The Week That Was – 11th October 2024

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, a very good morning to you. Thanks so much
for everybody tuning in this morning, and what a busy
morning we're a set to have because in the studio
for the week that was, we have got Jared Mayley,
the Deputy Chief Minister. Good morning to you. Better make
sure I've got the right microphone on the let's just
turn them all up just in case. Matt cunning Home

(00:20):
from Sky News, good morning to you. Hang on, I
don't think I'm hearing anybody at the moment.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
That's gonna hold me here.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
You're all here and Daran Young, thank you so much,
the deputy leader of the opposition. Got the two deputies
in here, and we are expecting Cat McNamara from the
Greens as well. Running a little bit late, a bit
of a mix up with the timing, but look I
do want to head straight to some news, some pretty
terrifying news I think from overnight. The Northern Territory Police

(00:49):
say that they've now arrested a nineteen year old woman
following a series of random attacks in perap yesterday evening.
At about six fifteen pm. Police received multiple reports of
the woman pursuing individuals with scissors and attacking them. Three
victims suffered injuries during the incident. A woman in her
sixties was taken to the Royal Darwin Hospital by Saint

(01:11):
John Ambulance with non life threatening injuries. A seventy year
old man and a twenty seven year old man suffered
injuries and were treated at the scene. Now CCTV operators
monitored the situation in real time, enabling police to quickly
locate and arrest the offender nearby. She was taken into
custody and transported to the Palmerston Watchhouse, where she's since

(01:33):
been charged with three counts of aggravated assault and one
count of going armed in public. She's been reminded to
appear in the Darwin Local Court today. It is horrifying stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yes, Katy, this is one of the reasons why the
COLP took the election, that we're going to reduce crime
across the Northern Territory not thinking about her. Imagine these
poor victims is randomly doing their every day to day
business getting stabbed by someone in the street. That is
just completely unacceptable and that's why the Sealpia government and
next week in Parliament which is our first innings, are
going to introduce those Jackline law amendments to make it

(02:07):
tougher for these criminals to be out on the street,
because we know that the territory needs to be a
safe place and you need to be safe, and it
right now is not happening.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
It's horrifying. Like I think to myself, my mum often
comes into town from man and Greta, you know, and
works in parap Imagine if you're walking to your car
and someone comes at you with a pair of scissors,
you know, I mean even just looking at that, a
woman in her sixties, a man in their seventies, you
would absolutely you'd be quite terrified someone coming at you
with some scissors. Right.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
The whole thing was live streamed on the Mango Enquirer
and it's pretty frightening to watch. Well, certainly the aftermath
of it. I think it started on the bus from
what I can gather, and then Shannon from the Mango
Inquirer is actually following this woman around until the police
arrest her. And one of the victims is actually you know,

(02:57):
there in his video. So it's pretty confronting staff to
see it and to think that someone is just just
wandering around in a Darwin suburb doing that it's quite scary.
I mean, I don't know whether there are other issues
at play there, but you know, I think when when
there are random attacks like that, it's like the one
we saw outside the Nightcliff barber the other day a

(03:19):
couple of weeks ago. You might have been away, Katie,
but there was a man there who was stabbed by
somebody's walking in to get his hair cut and he
got stabbed there. And there were other people who were
injured in that random attack as well, and then there
was you know, obviously worst case scenario. You saw what
happened at Bondi earlier this year, and I think just
those sort of you know, incidents where it's totally random,

(03:42):
where you know, people are running around stabbing people that
they don't even know, I think that's quite frightening for
the public.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Oh, it's absolutely horrifying, isn't it to run? I mean,
there's no other way to put it.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
Yeah, it is.

Speaker 5 (03:53):
You know, it's very unacceptable and it's pretty concerning. And
my thoughts so with the victims as well. Obviously that
would have been pretty scary moment for them themselves. But
I think too, you know, we don't know the details
of this yet it's obviously quite it's only just come
out as well, and obviously there's some underlining issues for

(04:13):
that young lady to actually have an episode like that,
and you know that that probably needs to be addressed
to you know, what's going on, what triggered that type
of behavior. It's quite concerning that.

Speaker 4 (04:24):
Someone would be doing that.

Speaker 5 (04:25):
And yeah, you know, I think that we don't have
the details of the whole incident yet.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Look, and you know, you very often do think and
you wonder sometimes when these types of incidents happen. And
we've seen over the years in different locations, not just
here in the Northern Territory, but sometimes mental health issues
are behind different different issues that do occur. Now, I'm
not saying that that's the case here. I've got absolutely
no idea, But what I can say is that over

(04:53):
the last couple of days, we've actually been contacted by
parents in the Northern Territory and people that are sort
of saying to me, look, my child does have mental
health issues or my loved one does have mental health issues,
and they're not able to receive the support that they
actually need in the Northern Territory right now. So, as
I say, I'm not trying to draw conclusions out of

(05:13):
something where I don't have that level of detail. But
what I do know is that we have got some
issues in the Northern Territory when it comes to making
sure that people are receiving the support and treatment that
they need.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Be worth talking to Robert Parker about it, I think,
because I know that that part of our health system
has been not just stretched, it's been stretched beyond breaking
point for a long time. You know, we've had what
they call them outliers, which are the ones who can't
be treated in the mental health dedicated mental health facility
who are then having to be treated in the emergency

(05:45):
department in the hospital. We've reported on this before, Katie,
and it's caused all sorts of grief, both of the
patients and in particularly for the staff who work in there,
who've been put in some pretty terrifying situations. So it
really is something that we haven't got a handle on
at the moment. It's been an issue for quite a while,
and that's an issue I think that you know, it
needs to be addressed urgently by the government.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
And ultimately, remember there seems to be this crime spread
right across the territory, doesn't matter where you are, and
it's just been going through the roof. And that's one
of the reasons why the colp are going to bring
in these type of bail laws to deal with these people.
There needs to be a consequence.

