The Week That Was - 14th March 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is time for the week that was, and we
have got an action packed morning lined up for you
this morning. Joining us in the studio is the Speaker
of the Northern Territories Legislative Assembly. She's also the Independent
member for Ara Lewin. Robin Lamley, good morning, Good morning Katie.
Lovely to have you on the show. And we have
also got the Minister for Children and Families and various

(00:22):
other portfolios. Robin Carl good morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Good morning Katie, and good morning everybody out there.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
We've got Matt Cunningham from Sky News, Good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Mats, morning Katie.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
And on the line from Catherine this morning, the Opposition
leader Selena Rubo, Good morning to you.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Good morning Katie, Good morning to you listeners. Big shout
out to running Katown this morning.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Good to have you on the show. And I'll tell
you what it's been a busy week. We began the
week with the Chief Minister saying it was clear the
Police Commissioner Michael Murphy apm's position was untenable, confirming that
he'd lost the confidence of the government. The Chief Minister
gave the commission the opportunity to resign and asked him
to go and leave effective immediately, also saying that she'd

(01:06):
begun the process to terminate the appointment of the Police Commissioner.
Now the process requires natural justice to Michael Murphy, she
said at the time, and involves Cabinet executive counsel and
advice to the administrator on termination. The NT News now
reporting that Michael Murphy has secured the services of a

(01:27):
top Australian lawyer, Morris Blackburn principal lawyer Josh Bornstein. I
believe is how you pronounce it now, a Morics Blackburn spokesperson,
confirming to the paper that mister Murphy had retained mister Borstein,
a reputed employment lawyer with one of the country's largest
non criminal law firms. I mean, is this an indication

(01:51):
that this could get a little bit messy?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yes, I think.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
There's a one leg in duck swim in a circle.

Speaker 5 (02:02):
Yes, this was bound to happen. I think that the
precedent's been set by former distinguished people public servants. Jamie
Chalker was one. He sought legal counsel very quickly in
his problems with the then Chief Minister Natasha Phile. So
we're seeing history repeat itself. But Katie, I think we

(02:24):
need to make some changes in this space around high
level public servants being found to have engaged in misconduct
or corruption. I don't think that we have a tight
enough system here because if we're going down the track
of another golden handshake for the current police commissioner, no

(02:46):
one's going to be very happy about that.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Do you mean in terms of the IKIC or do
you mean in terms of the contracts in which are
being drawn up both.

Speaker 5 (02:54):
Yeah, I think it has to be a lot tighter,
I said. I spoke on the media las week about
the fact that I even think the upper echelons of
the police should be outsourced to another jurisdiction because we're
so close, we're so the separation does not exist, and
we're just seeing this the upper layers of the public service.

(03:19):
We've seen it happen with IKAK with the police. They're
undoing themselves, They're becoming involved in activities they shouldn't. So
we have to do things about it going forward.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
And I think there are issues you touched on the IKAK.
Everything the iyekack has touched basically since it began in
twenty eighteen has turned sour and there's going to be
an interesting argument an interesting legal argument in this case
because Michael Murphy's termination is based on this IKAK report

(03:56):
that no one has seen or were doing. The Chief
Minutes has seen it, but else no one else has
seen anything other than a two page public statement that
doesn't really go into the details, just you know, it's anonymized.
It says that there was I think the word is
unsatisfactory conduct, and that there was negligence and incompetence, But
we as the public don't know the details of that,

(04:18):
and so it's hard to really judge. The Chief Minister
obviously eventually took action, took action when the threat was
made to name Michael Murphy in Parliament, and then he
subsequently added himself. But you know, there's going to be
some interesting questions that happen if this legal fight goes
all away, and I think it probably won't. I think
there'll probably be a settlement before it reaches it, like we.

Speaker 5 (04:40):
Saw two years ago.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Look, I think just one thing. He hasn't been accused
of corruption, so I think we misconduct, misconduct and negligence,
So there's that. I think there's another aspect of this.
There's definitely work to be done in the IKAC space.
Territorians have paid thirty five million dollars for this agency
since its inception, which is a lot of money, and
as Matty just said, we've not seen them do anything

(05:04):
that's been proactively beneficial.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
I mean in this case. So they did their jobs.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
But they also created a situation where they dropped a
story where no one could actually give the context or
the comment. So if and you know, I find it
a little bit interesting that there was a member of
Parliament who was going to name this person under the

