Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is the week that was Joining us today on
the panel.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
We've got nine News Darwin's Kathleen Gazola morning, good morning.
We've got Steve Edgington here from Tenant Creek or from
the Barkley for estimates and here for the for the supercars.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Morning Katie, and good morning to all the listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Good to see you.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And we've got Lauren Mows, the Minister for a parliament
well fresh off the environmental questioning from estimates last night.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
What time did you finish up on.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
We finished at ten, so I am feeling very fresh
this morning, ready to go.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I'm onto my third coffee, so we'll be right.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
It's just my first one, so hopefully you know you need.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
You've got a bit of catching up to him now.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Look, it's been an incredibly busy week when you look
at what has been going on throughout Parliamentary estimates, and
we know the Opposition leader has said that she's gobsmack
to learn that the former police commissioner's contract payout came
out of the Northern Territory Police budget. The Treasurer even
all directed questions about Jamie Chalker's payout amount to the
policeman and the Office Officer for Public Employment during estimate yesterday,
(01:04):
saying that it's confidential, but Lea fanoki Airo reckons that
using funds from the police bottom line is a blow
for hard working officers, especially during a crime crisis. Let's
have a little bit of a listen to how it
played out in estimates.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Minister, Please, could you tell me where about in the budget, member.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Of Jamie Chalker, Well, that one will be an open
but to know George, that's very early. Ladies and gentlemen
the community. We'll look you thistians.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yep.
Speaker 6 (01:36):
So first of all, there would be a confidentiality agreement
and it's probably a question for the police Minister, but
I would say those sorts of payoffs at of sorts
of funding, those sorts of matters would be probably in
the Office of OCPE budget, but those those matters are.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Confidential and absolutely understand.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
We would like to go downline question. Thank you, thank
you message.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
I don't need your common share marking speciality the opposition
of us.
Speaker 6 (02:04):
I'm sure you understand the importance of confidentiality.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Groom.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
It's around hr matters for public servant.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So that was part of what unfolded during estimates throughout
the week. Now we know that that information was unfortunately
not forthcoming. The situation has, I think you have to
say now thrown the Chief Minister under the bus for
Monday when she sits in the hot seat during estimates. Kathleen,
you were listening to all of that unfolded throughout the week,
It was certainly an interesting scenario.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 7 (02:34):
We've all been wondering what exactly the We all wondered
what exactly was going on with that payment, where it
was coming from, how much it was obviously the rumors
it's a million dollars at minimum kind of thing. So
to learn where exactly it was coming from, I think
did surprise many people, especially given the issues that we've
(02:56):
seen around police, the fears around lack of resources and
that kind of thing. So certainly the opposition would have
been rubbing their hands in glee to be able to
have a crack at the Police minister. And then you
know the Treasurer and the Police Minister have put it
off to the Chief Minister, which doesn't usually happen in
estimates because pastically your first cap off three.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, yeah, well, certainly you know the Chief Minister will
be up on mondays, it'll be interesting to see how
she tackles this very issue. But we're hearing figures of
anywhere between one and two million dollars. So the Treasurer
passed that off to the Police Minister. The Police minisiner
didn't want to talk about it. But the crucial issue
is that it's being hidden from territorians. But what impact
(03:33):
is that going to have on the bottom line when
it comes to policing. We know that crime is an
all time high. I think Michael White confirmed that. He
said that crime is it an all time high in
the Northern Territory. So taking anywhere from a million to
two million dollars off the bottom line could have a
significant impact on the response to crime in the Northern juritory.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I mean, Lauren, from the government's perspective, when you're looking
at a payout that is taxpayers dollars, surely we have
a right to know how much it's going to call store,
how much.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
It has cost.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Look, I think in terms of this matter, you know
obviously the Police Minister, the Treasurer, and I'm sure the
Chief Minister will be clear again that it is a
confidential matter to do with a public servant's employment and
those are generally not matters that you talk about publicly.
And also I think the other thing is that I'm
(04:23):
I believe it's also not in the reporting period, so
it wouldn't necessarily be something that would be going. But
this is what estimates, you know, estimates is to look
at a particular point in time or.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
A particular period and and.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
You know so, but generally we don't talk about the
individual employment matters.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
It's a bit of a cop out, though, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I mean like we're in a situation here where it's
come from the police bottom line, so from their operating budget,
a payout.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
To the former commissioner. I get that. You know when
you when you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
A contract payout that there will indeed be confidentiality clauses,
but for to come out of the police operating budget.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
When then you look at some.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Of those numbers and you know you're talking about the
expenditure of overtime. I'm hoping that I'm reading this correctly,
but eighteen point four million dollars spent on overtime this
financial year to March thirty one. It's an awful lot
of money.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Cody is eighteen point four million on overtime. Taking this
off the bottom line, does that mean that police won't
be available for some callouts during the year given the
impact on the budget. But now the police Minister went
even a bit further and denied any knowledge of the payment.
She denied any knowledge of the sacking. But then again
there was a legal action against her. So there's all
(05:41):
of these things that haven't really been explained to territorians
having legal action against.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Her, which thinks a lot more to it as well. Well,
that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
You would suspect that there has had to be representation
legal fees, So how much is that costing the territory
tax parer? And again I'll say, I understand that there
would be confidentiality CI in place, but you are talking
about taxpayers money.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
We're not talking about monopoly money here.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
And I think when it comes to legal fees, I
think my recollection was we referred to the.
Speaker 8 (06:10):
Source of general.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
So there's more questions to ask about how much all
of this sagara's cost territories.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And look, I don't think that it's going to go
away in a hurry. I know that, Like I know
what you said, Lauren, that it's not within the reporting period.
But I think it's a bit silly for the government
to think that it's now going to disappear. And I
think that this is going to continue to come up
right up until the election next year if we don't
get some kind of idea. But the government's almost in
a situation where damned if you do and damned if
(06:38):
you don't. You know, no matter what figure that is,
people aren't going to be overly happy about it because
the fact of the matter is it was mishandled by
the government, which is why there has had to be
a payout.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
It's been mishandled right from the very start to the
Police Minister and the Chief Minister had legal action taken
against them. They did everything possible to make sure that
they paid out Jamie Chalkers so they didn't have to
go to court. So for the Police Minister to now
deny really any knowledge the fact that she was, I
suppose identified as one of the respondents in that legal case,
(07:15):
she really needs to come clean with Territories and tell
us more about.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
This, Lauren.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Are we in a situation here where no matter what
on Monday, when the Chief Minister fronts up. She's not
going to really be forthcoming with this information.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Look, I'm sure that it will come up on Monday
with the Chief Minister and that you know, she.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
Always is a very good.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Performer in estimates and is you know, I think always
open to having these conversations. We do look at it
a certain period in time. We are looking at as
certain period's figures. It's not unusual that renuneration contract matters
for ces part of their agency budgets.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
That's pretty standard.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
And again but again there are obviously a confident in
dential matter around people's employment.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I have just received a media release from the Northern
Territory Police Association. Now it says that members deserve to
know the extent of the reduction to the operational police
budget to fund former NTI Police Commissioner Jamie Chalkers as
yet undisclosed settlement. The Northern Territory Police Association President Nathan
Finn said it's unacceptable that our members and the public
(08:25):
are being kept in the dark over funds that will
impact the police budget bottom line. Now, he goes on
to say what operational policing needs will be will our
members and the public have to forego because of this decision,
the thin blue line is already stretched beyond breaking point
and the real cost of this payout will be felt
(08:46):
by our police and the community.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
So that is just part of what he has had
to say.
Speaker 7 (08:52):
He al's a good point, yes, that if she's not
aware of how much it was or not involved in that,
and it's come about because of you know, obviously a
falling out, why doesn't it come out of the Department
Public Employment Commissioner's department or something like that.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
You know, how do I know?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Why isn't it a Treasury's advanced Why does it have
to come out the police? Bottom line? Nathan Finn is
exactly right. What impact is this going to have on
the operational budget over the next twelve months? And these
are the questions that need to be out. The government
can't keep hiding from this. We know that the prime
crisis is having a massive impact right around the territory.
People need to be certain. Territorians need to be reassured
(09:33):
that this isn't going to impact on policing services over
the next twelve well.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
And one of the other things that he has outlined
in this pressure release is that another deeply concerning revelation
from estimates is that our members have worked one hundred
and fifty nine thousand hours of overtime in the financial
year to March thirty one. This is an average of
five hundred and eighty hours per day. If you divide
(09:57):
that by an eight hour shift, it means at least
seventy two additional offerses are needed each day to meet
our current demand.
Speaker 7 (10:09):
And as we also heard from a c the Sick
Commissioner Michael White, he said they were obviously talking around
the use of the watchhouses and Darwin Watchhouse remains closed
and essentially least by the Corrections Department because of the
overflow of people within the custody system. He said that
we are reaching the highest level ever of apprehension and
(10:30):
custody numbers. In fact last week as the highest the
Northern Territories ever experienced and it's only continuing to rise,
which provides more risk to anti police and corrections, so
that over time is going to continue to rise.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
They're facing increasing levels of crime, but of course.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
The increasing level of overtime has an impact on the
welfare of police as well. Police can only do so much.
