The Week That Was – 21st February 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for the week. That was very pleased to say.
That's in the studio with us this morning. We've got
the Attorney General of the Northern Territory, Marie Claire booth Be,
Good morning to you. We've got the Speaker of the
Northern Territories Legislative Assembly, Robin Lambley, Good morning to you.
Good morning, Katie and Robin also of course the Independent
member Ferara. Look good to have you in the studio.

(00:21):
Matt Cunningham from Sky News Darwin, good morning to.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
You, morning Katie.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
And on the line live from Catherine, the Opposition leader
Selena Rubo.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Good morning, Good morning, Katy, good morning.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Lovely to have you on the show.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
Now.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
I tell you what, there is a lot to discuss
this week, and territorians absolutely furious after we learned yesterday
that a teenager charged over an incident that left an
Alice Springs baby with a fractured skull was on the
run after being granted bail to attend a funeral. Now
Matt Cunningham from Sky News obviously breaking this story that

(00:56):
the seventeen year old male was given bail on Monday
so he could attend a relative's funeral in the remote
Northern Territory community of Lajamanu. As I understand it now,
members from the Fugitive Task Force arrested that youth around
midday yesterday, so they recaptured him. Well, he's been remanded

(01:17):
in custody as I understand it now, and expected to
be charged again late yesterday. But sources telling Sky News
the teenager was flown to the community on Wednesday on
a chartered aircraft accompanied by staff from the Department of Territory,
Families and Communities, at a cost to taxpayers of more

(01:38):
than seven thousand dollars. But after attending that funeral, he absconded. Now,
I've got to tell you, I don't think that I
have had so many people contact the show over such
a short period of time in a long time as
what I did yesterday. People were absolutely furious, first off,

(01:59):
that so somebody involved in such a terrible situation to
begin with would be granted bailed to a tender funeral
by that judge, but then seven thousand dollars to the
tune of well at the taxpayer's expense to attend that funeral.
There's just so many aspects of this story that blow

(02:20):
your mind. Attorney General. I'll go to you first. What
was your reaction when you learned that this teenager had
been bailed and then we're paying for him to go
to a funeral?

Speaker 5 (02:31):
Katie. I can absolutely understand the outrage from the community
about this. It doesn't pass any kind of tests, and
I can't speak to the specifics because I am the
Attorney General and so there's this real separation with the
judges and their decisions. But what I will say though,
is this is yet another example of a broken system
that we have. You know, we went to the election

(02:53):
on you know, to reduce crime and was voted in
overwhelming to make changes. And the first one of the
first changes we made was to actually move youth Justice
where a lot of this stuff sits out of territory
families back in the day to the correction system. And
now the next stage is actually working with the Youth
Justice Act to make real changes because we have to

(03:15):
keep strengthening the laws these otherwise, you know, defense lawyers
and other people will find ways to, you know, find
loopholes to.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Ask a question about the laws because you change the
presumption of bail. And I know I've asked you this
before as to whether that is going to have the
desired effect because in this case the DPP opposed bail.
My understanding is the Department opposed bail, and yet the
judge still grants bail. So does that need do you
need to do? You need to change those laws so

(03:43):
that we're not talking about presumptions anymore. We're talking about Hey,
if if it's opposed by the DPP and it's opposed
by the Department, it's not a presumption for or against.
It's just no bail.

Speaker 5 (03:54):
And that's with the strengthening of the laws. That's where
we need to look at both the Bail Act and
the Youth just this Act in this case, plus the
sentencing which is a separate thing. But we have to
keep looking at those and making those changes, and we
will absolutely keep changing those things. We'll keep coming going
back into the departments and the different people are involved
in rewriting acts to ensure they meet community expectations and

(04:15):
they do strength and laws. We are already announced we're
going to rewrite the whole Youth Justice Act in particular,
but also look at the biol Act because we have
made changes already obviously in that first settings of Parliament
we did that really quickly. We wanted to make sure
that that was the first tranch of crime reducing policy
and legislation. And now we've got to keep going through
line by line of all those legislative frameworks to ensure

(04:38):
that community expectations is met. Because what we won't do
is what Labour did. Eight years of labor. They knew
all of these things were happening, they did nothing about it.
In fact, they water down.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
The law confirming. You are envisaging us getting to a
situation where there will be potentially someone comes before the
court applies for bail and the judge will have no
discretion at all. The rule will be these are the circumstances.
You've got this prior offending. You've you know, you've ticked

(05:09):
this box, you've ticked that box. No bail, there's no
discretion left for the judge whatsoever.

Speaker 5 (05:13):
We will keep working through all of that legislation to
ensure that community expectations are met. If you're a criminal,
you will be dealt with by the cause and you
will have to face consequences. And that is a very
different approach compared to what we had over the last
eight years.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
I think there needs to be because the fact is here,
like we can you can say all you like that
labor did this or labor did that, but the fact
is this has happened now under the celp RUS.

Speaker 5 (05:37):
We've been in for six months and we're having to
fix eight.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Years, and this situation is just unbelievable. Like, it's absolutely
unbelievable in terms of who paid this seven thousand dollars
more than seven thousand dollars seven thousand.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Sorry, I've got the actual figure seven thousand, six hundred
and eighty seven dollars, which is a quote that we
prepared for the Department.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Of Children and Family, so it came out of there.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Well, I can only be lodge.

