The Week That Was - 20th June 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for the week that was, and joining us
from Alice Springs, I reckon it'd be a little bit
colder there at the moment. From the opposition, the Chancey
pay good morning to you, Good morning Katie.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
In a shout out to all the listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
I reckon it be what how low do you think
it is in Alice tonight?

Speaker 3 (00:14):
It's pretty chilly and we're rugged up, but we're enjoying it.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, I reckon you would be from the Northern Territory News.
I've got the head of News, Gary Shipway, Good morning
to you.

Speaker 4 (00:24):
Morning, Caddy. And how good is it having a supercars
in town?

Speaker 1 (00:27):
It's awesome? Yes, Happy Supercars Day. It's going to be
a fantastic weekend.

Speaker 4 (00:31):
Massive last night and the other end of the scale
next week. We got the World Archaeology Gary.

Speaker 5 (00:43):
We surely do.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
And from Catherine we have indeed got the Minister for
Education and various other portfolios. Joe Hersey, good morning.

Speaker 5 (00:51):
Morning out to Catherine, morning listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
And Joe beautiful weather and Catherine two nineteen still right
now it is.

Speaker 6 (01:00):
The dry season has certainly kicked in in Catherine. I'm
looking forward to getting home in the next few days
and getting a bit more cooler weather.

Speaker 5 (01:09):
Yeah, we've got here in Darhwain.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Is that jumper weather record.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
I'm wearing my jumping just about here in Darwin where
it's over twenty.

Speaker 5 (01:18):
The other morning. Well, look there.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Is a lot to cover off on this morning and
we might talk first about these changes when it comes
to a new police stream. So the Northern Territory Government
making the announcement a little earlier in the week, saying
that the ppsos are aimed at reducing crime and restoring
the territory lifestyle. So essentially developing this new Public Safety

(01:41):
Officers stream to deploy frontline resources across key spaces, including
the new stream that's going to consolidate various auxiliary and
safety officer roles into one highly operational unit under NT Police,
providing standardized training through the Northern Territory Police College. So
transit safety officers public housing safety as well. They're both

(02:04):
going to seize and those officers are going to perform
functions basically transitioning to ppsos with police training and powers
focused on addressing anti social behavior in public housing, on buses,
at shopping centers, bottle shops, events and other public places.
Now Joe, this announcement's been large largely sort of met

(02:29):
with a mixed reaction. I guess you'd have to say.
Even on the show yesterday we had a couple of
the different unions on. We had the Transport Workers Union
on and they were very positive towards the announcement. Then
of course we had the CPSU, which actually represents those
workers you know that are going to be changing roles,
that were concerned that they're now going to be becoming

(02:52):
pseudo police officers when that's not what they signed on for.
I mean, fundamentally, the announcement being made to try to
deal with the issues we continue to have around crime
and anti social behavior.

Speaker 6 (03:02):
Yeah, so this is part of our major law and
order reforms to tackle anti social behavior, as you've said,
and I know that you know, some people that have
reached out to me or that I've spoken to in
Catherine have certainly welcomed this initiative. These are, as you said,
the transit officers, the housing public safety officers, and all

(03:23):
coming under the one banner, with fifty six extra officers
out you know, on the on the front line. And
I think what this does, Katie, is it just means
that police can get on with dealing with crime, and
these the public police public safety officers can go and
do the proactive work beforehand, you know, and be out.

(03:43):
You know, for example, in Catherine, we don't have palis
on bottle shops and it makes a huge difference. And
these police public safety officers can be on the bottle shops,
they can be going through the shopping centers, you know,
doing patrols out through the community. They can also be
you know, in the house precincts as I know, they
do those patrols.

Speaker 5 (04:03):
And in Catherine at the moment.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
So are they going to have guns?

Speaker 6 (04:08):
They are going to have guns, and they are going
to you know, it's not like you're just going to
give the housing public housing safety officer or a gun
and off you go. These people are going to the
Police College pat Katie, and they're going to be doing
you know, proper training. They're going to have all the
tools that they need to be able to roll out.

Speaker 5 (04:28):
And do their job out and about in the community.

Speaker 6 (04:30):
And I think it's a really positive step to help
out the police.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yeah. Look, I mean I think there's a lot of
hystereo going on at this issue. At the moment, a
lot of misinformation. I mean, yeah, look, you say pseudo
police officers, they're going to be police officers. I mean,
and police officers carry guns. You only got to walk
to the airport and you see federal police carrying machine guns.
They've got the holes that up. This is in a
public space.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
What happens.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
If there's a disturbance at a bus depot, the police
roll up. They're got carrying guns. If there's a disturbance
in a shopping center, the police roll up carrying guns.
This is policing. That's what police do. I mean that
they're no longer going to be the transit police as
we know them. They're going to be police officers. And
it's not pseudo. That's what their role is. And that's
part of policing. And you can see the police carrying
guns in any public space right now. And I think

(05:16):
transit officers don't get on, they don't ride the buses,
they follow the buses and they roll up when there's
a problem.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
I guess the other element of it that the union
had raised yesterday, the CPSU had said, you know, with
some of these people, with some of those fifty six officers,
the thirty four public Housing safety officers and the twenty
two transit safety officers that they hadn't signed on to
be police officers. I know it will be grandfather if
they don't want to go into one of those roles.