They're on the go every minute of the day, twenty
four hours a day, but when they're doing overtime on
top of that, that impacts on the health and welfare
of police. And I think we heard numbers yesterday that
there was up to two three relic off on rec leave,
(11:08):
summer off, on long term sick leave. Doing that amount
of over time, it has been a continually impact on police.
Clearly there's a shortage of police and I think the
Deputy Commissioner said last year they need an extra three
hundred police because.
Speaker 7 (11:20):
They did have to stop people taking leave during the
COVID period. So now they've got that big backlog of
people making that leave now because they were working around
the clock during the postdemic because they were required. So
that clearing that black clog on top of usual luffers
of people taking leave is exacerbating the problem absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Well, look we are going to have to take a
very short break. You are listening to Mix Onellow four
point nine three sixty. We're coming to you live this
morning from the Darwin Triple Crown Supercars. Well, if you
thought the news that we brought you around the payout
so the Police Commissioner was interesting. A little earlier things
were pretty out of hand by day's end on Wednesday
during Budget East. So I'm sure that some of you
(12:01):
have heard me replay that little bit of audio throughout
the week. But after a long day in the hot seat,
the Treasurer and Minister for Education really lost her cool
when facing questioning from the opposition spokesperson Joe Hersey around the.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Impact of crime on education.
Speaker 8 (12:17):
Take a listen how many school hours have been lost
due to crime either on site or due to not
being able to use the facilities due to damage.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
A member for Catherine, as I said, you know, it
is about time you moved on to something else that
was actually around teaching and learning and something about students.
When people say due respect, I can't stand that because
it means there's absolutely no recable sorry and respect you.
Because I would have thought, as the opposition Achievement for Education,
(12:50):
you would have actually the question just talk about crime.
That's as I said, It's just Minister is a safety
teachers and students.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Put in the naughty fRNA. Indeed, that was pretty wild.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Now I've got to say, you know, like I've had
Evil Lawla on the show plenty of times, I've asked
lots of questions I've never heard her lose a cool.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Like that before, But I you know, I would.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Say that I thought, at best, it was pretty unprofessional.
I don't think that if we're in a meeting, or
if I was conducting an interview and somebody spoke to
me in that way, I would be I'd be pretty annoyed.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I'd be pretty upset by it. But Lauren, you didn't
think it was so bad.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Look, I think I think there was a progression over time.
I obviously watched it as well. I'm I've had the
education portfolio. It's an area that many of us are
very passionate about, and you're never going to find a
more passionate defender of public education than evil lawla and
I think everyone would agree that she is so passionate
(13:57):
about it. Our schools are really safe places. Our schools
are places where there is incredible learning, incredible things going
on every day. And you know, what we saw and
what we continue to see, is a complete lack of
depth from the opposition when they're talking about education. And
(14:17):
it was it was the first probably hour or more,
we didn't even touch on curriculum, we didn't touch on.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
There is a whole few hours that you can cover
on all those absolutely there early on.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
But it does your priorities when you're spending that much
time and.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Starting knowledge about the things that really.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Do you acknowledge though, that for the community, the issue
of crime and the crisis of crime is actually impacting
every facet of everybody's life.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
I don't think that anybody has ever denied that crime
is having an impact on our community and that people
in the community are concerned about crime.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
If you actually listen to estimates and I.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Know you have, Katie, I know you have kat obviously,
Steve and I have been in there.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
We have talked at length about that issue.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
In fact, we talk about those issues all the time
in terms there are many other, many.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Other issues there.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
There are people who have their children in our primary schools,
in our secondary.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
Schools who want to know.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
About outcomes, curriculum engagement, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And so you think that the opposition didn't ask any
questions about that.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
I'm saying it took it takes an awful long time
for them to get there, and then there's very little
depth around those questions. I think that Eva is a
passionate defender of our schools and that you know quite Frankly,
they are really safe places, and they're very safe places
for some kids.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
I don't feel safe at home.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I guess I'll ask the question this way.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Would you think that it was a Would you think
that it would be appropriate for somebody to speak to
you like that if you're in immediate asking questions.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Look, I think it gets hated, and certainly gets hated
in estimates.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
And obviously there.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Was chairing of that meeting, and that chairing was was
appropriate in that moment.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I thought, honestly, I thought he and Joel had to
say it would have been really bad, certainly arguing.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
But it's certainly not an isolated.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
He No, not that entire day.
Speaker 7 (16:19):
Definitely, the tension between the opposition leader and Eva was
palpable from the very second it started at eight point thirty,
and then this time was about after time two o'clock,
so it had been building.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Said, and you've watched both days, I would my assessment, honest,
My honest assessment is, I actually think the opposition leader
it started both days, being quite patronizing too.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
Ministers. I think there's a lot of.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Behavior coming from because look that that behavior is totally inappropriate. Look,
the chair what Joel Bowden. I think he tried to
bring it toward what four or five times and eventually
shut down the broadcast so that that type of behavior
would stop. Now, in an estimate, those questions were entirely
appropriate when you look at some of the things that
(17:07):
have been going on in schools. That first question brought
out a number of issues, And what we brought out
was that there's been eight knife incidents in schools or
reaged weapon incidents in schools. Twenty eight teachers have been
injured this year, three hundred and eighty one students have
been suspended, twenty four hundred and seventy one had behavior incidents,
(17:29):
two hundred and fifteen break ins at schools, costing tax
payers around eight hundred thousand. Now, if this is what
upsets the education minister, I would have thought she'd be
directing her anger at her own cabinet, because they're responsible
for what we're seeing in the community. At the moment,
that type of behavior is flowing on into the schools.
Children learn behavior from other people in the community. Crime
(17:51):
is out of control right across the Northern Territory at
the moment, So I would have thought that anger should
have been directed at a cabinet.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Colleague, and look, I will say that we've seen some
interest interesting performances when it comes to estimates over the years.
I think there's been you know, there was a situation
where one minister couldn't sort of articulate what statehood was
despite being the minister for that was responsible for drag.
(18:17):
I remember there was some interesting performances from Adam Giles
at different times when he was the Chief Minister as well.
But look, for me, I always think how would I
feel if my children saw me behave in that way,
or how would I sort of feel if this was
broadcast on TV or on the radio. And I actually
think Eve is a better person than that.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Then opposition.
Speaker 7 (18:38):
What Lauren said is actually is very passionate about education.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
That is her life's passion.
Speaker 7 (18:42):
She was a teacher for a very long time, principal
within the education department, so it's obviously means very very
much to her. So I can understand her frustration. But
also we can't discount that crime is impacting everyone of
the community and we.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Have lost school.
Speaker 7 (18:58):
We have had lost school because classrooms and schools have
had to be shut down, well because they've been broken.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Parents contact me at the station, concerned about safety.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I think Katie, from what I heard, a number of
texts that you read out on the show clearly indicated
that she went far too far, And I think what
the listeners were saying was that her behavior overall was
quite inappropriate. But the questioning from Joe Hersey was right
on the money, and that's what territories are telling.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Us at the moment.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And one thing I do want to point out, because
I know that a lot of everyday Territorians don't really
realize they don't follow parliament as intently as what Kathleen
and I do, and they're not in there each and
every day. But parliamentary, like the budget estimates process, is
an opportunity that the opposition and the independents get once
a year where they get to question ministers for a
(19:51):
certain period of time, for a couple of hours or
for a few hours.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
On each portfolio.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Now it's up to them as your opposition, as the
government's opposition, to determine what they think is important to.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Territories and what questions to put forward.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So I think it's a bit rich for the government
then to turn around and try to tell the opposition
what they should and shouldn't ask.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
That's not your job. Your job's to answer the questions.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
And we do sit around, we talk about what questions,
but what we're actually basing our questions on is feedback
from the community. We represent a number of constituents right
across the territory and when it comes to crime in schools,
there's clearly a problem in schools at the moment. You know,
is there enough money going into schools to manage behavioral
issues and schools?
Speaker 5 (20:30):
More money going into schools than there was under the CLP.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
There's one hundred at the moment. The government's quite willing
to spend one hundred and sixty million on a new
overpass here in Darwin, but how much of that should
be perhaps going into education.
Speaker 7 (20:43):
Well, I think that estimates you actually get more detail
and actual answers of substance from the government compared to
question times during those usual absolutely law within the chamber.
Estimates is that opportunity to get into the nitty gritty,
and you do find a lot. You know, there's only
so much I can fit into a six PM news
(21:03):
bulletin story, and I might only someone you can touch
on during your show as well.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
There is so much content.
Speaker 7 (21:07):
That does come out of it, and a lot of
questions that also get put on notice when the minister
can't answer them, it's an.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Opportunity to not only ask the question, but to back
that up with further questions, and that doesn't happen in
question times, so it really is an opportunity to really
drill down to what the issues are, and that clearly
upset to Eva. I've seen that sort of behavior, not
to that.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Extent for an apology, do you think for certainly it
is and I think the way that she spoke to
Joe Hersey was clearly inappropriate.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
She should apologize. The listeners clearly commenting on your show,
said it was inappropriate as well. I think the average
person listening to.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
That obviously it's a committee in details stage essentially, there
are rules and standing orders around that, and I think
that that was dealt with in the processed for an
apology for well, look, quite frankly, you know, I'm I'm
hearing what we Yes, we certainly haven't. We've had that
(22:02):
direct to us, and you know, look we have school
students who come in and yes, you're quite right. Sometimes
we go oh, but it does get heated, that's why
we do have standing orders, That's why we do have sharing.
