've sort of gone
through with the blow review or report. I mean, what
do you make of it all? Matt, I know you're
covering this quite extensively yesterday. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
I look, it's interesting, isn't it. It's interesting that he
was appointed that there was no process because I think
there was sort of certainly a view amongst a lot
of police officers that they perhaps thought the best option
might be to bring someone in from inter state just
as a sort of a new face, not carrying any
baggage from before. And that's no criticism of Martin Day,

(04:00):
who's done a good job in the last seven months,
I think. And he's, you know, someone who's got twenty
nine years of experience in the anti police force. He
clearly knows all of the issues, not just you know,
the issues that people facing Darwen and Alice Springs, but
the issues in remote communities as well. He grew up
in Yuindamu, so you know, there's little doubt that he's
well qualified for the job. I think there will be
a few questions being asked, as they are by the

(04:21):
Police Association this morning though, about why a direct appointment
was made rather than running a recruitment process which could
have cast the net far and wide for you know,
just to see whether there was you know, another handduck
and out there who could have been appropriate for the job.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
I mean, Robert obviously endorsed by by the cabinet. You
know what made the cabinet go all right, we think
this is the right choice rather than going through a
recruitment process, particularly when you look at that blow report
and the fact that you know, recruitment had been such
an issue within the Northern Territory Police for well, you know,
for at least the last few months.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
We've all been reporting on.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
It, Katie. As you said, the cabinet looked at this
and believed that this was the right choice. It's a process,
it's allowed under the relevant legislation. The reality is that
Commissioner Doll has been doing this job for the last
seven months. Some might say it was his longest job
interview ever. And he's done a really good job. He's

(05:22):
actually delivered some great reforms into the territory. He has
overseen the rolling out of the various processes that we
are committed to making the community safer. He helped deliver
a successful best paid police officers in the country EBA.
And he's born and bread And I was interested to
hear that people going, oh, we needed someone from interstate.

(05:44):
I always hear the exact opposite when when I talk
to people, so it's like, oh, we don't want anyone
from outside coming and telling us what to do. So look,
I think, well, I think, you know, we were very
confident that he's the right for the job, and I
think he'll do a great job. And look, you know,
if the Police Association had an issue, why didn't they

(06:07):
put a submission into the blow review. They declined to
do so, they didn't actually have a say when they
could have a say, So, you know, take that issue will.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
Given how much angst there clearly was within the police
about you know, the belief of some officers that people
were being appointed to positions not on merit, whether those
whether those feelings were true and valid or not. There
was certainly a belief that people in the police force

(06:39):
were being promoted to higher positions and that wasn't and
it wasn't being done through a proper process. Given the
background there, it wouldn't it not have been more appropriate
to run a proper recruitment process when you were seeking
to appoint a new police commissioner.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
I think looking at all of the things that people
might be considering and facing, we really took all of
that into account and absolutely, absolutely, one hundred percent believe
that Commissioner Dole is the best person for the job
and is already proving that he can do it.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
I mean, Selena, what do you make of it?

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Do you think that Martin Dole is the right person
for this job or do you think there should have
been a more open and transparent process to appoint the
next commissioner?

Speaker 5 (07:23):
Thanks Katie, I congratulate Commissioner Dole in his appointment. I
think you know he's dedicated work across the Northern Territory
does speak high volumes. But I do agree with Matt
on this one. I think the key issue in the
concern is why not have an open recruitment process for
such an important position in the Northern Territory. And I think,
you know, if it had ended up with the same

(07:46):
result with Commissioner Doll being appointed, then at least territories
and particularly the police force would have that confidence that
they've been supported in the very concerns that were raised
which started the Blow Report and the Blowing Inquiry which
produced the last week around recruitment process. I think that's
probably dimmed a bit of the shine on the appointment.

(08:06):
I think it's great that there is an appointment. I
think that's what the police really need. They want to
have an official leader and I think this will really
make some headway now to making sure that the police
inquiry is implemented, that there's some real meat on the
bones when it comes to unpicking the Blow Report and
taking on some of that action around recruitment process. I

(08:27):
think that will go a long way to support the
morale of our men and women in blue. But I
think overall that there is unfortunately that little bit of
a gray cloud over why not have that open process.
Why not see who's the best of the best in
the country to make sure that they can serve territory
in to their best ability. And again it's no slide

(08:47):
on Commissioner Doll. I think this will be a go
a really long way to serve not just the community,
but the police force and the morale that has been
low at the moment. So I just think it's really
put a dim on that line.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
You know. The thing I've found quite interesting over the
last few months is and certainly maybe over the last
I don't know what period of time, but something I've
noticed within the Northern Territory Police Force at the moment
is we seem to have a lot more access to
being able to get the police, you know, on the show.
I feel like there are more sort of police, you know,

