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October 16, 2025 • 45 mins

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for the week that was in Central Australia
representing today. We have got Robin Lamley in the studio.
Good morning, lovely to have you in the studio. We've
got Steve Edgington joining us from Tenant Creek this morning.
Good morning in the studio.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
In the studio, the Barkley is separate.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
And we've got Chancey Paike in the studio as well.

Speaker 4 (00:26):
Good morning, Good morning Katie. And it is great to
be here with members who are all from the South.

Speaker 5 (00:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Do you know what, I actually love it when Parliament's
on because I get a whole different lineup for the
week that was, So it is.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
I've got to be diplomatic.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Chancey.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
I'm going to say everyone's my favorite on the panel.
I can't have favorites.

Speaker 4 (00:48):
Now.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
It has been an incredibly busy week for you guys
in Parliament. We know that overnight the Government passed the
long awaited Anti Discrimination Amendment Bill, delivering on a key
election promise to re store balance.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
To NT laws. Is what they've said now.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
The Attorney General Mary Clare Boothby saying the changes strike
as sensible middle ground protecting territorians from genuine harm, while
upholding free speech and religious freedom. She says the bill
restores the right of faith based schools to higher stuff
based on religious beliefs and introduces a new incitement model

(01:24):
for vilification, replacing Labour's previous laws seen as overly broad.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
I mean, what do we make of it.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
I know that there has been a lot of discussion
about this over recent weeks, some with serious concerns that
it's you know, that we are going to see you know,
more people discriminated against. I guess for me, I've always
been quite concerned from a real freedom of speech perspective,
and I like to think I'm pretty careful about what
I say and what I don't say, and I certainly

(01:52):
do not want to be somebody who's inciting hate in
any way, shape or form. But you know, it has
always concerned me a little bit, the freedom of speech,
making sure that people do still have that freedom to
speak freely, but to be respectful and you know, to
not be discriminating against anybody based on well, any attributes
that might make them different.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Oh exactly, And Katie, yesterday in Parliament we passed the
anti discrimination legislation and as we said, right from the
very outset our commitment was to restore freedoms of speech
and religion, and that's exactly what we've done. There is
a balance between fairness and common sense for Territorians and
when it comes to those religious schools, what we've done

(02:33):
is restored protections for religious schools which was removed by
Labour back in twenty twenty two.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Jasy, I remember you and I having some fairly you know,
what would you say, robust, hardy discussions when those laws
did change. I mean, how are you now feeling about
some of that being reversed.

Speaker 4 (02:52):
Look, Katie, I guess I want to just start by
acknowledging that there's always a difference of opinion of ideas.
But yes, today I think Parliament was quite respectful in
that debate. I felt I felt that, yeah, there's a
difference of opinion, there's a difference of ideas. I and
my party never felt that the freedom of his speech

(03:13):
had been curtailed. The COLP last night, you know, came
into Parliament spoke about it. The law has been passed
or it's changed, it's a waiting to go to the administrator.

Speaker 6 (03:24):
Now.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
Look, I think, yeah, it's a difference of ideas. We
had a different model. The government now have moved to
a model where they're saying, in terms of the vilification provisions,
it needs to incite, which is different to what we had.
But look, the legislation has passed. One of the biggest
critiques though, I think from members in the community, was

(03:44):
the proposed changes weren't actively consulted when a draft bill
came back to Parliament.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Can I ask, because I know people listening this morning
will probably be asking the same thing, is you know
in terms of that insight, like what does that mean
for the everyday Joe blow listening this morning.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, you know, from my perspective, inciting is going out
there and deliberately inciting that hatred amongst people. And I
think that's about being that outspoken, intentional getting out there
and inciting that hatred. But that's what we've done. We've
changed it to ensure that anybody that incites hatred, serious
contempt or severe ridicule will be subject to this particular provision.

(04:26):
But I think you know, when it comes back to
all of the consultation, what we clearly were able to
say is that we have been out The Attorney General
made it very clear that there has been extensive consultation.
I think, you know, the Member for Guajo, a chance
he is here today, asked the very question last night,
and the Attorney General was very clear that there was

(04:47):
extensive consultation about these changes.

Speaker 5 (04:49):
What Labor brought in, what your government, the former Labor
government bought in, Chancey a few years ago, was just
taking it too far. It was too extreme and in
my view, it was too radical. So from my perspective,
what the new Colp government have done last night is
bring it back to a more middle position. It's more moderate,

(05:15):
but it still is a robust piece of legislation and
I am satisfied that it will protect minority groups. It
will protect all the groups that Chancey listed last night,
Aboriginal people, the rainbow sector, disabled people, from the multicultural community.
But I think, truly, Chancey, I think one of the

(05:37):
reasons why you guys lost government a year ago was
because of the legislation you bought in a few years
ago on anti discrimination. I think it would have to
be in the top five of the reasons why Labor
got booted out because it was too extreme and too radical.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
I think, Katie, I think it's important for people who
are listening today who might not believe a politician the
Anti Discrimination Commissions put out some really amazing fact sheets
just to talk to people about what the law was currently,
what the changes mean following today, So you know, you
don't have to believe us the Anti Discrimination Commission has.