(05:44):
I mean, chancey, do you think it's going to make
a difference.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
Look, I think to be clear, the opposition has always
said that if bringing things together, and we'd had the
similar commitment to bring and centralize into one agency, but
obviously we'd never had the position to them with guns.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
I think let's be very clear.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
To become a hard working Northern Territory Police officer, you
go to the academy and you do a thirty week
training to become one.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
So is that still going to be the same.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
I think what we're seeing here is the Chief Minister
unable to provide those details. What is the actual training
that these officers or that these currently the transit and
the public safety officers are going to undergo. Because we've
heard from the NTPA for a number of years now,
you're either a full early sworn officer or you're not.

(06:34):
And we don't need to be creating different tiering of
policing in the territory and that's our concern is that
there should be appropriate training and the government are unable
to say what level of training people will have to
hold a gun.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, look, I definitely get what you're saying, and I
am going to put some of those questions to the
Police Association today. We've got them on after ten o'clock.
I guess the other part of it, though, is it,
you know, like a sort of question, is it much
difference different to when we had palis or when we
had auxiliaries. I know the differences by the sounds of
it that they're going to have guns, but is it
much different?

Speaker 6 (07:06):
I think it's just bringing them all under the one banner, Katie,
and they are going to be having the proper training
that they need by going.

Speaker 5 (07:15):
To the Police College.

Speaker 6 (07:16):
So as Gary said that they're not pseudo police officers,
they are going to have all the training that is
required that they need to go out and do their job,
you know, just like other police do. So I's going
to actually have a positive impact out in the community
and certainly in regional areas. I think it will really

(07:39):
help with the housing issues that we have with palis
on bottle shops because we know that we don't have
enough police to be on the bottle shops at the moment, Katie.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
I mean, let's be clear, there's no need for these officers,
public transit offices, and housing officers to carry guns. We
revealed through estimates that pepper spray with public trans officers
has only been used twice. So there are measures that
are already in place that can be utilized rather than
equipping people with guns, which will further create fear in

(08:10):
our community and see more of you know, an American
style policing happening.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
You reckon, would you be more open to this if
they weren't armed with firearms?

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Look?

Speaker 3 (08:20):
Absolutely, the former labor government had said that we would
bring all of these public offices, whether they were housing, transit,
into one central agency, but we'd never had a position
that they'd all be carrying guns.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
I mean, Gary, what's been the feedback from your readers.
I know from our listeners largely most people are being
quite supportive of these officers, like sort of saying, well,
do you know what we need to do something a
little bit different?

Speaker 7 (08:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
I mean that's the feedback we're getting, is that when
I say from our readers, our readers buying large mainstream readers.
They're supportive of it in as much as that you know,
it's a law and order issue and they see this
is adding to the safety aspects of law and order. Now,
if there was a disturbance out of public housing commission area,

(09:07):
police would attend that and they would roll up with guns.
And whether it's housing, inspected people, whatever, you know, police
will attend those things and they will arrive at any
public disturbance with a gun. I mean, I get, I
actually agree with what Chance is saying there in terms, Yeah,
devil's in the detail and that'll be that'll be rolled out.
But you know, from the mainstream reader there is support.

(09:30):
I was listening to a bus driver who had left
the territory traumatized and his you know, he was supportive
of the fact that at least there's a new safety
element coming in.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Well again, when we spoke to the Transport Workers Union yesterday,
they had said the same thing, you know, they'd said,
we want a situation where we have you know, where
our bus drivers feel safe. We want measures in place
where drivers feel safe to be able to do their jobs.
And that's certainly some of the issues that they are
dealing with on a day to day by can be
pretty woeful, but you know, pretty dangerous, I think is

(10:05):
probably the better way to describe it. So, so, like
you said, I think the devil is going to be
in the detail. We'll catch up with the Northern Territory
Police and also the Police Association this morning after ten
o'clock to try to get some of that detail. We'll
see how we go.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Katie.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
I mean, Joe, you just said that they're going to
be police, then why not just call them police? Why
are you calling them public safety officers? I think that's again,
these are the details that people want to know, is
if they're If you're saying they're police, then why not
just increase the police numbers because they're going to be
doing the same job.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Why call them.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
Public safety officers? Every police officer does look after public safety.

Speaker 5 (10:44):
That's right.

Speaker 6 (10:44):
So these are police public safety officers. So they will
go to the police college.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
Though, but they're not police slulk sworn officers. Though there's
clearly a difference between there is a and a public
police public safety officer.

