The Week That Was - 1st August 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Time for the week that was, and we've got rips
from our regional, our rural and our remote areas. Today
we have got for the Labor Party the member for Guaja.
I think I pronounced it wrong again, Chancey, Good morning
to you.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Good morning Katie.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
We've got Jared, mainly from the rural area. He is
also the Deputy Chief Fister. Good morning to you, Jared,
Good morning Katy. And we've also got Robin Lamley, the
Independent Member for Oura Lon and also the Speaker of
the Northern Territories Legislative Assembly.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Good morning, good morning Katie.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
I tell you wash you guys have given me no
shortage of things to talk about this week. It's been
a busy, busy show, but not as busy as what
it's been for you inside Parliament House. And we might
kick off with the fact that changes to the Youth
Justice Legislation did indeed pass through Parliament overnight aimed at

(00:52):
youth offending now. These key changes include courts now being
able to consider a youth's full criminal history when sentencing
adult offenses, removing detention as the last resort, so courts
no longer need to exhaust all alternatives before commanding a youth,
stronger powers for youth justice officers to use anti spit
guards and reasonable force to maintain safety and prevent escapes,

(01:17):
as well as expanded powers for the Commissioner to manage
emergencies aligning with the Correctional Services Act. Now, there is
no doubt that there are some who are concerned about
the changes that Children's Commissioner raising concerns about them, saying
that she's worried that the rewrite of the Act is
going to miss this critical opportunity well to make sure

(01:38):
that the Act is contemporized. But then on the other hand,
we have got victims of youth crime who have been
screaming out for change.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
It is.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
You know, whether you like the changes or you don't,
there is no doubt that the government is doing what
they said they were going to do.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
Yeah, Cartie, this is about community safety. I think no
matter where you live in the Northern Chartory people have
had enough. Crime has been going up through the roof
over the last eight years. We were elected about eleven
months ago to bring that down and the figures are
coming down, Katie. They're not coming out as cook as
we'd like. Because it's a big ship to turn around,
but there're certainly trending in the right direction. And this
is about community safety. It's about the safety of the

(02:20):
youth justice workers, It's about the safety of the detainees
and also the safety the other detainees inside those premises,
because if a small event breaks out, it seems to
be people all join in and people get hurt, and
we want to make sure that community safety is in
one priority. We don't want to damage tax payers facilities.
So this is about making sure that we move forward
to give everyone the opportunity to do the right thing

(02:41):
in the correction space.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Chancey, I know that you were certainly opposed to elements
of it. Did the labor opposition end up supporting the
legislation over eyes or opposing.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Look, Katie, certainly we had concerns about it. We opposed
the legislation. We didn't support the legislation. Their deputy Chief
ministers talking this morning about victims and listening to the victims, Well,
victims want a measures that are going to work. If
you look at the government's own admission they're spending over
three thousand dollars a day to have a young person

(03:14):
in detention, and the recidivism rate of those young people
is not coming down. So people actually want programs, They
want diversion, and they want the boot camps that this
government promised them. They promised boot camps in Alice Springs.
Eleven months on, we do not have a single boot
camp in operation in Alice Springs for these young people

(03:34):
to address and change their behavior.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Chancy, it would be remiss of me to not say that.
Will you also promise that there was going to be
programs in place before you guys made legislative changes. That
doesn't make it right or wrong. I'm not saying that
it does. And I take on board the point that
you've made there about those boot camps. It is certainly
something that people want to see. But you know, for me,

(03:56):
the thing that I hear really loudly and clearly every
single day on this show is from victims, from victims
of crime, and the fact is that unfortunately we have
seen some really young people involved in some really horrendous crime.
I mean, the incident that always springs to my mind

(04:17):
is that one out in Palmerston a little bit earlier
this year when Trevor was assaulted inside his own home
by alleged defenders who injured him so badly with a knife,
allegedly that he's had to learn how to use his
arms again. You know, we're talking about some really horrific offending,

(04:40):
and I know that in some cases it may not
be quite so serious. But I feel as though the
pendulum swung so far one way towards the offenders that
the victims became forgotten. And I don't know whether the
pendulum is now swinging too far the other way. But
what I know is people have really had a gutfull

(05:02):
with the crime that we've experienced.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
People have had enough. Kdie and you've hit the nail
on the head. The pendulum swing so far to the offenders'
rights under the previous labor government. We are bringing it back.
We don't make any apology for that. Enough's enough. They're
stabbing at the show. There should be a family event
where you go there with you. I took my grandchild there,
I took my horses there. And yet those are instances,
and that was only one. There's allege of fights all