(09:21):
there's more opportunity or there's been more of the police
wanting to go out, hold press conferences things like that
to try and be more open with the public. I
don't know whether that's being felt or whether you know,
whether the community is noticing that or not, and whether
that is sort of a directive from the now Police
Commissioner Martin Dole, But you know, from an outsider looking in,

(09:42):
I totally take on board the discussion that's being had
in the concerns around the association, saying well, if you
just make it open and transparent, you know, it does
sort of take away any opportunity. Then I guess for
people to criticize that it's been a captain's pick. But
things do seem to be running fairly smoothly. I could
be I could be, you know, viewing that I'm from
the outside. I'm certainly not within the Northern Territory Police Force,

(10:05):
so I don't know how people are feeling. But things
do seem to be running relatively smoothly at the moment.
One thing I will say about Martin Dole is before
he was in this position, and matter I know you'll
recall this as well. You know, he was one of
the few police when things were really bad when it
came to crime who came on the show and actually
acknowledged that, actually said that, you know, crime, I think

(10:28):
it was you know, three times worse, was it? Matt?

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Do you remember five years tripled in five years?

Speaker 1 (10:34):
And you know, I sort of respect it when people
are upfront and you know, they might be delivering a
shit sandwich, but they're delivering it, you know, And I
think that that's something that I actually want to see
from the police. I want to see openness and transparency
and honesty. I want to see it from governments and
oppositions as well. But you know, to me, I hope

(10:54):
that he brings that as the police commissioner, and that
when things aren't I did that he continues to stand
up and go, Okay, well this isn't ideal, but this
is what I'm going to do to fix it.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
And I think you're absolutely right, Katie. He's demonstrated very
clearly that he has all of the capabilities. He's very
good in that leadership roles. I've the only comments I've
heard on the ground from people when they've talked about
commission role are really positive. And this is delivered certainty
to the police force at a time when it's been

(11:27):
quite challenging for some people. And I think the certainty
and knowing that they have a leader who understands the environment,
who absolutely is committed to supporting them and the community,
and as you said, is not afraid to have people
say what they want to say or what they feel
they need to say. And I think that's an absolute
breath of fresh hour.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Look, I hope it continues because sometimes when people end
up in those roles, it changes does not match.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:54):
Well, I think the important thing about that, though, Katie,
is it's not about the message that you know is
given to you or I. It's about the message that's
given to the general public and that is given to
rank and file police officers. And I, you know, I
reckon on that issue. It kind of reached an all
time low following Zachary Rolf's acquittal when Jamie Chalker stood

(12:18):
up for a press conference sort of begrudgingly and then
sort of made a six and a half minute statement
and then took off without and refused to take any questions.
And people had so many questions at that time, and
not just the media, I mean members of the public
had questions. Rank and file police officers in particular had questions.
You know. That was an issue that tore the heart
out of the Northern Territory Police Force, and the way

(12:38):
that it was managed caused, you know, crushing morale, you know,
And I just think, you know, if you're in the
position of leadership, you need to be able to cop
a few wax and to stand up and make your points.
And you can't as a leader go running and hiding
and saying, oh, you know, that's someone else's problem to

(12:59):
sort out or to do. You're with you know, the
buck stops with you when you're in charge, and that
means that there are times when you need to front
up and answer hard questions. So hopefully you know that
long continues.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, well we can only hope. Look, we're going to
take a really quick break. As I said, there is
so much to discuss this morning. Up next, I want
to talk about that white car missuse. If you've just
joined us, We've got Selena Hubo on the line, I Catherine,
We've got Robin Carl in the studio and Matt Cunningham
in the studio as well. Now, on Friday last week,

(13:29):
news emerged that the NTI opposition leader have miss used
the white chauffeur car service for personal use, attending multiple
social events and medical appointments. Now, Selena, obviously you outed
yourself after THEO the ABC, I should say, FOI documents
and uncovered that you'd use that white chauffeur car service
for personal use attending multiple social events and medical appointments. Now,

(13:53):
on Monday, I then interviewed Joe Hersey and she admitted
to once using the service to go to an appointment Casurina,
but it was then being reported again by the ABC
that a FURTHERFOI request and revealed that she also attended
a restaurant at Cullumbay, a phone shop, as well as
a medical center in Palmerston. She says they were not

(14:15):
personal use. I mean, however, you look at this, it
is murky, to put it nicely, Robert of you ever
misused that white car service.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
Absolutely not, And I can say that all of my
colleagues are very very careful when using that service. And
I think I think the thing that it kind of
sounds sexy, doesn't it, white cars whatever. But the reality
is as a minister, for example, there are some nights
and these would be the rare occasions that I'd use it.