Speaker 5 (06:06):
I don't have the actual facts of that one. I
can't say either way. Apologies for that. I didn't have
that information in front of me. But at the end
of the day, you know, we have to ensure that
the community's expectations are met. And you know, this is
a long breaken problem.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
That's a good question. They're not being met, are they No.

Speaker 5 (06:25):
They're not being met, absolutely, and this is why we
have to continue to work on these laws, like I said,
the bail laws, the youth justice laws, and then that way,
the judges have to make decisions a little.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
Bit further than that. I mean, okay, the judge decided
to ignore the recommendations of the DPP, But it was
a government department that paid for this kid on bail
to go to La Jamanu with a cast of thousands,

(06:57):
obviously being paid by the public purse, when he is
a very dangerous young man. Let's go back to the
start of this story. This young man allegedly almost killed
an infant. And despite the fact that the judge isn't
on the same page as the government obviously when it
comes to bail, it was a Northern Territory government department

(07:22):
that then decided to reward this kid who has behaved
more than appallingly in a way which doesn't meet public standards.
You've got a long way to go, Maurray Claire. I
know you have a long way to go. You've got
a big legacy of nonsense to sort out. But at
a very basic level, you should be telling your government

(07:44):
departments you do not reward bad behavior. Now, I know
that the type of people that work in children and
families in child protection wear their hearts on their sleeves,
and they would have thought, yes, this kid needs to
attend something significant going on in his fan family and
that that's important. No, what's important is that the community

(08:04):
is safe. He is fed and watered and given a
clean bed, and that's it. He is not rewarded in
any other way.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
The thing that struck me, right is I think to myself,
if I can't afford to go to a funeral, I
can't go to a funeral.

Speaker 4 (08:20):
We all don't go to funerals because we can't afford it.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
So how do we in a situation that's right? So
how are we in a situation where somebody who is
alleged to have committed, as Robin said, there a horrific crime,
we are then paying for them to go to a funeral.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
This is nuts.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
And not only that, if you look at the actual
conditions that he was given this temporary release on, it
looks as though the department has actually broken those conditions
because those conditions, which I've got right, say that the
accused is to be accompanied at all times larger Manu
by these three people, and the accused is only to

(09:06):
participate in funeral activities whilst at larger Manu. And we
know that on the way after the funeral, he has
said to them, oh, can you take me back to
my relatives house to get a few things, and they've said, yeah,
no worries. And it's there that he's got out of
the car and that's where he's jumped the fence. So
I mean, there really needs to be a full blown investigation.
I think you can do exactly what went on here.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Listeners were saying yesterday, heads need to roll over this.
That's the expectation of the community right now, right So
my question to you, Attorney General is what mechanisms are
now in place to And I get that obviously the
way in which the justice system works has to be
very separate from the Northern Territory government. But you know,

(09:49):
right now, even people are messaging through saying Katie, can
you ask the Attorney General how can legal professionals be
held to account when things go wrong?

Speaker 5 (09:59):
Yeah, Katie, it's a a question, and I think like
there does does need to be a thorough investigation into
all of those things that happened with not only beforehand,
but also after. And like I said, I don't have
the specifics around that from that particular department, but what
we know is that things aren't right. They're a mess.
The community is outraged and rightfully so, and that we

(10:20):
take this very seriously. I mean, these sorts of examples
that we continue to see is not acceptable. And so
as Attorney General, I will continue to look through all
those laws to ensure we can tighten them. And you know,
hold it, hold it apartments.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
What are the consequences? And I know there's a separation.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
There's a separation of power. But Marie Claire booed me,
the Attorney General cannot tell the judiciary what to do.
That's the seption.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
You can change, so that change.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
But she cannot sanction or hold judges to account for
the decisions.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Because this is I mean, this is the sort of
perverse thing, isn't it, Because if you stuff something up,
or you stuff something up, you've got to stand up
in front of the cal and explain what you did.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
But judges don't accountabilities.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Selena, I'm keen to get your take on this. I mean,
were you as shocked as the rest of us when
you learned that this young bloke's funeral, like his expenses
were paid to attend a funeral while he's meant to
be in custody for a horrific crime.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, Katie, I think absolute shock and outrage is what
I've been hearing from the community just over the last
twenty four hours. I mean, I was quite astounded to
hear of the story and the connections and the alleged
fender and what was what occurred. And I think territories
rightly so are asking how has this been allowed to happen?
And I know Marie Claire's talked about the new laws

(11:41):
and being tough on bail, but then putting adult justice
and youth justice together and then there's a clear gap
in this young person was not captured with those tough
on bail laws because they're now covered under the Youth
Justice Act. So huge gaps that haven't even been considered
obviously by the COLP. And that's how it's been allowed
to have And so we need to know, Katie, what

(12:03):
is going to occur? As Matt's asked the question, what
is the CLP going to do to cover these gaps?
The talking big on crime, talking tough on bao but oh,
actually that those laws that we changed last year on
urgency in Parliament that the CLP put through actually have
gaps in it. So how are those going to be feeled.
That's I think the clear message that I'm getting around

(12:25):
this particular incident. But we don't want to see any
incidents like this occur again, Katie. How are we going
to see the CLP government step up and fill those gaps?
That's the question that I'm asking.

