The Week That Was – 1st December 2023

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is time for the week that was. What a
day to be back joining us in the studio this
morning from the COLP. Bill Yan, Good morning to.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
You, Katie, and good morning to the top end.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
And Robin Lamley joining us, the Member for our Loon,
Good morning to you, thanks for being here.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
A bit of an Alice Springs line up this morning.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
I except Matt Cunningham from Sky News, Good morning to
you mates, Morning Katie, and we've also got Brent Potter,
the Police Minister and the Member for Fanny Bay.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Good morning to you, Bran.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Katie.

Speaker 4 (00:27):
Is good to have Matt here at the Award Wing journalist.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes, he's over the accolades. He's sitting very quietly and uncomfortably. Anyway,
let's get into it because I tell you what, there
has been a lot happened throughout the week and I've
been keeping a bit of an eye on things from Tasmania.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yes I am a nerd and well.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
These changes to public drinking laws have passed the Northern
Territory Parliament to give police more powers to deal with
public drinking in a bid to tackle anti social behavior
and reduce alcohol related harm. Now those changes allow police
to issue seven day band drinker orders for public drinking
or disorderly behavior in high risk areas, and people have

(01:10):
got two chances when it comes to breaching the orders,
with a third breach triggering a three month alcohol band.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Now it's not the only thing that's changed.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
We now know police are going to be able to
check people's IDs, allowing them to also refer people to
various treatments, including sobering up shelters. I've got to say,
how this was not happening previously is quite mind boggling
to me, and something that I'd raised on the show
on numerous occasions, and I was told over and over
and over again that the two kilometer drinking rule or

(01:43):
the you know, not allowed to drink within that two
kilometers of a bottle shop, that it was still in place.
And then lo and behold last parliamentary sittings, we realized
that the Northern Territory government then said, oh no, we
did decriminalize it, and now here we go, OK.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Well, we are now.

Speaker 5 (02:03):
Monumental sized with a half pipe the.

Speaker 6 (02:09):
Part of the practicing their acrobatics this week, I was
gonna let everyone go around and just say, and I
get to go to it.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
There's no backflip. You let me explain it for those listeners.

Speaker 4 (02:20):
Because speaking of this experience, you know what, people need
to pull the legislation out sometimes and have a read
of it.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
So legislation had said that it was not a criminal
offense to drink in a public place, and so every
every time you guys kept saying, well you can't drink
within two kilometers of a bottle shop, it was bullshit,
weren't really bluntly.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
So that's very very clear the act of drinking alcohol
and the criminality of drinking alkoho in a public place
was removed.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
That's that is correct, But.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
You're it's a long time to admit to that.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
I've been on your show, and I think if you
bring up every one in my commentary, I've been very
clear on it. So I've never seen anything contrary to
the opera to that. I've never said anything contrary. I
would challenge you to pull up all my pieces on
here what i would say. Now, though, we've given police
the power that when they're engaging with someone who does
breach one seven mone of the Act by drinking alcohol
with it, whether it's two kilometers or.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Anywhere in Darwin.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
Catherine Alice Springs Tenant Creek, that they have the power
to arrest someone to find out who they are and
the reason we're doing it. We don't want to criminalize
the act of having a drink because, and this is
a contrast, the CLP do want to criminalize that piece.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
That is true. That is exactly what the bill.

Speaker 5 (03:29):
Let me finish.

Speaker 4 (03:30):
I'm going to get to the point where it becomes criminal, Robin,
I'm going to get to the point.

Speaker 5 (03:33):
When it becomes criminals.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
It isn't splitting hairs. This is a policy differentiation.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
Then is this is a policy difference between two parties
as we get to elections, that the listeners understand that
we won't criminalize drinking in a public place because that
means everyone that has to drink, everyone at each point
would have to be treated the same, and that's putting
mums and dads at the same as a problem drink
at ten o'clock in the morning. That's the other legislation.
What we're saying is when you're given a cord order,

(03:59):
a parole order, a DVO or a warrant, we need
to know who they're talking to. So at the point
in which a police officer rocks up tips out their
rog and says what's your name and you failed to
give it, they can arrest you, take you in to
determine who you are, and in many instances we're going
to start to find.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
People reaching out.

Speaker 7 (04:15):
There's no offense. I just tipped the grog out and
then move along.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
No, there is hod on.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
There is a consequence though, they'll go on the BDR
for seven days and we'll continue. The reason we brought
that in You why we've done that because I think
it's important. This is from police. They get sick of
going to the same tip out. So the methodology behind
this is put the person on the BDR, make it
harder for them to access outcome.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Look, I'll give you some leniency because obviously you've only
been the police minister for a short time, but the
community has been calling out for this for a long time.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
People have been going, well, hang on a sec.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
You keep telling us that people can't be intoxicated and
doing criminal things around the place. We kept being told
that over and over again, but it was continuing to happen.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
So for the general members of the public.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
They were going, you're telling us one thing, but the
other seems to be happening on.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
The street, that's not true. Section forty SI seven the
Summary Offenses out.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
That there's people can behaving in an anti social way
and that there hasn't been for some time.

Speaker 4 (05:09):
Saying that behavior is already contained with the Summary Offenses
Act for Disorderly Conduct, which is two thousand dollars fine
and six months.

Speaker 5 (05:16):
Imprisonment criminalizing drugts.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
That's been there for years, four years.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
The behavior, the behavior, disorderly conduct, the behavior.

Speaker 6 (05:23):
Listening to Nathan fin on Radio this morning, Ali Springs,
he's saying that the seven day BDAS is effectively nearly
impossible for the police to do in the current circumstances
because the new it system won't handle it. It won't
be up and rain to be able to handed probably
until March or opal next year. And govern knew about
this before they bought the legislation.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
That question, he.