Speaker 5 (10:58):
There is a difference that there is a different that's correct.

Speaker 6 (11:00):
But what we need is to make sure that there
is more people out there on the front line tackling
the anti.

Speaker 5 (11:07):
Social behavior issues that we have.

Speaker 6 (11:09):
So that means that police can actually get on and
with their response to crime, and these people can do
all the proactive work the public police, public safety officers,
and by bringing them all together, I think, you know,
the housing, the transit officers, bringing them all together, it
just is a better fit and I think it's a

(11:30):
positive for across the territory.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
Okay, what we do need to see this is like,
again we're seeing there's work here, but we actually need
to come up with an alternative first responder model to
de escalate situations before they get out of hand.

Speaker 5 (11:43):
So what do you mean, Well, look, if you look
at what's.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
Being done around the world at the moment, particularly in
places like New Mexico in the United States and in
parts of Britain, they're looking at alternative firstwonder models where
they're addressing mental health, they're addressing addiction there, addressing those
contravening behaviors which if left undealt with, often what we say,

(12:06):
will less scalizing criminalize.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah. Look, I get what you're saying, and I do
think that at some point, maybe that's something the Northern
Territory needs to look into. But I've been saying it
for years now. I think we're in a situation right
now where we've got a wound that is just bleeding.
You know, we have got so many issues at the
moment when it comes to people not feeling safe, and
it's not just a sense of people not feeling safe,

(12:29):
it's like a genuine there is violent crime happening, and
it's happening really regularly. You know, there's there's public drunkenness
at a level that it just is totally unacceptable. We
spoke to the mayor of Palmerston about it yesterday. You know,
it's it's reached a point where it's unacceptable and there
is definitely there needs to be long term solutions. But

(12:50):
I do feel at this point in time we actually
need to be taking some of these steps like what
the government has announced, because we need to try top
this wound from bleeding in the way that it is.
We've got like where we are at and have been
for quite some time, emergency level when it comes to
the crime that we're experiencing around the Northern Territory.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
That's right, So chance you're absolutely correcting those aspects you
just raised, they need to be addressed, but they're part
of a bigger jigsaw puzzle and this is just one
piece of the jigsaw puzzle. You know what's happening here.
And I think no one. I don't think anyone would
argue what you're saying there. But what those those intervention
aspects that need to be early intervention aspects that need
to be addressed because they are so important part of

(13:33):
fixing this. What is the large problem?

Speaker 2 (13:36):
You know?

Speaker 3 (13:36):
So look, I guess the issue we have as well.
It's like it's the same in DV. The DV stats
will continue to go up, Katie, And that sounds weird
coming from an opposition member, but they will go up
because as more women feel comfortable to come forward and
report domestic and family violence, those numbers will go up.
It's like the more police we have, the more police

(13:58):
there are in the community out there.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
People feel safer to report things.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
But there has to come a point where we look
at what is the money in comparison addressing the social
determinants so that we can stop it before the crimes committed.
A lot of and it's all governments. What we do
is we always it's the pointy end. But the thing is,
crime's not going to stop unless we get people on

(14:23):
the straight and narrow and really look at how we
can resource them to live better, stronger lives.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Hey, I want to talk about another This is still
in the same same discussion, but in a bit of
a different space.

Speaker 7 (14:36):
Now.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
I know that the Opposition had asked a number of
written questions to the Northern Territory government this week when
it comes to some of the criminal charges and sentencing data.
We did learn that twenty five eight hundred and one
charges were laid from August last year the twenty fifth
of August until March thirty one this year. There were

(14:57):
also questions looking into how many youths and adults have
being charged under the new post and boast laws, how
many were sentenced, and there was questions asked around how
many youths have been sentenced for assaulting frontline workers as
well as how many adults have been charged for assaulting
frontline workers. Now, this is something that I had corrections
officers getting contact with me about. Now I'm told by

(15:19):
at least one correctional officer that a prisoner who knocked
an officer unconscious earlier this year was given a ten
month sentence to be served concurrently with his current sentence.
He's serving no additional time behind bars for the assault
of the officer. Now, obviously the changes that were made
by the current Northern Territory government around mandatory sentencing for

(15:42):
assaults on frontline workers are something that you know, we're
hoping is going to make a difference. But according to
this corrections officer, you know, they're in a situation now,
those correctional staff where crimes are being committed while in custody,
but they're not being added to the sentence. You know,
they're serving that time concurrently, and you know, there's no

(16:04):
real deterrent then for those frontline workers that are behind
the wire if they're assaulted, you know, by a prisoner.
I mean, that's just part of the discussion. But first off,
do we need to make some change in that space?
I mean, if a correctional officer is assaulted while they
are at work, how is there a situation where someone

(16:25):
can get knocked out while they're at work and then
there's not actually an additional sentence added to that person's
you know a rap sheet.