Speaker 4 (12:36):
These things take time, and what I will say, going
back to when I was a minister of the COLP
government back in twenty twelve onwards, after years of labor,
there were people, there were public servants in the Northern
Territory that were embedded and philosophically opposed to our COLP

(12:58):
policies at that time. Being the same thing again years later,
after years of labor, there will be public servants that
will not want to do what this COLP government has
a mandate to fulfill and deliver. And I think this smell,
this incidence smells of that public servants possibly making decisions

(13:23):
that are not in line with the current government.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
So what I'm being told is that the Supreme Court
obviously ordered the youth to be allowed to attend his
grandfather's funeral under strict bail conditions. The Department of Children
and Families was then legally obliged to organize travel for
the youth at the order of the court. So, you know,
again I go back to and this is the big

(13:47):
question on everybody's lips at the moment, what is the
process now or what ability does the Northern Territory public
have in any way, shape or form to you know,
to raise concerns about a decision made by a judge
that not only doesn't pass our public standard, but then

(14:07):
we see something like this happen and we see it
cost the amount of money that it's that it has
not to mention how much it would have cost to
send I think it was search and rescue all the
TRG down there then to actually be able to recapture
Task Force.

Speaker 4 (14:22):
Yeah, maybe the judge.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Had to fly from da I mean it would have
been it would have been the seven thousand dollars double
and then somewhat much.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
To me, this sort of creates this bigger discussion where
for a lot of a lot of people, And even
this week I spoke to the sister of a victim
who was killed in a terrible, terrible incident in Yarrawonga
in which a twenty one year old stolen a vehicle
crashed it into that crashed that car into an industrial

(14:51):
shed in Yarrawanga in June last year, killing the forty
six year old man inside. Now, obviously that family totally
and utterly distraught as you would be, and and you know,
with the with the way in which I guess the
whole process is worked out, and I don't know exactly
where that breakdown is, but what I can sense from
the community right now is that they feel as though

(15:14):
decisions can be made within the judicial system. And then
there is no mechanism in terms of the public being
able to hold the judicial system to account in any way,
shape or form, And there isn't you know, most people
don't have the means, Most people don't have the ability
to Then how do you go against the judge's decision?

(15:34):
Even with this instance, with this youth, there is no like,
there's no it seems like there's absolutely no recourse.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
But a judge doesn't get to decide how governments spend
their money. There's still CEOs at the head of departments
that make decisions. So even that that, even though that
may have been a condition put by the judge on
the bail given to this kid, it's still the decision
of public senior public servance as to what happens next.

(16:02):
I mean, if there's no money, there's no money, if
it's if there's a security issue, if there's an issue
around the safety of the kid or the community, I
just don't buy that that had to happen.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
I think the point you were making before is a
really good one about government departments and government departments not
being very reluctant to do what the government of the
day wants them to. And I think that this government
is experiencing that already. It's called pushback, yeah, and it's happening.
I think it's happening particularly in the Department of Territory,
Families and Communities. And I think that the minister there

(16:37):
has been having a real struggle trying to get information
out of her own department. I know for a fact
she's struggled to get information about it. I remember experiencing
that out of her own department. I think it's happening
also in the Education department. I mean, we're now getting
slowly a drip feed of these just absolutely appalling remote
attendance figures. But the minister is having to up and

(17:00):
down with their own department to get the figures out
of our own department, where we subsequently learned that there's
more than seventeen hundred kids who actually aren't on the
role at all because they attend school so infrequently. But
getting that information, and you know, I thought that frustration
was one that just journalists felt that these days you're
getting anything out of a government department is near on impossible.

(17:21):
But it's the government of the day as well, and
I just think, I mean, have a look at what's
just happened in Victoria. I would say, like, if you're
part of a government department and you're not doing what
your minister wants you to do, or you're pushing back
or what was the word you were calling, pushback? Yeah, pushback.
I mean, you know, I think there's plenty of fat
in the public service. You know, if we wanted to
do some serious budget repair, you know, I think, you know,

(17:42):
if I was sitting there in a public service job,
I'd be wanting to do what the.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
Dosters need to assert their power and their control. They
are the ones in charge, and these ministers are still
learning their jobs. It's a difficult, difficult job.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
And I think it was that was one of the
greatest failings of the previous government is that they didn't
backing into the department. The department said, oh, this is
our advice, and then they just went, oh, okay, Well
the Department says this, and you know, there were one
hundred and fifty thousand voters out there going, oh my god,
that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Speaker 4 (18:10):
Public service has been running the Northern Territory for the
last eight years.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Well, I tell you right now, you know, people are
not happy at all with what happened earlier in the week.
They're furious in fact. So there does need to be
that change, there's no doubt about it. But I mean
the other part of this, as we've been talking about, is,
you know, we're too from here and Matt touched on
this right at the start, Murray Claire, we're too from

(18:37):
here in terms of you know, a strengthening, a tightening,
what can be done so that we are not in
a situation like this again.