(14:45):
I need to go to three events in the space
of three hours, and the logistics of navigating that are
simply impossible, you know, getting somewhere on time, parking, getting
to where you've got to go. There's also security issues
that people may not realize. There are events that we
are at times required event to attend where parking your
car and walking a distance skit somewhere is really not

(15:06):
a smart thing to do, and the practicality of moving
around in those roles and.

Speaker 4 (15:13):
Nights. I have to get to three events in one night.
That's actually that's most week nights. You know, footy training here,
basketball training here, dance here, like that's literally every night.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Your choice.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
I don't need a why, and it's your choice to
be a politician. But I don't see why. I don't
know why we have it. I remember, I remember that.
One of the most refreshing things I've ever seen is
the first time Eva Lawla, when she was Chief Minister,
came in to do an interview in my studio and
she rocked up in her own bloody car, and I thought,
good on you.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
Actually, it's around the corner driving all the time like
the rest of us do. Why are you so important?

Speaker 4 (15:51):
It's not look with respect, sorry, minister.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
That's the other thing.

Speaker 4 (15:58):
They've got these army of a advisors who run around
calling them minister, minister, this.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Minister that I mean. I'd like I would like to.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
Think if I was a minister and someone call me minister,
I would say, that is the first and last time
you do that.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Well, I have to look. There will be a lot
of people who tell you this who I say, please
call me Robin, and they really struggle, I.

Speaker 4 (16:20):
Know, because it's a stupid culture that's ingrained in that
stupid big white building up there, that has left them
all thinking that the smell of what comes out of
them when they go to the toilet in the morning.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
Exactly. I'll swat places with you for a week and
let's see how you feel.

Speaker 4 (16:36):
But I just want to say, it's like there's this
delusion of grandeur that comes to people, to people who
are to antique politics. You say, I need to have
this white car to drive me around and all these
people to run around calling me.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
That's available across the country.

Speaker 4 (16:53):
I know, but I don't think it should be here.
We're like a glorified local council. We don't need white
cars for our ministers like to me.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
I don't have a big issue with them using with
ministers using the white car or the opposition leader, so
long as it's for work purposes. So if for example,
you're coming here for an interview, if you've come from
another meeting and it's a tight turnaround, I don't have.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
A big issue with that.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
But then when you're getting you know, dropped off to
restaurants or you're getting taken to other, you know, appointments
that are non work related. I do have a big
issue with that now. Earlier in the week, Joe Hersey
had tried to justify that on the show by saying, Katie,
if I were to hire a car, you know, I'm
paraphrasing here. You know, if I were to hire a car,
it would cost xyz, whereas you know, the cost to

(17:38):
the taxpayer for me to use that vehicle to get
to Casharina, I think she said was a dollar fifty
And I was like, well, hang on a set, how
do you work that out? And that was somehow with
you know, with the fuel and with the mileage, and
I thought, well, I'll call bullshit on that for a start,
because obviously those white cars need to be maintained. You're paying,
you know, for a driver to obviously be able to

(17:59):
drive that vieaw. But for me, it was a little
bit of insight into how some people may view the
white car service and thinking, Okay, well it's cheaper for
the taxpayer for me to use.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
ASH rather than hire a car.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
I don't necessarily know nor necessarily agree, but what I
know from a bit of digging myself. Is that also
for Bush members, you know, they get four hundred dollars
a day allowance travel allowance if they come to Darwin
for work or if they have to travel for work. Again,
understand that you're going to need that to pay for accommodation, etc.

(18:32):
But to me, and I know I'm being a bit
colorful with my words, but it's taking the piece. If
you're getting four hundred dollars a day, then you're using
the white car and you're you know, you're reaping the
benefits of those perks. I mean, Selena, I know that
you apologize for it earlier in the week and you've
now sort of banned yourself from using those white cars,
but it's you know, it's.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
A bit rich.

