The Week That Was - 11th April 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is time for the week that was, and in
the studio with us this morning. We've got the head
of news at the NT News, Gary Shipway, good morning,
good morning, Good to have you in the studio. We
have got for the COLP. We've got the Minister for
Families and various other portfolios, Asian relations and trade. There's business,

(00:20):
there's a lot of them. Robin Carl, good morning, you've
got a few in there.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Good morning, Katie, and good morning to everyone out there
on this really close to a dry season, thought the same,
very exciting. I went for a little run and I was.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Like, oh, I don't want to say it feels like
the dry season. I don't want to get too excited
to any drag I have, So let's say. I don't know,
maybe we're calling it too early, but look, we were
due to have Duran Young on the show as well
for the labor Party. Unfortunately there has been a death
in the family, so he won't be here this morning.
So it's just the three of us and there is

(00:56):
no shortage of things to talk about with the Prime
Minister and the alban Easy this morning arriving, well, he
may have arrived yesterday afternoon didy Garay. Yep, so he
is here and you are indeed reporting in the paper
today that he's arrived in town to unveil Labour's Health
and Aged Care plan for the territory and include sixty
million dollars to be used in partnership with an aged

(01:18):
care provider to support the delivery of a residential care
home for the Darwin region. Now, the health and age
Care plan also includes an upgraded Medicare mental health center
in Alice Springs and Headspace plus and a youth specialist
care center in Darwin, as well as the fact that
he's reaffirming his pledge of ten point one million dollars

(01:42):
to care Flight to purchase a plane to support medical
evacuations and transportation in the top end. Now, on the
face of it, a great announcement, but my mind got
ticking over as I was reading this, and I thought,
hang on a second. Didn't we have an EI and
expression of interest for sixty new age care beads plus
twelve specialists dementia care beds last year or.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
The year before.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
I think it was the year before actually, so there
was that expression of interest process. Anyway, did a bit
of digging and sure enough we did have that EI
process and we're unable to find a provider.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah, I think that's the issues. When I wrote that story,
and it was very carefully. The wording was very careful
in a way it was presented in terms of the
sixty million on the table. It doesn't say who's going
to be put the rest of that money in, so
there's an unknown there. It's always good to know that,
you know there's money available for age care facilities because
because goodness knows, we need that here. But yeah, it's

(02:40):
there's a lot of unanswered parts of it. Good announcement,
but there's a butt with it. You know who's going
to put the rest of the money in?

Speaker 2 (02:51):
You would know? Katie Health is very dear to my heart,
having spent a long time in the territory in that sector,
and I can remember having conversations around this. I was
still working at the Parmesan super Clinic, around people saying, oh,
this money is on the table, what do you think?
What does it look like. There's no question that we
are lacking in aged care facilities and services in the

(03:11):
Northern Territory. It's something that has been a problem and
a challenge for a good two three decades, so anything
that we can do in that space is fantastic. But
this isn't a new announcement. This is a rehash of
an announcement where they couldn't get anyone on board previously,
and so it would have been far more interesting if

(03:33):
there'd been an announcement about and we've identified someone and
you've touched on a.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Very good point in the sense that you know, we
absolutely need these age care beads. We absolutely need specialists
dementia care beads as well. We've got a situation and
we have for a number of years where my understanding
is that certainly previously we had about sixty patients in
Royal Darwin Hospital that were and our age care patients

(03:59):
that are taking up beds that obviously they need, but
it's not ideal for them. It is not a good
situation for an age care patient to be in a
regular ward at Royal Darwin Hospital rather than a specialist
facility which actually accommodates for people who are older and
that need that care.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah, I agree, and I think what would have been
nice to have with that announcement is and we've been
in discussions with X number of people who are interested
in building this facility. We get none of that.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, And I think the other thing is too And
this often falls off the radar when announcements are made
at a federal level. They never fully fund anything. So
this particular facility, the estimate is it would be about
one hundred and twenty million, and so there would be
an expectation that the Northern Territory would come up with
the other sixty. So it's all well and good to say, oh,