But I will say, you know, and Steve talks about,
you know, our communities and reflecting what our communities are
(22:23):
interested in, teachers and principles, they're also part of our
school communities. I've got brilliant schools in my community, and
I think a lot of them will be really, really
disappointed to know that so much of that conversation was
dominated by you know, essentially, and I will be I
will say, trying to get grabs that you can then
politicize without context, because that does happen as well. Twenty
(22:46):
eight injuries is rubbish and public sentence I hadn't finished yet,
but public servants put in a lot of work so
that we can talk about the breadth of what things across,
you know, across the agency. And yes, the opposition have
the right to ask whatever they want, but.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Think the question or do you think that the budget
estimates should be an opportunity for the opposition to ask
questions about what the government is doing well?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And then I think both? But isn't that your job?
And we do like to actually do that.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
With But I'm what I'm saying is I don't think
that the only priority in education is trying to take
twenty eight injuries of teachers.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
And suggests that that's what to do.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Look, if the government is doing well, why an't they
telling people during the year. Why aren't they putting that
information around what they're actually doing when it comes to estimates,
we're asking the questions that territories want to hear. And
I'm sure that those teachers, twenty eight teachers that have
been a So I think it was only what two
or three years ago a survey suggested that students were
more concerned about their safety rather than doing their exams
(23:57):
that year, So I think I'm.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Not sure that was a Yeah, I can't remember. I
can't remember that survey.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
But I'm not sure people.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Want to know where taxpayers money is going. When there's
eight hundred and eighty thousand dollars spent on break ins
at schools, these are the issues that taxpayers want.
Speaker 7 (24:12):
To I mean, without a doubt, there's always a topic
that's going to be the main focus during estimates, usually
per portfolio. It just happens that this year crime is
across the board, And I mean, it doesn't matter who's
in power who's the opposition. There's always going to be
those game playing as well at what things they want
to focus on, So it doesn't matter who.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Even in previo issues, you know, we've seen like there
has literally been about the level of debt we're in
and things like that, and that's still a concern. But
right now I think that you know, unfortunately, the battle
that the government has got is that crime is such
a dominant issue across the community that it's very easy
for the opposition to actually be able to use that
across every portfolio because it is impacting every portfolio. You know,
(24:51):
it's impacting every area.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
The anger that ever expressed during estimates that issue's angry
about issues around crime. That type of questioning. Take ended
the cabinet, Bring change to the government of the day,
change the laws to fixed crime in the Northern Territory.
Take your anger else.
Speaker 7 (25:07):
With well, telling that the pressure was how high?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Really?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, that is what it seemed like that the government
is under under pressure, and it was it was coming across.
But look, we're going to have to take a very
short break. You are listening to Mix one O four
nine's three sixty. We're coming to you live this morning.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
From the supercars.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Well, and if you've just joined us and you're wondering,
what is that noise in the background, we are coming
to your Live today from the Darwin Triple Crowd, Supercars,
the Indigenous Round. It is all happening out here and
it's been all happening throughout the week. With budget estimates underway,
there has been a lot of information gleaned now, Kathleen,
you've been covering for quite some time the damage out
(25:47):
at Howard Springs, out at the facility out there, as
we had a number of floody vacuees taken out to
Howard Springs to stay out there, quite a significant amount
of damage.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Now you've revealed a few weeks.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Back the volume of windows that needed to be replaced.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Almost seven hundred, almost seven hundred windows.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Now we've got a bit of a clearer idea of
the initial cost.
Speaker 7 (26:10):
Yes, so so far what's been spent is almost three
hundred thousand dollars, so two hundred and eighty eight thousand
something something something, And then obviously we've got the tenders
on top of it to replace the first tranch windows
and then there was like a tender for one hundred windows.
Then a tender for six five hundred windows sorry, the mattresses,
(26:31):
fire extinguishers, the sewage system as well had to be
fixed in certain areas because of nappies and rocks also
left in it. So so far in the reporting period
of estimates, as they say, it was almost three hundred thousand,
So all of those are going to add up. Then
your plus on top of it, there was seventy two
police officers had to be rosted through that center, plus
(26:53):
with private security on top of that, which was more
than a million dollars. Then you had on the other
bits and pieces that have to go with looking after
people there as well.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
It's a huge amount of money, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
And there's sort of been a suggestion, I guess from
the government that you feel as though the CLP is
politicizing this and that you feel as though they know
they're insinuating that people shouldn't have been evacuated and allowed
to stay at Howard Springs.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
But I don't think it's that. I think it's more
at the level of damage, oh definitely.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
And look, the CLP supports, of course, we support evacuation
and what we don't support is damage and cover ups
by the labor government, because right from the very start,
we've had the Chief Minister come out and tell us
that it's been wear and tear, even during estimates. I
think Eva used the word we're in tear four times
whilst we're hearing all of the new figures that we've
(27:43):
had to dig really deep to get those, and it
hasn't been politicized, you know, to hear that there was
seventy two police rotated through there in another.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
One seventy two seventy two.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Police and one point one two million is spent on security.
Even yesterday questioning Cape Loden, we heard that there was
a sobering up shelter there and there was also a
shelter or a safe house for women and children. But
to top it all off, you know, this is the
Minister for Prevention of Family, domestic and Sexual violence. They
(28:13):
weren't even recording the number of people going through the
safe house. So how do you take action when those
statistics aren't even being recorded? And we still and she
wasn't even able to say whether any of those domestic
violence incidents were reported to police even though women and
children were taking shelter in a safe house.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Lauren, do you think that we like that it was
just the wrong location realistically to be a housing families.
You know, when you've got a situation where people are
traveling in you've got families. In some cases, I would imagine,
you know, maybe three kids, two kids, and you're staying
out there at how it springs, and there's people from
various different communities like it just seemed as though it
(28:53):
did not work.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
And look, if you look at other times when we've
had natural pas, that's a cyclone things, and you've got
people who are evacuated to say to showgrounds. You know,
so here you've got a facility. I would say it's
probably be much better facility than evacuating people to the showgrounds.
So government has used the best available facility that we
have access to and management of for evacuees, and I
(29:18):
think that's entirely appropriate. I think what will happen now,
as happens at on the back of any natural disaster,
is that all of those agencies who are involved, and
presumably territory families who let that welfare response, will have
to do a debrief on how that worked and making
sure that those any learnings from that can be implemented
(29:40):
in the future.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
But we are talking about a disaster.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
We are talking about circumstances where police, emergency services, welfare
response have to be stood up really quickly and people
need to be taken to a safe place, and then
there's a whole process about transitioning home that's incredibly difficult,
something we're very used to doing the territory, but we
try and improve that every time.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
And I think Lawrence touched on that there should be
a review of what happened. But even during estimates, Eva
Laula said that she wouldn't do anything differently. But this
is the amazing part about her. She said she wouldn't
do anything differently. But we've just rattled off all of
this damage and seventy two please one point one two.
On security, there's a safe house that's sobing up shelter
(30:21):
which indeed do anything different that hangs. So there needs
to be a full review and of course those findings
should be publicly released so that people can see what
actually happened, what are the findings, and what could be
done differently next time.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Just to be clear, Eva was answering questions that were
relevant to her agency's delivery around z in tower screens,
which is infrastructure and bus service to transport, those elements
of what's going on. So in terms of so what
I'm saying, Steve, when you say Eva's saying she wouldn't
do anything differently, Eva is not Eva's department.
Speaker 5 (30:53):
It was not the department who.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Were collborating the welfare response. There's always a deep brief,
there's always a review of what happens in these circumstances, as.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
There should be, and I think there absolutely needs to be.
One of the things so that I'm keen to touch
on is I know the Treasurer had said that the
total cost of the budget with damage that damage was
two hundred and eighty eight thousand dollars as you've gone
through there just a moment ago for as Kathleen. But
despite that, there has been no police charges. So there's like,
it's obvious to me that there's been criminal damage if
(31:25):
we'd be honest about such a huge volume of From
the questioning to Kate yesterday in regards to those police charges, I.
Speaker 7 (31:33):
Really didn't get much of an impression that anyone's going
to be found to be because she was very very
set on the wording if evidence is found, So unless
someone is caught on camera, and the proof is there
of seeing them smashing something up using the fire extinguishers,
ripping up mattresses or whatever. Whether charges are going to
(31:55):
flow or not is a big question. I wasn't really
convinced there would be any To be honest with you.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Is that I break.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I'm astounded that no charges have been laid for that
amount of damage, the amount of replacement windows up to
five hundred and seventy odd windows.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
One hundred and seventy, six hundred and seventy.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
So to find that there's no charges being laid at
this stage when we had seventy two police rotating through
there obviously a number of security people. When you spend
one point one two million just on security, somebody must
have seen something. Now to investigate that matter, a lot
of questions need to be asked, and I'm sure that
a thorough investigation would get.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
To the bottom.
Speaker 7 (32:31):
And I'd had you bet that predominantly most of the
damage was caused by kids throwing rocks, and so you'd
think maybe those kids might be too young to face
charges and perhaps have to go through diversion or get
the warning system whatever that may.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Now, I don't know, but it's Look, I don't think
that it bodes well to the community. You know, like
people are sort of going, hang on a second, there's
a huge amount of damage there, It's a significant amount
of money, and how is there nobody then responsible for us?