Speaker 5 (05:43):
Said that the BDR is completely useless.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
So question, and then we go to the second one.

Speaker 8 (05:53):
Well, I've said for like eight years that the BDR
doesn't work. Every bit of evidence points to the fact
that it doesn't when it was introduced, first introduced in
twenty eleven, in the twelve months after alcohol fueld assaults
and hospital presentations went up when it was reintroduced in
twenty seventeen.

Speaker 7 (06:09):
Since then we've all seen what happened in alcohol fueld assaults.

Speaker 8 (06:13):
And hospital presentations, which are the real measure of success
for the BDR. And then when the Henderson government first
put it in in twenty eleven, that's how it was
going to measure it. And on alcohol fuel assaults and
hospital presentations they went up in that first twelve months
and the CLP scrapped it and everyone said, oh well,
you needed to give it longer to work, while we
brought it back in twenty seventeen and six years later

(06:33):
alcohol fueled emergency presentations and alcohol.

Speaker 7 (06:36):
Fueld assaults through the roof.

Speaker 8 (06:38):
So there is not a sceric of evidence that says
that the BDR works.

Speaker 7 (06:41):
So I know it's part of us suite of policies,
but it just no one can buy three ten s
that labor make it out to be.

Speaker 6 (06:49):
The b tour is right, it's one part, but said
we need to be dealing with the person.

Speaker 7 (06:54):
We need to be treating the person.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
In all the announcements that were made by the Northern
Territory government, this week. I mean, you know what we
have seen is there have been a number of different announcements.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
One of those in.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
Particular has really upset the hospitality industry because they were
not consulted, and that is the changes to the opening
hours of bottle shops. So it's no longer going to
be ten am, it's going to be midday. Now. I
know that plenty of people in the community will have
absolutely no impact on their lives. It would have no
impact on mine, but I do know a lot of
people that work in bottle shops. It's going to have

(07:27):
an impact on their working hours and their hours for
the week, and no doubt it's going to have an
impact on those businesses. The fact is, though, from what
Alex Bruce has said, there was no consultation with the
hospitality industry.

Speaker 6 (07:40):
Well just so he was given a promise that there
wouldn't be any changes like that, and the next day, bang,
here we're going to take two hours.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
Off every bit saying answered two things before I get
onto Alex Bruce and absolutely can talk to hospitality and
tea Bill. You're saying they need rehabilitation, so with your legislation,
they will be criminalized. And there is a pathway to prison,
and we don't want to try to imprison seeing that
hold on, Robin, you'll get your chance in the second.
You've worked in the prisons builds. You understand that drunk
shouldn't be in prison. You've said that before as well. Absolutely,

(08:07):
and man mandatory alcohol treatment programs didn't work the BDA.
You're right, it probably hasn't been as effective as it
needs to. We're making change to make it to make
it more effective. But let's be really clear. When someone's
on the BDR they can't go and buy it. Secondary
supply is an issue, and police will be targeting secondary
supply and this gives them the opportunity to bring those secondary.

Speaker 9 (08:25):
Supply individually negates the competitory supply.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
The detection threshold where police can get it out Springs,
and we increase the secondary supply, Robin.

Speaker 9 (08:34):
And I know that secondary supply absolutely negates any potential effectiveness.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
So the band drink is reached.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
That's secondary supplies. A criminal offense with one hundred penalty
point units.

Speaker 8 (08:44):
Well, and there are all seeds of a report that was
done a couple of years ago, and I can't remember
exactly who did it, but that that at least had
anecdotal evidence that the BDR was leading to an increase
in property crime because people who were on the BDR
were then breaking into businesses to try and get alcohol.
So I think not only as a BDR not worked,
but I think they have been property crime and I

(09:06):
think it needs a proper independent review, not from someone who's.

Speaker 7 (09:10):
Already thinks the BDR is a great thing.

Speaker 8 (09:11):
I think we need to go out and find someone
I don't know who or if the person exists, who
can do an absolute independent review of the bd R
and tell us whether it works or not. And I
would be pretty confident that the answer is it has
been anything but a success.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Pretty confident that the government is not going to do
that in the lead into an election as well.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
Mac on the.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
Topic of election. On the topic of an election, the
CLP is more than happy. I would suspect to put
a policy on the table the reneggs on the BDR
and brings back criminalizing drinking in a public place. I
know Robin has already said she would reneg on the
BDR and remove it. So if you're going to join
the CLP party come next election, sure that must be

(09:51):
at policy of the party. Come on, Robin, you're going
to go back for the numbers, surely.

Speaker 6 (09:57):
So yeah, yesterday in that press the man, we're pretty
clear that we look at the BDR, review it and
look at its effectiveness. Of the jury's in build it's in.
I see the effects of the BDR and al the
springs and robins right. The levels of secondary supply of
absolutely skyrocketed in the last six months.

Speaker 7 (10:16):
It's astronomical. You see the stuff that's going on in town.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
I see it.

Speaker 6 (10:20):
I have people bring it to me and I've passed
it intel onto police for them to action. But it's
so big.

Speaker 7 (10:25):
It's at a point now where police are having.

Speaker 6 (10:27):
A age difficulty dealing with it that there's just so
much going on around the town and out in the communities.
It's yeah, it's this has been driven by the restrictions
and the policy.

Speaker 7 (10:38):
I think the BDR should go.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Then come on Bell position now and I think we've
got an election.

Speaker 6 (10:46):
Can I've always said that the BDR doesn't go far enough,
so it changes, and I've.

Speaker 7 (10:50):
Always been saying that.

