The Week That Was – 15th December 2023

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is time for the week that was the final
week that was for twenty twenty three. And in the
studio with us this morning from the colp, we have
got Steve Edgington.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Good morning to you.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Oh, good morning Katie. And it's great to be here
in Darwin this morning. But you know, nice, nice and
rainy by the looks of straight sunshine and ten crake
and forty one degrees.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah, I was thinking, is that weather a little bit
different up here in the top end today than what
you're experiencing at tenne Craik?

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Yeah, I bet.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
And we've got Kezier Puric, the Independent member for Goida.
Good morning to you, Keezier.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
Morning Katie, Morning bush people, and came.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
In this year with a phenomenal Christmas hat. I've got
to say, it's unbelievable and she and she did sort of.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
And she did dance a little bit for us as
she walked into the studio with that phenomenal hat on
as well, and of course from the Labor Party, the
well Minister of a Territory firms also the member for
Karama Nari a Kid, Good morning to you, Nari.

Speaker 5 (01:04):
Good morning Katie, Good morning listeners, and thank you Kizier
for bringing me in that amazing hat.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, and I will say Nari is sporting some beautiful
Christmas earings and a hat as well. It's hard to
compete though with that noisy hat, is it?

Speaker 6 (01:16):
You cannot compete? You don't even bother Katie.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, you don't even try.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Well, look, let's get into it because there is still
so much to cover off this week and generally it
does get a little bit quieter throughout the final week
of the year in terms of broadcasting, but not this week.
And we know the Northern Territory Government making quite a
large announcement yesterday will an announcement about additional resources.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
And I've just dropped my run sheets.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
I'll just grab it quickly to let you know exactly
what's going on. But so basically, the government announced the
creation of a brand new NTI police division dedicated to
high visibility policing and social order response and enforcement. It's
called the Territory Safety It's being established immediately, with ten

(02:02):
officers already part of the TSD as it's called in Darwin,
and more than fifty to be part of that division
following further recruitment. They'll be based at the Nightcliff Police
Station and the TSD is going to focus on high
visibility policing in the Greater Darwin region with it's going
to focus on rapid response to alcohol related defending, anti

(02:25):
social behavior, and social order. The division is also going
to help, they say, ensure the safety of territories during
critical incidents and the public order or crowd management for
large gatherings or events. Now, the really obvious question here
is where are they coming from?

Speaker 7 (02:42):
I think the first question is all those things you've
just read out, Katie, that's what police do anyway, well
to my way of thinking, and I'm sure to lots
of people listening to this show will think, aren't please
doing that already? Don't they respond rapidly to critical incidents
like a shooting or something of that nature. Don't they
respond to drunken behavior in public? Don't they respond?

Speaker 4 (03:00):
Do this?

Speaker 7 (03:00):
Aren't they high viz? You know, coffee with a cop
and you know they're out in the street. I see cars, places,
see haven't seen people on the horses for a while.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
But please doing that already?

Speaker 6 (03:08):
I mean, I don't get it.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Well, is this a response where just last week we
saw the situation We'll talk more about seeing your safety shortly.
But just last week on this show, we spoke to
the mother, well to Poppy Politis, who's the daughter, i
should say, of an eighty five year old woman who
was assaulted in Nightcliff in broad daylight by allegedly by

(03:30):
two twelve year old girls and a nineteen year old
who has been arrested and charged. But is this a
knee jerk reaction from a chief minister who wants to
keep her seat.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
No doubt about it, Katie. You know, firstly, the first
thing they're going to have to do is get in
there and clean out the cob webs of this police
station because it certainly hasn't been used to this extent
since it's been there. But to have that based at
Nightcliff in response to that incident to the other week,
it just goes to show that this is more about

(04:00):
pork barreling rather than a police operation, because, as Kizia said, policing.
When it comes to policing, this is basic, basic policing,
back to basics, and this is what it should be
and ready, but this should be happening right around the
Northern Territory and it's not just nightcliff that needs this
full operation that's going on. So there's going to be
ten police officers based there at nightcliff, and to hear

(04:21):
that there's going to be a further forty there.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
Where are they coming from?

Speaker 3 (04:24):
Where are they coming from? Because, Alice, you've only got
to look at the annual report since what twenty twelve,
twenty thirteen, there's only been an additional twenty police officers
in the last ten years. And when I say police officer,
I'm talking about constable. So they're the guys that are
out on the front line every day of the week
doing the job. But there's only been an extra twenty
in real numbers over the last ten or eleven years.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
May Marry, the people of your community have been calling
for a police station or a police presence, a permanent
police presence there for some time. How are you feeling
about the fact that it's going to be a nightcliff
rather than an area like Karama, which a lot of
people would argue is potentially more in need.

Speaker 6 (05:02):
So a few things there, Katie.

Speaker 5 (05:05):
Police already do a great job in responding wherever and
whenever they can, and I want to say thank you
for that. We do have a police station that's already
built in Nightcliff. It's not at full capacity, so there's
the space that we were able to move this team
already into, which is great. There are ten officers already
in the Territory Safety Division, as you've mentioned, and we
will continue to recruit more. We actually have recruitment going

(05:26):
on at the moment and we'll continue to do so.
And what's good about that, and Steve mentioned it, is
we actually have recruitment above our attrition level, so we
are adding those extra numbers in there. Kizzier, you mentioned
you know that police are already doing this, and shouldn't
they They absolutely are. But as a government and as
a police force, we're always looking at ways where we
can respond to the needs of the community. How do

(05:47):
we work smarter, not harder, and maximize the benefits out
of the workforce and the capacity we already have. So
Minister Potter has been working really closely with his agency,
the Police Force Commissioner Murphy, listening to their ideas on
how they can maximize their benefit with their resources they have.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
I think the real question at the moment is ten
going in there. Where are they coming from? Are they
being pulled out of patrols out of dar and out
of Casarina, or people being pulled up from Catherine. Where
are these ten coming from?