Speaker 5 (18:56):
Yeah, Katie, I did the wrong thing. I'd reviewed those
trips and realize, well, when you're coming from work and
going and getting dropped off to something that is then personal,
then that will be unacceptable in the eyes of many
community members. So I wanted to show that I understand
that and that I had made those mistakes. I've taken
those steps to rectify those mistakes. I have paid back

(19:20):
that invoice. I mean, I can't speak for anybody else.
But we don't need to make excuses if we've done
the wrong thing. It doesn't matter who you are, what
position or role you're in. We should be very upfront
with Territorians, and we do have a bigger spotlight on
us when we are in public office. I absolutely recognize that,
except that, which is why I've apologized. I know I've

(19:40):
done the wrong things. It's not what I expect of
myself or my team. So I wanted to be very
upfront with Territorians about that. But I just don't understand
why you would then make excuses if someone else is
in that sort of position of being asked, you know,
if you've taken a personal trip, you know, and then
trying to avoid the scrutiny of that. I just don't
understand that we need to be upfront with Territorians so

(20:02):
we can continue to do our job well for Territorians.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
I mean, so for you though, Selena, you weren't able
to answer on the show earlier this week whether you'd
misuse that car while you're a minister either, I mean,
are you are you prepared or able to answer that now?

Speaker 5 (20:18):
Yeah, Katie, I don't have the detail in front I mean,
if that's something people want me to do, I could
go back and do that. My focus has been now
as the leader of the opposition and looking at what
my twelve months of service in this position has been,
and that's what I focused on for this issue, and
being gre upfront with territorians about it.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
I mean, I guess this is a question for everybody
on the panel. Does this white car service need to
be reviewed in some way? Like do we need to
be actually looking at the way in which it's it's used.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
Well, I think one thing we need is a copy
of the rules. And my understanding from seeing the latest
ABC story is that they've been asking for a copy
of the rules and the government hasn't been forthcoming, so
and I think they should at least provide a cop
you the rules so that we can determine whether the
cars are being used with him or not.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
And look, I want to be really clear here that
I don't think that this is just an issue of
this term of government or the opposition leader Selena Ubo.
I actually think that this is something that you know,
like these kind of rules, they're ingrained, they've been there
for a while. I understood that the former government had
like a cabinet handbook that they were supposed to adbide

(21:25):
by with some of those rules.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
I don't know, is it the same for you guys, Robin.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
There is a handbook which covers a whole range of things.
And as I said before, as my experience with using
this service when you need to use it, is that
everybody is really mindful of that and that they follow
the rules. And I'm kind of lucky because where I
live is in my electorate and where a lot of

(21:50):
ie you walk everywhere, so I will walk everywhere and
get called minister by random people in the street, which
really really freaks me out. I have told him to stop.
It's a really hard thing to break a habit that's
been in the in place for a long time. But
it's look, I think it's it's absolutely something that we're
all really aware of. And everybody that I've worked with,

(22:11):
everybody in a team, is very very aware of the
fact that what we do is funded by the taxpayer.
And I've always taken the approach in everything I've ever done,
in any role I've ever had if this was coming
out of my pocket, would I be spending this money
or would I be doing this thing. And that's that's
the philosophy that I believe my colleagues take as well.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
Well, what are the rules around the use of.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
The word You use it for work purposes.

Speaker 4 (22:36):
It's just that that's the rule.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
Well, that's the summation of it.

Speaker 4 (22:39):
Yeah, right, So if you're going to so if you're
at Parliament, for instance, because one of the instances is
that you know the Chief Minister is at Parliament, there's
a CLP Party wing catch up at Fanny Bay Super Pizza.
She takes the card to super Pizza? Is that work purposes.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
I've never actually attended a CLP Party wing at any event.
I've attended events with my parliamentary colleagues from time to time.
But it's work is work, and every time we step
out into the community, that's work.

Speaker 5 (23:11):
Robert. If the example that Matt's just given was asked
to the Chief Minister yesterday, it was once parliament, I understand.
Once Parlament has finished on a Wednesday, the COLP go
out and have the team dinner and that's great, good
team bonding for them. Using the white car for that purpose,
that's a dinner that's after work and then traveling to
wherever after that backed home back to Parliament, whatever it

(23:33):
is that would be counted as a personal event, which
is similar to my example which I left Parliament nine
pm on a Tuesday night, went and had dinner, and
then continued on to my accommodation. So I've paid that
trip back because I recognize there is that blurred line
between finishing work, getting home and then having a meal
in between, which is why I was up front and

(23:54):
spoke about that. The Chief Minister flat out denied that
yesterday when she was asked by several media outlets in
the press conference. So how does that give territorians comfort
if there's one rule for one person and a rule
for everybody else. And it goes to Matt's point he
just made earlier about leadership, about asking and answering questions,
responding in difficult and uncomfortable times to be able to

(24:17):
provide that information and be upfront with Territorians and Leifanocchiari
did not do that yesterday.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
I can't. I'm not going to speak on behalf of
the chief minutes, so that would be highly inappropriate. All
I can say, I just.

Speaker 5 (24:30):
Did you said, all of your colleagues that are very
aware of being able to do the right thing. You've
just done that. You've done a blanket conversation or comment.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
We are all aware of you.