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Well, look, I mean police will have to investigate criminal
matters and so you know, yes, there will have to
be evidence to be able to charge somebody with a crime.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
That's how it seems so, but.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
It's sort of based on what the government.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Says are doing that work.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I guess it seems so based on what the government's
saying through questioning and also even just what you've said
then that it doesn't seem like the government thinks it's
a criminal matter. It seems so you guys do genuinely
think it's where and.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Tee it seems to we're being brushed off. And look,
the government had a duty of care to keep people safe.
They had a duty to spend taxpayers money responsibly. They've
clearly failed.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
At both of them.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
I think that where I think that actually would have
been really clear that where criminal damage has occurred, we
expect that to be thoroughly investigated and that people will
be held responsible.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
So that's about a directive to the police.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
Police act on criminal matters, that's what.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
They do, and there needs to be a report. So
the real question is has the responsible minister reported that
to the police. Is there a formal complaint about the damage,
what investigation is being done and when will we see
the outcome?
Speaker 7 (34:04):
Essentially, yeah, the police Minister said there's needs to be
a complainant, which is someone obviously going to police and
making a complaint of something happening, which in this circumstance
is the Infrastructure Department is tipple.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
We'll have to They're.
Speaker 7 (34:17):
Obviously doing the construction assessment at the moment, which will
tally up the exact cost of what is needed and
perhaps once they have that information then go to police
and say we've had this much damage.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Investigating if they're not already.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
But the important thing is that assessment still underway. There's
likely to be more damage identified. Look, I've heard stories,
it's anecdotal, but I'm hearing that there's damage to air
conditioning as well.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, well, let's wait and see exactly what the situation is.
We are going to have to take a very short
break when we come back. I'm still keen to have
a quick look at the code yellow at the hospital,
but also that train derailment and a bit of an
update on that situation. You are listening to Mix one
O four point nine three sixty. We are indeed coming
to you live this morning from the Supercars. You are
(35:00):
indeed listening to the week that was, and we are
coming to you live this morning from the supercars. It's
all happening at the Darwin Triple Crown Supercars, the Indigenous
Round underway, and well, there has been so much to
cover off on this week and throughout everything going on.
With estimates, there probably hasn't been as much coverage of
the code yellow at the hospital as what there ordinarily
(35:22):
would be. So the code yellow was called on Wednesday
for Royal Darwin and Palmerston Hospital due to a peak
in hospital demand following a steady increase of patient admissions.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Now we'd caught up.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
With Cat Hatcher from the Nursing Ambigwiffree Union a little
earlier this week and she had explained to us that
for a lot of the nurses out there, you know,
they're actually quite okay when the code yellow is called,
because it means that it's all hands on deck everybody
is there able to help each other and really get
stuck into helping patients. But she also really revealed to
(35:54):
us that the last code yellow it only lifted I
think on the sixth of June, so we've really only
been out of the yellow.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
For a small period of time before we're back.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Into the next one, which you know, does demonstrate that
there are issues with staffing, as she had touched on,
and we know that that's a nationwide thing, but certainly
for us here in the territory, we're feeling the impacts
of that. And fundamentally, you know, people want to be
able to know that if they need to see, you know,
if they need to head into the hospital, that they're
(36:22):
going to be able to see who they need to
which I think, you know, we all know and understand
that our healthcare professionals do a phenomenal job in ensuring
that that happens.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
But gee, it's a lot of stress.
Speaker 7 (36:33):
And at the hospitals, and it is becoming so regular
that we do see this. Obviously you touched on it,
it only o being lifted about a week ago. I mean,
in this circumstance, they did say elective surgeries hadn't been
deferred at this time, which is a big part of
Usually the code yellows, those elective surgeries get pushed back
until they can get everything under control, which isn't great
for those people who have those chronic pain that are
(36:55):
trying to get fixed or having to wait again and again,
which we already know the wait list is so long
as it is, so it will be very interesting to
see the Health Minister, the Chief Minister be confronted with
these questions on Monday, because she wouldn't have had those
if she had been first cap up the rank when
she gets back from landing.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
I understand in this in this case that the elective
surgeries haven't been defended. Heyah so, and you know, I
think Cat's right. Obviously, when there's a Code yellow, there's
different measures that kick in that are around patient flow,
and they do they get on with it and they
do an absolutely phenomenal job. There's obviously a twenty five
(37:33):
million dollar investment in that thirty two bed multipurpose ord
as well, which I think is going to be welcomed.
There's mental health infrastructure that will be coming online as well,
which will help with that patient flow out of the
ED and the life for the aged care, Yeah, the
age care, and also the things like the corresponder model
where we've got clinicians going out with first responders to
(37:57):
help try and divert some of those triple zero around
mental health distress away from the ED. These are all
things that have to continue to work together and help lift.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Those Sure Baty, what we're seeing is clearly a health
system in crisis at the moment. This is the tenth
Code yellow since February twenty twenty one. So not only
have we seen Code yellows in Darwin and Palmerston, but
the whole health system in places like Catherine TenneT Creek
and Alice Springs is under a lot of pressure as well.
It was only eighteen months ago the Chief Minister couldn't
(38:26):
tell us how many vacancies there were in the hospitals.
Now that's very worrying and it says to me that
the Chief Minister has clearly lost control of the health system.
It might be time for her to think about putting
a different minister in charge of health because as the
Chief Minister, there's a big workload that goes with that.
She's clearly lost control of the health system at the
moment and it's not working what she's doing.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
At the moment.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
I think she's been an incredible health minister. She's actually
probably the longest serving health mist in the country too,
very very experienced.
Speaker 7 (38:58):
A personal passion in it as well, given her experience
give family having to be involved with it. I mean
this crist and have been going on for it. It
definitely has been going on for.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
A long time.
Speaker 7 (39:07):
And we've heard those things that are being put in
place to improve it.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
So should those have happened sooner?
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Well, so it's clearly time for change that the Health Minister,
you know, the Chief Minister has been there far too long.
It's time to look at reinvigorating the have you.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Been anointed the shadow Health wasn't really.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Fantastic respon.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
We are just going to have to move along because
I do just want to give our listeners a bit
of an update on the trail train derailment. As we
know emergency services earlier in the week we're responding to
that trained derailment in Cossack. Now I think we've probably
all seen the photos now it was extensive and you know,
a huge shout out I think goes to our frontline
services our fieries, our emergency services, our police, everybody involved
(39:57):
in making sure that you know that things got under
control as quickly as they did.
Speaker 7 (40:01):
And it could have been a very nasty I personally,
after seeing what happened in the Hunter Valley over that weekend,
something like that with a crane and a truck, a
train and a truck could end.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
In just catastrophic disaster as well.
Speaker 7 (40:16):
So it was incredible that people stuff at injuries, which
isn't great of course, and I believe that they recovered life.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
I'm just glad we've got fully trained people that can
respond to these. You know, our frontline workers, I believe
are the best in the country, and I think when
it comes to you know, these, this is a real
disaster and I think just trying to clean up first
responders on the scene. I'm glad that there was no
serious injuries that I've heard of at the marment, but
it could have been a lot worse.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
And I tell you what, I think for a lot
of a lot of people, they would have heard Joshua Fisher,
from the Deputy Chief Fire Officer on the show yesterday
detailing just how significant that response was from our frontline
services and It is incredible the way that they mobilized
and had the support right across the board to be
able to do that. But just a little bit of
(41:02):
an update, so we know now from the suppliers of
the supermarket suppliers, basically new supplies of food were delivered
into Catherine yesterday afternoon by train, and trucks transported supplies
later in the day into Darwin.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
So by the look of it, the.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Detachment of those wagons and removal of containers on the
train that's happened, removal of well, basically that recovery work
is also going to include the removal of damaged locomotives
and wagons, bikrane and heavy equipment.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
At this stage, it's looking as though.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Those track repairs to be completed and the rail service
is expected to recommence by late Saturday, pending any unforeseen issues.
Speaker 7 (41:44):
So amazing how fast they're able to work. And I mean,
we've heard through all the things about developing the North,
those supply links are so vital to be able to
do that. Obviously around the defense stuff, and it was
highlighted as a weakness for hours, but just the fact
that they've been able to say that they'll be cleared
and ready to go by the end of Saturday on
(42:04):
the road.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
And yeah, everybody's just clicking number exactly.
Speaker 5 (42:09):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Really, congratulations to all the responders, and look, I just
want to thank them for the work that they do
every day of the week and this is just another
example of how good our first responders are.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Absolutely well, that is it for the week that was.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
This morning nine News Darwin's Kathleen Gazola, thank you for
your time today. Steve Eedgington from the colp are here
from the Barklays, Thanks.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
For your time this morning. Good to have you on
the show.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Lauren Moss all the way from Cash Arena, thank you
this morning. Are we going to catch you doing a
hot lap later?
Speaker 5 (42:39):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (42:39):
Look, probably not, but I will be here over the
weekend enjoying I'd look, I do, enjoyment of the
Speaker 5 (42:50):
Love it atmosphere is grain
It is the week that was Joining us today on
the panel.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
We've got nine News Darwin's Kathleen Gazola morning, good morning.