(05:30):
privilege of parliament, and this person being such a fierce
advocate for integrity and following the law, when we'd made
it really clear that the law didn't allow us to
say who it was publicly. So I think there's some
problems there in the whole Eyekac process. We've absolutely said
that we need to look at that and review it

(05:52):
and make sure that whatever is happening in that space
is actually working to the benefit of the territory, not
to the detriment. And quite frankly, I think all we've
seen so far is detriment to the territory around that space.
And on the Commissioner having legal advice, that's the normal
process for natural justice. I think anyone who's been an employer,

(06:13):
anyone who's worked in the HR space, that's not an
unusual step to take because as individuals we're not expert
in that space. And of course you're going to seek
some advice. So is it entitled to do. And no
decision has been major. The process will follow its course
and you know, we'll see where it lands.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
Given the issues you've outlined with the IKAK though, and
that everything it's done has been to the detriment of
the territory, how can you then rely on a report
that we haven't seen in a public statement from the
same organization to take the hugely serious step of terminating
the position of the police commissioner.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, I think the issue in that space is that
the IKAK made a statement that didn't say who the
person was, and then Commissioner said it was me. And
when you look at that person in that very senior role,
the issue here is he's taken steps in a process
that don't fit with what you would expect of somebody

(07:12):
at that level. So that's where the confidence has been lost.
Because the person at the head of every agency is
the person who sets the standard for the agency. He
has the opportunity to provide a response on that. He's
going to give us, you know, his side of how
things were. I haven't seen the report. That's not something
I'm privy to. You know, we've only seen what everybody

(07:33):
else says.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
So if he's.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
Given the opportunity to give his side, are you suggesting
or indicating that the government's confidence that's been lost might
potentially be restored.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
What I'm saying is that everybody deserves the right of replying.
He's been given that right of reply, and you know
you've just said yourself, no one's seen the detail of
the report.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
Well, I presume the Chief Minister has I presume that
the report went to the Chief Minister and who's also
the Police minister.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
So I think natural justice has to be served. Everybody
is entitled to that, and we don't know what's going
to come.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
Those natural justice come before the termination.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, well, what we've said is there's a process that
will be followed and the decision will be made once
the process is complete.

Speaker 5 (08:12):
But the press release that came out set out what
the allegations were, what the findings were, not not in
any great detail, but he he they painted a picture
of him engaging in misconduct. It was a very straightforward
case on the surface. None of us have read the

(08:35):
report apart from the Chief Minister, but it was enough
for him to be forced to name himself and it
was enough for the police, the Minister for Police is
the Chief Minister to ask for his resignation. So, although
natural justice is something that we all should be provided

(08:56):
or there's a little bit more to it than what
you're sort of suggesting, Robin, I think we're a little
bit further down the track than keeping an open mind
with this. He's done something wrong. The IKAK has stated that,
the Chief Minister has basically acknowledged that, and he's acknowledged

(09:16):
that by naming himself and lawyering us.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Well, I do want to just tead across to Selena Rubo. Selena,
during the week, I mean, you had really questioned the
Chief Minister's leadership on this situation. Where do you stand
now that she's announced the review into the executive.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah, O, Katie, Let's be clear, the IKAK has done
its job in this situation. It's outlined those areas of
concern publicly in the summary report that as Matt has said,
all that we've been privy to in the public domain.
But it's also created the very clear path I think

(09:53):
to show the leadership of the Chief Minister has been
dismal in this respect. There's been nothing front footed from
the Chief Minister on this particular high public matter interest area,
and we've seen nothing but either backpedaling or a response,
a reactive response when the pressure has mounted from the community,
from the media on the Chief Minister, as we know

(10:16):
is also the Police Minister lif Nokiaio. So we've seen
nothing to show territoriens that this has been a serious issue.
I mean, at first she basically fobbed it off and
tried to say nothing to see here, and then again
that pressure has mounted and then bit by bit it's unraveled.
So I think that's been a very clear outcome to
show well, I think that lack accurate and leadership. Well,

(10:39):
we've got soliday for the last twelve days.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
We've got a situation where the Kak legislation says you
cannot name the person.

Speaker 3 (10:47):
So just one that robin. Section fifty five of the
Ikak legislation says the Ikak cannot name individuals other than members.