Speaker 6 (10:52):
For a kid who's found on the streets in the
middle of the night and plase have got to take
him home to a responsible adult, and that responsible adult
can't care for that kid because they're under the loms
of alcohol. Those adults of those parents should go on
the BDR. We need to look at how the BDR
is being implemented and it could be done better, and
it could be expanded to then pick people up and
then focus treatment options for them through that proch.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Which is what's already happening. So you've literally just confirm
the policy. You've literally just confirmed policians might have an
alternative which probably.

Speaker 9 (11:26):
Waste precious government resources on a strategy called the band
Drinkers Register that is ineffective. Why wouldn't you move on
to the next strategy, try something different, give something a go,
because what we're got, we've got now clearly is well.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
And I'll call it.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
I think it's because they're tinkering around the edges at
the moment and there seems to be a bit of
a bit of apprehensiveness or scaredness to be able to
do something that is, you know, quite courageous to really
have an impact on the issues that we're seeing here
in the Northern Territory.

Speaker 4 (11:57):
Courageous, right like, And I'm not saying we're in any way,
shape or form.

Speaker 9 (12:00):
Being courageous, spreads courageous five.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
Words, and I just said that I wasn't saying it
was us. Come on, let me finish, mate.

Speaker 9 (12:08):
Treatment was courageous. It was the most courageous policy the review.
Read the review. I read the review because half of
the review said it was bad and half the review
said it was good. Read it closely. It didn't damn
the whole thing. But in twenty twelve when we implemented it,
it was the most courageous, unprecedented strategy or initiative looking

(12:30):
at habitual drunks public drunkenness.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
At the time, I think it's in the eye of
the beholder.

Speaker 4 (12:35):
But what I would say is last Christmas, when the
alcohrestrictions lifting Alice, we saw the increase in our alcoholildviolence,
and I could acknowledge that it was acknowledged Christmas between
us and the federal government. Probably didn't get that right
at the timing, no doubt about. I've come out and
said that openly before.

Speaker 5 (12:51):
Still to come and shake you up and so wake
up to you, sir Rebin.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
There's nothing to yell. We're in the same room. And
then we get to Christmas.

Speaker 9 (12:59):
This year and need to be patronized by year brain.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Okay, well you yell.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
So we get to Christmas this year, we've got advice
from the Police Commissioner that he needs to see would
like to see restrictions to get ahead of the Christmas period.
We've seen significant numbers for people from Central Desert region
coming up into Darwin through the return to country where
we don't have alcohol restrictions. We've seen a spike in
alcohol fiel advance and domestic violence.

Speaker 9 (13:18):
Do you really know what you're talking about? Have you
just read the briefing that you've got two weeks ago.
When you've got a good you're talking out of your bum.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
I think I'm talking to the facts. Robin.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
Well, look, one thing is certain.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
The text line is going absolutely off this morning.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
People are very glad that the show is back, but
it's not. Look, it's not the only thing.

Speaker 8 (13:45):
Question because you dismissed minatary alcohol treatment. But the Police
Commissioner at press conference on Monday, he said we need
a health response to public junkness. Right, and this is
this seems to be like a view of cross the board.
You know, we shouldn't criminalize that. We need a health
response well, isn't mandatary alcohol treatment the response? I mean,

(14:05):
then when I asked the Police Comission of that question,
he ran away from the microphone as quickly as he
could and asked the Chief Minister to answer, and she
decided that report that Robin was talking about. But I mean,
why do we dismiss mandatory alcohol treatment out of hand
if we are in agreement that there needs to be
a health response to this issue.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
Because we don't do it for any other drugs, because
you know, someone has to voluntarily want to get off
the substance. I think where we could be going down
the path and not the Health ministry.

Speaker 5 (14:27):
We do it for volatile substances.

Speaker 9 (14:29):
Hold on, let me treatment for substances question, because what
you're saying is not true.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
Okay, Robin, Look what I would say is we need
to be looking. We need to be looking at where
we deliver those rehab services. And it can't just be
in dar On, Alice Springs, Tenant Creek. It needs to
be out on community. And I think there's a lot
more work we can do through things like the local
decision making agreements and the life to get Aboriginal health

(14:57):
organizations deliver more services in community because we know when
they're in town there is a greater likelihood to access
to alcohol they're away from.

Speaker 9 (15:04):
Have you been in government seven and a half years
and what have you done in this space, Zip.

Speaker 7 (15:09):
I'll talk to what I've done in this space for
them in the last twenty two years.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Well, look again, I will say that there has been
a number of announcements by the Northern Territory government this week.
Another one of those was the OC spray for bottle shops,
So equipping security guards at bottle shops was also passed
in in the last sittings of the year. Keeping well,
basically it is going to mean it's aiming to provide
security additional ways to protect themselves, retail workers and the

(15:35):
community when confronted with dangerous situations.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
I've got to tell you, you know, like I'm not opposed
to this happening.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
You know, I think we need to give people the
tools that they require to be able to manage what
can be incredibly dangerous situations. But you know, what is
going on around the place is out of control. Like seriously,
after stepping away for a couple of weeks and being
in another state, and I know that we hear from
the government all the time that other occasions have their
own issues with crime, and yeah, they do, but you

(16:03):
do not see the level of antisocial behavior and lawlessness
that we are experiencing in the Northern Territory at the moment.
And sometimes I think you do have to step away
for a moment to actually realize how bad things have gotten.
So again, I will say, you know, all of these
different things, they may well work, they may be good,
but I feel like we're tinkering around the edges and

(16:24):
we're mucking around and in the process, you know, we
have got so many wonderful people that live in this place,
so many wonderful people that want this place to succeed.
But at the moment, we're just like we are struggling.