Speaker 4 (06:18):
People in the.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Going about their day to day business need to be safe.
And what we want to do is we want to
send a message out there to territories. If you commit
a crime, you're going to face the manae committed sentence
lab that.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
Absolutely this is a consequence.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
I think most people, including me, would agree with that.
But there also needs to be the proper services in
place for if there are people who are mentally ill
who end up in the system, whether it be the
health system or the justice system for whatever reason, that
they are able to get the proper and adequate treatment
that they need, and in many cases at the moment
that they're unable to because that that service is just

(06:55):
stretched beyond breaking point, you know, like that there there
are I think there's been an increase in people who
have mental health issues for whatever reason, and I just
think at the moment our health system doesn't have the
capacity to adequately deal with those people.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
Look, I fully agree with you.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
And you see, or Pea government have been in power
for some four or five weeks and we're looking at
these issues and it's just across the board it seems
to be that they've been let down year after year
after year, and now it's time for the Sealpe to
come in and fix it. And unfortunately the Labor government's
left was with eleven billion dollars worth of debts. We
don't have this huge bucket of money. So we need
to make sure that we're smart about this because those
people need to be protected. The innocent people in the

(07:33):
charity need to be protected, and we need to get
that balance right.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Look, we have just had a message come through from
Amy and she said, get Akatie. I'm very damn brave
of the Mango Inquirer Shannon on chasing the woman stabbing
people yesterday, avoh until the police got her. His warning's
probably saved lives. Many give him shit, but he got there,
but not this time. And yeah, look I agree, he's there, right,
he was there and he was brave enough to be

(07:55):
following her around of filming, so that if you.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Also warning other people to get out of the way.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, so good.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
On him.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah. Now, look, I want to continue our discussion and
just sort of move it a little bit further, I
guess because we know that yesterday the Colp government unveiled
the penalties proposed for assaulting frontline workers. Now they were
being they're going to be introduced into parliament next week.
It was the same day, or twenty four hours later,

(08:25):
less than twenty four hours later, that a female paramedic
returning home in Alice Springs at the end of her
shift was set upon and assaulted. Saint John Director of
Ambulance Services Andrew Thomas said the female paramedic was returning home,
as I said, after her shift and was punched a

(08:46):
number of times to the head. She suffered a concussion
and soft tissue ish injuries as I understand it. He
has said that the Saint John team in Central Australia
had been shaken by that incident. As they got well,
they got out of their vehicle and was attacked by
someone there. It's again, it's it is really horrible behavior

(09:09):
that I don't think anybody thinks is acceptable, right, Like
it's someone returning home from work, but I just it's
a whole other level when you're somebody who's going out
there to help other people and you're returning home from
what was, no doubt a busy shift, and that happens.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
I was going to make it very clear the COLP
government wanted to support workers, whether you're frontline worker, whether
you're working in the in your backyard business. But this
type of behavior and this attacking these people, especially the
front line there they're protecting you, they're they're protecting territories,
and yet this serious assault happens on a paramedic whose
job is to try and save people. It's just completely unacceptable.

(09:46):
And I know that the CELP government in the last
term tried to bring in laws about protecting the workers,
and I know the Labor government voted them down and
rejected them. But the COLP now have committed to making
the law stronger and we're going to protect these territorians,
protecting frontline workers. And we want to send the message
out there if you assault or attack a frontline worker,
there's going to be a consequence. How long will they

(10:06):
get well, there's going to be a management It depends
on the injury. So if you spit on someone three months,
if you physical harm which agains a medical term three months.
So it just really depends on what the injury is.
But what we want to see the clear messages that
if you assault at frontline worker, managem miniment seems going
to attach to it and it's going to be a consequence.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
I mean, look, I think that we have seen time
and time again frontline worker is being assaulted. There's no
doubt about that. How broad ranging is it as well? Though,
dur it is it just is it sort of just
your police officers and your paramedics. Is it also those
working in corrections? Is it like people working at the hospital.
How wide ranging is that?

Speaker 4 (10:45):
Well, it's going to be a worker.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
So if you're a worker, and we're going to focus
on the frontline workers because they're the ones out there
protecting territories. But if you're a worker going about your
lawful business and you're attacked at work, that's when those
managem miniitfum is going to come into play. And again,
it depends on the injury you receive, but we want
to clip send a clear message out there to territory.
It is not safe, it's not good, and we will
not tolerate you attacking emergency workers.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
So it's emergency workers. So we're all workers, so service
station attendant for instance, I know that they put up
with a lot as well. I think it's concerning. Like
just reading camp Smith's story on this incident, one hundred
and forty paramedics experienced serious physical or sexual violence in
the territory in the past twelve months. So that is
absolutely terrible.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
It's just unaccepted.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
You know, that's sort of one every three days. And
you know, I mean, they do an amazing job, those paramedics.
They shouldn't have to put up with that sort of treatment.
I can only imagine what it's like for them.

Speaker 4 (11:39):
You know, I totally agree.