We've got Steve Edgington here from Tenant Creek or from
the Barkley for estimates and here for the for the supercars.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Morning Katie, and good morning to all the listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Good to see you.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And we've got Lauren Mows, the Minister for a parliament
well fresh off the environmental questioning from estimates last night.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
What time did you finish up on.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
We finished at ten, so I am feeling very fresh
this morning, ready to go.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I'm onto my third coffee, so we'll be right.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
It's just my first one, so hopefully you know you need.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
You've got a bit of catching up to him now.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Look, it's been an incredibly busy week when you look
at what has been going on throughout Parliamentary estimates, and
we know the Opposition leader has said that she's gobsmack
to learn that the former police commissioner's contract payout came
out of the Northern Territory Police budget. The Treasurer even
all directed questions about Jamie Chalker's payout amount to the
policeman and the Office Officer for Public Employment during estimate yesterday,
(01:04):
saying that it's confidential, but Lea fanoki Airo reckons that
using funds from the police bottom line is a blow
for hard working officers, especially during a crime crisis. Let's
have a little bit of a listen to how it
played out in estimates.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Minister, Please, could you tell me where about in the budget, member.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Of Jamie Chalker, Well, that one will be an open
but to know George, that's very early. Ladies and gentlemen
the community. We'll look you thistians.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yep.
Speaker 6 (01:36):
So first of all, there would be a confidentiality agreement
and it's probably a question for the police Minister, but
I would say those sorts of payoffs at of sorts
of funding, those sorts of matters would be probably in
the Office of OCPE budget, but those those matters are.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Confidential and absolutely understand.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
We would like to go downline question. Thank you, thank
you message.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
I don't need your common share marking speciality the opposition
of us.
Speaker 6 (02:04):
I'm sure you understand the importance of confidentiality.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Groom.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
It's around hr matters for public servant.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So that was part of what unfolded during estimates throughout
the week. Now we know that that information was unfortunately
not forthcoming. The situation has, I think you have to
say now thrown the Chief Minister under the bus for
Monday when she sits in the hot seat during estimates. Kathleen,
you were listening to all of that unfolded throughout the week,
It was certainly an interesting scenario.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 7 (02:34):
We've all been wondering what exactly the We all wondered
what exactly was going on with that payment, where it
was coming from, how much it was obviously the rumors
it's a million dollars at minimum kind of thing. So
to learn where exactly it was coming from, I think
did surprise many people, especially given the issues that we've
(02:56):
seen around police, the fears around lack of resources and
that kind of thing. So certainly the opposition would have
been rubbing their hands in glee to be able to
have a crack at the Police minister. And then you
know the Treasurer and the Police Minister have put it
off to the Chief Minister, which doesn't usually happen in
estimates because pastically your first cap off three.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, yeah, well, certainly you know the Chief Minister will
be up on mondays, it'll be interesting to see how
she tackles this very issue. But we're hearing figures of
anywhere between one and two million dollars. So the Treasurer
passed that off to the Police Minister. The Police minisiner
didn't want to talk about it. But the crucial issue
is that it's being hidden from territorians. But what impact
(03:33):
is that going to have on the bottom line when
it comes to policing. We know that crime is an
all time high. I think Michael White confirmed that. He
said that crime is it an all time high in
the Northern Territory. So taking anywhere from a million to
two million dollars off the bottom line could have a
significant impact on the response to crime in the Northern juritory.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I mean, Lauren, from the government's perspective, when you're looking
at a payout that is taxpayers dollars, surely we have
a right to know how much it's going to call store,
how much.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
It has cost.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Look, I think in terms of this matter, you know
obviously the Police Minister, the Treasurer, and I'm sure the
Chief Minister will be clear again that it is a
confidential matter to do with a public servant's employment and
those are generally not matters that you talk about publicly.
And also I think the other thing is that I'm
(04:23):
I believe it's also not in the reporting period, so
it wouldn't necessarily be something that would be going. But
this is what estimates, you know, estimates is to look
at a particular point in time or.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
A particular period and and.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
You know so, but generally we don't talk about the
individual employment matters.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
It's a bit of a cop out, though, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I mean like we're in a situation here where it's
come from the police bottom line, so from their operating budget,
a payout.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
To the former commissioner. I get that. You know when
you when you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
A contract payout that there will indeed be confidentiality clauses,
but for to come out of the police operating budget.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
When then you look at some.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Of those numbers and you know you're talking about the
expenditure of overtime. I'm hoping that I'm reading this correctly,
but eighteen point four million dollars spent on overtime this
financial year to March thirty one. It's an awful lot
of money.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Cody is eighteen point four million on overtime. Taking this
off the bottom line, does that mean that police won't
be available for some callouts during the year given the
impact on the budget. But now the police Minister went
even a bit further and denied any knowledge of the payment.
She denied any knowledge of the sacking. But then again
there was a legal action against her. So there's all
(05:41):
of these things that haven't really been explained to territorians
having legal action against.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Her, which thinks a lot more to it as well. Well,
that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
You would suspect that there has had to be representation
legal fees, So how much is that costing the territory
tax parer? And again I'll say, I understand that there
would be confidentiality CI in place, but you are talking
about taxpayers money.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
We're not talking about monopoly money here.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
And I think when it comes to legal fees, I
think my recollection was we referred to the.
Speaker 8 (06:10):
Source of general.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
So there's more questions to ask about how much all
of this sagara's cost territories.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And look, I don't think that it's going to go
away in a hurry. I know that, Like I know
what you said, Lauren, that it's not within the reporting period.
But I think it's a bit silly for the government
to think that it's now going to disappear. And I
think that this is going to continue to come up
right up until the election next year if we don't
get some kind of idea. But the government's almost in
a situation where damned if you do and damned if
(06:38):
you don't. You know, no matter what figure that is,
people aren't going to be overly happy about it because
the fact of the matter is it was mishandled by
the government, which is why there has had to be
a payout.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
It's been mishandled right from the very start to the
Police Minister and the Chief Minister had legal action taken
against them. They did everything possible to make sure that
they paid out Jamie Chalkers so they didn't have to
go to court. So for the Police Minister to now
deny really any knowledge the fact that she was, I
suppose identified as one of the respondents in that legal case,
(07:15):
she really needs to come clean with Territories and tell
us more about.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
This, Lauren.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Are we in a situation here where no matter what
on Monday, when the Chief Minister fronts up. She's not
going to really be forthcoming with this information.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Look, I'm sure that it will come up on Monday
with the Chief Minister and that you know, she.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
Always is a very good.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Performer in estimates and is you know, I think always
open to having these conversations. We do look at it
a certain period in time. We are looking at as
certain period's figures. It's not unusual that renuneration contract matters
for ces part of their agency budgets.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
That's pretty standard.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
And again but again there are obviously a confident in
dential matter around people's employment.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I have just received a media release from the Northern
Territory Police Association. Now it says that members deserve to
know the extent of the reduction to the operational police
budget to fund former NTI Police Commissioner Jamie Chalkers as
yet undisclosed settlement. The Northern Territory Police Association President Nathan
Finn said it's unacceptable that our members and the public
(08:25):
are being kept in the dark over funds that will
impact the police budget bottom line. Now, he goes on
to say what operational policing needs will be will our
members and the public have to forego because of this decision,
the thin blue line is already stretched beyond breaking point
and the real cost of this payout will be felt
(08:46):
by our police and the community.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
So that is just part of what he has had
to say.
Speaker 7 (08:52):
He al's a good point, yes, that if she's not
aware of how much it was or not involved in that,
and it's come about because of you know, obviously a
falling out, why doesn't it come out of the Department
Public Employment Commissioner's department or something like that.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
You know, how do I know?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Why isn't it a Treasury's advanced Why does it have
to come out the police? Bottom line? Nathan Finn is
exactly right. What impact is this going to have on
the operational budget over the next twelve months? And these
are the questions that need to be out. The government
can't keep hiding from this. We know that the prime
crisis is having a massive impact right around the territory.
People need to be certain. Territorians need to be reassured
(09:33):
that this isn't going to impact on policing services over
the next twelve well.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
And one of the other things that he has outlined
in this pressure release is that another deeply concerning revelation
from estimates is that our members have worked one hundred
and fifty nine thousand hours of overtime in the financial
year to March thirty one. This is an average of
five hundred and eighty hours per day. If you divide
(09:57):
that by an eight hour shift, it means at least
seventy two additional offerses are needed each day to meet
our current demand.
Speaker 7 (10:09):
And as we also heard from a c the Sick
Commissioner Michael White, he said they were obviously talking around
the use of the watchhouses and Darwin Watchhouse remains closed
and essentially least by the Corrections Department because of the
overflow of people within the custody system. He said that
we are reaching the highest level ever of apprehension and
(10:30):
custody numbers. In fact last week as the highest the
Northern Territories ever experienced and it's only continuing to rise,
which provides more risk to anti police and corrections, so
that over time is going to continue to rise.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
They're facing increasing levels of crime, but of course.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
The increasing level of overtime has an impact on the
welfare of police as well. Police can only do so much.