(04:49):
we're going to give you this, but it's a shortfall.
It's not fully funded. They're making it sound like they're
going to put the funding forward to get a facility
open and running, but that's simply not the case work.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
From the Northern Territory government's perspective. Would it be a
situation where they fund the facility and then the Northern
Territory government needs to come up with the operational funding.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Well, the advice I've had is that the actual doing
the facility is going to be one hundred and twenty
so we would have to come up with money to
contribute to the creation of the facility as well. And
the standard run of the meal process in these federally
funded initiatives is that operational funding does not come with it,
and that was the problem. You'll probably remember when the

(05:30):
Parliament's Hospital was originally built and put forward as a proposal.
There was money to build the facility, there was no
money for operational costs.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yeah, someone's got to pay run the facility. So you know,
it's no point just building it and not factoring in
the running costs. And that's what businesses have to do.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah. Well, and look, I mean the thing is, I
think you'd be hard pressed to find people that are
against there being an age care facility or additional beads
for age care patients in the Northern Territory. We know
that we desperately need it. We desperately need money as well.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
The other thing too, is that, as with the disability sector,
age care is a federal government responsibility. So if you're
going to put a service in play, fund the whole service,
make sure you put all the money in.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah. Well, look, it's not the only thing that's up
for discussion this week. As the federal election rolls closer
and closer, the daw and Port goodness me, every time
an election rolls around it seems to become an issue again.
But Obviously our relationship with China has changed somewhat in
recent years. And we know that the Federal Coalition promised
to return the dah And Port to an Australian Government

(06:35):
approved operator if it wins the May election. The party
says that it's going to appoint a specialist commercial advisor
to work with the Northern Territory Government and the department
officials to provide advice and engage with potential new operators.
Now the Prime Minister, meanwhile, Anthony Albanesi, is saying that
he's going to enter into negotiations to acquire the lease

(06:57):
from land Bridge, adding that's been already happening informally.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Can I just say here, back in twenty and thirteen,
and this is probably something hasn't been touched on, the
Northern Territory Infrastructure Minister went to canber to meet with
the Labour's Federal Infrastructure minister.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Was that styles it and the.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
Federal Infrastructure Minister was Anthony Alberanzi, now he had the
Northern Territory government went down there to seek funding to
improve the port. The port was struggling. They wanted to
improve the facilities, so they were looking for federal funding
to help keep it going and keep it sustainable. So
there was an opportunity back in twenty and thirteen for

(07:43):
Anthony Albernesi, as the Federal Infrastructure Minister, to actually come
to the table and provide funding. He wasn't interested. He said, no,
we're not interested in putting any money into the port.
Would be a lot cheaper then to do that than
to go down the path we're now going down. And
after that meeting it went back to the Mordern Territory
Cabinet and that's when they decided to that week there

(08:05):
was no local takers. That's when they went to the
international market. But as I saying, man, if it happened
back in twenty thirteen, we wouldn't be discussing this right now.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, I'm pretty sure Matt Cunningham may be asked about
this at the press conference this morning as well s
the Prime Minister whether he'd met with the former minister
Peter Styles back in twenty thirteen. Now, my understanding is
that the response was something along the lines of him
not remembering the minister. Well, yeah, and you know, I
just think to myself, if we're going to be having

(08:35):
this discussion around the port when a federal election rolls in, Well,
we've got to be entirely honest about it, and you
spot on.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
You know, it was at a time where.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
The government of the day, the Northern Territory government of
the day, was looking for further investment, was looking for
some assistance from the federal government and weren't able to
get it.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
The fact was, at that.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Time Territorians were wild, they were ropable about the fact
that the port had been leased. I remember myself and
Pete Davies obviously working back in the old studio taking
call upon call upon call of people just being really
riled up about the fact that the port had been
leased to a Chinese company for ninety nine years. We

(09:17):
were assured at that time that you know, it would
be that there would be a situation where, if needed,
or if required, the lease would be able to come
back into Northern Territory hands or into Australian hands. I
guess what I can see is happening now is you've
got this argie bargie with you know, both sides of
federal politics where they're saying, all right, we want these
lease to go back into Australian hands. But the labor