Speaker 5 (11:40):
You know, any attack on frontline workers is unacceptable. I
understand there's already penalties in place for that type of
behavior and incidents as well, but you know, I think
to looking at the bigger picture, putting people in the
prison system, it only results to a revolving door people
coming in and out of jail. You know, we want
to look at solutions that actually work, Programs that actually

(12:02):
work to rehabilitate people, to ensure that we have safer communities.
So when people if unfortunately they're in touch with the
justice system, we want them to come out and be
rehabilitated to make the community.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Safer, which I'm certainly hearing at the moment's not necessarily
the case in the sense that we have got you
a prison system that's absolutely overflowing. I think we all
understand that I've been given some background detail by some
correctional officers and I won't be able to go into
too much detail until next week, but we're they're essentially
saying that some really bad stuff is happening at our

(12:34):
correctional facilities at the moment. I'm talking assaults on workers
like we've just touched on, I'm talking assaults on other prisoners.
And then when this kind of thing's happening, and they're
also telling me that the prison is absolutely overflowing as
we know, But how like are any services, there are
any programs actually then being delivered when the place is

(12:55):
so busy.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
That's the problem, because I am the correction of misses.
I've receive and briefings about how the prison is, and
it's just completely links back to the labor guvernment over
the last eight years failed to put the infrastructure in.
They knew the numbers are going up, they had all
the information and I'm surprised how much information you get
because now actually see what the labor government have been
able to get for the last eight years, and they
chose not to do think about it. They left it

(13:17):
how it was and soid it'll be right, but it's
not right. So now the seal Pa guvernment's coming in
to clean up the mess. We've briefed the Corrections Commissioner
with myself and the chief on many occasions to come
up with a plan to fix it.

Speaker 4 (13:28):
So we're working out right.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
Now and we think we've come up with a plan,
but we need to fine tune it, we need to
cost it because unfortunately, we're not going to fix this
labor mess after eight years in one week or two weeks.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
So we're going to get on top of it.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
And we know that there's ninety six beds coming on
in our springs soon because there's those cottages which are
there which seem to be installed incorrectly. So they're trying
to fix that at the moment, and so we're working
on it. We've got a plan and it's a really
high priority of our government to make sure that the
prison numbers are dealt with properly because we want to
offer those rehabilitation programs which the Labor government forgot to do.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
We want to talk about the mandatory.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Alcohol rehabilitation is part of our commitments because a lot
of these issues we talk about our drag and our
cohore writers. So we want to make sure that this
becomes a health issue like you spoke about earlier, and
we want to make sure that those see will get
that treatment so they don't go back into jail into
the future.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
So what's the plan. Well, I can't. I'm not going
to tell you.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Like the plane, you've got a plan, you may as
well tell us what we're working on a plan plan.
The Labor government used to say, oh, we're going on
a plan.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
The planning we will, we will end?

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Are you going to repurpose the don Dale and the.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
As facility?

Speaker 3 (14:39):
All I'm going to say is everything is on the table.
We are going to make sure that we may.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well beyond everything's on the table. You've got a plan.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
So we're working on a plan, I said, and we
were ready to.

Speaker 4 (14:49):
Go, and we've got to step backwards already.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
We are going to announce this in due course. But
what we're going to do is we're going to make
sure that we spend the tax payers money wisely, because again,
eleven billion dollars get through the labor gumment, so we
don't have this huge bucket of money to fix it.
And we also know you can't just build a prison overnight,
so it takes a lot of time to build.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
A prison and a lot of money to build a prison.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
And we want to focus on the rehabilitation of those
prisoners that going back in there.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
That's what we're going to focus to our listeners. Kat
Magnamara from the Greens has just joined us in the
studio as well. Get akat, thank you for your time.
What do you make of this whole situation?

Speaker 6 (15:21):
Well, I want to know particularly any plans about alternatives
to custody. So if we're talking about the prisons being
full and overflowing and the pressure on staff, is that
one of the alternatives where people are looking at the
fact that we can fill our prisons to the brim,
it doesn't appear to be working, and we're talking about
the lack of programs or things in there. I just
was looking and reading this morning about an alternative to
custody program in our Springs for women and because we know,

(15:44):
we have the highest recidivism rates in the country right
it's like over sixty percent of people offend again. And
this program in our Springs, I think they had eighty
percent of the women that went through this alternative custy
program didn't reoffend afterwards.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Everybody you reckon.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Look, we are definitely looking at that because that's what
we want to try and do. We want to stop
these people going back into the prison. We want to
be able to give them an opportunity to change their
lives around so they can get back and be a
member of the community who's actually going to be productive
and pay the taxes and get a job. So we're
going to work hard on that. We've committed to the
mandatory treatment of alcohol because a lot of these people
are alcoholics and they don't want to get treatment, so

(16:19):
we want to make sure that they get the treatment
to be able to turn their life around.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Look, we are going to talk alcohol very shortly. We're
going to have to take a very quick break. There
are so many messages coming through on the text signe,
so I might have to read a couple of those
out as well. This morning, you are listening to Mix
one oh four nine's three sixty It is the week
that was. You are listening to three sixties week that was,
And if you've just joined us in the studio today,
we've got the Deputy Chief Minister Jared Mayley, We've got

(16:42):
the Deputy Opposition Leader Daran Young, we've got Kat mac
namara for the Greens and Matt Cunningham from Sky News. Now,
there has been a lot of announcements over recent days
about the legislation that's going to be introduced into Parliament
for next week. It's a lot of legislation that the
Opposition and is pushing forwards with and one of those