(06:13):
That's his a peek in too, you know, and that's
based on the interpretation of the current law, the law
as it's changed, and based on the Australian jurisdictions around
the place.

Speaker 5 (06:24):
So see, when you talk about this stuff anti discrimination legislation,
you're talking about one of the clear topics that will
always have a very left leaning and possibly you know,
and a right leaning and never the twains shall meet.
And we saw that last night in Parliament or the
left leaning politicians stood up and had a very what

(06:46):
I would call a fairly extreme view on where we
should be sitting in terms of this legislation. The Government
is bringing it back from there. They could have gone further.
The Attorney General talked about how the Christian lobby wanted
them to go further, but they didn't. I think this
is just where exactly where it should be, and it

(07:07):
will meet the expectations of most people exactly.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
And I think exactly what Robin's saying, I think we've
met the middle ground. And I think that came out
of the discussion yesterday is that we have met the
middle ground, and I think looking at it from all
different angles, I think there is a real good balance there,
and certainly from a religious schools perspective, it now gives
parents a choice and it also gives clarity to the

(07:32):
religious schools how they want to implement this, and it
gives the opportunity to put in place policy for each
particular religious faith on how they're going to make it.

Speaker 4 (07:42):
The one thing that is important is again a number
of us in the Parliament might not represent the minority
groups that will be affected. So what is important is
the legislation that Labor had passed, had been in for
two years, we had not seen an increase in complaints
or had not been reportable people who had had their

(08:02):
liberty infringed on. But moving forward, what we have to
look at now as an opposition and as a parliament
is the legislation moving forward and the number of complaints
if there are or matters that are interested, which will
tell us whether it is working or not, and whether
people in our community from particular sectors or community groups

(08:26):
are feeling that the change has worked or hasn't worked,
because we're sometimes not best placed to make those evaluations
on has it or hasn't it worked. But tonight you
know it did pass last night. That's what it is.
Will now as a community work forward and see how
that unfolds.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Well, we'll move along to comments made by the Chief
Minister on this show earlier in the week.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Now. Earlier in the week, I'd.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Interviewed the Chief Minister as I do on a Monday
morning and had asked her about a letter that was
sent to the Prime Minister Anthony Albanezy also sent to
the other Premiers and Chief Ministers around the nation. Now.
It came from the Women's Forum of Australia and wrote to,
as I said, the Prime Minister and the other leaders, saying,
I write with profound concern for the safety and dignity

(09:14):
of women incarcerated in our nation's prisons.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Now. It followed a series.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Of what were described as deeply troubling cases that have
come to light across multiple jurisdictions, which involve male offenders
who identify as women being housed in female facilities. Now
the letter went through a number of different incidents, including
one that was published in the Australian newspaper on Friday
last week from South Australia where inside the Portagusta Prison,

(09:42):
which accommodates both male and female offenders, a female prisoner
was failed in every way imaginable. The letter states by
the state's correctional services. She was placed in a cell
with a notoriously violent trans identified male offender who was
subjected and was I should say subjected to a horrific
section assault by that person. Now we then, as I said,

(10:04):
ask the Chief Minister about this. On Monday, she said
female prisoners should have female prisons should have women only,
and that the Country Liberal Party had taken a practical,
common sense approach to the debate. She said, at the
end of the day, if you're born a bloke, you're
going to a men's prison and we'll deal with you there. Now.
As I said, it comes following on from that letter

(10:25):
that was written to her and others by the Women's
Forum of Australia, the Chief Minister saying anti prisons prisoners
who were assigned male at birth and now identified as
female would be sent to men's prisons even if they
had transitioned. Now, I've got to say a lot of
support for the Chief Minister in terms of the public saying, well,

(10:46):
that seems to make sense. You know, we want women
to be safe when they are incarcerated. We want them
safe in whatever situation they are in. Now, I am
not suggesting in any way, shape or form that a
transper just because somebody is a transperson that they're going
to be violent. That is certainly not the suggestion that's
being made here. But she was specifically asked about some

(11:08):
pretty dangerous scenarios and responded that it was not the
government policy to have trans people or trans women in
female prisons. I mean, what did everybody make of the
comments from the Chief Arisita?

Speaker 5 (11:21):
I agree with her one hundred percent. I mean, you
can't have blokes in women's prisons and call me old fashioned,
but a bloke, a man is someone with a penis,
and that's.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
I don't think that's all.