Speaker 2 (06:17):
It's a very good question.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
A budget for this operation.

Speaker 7 (06:19):
So they're going to be based at the police station
at night, clear, that's my understanding.

Speaker 4 (06:23):
Nice, that's fine.

Speaker 7 (06:25):
That means they're coming from somewhere else, So they're going
to be based there. But then they're going to go
out on patrol and do whatever they normally do and
response putting people back to paperwork. So really, to me,
it sounds like they're just moving, moving the chairs like
you were over there in that station Palmeston or.

Speaker 4 (06:38):
Dal and where about it? And now you're going tobody night.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
What happens if they actually arrest somebody.

Speaker 4 (06:43):
They'll be taking outstae.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
So you've got ten police I don't they say? They
out and about tomorrow they arrest three or four people.
Potentially they're off the road for half the day processing
people out at Palmest.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Well, look, we are going to make sure that we
catch up with the Northern Territory Police Association president Nathan Finn.
He's going to be joining us on the show this
morning just after ten o'clock. So we'll hopefully find out
a little bit more from his perspective and exactly what
the goal is where those police officers are you know,
I mean he's not going to have those operational sort
of details. That's something we'll have to get from the

(07:17):
Northern Territory Police Commissioner in terms of finding out exactly
where they are coming from and how it's all going
to work. But look, they're the biggest things that I'm
hearing from the community right now is where exactly are
they going to come from? Are we robbing Peter to
pay Paul? Are we sort of you know, taking them
from another area to move them into this location? And
is it a bit of pork barreling for the Chief

(07:38):
Minister's seat. They are some of the things that have
been raised since the announcement was made yesterday. And I
think really the thing that the Northern Territory government's grappling
with at the moment is while there are announcements being made,
a lot of people are feeling as though it's tinkering
around the edges. And in addition to that, it's reactive.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yes, I think too, Katie.

Speaker 7 (08:00):
I mean I've mentioned it before this the concept is
the fact that the governors had to do this indicates
that there's a serious issue in our community, which we
know is a serious issue in our community. I'll give
you example of how particularly older people seeniorr territories. I
went to a couple of probost lunches recently for Christmas,
and at one of them, a woman who.

Speaker 4 (08:20):
Is well known in the territory. She's retired.

Speaker 7 (08:22):
She said she went to Casina the other day and
this woman was not a shrinking violet, you know. And
she said that when she went to put her stuff
in her car, she was obviously an underground area. Two
lots of two two's came and started to circle her.
They were indigenous youth and they were girls and a
couple of boys. And then a couple nearby saw what
was happening. So she came over to her and said,

(08:43):
we will just stay with you for a while. And
she said, that is really lovely. She said to me
at this lunch, she said, I will never go to
Casarina again. She said she really believed they were going
to menace her and I either steal stuff from her
because she'd done.

Speaker 4 (08:56):
Shopping and she'd have a handbag or whatever.

Speaker 7 (08:58):
But if it hadn't move for that couple right there
at that time to come and stand with her, I
have no doubt she would have been attacked. Now she said,
I will never go to Casuarina again. Now that's indicative.
A couple of the other ladies who are on the
table with me, they said, no, we don't go.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
To casual well, which is really like, it's a really
terrible situation because you know, I've been to Casuarina I
reckon three times this week trying to get my Christmas
shopping done.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
But you're, well, that's right, and I've not had an issue.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
But when seniors are worried about that kind of thing,
and when you do have incidents that are occurring, like
what happened to, you know, to the great grandmar last week,
this is when people do become worried.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
They become worried and they change the way that they're
doing it.

Speaker 7 (09:37):
Says Katie long time ago, months ago on this show
is escalating and things will come to a time when
it will be we haven't even got to the crisis level.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
I don't believe.

Speaker 7 (09:46):
I think it's still coming. And people are being attacked
in broad daylight Katie.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
The sad thing is that it's not just Casarina the
same thing. And you know, I've been approached by elderly
people that have been surrounded outside their vehicle outside the
Ida and Chanet Creek. So now we've had examples of
a seventy three year old in TenneT Creek has been
broken into ninety seven times. So we've had a just
last year and eighty four year old broken into twice,

(10:12):
not to the ground by a younger people. And it
seems to me that there's more and more focus on
the vulnerable people in our community and something needs to
be done. So having ten people based at Nightcliff, for
You've got to ask the question is that really the
priority at the moment because this is happening right around
the territory. Putting fifty people into what do they call

(10:32):
it a safety division, we've got escalating domestic violence, break ins,
elderly people being targeted right around the northern territory. Is
that really the best use of resources at the moment?

Speaker 7 (10:42):
And also the response time, Like if the people are
physically based at Nightcliffe and they have to respond to
incidents in Parmesan which happened regularly, you know that's a
twenty minute drive. Twenty five minute drive like Cave sirrens on,
you might get there a bit quicker. So I'll be
interested to hear from the police associations, even the Police
Commissioner loses they did in regards to response times going
from nightclift to where the incidents and the accidents and

(11:06):
the social upheaval is actually occurring.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, look, there's plenty of messages coming through on the
text line about this, and we did speak more about
senior safety as well. On Monday morning, we caught up
with Sue Shira from the Council of the Aging, the
CEO of the Council of the Aging, and she did
speak about the fact that we have got people in
some instances coming in from communities.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Running a mark or not doing the right thing, and.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
She did question whether the land councils have a part
to play in terms of educating and in terms of
bringing in the elders to sort of try to educate
some of the young people or some of those people
that are doing the wrong thing.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Nari, what do you think about that approach?