They're on the go every minute of the day, twenty
four hours a day, but when they're doing overtime on
top of that, that impacts on the health and welfare
of police. And I think we heard numbers yesterday that
there was up to two three relic off on rec leave,
(11:08):
summer off, on long term sick leave. Doing that amount
of over time, it has been a continually impact on police.
Clearly there's a shortage of police and I think the
Deputy Commissioner said last year they need an extra three
hundred police because.
Speaker 7 (11:20):
They did have to stop people taking leave during the
COVID period. So now they've got that big backlog of
people making that leave now because they were working around
the clock during the postdemic because they were required. So
that clearing that black clog on top of usual luffers
of people taking leave is exacerbating the problem absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Well, look we are going to have to take a
very short break. You are listening to Mix Onellow four
point nine three sixty. We're coming to you live this
morning from the Darwin Triple Crown Supercars. Well, if you
thought the news that we brought you around the payout
so the Police Commissioner was interesting. A little earlier things
were pretty out of hand by day's end on Wednesday
during Budget East. So I'm sure that some of you
(12:01):
have heard me replay that little bit of audio throughout
the week. But after a long day in the hot seat,
the Treasurer and Minister for Education really lost her cool
when facing questioning from the opposition spokesperson Joe Hersey around the.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Impact of crime on education.
Speaker 8 (12:17):
Take a listen how many school hours have been lost
due to crime either on site or due to not
being able to use the facilities due to damage.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
A member for Catherine, as I said, you know, it
is about time you moved on to something else that
was actually around teaching and learning and something about students.
When people say due respect, I can't stand that because
it means there's absolutely no recable sorry and respect you.
Because I would have thought, as the opposition Achievement for Education,
(12:50):
you would have actually the question just talk about crime.
That's as I said, It's just Minister is a safety
teachers and students.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Put in the naughty fRNA. Indeed, that was pretty wild.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Now I've got to say, you know, like I've had
Evil Lawla on the show plenty of times, I've asked
lots of questions I've never heard her lose a cool.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Like that before, But I you know, I would.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Say that I thought, at best, it was pretty unprofessional.
I don't think that if we're in a meeting, or
if I was conducting an interview and somebody spoke to
me in that way, I would be I'd be pretty annoyed.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I'd be pretty upset by it. But Lauren, you didn't
think it was so bad.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Look, I think I think there was a progression over time.
I obviously watched it as well. I'm I've had the
education portfolio. It's an area that many of us are
very passionate about, and you're never going to find a
more passionate defender of public education than evil lawla and
I think everyone would agree that she is so passionate
(13:57):
about it. Our schools are really safe places. Our schools
are places where there is incredible learning, incredible things going
on every day. And you know, what we saw and
what we continue to see, is a complete lack of
depth from the opposition when they're talking about education. And
(14:17):
it was it was the first probably hour or more,
we didn't even touch on curriculum, we didn't touch on.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
There is a whole few hours that you can cover
on all those absolutely there early on.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
But it does your priorities when you're spending that much
time and.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Starting knowledge about the things that really.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Do you acknowledge though, that for the community, the issue
of crime and the crisis of crime is actually impacting
every facet of everybody's life.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
I don't think that anybody has ever denied that crime
is having an impact on our community and that people
in the community are concerned about crime.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
If you actually listen to estimates and I.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Know you have, Katie, I know you have kat obviously,
Steve and I have been in there.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
We have talked at length about that issue.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
In fact, we talk about those issues all the time
in terms there are many other, many.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Other issues there.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
There are people who have their children in our primary schools,
in our secondary.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
Schools who want to know.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
About outcomes, curriculum engagement, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And so you think that the opposition didn't ask any
questions about that.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
I'm saying it took it takes an awful long time
for them to get there, and then there's very little
depth around those questions. I think that Eva is a
passionate defender of our schools and that you know quite Frankly,
they are really safe places, and they're very safe places
for some kids.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
I don't feel safe at home.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I guess I'll ask the question this way.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Would you think that it was a Would you think
that it would be appropriate for somebody to speak to
you like that if you're in immediate asking questions.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Look, I think it gets hated, and certainly gets hated
in estimates.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
And obviously there.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Was chairing of that meeting, and that chairing was was
appropriate in that moment.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I thought, honestly, I thought he and Joel had to
say it would have been really bad, certainly arguing.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
But it's certainly not an isolated.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
He No, not that entire day.
Speaker 7 (16:19):
Definitely, the tension between the opposition leader and Eva was
palpable from the very second it started at eight point thirty,
and then this time was about after time two o'clock,
so it had been building.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Said, and you've watched both days, I would my assessment, honest,
My honest assessment is, I actually think the opposition leader
it started both days, being quite patronizing too.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
Ministers. I think there's a lot of.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Behavior coming from because look that that behavior is totally inappropriate. Look,
the chair what Joel Bowden. I think he tried to
bring it toward what four or five times and eventually
shut down the broadcast so that that type of behavior
would stop. Now, in an estimate, those questions were entirely
appropriate when you look at some of the things that
(17:07):
have been going on in schools. That first question brought
out a number of issues, And what we brought out
was that there's been eight knife incidents in schools or
reaged weapon incidents in schools. Twenty eight teachers have been
injured this year, three hundred and eighty one students have
been suspended, twenty four hundred and seventy one had behavior incidents,
(17:29):
two hundred and fifteen break ins at schools, costing tax
payers around eight hundred thousand. Now, if this is what
upsets the education minister, I would have thought she'd be
directing her anger at her own cabinet, because they're responsible
for what we're seeing in the community. At the moment,
that type of behavior is flowing on into the schools.
Children learn behavior from other people in the community. Crime
(17:51):
is out of control right across the Northern Territory at
the moment, So I would have thought that anger should
have been directed at a cabinet.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Colleague, and look, I will say that we've seen some
interest interesting performances when it comes to estimates over the years.
I think there's been you know, there was a situation
where one minister couldn't sort of articulate what statehood was
despite being the minister for that was responsible for drag.
(18:17):
I remember there was some interesting performances from Adam Giles
at different times when he was the Chief Minister as well.
But look, for me, I always think how would I
feel if my children saw me behave in that way,
or how would I sort of feel if this was
broadcast on TV or on the radio. And I actually
think Eve is a better person than that.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Then opposition.
Speaker 7 (18:38):
What Lauren said is actually is very passionate about education.
Speaker 5 (18:41):
That is her life's passion.
Speaker 7 (18:42):
She was a teacher for a very long time, principal
within the education department, so it's obviously means very very
much to her. So I can understand her frustration. But
also we can't discount that crime is impacting everyone of
the community and we.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Have lost school.
Speaker 7 (18:58):
We have had lost school because classrooms and schools have
had to be shut down, well because they've been broken.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Parents contact me at the station, concerned about safety.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I think Katie, from what I heard, a number of
texts that you read out on the show clearly indicated
that she went far too far, And I think what
the listeners were saying was that her behavior overall was
quite inappropriate. But the questioning from Joe Hersey was right
on the money, and that's what territories are telling.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Us at the moment.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And one thing I do want to point out, because
I know that a lot of everyday Territorians don't really
realize they don't follow parliament as intently as what Kathleen
and I do, and they're not in there each and
every day. But parliamentary, like the budget estimates process, is
an opportunity that the opposition and the independents get once
a year where they get to question ministers for a
(19:51):
certain period of time, for a couple of hours or
for a few hours.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
On each portfolio.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Now it's up to them as your opposition, as the
government's opposition, to determine what they think is important to.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Territories and what questions to put forward.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So I think it's a bit rich for the government
then to turn around and try to tell the opposition
what they should and shouldn't ask.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
That's not your job. Your job's to answer the questions.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
And we do sit around, we talk about what questions,
but what we're actually basing our questions on is feedback
from the community. We represent a number of constituents right
across the territory and when it comes to crime in schools,
there's clearly a problem in schools at the moment. You know,
is there enough money going into schools to manage behavioral
issues and schools?
Speaker 5 (20:30):
More money going into schools than there was under the CLP.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
There's one hundred at the moment. The government's quite willing
to spend one hundred and sixty million on a new
overpass here in Darwin, but how much of that should
be perhaps going into education.
Speaker 7 (20:43):
Well, I think that estimates you actually get more detail
and actual answers of substance from the government compared to
question times during those usual absolutely law within the chamber.
Estimates is that opportunity to get into the nitty gritty,
and you do find a lot. You know, there's only
so much I can fit into a six PM news
(21:03):
bulletin story, and I might only someone you can touch
on during your show as well.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
There is so much content.
Speaker 7 (21:07):
That does come out of it, and a lot of
questions that also get put on notice when the minister
can't answer them, it's an.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Opportunity to not only ask the question, but to back
that up with further questions, and that doesn't happen in
question times, so it really is an opportunity to really
drill down to what the issues are, and that clearly
upset to Eva. I've seen that sort of behavior, not
to that.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Extent for an apology, do you think for certainly it
is and I think the way that she spoke to
Joe Hersey was clearly inappropriate.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
She should apologize. The listeners clearly commenting on your show,
said it was inappropriate as well. I think the average
person listening to.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
That obviously it's a committee in details stage essentially, there
are rules and standing orders around that, and I think
that that was dealt with in the processed for an
apology for well, look, quite frankly, you know, I'm I'm
hearing what we Yes, we certainly haven't. We've had that
(22:02):
direct to us, and you know, look we have school
students who come in and yes, you're quite right. Sometimes
we go oh, but it does get heated, that's why
we do have standing orders, That's why we do have sharing.