Speaker 5 (24:40):
You're all aware has been asked individually, she has said
something that contradicts what is in black and white about
her travel. You've now spoken to you about it yourself,
which is great, But then you've made a blanket comment
for the rest of your colleagues who have not come
up and been upfront and answered any of the comments
that are being asked by any of our territory outlets

(25:01):
and media to provide certainty to territorians that there hasn't
been a similar type of mistake made by them.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
So again, as far as I'm aware, and I haven't
spoken to the Chief Minister about anything, I didn't hear
any of the conversation that you're talking about. As far
as I'm to my knowledge to in my experience, everybody
is well aware of the rules and everybody absolutely complies
with the rules.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Look, I would say, in fact, to both sides of politics,
you know, I think you'd both be pretty hard pressed
to not find members of your team who haven't used
the car inappropriately.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
To be really frank about.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
It, and if this isn't the notice that everybody needs,
and I don't know what is and Selena, same goes
on your side, Robins, same goes on your side. I
think that everybody needs to be really aware that the
public do not think it's appropriate if you are not
using that vehicle for work purposes. And that's been made
very very clear to me this week. But look, we're

(26:03):
going to have to take a really quick break. You
are listening to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty
eties the week that was, Well, if you have just
joined us, see it is the week that was, but
it's also Camp Quality Radio Auction Day and we are
currently sitting at ten thousand dollars all ready raised and
we'll be talking more about that after the week that was.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
But if you've just joined us this morning, we've got.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Matt Cunningham, Robin Carl and Selena Ubo on the show. Now,
as I've been saying, it's been a very busy week
when it comes to different political announcements, etc. And earlier
this week we found well, we learn that new measures
are going to be introduced to whole parents accountable for
not sending their children to school. Now from term four

(26:46):
parents who consistently fail to get kids to school, they're
going to be referred for income management. Minister for Education
Joe Hersey saying children who regularly miss out on school
are more likely to become disengaged and fall into crime
and anti social behavior. Now the School Attendance Team's going
to lead the approach focusing on parents and careers of

(27:08):
students who've been absent from school for twenty days or more. Now,
Robin king to ask you, I mean, as the minister
who's got the portfolio of children and families, from your
experience in your role, how many kids have we got
not going to school because of neglect?

Speaker 3 (27:31):
I think one of the biggest challenges in this space
is that kids not going to school usually is linked
to things that are happening in the home, and it's
often violence, alcohol, you know, just a whole overcrowding, dysfunction,
and it's linked to the fact that they don't get
a good night's sleep, they're hungry, they are out on

(27:53):
the street kind of getting away from whatever's going on
at home. And we've certainly are taken the approach in
children's and families in those situations. Income management is one
of the ways we actually will deal with that because
it's a way of ensuring that well we move it
from fifty percent to seventy percent, that the baseline requirements

(28:15):
that you would expect a parent to give a child
of a roof over your head, a safe place to sleep,
and food on the table, that that money can only
be spent on that. So it's a strong message to
those families. And we're dealing with young parents often or
parents who haven't really had that parent role model. So
we're trying to unwind a situation where often people aren't

(28:38):
of they really don't get what being a parent is
all about, and it's an entry point to be able
to do that. I think we've found that income management
can work quite well because it changes the discussion and
the dynamic in that situation.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
I mean, I guess at different times we've sort of
seen different iterations of this hues before or haven't we
Has it been effective in the past, I mean, Matt,
you've been around the territory for a long time. I
know you've reported on this kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
Well, I think you know the basics card is something
that you know, I don't want to speak for an
Aboriginal woman because I'm not one, but I think that
my understanding that there's a lot of Aboriginal women in
Selena will have a better view of.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
This than me.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
But who.

Speaker 4 (29:21):
Think that the basics card has been helpful in some
ways because it's meant that at least fifty percent of
that money is quarantined to be used on you know,
everyday necessities and can't be spent on alcohol or gambling
or other things. So, you know, And I know that
there was sort of a review that the federal government
was doing during its last term about that, and I

(29:41):
know that Marian Scrimminger took Amanda Rishworth for a walk
around the town camps of Alice Springs and quickly changed
her mind on, you know, whether income management should be
abolished altogether. So I know it's a difficult space when
it comes to the school attendance thing. You know, I've
seen some criticism of the government sort of saying, oh,
you know, this will mean kids will go hungry or
you know, blah blah blah. I think I think that's
a bit misguided one because usually when kids go to school,