Speaker 5 (11:41):
To hear about these incidences is just absolutely disgusting and
shocking and that's not okay by any stretch, especially if
you're targeting, like you said, Steve, vulnerable members.

Speaker 6 (11:50):
Of our community.

Speaker 5 (11:51):
Yeah, and so the Territory Safety Division's focus is about
working smarter or not harder, with the resources we have.
What we've got to make sure we do is and
will continue to do, is rings Barkley. They need localized responses.
They're the police officers on the ground operationally who know
the community, not those up here in the northern suburbs
of Darwin, and so making sure that this adds value

(12:11):
to everything that's going on.

Speaker 6 (12:12):
It's not the be all and end all. Palmerston is a.

Speaker 5 (12:15):
Bit of a drive away, as you said, Keysier, but
there will be a response locally and this will come
over the top of that is my understanding, Katie. We're
continuing to focus on not only ensuring that those who
are displaying appalling behavior threatening others, physically assaulting others are
held to account. That is number one. Number two is
actually as a Minister of Territory Families, I'm always looking

(12:37):
at what leads a young person under the age of
eighteen to behave the way they do, so that we
can learn lessons and prevent the next generation becoming there
in regards to leadership, absolutely leadership, and for those that
are coming in and misbehaving in our urban centers, it's
not on it's not okay, and no one calls that okay.
So working in partnership not only with our land councils
but every other Aboriginal organization, this is a team effort

(13:00):
to ensure that people who are doing wrong are supported
to do right, to stay out of harm's way, especially
their kids, and to do better going forward.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
I mean, do you think that at this point that
there are and I don't want to point out any
particular organization or anything like that, but are we being
let down in some areas here?

Speaker 6 (13:17):
I don't have enough information about that.

Speaker 5 (13:19):
That's part of my new role as making sure that
I'm engaging with all of those even those who people
wouldn't think would be directly responsible, but giving people the
opportunity to be a part of the solution. There is
a clear role for all of us to play in
this space, to hold people to account, to educate people
from communities before they end up in urban centers about
community sentiments and that kurama is different.

Speaker 6 (13:39):
To what air.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, well that's exactly right and making sure you do
behave yourself when you're here.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
That's a big thing, Katie. We are being let down
at the moment. We've been let down by the Labor
government because when we start talking about land councils, we
start talking about communities, we start talking about a territory
safety division. This is all reactive stuff at the moment.
What it really highlights is the lack of plan to
bring down crime in the Northern Territory. I always talk
about this quite regularly in Tenant Creek right across the

(14:06):
Northern Territory. There is no overall plan to bring down
crime in the Northern Territory. To bring down crime, everybody
has a role to play right across the Northern Territory.
It needs a whole of government, whole of community approach.
There's no leadership in the Labor government at the moment.
All of these agencies need to be brought together. Everybody
needs to be held accountable. Everybody has a role to

(14:27):
play unless we have a documented plan and everybody is
held accountable for doing their part. And everybody has a role,
including land councils, like we just spoke about. This is
what's missing in the Northern Territory. There is no plan.
Labor has no idea at the moment.

Speaker 5 (14:41):
So as a Minister for Territory Families, I absolutely refute
that we have some really strong leaders in our communities
and you would know all too well in the Berkeley region, Steve,
about those people who are stepping up every day to
ensure that their community is led from the front and.

Speaker 6 (14:53):
Led by example.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
There is no plan.

Speaker 6 (14:55):
That's the Minister for Territory Families.

Speaker 5 (14:56):
My job is to ensure that my attention and the
government's attention, and it is not just on those who
are offending at the tail end. It is preventing crime
before it starts, because prevention is better than cure. Well, look,
I'm happy to send you all of the document's flight
Department has created support.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
Feesh sitting at the table. There is no regular meeting,
there is no plan. You've got a piecemeal approach right
across the Northern Territory. Get a plan together, get everybody
at the table, just because you believe them together and
collaborative approach to tackling this.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
We are going to have to take a very quick
break coming your way next. Keen to talk a little
bit more about those changes to the takeaway opening hours
at our liquor stores or aut our takeaway liquor stores
and the impact that it's possibly had over the last
couple of days.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
We'll see.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Well, it is the week that was the final week
that was for twenty twenty three, and we began this
week with the new time change trial aiming to curb
alcohol related harm. It began on Monday, as we all know,
so you weren't able to purchase or you're no longer
able to purchase your alcohol at ten am, you'll have
to wait until me day. It was indeed announced earlier

(16:02):
this month and according to the government requested by the
Northern Territory Police Commissioner. Now the Chief Minister has signed
that Section eighty eight declaration under the Liquor Act which
will alter the bottle shop opening times in Greater Darwin
including Palmerston and parts of the rural area. So basically
Monday to Friday, those training hours for sale of takeaway

(16:25):
liquor will change from ten am until twelve noon. Interesting
to see whether it makes much of a difference. It
is a trial, of course, that's going to go until
the twenty fifth of January and then it's going to
be reviewed. It has been met with criticism by hospitality, hint,
businesses and some politicians over that lack of consultation and
of course the loss of hours for staff ahead of Christmas.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
That's something that we spoke about.

Speaker 7 (16:48):
Yes, ten hours and often I've mostly going to b
bottle shops. They're usually younger people because it's a job
that they can start to get money in the bank
to buy.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
Their first union, students whatever.