Speaker 6 (16:36):
Were where are we at, Katie, as a community when
we've had to arm people work in our retail space
to protect themselves and customers, And that's what we've come to.

Speaker 7 (16:45):
And it's pretty sad that we've actually had to get
to that.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Well, we're not the only state bills are.

Speaker 4 (16:49):
Just to clarify for your listeners, Katie, the WA has
this provisionary But what I'm saying is what I'm saying
is that there's a precinct about handing over this type
of equipment to security guards. And I would love to
see no requirement to have private security in our cities
and our bottle shops and have more police. And that's
a discussion I've had with the NTPR. I'm in agreement
with them. I don't want to see a second tier
police force. But right now, while we recruit more police

(17:10):
officers get them back to work, we need to have
a stopgap. It was a commitment after Deck and Lab
and then we've delivered on that.

Speaker 7 (17:17):
I happened delivered in All Springs. Mate again this morning.

Speaker 6 (17:20):
It was highlight after the Prime Minister and achievements that
came to Al Springs and Christmas and promise thirty more
police officers at that point in time, At this point
in time today, we're three officers down on those numbers
at Christmas extra.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
So let me just go.

Speaker 5 (17:38):
Radio this morning saying that we have.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
We have been given the money to hire thirty officers
and fifteen palis. You can't just click your fingers and
have thirty officers appear out of nowhere.

Speaker 5 (17:48):
We need to check itsuary.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Do you know the capacity of the college to.

Speaker 5 (17:53):
Track it down from where we were.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
I think it's a very simple thing to say that.

Speaker 5 (17:58):
Radio Alice Springs.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
Graduated one hundred and seven OFSS last year. We're going
to have over another hundred plus into the next year.
We're continuing to recruit above atrition. Don't get me wrong,
I don want to see a single loss of leave,
and that was some of the reforms I did.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Look, we are going to catch up with Nathan Finn
after ten o'clock this morning. I've got a message here
from Jerry Wood. It says mandatory alcohol detention was a
good Samaritan law that tried to help people out of
the gutter who couldn't help themselves. There was an opportunity
to be treated for other health problems. It also removed
people who were a nuisance because of grog. It may
have cost a lot, but the alcohol industry can pay you.

Speaker 9 (18:30):
Reckon It's Jen Jerry, because I feel very proud of
the fact that I was the minister who rolled that
out and it helped a lot of people. It saved
a lot of lives. Yes, it was expensive, Yes, people absconded.
Yes it didn't necessarily solve their drinking problems, but it
did actually help a lot of people habitual drunks to
change their lives.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Robin, do you think that that is the kind of
thing that we need now, that kind of you know,
leadership that people may not necessarily like, they may not
necessarily agree with. But do you think that you know
that the government needs to do something.

Speaker 9 (19:04):
Like that in the Northern territory. I think change it,
modify it, make it better, look at the review, try
and improve what we did all those years ago. But
to completely delete it as an option, particularly now when
people are saying we have to have a health response
is irresponse.

Speaker 6 (19:21):
It can't be dismissed out of hand. We can't keep
doing the same thing and expect different results. We said
we need to make some changes, We need to make
some hard decisions, and we need to deal with the
problem drunks rather than actually deal with the product.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
And that's what I seem to do, is deal with
the product.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
That's the pros that is going to be a different
differentiator between us and the SEALP going into the election.
We do have forty beds in the sobering upshelter and
forty four rehab. There is definitely plans of foot we
can look at how can we get more people from
sobering up walking across into the rehab.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
But I got't want to do it.

Speaker 5 (19:51):
Themselves voluntarily across the Northern Territory.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, I'm talking.

Speaker 4 (19:56):
About the one in Darwin and when we talk about
people well and get the details the one if there's
for the stuff in Alice Springs. But what I would
say is if someone doesn't want to be rehabilitated, well
then they're not going to get the outcome that we need.
We need voluntary so that the plan needs to beat.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
That they love them on the streets.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
That's what I'm saying is when they get taken to
the sobering up shelter, the intent behind that is that
when they become sober the next day, that discussion has
had through Mission Australia at the moment to come over
and do rehab. So we want to get them at
a time when they're actually thinking clearly to say come
and do voluntary rehab.

Speaker 9 (20:25):
All right, we take drunks three months to think clearly.
That's the evidence. That was the a medical evidence.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
Those same people are constantly going to the sobering ups shelter.
They're not unknown to the staff there and every engagement
has had there with the same people, but forcing someone
into treatment doesn't get the outcome.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
We are going to have to take a very short break.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
You're listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was. Well, if you've just
joined us, iron back and the week that was is
back in the studio with us this morning.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
We've got Brent.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
Potter, Matt Cunningham, Robin Lamley and Bill Yan and I
tell you what.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
It's been a.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Massive week by the look of things, and the Northern
Territory well Northern Territory labor MPs have accused the Country
Liberal Party throughout the week of demonizing Aboriginal people over
its opposition to an Indigenous voice to Parliament. So the
colp's parliamentary leader has described the criticism as gutter politics
from a government that's desperate to hold on to power.

(21:18):
That is according to a report by Matt Cunningham, who
was in the studio with us.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Matt, what exactly happened?