Speaker 5 (18:45):
Yeah, Katie and all of you make very good points,
and I think that work that is being done right now,
and that's while we announce the Youth Justice rewrite is
because we have to ensure that we strengthen those laws
because the judicial system, which is independent, separate, but they
need to follow the laws that the Parliament sets. Will
put forward that legislation at every sittings to try and

(19:06):
tighten those laws. And you know what, if it doesn't
happen the next time, we'll keep tightening those laws right
up until we have a situation where criminals know that
it's not acceptable and they will be dealt with. There
will be consequences and they'll have to face them, and
they won't get the luxuries of going and doing all
the things that they want to do because the rights
of victims and the rights of the community should be

(19:27):
front and center and offenders don't have those same levels
of rights that we have seen them have over the
last number of years.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
Can I just read in the Australia today there's some
quotes from the Chief Justice Michael Grant in relation to
the changes that the government's made when it comes to
bail and the age of criminal responsibility, and he basically
says that they He says that they haven't had a
material impact. He says the reality is that regardless whether
the presumption of bail is for or against, the court

(19:55):
simply takes into consideration the matters set out in section
twenty four of the Bail Act to determine whether bail
should or should not be granted. That is largely onus
neutral undertaking. So he's basically saying that the changes you've
made are meaningless, Matt.

Speaker 5 (20:10):
Six months in and eight years of watering down the
Bail Act and the Youth Justice Acts. So both of
those acts and sentencing Acts as well, all need to
be looked at line by line to ensure that we
meet community expectations, because, like I said, the rights of
victims and the community have to be put above the
rights offenders. And we will keep doing that. And I'm

(20:30):
being going to be really clear to territorians and to
our whole system that we will continue to strengthen the
laws because we are absolutely going to ensure that offenders
are dealt with and that people can live in the
Northern Territory and enjoy their lives without worrying about the
criminals out on the streets.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
All right, we're going to take a really quick break.
You are listening to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was well, if you've just
joined us, we are indeed joined on the show this
morning by the Attorney General Maray Claire Boothby. We've also
got the Independent Member Ferrara lun and Speaker of the
Northern Territories Legislative Assembly, Robin Lamley, Matt Cunningham from Sky
News and the Opposition Leader Selina Rubo. Now in some

(21:08):
further news throughout this week or yesterday in fact, we
learned in some very disappointing news health Scope is going
to close the maternity and birthing services at the Darwin
Private Hospital. This is coming into play from the seventeenth
of April. The news has been incredibly distressing for a
lot of people. Steve Edgington this morning the Health Minister

(21:32):
making some further announcements in this space, saying that the
government's going to be taking action to assist Territorians affected
by the closure of the maternity and birthing services at
Darwin Private Hospital. Steve Edgington saying there were one hundred
and fourteen expectant families by the closure of the seventeenth
of April and the government is going to offer support
and that continuality of care. Now nt Health's dedicated clinicians

(21:58):
and midwives at maternity service are going to work with
those expectant mums and families to transition their care. So
they're also working in partnership with major private insurance providers
to develop alternative private maternity models and experiences and that
will complement the current public services at Royal Dalen Hospital.

(22:20):
Now these include a luxury post natal maternity retreat. New
parents are going to be able to stay at one
of Darwin's boutique hotels with their family. The retreat includes
twenty four to seven maternity support and the option to
stay with their partner for a number of days at
the resort with access to restaurants, etc. And returning home

(22:41):
Sooner packages where new parents will be able to return
home with twenty four to seven maternity support. Additional services
include cleaning, meal preparation and wellness programs and a new
Mum and bubb pack. Now that all sounds well and good,
but if you have any complications whatsoever, you're certainly not
going to be booking into a hotel for a start.
I mean for new mums having issues you know, and

(23:05):
needing to see a lack date specialist, all sorts of
things like, there's a lot of difficulties in this space.
It's really not as simple as you know, as what
those you know that some may realize. I'm trying to
think of the right words. But it's also you know,
like this is a loss in so many ways.

Speaker 4 (23:26):
It's a massive loss to Darwin, but the implications are
far beyond that. You're talking about the top end of
town who go to the Darwin private Hospital to have
their babies, partners of or professional people, politicians. You're talking
about people who pay that extra money for the privacy

(23:48):
and the luxury, and that will have implications the fact
that that no longer exists going forward, it will affect
the economic growth of of Darwin, sorry, the Northern Territory.
It has such far reaching implication.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Trouble speaking, I think that's absolutely true. Though it's a
really good point and it probably hasn't been covered as
much in the discussion around this issue. Defense is the
other one. You know, most Defense women would have their
babies at the private hospital, and one of the issues
that saw when the five seven Raar was split up
and the seven RAI was sent to Adelaide. One of

(24:29):
the issues back then was the fact that Defense was
having difficulty getting the partners of soldiers to stay in Darwin,
So that's not going to now that now that has
been joined again, but that's not going to help when
it comes to that situation. There has been a significant
drop off, like there was seven hundred or ten years ago,
it was seven hundred births a year at Darwin Private