Speaker 7 (17:00):
There's a few old chooks and old ducks there too,
but good ten hours. So it's roughly if you work
it out, it's roughly about to I've got a girlfriend
and her daughter works at the bottleshop. It's roughly two
hundred and fifty dollars a week out of their pay packet.
Now they may pick up ours somewhere else in the
company or wherever they work, but that's not the point,
you know, the lack of consultation, Well, there wasn't lack.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
There was no consultation.

Speaker 7 (17:24):
They have done no research because this has been done before,
as we mentioned off here in the mid nineties it
did not work. Then it may have a small impact
on cutting supply. I'll concede that because there'll be some
who just can't get their boosts and they give up
and go home or whatever, but the vast majority will
still find access to alcohol beverages at ten o'clock in
the morning called front bar of the various establishment in Darwin.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
And that's something that you know, that's something that hospitality
had raised with us, that you know it would be
a situation, and they'd actually said to us. And I
have been told this by a couple of different sources
now that in Alice Springs, for example, that yes, but
not having those the takeaway out let's for two days
does make a difference. But it hasn't actually made a
difference from what I have been told to the amount.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Of alcohol that's sold.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
So it hasn't actually seen a reduction, but it's seen
people maybe change the behavior their behavior to some degree
in the way in which well I'm not one hundred
percent sure or whether they you know, or whether they
are just drinking later in the day or drinking at
different times.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Or the week.

Speaker 7 (18:27):
If they have money to buy this is Alla Springs,
they have money to buy alcohol on the Monday and
the Tuesday they've got that money. So perhaps what they're
doing is stockpiling on the Sunday with the money they
would have spent on the Monday on a Tuesday.

Speaker 4 (18:37):
I don't know, but you're right.

Speaker 7 (18:38):
I've heard stories too that it has had a positive
impact like a production in the consumption and then related
you know, flow and EFIX hospital emission since o forth.

Speaker 4 (18:46):
But you don't know that not enough research went into this.
I don't believe. Yes, the police commissioner asked them to
do it.

Speaker 7 (18:53):
Well, the police commission probably asks them, recommends lots of
things to the dominent, and they may not do it
sometimes or they may do it sometimes. So to say, oh,
the police commissioner requested, therefore we're going to do it,
to me, it's a bit of a cop out. No
disrespect to the police commissioner. Wise man, very clever man,
and good at his job. But the government just says, oh, well,
the police said we should do this. So the police
say we should, you know, raise the driving license from
sixteen to eighteen. Now are they going to say, oh,

(19:14):
the police commissioner sad, we've got to get young people
off the roads and make it eighteen before we can
do we need to try something.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Though, Like the thing is, we all bitch and moan
every week. You know about the different issues that we've got.
So do we need to try something and whether this
is the right thing or whether it's something else before us. Well,
it's still January twenty.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
Five, and then what are they going to do?

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Well, good question of you, the pilot.

Speaker 6 (19:34):
So you're absolutely right, Kady, So bring the normal.

Speaker 5 (19:38):
We're going to review how this works and the wall,
assess the effectiveness on it, if we need to tweak it,
keep it in place going forward. So government has to
be responsive to the needs of the community. We can
see the damage as you know all too well, that
is being impacted widely throughout the community from those who
are problem drinking. We have a whole group of people

(19:58):
who are causing issue for everyone else, and that is
not fair. Sometimes vulnerable people need to be saved from themselves.
But I see it every day in Carama. I've had
a lot of conversations with local residents. We're excited about
these changes. I've spent two days this week and last
week down and Alla Springs, had a good chat with people. Again,
I've heard about the impact that's had on police. So
if police are on the front line, they're there to police.

(20:18):
We don't want them babysitting people who are intoxicated, especially
going into Christmas. So really looking at the effectiveness of
this going forward and we'll review that in January.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
How well, what kind of measures are going to be
looked at though to see whether it is working? Are
you going to be looking at sort of the emergency presentations?
Are you going to be looking at the volume of alcohol?
Like what exactly is the government going to be looking
at to determine whether it.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Has or has not worked?

Speaker 4 (20:42):
What are the KPIs?

Speaker 7 (20:43):
Yeah, that's you know, because if you stop the bottle
shop hours from ten to twelve, but people still want
access to alcohol, so they go into the pub. So
are they going to be looking at the consumption levels
within the establishment versus the drop of sales within the
bottle shops? And then how are they going to get
the industry to provide those figures?

Speaker 3 (21:01):
You know?

Speaker 4 (21:02):
So there's I'm sorry interrupted kdie but ye. That's the
thing though, is how is actually going to measure you know?

Speaker 6 (21:09):
Well?

Speaker 1 (21:09):
I agree, yeah, that's and I think that's such a
good point, Like I do think that that is such
a valid thing that we need to look.

Speaker 7 (21:14):
As are you going to relate that directly to the
alcohol that you couldn't get booze at levels, and so
the big thing from there.