(05:25):
over the place as well. These young offenders have grown
up with no consequence, Katie. They've been able to do
what they want. They get a step on the hand,
they returned back to a responsible parent, whatever that may be.
So we're breaking that cycle. We're making sure if you
commit a crime in lawn charity, there's going to be
a consequence. It's as simple as that.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
We had a whole week in parliament, Katie where the
government talked about rushing this through one urgency. They've spoken
about it for months in the public. Haven't given the organizations,
whether it's victims, whether it's stakeholders. No one has had
the opportunity to actually talk about the legislation. We only
had twenty for hours to physically see the legislation. So

(06:03):
there's nothing in that legislation that is going to make
the community safer overnight. There's nothing in that legislation that's
going to stop the horrific incidences that happened at the show,
because we need to stop crime before it starts.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
Now, Cadie Chancy, you had your turn, didn't you, And
I for one have sat and watched the whole process
from way to go. The Royal Commission into Child Protection
and Youth Detention was dropped on your government in twenty seventeen.
You had many years to implement strategies and policies and

(06:36):
laws that would turn this around, but we didn't see that.
We saw an increase in crime now right across the
Northern Territory. So you had your turn, and I think
in all fairness it's now up to the current government
to give their policies.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Ago.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
I think that we have to be kind and I
think we have to be caring, but sometimes we have
to be firm and concil and put things in place
that don't appeal to the left side of politics. But
look after the majority of people sitting in the speaker's
chair is fascinating because you see very clearly the divide

(07:16):
in the chamber and on this issue there is very
little common ground. So where I see it is it's
their turn. Now it's the CoP's government to try their
new strategies that they promised to the people of the
Northern Territory like you promised your policies and strategies years ago.

(07:36):
And to some extent, I think you've just got to
suck it up.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Look, no one is absolutely Our job as opposition is
to hold the government accountable. We want to make it
clear we've not been opposition for opposition, say Katie, we
supported the COLP with their bail changes. We've supported the
CLP with a number of measures that we thought yet
they have some merit what we are saying. And Katie,

(07:59):
I want to make it really clear. Did we get
everything right? Absolutely not. Are we learning from that? Absolutely?
Are we going to go out and work with the
community and listen?

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Do you know?

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (08:10):
I reckon you guys would go a long way. I
honestly reckon that labor would have gone a long way
when the new government came in just apologizing to territorians
and saying, do you know what, maybe we didn't listen
as much as we should have and and had that happened,
people might be a little bit more open now to

(08:30):
some of the things that labor are saying and some
of the concerns that labor are raising. And and you know,
don't get me wrong, you know when the COLP if
their programs and what they're you know, what they're proposing
do not work, I'll be the first one and they'll
be sharing it at them.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, that's happening.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
It is.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
This issue is so close to everyone's hearts. They'll be intolerance.
If what the COLP doesn't do, there will be and
there will be a flip again.

Speaker 4 (08:56):
Certainly well because for your crime the community, you've had enough.
There's been Labor government for really nineteen out of the
last twenty odd years four so these children weren't even
born when the COLP there. So all I've had is
the Labour's policy is soft on crime, slap on the risk,
go back to home, do it again. I think we
heard sorry is that a young offender was return home

(09:17):
twenty times in one night. That's going to stop. Under
the CELP government. We're going to make sure the you
committed crime, there's a consequence, and this is one piece
of legislation. It's more to come, Katie. We know this
is a big ship and we're going to keep working
hard to keep the community safe. And it goes about
when we were elected to keep the community safe, rebuild
the economy and restore our lifestyle. And it's reflecting because

(09:38):
we know there's been results in context about our economy
is rebuilding itself because people are.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Feeling So we'll talk a little more about that after.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
But one thing, yeah, one thing is I just want
to make really clear the Deputy Chief Minister is talking
about there's more legislation to come. We acknowledge that and
we will absolutely work through when it comes. The only
thing that we ask is don't shut people out of
those important conversations, whether it's listening to the lived experience
of victims, listening to organizations who are on the front line.

(10:08):
Don't shut them out and put everything through on urgency.
And I think we often talk about it, and I
just want to pick up on the point that Robin
made and all be on our best behavior because the
speakers in the studio studio this morning. But you know,
I think yes, I think it's clear that everyone has
the same objective and that is that the territory is

(10:30):
a safe place. We often choose different roads to get there,
and I think Robin does make the point you can
sometimes see that divide and I think that's something that
we all need to work on as members of Parliament,
is working together on common ground and common issues, and
that's something I think we all have to acknowledge that
sometimes we have to step out of our comfort zones
to do that.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
Do your chance, he can.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
I say.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
One thing that concerns me is that, yes, I absolutely
agree that the government needs to talk to the stakehold
is talked to, all the interest groups, all the Aboriginal
people that are affected by, you know, these decisions that
they're making. But the mistake I'm seeing is that a
lot of those groups remain politically aligned to Labor, and