(24:50):
and it's down to about three hundred now. So clearly
they've made a financial decision, but the impacts are going
to be far reaching. The pressure on the public hospital,
the population shoes, the staff issues, this is just a massive,
massive blow.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Well, I mean, Selena, you're probably the one who's most
recently had above. I'm not sure which you know, which
hospital you went through, which service you went through, but
there's no doubt women deserve options, right.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
Oh, absolutely, Katie. I think that's why it's such a
sad announcement for many, not just territory women, but families
and expectant mothers. To lose that choice of maternity care
is very it is quite stressful and it's a huge
part of life obviously in the cycle in having a
baby and being able to choose your care, and we

(25:35):
want to have your care should absolutely be available to
Territory women and we're not going to see that opportunity
of choice now, particularly in the top end. So I
think the decision is very far reaching and impacting, and
you know, we're very keen to see what the Health
Minister is working on. It sounds like he knew of

(25:57):
the decision before and everyone found out all together yesterday.
So what's going to happen to those families. How are
we going to see an opportunity for more care, choice
of maternity in the future for territory women and their families.
And a lot of people are going to be in
a bit of a headspin about this, Katie, because we
do have the right to have maternity care and choice

(26:18):
here in the nty.

Speaker 4 (26:20):
Well, we don't have it anywhere else apart from Darwin,
I have to say. I mean, if you live in
TenneT Creek, you've got to go to Alice Springs to
have your babies. But look what this opened up for me,
in my mind, was a whole argument around how money
has been spent in the Northern Territory over the last
eight years. We've got galleries, we've got more museums, more
car parks, beautiful roads in Darwin. Darwin's looking spectacular, but

(26:42):
our hospitals are crap and we need a major commitment
to upgrading all our hospitals so people want to come
here and live, and that includes birthing facilities, obstetric obstetric
facilities across the board. I mean the people who are

(27:04):
going to be disappointed and not being able to birth
at the Darwin Private Hospital, yes, I feel for them,
but it goes far beyond that. And also I'd like
to acknowledge the staff. They are devastated. A very good
friend of mine found out yesterday morning at eight o'clock
that she no longer has a position there.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
And it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking for the staff. And Robin,
you touch on a really good point there. I mean,
we do need serious investment into infrastructure across our hospitals,
right across the Northern Territory. I actually got Center video
by one of our listeners, Derby in the Dew earlier
in the week. He's in hospital at the moment, or
he was with a chest infection after having COVID and

(27:44):
the poor bugger is in a room right where there
is like He's Center video where there is literally a
portable I'm assuming like an air conditioner. This massive like
you know, this massive kind of pipe making all this
noise next to his beat. I get that they're trying
to cool it down. And it's not a it's certainly
not a criticism of the management or of the staff.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
At the hospital.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
To do with the infrastructure is so aging that you know,
if you're in there, your crook as a dog and
then you've got something like that, you know, be like
banging away next to you while you're trying to sleep.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, we've got to. We've got a brand new hospital
at Parmston with the maternity unit that's never used.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
That's astonishing.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Just for a bit of background, I don't closed the
Parmesan Hospital Marricle. It will not be a good political decision.

Speaker 5 (28:35):
I know the Minister for Health has been out to
the Palmson Hospital and the Royal day In Hospital and
walking through several times. Because you're right, Robin, the upstate
about hospitals is an absolute disarrayed ordinary at best. I've
been up there a number of times visiting people who
are up there and it is, Katie, it's horrendous, you know,
and there's so much work that needs to be done

(28:56):
there and an investment into those things.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
But we've got galleries, amused park oh last eight years.

Speaker 5 (29:02):
Who knows where they were sitting, because they certainly went
investing in our hospitals, and unfortunately this new.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Hospital built Murray Claire, well, get your eyes closed when
you're walking around Parmason.

Speaker 5 (29:11):
You didn't even open up half of the services.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
This is I mean, you know that goes back. Both
sides of politics and federal and territory are responsible for
that white elephant, you know, like John L. Frank was
turning the side and then unturning it if you remember
back in the day. So you know, I think we
can all take a bit of ownership over that decision.

Speaker 4 (29:29):
One new hospital in like forty years. Oh absolutely, but
we're doing well.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
That was like we should have like back you know,
in twenty ten. Instead of doing that, we should have
had a plan to build a brand new, big hospital.

Speaker 4 (29:42):
I've been calling for a new Alice Springs hospital for
ten years, ten years, and everyone's ignored me.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
So look, I've just got a message you from one
of our listeners actually, who's just said, good morning, Katie.
We would do to have our baby in June this year.
We've been told by our health insurance should we choose
to now go into state change obstetrician, et cetera. We'll
get two hundred dollars for a flight and one hundred
dollars for accommodation. How we expected to keep professionals like

(30:09):
ourselves in the Northern Territory. If we can't have basic
choices for a capital city, it makes you want to
move and not come back, says Ralph.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
Where are they flying for two hundred dollars? It's a
bachelor definitely.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
The health insurance never caught a flight out of the
Northern Territory. If they think that's how much a goss?