(17:03):
pieces of legislation is around the changes to public drinking.
So we know that stronger laws is what the Corp
government said to deal with nuisance public drinking and problem
drunks will be introduced, debated and passed. The Chief Minister
saying the new Nuisance Public Drinking Offense is going to
give police powers to fine, charge and arrest people in

(17:23):
public places where alcohol is prohibited, as well as issuing
those same people a seven day band drinker order. Look,
the issues around public drunkeness are something that's been very
well documented on this show. We've had numerous discussions about

(17:44):
people drinking in those public places and it then turning
to bad behavior. I mean, Matt, you and I had
spoken a bit before the election about an instance outside
the Northern Territory News and Sky News studio where there
had been people that were drinking there for a couple
of days and it then turned into quite a bad
role in the.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Car park, someone chasing another guy around with a machete.
It was quite confronting, and they've been camped there for days,
if not weeks, I think, I mean, and I mean
it's yeah, there's a little sort of grass area there
and go through there, and I was walking through there
just the day before yesterday when this announcement was made.
I didn't have to wander far from the office to

(18:23):
get some footage because there's just cast wine casts and
Bundy rum bottles and VB cans just strewn everywhere. So
I think, you know, it does become a problem when
it goes beyond someone just having a drink in the
park to you know, some pretty unruly behavior that impacts
you know, other people who are just trying to go

(18:43):
about their business.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
This will give the police the opportunity to be proactive
and go and stop that behavior before it starts, because
you're right, Katie talks about, it leads to those problem
drinks later it's either domestic violence or they go and
break into a place to get some more alcohol, or
it's just actulutely violent between themselves. And people see that,
and you know, we're a lot of a big count
of tourist that come up here and the last thing

(19:05):
we want to be able to do is portray ourselves
as a place for people sitting in the parks drinking,
fighting and then it commits to crime. So we've listened
to the territories, we've listened to the police. This will
give the police some power to be proactive and go
and deal with those problems at the very beginning. And
they're also be about to ask their names and say
is there a breach of Baylor, Is there a breach
of prole Are there any breaches of domestic violence orders?
Because we know you can have domestic violence orders where

(19:26):
you can be together as long as.

Speaker 4 (19:27):
You're not drinking.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
And what the history is is that people be in
a relationship, they're fine when they're not drunk, but when
they start drinking, they cause some dramas later, so the
police recognize that, and domestic violence orders allow for that
to happen. So it gives the police the power to
be proactive and also makes our streets safer because there's
not going to be that crime happening later on into
the future.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
I know they'd previously been concerns that or the reason
I suppose that the two kilometer rule had been abolished
in the first place was to decriminalize that drinking in public,
is my understanding. I mean, Jeran, what do you make
of the legislative change that's being proposed.

Speaker 5 (20:02):
Yeah, look, I'm very concerned about this new change to
the legislation. Criminalizing people who have substance abuse is not
the way to go. We know that people need to
be again put into programs to support and it's quite
concerning around the press release and the language that Jared's
using to just assume that people are already criminals, that

(20:24):
people are you know, may have domestic violence orders or
breach of bail's orders. Like you know, you can't just
assume that because people are drinking in the park. But
this will put a lot of pressure on our justice system.
We've already got a justice system that has those pressures
in place. So yeah, I'm pretty concerned about it.

Speaker 6 (20:44):
Kat, What do you, Mike, Well, I mean, we're looking
at a situation when we just don't have like well funded,
accessible rehabs and things like that, you know, So I
think you know, when you talk to people who are
like workers in this space, they say that most people
know they know if they need help, and they know
they want to get it. But you know, if you've
got really long waitless and things like that, you know,
if people can't access the help they need, what's going

(21:05):
to spill out over onto the streets. So then we're
just going to criminalize them instead of actually offering the
help that they need.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
I just wonder if the government's mandatory alcohol rehabilitation program, Jared,
I mean, is it a case where if police come
across people who are nuisance public drinking, will they then
be referred to mandatory alcohol rehabilitation. What's the process when
it comes to taking someone who is on the street

(21:30):
drinking potentially causing problems to getting to the mandatory alcohol
rehabilitation that the government's proposing.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
Well, look, ultimately, if the detail exactly how you get
from the street into the rehabilitation program hasn't been worked.

Speaker 4 (21:43):
Out yet, but we are. What we want to try
to plan. What we want to join is make the
streets safer.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
And we understand that these people have been drinking for
a while and they've got a problem, and we want
to deal with those people. And I disagree with what
you're saying that people cat that people who know they've
got to and they want to go and get help.
These people don't want to get help. That's the problem
that we face at the moment. They go into the
hospital and they just walk out. And I've seen it.
They go in there and the nurses say, were trying
to treat these people and they just walk off.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
They don't want to be there. So we need to
make sure that these people get.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
The help they need through manatory rehabilitation of alcohol and drugs,
because they're the people out there who causing crime as
it rolls on, and we want to make them have
a better life, to give them an opportunity to make
better decision. So we want to try and help them
when we can, and know we's not going to help everyone,
but if we can say fifty or sixty seventy percent
of these people and get their lives back on track. Well,
that's going to be a win for the territory and
it's going to reduce crime.