(09:40):
party is sort of saying that you know that they're
wondering or they're wanting to see whether there's been a
breach of the lease. In any way, it doesn't appear
to me as though there's been a breach of the lease.
So then you go, all right, well, who's prepared to
come to the party to actually stump up some funds
to get this port back if that's what needs to happen.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Look, and I think the thing that we really need
to be focusing on here is that port facility is
critical for the Northern Territori's progress going forward. So every
business that I talk to, whether it's here in the
territory or overseas where we've been engaging with Indonesian businesses
and government and we've been to Singapore just recently, that

(10:24):
connectivity and that port capacity is one of the attractive
features about the Northern Territory. The ports on the East
and the West coast are at capacity in many circumstances.
So really what we need to be focusing on is
the best outcome for the territory is a really good
functioning port. And at this moment in time, we have that,
we've had an investment, they've upgraded it. It's working effectively,

(10:47):
it's very efficient. I wasn't involved obviously back in the
day when the changes were made, but federal government or
both of both persuasions had plenty of opportunity to input
into that process, had plenty of opportunities since then. And
at the end of the day, until the election's over,
how we're going to really know what's really going to
be on the table. And I think that what we

(11:08):
need to be focusing on is making sure that the
territory is in a position to progress its economic agenda.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Absolutely, I mean you know that it's become a pawn
in the election, and with any election. Once election's done
and dusted.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Will who knows anything.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
It's easy to walk away from a commitment say all
things have changed. Yeah hard look at it now. We've
decided that it's nothing to see here, so just leave
it the way it is.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, Look, it's going to be an interesting one. We'll
keep it close on it. We will take a quick
break if you have just joined US cities the week
that wasn't in the studio with us this morning, we've
got Gary Shipway from the NT News. Minister Robin Carl
Now in a terrible situation. Earlier in the week in
Alice Springs, a Danish tourist was brutally attacked in broad daylight.

(11:53):
It's alleged the twenty two year old well a twenty
two year old man, punch the female visitor in the faith,
snocking her unconscious before stomping on her head on South
Terrace on Tuesday afternoon. Witnesses came to the woman's aid
before she was taken to the Ala Springs Hospital for
treatment by Saint John. The twenty two year old man

(12:14):
was arrested a short time later, charged with aggravated assault.
The Northern Territory Police as well as the Northern Territory
Government condemned the attack, deeming it disturbing and borrant unprovoked attack.
The victim telling news Corp that she wants to leave
town as soon as possible. Gary, I believe she's now left.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Yeah, she was obviously looking who she was supposed to
go to, Lara, But yeah, I mean that was a
horrific incident. You know, four o'clock in ol Springs. I
lived in l Springs and rents and trailer and advocate
down there for four years, and that time of the
day would have been beautiful. Yeah, you know, and we
have a lot of people around at that time of
the day, so you know, everyone would not have expected

(12:57):
anything like that happened broad daylight, and thank goodness, there
was an indigenous couple going past in the car. They
saw what was going on, they leapt out, bought that
assault to an end. That sult to an end, so
pretty traumatic. And there's another incident down there that is
equally concerning, and there's a and this was only captured

(13:18):
on CCTV after a lot of blood was found on
the footpath of the night before, and there's a missing
woman down there who had been on the CCTV shows
her being stabbed, then knocked on, conscious and then dragged
off into the darkness. Now that woman who is believed
to sustain serious stab wounds and she hasn't presented to
the hospital or anywhere for medical attention, so there's a

(13:38):
fair deal of concern about her welfare as well.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
So did that happen Gary?