But I will say, you know, and Steve talks about,
you know, our communities and reflecting what our communities are
(22:23):
interested in, teachers and principles, they're also part of our
school communities. I've got brilliant schools in my community, and
I think a lot of them will be really, really
disappointed to know that so much of that conversation was
dominated by you know, essentially, and I will be I
will say, trying to get grabs that you can then
politicize without context, because that does happen as well. Twenty
(22:46):
eight injuries is rubbish and public sentence I hadn't finished yet,
but public servants put in a lot of work so
that we can talk about the breadth of what things across,
you know, across the agency. And yes, the opposition have
the right to ask whatever they want, but.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Think the question or do you think that the budget
estimates should be an opportunity for the opposition to ask
questions about what the government is doing well?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And then I think both? But isn't that your job?
And we do like to actually do that.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
With But I'm what I'm saying is I don't think
that the only priority in education is trying to take
twenty eight injuries of teachers.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
And suggests that that's what to do.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Look, if the government is doing well, why an't they
telling people during the year. Why aren't they putting that
information around what they're actually doing when it comes to estimates,
we're asking the questions that territories want to hear. And
I'm sure that those teachers, twenty eight teachers that have
been a So I think it was only what two
or three years ago a survey suggested that students were
more concerned about their safety rather than doing their exams
(23:57):
that year, So I think I'm.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Not sure that was a Yeah, I can't remember. I
can't remember that survey.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
But I'm not sure people.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Want to know where taxpayers money is going. When there's
eight hundred and eighty thousand dollars spent on break ins
at schools, these are the issues that taxpayers want.
Speaker 7 (24:12):
To I mean, without a doubt, there's always a topic
that's going to be the main focus during estimates, usually
per portfolio. It just happens that this year crime is
across the board, And I mean, it doesn't matter who's
in power who's the opposition. There's always going to be
those game playing as well at what things they want
to focus on, So it doesn't matter who.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Even in previo issues, you know, we've seen like there
has literally been about the level of debt we're in
and things like that, and that's still a concern. But
right now I think that you know, unfortunately, the battle
that the government has got is that crime is such
a dominant issue across the community that it's very easy
for the opposition to actually be able to use that
across every portfolio because it is impacting every portfolio. You know,
(24:51):
it's impacting every area.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
The anger that ever expressed during estimates that issue's angry
about issues around crime. That type of questioning. Take ended
the cabinet, Bring change to the government of the day,
change the laws to fixed crime in the Northern Territory.
Take your anger else.
Speaker 7 (25:07):
With well, telling that the pressure was how high?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Really?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, that is what it seemed like that the government
is under under pressure, and it was it was coming across.
But look, we're going to have to take a very
short break. You are listening to Mix one O four
nine's three sixty. We're coming to you live this morning.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
From the supercars.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Well, and if you've just joined us and you're wondering,
what is that noise in the background, we are coming
to your Live today from the Darwin Triple Crowd, Supercars,
the Indigenous Round. It is all happening out here and
it's been all happening throughout the week. With budget estimates underway,
there has been a lot of information gleaned now, Kathleen,
you've been covering for quite some time the damage out
(25:47):
at Howard Springs, out at the facility out there, as
we had a number of floody vacuees taken out to
Howard Springs to stay out there, quite a significant amount
of damage.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Now you've revealed a few weeks.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Back the volume of windows that needed to be replaced.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Almost seven hundred, almost seven hundred windows.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Now we've got a bit of a clearer idea of
the initial cost.
Speaker 7 (26:10):
Yes, so so far what's been spent is almost three
hundred thousand dollars, so two hundred and eighty eight thousand
something something something, And then obviously we've got the tenders
on top of it to replace the first tranch windows
and then there was like a tender for one hundred windows.
Then a tender for six five hundred windows sorry, the mattresses,
(26:31):
fire extinguishers, the sewage system as well had to be
fixed in certain areas because of nappies and rocks also
left in it. So so far in the reporting period
of estimates, as they say, it was almost three hundred thousand,
So all of those are going to add up. Then
your plus on top of it, there was seventy two
police officers had to be rosted through that center, plus
(26:53):
with private security on top of that, which was more
than a million dollars. Then you had on the other
bits and pieces that have to go with looking after
people there as well.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
It's a huge amount of money, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
And there's sort of been a suggestion, I guess from
the government that you feel as though the CLP is
politicizing this and that you feel as though they know
they're insinuating that people shouldn't have been evacuated and allowed
to stay at Howard Springs.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
But I don't think it's that. I think it's more
at the level of damage, oh definitely.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
And look, the CLP supports, of course, we support evacuation
and what we don't support is damage and cover ups
by the labor government, because right from the very start,
we've had the Chief Minister come out and tell us
that it's been wear and tear, even during estimates. I
think Eva used the word we're in tear four times
whilst we're hearing all of the new figures that we've
(27:43):
had to dig really deep to get those, and it
hasn't been politicized, you know, to hear that there was
seventy two police rotated through there in another.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
One seventy two seventy two.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Police and one point one two million is spent on security.
Even yesterday questioning Cape Loden, we heard that there was
a sobering up shelter there and there was also a
shelter or a safe house for women and children. But
to top it all off, you know, this is the
Minister for Prevention of Family, domestic and Sexual violence. They
(28:13):
weren't even recording the number of people going through the
safe house. So how do you take action when those
statistics aren't even being recorded? And we still and she
wasn't even able to say whether any of those domestic
violence incidents were reported to police even though women and
children were taking shelter in a safe house.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Lauren, do you think that we like that it was
just the wrong location realistically to be a housing families.
You know, when you've got a situation where people are
traveling in you've got families. In some cases, I would imagine,
you know, maybe three kids, two kids, and you're staying
out there at how it springs, and there's people from
various different communities like it just seemed as though it
(28:53):
did not work.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
And look, if you look at other times when we've
had natural pas, that's a cyclone things, and you've got
people who are evacuated to say to showgrounds. You know,
so here you've got a facility. I would say it's
probably be much better facility than evacuating people to the showgrounds.
So government has used the best available facility that we
have access to and management of for evacuees, and I
(29:18):
think that's entirely appropriate. I think what will happen now,
as happens at on the back of any natural disaster,
is that all of those agencies who are involved, and
presumably territory families who let that welfare response, will have
to do a debrief on how that worked and making
sure that those any learnings from that can be implemented
(29:40):
in the future.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
But we are talking about a disaster.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
We are talking about circumstances where police, emergency services, welfare
response have to be stood up really quickly and people
need to be taken to a safe place, and then
there's a whole process about transitioning home that's incredibly difficult,
something we're very used to doing the territory, but we
try and improve that every time.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
And I think Lawrence touched on that there should be
a review of what happened. But even during estimates, Eva
Laula said that she wouldn't do anything differently. But this
is the amazing part about her. She said she wouldn't
do anything differently. But we've just rattled off all of
this damage and seventy two please one point one two.
On security, there's a safe house that's sobing up shelter
(30:21):
which indeed do anything different that hangs. So there needs
to be a full review and of course those findings
should be publicly released so that people can see what
actually happened, what are the findings, and what could be
done differently next time.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Just to be clear, Eva was answering questions that were
relevant to her agency's delivery around z in tower screens,
which is infrastructure and bus service to transport, those elements
of what's going on. So in terms of so what
I'm saying, Steve, when you say Eva's saying she wouldn't
do anything differently, Eva is not Eva's department.
Speaker 5 (30:53):
It was not the department who.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Were collborating the welfare response. There's always a deep brief,
there's always a review of what happens in these circumstances, as.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
There should be, and I think there absolutely needs to be.
One of the things so that I'm keen to touch
on is I know the Treasurer had said that the
total cost of the budget with damage that damage was
two hundred and eighty eight thousand dollars as you've gone
through there just a moment ago for as Kathleen. But
despite that, there has been no police charges. So there's like,
it's obvious to me that there's been criminal damage if
(31:25):
we'd be honest about such a huge volume of From
the questioning to Kate yesterday in regards to those police charges, I.
Speaker 7 (31:33):
Really didn't get much of an impression that anyone's going
to be found to be because she was very very
set on the wording if evidence is found, So unless
someone is caught on camera, and the proof is there
of seeing them smashing something up using the fire extinguishers,
ripping up mattresses or whatever. Whether charges are going to
(31:55):
flow or not is a big question. I wasn't really
convinced there would be any To be honest with you.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Is that I break.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I'm astounded that no charges have been laid for that
amount of damage, the amount of replacement windows up to
five hundred and seventy odd windows.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
One hundred and seventy, six hundred and seventy.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
So to find that there's no charges being laid at
this stage when we had seventy two police rotating through
there obviously a number of security people. When you spend
one point one two million just on security, somebody must
have seen something. Now to investigate that matter, a lot
of questions need to be asked, and I'm sure that
a thorough investigation would get.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
To the bottom.
Speaker 7 (32:31):
And I'd had you bet that predominantly most of the
damage was caused by kids throwing rocks, and so you'd
think maybe those kids might be too young to face
charges and perhaps have to go through diversion or get
the warning system whatever that may.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Now, I don't know, but it's Look, I don't think
that it bodes well to the community. You know, like
people are sort of going, hang on a second, there's
a huge amount of damage there, It's a significant amount
of money, and how is there nobody then responsible for us?