Speaker 4 (30:27):
I think that absolutely exemplifies what the point of the
main implication of this is all our professional people will
think twice about staying here and having that fan.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Well, another one coming through A and Pamo says good morning, Katie.
The E and T clinic had four doctors. I was
told on Wednesday there's now only one. There's a doctor
flown in from New Zealand for two weeks every month.
How shit is our health here? Says A And look
that's you know this is the thing right. Healthcare is

(31:01):
a fundamental for everybody I know.

Speaker 4 (31:04):
Museums are far more important Katie, you know that.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Selena, what do you make of those comments of course
by Robin there and also being made by the Attorney
General about the museums because you were the health minister.
I mean that's something that the government that you were
part of obviously chose to invest in rather than the
health infrastructure.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
Well, Katie, when we have good infrastructure, we also need
to support the professional pathways and making sure that we've
got those really keen and important health professionals and those
different pathways into the health profession So I know there's
been talk around feeling for the staff, but we also
need to make sure we've got more health professionals here

(31:43):
in the Northern Territory, whether that's home grown, whether that's
attracting those health professionals to the territory long term. I
know since COVID, Katie and I don't think anyone's forgotten
that horrible era, but we our health professionals really got
under under huge amounts of pressure and now we're seeing
around the rest of the country that pressure and the NT. Unfortunately,

(32:05):
although we love being unique, we're not unique in that
sense where we have seen now more fly and fly
out health professionals who do love working in the territory,
but don't want to stay here long term. So it
would be great to hear from the COLP and what
their plans are around that retention, around our health professionals,
because when we have that great infrastructure, we also need

(32:25):
to be able to fell it. Matt made the point
just a moment ago about the Palmerston Clean Apps excuse me,
the new Parmesan hospital that was built under labor and
unfortunately we haven't been able to have the maternity ward
operate there because of that deficit in some of our
health professional numbers. So how do we make sure that
the territory continues to be an attractive place for our

(32:48):
very important health.

Speaker 5 (32:49):
Professionals On the Art Gallery overspent On Tiger Brennan the
Motocross GP, like you keep.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
You're saying, do you have what you're saying? We're talking
about attraction to the Northern Territory. We heard from the
Deputy Prime Minister just the other day that the Northern
Territory is a huge strategic advantage for the rest of
the country. They need to recognize that down south just
as much as we know here that investment into the

(33:15):
territory lifestyle also not just looks after people who are
already here, but it also creates the opportunity to bring
people to the territory, to bring families to the territory,
and to keep them long term. If you're not investing
in the territory lifestyle, Mari clear, how are you going
to get people to live in the Northern Territory. How
are you going to get people to stay in the territory.

Speaker 4 (33:35):
Or lifestyle or need healthcare? Selena, that's.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
My point. How do you then make sure we have
the top quality health care and keep professionals here if
we're not investing in the territory lifestyle and infrastructure in
the territory And to me that but you just said
we're investing in art galleries and not into other areas
and talking about both things. You're talking about how do
we keep people in the territory and invest in the

(34:02):
lifestyle as well as the infrastructure to keep people here.
As me that Murray.

Speaker 5 (34:06):
Claire, imagine one hundred million dollars one hundred and forty
three million dollars that were spent on the art gallery
and the city being spent on our hospitals. That's the
point here.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
I think I think there's a bet there are better
examples than the art. I think there is a lifestyle
element to what governments need to do. You know, someone
who's raising a young family here in Darwin, like it
would be great actually if there was more to do.
But I think if you give a pet crocodile mate
and I don't know why, like seriously, that is so

(34:36):
far away from the Dallas strings yeah, well yeah, anyway.
But I think I think when it comes to spending,
I mean, look at the Tiger Brenn and drive over pass.
Have you seen that thing? I mean, if you're from
Alice Springs and you drive out to Parliament, you just
must shake your head and go, oh my god.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
I love coming up here. It's beautiful one hundred and
you are so lucky to live here. The amenities are incredible.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
They are one hundred and seventy million dollars. It's one
hundred million dollar blowout to get rid of one set
of traffic lights.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
It's insane, isn't it. And I will tell you that
for a whole year. If you've got to drive out
that way and you've had to be you know, you've
had to be going through the location. It was doing
your head in and you were wondering why it was
being built. But it was a massive, massive blowout of money.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
The other thing the Nightcliff Police Station, which we've spoken
about you know recently. I mean, oh my god, you know,
twelve million bucks for the police station, but whatever it
was for the whole fifty million for the rejuvenation of
that whole area for a police station that's not a
police station. And one thing that the government said recently
that I thought was instructive was when it talked about
us building these assets and making Billiams talking about this

(35:43):
and then making no plan in the budget for how
we're going to run them, so.

Speaker 4 (35:48):
You build the operation.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
No ongoing operational cost of Parmesan Hospital is a great
example because it's costing sixty million bucks a year to
run that thing, but that was never planned for when
it was built.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Same with the Art gallery though I'm pretty sure there's
no operational cost.