Speaker 3 (13:42):
That was on Tuesday? I believe that was there, and
then the following day was the tourist instance. So there's
a couple of incidents down there and it really does
damage the town, which at its best is a really
beautiful town, a really really beautiful town. But then it's worse.
It's just, you know, it's like it's still a phrase
from Queensland as a generation of untouchables out there who

(14:04):
had just lost all respect for them.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
They can do it they want. And I think you've
hit on it really well there, Gary. I think the
challenge we've got is that for more than a decade now,
we've had a situation where there hasn't been a consequence
for bad behavior. And we all know that if you
allow bad behavior to continue, then there's no signal that
we're going to intervene, and this is the consequence that

(14:28):
you get. So we've got a double front that we're
fighting this battle on. We've got the issue of dealing
with the outcomes of not having consequences in place, and
then we've got the battle to make sure that this
next generation of kids coming through understands that violence is
not the answer. And these two attacks are absolutely abhorrent

(14:48):
and absolutely something that cannot be tolerated, and it comes
at a time where Alice Springs is working really hard
to show the world that it's a place of safety,
place to come and the reality is terrible things happen everywhere.
I think when you have a small community, it's just
so much more obvious and it's so much harder to combat.

(15:11):
So my absolute thoughts go out to the young tourist
and hopefully she recovers and can it's for this well.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
And the thing is, you know, the impact then on
tourism when you've got a twenty like you've got this
young women being brutally attacked in broad daylight, where she's
had her head stomped on, you know, like the ramifications
of that in so many ways, not only to her
as an individual, but to the broader community. Like I

(15:41):
just think if I was a tourism operator down there,
I'd be heartbroken when things like this happen, because you go,
you do so much to build your reputation, You work
so bloody hard to run a good business, and then
you've got some I don't even know how to describe
the offender, somebody who then goes and thinks that it's

(16:02):
okay to brutally attack a young woman on the street
walking on her own. It doesn't get much more cowardly than.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
That, it doesn't.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
And then the thing about it is the long term
impact that's going to have on that person. You know,
that for them is a bit like a life sentence,
no matter what the victim, and too often the victim's
been forgotten. I mean, there's more concern about, you know,
the welfare of the perpetrator and their their future life
prospects as opposed to the victim and their future life prospects.

(16:35):
So I think that's when that's where the community's at.
They want justice for the victim, they want consequences, they
want action. It government's credit, they've given the tools to
the judiciary to implement. The judiciary has got to use
those tools and they've got to use them as they're
intended to be used so that there is actual justice

(16:56):
for them.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
And I understand the frustration of the community when we
have put those tools in place and we've given the
capacity to the courts to actually take a response that
meets community expectation. And Minister Maylee was speaking earlier this
week about if what we've done to this point is
not sufficient to send and drive through the message of
what the community expectation is, if we need to do

(17:19):
more in that space, we will, because at the end
of the day, the only thing that is critical is
the safety of our community and for people to be
able to know you should be able to walk down
the street at midnight if you want to. That should
not be something that you have to think about, let
alone walking down the street in the middle of the afternoon. So, yes,
we've got there's a lot of work to do. We've

(17:40):
started that journey and we will continue to push through.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Well. Look, unfortunately it's not the only terrible situation that
we've seen over the last sort of seven to ten days.
We also know that seventy one year old Trevor Now,
he was obviously in his own home, Trevor Mills, trev Miller,
I should say sorry, in his own home out in
Palmerston when he was allegedly attacked with a machete in

(18:06):
a violent home invasion. Now, two boys aged thirteen and
fourteen allegedly broke into that Woodrop home, they attacked him
and then stole his car. This was last Wednesday, now,
the day after the member for Blaine, Matthew Curl joined
us on the show. He'd been to see Trevor Miller
in hospital and said that he'd suffered serious injuries. He

(18:27):
had cuts on his arms and his legs, some of
those down.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
To the bone.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
It's hard to even comprehend that level of injury. Now,
yesterday we caught up with Palmerston counselor Danny Everly and
she had also gone out or she'd had an update
on Trevor and said that it is going to be
a very long road to recovery for him.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
Which I said earlier. Yeah, this man's life seventy one
years old, well, all accounts, a very lovely gentlemen were
highly regarded. What's his life going to be like from
this point on? You know what impact is that going
to have on him going forward? You know, at as
seventy years old, you know it must be a horrible
thing to have to face going home.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
That's exactly right. You just think, like how frightening to
even go back into your own home.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
And you've been you know, fit.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
And healthy presumably throughout the majority of your life. You're
then in your seventies when you're potentially feeling slightly vulnerable
because you maybe don't yield the same level of strength
that you did when you're in your forties or your fifties,
and then to have something like this happen and to
feel you know, like I don't even know how you feel.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
And again, you have to look at this appears to
be a failure of the justice system. We've put very
clear position forward, We've put Declan's law in place, We've
said very clearly this is the community expectation, and still
we have offenders who are being bailed.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Robin also yesterday Jered mainly joined me on the show
and said that Corrections had opposed the plan for this
fourteen year old, this young person who already had who
was already on bail, had opposed that young person going
into a like a supervised facility. They didn't feel it