Speaker 6 (16:34):
Yeah, Katie that you know Obviously, we have come in
as a government to reduce crime, and we've gone back
and we've strengthened bail laws, and there's a whole lot
more work to do in that space, and you know,
potentially that does not pass the publicus. So yeah, there
are some certainly a lot of changes still to come.

Speaker 5 (16:55):
But I think it just goes to show.

Speaker 6 (16:57):
That, you know, there are obviously ways around, you know,
the fact that this person's got off. So the fact
that we did go back and strengthen the bail laws
and to look at some of those other reforms that
we're doing, you know, there's still work happening in that space.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Well, I mean, let's be clear, this is the matter
that you're talking about, Katie, isn't about bail. It's about
someone who has done something. The government brought in this
tough mandatory sentencing on frontline workers, but we're seeing it's
not actually working like they promised it would because he's
been added to a concurrent sentence that he's already serving.
I mean, we had the Attorney General this week unable

(17:36):
to provide the basic data on how many people have
been given bail under the government's new bail laws. So look,
there are still a lot of questions outstanding, and there
are still a lot of people wanting to know when
the so called tough new laws are actually going to
have an impact.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
I think there's also the issue of a lot of
people be asking what the judiciary in this. I mean,
they made that decision, you know, and there's a lot
of questions going around the decision making with those you know,
how they come to these sentences, whether they people believe
they're too late or not sufficient enough. So judiciary oft
a role to playing this.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Team, absolutely a big role to play in this. And
I think that some of the other legislative changes that
we have seen recently have really sort of been a
push I think from the Northern Territory government to try
to get the judiciary to understand the way that the
community is feeling at the moment. I mean, Joe, do
you think that they're understanding it? Do you think that
we are you know, in a situation here where I

(18:37):
don't know, we're you know, where some are thumbing their
noses at the legislative changes that the Northern Territory government's making.

Speaker 6 (18:44):
Yeah, and I know that when those bail laws were
Titan Katie you know, we had heard of the youth
that was led out to go to the.

Speaker 5 (18:52):
Funeral, let out on bail and then absconded.

Speaker 6 (18:56):
You know that what this shows is that, yeah, there
are some people in the judiciary that are potentially, as
you say, thumbing their noses, but that does not pass
the pub test out there in the community. So you know,
the message has to get through to them loud and clear,
and if the laws need to be strengthened more. You know,

(19:17):
we have the toughest bail laws in the country, so
I know that there are nowhere near as many people
getting bail as what there has been.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Cater, can you provide the data on that, because the
Attorney General can't. So Katie, Let's also be clear, I'm
not going to say talk in detail about the judiciary,
but there are every member of the judiciary is a
highly qualified legal person who has I can know that.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Sometimes actually meeting the pub tests some of those decisions.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
The role of the judiciary is to interpret the legislation.
So this is back on the government around how they
prescribe matters within legislation that the judiciary interprets, so they want.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Sometimes they're not interpreting it the way that the public
intends for it to be interpreted.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
Look, the way that the legislation is drafted and is
then passed through parliament is the way that the judiciary
then interpret it. So if the government have issues with it,
it's their role to go in and look at clauses
in legislation to make sure that they are more clearly
articulated what the government's intent is for the judiciary to implement.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Well, look, I mean there has been occasions just recently.
I mean, Joe pointed to one not so long ago
where there was a youth who was indeed allowed out
to go and attend a funeral, and we then received,
you know, the statement that had come through from the
Chief Justice explaining some of that legislation that they do
look into and you know, some of it, you know,

(20:42):
pointing to obviously culture and other reasons for why those
decisions may or may not be made. But I mean,
are we in a situation in the Northern Territory where
first and foremost it should actually come down to whether
people are safe, you know, if someone's bailed, whether they're safe.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Again, Katie, they are provisions that exist in the legislation.
So if the government are not happy with those measures.
It's up to them to work through the legislation to
get the Attorney General and the agencies to look at
what they are concerned about and reform it.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Do you think that you had those levels correct when
you were the Attorney General.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
We had a number of measures in the legislation and
we gave the discretion to the judiciary. If the government
of the day now the CELP are not happy with measures,
it's their job to change the laws.

Speaker 6 (21:29):
Well, I think it's fair to say, Katie that those
levels of community safety weren't there because we saw you know,
a landslide victory at the last election, but also we've
seen crime out of control and as a government we
are certainly we've put in many, many measures to reduce

(21:50):
crime right across the territory and you know we will
continue to do so. But it is that interpretation I
think since the last BAO reform that came in the
statistics and I'm not the Attorney General.

Speaker 5 (22:03):
But she comes back, that's rather interesting.

Speaker 6 (22:08):
I'm sure Chancey she will come back with those statistics
for you and I know Katie that it would certainly
be not that many people would have received bail I'll be.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Keen to get those numbers as well.