(30:05):
especially if they're from a home where they might not
be getting a decent meal or three decent meals every day.
Those kids are often fed at school fed. And the
other thing I would say is that we're not talking
about taking money away from these people. We're just saying
that that money will need to be spent on necessities
for your family and your children rather than on other things.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
And the income management space changes the dynamic of the
control of the money, so it's not the woman, for example,
is often the person who cops the flag. They're the
one who they didn't make the decision. Government's done this.
It changes the big bad wolf if you like, to
somebody outside of the family unit, and certainly the families

(30:49):
that we've been involved with where we've implemented this, and
it's interesting. It has been in for a long time.
I think the basic card, which is that's generic fifty
to fifty. Where we've escalated or wanted to escalate to
say seventy percent, where we've found homes where it's really
really challenging. There hasn't been a lot of willingness at

(31:10):
that higher federal level to progress that. But we're making
some inroads, which is really great. They're starting to understand
just how important it is and how when you go
to a community, and you've got babies who are now
being branded as growth faltering as opposed to failure to thrive,
because apparently that's a really negative term, and there's a
reason for that. Income management can help sort that out,

(31:32):
because that money can then be directed to actually feeding
those kids and keeping those kids healthy.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
Selena, I know I asked you about this earlier in
the week. You'd certainly raise some concerns.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
You know, what is your take? Do you think that
this is the wrong move?

Speaker 5 (31:48):
Yeah, Katie, though I did speak earlier in the week
about this, I feel quite passionately about education, and I
think obviously the electorate that I represent with Anna and
I've got very strong refeaces from people who are very
confused and understanding why this particular policy will be implemented

(32:08):
rather than people going and doing that work with families
that need that extra support. I agree with half of
what Robin said earlier around the reasons. Of course, don't
agree with using income management as a form of punishment
and a per unitive approach when it comes to supporting
our kids to get to school across the territory and
supporting families and carers. I think this demonizes the education

(32:33):
system because it puts the negative light on education. I
think it needs to be a positive light. From my
experience and my belief as well, I think there needs
to be a lot more work done. We did talk
earlier in the week, Katie. I don't want to recycle
my comments, but some of the the policy that has
been recycled by the COLP didn't work in the past,
and I find it quite confusing as why they think

(32:55):
it'll work now. I have not seen one single document
that provides detail. I've been asking for it, that provides
detail around the formulation or the calculation of what the
income management would look like. So if Robin said that
you know this is already being used and there's been
some great results, then very keen to ask her and

(33:17):
her team for that documentation around how is this calculated,
who's implementing how is it being implemented, because I don't
believe that there is that level of detail, and I
need to be able to tell my constituents that that's
what the government is implementing, and I can't even provide
any of that detail to them.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
So I'm going to throw a little bit of a
bucket of water on that. Sorry, Selena. I'm a fair
bit older than Selena, and so I've been around for
about one thousand years now. And back in the been
nineties there was a some work done where some consultation,
a lot of consultation happened in remote communities where the
women in those communities were begging for the old family

(33:57):
allowance to be linked to school attendance because they were
similar to the situation we're in now, looking after the
grand kids because their kids had just basically dropped the ball.
It took a lot of work and we eventually got
the federal government to agree to that, and we saw
an absolute escalation in the late nineties, early two thousands

(34:17):
of kids attending school. And if you talk to Saint
John's College, they will say that was their peak. They
were full. They had kids at school because the parents
couldn't get that family allowance unless their kids were at school.
And it worked really, really well. It fell apart when
I think it was under the Rudd government. They changed
the way in which those allowances were paid and made
it very complicated. So it does work. There is a

(34:40):
way to do this, and it's not the first step.
It's the thing that happens after all other things have failed.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Well, and look, we also learned this week there's a
new initiative launch that's going to see Aboriginal Liaison Officers
placed in territory schools. That program's going to deploy forty
alos over four years to provide culturally appropriate responses to
school and community issues. And the alos are going to
work closely with students, families, and teachers to provide support

(35:06):
on issues that impact students well being and attendance. I
saw a bit of yarn on the ABC News last
night and a couple of those alos speaking on the news,
and they seem pretty excited about the job. You know,
obviously it's early days. Look, I'm really hopeful that any
changes can actually make a difference because I just believe

(35:26):
that education, much like sport, much like you know, kids
having an interest in the arts or whatever it may be,
that it can give you purpose in life. So if
you can get kids to school, if they can be
enjoying school, if they can have a pathway, and you
know see that other people besides their parents believe in them,
I think it's such. You know, it is an absolute

(35:48):
essential for every child, no matter where you come from.
So for me, I am ever hopeful that these changes
will make a difference. And I don't think that we
can just continue on the same part that we're on
and not ever change anything or try things differently if
it's not working.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
What did Einstein say? The definition of insanity is doing
the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
The reality is.