(20:18):
was appropriate. Yet the judge deemed that that was appropriate.
And then this young person has allegedly committed the crimes
that they've committed while on bail. I mean that that
is that is, you know, making people's blood boil.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
It's also not isolated. I've had a couple of situations
in my role with Children's and families because, as people know,
if children are in care, then the Children's in Families
department plays a role in where these kids come up
into the court system. Where we have categorically said a
young person should not be bailed because of the nature

(20:58):
of the incident, the alleged incident, and the nature of
the support that they require, and the entry families have
said that at different times at different times, and we've
been in situations where we have been required to try
and identify a place for someone to be bailed to,
even though the advice has been we don't think that
this is appropriate. So it's a real battle on a

(21:19):
day sometimes it feels like on a daily basis to
actually line up community expectation, safety of the community, and
the approach of the court.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
So what you're saying is there's been situations where your
own department, the Department of Territory Families have opposed or
had said, we do not think it's a good idea
for a young person to come out of a correctional
facility into let's say, supported accommodation or you know, into
the care of somebody that's right, Yet the courts have

(21:51):
deemed that it is appropriate.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
It's required. So it's a challenge. There is a disconnect
in the system and it comes back to how many
times do you try, in a particular circumstance to cushion
the community from a potential incident where you go, Actually,
we need to keep this young person in a safe,

(22:14):
contained environment so that we can monitor them, so that
we can actually look to see what we can do
in the longer term, as opposed to then trying to
because one of the things I think most people don't
realize is that child in care, we can't detain them,
we can't secure them. We can't if there's a child
at risk and it's in care. And one of the

(22:35):
things we've seen happen repeatedly over the past few years
is these kids take off because that's what they do,
and we can't forcibly keep them in those care situations.
So it's really something that we need to look at,
to look at whether we have an opportunity for these
high risk kids to have a more solid infrastructure around

(22:58):
them that makes it possible to keep them safe where
they're a threat. You know, they have a risk to
themselves which is often well and a risk to the community.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
And I like you just think to yourself, how is
it possible that someone's on bail and is able to,
you know, commit such a horrendous offense.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
And it's all too common story of people repeat offenders
have been put on out on bail and no consideration. Well,
deemed not to be a risk community and within a
short period of time they've re offended again. You know
you've seen it. I mean just small stuff like the
sports store at what happened with their young kids, crocodiles

(23:39):
the other way, bloke breaks in. He's been done it
multiple times and who knows. They we'll point to it again,
but you know it's just too often.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
We well, so I know that it's been flagged with
me by both the Chief Minister and also the Minister
for Corrections Jared Mayley, saying that there is going to
be a review of the Youth Justice Act. How deep
is that going to go and how soon can we
expect any changes, Robin and what might they be?

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Well, the reviews underway and there is an urgency to it.
So there are some basic things. For example, we've talked
about previously Katie, where we want to be able to
if we divert someone into a program that they have
to do that currently we can't enforce it. So that's
one of the very basic things that will change. But
it's also around how do we create an environment where

(24:27):
these young people who are a risk to the community
and a risk to themselves where we can actually have
a more secure environment. So the supported bail facilities, for example,
are not locked down. So it's a supported bail facility
where somebody doesn't have somewhere else to go. They're usually

(24:49):
monitored with an ankle monitor, so there are people there
here to support them, but they can't be physically restrained.
So if you've got someone who's at risk or poses
a risk to the community and you do feel that
detention in a watchhouse or detention in prison is not appropriate,
then you do actually need to have a little bit
more capacity to make sure that you can control where