(11:15):
that is not doing them any good. Take your political
hat off and try and be neutral and work with
the current government, or you will not get anywhere. You
know that that's how it works, and so do I.
Politically aligning whether you're in the DV sector or the
health sector or whatever sector to the former government to
labor is not going to serve anyone any any well

(11:39):
at all.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Look, I mean, I think that's a very fine line.
I don't think you can.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Group should politically align themselves if they receive.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Who has come out and said that they're aligned with
the labor. I think it's all with some of the
view You can't you can't align. You can't align a
movement with a political party just because they can't out
and raise concerns about a particular I mean, if you've.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Got like I know this is an issue from last week,
but if you've got the likes of NAGA coming out
saying that police should be defunded, you know, and like,
I think that that's where people sort of go, well,
hang on a second, shouldn't we all be working for
the greater good here? And you know, calling for the
federal government to do something like that is a fairly
outrageous statement to make to the broader community.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
That's NAJA are not a member of the Labor Party,
that they are an independent organization.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
Can you call.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yourself independent when you're saying things like.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
That, siting their members organization, they're an average elections, They're
an aboriginal organization. That's their prerogative is to support their
members in what their members views are and what their
decisions of the.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Book look, I mean, I guess I see it from
the perspective that there's, you know, like we have got
so many wonderful Indigenous people in the Northern Territory, a
lot of you know, the large majority law abiding, you
know citizens. Do you think that they want the Northern
Territory Police to be defunded?

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Katie, I think it's, you know, like for the federal.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Government to stop funding the police. Like I guess the
point that I'm trying to make is I think that
everybody's got to look at things, as you touched on before,
and as Robin's touched on is we've got to look
at these issues a little bit more broadly. I think
at the impact that it's having on the community in
so many different ways. You know, no matter where you live,

(13:31):
whether it's in Alice Springs, whether it's in Catherine. At
the moment, you know, they're battling some of the worst
issues of crime at this point in time. Earlier in
the week, two women you know, barricaded into a room
as some young offenders got inside and threatened them with
a machete. You know, the types of issues that we're
dealing with at the moment. They're no joke. You know.

(13:52):
We can't keep sort of mucking around and you know,
playing politics with these things. I think we absolutely have
to try and sort these garbage out, okay, and that's.

Speaker 4 (14:04):
What we're going to do. We've been elected clearly to
keep the community safe and that's what we're working on
doing with strengthened bail laws. I think there's some five
hundred extra people in custody at the moment, where pouring
money in infrastructure because the previouslybor government failed to do that.
We're strengthening the court system. We're here to keep the
community safe and again I say we make no apologies.
If you commit a crime, we're going to there's going

(14:25):
to be a consequence for that. And that's what I
think these young offenders have come up with and are
used to do what we want. No one's going to
get in trouble. We can we rule the roost well,
clear messages. Time's going to change and you're going to
get punishment. It's going to be a consequence for that.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
You've also got to be really clear with what your
communication is. The Attorney General seat in.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
Part it is very clear it's going to be for
your crime.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
It's very clear getting bail. People are still getting diversion.
These are a number of things the government screwks their
crime statistics. Now, Katie, I am absolutely acknowledging today that
there has been some positive trends in the crime statistics,
but there is also some really bad trends as well.
We are seeing violent assaults and harms to others continuing

(15:09):
to rise. We are seeing commercial breakings and property home
coming down. Break Ins are coming down in some areas
now that can be attributed to a few things I'm
going to acknowledge right now, could be attributed to a
range of measures that the government are introducing. Yes, and
it's also hard working Territorians investing in securing their own home.

(15:31):
So yeah, look, I acknowledge it where there is. But
also this is a government that comes out with press
releases and they refuse to acknowledge that violent assaults are
up and that the Chief Minister does come to our
springs and when she does, she gets to walk around
with bodyguards. We don't do that in other springs.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
That's just not quite true. Every chief ministers get security
when and when your labor government either had her security.
I'm sure when you're acting chief minister, when you're a
deputy you had security, So that absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
That is absolutely I never had community minister for bodyguards.
For bodyguard.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
This is about community safety and you can put it
to the Chief Minister. We're here to keep the community safe.
There's going to be a consequence to your action. The
community have had enough and we've listened to that and
we're going to act on it.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Chancey, do you reckon that. Michael Gunner, Evil Laula and
Natasha Files didn't have security or the police keeping an
eye on them.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Look, Michael Ganner did. If you'd let me finish. Michael
Gunner had police when he had people jumping his back
fence and in his backyard, and certainly during COVID, Natasha
Hiles did have some police helping her and they assessed
as they would have assessed with this new government. Members
of Parliament's home in their security and absolutely where there