Speaker 5 (36:12):
Exactly what you guys are doing with the management.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
The result, the absolute result is that and it's working, Selena.
As I just explained, back in the dark, dim dark ages,
it had fantastic results when family allowances were linked to
school attendance thirty years ago.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
Thirty we're not the dim dark ages.

Speaker 5 (36:33):
Years ago. You do your job, you're a minister. Now,
what are you doing now?

Speaker 4 (36:36):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (36:36):
So the engagement now.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
So I think the ALO program is fantastic because one
of the things that the only way we're going to
change behavior in communities is to get communities to actually
take control of the situation and to actually work together
to make this happen. And having aboriginal liaison offices working
in communities, working with families, working with the kids, getting
to understand just how important going to school is. And again,

(37:00):
this is a well, this is a flick back to
I think it was a labor government initiative in the
early two thousands where there were people who used to
go around in communities who were Aboriginal. They went called
alos then, but they were people from the communities who
lived in the communities, and that was their job. They
went around, they talked to families, they talked to kids. So,
you know, you can't. I think it's a great thing.

(37:22):
I'm not sure. There's things that have dropped off over time,
and I have a philosophy that works. We stop it.

Speaker 4 (37:28):
The remote school attendance strategy teams still exist, Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
Think so them do so. Yeah. I think anything where
you can actually sit down with the community and really
work with them intensively and have people who are from
the communities understanding what's going on in that community working
to make that happen. There's not a one simple thing
that's going to address this issue. We cannot have situations

(37:54):
continue where we've got kids who never go to school
and kids who if we get them their fifteen percent
the time, we think that's great, because it's not.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Look, we're going to take a quick break. You are
listening to mix one oh four nine's three sixty eight
is the week that was currently sitting at ten thousand
dollars in the Camp Quality Radio auction. Before we wrap
up for the morning, I'm keen to just talk quickly
about the Alice Springs Aboriginal Art Gallery. We know that
the Northern Territory Treasurer well sort of giving the federal

(38:22):
government a bit of an ultimatum earlier in the week
saying it will the Federal government he reckoned, was saying
that it wouldn't happen. Well, they wouldn't support the proposed
multimillion dollar Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander Art Gallery and Alice
Springs in its current design and location. Now, I spoke
to Catherine King on the show yesterday.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
She said to me, you.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Know, from her perspective, what had happened is funding It
obviously been committed to by the federal and the then
Northern Territory government. The scope and location had been agreed
upon with the former Labor government. Then, of course the
cop was elected, the scope and the location had changed.
She said she found it a very interesting negotiating tactic

(39:03):
for the Treasurer Bill Yan to then be coming to
her and saying, well, you've got to meet this deadline
when she's the one holding the purse strings.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
I mean, I'm paraphrasing her there.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
But look, I thought it was interesting as well, and
I actually thought to myself, is an authern Territory government
actually just trying to get out of this project and
wanting to blame the feeds for it?

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Robin, Look, I think let's just get a couple of
the facts straight first. Okay, So, yes, there was an
agreement by the previous government with the Labor government for
location and design, and that design was scope to cost
one hundred and fifty million dollars and that's the available funding.
When we came into government we found that the cost
had blown out to three hundred million dollars. There was

(39:45):
a conversation my I'm advised with the Treasurer and the
Prime Minister was involved at some point is there more
money available? The answer was no, which is fair enough
because there was an agreement reached. So either we could
be fiscally irresponsible and continue to build a project probably
would have by now blown out to four hundred million dollars,
or we could go how can we do this within

(40:06):
the budget. And we also had made the commitment to
the Alice Springs community that we would not basically get
rid of something that was an iconic sporting location for them.
So the location hasn't really changed significantly. It's just moved
slightly sideways, and the project has been scoped to budget.
So what we've been waiting for for quite some months

(40:28):
now is advice from the federal government as if they
would accept the new scope within budget. So either they're
telling us they want us to be fiscally irresponsible, or
we're just saying we want to do this, but we
can't do it with the funds that were available to there.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
Go and sit down, or why not give Catherine King
a call instead of issuing a pressure release saying she's
got to come back to us by this time of
the day.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Well, my understanding is there's been many conversations and everybody's
still waiting for an answer, and it has been it
has been several months now that we've been waiting for
that answer. So we need to know because we need
to go ahead because, as everybody knows, if it drags
out longer, we're not even going to have enough money
to do the scope that we've now done.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
So Selena, I mean, what do you make of this.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Obviously, Unfortunately, there's quite a bit of history of labor
not really managing projects and sticking to budget.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
I mean I can think of a few off the
top of my head.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
But you know, is that the situation here should you
guys have been a little bit more careful about what
you're promising.