Speaker 5 (11:33):
And I haven't sort of gravitated away from that. It's
not trans issues, and transgender issues aren't something I'm overly
okay with. I sympathize with those group, that group, and
I think they have to be protected in the prison
system too, absolutely, but I think it's unacceptable to have

(11:54):
men blokes in women's prison And on the flip side
of that is having women in men's prisons isn't acceptable either.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yeah, on, well that would be a dangerous scenario as well.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
I think you know from our perspective, look, our Chief
Minister has made our position very clear, very very clear.
And I think you know when you look at those examples, Codie,
I think you quoted New South Wales and South Australia
and there was the letter from the Women's Forum of
Australia that was sent to the Prime Minister and copied

(12:27):
into all of the leaders across Australia. And I think
what we've seen is our Chief Minister get on the
front foot, show leadership and make sure, as she said,
is that men going men's prisons, women going women's prisons. Now,
this is all about protecting women. You know, if we
can't have women in women's prisons at risk, we want
to ensure the safety of women in those women's prisons.

(12:49):
And I think, as Robin said, our Chief Minister has
been very clear this is a straightforward, common sense approach
to dealing with prisoners in prisons, Chansey.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
I know there had been some comments or certainly some
discussion throughout this week in Parliament saying well, hang on,
the government actually haven't changed their legislation here the legislation,
I believe, I mean, has it changed. I know you
guys were asking some questions about it through the week.

Speaker 4 (13:12):
Yeah, look, Katie, it's not the legislation, it's the policy.
So the last time the policy was amended was October
last year, but that was part of the machinery of
government changes. So as what has been available on the
website and publicly available, it hasn't changed since Labor was
in government. I think when you talk and you look

(13:33):
around what is happening nationally, I think it needs to
be a case by case basis. I mean in the
Northern Territory here and I am very proud to call
them my friends. We have brother boys and sister girls
predominantly from you know, the Tiwei Islands and a lot
of our coastal communities and also down in Central Australia,

(13:53):
and I stand with them in their journeys. But I
think it is important when we look at what we do,
it needs to be done on a case by case basis,
and there are always measures. I absolutely have confidence in
the Northern Territory correctional facilities to manage those circumstances because
we are talking about fellow Territorians. They're not a separate

(14:15):
group of people, they are Territorians. We need to make
sure that everyone has the right to feel safe. And
when we have heard in Parliament this week that statistically
members of our trans communities are more often resulting in
domestic and family violence from you know, cisgender men, so

(14:36):
I think that we need to have a conversation here.
I don't think it's an either or I think that
we do need to do that. But I just draw
on the Chief Minister's comments this week saying, you know,
not on my watch, this is absolutely appalling. But also
I support trans well, that doesn't sound like you do.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
It's a really tough one though, as a woman in
a lot of ways where you know, in some situations,
and I will note that there has not been any
scenario as far as I'm aware in Northern Territory prisons
where any woman has been put in an unsafe situation,
you know, with a trans person, you know, in a
prison cell with a female.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
It may have been a different scenario.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
I'm not entirely sure throughout the watchhouses at different times,
as they have been quite overcrowded. But you know, as
a woman, it can be a really tough situation at
times to actually sort of stand up and go all right.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
I feel quite worried about this.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
I do feel quite concerned, you know, that something could
happen here because physically and biologically, I'm actually not as
strong as, you know, as somebody who has grown a
male or who has you know, has certainly been born
a male.

Speaker 3 (15:47):
And if I.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Speak out, or if I say that I feel scared,
or if I say that I feel worried about it,
I'm going to be really ridiculed and I'm going to be,
you know, basically told that I'm you know that I'm not.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
And Katie, what you're saying is absolutely allowed. What we're
doing right now on this show is having a respectful conversation.
It's not heated, there's no animation, and it's not directly
using hysterical language to demonize people in our trans community.
Right now is a healthy and a robust discussion. And look,

(16:22):
I have a completely different view to the member for
our LEU and the Member for Barkley. But you know,
I have always had absolute confidence in the correctional services
and I have never heard of a report in the
Northern Territory where women have been at risk due to
a transgender person in a prison system. And there are
mechanisms in place for women and for trans people in corrections.

(16:46):
It's not solitary confinement, but it is an element of
where they can be in a difference.

Speaker 5 (16:52):
I wasn't aware of that, Chancey. That's very interesting. Can
I just share this morning I received an email from
someone giving me some some facts around the incidence of
abuse against transgender women in the US prison system, and
it's horrific. They are subjected to horrific rates of sexual

(17:16):
abuse basically in male prisons. Transgender women put into male prisons,
so I acknowledge that that isn't the best place for
these people, but to put them in the women's prison
isn't either, So Chancey, if that's the case, and I
wasn't aware of that, if they are separated, then that
is probably the solution.