Speaker 6 (22:34):
And I just like say, that's not just my opinion
that these people want help. These workers have directly told
in that time time again they've got people languishing on
waitlists who desperately want help and they can't get it.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Now. Look still on the discussion about alcohol, I know
that the Association of Alcohol and Other Drug Agencies Northern
Territory is called on the new Northern Territory government to
retain minimum unit pricing as a major, evidence based and
cost effective policy to reduce alcohol related crime, and him
the Executive Officer, Stephanie Holmes, has said alcohol attributed death

(23:04):
rates for Indigenous Territorians are ten times higher than the
national average and two times higher for non Indigenous Territorians
and that it's critical that the new government invests in
effective alcohol policy reforms in the Northern Territory. Jared, what's
going to happen with this minimum unit pricing? Is it
going to be scrapped?

Speaker 4 (23:24):
It is going to be scrapped.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
We've committed to that and we've heard from various sources
across the territory that what it's doing is driving these
people to drink the heavier drinks. And Matt has said
earlier he went just next door into all run bottles.
I ride my pushbike around and the chief rive and
we see people drinking. Evidence of these people drinking in
the morning off the gym, bean bottles and run bottles.
So what we're being told is what is doing is
forcing these people onto the heavier types of spirits and

(23:47):
they're becoming more intoxicated and more causing more crimes. So
we want to make sure that we get rid of
that because there's no evidence that has worked. The money
is raised and that goes to the public and doesn't
go into the taxpayers to pay for these managory health
programs that we want to want to get in place,
because that's the second part of the question.

Speaker 4 (24:03):
We're not just going to do that. We're going to re.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Visit and look at these managment programs and make sure
these people are available or sorry, programs are available for
these people to get help when they need it.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Well, Jared, look, they say the ADAENT, so the Alcohol
and Other Drugs Association say that there's been a fourteen
percent decline in alcohol related assaults in Darwin as a
result of that minimum flaw pricing. I mean you said
there's not evidence to support that. Do you think they're
making it up.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
No, that's just one party and we hear what they
have to say. But we're looking at the big picture here.
We want to make the charity a safer place and
we think and we went out there to the election
in this commitment, and we won the election, and we've
got to mandate to make the charitory a safer place
and that's part of our electoral commitments and we're going
to press on with that because we want to make
sure the teritory and territories are safe.

Speaker 4 (24:51):
And this is a good place. I was born here.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
This place is worth fighting for. I want to make
it a land of opportunity what it.

Speaker 4 (24:56):
Used to be.

Speaker 6 (24:58):
I'd just like to say that. I think when you
talk about saying that the evidence isn't there. The big
elephant in the room, and the question is who's saying that.
And the elephant in the room is the alcohol lobby
and their influence on this, because that hurts that bottom
line because when you talk to alcohol policy researchers, right,
people who have that's just their job.

Speaker 7 (25:13):
They live and breathe.

Speaker 6 (25:14):
Looking at the results in the data, they say that
the evidence is crystal clear that the lowering the price
is going to cause more harm.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
So do you reckon the government's being held to ransom
by the alcohol lobbyists.

Speaker 6 (25:25):
We have a really big problem here in the territory
with the influence of lobbyists, that includes your alcohol lobby
and they've had a lot to do with this and
the dialogue around this. So I'd be asking what do
people have to gain about this when they're saying there's
no evidence, when the researchers say there absolutely is evidence.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
I think that the problem with that argument, and I
saw one of the people in the release you were
quoting in the news saying the same thing is that
when it comes to the floor price, the extra money
that's charged goes to the retailer, So the retail is
actually profiting from the increased price under the floor price.

(26:00):
Actually think the alcohol industry is such as has a
big gain from the floor price when it comes to
the data that you told. I'd love to see the
raw data because I've previously done my own analysis and
I don't have a horse in this race, Katie. I
remember when the previous government, the Gunner government, first brought
in the floor price. I said good on them, because
what previously had been done had not worked. But the

(26:22):
data that I have looked at when it comes to
the floor price doesn't show evidence of things improving. I
think we talked about this last week. When it was
first introduced, we saw a decrease in alice springs at
the time, but it coincided with the introduction of the
palis on the bottle shops. That is one measure that
has proven time and time again to be effective when

(26:44):
it is used and when it is taken away. We've
consistently seen alcohol fueled harm increase, and yet at the
same time, over the same time period in Darwen and Palmerston,
where there were no palis, we didn't see alcohol issues
come down. In fact, we saw a slight increase in
them in Darwen and Parmesan. So I'm not sure that
what data they're relying on there. I see they're saying

(27:05):
a fourteen percent.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
Decrease.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
I'd love to see the raw data because I've seen
other reports that show that the floor price has not
really had any impact, and other reports that have even
said that there is evidence that the floor price is
pushing people off cask wine and onto hardest spirits like
Bundy rum, and that we are seeing then increase violence
as a result of the shift from one alcohol product

(27:29):
to the other.

Speaker 7 (27:30):
And I'd just like to I would love to see
the evidence.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
Of who is putting those reports forward.

Speaker 6 (27:34):
Because from what I understand, it's not that people are
going and drinking rum and spirits.

Speaker 7 (27:38):
It's actually that they're drinking less.