Speaker 5 (36:02):
Yeah, look, we budgeted four We are going to have.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
To take a really quick break. You are listening to
mix one O four nine's three sixty. It is the
week that was. You are listening to the week that
was in the studio. Of course we've got Murray Clare Boothby,
Robin Lanley, Matt Cunningham and on the line we've got
Selena Rubo. Now we were just talking about some of
the cost of different infrastructure. But the COLP yesterday the
government will saying that you've uncovered a financial disaster the

(36:29):
Motocross World Championships, the track project at Hidden Valley. So,
Murray Claire Boothby, you have said that this was announced
at costing one point six five million dollars to build
this motocross track without proper planning or budgeting. You reckon.
The real cost is going to be eight point one

(36:49):
five million dollars. How on earth is it costing that much?

Speaker 5 (36:54):
This is co plated. Yeah, it's an absolute disaster and
I just want to be really clear. The Motocross GP
is a very popular event and we will absolutely back
this and make this a wonderful thing. But what we
have found since coming to government is that the announcement
that was made about this one point six five million
dollars to have this event come to the territory, there

(37:14):
was no planning. There's no budget, not only around the
operational cost to move the track on and off over
the next five years, but the fact that the track
itself no one had budgeted for, the fact that it's
going to cost eight million dollars, which was absolutely eye watering.
So you know, now we had a look at this.
We went through the contract and we thought, okay, can
we get out of it? Like it's a huge amount
of money when we're in the hole that we're in,

(37:35):
But it was going to cost us more to get
out of it over the next five years than it
was to just go with the eight point five million.
Find that money somewhere else, which we did find because
there was NBL negotiations for a new team up here
that we're not budgeted for, not announced, but it was
being kind of talked about. So we went and found
that that money.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
How could you if the sorry NBL money hadn't been budgeted,
how could you find that money?

Speaker 5 (38:00):
Well, it was it was sitting there waiting to go
with a whole range of things with the Darwin Convention
Center as well on the waterfront. They were going to
build a brand new stadium to be able to host
this new NBL team. So we said, look, let's just
stop that because we can't afford that. That's a huge
amount of money. I think the total for the NBL
was going to be eighty five million or something like.
It's a huge amount, which sure one day would be wonderful,

(38:22):
but we're just not in that situation now. So the
money that was set aside for that stadium that was
going to be built for the NBL specifically, we used
to put towards the motocross because we have to have
this to be a success, and we do know not
only Territorians love their motorsport, but we will get people
from across the globe come to this. It's the last
event of the World Championship for the season. They'll be

(38:44):
in Asia just before Darwin. They'll come to Darwin, they'll
stay a bit longer.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
Hopefully.

Speaker 5 (38:48):
Look at our beautiful sites and attractions that we have here.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Many how many will come from overseas?

Speaker 4 (38:53):
Like?

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Is there a cost benefit analysis on this whole thing?

Speaker 5 (38:56):
Yeah? So the tickets are already on sale, and my
understanding is that they've had a lot of interest. Like
the numbers that are being talked about is, you know,
five thousand people who are registered as interested to buy
the tickets, and then that's starting to flown out with
ticket sales that are coming, and it's not just the
people coming to watch. There's like teams of you know,
people that we're speaking to the Port Daleenport Authority to
make sure we can get the freight in that's needed

(39:17):
because there's a lot of things going to come to
make one make this track, but two make the event possible.
So not ideal. We weren't, you know, once we uncovered
this amount, we were like, oh no, how are we
going to make this work? But we were we were
already too far into it. We have to make it work.
The other big problem with this, and I think it's
really important to note we talked about Tiger Brennan before,
is that when Tiger Brennan was planned, they closed the

(39:39):
second entry and shot it's right on Tiger Brennan into
the Hidden Valley Motorsports. Not only did that affect mud
mud racing and the quad bike racing, but it also
meant that there's no second emergency exit for the V
eight supercars or the MXGP and those That is like
a deal breaker. If we don't have that seton emergency exit,

(40:01):
none of those two big events can go ahead. So
we now have to go back to the design and
have a look at it and so well, how are
we going to have this second exit for emergency vehicles
to ensure that we can have these two big events
which are very popular and we want them to go ahead.
And of course I don't know the costume. It's an
absolutely debarkle like belief you look at has been an

(40:21):
absolute mess, but we're going to fix it. We'll work
through it to make it happen. We'll bring these events
to the territory. We know Territorians love it and it
brings people to Darwin. But yeah, it's amaz were.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
You Were you aware of how much this was actually
going at cost?

Speaker 3 (40:36):
No, Okatie. I've learned to obviously since not being in government,
what the blowout costs were unfortunately, but obviously we know
Territorians love their motorsports and it's good to hear Murray
clear say that the government's going to continue on this
international event that will be a draw card to the
Northern Territory. But yeah, I understand a huge jump in

(40:58):
costs like that. You know, it's it's got to be
explained somewhere. But I don't have any of those details
from even formally when I was in government. I didn't
hold a portfolio that had that kind of detail. Unfortunately
to be able to speak to that, I do.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Know, make a cabinet decision made though that you know
we're going to make We're going to actually do this,
and and you know it's this is how much it's
going to cost and a bit of a cost benefit analysis.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Yeah, there's always those processes, Katie, But obviously what would
have been presented at the time was what was initially costed,
which sounds like it's it's completely wrong. So you know,
there's got to be those questions asked about how did
it get so wrong and how was it presented?