Speaker 5 (21:20):
I think we possibly can to determine whether or not
this has actually had a benefit for you know, people
in the Dawn region, which is exactly what we.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
I think the really big thing for me at the
moment is we're making a lot of changes when it
comes to alcohol. And we know that alcohol is a
massive you know, it can be a massive scourge, and
we have a lot of alcohol related issues. But then
when we look at things like the crime statistics, it
doesn't really drill right down into whether something is an
alcohol related crime if there's a break in where alcohol

(21:51):
is stolen, or if there is you know, I mean,
I'm going to assume that you know a lot of
times where there is people committing crimes that they are
sometimes the influence of.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Drugs or alcohol.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
But are we able to then dig down a little
bit deeper into some of those crime statistics, some of
our hospital admission statistics and make them public so that
people actually do have a really fair idea of just
the impact that either drugs or alcohol are having, because
then they might come along for the journey a little
bit more when changes like this do happen, Katie.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
The reality is that right across the Northern Territory. I
think it's interesting to see restrictions coming here in Darwin
because we've been subject to this for many, many years,
particularly in the Barkley down in all of Springs. But look,
the reality is prohibition will never work, and what we've
seen over the last seven years under this Labor government

(22:42):
is a steady increasing crime. Now we've seen different restrictions
put in in Tenant Creek, right across the Barkley as well,
and one of the challenges is where do you start
and stop when you put in restrictions. And the government
still hasn't got it right when it comes to putting
in restrictions right around the Barkley. The boundary is just
some boundary that's arbitrarily been put in place by the government.

(23:07):
But the reality is that when it comes to crime,
we've seen a steady increase in crime. The Riley Report
came out in October twenty seventeen, and really what Riley
was saying is that there needs to be a more
holistic approach to tackling alcohol issues right across the Northern
Territory and the thing that I believe is missing it
gets down to education, treatment and rehabilitation. They're the things

(23:29):
that are missing. We keep I shouldn't say we. This
is the laybor government keeps tinkering around the edges when
it comes to prohibition, more and more restrictions. We know
that prohibition creates more crime, secondary supply, and more serious crime.
That's what we're seeing across the Northern Territory at the moment.
We need to start tackling the real issues, and that's
dealing with the problem.

Speaker 6 (23:48):
Drunks, and we continue to do that.

Speaker 5 (23:51):
And again coming back to the Territory Safety Division and
the important work that they're going to be doing. But again,
alcohol is a huge issue right across the Northern Territory
and we will continue to look at measures that can
be applied to keep people safe. Unfortunately, you know, decisions
made by government will adversely impact those who are played

(24:11):
by the rules and doing really you know, doing the
right thing when they're drinking alcohol. But it is those
who are unfairly impacting everyone else. We will continue to
work on education, stiff We will continue to help vulnerable
people to make better decisions and to support them, you know,
to stay on the right track and away from harm's way,
but where their impacts are being felt, then they need
to be tackled appropriately as well.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Look, one of the other announcements that did come out,
well it was actually Friday morning last week, but we're
really you know, we've sort of been going through it
a little bit more throughout this week is the co
responder model for youths, which the Northern Territory Government really
went a bit more into a bit more detail into
in Alice Springs on Friday last week. So essentially at
risk youth found by police on the streets at night

(24:57):
without a responsible adult are going to be taken to
a safe under a new initiative which was announced so
from earlier this week, experienced child protection workers from the
Department of Territory, Families, Housing and Communities will be located
alongside police at the Alla Springs police station and at
a central safe place in Palmerston. Now, when police see

(25:19):
a child on the streets without a responsible adult and
there are concerns for the child's well being, the police
can make contact with the child protection worker and transport
the child to the police station or a safe place.
If they can't quickly locate a responsible adult. Now, the
big questions here, I think are pretty similar to the
ones that we had earlier about the other announcement that

(25:40):
was made yesterday by the Northern Territory government around the
new Territory Safety Division is where are those staff coming
from from territory families. I guess one of the really
big questions is why wasn't this happening already.

Speaker 5 (25:54):
So as a new minister, I've had the opportunity Katie
as alongside Minister Brent Potter to have a look. But
the things that are already in place, the initiatives already
in place, and again, how do we work smarter, not harder.

Speaker 6 (26:06):
How do we make sure that there.

Speaker 5 (26:07):
Are those synergies between territory families and the response to
young people and vulnerable families as well as a police
response and safety of the individual of our community is
absolutely paramount. So we've been talking to our agencies, to
stakeholders and just trying to find a way where we
can better protect the community. And so this is what
the corresponder is. So there is I was very clear

(26:29):
in my interview the other day about the shortage in
my department that is there are shortages and workforces.

Speaker 6 (26:35):
Right around the country, which is really sad.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Many are we We're about.

Speaker 5 (26:38):
Thirty percent department in the department, so as we say,
it is enormous and that's why we continue to look
to recruit and to ensure that we work smarter, not harder,
and so the coresponder model Katie will be looked after
from within. So we have an incredible workforce of child

(27:00):
protection staff within the department and they have finalized the roster.
We have two child protection workers overnight, two who are
a part of the corresponding model, so in the police
station and Alice Springs to receive the custody of the
young child and in the Goida Center Safe Place, which
is a former police station in Palmerston.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
So I'm just trying to go through and find out
what our numbers are within territory families.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
I'm just very quickly having a look vacancies.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
Is it is that what one hundred and thirty hundred
and forty vacancies? What's the number?

Speaker 6 (27:30):
I don't have the number off the top of my head.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
Well, from what I can see from these are from
what I can see from this is from twenty twenty
it looked like there was nine hundred odd staff within
territory families, But I'm just trying to find a more
updated figure.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Just those three hundred, well, it would be a.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Massive number, but I'm just trying to go through and
find that in the annual report and I will try
to do that. But look, you know, however you look
at it, it would have a huge impact by not
having that those full staffing levels. Again though, I'll say
I do think that this is a good idea. I
do think it's a good idea to have Territory Family
stuff on twenty four to seven or there and readily

(28:07):
available to actually assist if there are kids that are
out on the street.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
You know.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
I guess the really big question though from so many
people is like where, you know, what are we doing?
What's the department doing? What is territory families doing? Though,
when you've got a situation where kids are out on
the streets stealing vehicles as we've seen in Alae Springs
for example, ramming police cars is something that we've seen
out of Central Australia, you know a lot of people

(28:34):
saying where, like where are territory families in.