Speaker 4 (17:36):
So that corrections, Again, our commissioner has the ability to
make the determination. It's not it's not solitary confinement, but
they can I don't like using the word confined because
it's like putting it.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
But if someone's going safe, they're keeping them.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
Absolutely do that across the entire prison population, whether it's
a transman or a trans woman. The prison system has
the ability to be able to protect that.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
And no doubt that it's happening. There's no doubt that
that's already happening. But the fact of the matter is
what we've seen, what the evidence is showing, certainly from
South Australia and New South Wales. We want women in
women's prisons, we want men in men's prisons. How that
is managed on a daily basis. In the prison, the
commissioner has the discretion to look after every prisoner. We

(18:23):
want to make sure that every prisoner is safe, but
we want to make sure that women are safe not
only in prison but in the community.

Speaker 4 (18:29):
We are the Northern Territory, Katie, and we've already been
doing that.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
Looks though.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
I mean when you read some of these situations that
have unfolded in other states, it's really horrifying stuff. It's
actually really horrifying stuff. There is you know, one of
those incidents in Victoria I think was the one that
probably concerned me the most. That was a report in
the Australian. We're a TRANSI identified male offender who sexually
abused his own five year old daughter had been placed

(18:56):
into Victoria's largest women's prison. Now, Disturbingly, the court except
did arguments that the offender's gender issues and struggles with
transition had diminished his culpability, and that he committed the
abuse in part to be validated as a woman. I
just don't buy that, you know, I just think that
you know, whether this is whether you're talking about a male,
a female, somebody who's transitioned, that kind of absolutely disturbing

(19:21):
behavior should not be accepted in any way, shape or form,
and we should not be excusing it in any way,
shape or form. Like I said, I don't care where
you come from or you know what your background is,
but we with certainly with violence against a child.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
There is to me, there's no exception.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, Cody, the upshot is our Chief Minister has shown
the leadership that's necessary, and I suspect that all states
will be following.

Speaker 5 (19:50):
Chief Minister or premier. Premier got on board straight away,
and so.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
You know, I think all credits are our chief Minister.
She's shown leadership men and men's prisons, women and women's prisons. Yes,
there will be appropriate protections in each prison, but the
leadership shown by our Chief Minister and all states look
like they're going to be following.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
I think we just need to remain My only thing,
Katie is we just all have to be respectful. We
are talking about territorians of.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
Course, fair cool, very fair cool.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
We are going to take a really quick break. You
are listening to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty. Well,
you are listening to Mix one O four nine's week
that was if you've just joined us in the studio
this morning. We've got Robin Lamley, we have got Steve Edgington,
and we've got Chancey Paik. Now the crime stats, well,
the Chief Minister has been out this morning about an
hour ago, I think, releasing the latest crime statistics.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
The stats cover the period of.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
January to August this year with one two hundred and
seventy three less victims of crime than in the same
months the previous year. That is what the Chief Ministers
said that it's a reduction of seven point four percent.
Now the governments say the past eight months more than
one two hundred fewer offenses were recorded territory wide, including

(21:04):
major reductions in robberies, house break ins, and commercial burglaries.
So offenses against the person have dropped sixteen percent, assaults
it down nineteen percent, residential break ins of full and
twenty four percent. Commercial burglaries are plummeted thirty eight percent. However,
you know, I will say that I know whenever we
dabbling crime statistics, you've got to be real careful because

(21:26):
there is always someone listening who's been a victim of crime,
who've had something happen. And I know that for you
guys in your communities, I don't know whether things have
gotten a heck of a lot better in Alice Springs
or in Tenant Creek.

Speaker 4 (21:38):
You tell me, well, look, Katie, and we're hearing this
morning that the crime stats are out. They don't get
released publicly till ten thirty, So after ten thirty, I'll,
you know, certainly have a deep dive and look at
those stats. But of course any trend down is a
welcome trend absolutely, but again, really keen to just get

(21:59):
the break down and see what are the actual statistics
for Alice Springs, for Tenant Creek for Catherine, for the
wider territory, not just the overall snapshot. I I am
interested in looking at what the assaults or harm to
another is. But of course any decrease is a welcomed thing,
whether that is and I think that this will be

(22:21):
the interesting work now is looking at and I'm interested
to hear from Steve. Is it a particular measure that
they think personally has worked, or is it a suite
of measures? Is it combined with the Commonwealth's financial investments
that have gone into Central Australia funding a number of programs,
And importantly, and absolutely most importantly, just really acknowledging again

(22:44):
today our hard working police and frontline officers doing an
amazing job. Our members of the judiciary who are following
the laws and making sure that they are considering though
so I think, yeah, look, I'm absolutely the first to
say any decrease is a welcome decore.

Speaker 5 (23:00):
We certainly didn't see these decreases under your watch, Chancey.
I just have to throw that in. So it is
very encouraging to see these small incremental decreases in crime.
Can you see the difference on the streets of Alice Springs?
Probably not would you agree, Chancy.