Speaker 8 (21:24):
Well, I thought it was interesting on Tuesday in question
time Katie, because obviously the government is trying to bring
itself back to the center in Darwin and Palmerston and
Alice Springs because I think it's worried that it's got
a crime issue. Yet at the same time, in question time,
it was really going in the other direction and attacking

(21:47):
the CLP. So what it was doing it was getting
its Aboriginal backbenches d Ran Young and Manuel Brown to
ask questions of the Attorney General and the Infrastructure Minister.
And then they were basically getting up and calling this
LP paraphrasing here, but calling them a bunch of racists
because they opposed the Voice and they're opposing treaty. So
to me, it seemed that like it feels to me

(22:08):
like labor is trying to tell one story to people
in Darwin and Palmerston. You know, we're cracking down on
Aboriginal people who are engaged in antisocial behavior, public drunkenness,
et cetera. And yet you know, they're sort of talking
out the other side of their mouth, sort of trying
to say to people in the Bush because as we know,
they're trying to come after your seat, Bill and they
think they're a chance of winning back Steve Edgington's Sea

(22:29):
to Barkley and so I think that at the same
time they're trying to say, you know, this, the CLP
over here a bunch of racists. They opposed the Voice
to Parliament, they opposed treaty, you know, and therefore you shouldn't,
you know, if you're an Aboriginal person, you shouldn't vote
for them in a pink fit.

Speaker 7 (22:44):
So you know, that was basically the crux of the story.

Speaker 8 (22:47):
I just thought it was interesting to watch what the
labor strategy was in question Time around that, and then
I think it happened. I wasn't watching, but I did
see one clip yesterday from I think it was in
question Time where Chancey Pake, the Attorney General, called Joe
Hersey a racist, homophobic bigot or something along those lines,
and then Ushink was eventually forced to withdraw the comment.

Speaker 6 (23:09):
The behavior this week has been is pretty appalling, and
it has been absolute guard to politics. It seems that
the whole deal was and I think a number of
people have hit it on the head that if you
don't agree with labor, they'll come out.

Speaker 7 (23:19):
And call you a racist.

Speaker 6 (23:22):
John pretty upset about that too, because I represent a
bush electric I'm pretty close to the people out in
the bush and for.

Speaker 7 (23:28):
To be labeled by labor as a racist. It really
really gets up to it.

Speaker 8 (23:32):
Do you think they built I mean, I haven't looked
at the booths in your electric closely, but most in
most Aboriginal communities they've ated strongly in favor of the voice.
Do you think the fact that the CLP opposed the
voice could hurt you at the next territory election.

Speaker 6 (23:48):
Labor will certainly be using it against just during the election,
I have absolutely no doubt about that. But when you
look at the boost out in the bush, the turnout
was really real. It was really low, and particularly leading
in to the referendum and talking to people out in
the bush, most of my communities were pretty well split
down the middle.

Speaker 7 (24:05):
Some supported that, some didn't.

Speaker 6 (24:07):
And I look, and I can't say for certain, but
when people particularly so, I.

Speaker 8 (24:11):
Think the people who didn't vote were people who didn't
support it.

Speaker 6 (24:14):
I think so because when people don't support something, particularly
people out in the bush, You're like, I don't agree
with that, I'm not going to go out and vote.

Speaker 4 (24:20):
So just because I'm test to that. The question was Bill,
do you think it will hurt you? And the answer
is no, you don't believe it will.

Speaker 6 (24:30):
I'm saying I have no doubt the labor are going
to use it against myself in Edgington and any serial
p member who runs in the bush.

Speaker 7 (24:36):
I have absolutely no doubt.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
In the process, I wonder what political impact it's going
to have on labor then in urban areas where people
are going hang on a second, you're telling us one
thing and.

Speaker 8 (24:46):
That's in their strategy. And Brent will disagree with me,
but this is my take on their strategy. They want
people in Darwen and Palmerston to hear as much from
this bloke on my left as they possibly can, because
I reckon, you know, he resonates pretty well with them,
and they want people in the bush. I mean, I
reckon they'll be cutting up the clips of Chancey and

(25:07):
Joel and they'll be sending them out to people in
the bush going, oh, I have a look at this
in Parliament.

Speaker 7 (25:11):
I reckon. They're sort of trying to tell two stories
at the moment, which.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Is always a tough juggle.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
You know, it works to some degree, but it's going
to be a tough juggle and you know you run
the risk of ending up with no credibility whatsoever if
you're saying one thing to one group of people and
to another group.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
Of what I said on your show, I think when
we're doing it the voices, I would never tell anyone
how to vote. And at the end of the day,
that was a referendum for a reason. Everyone had their
own decision to make and I was never going to
tell someone one way or the other. And PERHP got
up just over fifty percent and lad Miller didn't.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
But from my perspective, the referendum's done.

Speaker 4 (25:43):
We now need just need to move on from personally,
just need to move on and deal with costly men crime.

Speaker 9 (25:49):
That yeah, from the perspective of your colleagues that we
saw in Parliament this week, that is not the view
of your colleagues.

Speaker 5 (25:57):
Having a bed each way.

Speaker 9 (25:58):
They're using the race card, which I always think is
incredibly desperate. It's pretty underhanded. The way that they were
carrying on was quite vile and derogatory. The rant from
chasey Peik, the Attorney General in Parliament yesterday was just
gobsmackingly rude and disrespectful, and it's all about using a

(26:22):
race card to win votes.

Speaker 4 (26:24):
What I would say is the discussion that came up
was in relation to a question around the Antidiscrimination Act,
which you guys have said you repeal, and that obviously
gets certain people on our side quite emotional because they
are from particular demographics that that bill is there to
help protect. What I would say at the end of
the day that no one was called a racist, and
if that was happened, I believe.

Speaker 8 (26:43):
Was it said clearly I didn't hear that. That's fine,
not on Tuesday. No one was called directly a racist
on Tuesday. I think the comment from Joel Bowden on
Tuesday was that the CLP ostracizes and demonizes Aboriginal people.
And the comment from Chancey Paike is that the seal
is that Aboriginal people under a CELP government won't have

(27:05):
a seat at the table.