Speaker 5 (41:28):
Katie, I think the biggest disappointment here is that Central Australia,
particularly Alice Springs, is looking more and more likely to
be missing out on this game changing project. I think
there was years of ups and downs that negotiations around
that particular project, around the land tenure, around the positioning,
around the scope and scale the design. There was an

(41:50):
advisory committee, There was lots of conversations across the Ala
Springs community, from industry, from community members, from traditional owners,
you know, for against everything in between. And I think
ultimately people want to see a project of scale in
Alice Springs because of that economic opportunity more and more
now with the downscaled pretty pitiful you know, downscaled project

(42:14):
that the CLP has proposed, like all the hard work
was done, all the government needs to do is to
build it. Now they've missed that opportunity you can't.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Build a project, you speak, that's going to cost three
hundred million dollar. I mean, that's the bottom of mine.

Speaker 5 (42:29):
You know, Robin, you just had a nice little spill
without me interrupting you. So please provide me with the
same type of respect Alice Springs. Ultimately, now Katie is
going to miss out and more and more. It looks
like this is the tactic of the CLP to run
away from the project and to leave the people of
our springs high and dry.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
And I guess this is where people have got a
choice though, you know, is it a situation where you go, okay,
we simply can order afford this, you know, or we
go ahead and we end up in a situation like
we're in with the ship lift. I mean, I think
we've got to be responsible with taxpayers money. However you
look at it, I actually think the project should go ahead.
You know, it is something that tourism operators want to

(43:08):
have happened. But we can't spend money like we're playing monopoly.
We have to actually, you know, make sure that we
are spending it appropriately and you know, doing things within
budget and doing things to the scale that we can afford.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
That Look, this is a project that can go ahead.
And I would have thought that the most practical thing
that the labor opposition could be doing here is lobbying
their federal counterparts to say, can you please get a
decision out of government about the new scope. We are
not going to commit to a project that we do
not have the money to fund unless the federal government
are prepared to pitch in the difference. And the advice

(43:44):
is that that's not the case. This project can go ahead,
but we need an answer, and we need one now. Well.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Look, unfortunately we're going to have to leave the politics there,
fortunately or unfortunately, I guess it depends. You know how
you're feeling this morning, because it is Camp Quality Radio
ops and I simply cannot let you two ladies leave.
Matt's already had to run off, He's had to go
and do another interview. So big thanks to Matt Cunningham
from Sky News for joining us on the show. But
I cannot let you to leave without talking once more

(44:13):
about the wonderful auction items that you have kindly donated
for the Camp Quality Radio auction, because we want to
bring in as much money as we can. Robin Old,
go to you first, tell us more about what you've
bought in and you know what, we might expect people
to pay for it.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Okay, so it's a relaxed pack. It's a nice little
bottle of wine that has actually been signed by my colleagues.
So you might not want to open it. You might
want to do something else with it. Whatever. That might
be a couple of glasses to go with that, some chocolates,
a fifty dollars gift foucher. I'm pretty sure there's a
candle in there too, and if there's not, let me

(44:53):
know and I'll pitch one in. And my brag moment
my son's first published novel, which is very exciting, territory
boy Born and Bred, wonderful, a really good read. So
I think you should do that, all right?

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Well, I reckon, surely we can at least kick this
off at fifty bucks at the very least for the
relax pack.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
I think we can get more for it. But if
you do want.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
To call in and place a bid eight nine one
oh four nine, then Selena Yubo, well you've got a
beautiful sunset cruise.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
For us, don't you.

Speaker 5 (45:28):
Yeah, And I just want to say a big shout
out to the crew at Camp Quality, Katie, I know
they do an amazing job to support our kids in
our families across the territory and the work they do
at a very difficult time for our young people. So
this is such a great cause. Yes, I'm really excited
to be able to donate a gift card for the
Spirit of Darwin a sunset cruise which we'll cover two

(45:49):
adult tickets for that beautiful cruise with a dinner.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
How nice. And Katie, I'm just going to throw one
more thing on the table because this is the territory,
right ye, simply the best play this song for me.
I'll give you two fifty, all right, we'll do that
for you.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
I'll get Sarah, who's coming in to help me out
for the next hour, to line up that song for us.
Robin Carl, thank you so very much for your time
this morning. Thanks for joining us. Good Yeah, wonderful to
see you and Selena you both. Thank you so much
for joining us this morning. From Catherine, wonderful to have
you on the show as well.

Speaker 5 (46:24):
Thanks so much, Katie, and please everyone dig deep for
Camp Quality.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Thank you