Speaker 6 (27:39):
There is this evidence to say that you put the
price up, they will drink a less amount, and so
that's where they get.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
I just don't know if I believe it, you know,
like just anecdotally, Yeah, well, this is the thing, Like
just anecdotally, I mean when you do go around the place,
and I know, for a while there there was like
you'd walk along the Stuart Highway there near Parap and
there was just rum bottles littered around, you know, like
around the place. And it's it's a serious issue. We all, like,
we all understand that, and I'm all for anything that

(28:07):
we can do to try to minimize the terrible issues
that we've got in the Northern Territory when it comes
to alcohol related harm because I think we see so
much of it right, you know, when you talk about
domestic violence, when you talk about assaults, just crime more generally,
but even in terms of people's well being. But I
do think that there needs to be We'd love to
see what.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Measure they're using, because I don't think anyone who lives
in the Northern Territory would say that between twenty eighteen,
I think when the floor price was introduced in twenty
twenty four, we've had a decrease in alcohol fueled violence.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
We saw things absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Spiral out of control in our springs and we know
that was largely because alcohol was allowed back into town camps,
but even in Darwin, across the board. I mean, if
we've seen a fourteen percent decrease over the last eight years,
I must be living in a different city.

Speaker 7 (28:53):
But no one thing is going to solve the problem. No,
I agree.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
I agree that no one thing's going to solve the problem.
But I don't think we should use things if they
don't work. I have the same view and I've had
it for a long time. On the band Drinker Register,
it was born in under the Henderson government for one
year it had no impact alcohol related assaults and alcohol
department emergency department presentations increased over that twelve months, and
yet for the next however long, it was held up

(29:17):
as the great holy grail of ending our alcohol issues.
Like I think we need to if something doesn't work,
As I was saying last week, we need to have
an absolutely independent, objective assessment. And I get what you're
saying about the alcohol industry and its influence, but I
think that there are those in the industry that's I'm

(29:37):
totally opposed to alcohol that bring their own bias to
this argument. At times, I would love to just see
the raw data and have a totally independent and objective
assessment of where the numbers are and what's happening and
go so that we can make a decision about what
works and what doesn't, because I don't I don't think
the full prices work.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Look, we're going to take a really quick break. You
are listening to mix one O four nine's three sixty.
What is the week that was? Now with all this
new legislation that is being introduced, I mean we've got
the ram raaid legislation as well, that's set to be
introduced next week. We have got the the age of
criminal responsibility changing, We've got the changes to public drinking,
we've got the minimum mandatory sentencing when it comes to

(30:18):
assaulting frontline workers. Now, Kat, you joined me on the
show a little earlier in the week and really called
for some further scrutiny on some of the legislation. I
know that Jerry Wood, the former Independent member from many
years ago, had also been in contact with me to
sort of question whether we do need scrutiny committees back
in place to further look at some of this legislation

(30:39):
and to make sure that it's not going to have
unintended consequences. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (30:44):
I mean, look, I think that they just seen they're
therefore the purposes it's cross party government, opposition, crossband to
come together, go through things with a fine toothcomb and
make sure that the laws that we're making are going
to do what we want them to do. And I
just think that, you know, scrutiny is a good thing.
If you're going to put for a proposal and you
stand by it, then you should be okay with the

(31:05):
being scrutinized. So I think they should be brought back absolutely.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
I guess the hard part is. And you know, some
would argue that you know that the election proved that
people want.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
Some actually just going to say that the biggest scrutiny
committee that's just been is the election, and we come
out as hard and faster, we're going to reduce crime.
And we told people before the election that we're going
to do these laws about the bail, the drinking, and
look at the result of the election. So I don't
think you could get a bigger committee and bigger cross
section of people to review these laws. It's clear that
that's what territorians want. They've given us a job to

(31:37):
do and we are holding fast and we're going to
get it done. We're going to reduce crime across the territory.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, we do have a situation like our unicameral parliament
means that there's not the scrutiny that exists in other
parts of the country. Right, And it was the previous
Labor government that actually scrapped the scrutiny committees and that
was a massive backflip on what they promised to do
when they came to power, restoring integrity to government, et cetera,
et cetera. I mean, the most effective I've seen the
Northern Territory Parliament operate and a Northern Territory government. Work

(32:06):
was between two thousand and nine and twenty twelve where Henderson,
Paul Henderson, lost his majority when Alison Anderson quit and
relied on Jerry Wood, and Jerry Wood became like a
one man scrutiny committee, like you know, he was the one,
you know, And we haven't had that since. And I
think one of the issues we've had is that we
have had such strong majorities and such weak oppositions. You

(32:28):
go back to twenty sixteen and it was eighteen to two,
we're in a situation now where at sixteen to four.
I agree with Kat. I think there should be scrutiny committees.
I think that legislation, legislation needs to be scrutinized. And
I don't understand why Labor, who was so keen to
have those scrutiny committees put in in twenty sixteen, got
rid of them after twenty twenty.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Douran, what do you reckon? Do they need to be reintroduced?

Speaker 5 (32:49):
Yeah, Look, obviously, like I agree with having scrutiny committees.
When they were abandoned, that was before my time when
I was a member. No. No, well, look I wasn't
in government.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
At that time.

Speaker 5 (33:02):
That was before my time, but I've always been a
bit advocate to ensure that there is scrutiny over legislation.

Speaker 4 (33:09):
I think it's important.

Speaker 5 (33:10):
I think it's we need, you know, the public, we
need peak bodies to be able to put in submissions
to look at that legislation and look at actually what
impact that may have on a community. So I think
it's very important because, as Matt Rightley said, at the moment,
you know, we only have one house up here. We
don't have it's not a two house system, where in

(33:31):
other jurisdictions you would have to negotiate with the Senate
for example. So I think bringing back scrutiny committees is
a good thing for democracy and it will mean that
we'll get better legislation and the impact to the community
will be a lot better as well.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Jared, is it something that the government's planning on doing.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
No, Look, the territories has given us a job to do.
We're going to make the teritory safer place and we're
going to get it done.