Speaker 5 (28:38):
Those customers and Katie so trying to identify those who
are at risks to offending and supporting them through their
families and other incredible youth service providers to help them out,
you know, stay out of the path to risk and
stay back on track when young people are offending. That
is ensuring that there are plans in places that they
are held to account for their behavior and they have

(28:59):
they to learn right from wrong. It's a really interesting
space to learn more about how an adolescent underdeveloped brain
and ensuring that they received the messages in the education.
It's also supporting families. So territory family's number one goal
should be and should always be, to support families to
parent their children.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
What are sad and that's the thing happening.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Look, I do want to just raise the fact as
well that the age of criminal responsibility. People are still
really pissed off about this, whether you.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Know, whether we want to believe that or not.

Speaker 4 (29:30):
Under that age that's right.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Well, this is the thing.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
But even in the situation and I've referred to it
a few times now, but even in the situation that
we've spoken about last week with the grandma, the eighty
five year old and what she'd been through. Two of
those people were allegedly twelve years old. That's not the
first time that we've heard a situation like that. We
spoke to Leah Bennett earlier in the year and she
had been the victim of, you know, a terrible assault

(29:53):
in our CBD, again at the hands of young girls, allegedly.
You know, I'm I'm telling you now, my kids are
twelve and ten, and they know right from wrong. And
I know that that comes down to the way in
which I'm teaching them and and the way in which
they are you know, they are being held to account.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
And given responsibilities. That's exactly right.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
And I do not pretend that you know that my
children are living the same life as what a young
person in a very different situation may be in. But
we cannot continue to pretend that children do not know
that what they are doing is wrong. If they are
belting someone, it's not okay, and we shouldn't be in

(30:34):
a situation then where you've where you know from my understanding,
and please correct me if I'm wrong, But from my understanding,
it is then a voluntary response or a voluntary program.
If somebody under the age of twelve is committing what
many would deem to be a very serious offense.

Speaker 5 (30:53):
So all young children under the age of eighteen are
followed up through my Department of Territory Families. Because they
are young people. They all must be held to account
for their actions and have the opportunity to learn right
from wrong so they don't end up in the big
house as an adult defender later on. So for those
we did raise the age of criminal responsibility to twelve,
that means that eleven and ten year old's now coming

(31:13):
to the attention and those who are younger are followed
up through the Department of Territory Families. So I understand
and I've heard the rhetoric about we've dropped a young
person home to a responsible adult.

Speaker 6 (31:23):
There's not a full stop after that.

Speaker 5 (31:25):
Territory Families goes out and engages with the family. We
create a safe plan so that we can support the
parents to parent make sure that your young child is
learning right from wrong, and if you need a hand
to do that, we fund some incredible services to be
able to do parenting plans. We can help with referrals too,
so bring up shelters and financial management, all of those.
So we look at a whole suite of issues that

(31:46):
may have led to the offending.

Speaker 6 (31:49):
Of the young person.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
So right now, if a kid does commit in offense,
if they are engaged in let's I don't want to
go into an actual example because I know I'll be
told that you know that we can't, like we can't
go into an individual's case. But let's say that a
kid is involved under the age of twelve in the
assault of a person. Are they then forced into some

(32:11):
kind of program or are they or is it mandatory
or is it optional.

Speaker 5 (32:16):
That's all the things that I'm looking at at the moment.
So all of the questions that you guys are raising,
which is really great, I've already asked them and pose
them to the department.

Speaker 6 (32:23):
As a new minister, my job is to.

Speaker 5 (32:25):
Ensure that there is accountability for the actions of every
young person under eighteen. Where it differs is those that
are under twelve and still in the responsibility and the
guardianship of their parents or caregivers, and so working very
closely to ensure there is an appropriate response. There is
that accountability and the opportunity to learn right from roles.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
So do you think it should be mandatory? If I
do I do do absolutely.

Speaker 7 (32:47):
That's legislation, the Youth Justice Act, and we've spoke about
this before. The Youth Justice Act says it doesn't say
it's mandatory.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
It says.

Speaker 7 (32:54):
The child has to volunteer and the consenting adult or
guardian has to consent to the rehabilitation progib not compulsory.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
But the Youth Justice Act doesn't apply to young people
under twelve because they're not criminally responsible. So the issue is,
you know, we've got to stop beating around the bush.
There's no mandatory program for a child under the age
of twelve years old that's committed the criminal offense. The
government said that they would put in place programs when
they dropped the age of criminal responsibility. The reality is

(33:24):
where are they? We've heard back on track. Look, there's
been family responsibility agreements around for years, and I've often
said this to the government and the former minister. Where
are they? Why aren't they being used? We even got
accused of getting rid of family responsibility agreeants, But as
I pointed out to the Minister a couple of years ago,
she actually had regulations in place preventing them from being

(33:47):
used in remote areas, which she didn't know about, but
the reality is there's no accountability at the moment, no
way to hold anyone accountable for an offense if they're
under the age of twelve.

Speaker 5 (33:57):
I completely disagree with that statement, Steve. So we have
on the right track for offenders who are of criminal age,
and we have on the right track for those who
are under a voluntary or so we have Care and
Protection of Children Act, and that is to ensure that
children are safe and their dat and so our job
is to ensure that we work with the parents and
those who are the guardians of the young people to

(34:20):
ensure that they learn life.

Speaker 6 (34:21):
I'm wrong.