Speaker 5 (10:55):
Of the Legislati believe said that the Chief Minister can't
name them, and we've.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Been asking for that Solicitor General advice that the Chief
Minister says she received to legally see if there are
gaps and of course to understand what there.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Are meditation we're going.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
We have never seen that legislation. Accuse me, that legal
advice on the legislation that Chief Minister has been privy to,
and we said, well, let's see it so we can
understand more and then if there are improvements to the IKAK,
they're the areas that we know the cost.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
I do think it's I do think there needs to
be a really clear line here as to whether a
public servant can or cannot be named at a certain level,
or you know, there needs to be some clear directive
or some clear, I don't know, clear guidelines. Because have
we been in a situation where a Chief Minister came

(11:48):
out and named somebody, Well, she'd be damned if she
did that. Then if you flounder and don't take action,
you know, the public isn't happy about that either. I
know I probably go against you know, popular, popular, you
know voice on this, but I sort of think she
has actually she's taken advice, she stood back, She's reviewed

(12:11):
her options, and then she's come forward with a plan.
I mean the plan is to obviously review now executive
appointments as well. You know, like I think what we're
in right now is quite the mess given the fact
that you know that we are talking about here, you

(12:31):
know what could be deemed a HR issue, a conflict
of interest absolutely, But would it be as messy as
it currently is? Do you think, Matt, had we not
been in a situation just a couple of years ago,
which you've written about very extensively this morning in the
Northern Territory News. You know where Colleen Gwynn was forced
into the situation that she was in what many would

(12:54):
see as quite a similar situation.

Speaker 4 (12:57):
Some would even argue a more trivial issue, Katie, because
in Colin Gwinn's case, she refused herself from sitting on
the selection panel and declared a conflict of interest to
her superiors and sought advice from the HR director of
the Department of Attorney in General and Justice, who sought
advice from the Solicitor General's Office, all of which was
known and known by police who still ran an eighteen

(13:19):
month investigation into her that there's an issue where with
and you know, there's a massive issue with the IKAK
and the way the IKAK has been operating, and the
IKAK is so tarnished by things it's done and its
past that even I think if it does things correctly
now people are just up in ours because then you
do the comparison, you go, well, how come in this
case the IKAQ went ballistic put out a fifty page

(13:42):
report named Everyone under the Sun, and in this case
it's offering anonymity and saying, oh, this should be an
educational piece. You know, the contrast there is really difficult
for the public to swallow. And the contrast I think
between Colin Gwinn's treatment, you know, subject to a three
year investigation put for the court, you know, has their
office bugged everything else that was done to her ruined

(14:04):
her life basically to the point where she even thought
about taking her own life, as opposed to a very
similar situation, if not more serious, that goes to the
IKAC and comes out in an anonymized report that says
it's an educational tool. I just don't know how you
can how people can be comfortable with the looking at
those two cases and saying we handle one case like

(14:27):
this and we handled the other one like this, it
just doesn't And.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
You're absolutely right, and that's why we absolutely have to
have we have to look at the framework. We have
to ask those questions. As somebody who wasn't involved in
government at the time and watching as an employer, watching
one unfolded with Colleen Gwyn was incredibly baffling because on
the surface it certainly looked like it was a really

(14:51):
poor HR decision and how that ended up where it
did so. And then we look at what's happening with
Commissioner Rich, which is currently there's all of this process
that is not a process, and we absolutely have to
get it sorted. And I think this has just brought
it to the fore. We've certainly there was certainly something

(15:12):
that was on our agenda going forward because what had
happened in the past with Colleen, what had happened in
the past, or what was currently underway with the current
commissioner of ICAC meant it clearly isn't functioning the way
it's meant to function. What is its intention, what's it
supposed to be achieving, Where is it supposed to be
heading and I don't think anyone can look at it

(15:34):
and get a clear picture on that. So we absolutely
committed to working to get that sorted out and make
sure that anyone who may have contact from the IKAK
in the future understands exactly what they can expect.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
Look, obviously, the IKAK is, you know, a huge part
of this story and of this discussion. But the other
part of this discussion is indeed the fact that the
government's now announced an independent inquiry into recent senior police recruitments.
This inquiry is going to be facilitated through the Office
of the Commissioner for Public Employment and led by the

(16:10):
Honorable Acting Justice Alan blow Aoh. I mean, do we
think that this is the right move in terms of
giving police some clarity, getting them through this period of review,
making sure that you know that everybody in those positions
absolutely should be in those positions, and being able to
move forward.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Well, the Police Association have raised the issue. They've said
that they want clarity and they want to make sure
that everybody is comfortable that everybody is in the role
that they're in because they are there on merit and deservedly.
So I think the most important thing that we have
to state in this is that our police do an
amazing job. They work in a really tough environment. They're

(16:53):
working really hard to keep territory and safe and make
sure that we as a community feel confident in what
they're doing. They're fantastic people. If there's anything that makes
anyone be concerned about that, it has to be clarified.
And having heard from the Police Association Nathan Finn that

(17:14):
he had you know that his members were concerned in
this space, then the best way to do it is
just clear the air and get somebody independent to come
in review everything and go Yep, nothing to see here,
or this could have been done better. We will see
that review, we'll get the report, and then we can
move forward on that.