Speaker 5 (33:56):
So I remember, I do remember when they were gone
that Leophankiara was the one, you know, throwing her hands
up in the air and saying that, you know, we
we need these scrutiny committees.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
So what's the backflip.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
There's hypocrisy all over the place. As a CLP who
cried blue murder when they were when Laby got rid
of the scrutiny committees, it's not going to bring them back.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
This Lavery got rid of the scrutiny.

Speaker 7 (34:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
But like I said, look, you do wonder though. I
do think to myself, you know, I can understand that
the government's really keen to get things moving and get
them moving quickly. I get that, and there was certainly
an election that you know, that showed that people want
to want that action. But I do wander down the track.
You know, from what we've seen under the last government,

(34:41):
we did have some real issues because there wasn't that
greater scrutiny put on different pieces of legislation, And and
I do sort of think to myself, is it something
that you know that he's going to be or could
potentially be a good thing longer term.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Well, look, it's certainly not on the table right now.
What we're doing right now is we're getting on with
the job of what territories elected us to do, which
is to make the chair if you're a safer place.
We've got four years to do this. We're going to
get it through now because the territories right now is
not a safe place. Yesterday in perhaps people getting stabbed.
You know, my wife was written with the knife at
Coward Springs, you know recently in the last week. This
is what's happening right across the territory. And we want

(35:16):
to make the Cherifiy a safer place. We're going to
do that, and we're going to get started next week
because we came out before the election and told territory
exactly what we're going to do, and now we're going
to get the job done.

Speaker 5 (35:25):
Well.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Look, earlier in the week, Cat, you'd said tongues wagging
after you had said on the show, revealed on the
show that your husband is a contractor for Impects, some
people calling it quite hypocritical. As I say, it definitely
got people talking. There's no doubt about that. Are we
in trouble when you got home it was your rash No,

(35:47):
not all.

Speaker 7 (35:47):
So first of all, a few things to clear up.

Speaker 6 (35:48):
He doesn't actually work there anymore, Okay, okay, so it
was previously.

Speaker 7 (35:51):
Also, secondly, it wasn't revealed.

Speaker 6 (35:53):
I actually spoke about it on the campaign lots, so
especially I was out door knocking, right, You're talking to people.

Speaker 7 (35:58):
From all walks of life.

Speaker 6 (35:59):
I don knocked GUS workers and other tradees and you know,
had big, real chats with them about the future of
their work and the future of the industry.

Speaker 7 (36:05):
So it's something that I'm very open about.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
So just not revealed to the media prior, I guess.

Speaker 7 (36:11):
So I hadn't really seen if the media had seen
it or not.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
But yeah, I don't think it's something you needed to
reveal to the media. I thought I thought it was
interesting though. The thing, like reading back your interview with Katie,
the thing that was curious to me was like, you say,
we want to you know, if he had a job
in if he could get a job in a different industry,
like a renewables industry, you know, that would be the goal,
et cetera, et cetera. I just don't understand the opposition

(36:34):
to middle Arm, which is essentially like trying to get
some of these green energy projects off the ground, green hydrogen,
et cetera. Like if we want to transition from some
of those jobs to some of these new industry jobs.
Wouldn't middle Arm be a good thing to help facilitate that.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (36:54):
Sure, if middle Arm actually was about renewables and sustainability.
The problem is is that they designed a gas hub
to facilitate fracking in the Bedloo and make a gas
export hub and then slack the word sustainable on it.
I mean, all the FLI documents from the initial business
case showed they literally said it was designed to facilitate
gas from the Bedloo. They're dredging the harbor to build
wharves to expook. It's not even for us to export

(37:14):
the gas overseas.

Speaker 7 (37:15):
So I'm just not buying that middle Arm is going
to do it sustainble.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Is it going to be sustainable, Jared, It's going to
be a project that will boost the terroriftory economy and
will give territory in his jobs like your partner. It's
going to be out there to be able to a
place where people can come up here at Land of
Opportunity get a job. Middle Arm is not only about
the gas, it's about the carbon captriin storage. It's about
a whole range of different things. The green hydrogen. I
think there's going to be talking about a solar farm

(37:42):
near there to get power into it. It's a big
project that's going to get the charity back on track.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
Hey, one of the questions I keep getting asked every
day just about it's about the solar tariff and when
those changes are going to be reintroduced that the COLP
government has had promised.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Well, actually, this brief come across my desk yesterday and
we're just working on exactly how we're going to bring
it back in in relation to the twelve thousand dollars
battery package to work out how many killer what's our
per battery, and we're trying to get some technical information
about that. So that's going to be sooner than later.
The work is happening. I literally read it yesterday, so

(38:22):
that'll come as soon.

Speaker 4 (38:23):
As we can.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
What do we make of that, I mean, do you
think it's a good thing?