(25:11):
they go and what they do. And that's certainly being
looked at. And so what might that look like.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
I mean, could it be another facility where young people
can go if there's sort of you know, maybe in
that in between sort of gray area.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
I guess I certainly think that's something that we are exploring.
And there are facilities like that in other states in Australia,
and there's a couple that I'm planning to go and
visit to see how they've done it, what their legislation
looks like, particularly those high risk kids who have high
needs and have a real challenge in integrating into what
we would consider appropriate behavior in the community. We need

(25:45):
to look after them as well, we need to protect
them and protect the community. So we really do need
to look at those facilities, and it's something that's very
high on my agenda.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
And look, I'm very aware that there has to be
that separation of powers of course between you know, ministers
and and the judiciary and the court processes. But are
we in a situation here where some elements of that
Youth Justice Act simply make it too easy for a
judge to be able to determine that somebody doesn't need
to spend any time in a correctional facility or doesn't

(26:18):
actually need to have a consequence to their action.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Well, I think the fact that we're seeing what we
would deem to be young alleged defenders who have histories
of violent offenses still being granted bail in spite of
the fact that we have actually passed Declan's Law, then yeah,
I think we do need to have a stronger look
at that, and perhaps we do have to be a
little more firm in what the options are in that space.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.
We're going to take a really quick break. When we
come back, I am keen to sort of continue this
discussion somewhat, but talk about the fact that a Northern
Territory Supreme Court judge suspended the four year sentence of
a woman who pleaded guilt to causing serious harm to
a sixteen year old girl citing in humane conditions at

(27:06):
the Alice Springs Watchhouse. You are listening to three sixty
if you've just joined us this morning. We've got Minister
Robin carl and head of News at the NT News,
Gary Shipway in the studio with us. Now. A story
on the ABC earlier in the week, and Northern Territory
Supreme Court judge suspended the four year sentence of a
woman who pleaded guilty to causing serious harm to a

(27:28):
sixteen year old girl citing inhumane conditions at the Alice
Springs Watchhouse. Now. According to the report, the offender was
one of eleven people in March last year who chased
the teenager down and assaulted her, pulling the girl down
by the hair, stamping and kicking her face and body.

(27:49):
Co offenders then stripped the girl of her clothes before
the offender, who was eighteen at the time, dragged her
naked down a street as others continued to kick her.
In her sentencing remarks last month, Justice Judith Kelly labeled
the offender's behavior as a very serious offense and said

(28:09):
even without a victim impact statement, it was clear the
pain and the fear of the girl, who was only
sixteen years old, must have experienced. Justice Kelly also noted
the victim presented to hospital after the incident with a
collapsed lung and later needed a chess strain. Now, despite
the seriousness of the offense, it's reported that Justice Kelly

(28:31):
said she would take into account the offender's early guilty
plea and the very very appalling conditions she suffered while
reminded at the Alice Springs Watchhouse for twenty two days
in January. Justice Kelly said she accepted that the watchhouse
was overcrowded with at times nearly twenty women in a cell,

(28:53):
that there were only two toilets available that became blocked,
and the main source of water was a bubbler which
was on top of a toilet that often filled with vomit.
Now I'm keen to get your thoughts on this situation.
I mean, is that in line with the expectations. Do
you think of the community that that sentence is suspended

(29:17):
due to what the judge has deemed inhumane conditions at
the Allice Springs Watchhouse.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Absolutely not. It's absolutely not in line with community expectations.
So let's just put it in context. A sixteen year
old girl is violently assaulted by eleven people, of which
this person was found to be one, sentenced to four
years for that crime, and then suspended because she spent

(29:45):
twenty two days in a watchhouse where the justice felt
that the conditions were a born Now. I don't know
what they were like, I wasn't there, but twenty two
days of undiscomfort somehow equates to suspect a four year sentence.
I think the community will absolutely say that defies logic,