Speaker 4 (23:20):
Yeah, I think I think we've got to remember as well. Okadie,
you summed it up beautifully, and Robin, you've hit the
nail on the head as well. Crime affects each of
us differently, and I think we are still seeing a
lot of you know, public drunkenness and you know, antisexual behavior.
So I think it's a motive issue and it's going

(23:41):
to take some time to do the work. And again
it's a personal thing. I have spoken to some people
you know that will say that they've seen changes, and
then I've spoken to other people in particular suburbs who
say there's been no change.

Speaker 5 (23:54):
So it is, and the of damaged caused the deterioration
in law and order is very difficult to turn around.
It's difficult to turn around the deterioration in our streets
and the way, you know, those obvious signs of wear
and tear from crime and law and order. We had
friends stay with us over the weekend who had both

(24:18):
lived in Alice Springs a long time ago, and they
were shocked at the state of the town, the impact
of crime over many years on the town. So we've
got a long way to go. But look, these signs
are encouraging and we have to be optimistic.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
But yeah, Katie, as you said, you know, the statistics
are encouraging. Look our commitment to restoring law and order.
The statistics that you've just rattled off very encouraging. But
is there more to do? Of course there's more to do,
and we acknowledge that, and that's what we're constantly doing
every day of the week getting out there, focus on
reducing crime, but restoring law and order. And I think

(24:53):
when we talk about, you know, what has worked, I think,
you know, we came to government on a focus of
reducing crime right across the Northern territory. Think, as we said,
the statistics are encouraging, but I think when you look back,
we put in place some very strong bail laws and
I think if you look at some of these statistics,
between the sixth of January and thirtieth of September four
thousand and five hundred and eighty seven adults were refused bail,

(25:16):
that's a thirty eight percent increase for the same period
last year. So is there some correlation there, Well, we
need to examine that further, but certainly the refusal of
bail are drop in crime rates. Things are working, but
we certainly acknowledge there's a lot lot more to do
right across the Northern territory, and I do want to
acknowledge the work that our front line officers are doing.

(25:37):
I think all credit must go to the police and
those agencies right through, whether it's whether it's housing safety offices,
whether it's transit officers, our children families departments, our education
just getting kids to school makes a difference. Everything makes
a difference when it comes to crime. Now, holistic approach
is certainly making a difference.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
So will note.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
I caught up with the newest the new police Commissioner,
Martin Dole, earlier in the week. I'd interviewed him on
the show. Now he had said that yes, there had
been a slight reduction, but he said there's still a
lot of work to be done and they're going to
be working very hard on that.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
I had asked if there is.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Going to be a bit more of a move towards
proactive policing again, because I think over the years, you know,
sort of post COVID and then with you know, unfortunately
extremely high rates of crime. What we saw is that
our police, our frontline officers were simply not able to
get out to everything. So had asked if there's going
to be a move towards that real proactive policing. He

(26:33):
said that, yeah, that is something that they'd like to do.
I do also want to note I'd caught up with
the Deputy Corrections Commissioner about a week and a half ago,
and he had also noted that in our watch houses
that we no longer have the high volume of prisoners
that we did in our watch houses, So hopefully that
is also a good thing. But you know, there is

(26:54):
no doubt that we have suffered, you know, dramatically when
it comes to the impacts of crime. I do think that,
you know, I wonder I think that a lot of
people would probably agree across the top end that things
are are a bit better, but we do still have
a long way to go. But there's also a long
way to go in terms of that restoring of you know,
like restoring that confidence with territorians that you know, when

(27:17):
something does happen, they call the police, they are going
to be able to get someone out there in a
timely fashion and that there will be that proactive policing again.
So there is that restoring of the confidence. And that's
not a criticism of the police in any way. In fact,
I think they work incredibly hard. There's no other way
to put it. But we you know, as a community,
whether you're in Tenant Creek, Alice Springs, you know, whatever,

(27:39):
wherever you may be, we all want to feel safe.
We want to be safe in our homes and we
want to know that should something go wrong, that the
good men and women in the police force are able
to get out there and help it.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Katie, That's what we're doing. We're focused on getting more
police on the street. We want to see police on
the front line and you know, just over the last
last financial years, one hundred and eighty two new sworn officers. Yes,
we can talk about attrition rates, but the facts are
one hundred and eighty two additional police. And when you've
got police on the front line, visible, the public has
confidence when they see police out and about and responding

(28:13):
to those issues. And I think when you look at
that overall, yes, the police want to be proactive. I
think we're slowly getting on top of some of those issues.
And when you talk about less prisoners in police watchhouses,
it just goes to show that the Corrections Minister has
been out there doing his part and we are getting
more bets back in prison so that there is a
better flow of prisoners outside of watchhouses.