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Well, no, I don't because the problem, the reason that
it had to be reduced in the first place, was
because the solar rooftop solar uptake was happening so quick
that it was endangering the stability of the grid. That's
why it was I know it upset a lot of
people that it was dropped from basically one to one
and cut to about a third of that overnight, So

(38:48):
it wasn't managed particularly well. But this is the issue,
like our electricity system just can't handle that kind of
solar power. It's the same reason that those three solar
farms are still sitting there basically doing almost nothing because
of the instability that it causes in our grid. And
that's why gas is such an important part but future energy.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
Main part of that program is about bringing batteries back
into these people so they can be able to have
their mini power station. I suppose you could start at
home so they can have their batteries. We could run
their home during the nighttime, the solar panels can charge
it up so you can effectively run off grid.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Well, it's going to take a long time before you
get enough battery uptake to be able to do that.
So I would imagine that the doubling of the feed
in Tariff is not.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
Only a team soon.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
Yeah, that we do that off peak time, which is
at night time and during that sort of the twilight zone.
But our main focus is on getting these batteries into
people's houses to give that grid the disability it needs
because you're right, so all the soul powers in and
goes up and down, cloud comes over and bang where
we have a power blackout.

Speaker 7 (39:49):
I just want to say that that's the idea that
somehow like it's the soul of the problem. Is the
technology exists right.

Speaker 6 (39:54):
So South Australia is just announced they're going to be
one hundred percent by twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Eight twenty with an interconnect to the news houthy where
they can they can back to.

Speaker 6 (40:03):
Talk about we have such tiny, tiny rates of solar
renewables here like we could be doing.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
So we're way over the top in relation to uptake
of solo on houses competed to the Southern study.

Speaker 4 (40:13):
We're all over the top.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
I was ready yesterday that we've got more solo on
roots and houses because we get so much good.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
Well, the uptake with the one to one happened too
quickly and that's.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
What caused the problem.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
That's why I had to stop overnight.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
Look anyway, well, look we're gonna have to take a
very quick break because we've got to pay some bills
and then when we come back, we are going to
finish off with well Luke Gosling can continuing on with
his discussion about Aldi and whether it's going to enter
the market here in the Northern Territory. More in a
few moments time, but before we wrap up for the morning,
we know that Luke Gosling is continuing his push to

(40:47):
try and bring Aldi to Darwin, hoping to meet with
the German bosses of the company after having no luck
with the Australian office. Now, he was on the show
yesterday and you know, we were trying to have a
pretty straightforward conversation about his plans. It became quite rude
and some of those simple questions asked about how he
planned to get them across the line given the tyranny

(41:09):
of distance from a warehouse and the fact that the
company has said that they've got no plans to open
in the Northern Territory. I mean, like some of it
I couldn't sort of wrap my head around. But he
said that he sought a German contact for discussions with
the German console and any trip to Germany, if it
happens to meet with them, will be self funded. We've

(41:32):
heard a lot of these discussions over the years. I mean,
who else have who else has tried to enter the
market in the Northern Territory, or we've.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
Tried to team he's needed.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
The Maya campaign, you know, we got people sitting their
little coupon to center Bernie Brooks.

Speaker 4 (41:46):
Who was the boss of Myra.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
So can we say one thing, is there an elect
coming up soon? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Like I mean, I don't I wouldn't Begrudgey's campaign, and
I think he's pushing the proverbial uphill. But I think
if you're our elected federal labor member, as part of
a labor government, try and influence the things that your
government can control. And I wrote about flight prices in

(42:13):
the paper the other day. I mean, that'd be my
number one issue if I was Luke, and you I
know he has done some stuff in that space, but
I'd be campaigning on the cost of airfares in and
out of the Northern Territory. And it wouldn't be going
to Germany to lobby some bloke who's ahead of Aliti.
I'd be going to Canberra and lobbying the Prime Minister.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Because the other part of it is like there's a
lot of local businesses that are actually pretty pissed off
with the with the government and the former you know,
Labor when they were pushing Ferraldi, who were saying, well,
hang on a sick We've got these great local businesses
that sell groceries, that sell fruit and vegetables, you know,
like we you know, support us sort of thing. And
I understand that, and you want to support those locals,

(42:52):
but I agree, like the cost of airfares is astronomical,
I mean, the cost of living in the Northern Territory
at the moment, it's quite astronomical. And there are different
levers that you would think would be able to be pulled.
I just don't know, Like I just wonder whether it's
a bit of a election. Yeah, you know, well it
happened like the like Duran, I know you weren't a minister,

(43:14):
but the Labor Party before the election as well was
you know, was saying let's try and bring Aldi to town.
And then we had Warren Ebbertt from Sentinel Group come
on the show and said, Katie, you know, it's sort
of it annoys me when really educated people are sort
of you know, making these silly arguments because the numbers
don't add up.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
I think, you know, there's polling clearly the polling's telling
politicians two things, right. It was telling before the anti election,
it was telling them crime, cost of living, and every
poll everywhere in the country at the moment is saying
cost of living is a number one issue. We're going
to a federal election. I'm sure Luke's looking at that
polling going, oh my god, what am I going to do?

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Audi yea yeah, which you understand in some ways. But yeah, anyway,
it's just interesting. I suppose. I don't know if it's
going to happen. We'll wait and see.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Well, we could all be proved wrong. We'll have to
eat humble pie and go an issue with rovelling apology.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
I never mind.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
I hope we are wrong.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yeah, same here. Well, look that's just about it for
us this morning. Thank you all so much for your time.
Jered mainly, the Deputy Chief Minister, thank you for joining
us as always.

Speaker 4 (44:15):
Thank you listeners.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Matt Cunningham from Sky News, thank you so much for
your time. Thanks Katie the Member for Nightcliff for the
Greens cat Bag Damara, thank you for your time. And
Duran Young, the Deputy Opposition Leader and member for Daily,
thank you for your time.

Speaker 5 (44:27):
Thank you Katie and thank you to your listeners,