(16:44):
were events that were considered to be hostile that they
could have had security. I've never had security following and.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Escorting concerning then do you think that if they've assessed it,
they feel as though the current Chief Minister actually needs
that that's what's required.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
I mean, well, I mean that the police, do you
know what's gone on? Please do the job and do
the assessments. And I acknowledge that when you are the
leader there is an extra level of concern and consideration,
but you know that needs to be communicated to people
because people and Alice Springs felt really betrayed when the
Chief Minister was seen walking around with four police or

(17:19):
four bodyguard.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
I didn't even notice.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
They didn't feel they were asking questions what's going on?
If she was upfront about it and came out and said,
look there's been threats towards me. This is what I need.
I think Alice Springs people would have been much more accepting.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Look, I want to continue this discussion, but down a
little bit of a different path for a moment, and
that's the expansion of G four S. Now, we know
that the government earlier this week announced a new agreement
between Northern Territory Corrections and G four S to expand
prisoner transport and custody services across the Northern Territory. So
this agreement's going to see eighty five additional G four

(17:54):
S officers deployed over the next six months, delivering what
the government's described as critical support to police so that
they can spend more time in the community and correction
staff can focus on their core custodial roles. Now, what
we are going to see, which some people might have
missed throughout this week, is the Darwin Transitional Custody Center.
So essentially the watchhouse in our Darwin city is going

(18:18):
to be managed by G four S and overseen, of
course by Corrections. I don't know exactly how people are
going to feel about that being the case right in
the middle of our CBD. I get it, we need
the space, but you know, I guess a lot of
sort of moving things around at this point in time,
given the fact that we've also got the Palmerston Watchhouse,

(18:39):
which is has been under pressure for quite some time.
I'm sure in Alice Springs, I'm assuming as well that
the correctional facilities era are very full.

Speaker 4 (18:50):
Yes, Katie, I'll talk about this. The G four s
are going to come in and support the correctual offices
and also support the police. And we know that the
infrastructure in corrections has been underfunded for many years, and
I think the opposition to yesterday that they are under
resource and underfunded. Yes, they were. So in the last

(19:11):
year we've brought on essentially a new prison. We've brought
on about five hundred new beds. We've put in five
hundred people behind the bars who are out there committing
offenses before and now behind the wire and where they
should be in prison. So we need to make sure
that we keep them safe and G foro ess are
going to be able to work, not behind the wire.
That's going to be remained for our experience prison guards.
We're not privatizing any prisons. These G FOROS contractors will

(19:35):
pick up prisoners from the police taken to the watchhouse,
bring them back and also oka if some of a
prisoner gets sick and goes to the hospital at the moment,
there's two guards has to sleep with that person in
all times. So that's four guards over twenty for our period.
So what we're trying to do is make sure the
g forest officers do that and put those experienced corrections

(19:55):
officers back behind.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Do we know how much it's going to cost?

Speaker 4 (19:58):
Yes, a progressive thing, and it's going to be up
about ten million dollars if once they all all get
working by kind of kick in bit by bit.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
Certainly a boom industry, isn't it it is? Yeah, Look,
I don't see this as any big deal. I mean,
obviously there'll be industrial issues. Maybe the unions will be
upset about this workforce coming to town, the privatization of
corrections or security. But I just recall what happened during
COVID when we had CIRCO come in and manage the

(20:29):
Howard Springs facility out there. I think that's just what
you do when you need a workforce.

Speaker 4 (20:35):
Workforce is an issue. We want to make sure that
these are experience officers. They've got the training and they're
called special correction officers and the commissioner can appoint them
and they'll do that work outside of the wire and
leaving the experienced officers work behind the wire and offer
training and rehabilitation and industry and the work programs where

(20:55):
you see prisoners out mowing the lawns and picking up
rubbish and doing that community service, which about the rehablutation program.
And without a number of staff, we can't offer that.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
It's like agency nurses and agency Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Look, I know that in the early days there's certainly
been some pushback from the correctional officers saying that they
did not want the workforce to be privatized and they
were quite concerned about what this would mean. I've not
heard a lot over the last week or so, but
I'm assuming that some of that information is probably just
starting to kind of flow through as well to those officers.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
I think it's still fairly fresh, yeah for people. And
I mean, if you're a correctional services officer, you know,
you work shift work. You have to take the time
to get across the information. It's a really difficult job
being a corrections officer. And I mean, I think we
need just to wait and see and listen to what
the correction officers are telling us. The government sprup this

(21:47):
as a measure to support corrections officers, so I think
the best people placed to talk on this are actual
corrections officers and what they're seeing and what they're hearing.
I think the biggest issue is, though, is that we're
hearing from people in the police that the government continued
to use those watchhouses and they never actually stopped using them.

(22:09):
That's what we're hearing, and I think that you know, again,
when it comes to this, I think we really owe
it to hear it from the corrections offices around what
their experience is because this has been flagged as a
measure to help them.