Speaker 5 (17:33):
Well. I think what's happened with Murphy has opened a
whole can of worms which people have been wanting to
see the lid open for a long long time. This
is the thin edge of the wedge. I think that
doing this review is a nice way of approaching it.

(17:54):
It's probably predictable, but the appetite for reform within the
police is massive and its stems I think from the
whole zach Rolf case. There's been rumblings and dissatisfaction for many,
many years now, and I think that the demand for

(18:15):
reform from top to bottom in the police force is
going to come crashing down on the Minister for Police,
who is Leofanocchiaro, the chief Minister. She's trying to manage this.
There's a good reason why former chief ministers have flicked
the police portfolio to someone else, because it is a

(18:38):
very very difficult portfolio to manage. We saw Gunna do it,
we saw Adam Giles do it. There is Alison Nicole Manison.
There's no votes in being the Minister for Police because
it is fraught with these very difficult things and we're

(18:59):
just seeing starting to emerge now. But it's also the
public face of how this will be managed and changed.
And I think the reason why Leah Forinochiiro took so
long to respond is to give herself time to do
this right. Because Natasha Files botched the dismissal of Jamie

(19:24):
Chalker less than two years ago. That's on the public record.
She lost confidence in Jamie Chalker, not because of an
Eyecak report. He wasn't found to have been corrupted or
engaged in misconduct like Murphy, but he had lost the
confidence of the Chief Minister for a whole range of reasons,
and she stuffed it up. And we will never know

(19:45):
what that golden handshake looked like, how much it was.
But Leah is wise enough to learn from the past
and take some time. So although I hear Selena say
she's stuffed around and taken a time and hasn't sort
of met the public expectation around time frames, I say,
take your timely. If it's going to save us, the

(20:07):
public of the Northern poetry potentially millions of dollars, Take
as long as you need.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Look and on that. Anyone who's been an employer, anyone
who's worked in this space knows you can't be reactive.
You have to do as Robin has said, you have
to make sure you know exactly what the situation is,
exactly what you can do within the framework of legislation
and law, and make sure you get it right. And

(20:34):
I think the reason the Chief Minister took on the
Minister this portfolio is because she does understand how important
it is and she wanted to make sure that it
was the forefront of what we're doing and that we
do get it right.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
I think Robin's point about this being the thin end
of the wedge is a really important one because this
is just going to be a review that goes back
to August twenty twenty three and look at the appointments
that happened under Murphy. And yes, I think that's warranted,
but whether that's enough, because I'm not sure that this
is not And what's being alleged here is you know,

(21:09):
we're calling it the jobs for Mate scandal or whatever,
but you know, it could be it's about people putting
people they want into positions and subverting the process that's
supposed to be there, right And I'm not sure that
over time that's been limited to the Northern Territory Police,
and I'm not sure it's been limited to that time frame.
So you know, we can have a look at this

(21:30):
little period here, but I think it might be just
the opening of a much bigger can of worm.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
In terms of other departments oments.

Speaker 4 (21:40):
I mean, I'll talk about this example because I know
it backwards, but look at Ken Middlebrook. He labor loves
to beat up at the moment, right who after leaving
the Northern Territory because he couldn't get a job here
applies for a job as the superintendent of the Darwin Prison,
a job for which he is overqualified. He's worked in
corrections for thirty years, right, there is not a more

(22:01):
qualified person to do that job. He applies for the position,
there's an independent panel that sits, he is found and
the documents show this to be the outstanding candidate for
that job. And then mysteriously it all gets scrapped and
they start again and someone else gets the job.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Labor didn't mind ever, I mean, Selena, is that the
case has has you know, has Labor been guilty of,
you know, going through interesting recruitment processes. I guess to
put it mildly.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
O Katie, I think like the discussion around the proper
process and recruitment is an extremely important one. What you
know other members of the panel have spoken about is
what territories really want to see. They want to see
fair and just processes around recruitment. Something our Labor Opposition
supports is that independent inquiry. We know that police want