Speaker 5 (34:21):
They are accountable for all of their actions, and we
would love to see these young kids stay out of
the offending pathway so they don't become an eleven year
old who's sent a twelve year old charge for the
same events.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
And I understand all of that, but I do think
the question that Steve is asking is one that the
community really does want to know the answer to are
they voluntary or are they mandatory?

Speaker 5 (34:39):
I understand that they're voluntary at the moment. However, the department,
through their operations and we have some of the most
amazing child protection workers who will make an assessment of
a young child.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Do you actually need to change, do you want that
to change? Do you think it should be managed?

Speaker 5 (34:54):
They're all the questions that I'm looking at, Katie, because
I want to make sure there is a pathway of
accountability for child, including those under twelve. So that's what
I'm looking at very strongly.

Speaker 6 (35:03):
I'm a strong.

Speaker 5 (35:04):
Believer by nature. I don't like telling people how to
live their lives. I don't like that as a nunny
states on my background, you know. So I'm looking at
ways where I can provide two options to people and
say to them, it's not mandatory you get one of
these options, but you'd want to pick the one that
actually helps you, because then you get all the support
of government and agencies, you get the opportunity to say

(35:24):
sorry to those you've offended. I'm really looking at ways
for people to pay for the damage they've caused, willfully caused,
and then learn that and then have a really good
story later on when they're a productive adult. So that's
absolutely stuff I'm looking at Katie's.

Speaker 7 (35:39):
I listened to what Ni is saying, and it would
be good if we lived in an idolistic and real world,
a realistic world, but that reality is we don't and
the fact a lot of these people will choose not
to do the program or their supervising parent adult I
should say adult, whoever that may be may or may
not be interested because the family is already dysfunctional. Well,
and it will be voluntary. I think it goes to

(36:01):
the heart of what the problems are with this governent.
Sometimes people say, oh, you know, we don't have enough money.
And it's not that you don't have enough money, it's
how you allocate the money and direct it to where
it's needed most.

Speaker 4 (36:11):
And it's the same in our prison systems.

Speaker 7 (36:12):
There's no rehabilitation programs pretty much going on in there. Well,
there is some, I shouldn't say that there are some,
but there's nothing that's happening to all the people on remark.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
I do want to give a bit of feedback as well,
though I've had a friend whose son was on the
wrong track. He was absolutely on the wrong track. They've
gotten through it, thankfully, because he does have the support
of his parents, absolutely wonderful people. But what she has
said to me is that she had to fight, kicking
and screaming to be able to get him into any

(36:42):
kind of program because they were not there. There was
not enough places, And if you actually want to get
them into one of those programs, you know, in a
lot of cases, it's a lot harder said than done.
And she said that that is from a parent who
absolutely wanted her child to go through and force their

(37:03):
child through those programs. So then if you are in
a situation where your parents maybe aren't as inclined to
push you down that path, how can we then expect
a kid to go all right, Well, this isn't mandatory,
but I'm going to take that responsibility that I've not
taken previously.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
That's right. And look, and I you know, like, I'm
not saying.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
That the government can fix everything, because there has to
be responsibility from parents taken as well and individuals who
are breaking the law. But I think if we're able
to make it easier, if we've got enough places to
be able to get kids into these programs and to
genuinely try to get them on the right track rather
than just talking about it, I would hope that it

(37:45):
makes a big difference. And I can see that you're
being sincere in what you're saying, Nai, I do think that.
You know, it's pretty clear to me that you are
keen to get stuck in there and try to make
some change. But bloody hell, I hope we can next
year because it's just it's gone too far.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
The reality is there needs to be more focus around
early intervention and prevention and hearing from the police. Minister,
there will be twenty four to seven round the clock
intervention and support through child protection. Look, there's clearly not
enough of this happening. You know. I go back to
the Barkley Regional Deal, and you know the Barkley Regional
Deal was signed back in April twenty nineteen. One of

(38:23):
the initiatives in there was Crisis Youth Support and Safe
Places and Accommodation for young people at risk. Now three
million dollars was allocated to that particular initiative, but when
I ask questions about that estimates, the Minister knew nothing
about it. So this is what I'm getting at. We've
got young children at risk on the streets, and when
I talk about young children on the streets in Chenant Creek,

(38:45):
I'm talking about the impact of liquor restrictions as well.
What we're seeing is the government decided that they'd put
in restrictions from four till sorry, trading ours four till seven.
What's what that's actually doing is pushing people to go home,
take their alcohol home. And when there's adults in the
house drinking from four till seven, where do you reckon?
The kids are what's pushing them out on the street.

(39:05):
So we're seeing unintended consequences coming from government decisions that
are pushing kids out on the street at risk, overcrowded homes.
There's an initiative in the regional deal, three million dollars allocated,
but the government still hasn't touched.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
We are unfortunately going to have to take a really
quick break. You're listening to Mix one O four nine's
three sixty. It is the week that was Gee, there's
been plenty to cover off on this week, and I
do want to ask you all for your take on
the fact that the Northern Territory Opposition leader has now
promised to establish a lobbyist register for the jurisdiction if
elected to government next year. So it does follow on

(39:41):
the pledge does follow on from MLA Mark Turner referring
the Chief Minister Natasha Files to the NT's corruption Watchdog
over her hiring of a political of political consultant with
ties to gas lobbying. So we spoke about this throughout
the week. Mark Turner joined us throughout the week. I
think that this is a fair enough, fair enough point

(40:02):
then for the opposition to make that they're prepared to
establish this lobbyist register.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
What do you make of the situation?