Speaker 4 (22:20):
Yeah, just the issue of the judiciary and having the
legislation in place and has a chance he touched on
that they're they're there for them to use and they're
also there for them to interpret. This is a problem
everywhere in Australia. They wrestle with the tools are given
to the judiciary. It's how each individually they choose to
interpret them. So we have this you know that that's

(22:43):
a dilemma not only faced here, it's a dilomau faced
in every Australian state, particularly in Queens Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Well look we are going to take a really quick break.
You are, of course listening to mix one OW four
point nine three sixty. It is the week that was.
You are listening to mix ONEOW four ninees three sixty
if you've just joined us this morning. We have in
got Joe Hersey, We've got Gary Shipway and Chancey Paike
in the studio with us. Now. The budget estimates process.
It's been under way this week and last week and

(23:10):
well some questions were raised a little earlier in the
week of the Health Minister and also the CEO around
Code Yellows at Royal Darwin Hospital. Now, when we last
caught up with the outgoing nt President of the AMA,
doctor Robert Parker, a few weeks ago, he'd said on
the show that there'd been a directive from NTE Health

(23:30):
not to call them even though they were needed. Now,
the Minister rejected those claims at the time, saying that
there were regular meetings to address any capacity concerns or pressures. Now,
as we know, there were eleven code yellows called at
Royal Darwin and Palmerston Hospitals in the twenty three to
twenty four financial year, but not since the CLP came

(23:51):
to government. Now. We then caught up with doctor John Zorbis,
the new head of the AMA. He joined us on
the show on Wednesday, said that Royal Darwin Hospital is
under significant pressure, also pointing to a nationally recognized term
referred to as access blog where patients are waiting longer
than eight hours for the care that they need. He

(24:14):
says this is happening on an almost daily basis and
at the crux of the issue is a shortage of
bed So I guess not calling a cold yellow may
sort out any kind of pr issue, but it doesn't
necessarily sort the issue within the hospital. We know our
hospital is absolutely under the pump.

Speaker 4 (24:34):
It'd be gobsmacked if the hospitals never under the pump.
I mean, it's been like that as long as I've
lived here, and I've been his it's nine to eighty one.
So you know, I just I could be stated that
that hospital was not under the pump every day because
it is. That's the nature of the problems that we
have here in the Northern Church. And it's again it's nationally.

(24:56):
Look what's going on nationally, same situation, So how could
we be different?

Speaker 1 (25:00):
You know, this is the thing. He also said. Doctor
John Zorbas said, I believe since twenty sixteen, you know,
we've had these issues in terms of you know, within
our hospitals. I guess the problem here is have we
got a government that he's trying to hide those capacity
issues by not allowing a department to actually call a
code yellow.

Speaker 6 (25:19):
Absolutely not Katie and big shout out to their Minister
for Health, who's actually unwell today.

Speaker 5 (25:25):
I hope he's listening.

Speaker 6 (25:27):
But yeah, I did listen to him and the CEO,
Chris Hoskins in the estimates process, and you know, as
Chris had said RDH had not had a situation where
staff have been able where they haven't been able to
deal with those pressures, and he went on to say
that they you know, have huddles with key clinicians and

(25:49):
seenior hospital staff. But let's just be clear, Katie, when
they call a code yellow, that actually means that anyone
that's having elected surgery cannot have that done.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
So is that why they're not calling them so that
the so that the elective surgeries can still happen.

Speaker 6 (26:04):
No, No, that's not why they're calling them at why
they're not calling them at all. But you know we've
had coming into government with the infrastructure under the previous
government has not been kept up to date, and we
know that there's a mental health facility there that's you know,
gone over budget and still not.

Speaker 5 (26:26):
Finalized there.

Speaker 6 (26:27):
But this is that they did the Minister and the
CEO outlined it fairly clearly in the estimates process that
you know, this is something that they talk about with
their when they get into their huddles or whatever.

Speaker 5 (26:40):
And as you said, they haven't had a situation.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Sounds a bit dodgy to me, Katie.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Code yellows are an important tool that enables the hospital
staff to measure and manage their practices and it shouldn't
be being politicized. We heard in estimates from the Minister
for Health that they haven't had a code yet and
that there's been no need to call a code yellow.
But then when we're talking out at the hospital and
on the ground with nurses, doctors, healthcare providers, they are

(27:10):
all saying a very different story. So I think what
we have heard through that estimates process was that there
has been a number of processes and formulas changed or
been updated and that's allowing them to.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
Not call code yellows.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
So I certainly think that there are a lot more
questions to be asked, and it certainly does sound very
dodgy when you've got one thing coming from the Minister
which is in contradiction of all our hard working health
professional saying that there should definitely absolutely be code yellows
being called.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Look for me, I think fundamentally, what I want to
be sure of is that our doctors, our nurses, all
of our health care stuff, everybody working at the hospital
has what they need to be able to do their
jobs because they work incredibly bloody hard, you know, You're
talking about people at different times that I'm sure are
probably pully double shifts. They are caring for people in

(28:03):
the most dire of their times, so they need to
have everything that they require to be able to do
their jobs and to do them well. But also, you know,
we want to make sure that if a Territorian is sick,
if you turn up to the hospital, that there is
space there for you and that you're able to be sadi.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
It's all spin. We're hearing from people and health care
providers that emergency is double bunked at the moment. How
can that not be the need to call a code yellow.
People are there for an emergency and they are being
double bunked under the government's current formulas, and no need
to call code.