(22:52):
to restore confidence and trust in integrity, particularly at that
high level of the police leadership, so something that we
absolutely support. I think that this will provide that opportunity
for I guess another level of scrutiny at those decisions
that have been made. But I'm also hearing Katie through
some of my networks that some of our hard working

(23:15):
police are also wanting other positions to be looked at.
So it'll be interesting to see if the government does
expand to I guess meet the expectation of some of
the police members who do want to see an expansion
into that inquiry.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
But also other appointments. What do which.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
As in other positions, so not just the ones that
have been outlined announced by the Chief Minister, so senior positions,
but not in the scope of what's currently been put
out in the inquiry. So if this be interesting to
see if the government is willing to expand that, and
also will the inquiry and the report and the findings
be made public. That's what I'd like to know as well, Katie.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
I do think it was said in the pressurelease that
it's the Chief Minister's in for that to be presented
to Parliament. So look, I've got her on the show
on Monday, so I'll certainly ask that we are going
to have to take a really quick break. You are
listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty. It
is the week that was well. If you have just
joined us in the studio this morning, we've got Robin Lamley,

(24:18):
Robin Carl, Matt Cunningham and on the line in Catherine,
we've got Selena Ubo. Now we know that it's been
a busy week, or it certainly always is a pretty
busy week, I think when we talk about prisoner numbers,
but this week's been an interesting one for a raft
of reasons. We know this morning it's being reported the
ABS has confirmed the Northern Territories experiencing record prisoner numbers.

(24:39):
In the Northern Territory, Matthew Varley joined us on the
show yesterday. He said, including watchhouse numbers, we're at around
two thousand to eight hundred MI. Understanding is that's the
highest I think we've just about ever been. In addition
to that, though we know that the Northern Territory, well
we experienced and we still do as I understand it,

(25:01):
we still do have a prisoner on the run or
certainly someone who has escaped custody. So the Northern Territory
Police had said that they do not believe a serious
violent offender who escaped from custody on Tuesday night poses
a risk to the general public, despite police on the
ground searching for the individual and being told that he

(25:25):
may be armed, violent and mentally ill. That is according
to a report by the Australian newspaper. Now on Wednesday morning,
we obviously got a statement from the Northern Territory Police
saying that the man had absconded through a window from well,
we were told from a correctional center. We now know
that's the Forensic Disability cottages at the Darwin Correctional Center.

(25:46):
My understanding, based on that discussion with Matthew Valley yesterday
is that's actually managed by the Department of Health, is
my understanding. He did have an ankle monitoring bracelet on
that was cut off. Failing to locate the twenty one
year old, Northern Territory Police obviously calling for help from
the Northern Territory public. Now hopefully Crystal's listening and is

(26:10):
able to give me a thumbs up, but I believe
that he's still missing. He's still on the run at
this point in time. There's a lot that we can't
say about his former offending because it was when he
was a youth wasn't it.

Speaker 4 (26:23):
Mass That's right, I think so, Katie, Yes so, But
it's a worrying situation.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Nonetheless, it certainly is. I mean, I don't think anybody
wants to see somebody who is supposed to be in
custody on the run worrying as well. If we're being
told that he doesn't pose a risk, but then the
police are being told to be extra cautious because he
may be armed and potentially dangerous.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
So the police absolutely are out there searching for this person,
and we know that they've got a pretty good track
recorded tracking people down, so we have every confidence that
they will locate him and return him to that facility
and he will get the ongoing care that he needs.

Speaker 4 (27:05):
Are you confident and he doesn't present a risk to
the public.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
I know all the information I have is what's been
released by the police. They're confident that he doesn't, so
we you know, trusting that advice, and they're really they
are out there looking for him. They will obviously have
information about where he's likely to be. That's usually something
that is available to the police, and I'm certain that

(27:30):
they will locate him in the not too distant future.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Selena, what do you make of the situation. I mean,
do you reckon it's a worry that you know that
we as a public are being told he's not a danger,
but then obviously the police being urged to be quite cautious. Nonetheless,
you know, if he's meant to be in a facility,
you would hope that that's where he is.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, it's always a worry if there's a risk to
the public. Katie. There was also a prisoner that escaped
from the Alla Springs Chrection Center, I think earlier this
week I read in the media release. So, I mean
this is a huge issue around the pressures on our
correction system. I know that the COLP has said that
there's more infrastructure, that's more support, but you know we're