Speaker 4 (28:35):
I don't disagree, Katie, but you know, our police do
do a fantastic job, and I think the appointment of
Martin dole Is is great and has been welcomed by many.
But this is not an issue that we should be
leaving up to the police alone. I think we need
to look at other models, like alternative first respond to
models where we're working with night patrols, patrolling groups, community

(28:56):
groups to look at there are measures that we can
have other groups that we can use to de escalate
situations to save police being called out for something that
they otherwise shouldn't normally have to deal with. It's recognizing
the value of our police and letting them get on
with the job of policing. There are other ways that
we can look at those patrols and I think, you know, Katie,

(29:18):
we are seeing at the moment that, yeah, there are
a lot of people in the corrections facilities, so really
interested to continue to find out from the Corrections Minister
what are the programs that are being developed because at
some point people have to be released from prison and
go back into the community, be reintegrated, and then how
we respond and keep the reciptivism reduced is really important

(29:39):
and I'm actively, really willing to work with anyone around
what that looks like.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Just while we're on the discussion of our prisons, I
do just want to raise the point that Justine Davis
had raised, of course, throughout Parliament this week. I know
that she'd moved a motion and called on the Federal
government to urgently establish an Aboriginal Deay in Custody Watchdog
with the aim to stop police from investigating police and

(30:05):
to end She's called it our national shame.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
Now.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
She brought the motion on Wednesday urging the Federal government
to establish an independent body with the resources and power
to enforce minimum standards and to investigate, report, monitor and
enforced change in relation to all Indigenous debts in custody
in Australia. Now, the discussion turned quite heated from what
I could see when I was watching in Parliament.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
Throughout the week.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Now she had within that speech that she had made,
there'd been some she had actually quoted the Human Rights
Commission President and said since colonization, Australian law has too
often delivered injustice to First Nations people. Police have often
been the agents of this injustice, helping to administer laws

(30:49):
and policies like those that enabled the Stolen generations. Mistrust
continues between First Nations communities and police. She said or
was she quoted? Police investigate themselves. It breeds mistrust and
increases the risk of poor investigations and a lack of accountability.
Now this is what then Jared Mayley had to say

(31:13):
in Parliament. He obviously was pretty fired up. Take a listen,
you manage speak?

Speaker 6 (31:17):
Can I rise and make my contribution in relation to this?
But matters bigger? Before I start, I just want to
make it very clear that I am completely disgusted and
offended by the words meant for John just spoke about
about please not being trustworthy. My father was a police officer.
How dare you say he not trustworthy? Madam Speaker, memberpher

(31:38):
Barkley is the police officer. I know he's offended by
your words. Are you going to apologize to him? Are
you saying he's not trustworthy? How embarrassing?

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Members disgusting?

Speaker 5 (31:47):
Direct your comments from me, please, sorry.

Speaker 6 (31:49):
Madam speaker.

Speaker 5 (31:50):
I appreciate you.

Speaker 6 (31:50):
I'm just getting very fired up that how dare she
call the police untrustworthy? The police are the first person
to run into danger. They're the first person territory call
when there's a problem. I bet you Member for Johnson's
called the police. I'd better be one of her friends
is called the police. And yet she stands here and
says they're not trustworthy. And if she used the word
police agents of injustice. Police are agents of injustice. That's

(32:15):
embarrassing that I'm speaker.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
So that is part of what was said. Now. I
spoke to Justine on the show yesterday.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
She said that, you know that what Minister Mailie was
saying had taken her out of context, that she was
obviously reading from comments that had been made by the
Human Rights Commission president. But nonetheless it's certainly, you know,
it fired people up. I mean, Steve, were you offended
by the comments?

Speaker 2 (32:39):
I certainly was. And you know, any suggestion that there
is this mistrust amongst the police force, and I think
that that is quite hurtful to me. I spent sixteen
and a half years on the front line policing and
you're just going to go back to why we have police.
They're not the agents of injustice. They're there to serve
and protect the community. And I think this is the
important part that's real often missed. To serve and protect

(33:02):
the community. They do that when they put on their
uniform every day of the week. I trust them, the
community trusts them. So to come out in Parliament and
to read from a script suggesting that there is this
mistrusting police, it's just.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
Wrong and I think a very good distraction tool though
by Jared Mayley, you know, to take the discussion that
way when she was talking about Aboriginal debts in custody.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Well, I don't think it was a distraction tool, but
I think he clearly made a point that that mistrust
that was read out doesn't exist. But when it goes
to death in custody. Look, I've spent time reading the
Royal Commission into Abriginal dess in custody, and you know
there's this constant to commentary now that there needs to
be this independent body, but there was no suggestion of

(33:48):
that when the Royal Commission was completed. In fact, the
process that's being followed at the moment by police is
the very process recommended under the Royal Commission into Aboriginal
Desathing CUS. So I'm not sure why the Member for
Johnston is trying to rewrite history. I have full confidence
in the police police that aren't involved in any death

(34:09):
in custody. Police from a totally different area come in
to investigate that matter, which is overseen by the coroner.
And when you look at the separation of powers, the
judicial side of our system is overseeing the death of
every Aboriginal death in custody and you've only got to
look at the findings coming out of the death in

(34:31):
the under move But.