Speaker 4 (22:20):
Okay, we're also doing rolling recruiting in relation to employee
experienced prison officers in the antejumpment to working behind the wire.
I think we've had over two hundred this financial year
and we need to continue to recruit. So we're bolstering
the workforce being behind the wire with the prison officers.
We're doing the g forest outside the wire to do

(22:41):
the services running people around and making sure that people
get to court and get back to safely and help
the police if they're arresting someone to go and help
them to get those police officers back out there and
being proactive instead of have to always react.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Out there on the straight doing their job and.

Speaker 4 (22:55):
Start locking up doing a bit of proactive policing which
I think a lot.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Of them see, Yeah, which everybody wants to see. Look,
we are going to have to take a really quick break.
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
It is the week that was.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
You are listening to Mix one oh four nine's three
to sixty in the studio. Today we've got Robin Lamley,
We've got Jared Maylee and Chancey Paig. Now we have
just had a concerned correction officer getting contact asking in
regards to G four S, when they have enough new
trainee officers on board, will they get rid of G
four s all together? Lots of people are being trained up.

(23:29):
The worry is that G four s will become a
permanent fixture. Jared. Look, this is.

Speaker 4 (23:34):
About making sure we've got enough workforce to do the
job across in Allthern territory. Maybe in the future right
down the track if we do have enough people, you know,
everything's on the table. But this is about making sure
that the workforce are safe, that the assets are safe,
the detainees are safe, and more importantly, that the community
is safe.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
All right, I want to get into one of the
topics which made headlines throughout the week, and it was
the words of the Domestic Violence Prevention Minister Rob and
Carl in Parliament now. The minister said that while she
never expected a panacea when it came to the coronial
inquest into the deaths of four Aboriginal women whose lives

(24:11):
were lost to domestic violence, she found the long anticipated
report failed so dismally to hit the mark. She said
overall the recommendations made were uninspiring, with only a small
proportion of the recommendations made leading to the implementation of
a new and innovative approach or the continuation of what
had initially been a trial program. She said. Coroner Armitage's

(24:36):
approach has been protracted, resulting in lengthy reports delivered in
a manner seeming to lack the humility that one might
expect from an officer of the court, more focused on
the reveal rather than the result. Now, it was quite
like I guess it was quite a shock. I can't
remember the last time that I've seen a minister seek

(25:00):
out against you know, or sort of in this way
in relation to a coup to a coronial report. I
mean it's certainly like it has certainly sort of upraised
the question, I guess does the government have confidence in
the coroner.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
Look this, I just want to start by saying domestic
violence is a scourge and it needs to be sorted out.
We cannot continue to have people dying at the hands
off their opposed or alleged loved ones. So we need
to do what we can to make sure that domestic
violence is stamped out. Look, we support what the Minister
Carl said. Something needs to change.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
You can't go on.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
We know that the Status Co hasn't been working in
relation to domestic violence and the current and how all
these coronal reports come out. So we're going to look
at looking at what can we do to make sure
that domestic violence is stamped out in the Northern Terrochy
and we'll do what it takes to do that.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Chancey, I know you were very strong on this throughout
the week in Parliament. You've got some pretty big concerns
from what i'd heard.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Look, Katie, I think firstly I'm hoping it was a
mistake by the Minister for the Prevention of Domestic and
Family Violence in those comments, because when you have a
coronial inquest, you're asking people to come forward and give
evidence and lived experience and for a number of the
families of those four women it was reliving trauma and
you can't rush that experience. You need to make sure

(26:19):
that they're able to have an informed hearing, that they
give the evidence and the testimony, and that the services
are there to ablely mark through that process. So I think, yeah, look,
it did take a bit of time, but it needed
to because there were four women in one coronial inquest
that needed to be listened to hear too. And those recommendations,
whilst they're being dismissed by the government, they park and

(26:43):
painted and put forward a positive road map to overcome domestic,
family and sexual violence in the Northern Territory and that's important.
But I think Katie, there are two questions that have
not been answered today, and that is to the Deputy
Chief Ministers, do you have confidence of the Northern Territories
Coroner and absolutely being very clear with territorians of the

(27:07):
recommendations that you are accepted. Are you going to have
budget lines to show where the investment is going.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
I think they're fair questions. I certainly put one to
Robin yesterday when she was on the show. Robin Carl, Yes, certainly.