(28:10):
not going to necessarily see any of those changes and
tell what they've promised is delivered, So we may see
more incidents of this, but I think community safety obviously
always has to be paramount. I think the warnings are
out from the police and I hope that they find
this missing prisoner very very soon.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Well, look, it does come on the same week that
the Minister for Corrections, Jared Maylee, said that the government's focused,
of course on making sure the correctional system have the infrastructure,
resources and workforce to support and manage rising custodial demands.
So we now know that since coming online in December,

(28:49):
bremer Correctional Center is now being expanded to accommodate more
than three hundred and ten extra prisoners. The additional infrastructure
is progressing well ahead of schedule, the government says. Additionally,
one hundred plus bed temporary demountables at the Berima Correctional
Center are now online. Another forty eight beds are expected

(29:11):
to be operational by the end of the month. We've
also seen correctional staff move out of the watchhouses a
bit of aljibaji or a bit of discussion, I guess
you'd say yesterday on the show speaking to the Police
Association saying Katie, yep, the staff have moved up, but
we've still got prisoners in there. Robin, what's your take
on that?

Speaker 2 (29:29):
So I just followed on that up on that because
I did hear that discussion yesterday. So essentially in Palmerston
and the Darwin Catherine area, the prisoners who were under
the control of corrections offices have been moved out. There
are still some prisoners in those watchhouses who are in

(29:52):
police custody. In Alice Springs, there are still some prisoners
there who were in corrections custody. They are being trained
positioned out. So yesterday there were sixty one prisoners in
the al Springs watchhouse. They move twenty five yesterday, and
they're moving more out today and progressing that through. It's

(30:12):
you know, obviously, when you're moving prisoners from one space
the other, you've got to make sure you do it
carefully and properly and so that the transition works the
way you want it to. And you're not going to
be moving one hundred people, for example, all in one hit,
so you want to make sure everything is settled when
you move the next lot through. So I know that
corrections offices are working really hard with police to make
sure that that happens and will there will always be

(30:35):
prisoners in watch houses because that essentially is potentially their
purpose to people who are taken into custody police have
the option is to have them in police custody and
then when the point in time where they get transferred
to corrections, the goal would be that they then get
transferred to a correctional facility and bringing online that additional infrastructure.

(30:56):
Is what is happening to ensure that that can happen instrumental?

Speaker 5 (31:00):
Right, Certainly a boom industry, isn't it. I think it
is the boom industry.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Do you want them on the street? Do you want
them in prison? And I think the answer to that's
pretty obvious.

Speaker 5 (31:13):
It'd be hard to keep tabs on twenty eight hundred people.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
You know, I thought to myself yesterday when I was
interviewing the Corrections Commissioner Matthew Valley, I thought, he is
literally in managing a small town, you know, he is
managing people of all you know, and all of the
correctional yes, and all of the correctional stuff, you know,
everybody that works across these facilities doing you know, like
I think they're doing a bloody good job considering that

(31:39):
they're the only population in the Northern Territory that's growing,
you know, like it's it's literally the only place where
we're seeing those numbers go up. And rightly so, as
you said, Robert, you know, people don't want to see
dangerous people on the street.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
You know, we were very firm about dangerous violent offenders
shouldn't be on the street. They should be in custody,
and interestingly, Victoria this week has announced they're going to
take exactly the same approach. So I think, you know,
people have got to the point where it's not okay
for violent offenders to be released on bail. It's not
okay for community not to feel safe, and there's a

(32:14):
consequence of that, and that is that we have to
work through the demand pro problem.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
That's a really interesting point actually that you raised about Victoria,
and I know even earlier in the week we were
speaking about some of the offending that we've seen in
the top end over the last few days, and Robin Lamley,
I'm sure in Alice Springs it's a similar situation. But
we spoke to Dale Walter Barnard from Strikeforce Trident and
he'd said he'd talked me through a number of people

(32:40):
that have been arrested for various different vehicle thefts. The
volume of them that are actually on bail is astronomical.
You know, like you just think to yourself, how are
we in a situation where people are on bail and
then they're then out stealing land cruisers, you know, stealing
car in some cases last week, ramming police cars. It

(33:05):
just begs belief.