Speaker 7 (27:07):
They will be they'll be on the menu. That was
That was.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
The represents a very strong and very strong.

Speaker 9 (27:17):
And he's the first law Officer of the Northern Territory
to hear the first law officer, the Attorney General of
the Northern Territory make those sorts of statements in Parliament
about people being racist and homophobic and bigoted.

Speaker 5 (27:31):
Is really so.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
Jump in because you're not immune from some of the
comments you make about people on that floor, Robin, and
you've been asked.

Speaker 5 (27:40):
To attract quote quote me.

Speaker 4 (27:42):
I'm more than happy to get the stuff you said
about the Deputy Chief Minister on that floor and have
been as attract has been discussing before as well.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
And what so what I'm saying.

Speaker 9 (27:50):
I think you're making things up brand if I'm more
than there is bloody for what I'll say is.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
I think if you're trying to make a point and
you've got to lower yourself to derogatory comments to to
somebody else, it's you know, it's very hard to get
your point across, and it shows that you're not actually
able to articulate it well you know whoever and wherever
that is. But particularly when you're talking about things like
the voice, you know, to call people racist because you're
not able to get your point across, I don't think.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
The right way.

Speaker 8 (28:22):
There's a certain irony as well, when when what's being
debated are laws that are supposed to stop people making
offensive and insulting comments, and.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
That is to unleasure. Heaps no doubt about that.

Speaker 4 (28:41):
It's not the only specifically what he said, but if
he called someone a racist and he wasn't ass attract
that's that's he was.

Speaker 9 (28:48):
He was asked by Joe Hersey to retract and he said,
I will retract biggoted racist and then he said, but
I'll call the CELP that So he didn't really retract
anything and he was allowed to get away.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Well, and look, it's not the only thing that's happened
in Parliament in terms of some of that chaotic behavior
by the look of things. Late Wednesday, when the Labor
government turned well on Speaker Mark Monahan after a row
over verv, after a row of some fancy champagne.

Speaker 9 (29:17):
What happened this was incredible, Katie the Member for Drystar.
The Education Minister was interjecting while the Opposition leader was
speaking to the point where she was told to shut up.
She didn't, and it was about comments about verve. The

(29:38):
Opposition leader tried to paraphrase what the Education Minister was
rattling on about and she said, I think she said
something like I think the Education Minister wants to have
a glass of verve.

Speaker 5 (29:50):
The place erupted.

Speaker 9 (29:53):
Lawla was thrown out and one by one the Labor
Minister stood up and argued with the Speaker about throwing
Lawla out to the point where minister. Our kid then
attempted to dissent against the speaker. I've been in that
place for thirteen years. I have never seen anyone attempt

(30:14):
to descent against the speakers.

Speaker 5 (30:16):
That is a big move.

Speaker 9 (30:17):
It was so incredibly disrespectful, but so incredibly entertaining Katie
because it was.

Speaker 5 (30:26):
Dysfunction. They all lost their shit and it was incredible.

Speaker 4 (30:29):
So what I would say is that people are blowing it.
I wasn't on the floor right, so I'll own I
missed it all come out afterwards. What I would say
is that it was from what I'm told, it was
dissent in relation to the ruling by the speaker. Well, no, no,
but you would agree there are two things that relate
to the speaker. The first one is an emotion no
confidence or descent into ruling. And let's be clear, yesterday,

(30:51):
for example, on my two bills, at the end of it,
the Member for Mulka put a descent on record that
he didn't support the outcome of the vote.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
And so it does happened.

Speaker 5 (31:00):
What are you talking about relating all this to the Member.

Speaker 10 (31:03):
For Moor, your members against your speaker, your labor speaker.

Speaker 5 (31:13):
You turned on him.

Speaker 9 (31:14):
The poor Blake was sitting there, white, shrunk before our
very eyes, thinking, these guys, my.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Friends are making a story, Robin.

Speaker 5 (31:22):
But I guess I was there.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Politics that we turned on him.

Speaker 4 (31:29):
It was over the ruling to remove even now I
wasn't in the room, so I didn't I wasn't even
involved in it. But what I would say is that
there's no grander story of turning on the speaker.

Speaker 8 (31:39):
I'd make three quick observations. I had three in my
head and.

Speaker 7 (31:45):
One.

Speaker 8 (31:47):
Labor in twenty sixteen promised as part of their restoring
integrity government and independent speaker.

Speaker 7 (31:54):
We don't have one anymore.

Speaker 8 (31:55):
Now there and now they're trying to move motions to overrule.

Speaker 7 (31:58):
Their own speaker.

Speaker 8 (32:00):
So that's a pretty extraordinary turn of events over seven years.
Two I can't remember, and three and three. One of
the observations that I've heard made since, and I don't
I don't have this knowledge myself, but I have heard

(32:20):
it discussed by others is that there may be some
disquiet in the Labor camp about the fact that Mark
Monaghan was overlooked for the two cabinets speaker cabinet positions
by Brent and Joel, who were promoted above.

Speaker 7 (32:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 8 (32:32):
Whether that is what's going on, but it seemed to
be there did seem to be.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Some Look, we are going to have to take a
very short break. You are listening to the week that
wasn't in the studio this morning. We've got Billy and
Robin Lamley, Matt Cunningham and Brent Potter and tell you
what well I did not while I was away that
there was a poll conducted nine months out from the
next Northern Territory election and found that the Labor government

(33:00):
is less than half as popular as the Country Liberal Party.
I believe that you had reported on this. Six hundred
territorians in Darwin, Ala Springs and some rural areas were
surveyed for the poll between November sixteen and eighteen. It
was conducted by Melbourne based company Redbridge. I got the
phone call the day before I left or Yeah, for Tasmania.