Speaker 4 (27:18):
Look, we've committed this spending thirty six million dollars a
year every year, year on year, in relationship to stopping
domestic violence. So we are going to put our money
up and talk about that. So that money is committed,
it's locked in, and we're going to keep doing those programs.
But what we're not going to do, Katie, is have
programs that haven't been working previously and continue to fund
those programs. So we're going to make sure that we

(27:40):
look at all these programs to ensure that there's an outcome,
there's a KPI, we can measure it. And the main
goal is to stop domestic violence in the Northern Territory.
So we're going to work hard to do that, and
we make no apologies. We will do what it takes.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
You can surely admit that those comments were a helpful victor.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
And we're already doing twenty four or twenty five the recommendation.
They're already being done and they're already been worked on.
So we need to get that balance right of how
much money and time we spend on coronials to how
much time money we spend on actual programs.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
That deal This is the thing I guess that we've
seen over the last couple of weeks is we had
a situation where the Chief Minister had come on this
show and said that you know that the way in
which coronials are undertaken needs to be looked at.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Now.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
That actually followed the coronial inquest into the death of
Kuman Jay Walker. Now further questions have been raised in
that space as well. Sky News reporting earlier this week
that former Northern Territory Police officer Zachary Rolf has lodged
a complaint accusing the coroner of buyers after she delivered

(28:45):
findings into the death of Kuman Gay Walker in front
of a banner of an activist group that called for
the cleared cop to face traditional Indigenous justice. I might
ask all of you, firstly, do you think it is
appropriate that those findings were handed down in front or
the banner of an activist group.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
Of course not it was inappropriate. Look, the coroner is,
at the end of the day, a public servant, like
a lot of other people in the Northern Territory. She
is not beyond question or reproach, and everything she does is,
at the end of the day up for scrutiny. Now
I acknowledge what Chancey said, these inquiries are very sensitive,

(29:30):
but when they cost so much money and they go
on forever, it is reasonable to question the value and
the outcomes. I think that the Cooman J. Walker coronial
inquest was hideously long and hideously expensive, and I just
can't see any justification for that. There was no need

(29:53):
for it. So I think the coroner, the Coroner's office,
not the coroner personally, needs to be reviewed and reform
to make sure it does reflect the expectations of the community,
that how she operates, how the coroner operates meets the
pub test.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Chancey, do you think it was appropriate that those findings
were delivered in front of the activist banner?

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Oh look, Katie, I think when the coroner got there,
she took her seat. People putting posters up in black
eyds everywhere. Look, in hindsight, could have that been done differently, probably,
but I think look what we're actually taking.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
It does that really? It doesn't set the tone though
for something then you know, like being independent. I get
what you're saying that it may have gone up afterwards,
but then when you are there, you know, with a
live feed beaming out, you know, all over the nation,
it's it doesn't give that impression.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
Its people's opinion of her. And she should be worried fair,
you know, it should be worried to be fair personally
that she should be associated with political banner sitting behind her.
I know when we go everywhere, Chancey, you and I
as politicians, you look around at your environment. If you
know you're going to be photographed, you choose who you're

(31:10):
going to be photographed with and the environment, and you
make sure that those things.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
But I think these are questions that we should be
talking and working with the coroner's office. You can't control
things when you are sitting down delivering Yes, you can
find something. I don't know that they're being done.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
She can choose where she sits and where she delivers
her findings. She is a very high ranking public servant
in the Northern Territory. She gets to choose everything she shows,
how long her inquest would take, who would be involved,
the cost of it, and she can certainly choose whether
or not she delivers something in front of a political

(31:50):
banner or not.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Well, Rolph has the right to appeal and that's his decision.
I think what we are seeing here, though, Katie, and
we need to be very careful is when governments come
out and make comments that it's not done in a
way that seems to discredit the role or the functions
of the coroner. The coroner is a judicial officer, and

(32:12):
you know, we've had concerns this week by the Criminal
Lawyers Association, the Bar Association, and the AMA all saying
bit's be very careful around the language that is used
to discredit the role and the functions of the coroner.
Now I'm not saying that's either or. I'm saying we
just all need to be mindful that when we are

(32:33):
talking about it, we're not underminding and we're not overstepping
the separation of power.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
Look what happened to Ken Fleming when he made that statement,
when after common Jay Walker was killed, he was absolutely
hauled over the coals for coming out and talking about
black lives matter. So it's a similar scenario. You have
to be careful of the political context in which you
deliver these things when you're holding such a high judicial

(33:00):
I'll go back to.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
You, Jared.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
I mean, does an Northern Territory government have confidence in
the coroner. You've got a situation where, you know where
we've obviously seen and heard the different commentary over the
last couple of weeks. I mean, the last thing anybody
wants is for a situation where we have got a
coroner sitting in an incredibly important role if the government's

(33:23):
not going to be listening to her.