Speaker 4 (34:32):
I think Katie, let's be clear, the Member for Barkley
and the Deputy Chief Minister, they can be offended, but
not at the Member for Johnson. She was reading a
piece of literature that was done by someone else. So
I think that there's some real and look, we're all
guilty of it. You can become highly emotional in Parliament

(34:54):
and we've seen this week a number of times people
have missed heard one or two words. I think the Speaker,
Robin could talk about that in a minute. But I
think you know, since that Royal Commission of Aboriginal Torture
under debts and custody. There have been six hundred and
two or First Nations people have died. But I think
that there certainly are mechanisms. Part of the closing the

(35:14):
gap is an independent mechanism. Maybe that's an area where
we can look at a level of investigative work or oversight.
I don't think that we need to get into a
situation of creating things. We need to make sure that
we're working with the Commonwealth because this is a Commonwealth matter. Certainly,

(35:35):
I have members of my family are in the force,
my community are or alos. They do do a great job.
I think this is an issue that Yes, this week
was driven and parts of it have been taken out
of context. I think that's happened a week in parliament.
But I think, look, there are mechanisms. I think Steve

(35:55):
is the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, there is an independ mechanism.
It's not in yet, but it's been discussed at a
national level, First ministers, First Nations ministers. So let's have
a conversation. Is there an opportunity for some level.

Speaker 5 (36:10):
Of Yeah, Look, I think what Justine brought up was
legitimate and it's exactly what we should be doing in Parliament.
We should be talking about difficult topics that not necessarily
the other side of the chamber agrees with. Justine would have,
I assume predicted that what she was going to say

(36:32):
could be inflammatory, and it was. I mean, you know,
when you make comments like that, you're going to get
people's backs up. I don't think it was meant to
be personal, but it was certainly taken personally. There's always
two sides to every story. Justine was clearly shocked and
affronted by the reaction from Jared Mayley and subsequently the

(36:54):
Steve Edgington, who's staying here with us, But that's parliament.
You know, if you you have to bring up you're
paid to bring up difficult topics. You're paid to bring
up subjects that are unpalatable to some people in that chamber,
and you have to be prepared for the reaction you get.
Personal imputations and attacks are unacceptable. But I thought that

(37:16):
Jared how Jared responded, apart from looking at her and
going for her directly instead of me, I thought it
was not disorderly for the most part. I know that
Duran Young stood up later and he took exception to
the way in which the Deputy Chief Minister responded, but

(37:37):
he was also quite animated and aggressive about what he
was saying too. I like that, and a speaker I
embraced that if you're going to yell and carry on,
look at me and yell and carry on and make
a point, don't make it personal. But yeah, I think.

Speaker 4 (37:51):
Justine absolutely the point. And the speaker does remind people
when you're in Parliament, you're talking to her, You're not
talking to anyone else. And I think actions speak louder
than words as we hear, and I think sometimes we
do get really heated and we lean forward and people
are interjecting and pointing fingers, and that can make some

(38:16):
of the other people.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
If if you're not or yeah, yep, and Rob and
I know you did have your hands a little bit
full this week.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
I know chance he got thrown out. Your friends now
your friends now, I.

Speaker 5 (38:26):
Know we've always been friends. I've got a job to do,
and you know I've been thrown out so many times
I can't even remember.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
So you know, a.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Good speak, there's always time.

Speaker 5 (38:47):
Watching you very carefully.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
We've better take a quick break.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
You are listening to Mix one O four nine three
sixty it is the week that was.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
You've just joined us in the studio.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Today we've got Chancey Paig, We've got Steve Edgington and
Robin Lamley.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
Now, the big.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Story out of Central Australia this week is indeed the
fact that the Northern Tiret treat Treasurer pulled the pin
on the art Gallery and Alice Springs days after giving
the Federal government the ultimatum. Now, Bill Yan had said
that the government made several attempts to get the Commonwealth
to endorse changes to the scope and site before the
contract deadline for that work to begin. I mean, what

(39:25):
do you guys make of this? Robin, I know you
had been you'd said, well, let's spend the money on
a hospital. I asked if he said we're going to
need more than that.

Speaker 5 (39:32):
Well that's true. Look, this has just been a complete
abject failure from start to finish. This art gallery, Katie
nine years ending in absolute absolutely nothing for the town.
It's affected us all. I think it's put us all
back many years. It started off as a wonderful concept,

(39:53):
the iconic National Aboriginal Art Gallery. People have got behind
it and early in the piece it was put on
a trajectory of going nowhere being placed on Anazac Oval.
That was the problem.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
Where did it go so wrong?