(33:22):
I got one of those phone calls and I thought, oh.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
Hang on a sec this has been conducted.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
First off, I thought, oh, it's been conducted by the
Labor Party, and I thought, oh, hang on, this has
been conducted by the COLP.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Then I thought hang on a second.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
As some more of the questions got asked, I thought
it must be you know, some kind of of not
community group, but some kind of organization maybe looking to
find some more information out about about domestic violence funding
and that kind of thing, because a lot of the
questions were really quite extensive, you know, there was like
there was a lot of questions asked. It wasn't just

(33:56):
too are you going to vote for or you know
what political part. There was a lot of questions about
police resourcing and all sorts of things. So I find
it quite fascinating now the result that's come through. I
know that polls, you know, can mean very little at
different times.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
But Matt, what did you make of it?

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Well?

Speaker 8 (34:13):
I did speak to kas Samaras, who conducted the poll
for red Bridge. He's a former labor strategist, and I
did ask him who had commissioned the poll because and
I did ask him why there was the focus on
social services. But he did say that Redbridge commissioned the
pole itself, and he said it would do a couple
more before the next election. And it's interesting because we
don't often get piling here. I mean, it's you know,

(34:35):
I mean, there's a few caveats with the Pole one.
You know, really the only polled people in Darwen and
Alice Springs. It's difficult to poll people in the bushes,
we know, although he did say that he had a
really high pick up rate. He said when they poll
in other states and territories, a lot of people just
hang up the phone straight away when they know it's
a polster, whereas here most most people he said that
they spoke to were keen to answer the questions. And

(34:57):
he thought that was because we don't have poll for Tea.
We're not getting those calls all the time. And maybe
it's because we don't get polled a lot. You know,
people are keen to have their say. It was six
hundred and one people with a margin of era of
five point four percent, So I mean, you know, you
need to put all those caveats in place, and you
also need to remember, you know, the advantage of incumbency

(35:19):
here in the Northern Territory. If you're a good local member,
you can work your electorate and even if your parties
on the nase, you can still win. But I think
the numbers were a bit of a worry for Labor
and I actually think they've been a little bit rattled
by them in the last week.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Very keen to hear from our listeners this morning centers
a message if you like, let us know what electorate
you're in and who are you going to vote for.
'll be keen to get a bit of an idea
of how people are feeling out there.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
I mean, Brent, was it a surprise.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
I think you shouldn't be a shocked anyone when you
get polling.

Speaker 4 (35:47):
I think what it should be is when you get
polling like this, you know you need to take you
need to look at how the poll has been conducted.
I think what I'm more concerned about is any polls
that come closer to the election we're getting to the
end of the year. I think there was some discrepancies
in the poll, but I wouldn't use that as a
reason to discredit. I think we just need to take
it that we need to do better in certain areas,
but it doesn't detract, at least personally from me as
the minister, what I'm focused on, and that's reducing crime.

Speaker 6 (36:10):
I think the polls a reflection of how this Labor
government's been doing during this term, and I think if
you've got to look at it in the bigger picture too,
said I had in the last twenty two years Labor
have been in power, and we've seen where we've gone
from two thousand and one to where we are now.
There's been an increase and steady increase in crime. You
just got to look at our budget and said we're

(36:30):
we're forecasts will be ten point one.

Speaker 7 (36:32):
Three billion dollars in debt and people have had enough.
You should be ham and Haes. Then Bill?

Speaker 6 (36:37):
Should you oh certain politics?

Speaker 7 (36:41):
Matt, we know that droves dog? Is it? What's that? Well?
Do you think the people win the next election?

Speaker 5 (36:47):
No?

Speaker 6 (36:47):
No, I can't sit here and say I'd love to
see her and say we're going to win the next election.
We've got work to do and we'll be working hard
to make sure that we're providing alternative government for territories
because that's what.

Speaker 7 (36:57):
We need to do. I don't think we can survive
another four years of blow.

Speaker 9 (37:00):
I think the Labor Party should be extremely worried about
that polling result. Yes, it's early days and things can
twist around, but I think what we saw over the
last week in Parliament, the behavior of the Labor members
would indicate very clearly to most people that they are rattled,
they're worried, and they're starting to unravel.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Now, Matt, I know you're right about this on the weekend,
and well you certainly mentioned this on the weekend and
said that, you know, elections are not often decided upon
based on crime. But I think what we've seen over
the last couple of years, and again you're right about
this as well, is it's not just sort of been crime,
but it's been that real element of people not feeling
personally safe anymore, and that personal safety really seeping into

(37:46):
people's everyday lives. So I do wonder what kind of
impact that is going to have.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
But what we're going to.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
See in urban areas and then what we're going to
see out in the bush. And you know, let's be honest,
I've only got a few weeks left now until the
end of the year the last parliament has sat for
the we step into you know, January February next year,
it is election mode.

Speaker 8 (38:05):
Yeah, And the point that you make about crime and elections,
I think there is this great myth in the Northern
Territory that Northern Territory elections are won and lost on
crime and whichever party can be toughest on crime wins
the election and that parties you know trying you know, history,
if you have a good look at it would show
that's not true. I think the last election was a
COVID election. The one before that was a referendum on

(38:26):
the CLP government, and if you go back to twenty twelve,
that was actually a cost of living election. Yeah, you know,
twenty twelve, the economy was booming, we were riding the
impects wave, but the concerns that people had in urban
areas where that the cost of buying a house and
the cost of renting a place was absolutely going through
the roof. You couldn't get a tradee because you know,

(38:47):
it costs your five hundred bucks to get someone to
come and fix a leaking tap.