Speaker 6 (28:36):
Yellow, Joe, But I think you know, we do have
an infrastructure deficit there that was not addressed by the
previous government.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
But profits before people. This is about healthcare, This is
about Territorius. I don't think not having to be put
on hold because of economic rationale. People are sick, they
need care and attention and they need to be dealt with.
The government needs to come clean. What's the process and
what's the formula that's been updated, Katie, that's now stopping
Code yellows.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Well, look we were due to catch up with the
Health Ministry yesterday but he was sick, Joe, as you've
touched on, so.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
I hope he's not waiting Paul Bugger, he might have something.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Well, look we might take a very quick break. There
is so much to cover off on this morning. You
are listening to Mix one O fortnite. It is the
week that was, you are listening to three sixty. It
is indeed the week that wasn't in the studio today
we've got Chancey Paik, We've got Gary Shipway and of
course Joe Hersey. Now it has as we've been saying,
it's been an incredibly busy week. There has been quite

(29:39):
a bit of details sort of revealed throughout the estimates
process on various different things. But we did learn earlier
in the week the Northern Territory Attorney General has announced
a proposed racism review into the Northern Territory Police Force
has been scrapped. The Northern Territory Government had committed to
identifying and eliminating systemic racism in Northern Territory government government

(30:02):
agencies as part of the Aboriginal Justice Agreement of twenty
twenty one. Now we'd asked the Attorney General about this
a little earlier in the week. Here is part of
what she had to say.

Speaker 7 (30:13):
This particular racism review was announced under the former Labor government.
It was three hundred thousand dollars to be given to
the Anti Discrimination Commissioner to conduct that review into police.
Coming into government in August, there was a huge budget
deficits late last year. We had Legal Aid who was
in absolute disarrayed. So we had to make a really

(30:35):
tough decision and we had to find enough money to
give to Legal Aids so that people could be represented.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
So you're saying instead of all that round two.

Speaker 7 (30:43):
Thousand dollars yet from the police racism review over to
Legal Aid.

Speaker 5 (30:49):
So there you go.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
That was the Attorney General on the show earlier this week.
I mean, do we think that that is a good
move a bad move? What do you make of it?

Speaker 6 (30:58):
Well, I think Katie coming in government, as the Attorney
General has said, there, you know, there was a massive
debt and we've had to reprioritize funds in areas you
know that serve our government.

Speaker 5 (31:12):
And as she said, three hundred thousand.

Speaker 6 (31:13):
Dollars has been redirected to support legal aid, so now
they're funded, you know, correctly ongoing, and you know there's
actually Leanne Little's been brought in to do an internal
review with the police.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
So she's still in there, she's still working in there,
still conducting that review.

Speaker 6 (31:33):
She is, yes, So you know, I think we know
that laborf the review and they would review a one
hundred thousand dollars Joe, it is a tiny amount of
money in the scheme of government. Chance that three hundred
thousand dollars huge.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
You've redirected money to all the CLP pet projects, You've
all millions. There's a pet project, millions of dollars in
the territory coordinator six million dollars, seventeen staff, not one
project identified or fast tracked.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yet we're talking about three.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
Hundred thousand dollars, Katie, and the Attorney in General now
saying that police will review within, police will review police racism.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
No one should review themselves, Katie.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
But isntly a little reviewing reviewing it because she's absolutely
up to the job.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Lianne how Little is a very competent territory and absolutely
she works and is employed by the police. This needs
to be an independent review.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Because there is so mull that she can do that.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
I absolutely think Leanne is capable of doing the job.
But there are so many Territorians.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Let me finish, Joe.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
There are so many Territorians who are concerned, who are anxious,
who have anxiety currently about racism and if it exists
and where it exists systematically and systemically in the force.
This is a way to say to territorians, we're doing
an independent review so that a third party can come
in and look at those structures and help rebuild confidence

(33:02):
in the police force.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Jo what do you think?

Speaker 5 (33:04):
I just think, you know, it was a bit of
a contradiction.

Speaker 6 (33:08):
The three hundred thousand that has been reprioritized to redirected
to support the frontline legal services, I think is a worthy,
you know, redirection of funds.