Speaker 4 (33:06):
And then you talk about the morale of our hard
working police, and I've never heard so many people in
my life as I've heard this week, say what a
great job our police do. I mean here here, right.
But there are two things I reckon that would affect
my morale if I was a police officer, and one
would be seeing someone who I didn't think was meritorious
being promoted ahead of me, And the other one would
be having to chase around people again and again and

(33:30):
again for the same issue at my potential, at the
expense of my potential well being and potential physical harm
because they keep being let go.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
It needs to tighten up, There's no doubt about it.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
I think one of the things that we're seeing is
where we identified as we're coming running the election campaign,
where the pressure points were. But what we're seeing as
we implement those legislative changes, there are other pressure points
that are emerging and we will deal with it as
as they emerge.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
I mean, are we in a situation I did ask
the Chief Minister about this a couple of weeks ago,
going through the Youth Justice Act, I mean, does it
need a full review?

Speaker 2 (34:10):
It absolutely does, because we know, for example, it's been
one of my regular comments is that juveniles who are
put the option of diversionary programs can just go, no,
I'm not going to do it. So you absolutely need
to change that, and we are changing that. So I say, well,
that's really unfortunate, but you are going to do that.
It's manday.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
So what's the consequence at the moment if they're giving
youth the version then they say I'm not going to
do it.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
There is There isn't one, which is why we're changing it.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
So are there programs because Selena, I know that Chancey
Peig had been really firm in saying that they weren't
you know, that they weren't going to make changes, particularly
when it came to the criminal age of responsibility, until
there were programs in place. So I mean, I'm assuming
you guys had some programs running.

Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, there were programs, Katie, And obviously there's a list
and not be very hard to believe that if Robin
doesn't know what those programs are. But just listening to
the discussion Katie and the pressure points on correction, the
great work that we know police are doing in the
community under some very difficult circumstances. Some of the most
violent offenders in the Northern Territory are perpetrators of domestic

(35:15):
and family violence. So really love to hear from Robin
as the responsible Minister what other mechanisms are they going
to be under her portfolio to support the work of
the police to reduce the pressure of the correction system
when it's focused on those domestic and family and sexual
violence prevention sector. The money that was requested by the sector,

(35:38):
the money that the CP hasn't started rolling out, and
basically sounds like we'll refuse to roll out when we're
talking about Selena.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
I'm not sure.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
As we speaks, the highest rate of violent offending that
we see day in day out in our communities right
across the NT, whether you're in a town, a city,
a rural regional era or a remote area, is linked
to domestic and family violence. I'd love to know that.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Look, I think one of the things we absolutely have
to acknowledge is that the work on the front line
is extraordinary. The people who are out there on the
front line are doing an amazing job, whether it's a police,
whether it's domestic service providers, whatever it is. And as
I said, so I'm not quite sure where you've been
for the last month, but we have rolled out the
thirty six mil. It is coming out in the budget process.

(36:26):
I've met with most of the providers. I've let them
know that we are working very closely with them to
make sure that we get this right. So we're making
sure that well, we're making sure that those services that
are funded already to the end of the year. And
we've also put in place. We've expanded the corresponding model,
which was one of the recommendations from the Coronial from

(36:49):
the Coronial Service, the Coronial Finding. So that's that corresponding
model has been expanded. At the moment, it's operating in
both the day it's operating in Darwin's, operating in Alice Springs,
Palmeston and Catherine, and we're rolling it forward into Tenant
and to Norman Boy. Obviously there's some other components that
need to go with that. I think the thing that

(37:10):
we really have to acknowledge is that you can't keep
doing things the same way. You have to change things.
So what we need to do is, yes, there are
a significantly higher number of proportion of offenders in the
system who are domestic violence offenders, it's around sixty seven percent.
That is that's a clear demonstration of the failure of
what happened under the previous government. What you can't keep

(37:32):
doing the same thing and expect a different response. So
that's why we're working closely with the sector to progress
the change.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
We are going to have to take a quick break.
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was well, you are listening
to the week that was on the line in Catherine.
We've got Selena Rubo, the Opposition leader. We've got Robin Lambley.
We've got Robin carl and Matt Cunningham in the studio
with us this morning. Now, one of the things I
was keen to discuss, very different to what we've been

(37:59):
talking thing about so far this morning, is the fact
that the government's considering integrating the Northern Territory Major Events
Company and Tourism INT to establish what they've described as
a more targeted and strategic approach to attract visitors to
the Northern Territory. The Minister for Tourism, Hospitality and Hospitality,
Mary Clare Boothby and made the announcement earlier in the week,

(38:21):
saying the government was exploring ways to drive efficiencies and
better leverage the expertise within both organizations and maximize visitation.
Now call me a skeptic, but my first thought was,
hang on a sec nt. Major events are getting things
done and seem to be able to get things done,
and I wonder whether part of that is because they're

(38:41):
not bound by bureaucracy. But you know, according to the minister,
she said that it would be a strategic move as
both organizations were working towards the same goal and that
is indeed bringing visitors to the Northern Territory.