Speaker 3 (40:09):
Oh, I think it's interesting that it's been referred to
the IKAK. You know, what I would say is that, look,
it's before Okay. Now, what I'd like to know is
is the IKACK commissioner going to be investigating this? And
I think there's a couple of issues here. We've heard
estimates this year they're already one point four million dollars
less in their budget from the previous year. So I'd

(40:29):
like to see the KACK commissioner come out now make
a statement is he going to investigate this or isn't he?
I don't think this can go on and on and on. Week.
We still haven't seen the results of the travel roots
from Michael Gunner at the previous election, so that we're
approaching nearly four years of the Michael Gunner travel routs.
Here we are with more issues being referred to the IKAK.

(40:50):
I'd like to see the IKACK Commissioner come out make
a clear statement, yes I am going to investigate this,
or yes I'm not. If he can't investigate it, why
can't he?

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Oh? I think that's a fair point, because otherwise it
can be used as a like as a bit of
a political wedge. You know, no matter no matter what
side of politics you sit on or where you sit
on the political spectrum, you know, if you're unsure if
something's being investigated or if it is being investigated, if
it has been referred, but then no one sort of
knows the outcome she is, you know.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
One point four million dollars less than the previous year.
Does the government want the IKAK to look at corruption
in the Northern territory or allegations of corruption in the
Northern Territory or don't they? I think the commissioner needs
to come out tell us if he's going to investigate
or not. If he hasn't got the resources to do it,
that's going to be an issue as well. But I
think we need to have a clear understanding what's going

(41:39):
on in that ICAC office. Given the number of issues
that have just been referred to him.

Speaker 7 (41:42):
You won't find that out. I find it interesting that.
I mean, Mark Turner could have referred the Chief Minister
of the IK and just not blabbed about it.

Speaker 4 (41:52):
I mean, why do people have to come.

Speaker 7 (41:53):
Out and say, I've referred to you know, the Chief
Minister and some of the others to the KAK for
what clearly seems to be a massive conflict of interest.
So let's assume the IK Commissioner does investigate it.

Speaker 4 (42:03):
I mean, a.

Speaker 7 (42:04):
Pretty average person will work it out. Yeah, he'll come
back and he'll say, yep, how was the man employed?
He was employed this way? Perhaps you missed these kind
of processes. Perhaps you didn't do due diligence. Perhaps your
governmance is not quite right with the staff in your
chievements office. Massive conflict of interest, get it sorted out? Well,
what else is he going to find out?

Speaker 3 (42:21):
You know, like I has he got the resources to
do well?

Speaker 4 (42:24):
That's right?

Speaker 7 (42:24):
I mean how long is it going to take? You know, Look,
everyone's pretty trigger happy. You know, as soon as something
happens wrong within the Chief minister department or the office
or the government whatever, I.

Speaker 4 (42:33):
Got to go to IK.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Politicians are held to a higher stand. You know, we
all have that.

Speaker 7 (42:39):
I have no issue with that, but you know, really
the pressure should be on the Chief Minister, by the
opposition and others, to say, you need to come out
and explain, Chief Meness, exactly why, when and how you
employed this fellow. Did you know that he had this
connection in the business world, did you know that he
was a lobbyist, and if you did, how did you
then manage it within your office? I mean the pressure
should on the Chief Minister to explain.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
I think they're fair points.

Speaker 7 (43:02):
Not to get some other fellow who's already in undated
with complaints from people who are trigger happy sending things.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
To ik Well, I think the pressure is already there.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
There.

Speaker 5 (43:10):
So you know, we did set up that IKAK with
good reason and it's an independent authority who can go
through and investigate any of the referrals that come their way.
And so that's really important, is that independence of the IKAK.
And number two, my understanding is mister Richardson his company
did some work for a gas company that was time limited.

Speaker 6 (43:30):
It's over and done with.

Speaker 5 (43:32):
I'm fully supportive of a lobbyist register if it helps
with scrutiny going forward and territorians get to understand what
a lobbyist register is.

Speaker 6 (43:40):
I'm happy to have a look at you.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Cabinet colleagues agree.

Speaker 6 (43:43):
I haven't spoken to them recently, but it's a conversation.

Speaker 5 (43:46):
I've had previously as sneaker looking forward just again, how
can we add another layer of scrutiny. And I agree
with you, Katie, politicians should be continue to you know,
continue to.

Speaker 6 (43:57):
Be held to a higher account because of the roles
we hold.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
We are going to take a really quick break before
we get ready to wrap up for the morning. You
are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was. What an hour it's
been and has absolutely flown by, and it's been a
massive year. Thank you all so very much for your
time this morning, but also all throughout the year. I
know that well that a few of you are heading off,

(44:20):
of course to the state funeral for Samuel Bush Blenasi today,
so I'll let you all go. Steve Edgington, thank you
very much for your time this morning.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Thanks Katie, it's been great to be here. Thanks for
all the coverage during the year, it's been fantastic and
putting the Barclay back on the map through. Your show
has been terrific.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Thank you much appreciated. Kezia Puric, thank you, heany for
all for your time.

Speaker 7 (44:42):
Yeah, thank you, it's been been fumping in here. I
also want to do a shout out to all us
Christmas babies again. Of course, Christmas babies, BRIANO Gallagher, I
know you're out there, Alderman, Brian Yeah, Fionly Young, Chris
Young's wife, she's a Christmas baby, and of course.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
My mother she's miss Babe.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Happy birthday, Christmas babies, wonderful stuff. I'm on air still
next week, so feel free to call through and give
him a shout out again.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
No Christmas, give us let.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Us know, ni I kid, thank you so much for
your time this morning.

Speaker 5 (45:14):
Thank you Katie, and thank you to your entire team
at Mix. And Merry Christmas to everyone around the territory.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Stay safe absolutely, thank you all.