Speaker 7 (38:51):
And Terry Mills campaigned on that.

Speaker 8 (38:53):
And also in twenty twelve there was a revolt against
labor in the Bush and that was largely due to
super shies.

Speaker 7 (39:01):
So I think it's interesting.

Speaker 8 (39:02):
I think the Bush is going to be really interesting
to watch in this election because the COLP is saying
we're going to wind back some of that when it
comes to local government, but they're also opposing treaty, so
you can see how this is going to play out.
Labor is going to attack them for opposing the Voice
and opposing treaty. CLP in the Bush is going to
try and make the case, well, we're undoing the super
shy legislation that you all hated so much from back

(39:23):
in two thousand and seven. And then I think in
the urban areas there is going to be crime is
going to be an issue because of that issue you
raised before.

Speaker 7 (39:31):
I mean, I've been.

Speaker 8 (39:32):
A victim of petty crime in the last few months.
I think everyone either has been or knows someone who
has been. And I just think, and the point that
Cos Samarus made is that when you've already got a
cose cost of living crisis, when people are struggling more
to pay the mortgage, to pay the bills, et cetera,
and then you get that crime issue laid on top
of that, that really.

Speaker 6 (39:55):
Crime, the crime, the crime stuff exacerbates cost of living issues.
So the cost of living is going up and we're
probably going to see another RBA increase prior at the
end of the year, so and that's going to of
course affect inflation. And then you've got the stuff that
people are dealing with in their homes and their businesses
with the cost of crime having effect. I got done

(40:16):
over two or three weeks ago. House got broken into stuff,
smashed up stuff style, and like, I'm step further springs,
but that's a cost on my pocket as well. I've
got to fix my house, I've got to replace the
stuff that's been stolen, and that comes.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Off my world.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
And look, I think it's a step further in fact
with the crime in that you know, if you're raising
your family here and you've got young kids here, you
want your children to be able to live their lives
and do so in a safe manner. You want to
know that you can send your kids if they want
to go with their mates to Casarina or if they
need to catch the bus somewhere, that they can do
so safely. And at the moment, I think a lot
of us as parents really don't feel that level of

(40:54):
confidence to be able to have our young people, if
you're raising your kids here, to be able to do
those stiff, diferent things that were a rite of passage
for a lot of us growing up. You know, I
grew up in Mountain Eiser. It was rough as guts,
but I could walk home without fear of getting rolled.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
So I'd completely agree with you, Cading.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
I came on your show and i said, measure me
on my actions, and I've got a bunch of work
to do before next year to get to a point
where people feel safe for their.

Speaker 7 (41:17):
Kids to go out.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
I completely agree with you, and we agree crime stats
are too high.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
And I've given my two priorities, which is supporting police
gaining the resources toill do what they need, but also
when you call the copy, you get a coop. And
we're working towards that now with the commission that starts
with the reduction in retention, and we're seeing that we're
down from we're down to about seven percent in the
sevens for constable separation rates before COVID, before twenty nine
it was six percent, So we're seeing a change within
the Northern Territory Police Force. What I would say though,

(41:42):
is the SEALP at some point needs to get their
policies out and say how they're going to address cost
of living. Because we've come out with that, we can
demonstrate how we deal with cost of living and that's
not selling off our utilities and making sure that territories
aren't paying more for their power. Everyone else in the
country has gone up by about fifteen percent on their
power bills.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
We've capped at two point seven percent.

Speaker 4 (41:59):
Can do that because we didn't sell off our utilities,
and that's what they see people do and they said that,
So unless you've got an alternate policy bill, I'd love
to see it.

Speaker 5 (42:09):
No one sold off the utilities, but hold on.

Speaker 9 (42:13):
And the bottom line is brand no one would buy
our utilities because.

Speaker 5 (42:18):
They're financially unviable.

Speaker 9 (42:21):
And if you did your homework, you would know that
no human being in their right mind would buypower, water,
Jaicana or Territory generation.

Speaker 7 (42:31):
The real.

Speaker 5 (42:32):
And the Northern Territory.

Speaker 9 (42:34):
Has changed dramatically under this labor government and a lot
of us are feeling very very unhappy.

Speaker 5 (42:40):
And whilst we hear.

Speaker 9 (42:41):
The words of the brand new, shiny police Minister reassuring
us that he's going to turn it all around, people
do not believe you, because they have suffered for two lives.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
And I need to demonstrate that to the through actions.
I would not disagree with you one bit, Robin, and
that my words have to be matched up with my
actions and the results.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Absolutely we are going to have to a very quick break.
You're listening to Mix one O four nines three sixty.
It is the week that was. What an hour of
power this morning has been, I'll tell you what, Bill.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
Yeah, thank you very much for your time.

Speaker 6 (43:11):
Teams, Katie and I won't be back up until next year,
so I wish everybody up here and merry Christmas, and
I hope everyone has a wonderful fish too.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Mate.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
We'll see you in the new year. Robert Lamley, the
Independent member for Aara.

Speaker 9 (43:21):
Lun Thank you, Katie, and thank you for keeping us
honest all here.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
Well, we'll see you then and I try my best,
as does Matt Cunningham.

Speaker 7 (43:32):
Thank you, Matte, Thanks Katie and Brent.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
Posher, thank you for your time this morning.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Thanks Katie. I'm sure I'll be on before Christmas.

Speaker 9 (43:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Great to catch up a couple more times.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Absolutely, thank you all so much. You are listening to
Mix one O four nines three sixty