Speaker 4 (33:25):
Look, we are listening to her recommendations and we take
all her recommendation seriously. But we're already doing some of
those recommendations. We think we're doing twenty four of them.
This is about I agree with Robin said what she
did was inappropriate.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
In my view.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
This she's got to court. She could have done it
in there. She could have controlled the situation. This is
a very topical situation and she would have known. I've
met her, I've been in court with her. She's a
very very smart lady. She would have known that this
could have happened. She should have taken control.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Of her to her about that.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
So this the government is, it's all about making sure
we get that balance right because we represent the community
and what the community think is important to me is
important to everyone here, is important to all politicians, and
we need to ensure that the community have their say
and this is about making sure they get that balance right.
That we do have those confidence in our jug and
I do have confidence in Parliament, and we need to

(34:14):
make sure that we get that step and that.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Those people are neutral, completely and utterly politically neutral.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
So you're talking talf Jared and talking about all of this.
Has the Northern Territory Government asked to meet with the
coroner to talk about those circumstances.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
I know that the Attorney General meets with the court regularly,
and I don't know that she meets with the Chief
Judge and she does the job and the Journey General
is very good at that and she talks to on
a regular basis.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
That's that's all fluff. Direct question. Do you have confidence
in the coroner and have you spoken to her around
the concerns you've raised today.

Speaker 4 (34:48):
I haven't spoken to it personally, but I know the
Journey General has spoken to the court about this. She
speaks on a regular basis. We need to get the
balance right.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
This is about does she have the confidence of the government.

Speaker 4 (34:59):
The Aaron's Office certainly has the confidence. So she she
does a good job. She's a very smart lady. We
know that there's been an appeal Lodge. We need to
let that play out na see what the result is.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
All Right, we're going to have to take a very
quick break. You are listening to Mix one oh four
nine's three sixty. It is the week that was. Well,
you are listening to the week that was and if
you've just joined us in the studio Robin Lamley, Jared
Mayley and Chancey Paik. Now, one of the topics that
really got people going yesterday was a question that was
asked by the Independent Member for Johnston throughout Parliament this

(35:31):
week about the flyover on Territory Day. Now. It prompted
the Senior Australian of the Year for the Northern Territory
to call in and say that he was gobsmacked that
an MLA had raised concerns about defense flyovers in the
Northern Territory Parliament. Now Justine Davis was asking a question
about the fighter jet flyover on Territory Day, saying that

(35:55):
it had been raised with her that it had caused
distress to many people and asked who or whether the
Northern Territory or Commonwealth government foot the bill, and also
pointed to a petition given to NT major events calling
for a rethink or a removal of flyovers now. Michael
Foley OAM called through defended the Defense Force and its activities,

(36:19):
telling well, telling us people who don't like it, leave
the Northern Territory and do you know what that's the
sentiment small yesterday morning on the text line Katie.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
The sound of a jet flying over to be is
a sound of freedom. And I think that many people
would say that, and people who come from overseas they
they're here because we're a free country. And that's what
those jets do. And the Defense Force are in here
and they've been in the Northern Churchy for a long
time and I personally fully support them. I know the
government fully supports them. Lots of people in the community

(36:50):
support that and it's a great spectacle. I take my
children thew and the jets fly over. They're noisy, but
this is about freedom, This is about defending the country,
and it's just a discription.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
Netown. We're a defense town, you know. Fundamentally, I think
we've got five thousand members of the Defense Force current serving.
I think we've got about five thousand that have served
and still live here. Then we've got all of those families,
and look, I found it quite sort of ironic. Then
yesterday that I had also had a member of the
Defense Force coming in to speak about Exercise Talisman Saber,

(37:22):
and the pride in his voice as he spoke about
that exercise, and the pride when he was telling us
about the open day that's going to be happening at
Robertson Barracks, and you know how much they love the
community being able to get out there and to be
able to get a closer look at the work they do.
You know, it just kind of reminded me how lucky

(37:44):
we are to be Australians and how lucky we are
to live in the Northern Territory.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
I don't think Justine really read the room very well,
did she. I mean, she said that she'd been approached
by some constituents who were triggered by the sound of
far of play in the sky across Darwin. But I
think she failed to look at the broader picture, and
that is you're right, Katie, this is a defense town

(38:10):
and it's something that we value and it brings a
lot of economic prosperity to the Northern Territory, and as
Jared said, for some people, it's a sign of freedom
and safety and security and nationalism.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
Really, I think, look, Katie, I'm not going to pretend
to be an expert on this. I'm from Alice Free.
We don't have the flyover, so I had to kind
of get across what it was. And I think acknowledging
that as members of Parliament, people come to you and
ask questions, and there's a few forums to ask those questions.
There's question time, but as a member we can put
question written questions on notice as well if we think

(38:46):
that it could be a divisive or it could be
seen as not supporting a particular cohort. So I think
that's something that may be the Member for Johnson might
consider in the future. I think, you know, when we
talk about our defense community here in Darwin, it is
a really big industry. It's an important community and it's
only going to grow as our defense presence in the