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Well, look, I mean police will have to investigate criminal
matters and so you know, yes, there will have to
be evidence to be able to charge somebody with a crime.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
That's how it seems so, but.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
It's sort of based on what the government.
Speaker 5 (33:14):
Says are doing that work.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I guess it seems so based on what the government's
saying through questioning and also even just what you've said
then that it doesn't seem like the government thinks it's
a criminal matter. It seems so you guys do genuinely
think it's where and.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Tee it seems to we're being brushed off. And look,
the government had a duty of care to keep people safe.
They had a duty to spend taxpayers money responsibly. They've
clearly failed.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
At both of them.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
I think that where I think that actually would have
been really clear that where criminal damage has occurred, we
expect that to be thoroughly investigated and that people will
be held responsible.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
So that's about a directive to the police.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
Police act on criminal matters, that's what.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
They do, and there needs to be a report. So
the real question is has the responsible minister reported that
to the police. Is there a formal complaint about the damage,
what investigation is being done and when will we see
the outcome?
Speaker 7 (34:04):
Essentially, yeah, the police Minister said there's needs to be
a complainant, which is someone obviously going to police and
making a complaint of something happening, which in this circumstance
is the Infrastructure Department is tipple.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
We'll have to They're.
Speaker 7 (34:17):
Obviously doing the construction assessment at the moment, which will
tally up the exact cost of what is needed and
perhaps once they have that information then go to police
and say we've had this much damage.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Investigating if they're not already.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
But the important thing is that assessment still underway. There's
likely to be more damage identified. Look, I've heard stories,
it's anecdotal, but I'm hearing that there's damage to air
conditioning as well.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, well, let's wait and see exactly what the situation is.
We are going to have to take a very short
break when we come back. I'm still keen to have
a quick look at the code yellow at the hospital,
but also that train derailment and a bit of an
update on that situation. You are listening to Mix one
O four point nine three sixty. We are indeed coming
to you live this morning from the Supercars. You are
(35:00):
indeed listening to the week that was, and we are
coming to you live this morning from the supercars. It's
all happening at the Darwin Triple Crown Supercars, the Indigenous
Round underway, and well, there has been so much to
cover off on this week and throughout everything going on.
With estimates, there probably hasn't been as much coverage of
the code yellow at the hospital as what there ordinarily
(35:22):
would be. So the code yellow was called on Wednesday
for Royal Darwin and Palmerston Hospital due to a peak
in hospital demand following a steady increase of patient admissions.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Now we'd caught up.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
With Cat Hatcher from the Nursing Ambigwiffree Union a little
earlier this week and she had explained to us that
for a lot of the nurses out there, you know,
they're actually quite okay when the code yellow is called,
because it means that it's all hands on deck everybody
is there able to help each other and really get
stuck into helping patients. But she also really revealed to
(35:54):
us that the last code yellow it only lifted I
think on the sixth of June, so we've really only
been out of the yellow.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
For a small period of time before we're back.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Into the next one, which you know, does demonstrate that
there are issues with staffing, as she had touched on,
and we know that that's a nationwide thing, but certainly
for us here in the territory, we're feeling the impacts
of that. And fundamentally, you know, people want to be
able to know that if they need to see, you know,
if they need to head into the hospital, that they're
(36:22):
going to be able to see who they need to
which I think, you know, we all know and understand
that our healthcare professionals do a phenomenal job in ensuring
that that happens.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
But gee, it's a lot of stress.
Speaker 7 (36:33):
And at the hospitals, and it is becoming so regular
that we do see this. Obviously you touched on it,
it only o being lifted about a week ago. I mean,
in this circumstance, they did say elective surgeries hadn't been
deferred at this time, which is a big part of
Usually the code yellows, those elective surgeries get pushed back
until they can get everything under control, which isn't great
for those people who have those chronic pain that are
(36:55):
trying to get fixed or having to wait again and again,
which we already know the wait list is so long
as it is, so it will be very interesting to
see the Health Minister, the Chief Minister be confronted with
these questions on Monday, because she wouldn't have had those
if she had been first cap up the rank when
she gets back from landing.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
I understand in this in this case that the elective
surgeries haven't been defended. Heyah so, and you know, I
think Cat's right. Obviously, when there's a Code yellow, there's
different measures that kick in that are around patient flow,
and they do they get on with it and they
do an absolutely phenomenal job. There's obviously a twenty five
(37:33):
million dollar investment in that thirty two bed multipurpose ord
as well, which I think is going to be welcomed.
There's mental health infrastructure that will be coming online as well,
which will help with that patient flow out of the
ED and the life for the aged care, Yeah, the
age care, and also the things like the corresponder model
where we've got clinicians going out with first responders to
(37:57):
help try and divert some of those triple zero around
mental health distress away from the ED. These are all
things that have to continue to work together and help lift.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Those Sure Baty, what we're seeing is clearly a health
system in crisis at the moment. This is the tenth
Code yellow since February twenty twenty one. So not only
have we seen Code yellows in Darwin and Palmerston, but
the whole health system in places like Catherine TenneT Creek
and Alice Springs is under a lot of pressure as well.
It was only eighteen months ago the Chief Minister couldn't
(38:26):
tell us how many vacancies there were in the hospitals.
Now that's very worrying and it says to me that
the Chief Minister has clearly lost control of the health system.
It might be time for her to think about putting
a different minister in charge of health because as the
Chief Minister, there's a big workload that goes with that.
She's clearly lost control of the health system at the
moment and it's not working what she's doing.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
At the moment.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
I think she's been an incredible health minister. She's actually
probably the longest serving health mist in the country too,
very very experienced.
Speaker 7 (38:58):
A personal passion in it as well, given her experience
give family having to be involved with it. I mean
this crist and have been going on for it. It
definitely has been going on for.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
A long time.
Speaker 7 (39:07):
And we've heard those things that are being put in
place to improve it.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
So should those have happened sooner?
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Well, so it's clearly time for change that the Health Minister,
you know, the Chief Minister has been there far too long.
It's time to look at reinvigorating the have you.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Been anointed the shadow Health wasn't really.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Fantastic respon.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
We are just going to have to move along because
I do just want to give our listeners a bit
of an update on the trail train derailment. As we
know emergency services earlier in the week we're responding to
that trained derailment in Cossack. Now I think we've probably
all seen the photos now it was extensive and you know,
a huge shout out I think goes to our frontline
services our fieries, our emergency services, our police, everybody involved
(39:57):
in making sure that you know that things got under
control as quickly as they did.
Speaker 7 (40:01):
And it could have been a very nasty I personally,
after seeing what happened in the Hunter Valley over that weekend,
something like that with a crane and a truck, a
train and a truck could end.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
In just catastrophic disaster as well.
Speaker 7 (40:16):
So it was incredible that people stuff at injuries, which
isn't great of course, and I believe that they recovered life.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
I'm just glad we've got fully trained people that can
respond to these. You know, our frontline workers, I believe
are the best in the country, and I think when
it comes to you know, these, this is a real
disaster and I think just trying to clean up first
responders on the scene. I'm glad that there was no
serious injuries that I've heard of at the marment, but
it could have been a lot worse.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
And I tell you what, I think for a lot
of a lot of people, they would have heard Joshua Fisher,
from the Deputy Chief Fire Officer on the show yesterday
detailing just how significant that response was from our frontline
services and It is incredible the way that they mobilized
and had the support right across the board to be
able to do that. But just a little bit of
(41:02):
an update, so we know now from the suppliers of
the supermarket suppliers, basically new supplies of food were delivered
into Catherine yesterday afternoon by train, and trucks transported supplies
later in the day into Darwin.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
So by the look of it, the.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Detachment of those wagons and removal of containers on the
train that's happened, removal of well, basically that recovery work
is also going to include the removal of damaged locomotives
and wagons, bikrane and heavy equipment.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
At this stage, it's looking as though.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Those track repairs to be completed and the rail service
is expected to recommence by late Saturday, pending any unforeseen issues.
Speaker 7 (41:44):
So amazing how fast they're able to work. And I mean,
we've heard through all the things about developing the North,
those supply links are so vital to be able to
do that. Obviously around the defense stuff, and it was
highlighted as a weakness for hours, but just the fact
that they've been able to say that they'll be cleared
and ready to go by the end of Saturday on
(42:04):
the road.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
And yeah, everybody's just clicking number exactly.
Speaker 5 (42:09):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Really, congratulations to all the responders, and look, I just
want to thank them for the work that they do
every day of the week and this is just another
example of how good our first responders are.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Absolutely well, that is it for the week that was.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
This morning nine News Darwin's Kathleen Gazola, thank you for
your time today. Steve Eedgington from the colp are here
from the Barklays, Thanks.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
For your time this morning. Good to have you on
the show.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Lauren Moss all the way from Cash Arena, thank you
this morning. Are we going to catch you doing a
hot lap later?
Speaker 5 (42:39):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (42:39):
Look, probably not, but I will be here over the
weekend enjoying I'd look, I do, enjoyment of the
Speaker 5 (42:50):
Love it atmosphere is grain
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