Speaker 4 (41:37):
It was the Infrastructure Minister. Oh, Joe Bowden, that's right,
was it?

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Was it at the time? Yeah, I wonder like this
is I guess the big question I've got and this
was actually raised with me by a contractor, is that,
you know, we are in a situation where every project
just about it seems as though we're having massive blowouts
no matter what it is, or it seems as though
we did so does the new government does the colp
government need to actually get a bit tougher here If

(42:02):
people are tendering for jobs and just because somebody comes
in at the lowest. I mean, if they then have
variations that cost millions of dollars, do we go hundreds
of millions of dollars? Do we then? And look, I
know it's going to be difficult because with some projects
there are only some contractors that can actually deliver those.
But do you need to get a bit tougher here,

(42:22):
and do people actually need to tender at a more
appropriate amount of money because you're not going to pay
out the variations to that degree.

Speaker 4 (42:30):
The variations can't be unlimited when they always like a
percentage you would think. So look, I don't recall very clearly.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Well great, but seventy million to one hundred and seventy million, one.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
Million to nine million pretty big variations.

Speaker 5 (42:49):
I think what it comes down to is that the
minister ministers need to look at this really closely. And
I think our new Minister for Infrastructure is also the
Treasurer Bill Yan and as he's been going through all
these projects, I mean, he's a smart man. He's looking
at them and going Okay, this doesn't seem right. So
if things come up to ministers to you know, these
pictures come through all the time, and you know tenders

(43:11):
and budgets, and this is what we do every day
instead of just signing it off and go that sounds great,
that sounds like a good you know, election commitment or
a good announceable. Let's actually look at the detail and
if we can't deliver something within budget and on time,
then we need to question that and maybe not just rush.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Away were clearly could put our budgets. We're cooked, aren't we.
Like we've already said the fifteen billion dollar debt ceilings
out the door. Every project's blowing out by you know, millions,
tens of millions, one hundred million dollars.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
And I mean the thing is, if your own personal
budget was blowing out to that degree, like if you're
renovating your home and it blew out more than one
hundred percent, well you wouldn't be able to continue. That's
exactly right.

Speaker 5 (43:52):
Yeah, And that's why we're talking about all the changing
the game the frameworks for the economics side of things,
because we need to open up the private investment. We've
been so reliant on a government investment for so long
that you know, it's literally stifling us and sending us broke.
We need to ensure that we have the right frameworks
like the Territory Coordinator, like payroll tax reductions, like the

(44:12):
homegrown house building grants, like all of those things is out.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
What we're going to do are going to cost more money,
but they're.

Speaker 5 (44:19):
Going to attract people to the territory. So that's all
we need. We need slight, We need population growth instead
of population decline. We need a new private investment and
of course with new that those new projects under the
new frameworks that we have as a government will turn
things around. And it's going to take time, and yeah,
we are still dealing with a huge debt.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
We will take a very quick break before we get
ready to wrap up for the morning. You are listening
to the week that was. If you have just joined
us where you've missed a cracking hour of radio, you
will be able to head back online and take a
listen back to the week that was on the iHeartRadio
app or indeed on the Mixed one O four nine website. Now, look,
before we wrap up this morning, I do certainly want
to acknowledge a story that we did cover extensively earlier

(45:00):
in the week, and that is the passing of Veronica Wellings.
We know that the Northern Territory Police are continuing an
investigation after the forty year old, who was critically ill,
was rushed to hospital from a home in Humpty Doo
on Monday but later died. Now, as I said that
investigation continuing, and I said it earlier in the week,

(45:21):
but I will say again my thoughts and prayers with
Peter Wellings, with the whole Wellings family. I worked with
Peter up in Parliament House for the former Housing Minister
of the Day, Rob Knight. We shared an office for
quite some time. He's a beautiful man. I didn't know Veronica,
but I would say that if she was anything like
a dad, she would have been a lovely, lovely person.

(45:43):
So my heart goes out to their family. And I'm
sure that everybody on the panel, yourself most definitely Selena,
would agree with that sentiment.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Yeah, thanks Katie. It's extremely distressing for Willow and his family,
but yes, king of them all and seeing whatever we
can do to support in this very very tragic time.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yeah, absolutely, well, we are indeed ending on a sad note.
But thank you all so very much for your time
this morning. Selena Rubo, the opposition leader live from Catherine,
thank you for your time.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Thank you so much, Katie.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Thank you, Marie Claar Boothby, the Attorney General of the
Northern Territory, thanks for joining us.

Speaker 5 (46:22):
Thank you Katie and your listeners. Take care.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Robin Lamley, Well the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly and
also the Member Farra Lun, thank you for your time.

Speaker 4 (46:30):
Thank you Katie.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
And Matt Cunningham. Thanks mate. We've had you on a
couple of times this week as always. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Thanks Katie, and I would echo what you said about
Veronica Wellings and well oh of course a terrific bloke
and all of our thoughts go out to them this week.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely, Thank you all.