(30:05):
and that young person who was assaulted has a lifetime
of horrendous experience to live with forever. She's had a
life sentence as a result of that assault, and for
twenty two days of discomfort can somehow equate to a
four year sentence, I find that astonishing.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, our listeners were not buying it, like, they were
not happy with it. They were not feeling as though
it was in line with the community's expectations.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
I guess the problem that.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
We've got here at the moment is our correctional facilities
are full, like they're overfull, so our watch houses are
obviously jam packed at different times with prisoners. The thing
that I really do not want to see as a
territorian is other situations where somebody who should be who's
actually sentenced to, you know, a period of jail time

(30:59):
not going to jail because a judge feels as though
the time that they've spent in a watch house.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
And there are two different facilities here. There's a watchhouse,
which is a police operated facility which is intended to
someone is arrested, alleged to have committed an offense. They're
held in the watchhouse until such times as there can
be a hearing, whether it be bailed, whether they won't
be bailed, whatever the situation is. And then there are

(31:27):
the prison systems which are under the control of corrections.
Two entirely different facilities, two entirely different situations. So even
how you can equate one to the other also is
a little difficult to comprehend. So yes, we've got a
situation currently in the territory where we do have a
high number of prisoners in the system. There's a reason

(31:50):
for that. There are people out there continuing to break
the law. There are people out there who are continuing
to place our community at risk, and our community has
said this is not okay, and we have responded as
a government to that.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Robin, do you think that you've got a situation that
the Northern Territory government's got a situation at the moment
where you know, some within the judicial you know, like
some within that system are pushing back on the governments,
you know, on your tough on crime rhetoric.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
The first thing is there absolutely has to be a
separation between government and the judicial system. That's fundamental to democracy.
You have to have that check and balance in place.
But clearly there is a differential between the government's response
to community demand and the judicial response to what they

(32:45):
believe they should be doing. The challenge is that they
are continuing to do what they've done for the past decade,
which we have seen and said repeatedly is not well.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
The community has seen and said repeatedly that it's not working,
and people voted that way at the last election. And
even now as these different situations arise, you know, people
are like I get on air and I don't say, oh,
this is my opinion and everybody else needs to agree
with it. I asked the question. People are going, no, Katie,
it's not in line with our expectations.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
And the reality is that a judicial system should be
reflective of the community need and the community needs to
be safe, and that is not happening.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
In this case. You know, with the inhuman conditions was
used as a means to justify the person being released. Well,
what about the inhumane treatment of the victim? I mean,
what happened. And I don't know if anyone saw that video,
but it was Australian had it, and I did see
that video and it was horrific what happened with that
young person. And it was vicious, it was violent, and

(33:53):
it was inhumane, but totally inhumane.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
I can't think of anything more degrading than being strip
naked and dragged on the street while I'm kicked.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
And you certainly come back here twenty two days in
a cell with and I don't know, I'll be honest,
I don't know how the size of the cells, but
sufficient to put twenty people, allegedly twenty people in there.
That compared to being dragged naked down the street being
kicked by eleven people, there's no equate there at all.
The treatment of that young person far out ways. Spending

(34:23):
twenty two days in a room with a few more
people than you might like to have in the room
with you.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
Yeah, I just say, you know, it's sorry, you know,
not enough to focus on the victim. And look, I
understand that conditions can be difficult in our springs, but
you know, at the end of the day, what happened
to that person was in humane.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, look, we're going to take a really quick break.
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
It is the week that was.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
You are listening to the week that wasn't. In the
studio with us this morning, we have got Robin Carl
and Gary Shipway. Now, in some news that has come
through in the paper, in the inter news this morning,
it's being reported that the government's axed a critical domestic
violence advisory body, despite warnings that a lack of coordination
would only worsen the epidemic of abuse in the Northern Territory.

(35:17):
So yesterday Robin, you'd confirm that you'd dismantled the Domestic
Family and Sexual Violence Advisory Forum, a consultation body established
under the Northern Territory's ten year Domestic Family Services Violence
Reduction Strategy. For the past six years, that forum has
allowed frontline sector workers, peak bodies, and legal, medical and

(35:41):
social services experts to work directly with government departments. According
to this report, I mean, what exactly has it done
over those six years and do you feel it's been effective?