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Because I spoke to Scott McConnell, a former MLA, earlier
in the week and he said, well it all went
wrong with Michael Gunner, that he was the architect of
falling Aparst.

Speaker 5 (40:18):
Michael Gunner decided to put it on Anzac Oval.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (40:23):
Look, I think where we are at the moment is.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Look.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
I think, just to be clear, I think that look,
I inherited the project when I first came into cabinet.
The government had been in for four years. There had
been a report by two really amazing Central Australians and
predominant art figures nationally. I obviously inherited a site and

(40:52):
had to try and deliver something premiere on that site.
That was then changed when the CLP came to government
Reese Go and location still within the vicinity but not
on the oval. I acknowledge that there was some backlash
around it being directly across the road from a pub.
I think the Treasurer has pulled it. I think that
we are hearing rumblings about other projects. I think that

(41:16):
if this is to go ahead. It should be something
that is one hundred percent managed and delivered by the Commonwealth,
that it can sit with either the National Gallery of Asia,
the National Museum or aasis. The territory doesn't need to
be involved in this anymore. But what I will say
is the Treasurer just didn't wake up on Tuesday morning

(41:38):
and decide that he was going to pull the money,
so they've had time. I mean, I know, and I
think Robin knows as well, like that money should be
reinvested in Central Australia. Robin will be hurrahing for the
hospital which is apso I agree. But I also think
there are great projects like total refurbishment of Ara Luin,
keeping the Museum of Central Australia open, move it to

(41:59):
the Desert Park, do a new great exhibition space at
the Strello Research Center. That money was allocated for a
cultural investment, Let's keep it there well.

Speaker 5 (42:07):
Melandery McCarthy was on ABC Radio Ela Springs this morning
and she very strongly implied that the art gallery is
not done yet. Mark two Mike to wait for this space.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
Yes, again, differing of opinion, I think what I heard
from that is that the money is still available. For
an artistic or content project, and I think from reading
between the lines, it should be something that's completely one
hundred percent driven by the federal government and it should

(42:39):
be south of the gap.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Well, it's interesting to hear Melanderry coming out.

Speaker 4 (42:44):
Robin last nine years.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Yeah, it's the first time, you know, labor member for.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
Both Get on Facebook and hit their like page and
keep up to date with where they traveling.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
She's ross probably traveling everywhere.

Speaker 4 (43:03):
Has been the strongest voice for Central Australia.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
We are hoping I'm hoping to have Marian on the
show on Monday morning, so we'll certainly we'll try and
follow this.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
She certainly got a lot of explaining to do because
the federal government had their opportunity to support this project
and they just dragged on and on and on.

Speaker 5 (43:20):
Change way to go out nine years again?

Speaker 2 (43:29):
I think, Well, I think the Treasurer gave more next
minute of opportunity to make a decision, but unfortunately labor
fighting amongst themselves and couldn't make a decision in the
part of fighting in labor. They couldn't even reach a
conclusion between Maryon and the.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Well, let's see whether what happens next We're going to
have to take a really quick break before we get
ready to wrap up for the morning.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
You are listening to mix on O four point ninety
is the week that was well it had.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
It's been an hour of power with these three in
here this morning. Robin Lambley, thank you so much for
your time today, very much for having me, and another
busy week for you as the Speaker.

Speaker 5 (44:11):
Back again next Tuesday Parliament kicks off again for another
three days.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Trying to keep everybody keep keeping a lid on things.
Thank you, kay doing your.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
Best, doing a good job.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Steve Edgington, the Minister for Health, thank you so much
for your time this morning.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
It's been great to be here, Catie. And perhaps one
thing we might want to talk about later is, as
I said in Parliament last night, the NTI is three
hundred and eighty four million dollars short when it comes
to health funding. Good one to talk well.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
We'll definitely be keen to have you on very soon
about that. I'll be keen to discuss that further.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
Chancey pig Ho'm we to have you in the studio
for the Labor Party.

Speaker 4 (44:48):
Great to be here. Just wanted to touch on next
weekend is the fortieth anniversary of the handbag of Ularu
to the all new people, so huge celebration. Everyone's going
to be down there. The COLP did originally pray test
the handback, so I hope to see the minister. That's great.
I think there was some of that was something they've
just been to London and they met the King yesterday.

(45:11):
So I've said to people, regardless of your view of
the moniker, keep that aside. Let's just celebrate that this
is a special moment for them to go and visit
the Kings and Katie. It's going to be a scorch
and run across the territory this weekend, so stay cool
and hydrate the people.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yeah, absolutely, Thank you also very much for your time
this morning.
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