Speaker 5 (33:19):
So now they can get on with doing the job
that they do best. And we have, as I said, Leanne.

Speaker 6 (33:25):
Little has been brought in to do the police internal review.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
One chance dollars.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
From the territory coordinator. Why didn't you take it from there?

Speaker 5 (33:35):
We got left an eleven billion dollar debt, but.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
You've gone an additional billion debt.

Speaker 6 (33:40):
This budget reprioritize funding in so many areas, Chancy, It's
just we cannot do everything extra.

Speaker 4 (33:47):
Look at this as a I'm looking this a broader
picture because when this Justice Agreement was signed in twenty
twenty one, there were there was meant to be reviews
into right across the departments, and since twenty twenty one
there's done what one almost completed. So it really begs
the question, why is it taking so long? Why is

(34:09):
it taking so long? We're twenty twenty one, we're now
in twenty twenty five. Why have we only got to
the position where we have one half completed? I mean,
chancing you might be able to say, why would it
take so long to get to this point?

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (34:22):
So, certainly there are actually two parts here. One the
review into the Department of Infrastructure, Planning and Logistics Dibble
at the time, that went through the process through attorney
generals around procurement, and then the Aboriginal Justice Agreement.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
The other money actually completed. No, no, it's actually finished.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
It was actually finished, and the department we're working through
those recommendations and the report was being finalized with the
Governance Committee. So you might want to do some fact checking,
but the three hundred thousand dollars was going over to
the Anti Discrimination Commission to trial how they could conduct
a racism review into the Northern Territory Police.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Never delivered because you cut it.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
But what about all the others? What about all the others?

Speaker 3 (35:01):
As I said, yeah, so again the Aboriginal Governance Committee
of the Aboriginal Justice Agreement were identifying which departments as
each department was finished to work through. Let's not lose
sight here. This government took three hundred thousand dollars away
from doing an independent races and review.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Having a crack at them about that, like is it
a bit hypocritical? Then when it wasn't completed while you
guys were in.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
Power again, Katie, the review was being worked through by
Andrew Kirkman and the Department of dipple around working with
the reviewer on areas within the department that needed to
be reviewed.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
So it sounds like there was a lot of talk
but not a huge amount of action.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
Well, there was certainly action because there was a person
doing the review, and there's a lot of inaction from
the CLP because they've just taken away three hundred thousand
dollars to do.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
All right, we are garage. You want to have my
last them.

Speaker 4 (35:53):
I say, I get what you're saying there about this
policing aspect. But even when you talk about independent reviews
or that the Prime Minister wouldn't even buy into, you know,
whether he would come in and get federal police to
look into the common Joe White case. And I mean,
it's a hot potato that no one wants to really
get in. But you're you know, you have the three
hundred thousand where is it gone? You can justify and

(36:13):
questioning all that, But I just I just look and
it just the fact we've got nowhere with the other departments,
to me, just that demonstrats that maybe the departments weren't
embracing this themselves. I don't know. Just a lot of
years have gone by for no result.

Speaker 5 (36:29):
That's all I think. There's the previous government loved to,
as I said, have a review or review a review.
Even the.

Speaker 6 (36:38):
There is a review happening, though it's an internal review
by the police, who.

Speaker 5 (36:42):
Are totally different.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
But that review is completely different to the racism review.

Speaker 6 (36:46):
But it's an internal racism review that Leanne Little has
been brought in to do.

Speaker 5 (36:50):
I don't know how you can say you can't.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
You have to approach like, how do you find this
position that you're asking an organization to review it self
on its own position on racism that.

Speaker 6 (37:07):
Respected a highly respect to the Aboriginal person as welly.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Full Disclosurely and I have family together, and I think
she's more than competent to do the job. But I
have a role as a politician to bring forth the
views and concerns of Territorians. And there are so many
people who are worried that police reviewing police about police
racism is not going to be thorough. They want an
independent investigation.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
I just think it's a little bit about bush.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
People are concerned, and they are cautious, they are anxious,
they are worried. In Alice Springs, Intenet Creek and Catherine
in the Bush. In Darwen Pumpson this says an independent
review is someone completely removed from either the government or
the police to do this important report.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
I just think when you look at somebody likely and
little and the respect that she has, I feel as though,
you know, I do think she is more than capable
of conducting that review.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
No one's questioning her capability. People are worried and they
are rightly concerned that someone who is sitting in police
shouldn't be being reviewing police.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
All right, we'll take a really quick break. The time
is flying by. You are listening to Mix one O
four nine's three sixty. It is the week that was,
and if you've just joined us, we've missed an hour
of power. As always, should be able to go back
and have a listen on Sunday morning or jump online
in the studio with us this morning, of course. Joe Hersey,
Gary Shipway and Chancey Paig. Now before I let you

(38:30):
all go, the government this morning announcing that they're going
to be cutting red tape and saving Territorian's time and
money through some common sense reform to light vehicle road
Worthy inspections. Joe, what exactly is this going to mean?