Speaker 5 (38:55):
Bring it on, Bring it on, I reckon. There's a
lot of fat cat setting in the Department of Tourism.
There always has been, never really known what they do.
They don't seem to deliver that much. I say, get
rid of everyone who's underperforming. Make you combine these two departments. Well,

(39:16):
I don't know, give it a go.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Come like a mammoth. But that slows down.

Speaker 5 (39:20):
I'd take it one step further though, I'd get rid
of those two and just put them all in business
and reduce the whole thing by about fifty percent.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
I think if we go back, we go back to
why it was created, like twenty five odd years ago,
was to create that focus on major on the big
things that we could be doing. Over time, there's an
increasing alignment between both areas and they should be working
really closely together. And that's really what this is about.
You know, we don't want duplication because that creates challenges

(39:51):
left and right hand not knowing what the others doing.
They already are working together on things. That just makes
sense to actually pull that blend together and actually make
sure we've got the big event that then flows into
people staying for an extra week. For example, we've been
doing a lot of work around connectivity into Southeast Asia.
So you know, how great can we we promote the

(40:11):
V eights. We say, come here, spend some time and
do and fly across, spend some time in Denpasar, come back,
do some more stuff in Darwin. I think we really
have an opportunity to do a really good push about
the territory as a whole, and the major events component
of that will be added into that mix.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:28):
Well, I take your point about getting things done, but
I think what you need to get things done. He's
a minister that tells the Department to get things done.
That's how you get things done, and that's when things
don't get done.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Reckon.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
We have seen that, I mean, Selena, is this is this?
Are they doing exactly what Labour says that the CLP
will do, and that is cut jobs and you know,
find ways to save money.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
How Katie, I think the machinery of government change is
obviously the government of the day's prerogative. So that's what
the CLPS to do. But opposite to Robin Lambley, you know,
our labor opposition wants to make sure and guarantee that
there will be no job cuts around this process. The
COLP government promised there would be no cuts to the
public service. Is this their stealthy way around that we

(41:15):
yet to see once this machinery of government change is made.

Speaker 5 (41:18):
You know, Selena, after coming back into government as speaker,
I am astounded at how slow government functions. And I
think after eight years of labor you guys took your
eye off the ball. You weren't in charge, and you've
allowed government to become fat and lazy. And if this

(41:41):
new government wants to kick things along and stir people
up and get a little bit more out of them,
then so be it good on them.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
That's absolutely the message with sending Robert and certainly I
know the in this Minister Boothby has been very clear
with her team in in this space, results driven, accountability, transparency.
We're spending money in this space. We need to make
sure that we're getting the results there. He's working very

(42:11):
hard to make that happen.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Well, we are going to have to take a really
quick break. You are listening to Mix one oh four
point nine three sixty. The hour is flying by. Well,
it has been a busy hour and a massive thank
you to everybody who's joined us on the show this morning. Selena,
Rubo and Catherine, thank you so much for your time today.

Speaker 5 (42:30):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Katie and of course Robin Lambley here from Alice Springs
for the show. Thank you very much for joining us
this morning. Busy week next week.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Very good week.

Speaker 5 (42:40):
Yes, thank you for having me Katie.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
Lovely to have you on the show. Robin Carl, Minister
for Families Children, all sorts of portfolios.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Thanks Patie, and I'm happy Friday to everyone and have
a great weekend.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Oh I'm Matt Cunningham from Sky News. It's going to
be a big weekend of footy, isn't it match?

Speaker 4 (42:56):
Good luck to everyone playing in the Grand finals on
the weekend. Wilfee and how were the Tigers last night?

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Were back? Yeah, I have no bias, but yeah, go
the Tigers.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
I was watching the rugby leg and crying into my drink,
you know, and go the night last night.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
Yeah I was sharing for them, but I was, well,
that is it for the week.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
That was this morning, thank you all so much for
your time