(39:09):
Indo Pacific grows. I mean, let's be clear, the Indo
Pacific's the fastest growing democratic area in the world. At
the moment, and that is the next area of strategic
positioning that the Australian Defense Forces is looking at to
make sure that we are protecting our borders long I.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
Think it's an absolute disgrace that she questions what the
defense do here in allthern terrectory in Australia. They do
give us freedom, they give us a defense force. They
give us economic benefit. They had their families here, they
involved in sport, they sponsored all sorts of things. I
was at the VA Supercars when the jet flow over there.
It's an amazing We're very, very luve there to keep

(39:49):
us safe. They do a great job.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
I'm just to be Claire Joe. I'm I'm acknowledging that
they are very important, and I think that this is
certainly something that we all know and all have loved
ones who serve and they do provide, you know, members
of our community. There's economic development opportunities there. I think that,
you know, I again, this is foreign for me, so

(40:12):
I'm going to just not really get involved until I'm
more acutely across the area. But I think, I mean,
I don't know, Jared and Robin is there. Do they
notify people that it's happening.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
People go there specifically to see it.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Right if you can.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Certainly that's right.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
But the vibe that I got, certainly was from the
question that Justine had asked, is that there were maybe
new Australians that it just you know, like it was
she was out of citizenship ceremony and somebody had asked,
And I totally understand that. But I feel like that's
an opportunity to educate, you know, those New Australians and
those people that are that are so fortunate to come
and live here in Australia and be part of our
wonderful country. You know, of our defense presence and the

(40:53):
work that they do here in the Northern Territory.

Speaker 4 (40:55):
You want to make it very clear the government absolutely
support and back in the defense they do.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Hey one question, the Opposition agrees.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Look at Alice Springs.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
We're going to take a really quick break. You are
listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixtyties the
week that was. You are listening to Mix one oh
four nines three sixties the week that was. Now before
we wrap up for the morning, I do just want
to also mention the fact that earlier in the week
we spoke to the Professional Pharmacists Australia. Members are threatening
industrial action if major pharmacist vacancy rates, which potentially undermine

(41:34):
patient welfare and safety, are not urgently addressed. Now this
is across the Royal Darwin Hospital, Alice Springs Hospital, they're
currently operating with thirty percent vacancy rates. Catherine we were
told earlier this week facing potential closure of its pharmacy
department in a few months time if they are unable
to find qualified candidates despite ongoing attempts at recruitment. Now,

(41:58):
I know that Labour asked about this year yesterday in Parliament.
We'd also of course spoken to the Professional Pharmacists earlier
in the week and the Health Minister provided a response
saying that there is an EBA negotiation underway at the
moment and that you know the industrial action they do
have contingencies in place. I mean the fact is here though,

(42:19):
we are talking about something which is very much needed
within our hospitals. I know, in the likes of Alice
Springs and Catherine and here in Darwin. But the last
thing you want is a winding back of any health services.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
Steve responded last night and said they're onto it. I
don't know what more.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
I think he said that like other jurisdictions, we've got
a skill shortage and that's in this mechanic all right
right across and they are onto it, they're aware of it.
They've got a short even long term point.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Thomass had told us it's more a situation that they're
not getting paid as much. Living here in the Northern
Territory is what they do in other states, which you
thank goodness, may how are we going to entice you know,
people to move to the Northern Territory.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah, well look that should be front and center. A
part of those EBA negotiations is having to recognize that
we do I mean, we pay now through the EBAs,
we pay corrections officers really good awards, we pay teachers
really good and police are going through another EBA to
recognize that we need to do that with pharmacists. I
think what is concerning, though, Katie, is you can't use

(43:21):
an EBA to not meet with the Australian pharmacists Like
they've asked to meet with the minister and they haven't
had a response or a welcomed opportunity to meet with
him yet. I think that raises some concerns because they
might actually be kind to come to the table with solutions.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yeah. Well look hopefully they do get that meeting. We're
going to have to wrap up. That is it for
us this morning. It's been a very busy morning. Long
weekend picnic day on Monday. I hope you all have
a lovely and safe weekend. Chancey Paig, thank.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
You so much for your time, Thank you, Katie. And
just before I jump off, it is Australian Principles Day today,
so shout out to all of the amazing principles across territory.
And next week is basically the Top Ends Art week,
so daff Fashion Awards you the Naziers. Great time to
be in the top Ends.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
So much happening, Jered Mayleie, thank you so much for
your time this morning.

Speaker 4 (44:15):
Thank you Katie. And I'm going to say one word freedom.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
Ye I'm going to indulge myself here. It is my
daughter's twenty fifth birthday on Monday, Alice Jane Lamley, happy
twenty Happy, so much We're.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Coming round for a party. Good on you. Thank you
all so much for your time this morning. You are
listening to Mix one O four nine's three point sixty.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
That was the week, that was