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Well, I think in any situation, you start the process
with consulting, with people getting their advice, looking at what
they think should happen. The development out of that group
was the Action Plans one and two under the strategic framework.
We've seen the result of that work over the past decade,
and I think most people would agree that something needs

(36:16):
to change. So what we're doing is reframing how we
involve those groups. And one thing that I've come to
see very clearly is that we have groups who work
on the prevention side of things who often feel like
they're not high on the agenda because there's so much
to deal with in terms of what's happened and the
reactive nature of this space, and we have to deal

(36:38):
with that as well, so we will. I was very
keen to elevate the Indigenous Advisory Forum. I've had a
couple of discussions with them. They are critical in dealing
with the high numbers of domestic violence victims who are Aboriginal.
I think we need Aboriginal solutions in that, we need

(37:00):
community leaders in that space, and so there'll be an
evolution of that group that will invite other people to
feed into that forum, as opposed to that forum feeding
into the broader forum. So they take a lead in
that because we're told regularly you need to be listening
to Aboriginal people on this issue. So I'm listening, and

(37:21):
I think they do some great work, and they've been
very quietly working in the background and delivering services on
the ground. And then there'll be a broader advisory opportunity
where I'll be able to have a group of people
where we have specific issues where we need expert advice,
and then we'rein the department department intersection. There will be

(37:44):
another group that will be formed there. So we're not
just going to have a talk fest. And I'm not
dismissing or diminishing the work that was done by that
advisory Forum. I think they've laid the groundwork very nicely
for the strategic framework and we're now in the process
developing the next step in that framework beyond the action
plan too, which expirees in June twenty twenty five. And

(38:06):
what we actually want to see is action, not talk.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
So what will be the process for the group that
you'll be have overarching responsibility for Where where will they
be coming from?

Speaker 2 (38:18):
They'll come from across the sector. There's a lot of
work being done that we don't actually see very much of.
There's some people very quietly working in the background who
I think we need to elevate in the space because
they're actually getting results and seeing very I'm seeing a
really clear movement within some communities of a drawing together

(38:39):
of both their men and their women, which I don't
think we talk about often enough. There's a very clear
message coming through that we can't just have women's business
and men's business in this space anymore. They have to
start working together, which I think is a fantastic evolution
in that space. So we'll be the people that I've
met with and consulted with over the past six months,
they're all sorry to tell you guys, you're all in

(39:01):
a database. You're all on my list of people to
involve in this space, and I think that they have
such amazing input to put into this where we can
actually create programs that deliver outcomes and focus on outcomes.
I was really disappointed recently to see a report into
men's behavior programs and the evaluation was on the process

(39:22):
of the program. It wasn't on the outcomes of the program.
And process is not going to give us the outcomes.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
And so do you, I mean, do you feel as
though we've just been leaving things status quo in the
domestic family violence sector for too long and that there
needs to be some changes in order to see some
different you know, some different outcomes.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
I think, first and foremost frontline workers are doing an
amazing job. They're working in a really, really difficult environment
and they feel they really need to be supported, and
they absolutely have my support, and we will do whatever
we can to help make their job as progress and
as straightforward as we can so they can deliver their services.
But yes, we can see from the increase in domestic

(40:06):
violence incidences. We talked about that terrible situation in Alice
Springs where we still don't know where that potential victim is,
and you know, we put a call out to everybody
in that area to keep an eye out for her.
We're seeing this repeated offending, this repeated assaults occurring. We're
not making a shift in that space. So we clearly

(40:28):
have to do something differently and we have to approach
it in a different way. And sometimes that means that
you have to put to one side what's been in
place and create a new environment so that you can
get a different result. You can't get a different result
if you keep doing things the same way. Well, look
we're going to have to wrap up.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
It is almost ten o'clock, so it's been wonderful to
have you both in the studio with us this morning
discussing the issues of the week. Minister Robin Carl, Minister
for Domestic Family and Sexual Violence as well as Business
Asian Relation and Trade, thank you so much for your
time today. Gary Shipway, the head of News that the
Northern Territory News. Great to have you in the studio.

(41:08):
Thank you both so much for your time