Speaker 5 (38:46):
I think this is a great initiative and announcement today. Katie.

Speaker 6 (38:51):
We know that when you go to MVR there's always
a Q people. That's one thing that people always bring
up with me are the time time that it takes
to go through the MVR.

Speaker 5 (39:03):
So as of the first of.

Speaker 6 (39:05):
January next year, twenty twenty six, light vehicles less than
ten years old will no longer require periodic roadworthy inspections,
in line with most Australian states and territories, and so
that's a great thing. So if your car is less
than ten years old, you don't have to go and
have an inspection. So that just means it more time

(39:25):
for you, less time that you have to line up
at the motor vehicle registry.

Speaker 5 (39:29):
And I think that's a great thing.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
I think it's going to be a winner. As someone
who's just been going, I've just had to go through
the process of registering two vehicles. So I've been last
month backwards and forwards motor vehicle at goiter wish Up
and look, those people are fantastic. They have the number
of people that are in there from earlier, right from
the opening close to finish, and these people are so patient,
so good. But I just think this is going to

(39:54):
save people time and money, and saving people money is
always a good thing and save particularly saving time and
the I mean it's it's not unique to hear that
happens in a state as well, So I just think, yeah,
anything that saves piped money and time is going to
be a win.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
Look, Katie, I think certainly hearing from people there. There's
already been measures. I think if a car was five
years and newer, it didn't need an inspection, So this
is just expanding it by another five years.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
But I think it's you know, it's.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
A bit it's a it's a bit cheeky of the
government because we've just heard Minister Hersey talking about MVR.
MVA do a great job, go down there a lot
with family, you know, licensing registration. If you want to
drive real, meaningful systemic change, increase the funding to bring
more people into the MVR officers so that they can

(40:42):
have their workloads reduced. That's what people want to see.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
If you.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
People were in Yeah, but Katie, MVR is a frontline service.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
People go down there and when they're sitting there for
hours because the government are not funding enough staff to
actually do these checks. That's a real issue that can
be addressed. But you know what, it's Friday, Katie. I
will say, look, this is this.

Speaker 5 (41:05):
Is an AMPLI take that one the second for the week.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
So I've given you to this week. People are going
to start talking. Building was nearly on fire yesterday.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
But you know, you know, this is obviously welcome news
from people in the territory.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
This additional five years before.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
I let everyone go hang on a sec what building
was nearly on fire?

Speaker 5 (41:24):
Yesterday?

Speaker 6 (41:26):
I had the fire alarms in Parliament House. Chancey was speaking.
Our budget was so hot.

Speaker 5 (41:32):
It was just it was.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
The alarminerating smoking so well, we all had to take
a few steps out, take a moment to cool off.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Everyone a j and b all gathered on the.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Lawn and waiting for the sprinklers to come home.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
Waited for a bit of a bit or something, but nothing,
so we all went back in and got on with.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
The jot on with the jaws.

Speaker 5 (41:52):
It was an interesting process.

Speaker 6 (41:54):
And Robin Lamley said, never in her period of time
at Parliament, she's never had that happen.

Speaker 5 (41:59):
Before you go, we parliament's been sitting. Chancey was actually delivery.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
I was midway through speech. The leader of the opposition,
minnes Or Selena You.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
She absolutely was the first one out of the building
getting everyone else to get out.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
So what did that say about your speech?

Speaker 2 (42:15):
She just wanted to be safe.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
But look, let's just say it was it was an
interesting unusual day in Parliament.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
All right, Well, we are going to have to leave
it there. Great to have you all in the studio
this morning. Joe Hersey, thank you so much for your time.

Speaker 6 (42:29):
Thanks Katie, and I just want to give a big
shout out to Bryce Forward, who's the NTS you know
born and Red Vight driver this weekend, So if you're
in Darwin, head down to the V Eights and it's
a very busy weekend, as all weekends all season are,
and yeah there's a lot going on. Get out and
support all the events that are on this weekend at

(42:53):
the at the V Eights.

Speaker 5 (42:54):
That's I'm heading.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Out absolutely, Gary ship Way.

Speaker 4 (42:57):
Thank you for your time, Welcome to everyone from here
for the Super Eights, and welcome to the Archaeologial Congress
two thousand wonderful people.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
We might have to do a live cross next week.
Sounds like.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Chatsy b Yeah, look, certainly. A big shout out to
Rice Forward as well here for the weekend. I'm sure
he'll be getting revved up by all the territorians. And
a big shout out again to all the public servants
for the last two weeks coming to estimates and really
doing the hard job.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
So shout out to everyone.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Joe and I are certainly getting back to the cooler country, cooler.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Absolutely, Oh, it's been lovely to have you all in
the studio this morning. Thank you so much for your time.
You are, of course listening to Mix one O four
point nine