The Week That Was - 23rd May 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for the week that was, and we have
got a full lineup in here this morning joining me
in the studio. We've got Matt Cunningham from Sky News.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good morning to you, Matte, Morning Katie.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
And sharing a microphone this morning with the Independent Speaker,
well she's the Independent, she's also the Speaker for the
Northern Territories Legislative Assembly, Robin Lamley. Good morning to you, morning,
Kate and Robin. A little bit warmer here than Alice Springs.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm guessing apparently I'll find out tonight at about seven
o'clock when I get off the plane and freeze.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
We've got the Deputy Chief Minister, Jered Mayley. Good morning
to you, morning Katie.

Speaker 4 (00:32):
And what a win for the dolphins.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Oh mate, what a way to start Friday, the weekend
just about on a Friday, isn't it? Surely exactly? And
we have indeed got Selena Rubo, the opposition leader, Good
morning to you.

Speaker 5 (00:45):
Good morning Katie, morning to your listeners and shout out
to running Kaytown.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Well and Kaytown is definitely going to be a focus
for us this morning because unfortunately, between Catherine and Alice Springs,
there's been some incredibly serious issues. Tensions in our small
town centers have indeed been boiling, with residents in Alice
Springs concern following that very serious assault which we did
speak briefly about last week, which saw a twenty seven

(01:09):
year old man stabbed multiple times last week. Now that
altercation about twenty people blew up just after five o'clock
on Thursday afternoon. It's unfortunately not the only concern we
know residents in Catherine. They have described an escalation in
crime and just really bad behavior. We had it confirmed

(01:30):
on the show earlier in the week that will Words
in Catherine have indeed reduced their opening hours to minimize
safety concerns. We have spoken quite about quite a bit
about this in recent days. There's been quite a large
number of people contacting us saying wolf things are not
good in Catherine. I know that that's been a concern
obviously in Alice Springs as well for quite some time,

(01:53):
leading the opposition to call for the reinstatement of the
minimum floor price, established a dedicated task force to crack
down on secondary supply as well as looking at the
band drinkers register being in licensed premises. I mean, Robin,
you come from a town where there are obviously alcohol

(02:13):
restrictions in place. Do you feel as though that makes
a difference.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
I don't think it makes a difference in terms of
reducing crime, but it gives us some respite. Those two
alcohol takeaway alcohol free days Mondays and Tuesdays. I think
that's worked very well in terms of just giving us
a break. But it's interesting, Katie, from my perspective, these
things are rolling north. We reduced the opening hours of

(02:43):
our supermarkets years ago. We've had a lot of alcohol restrictions,
as people would know, of different types in place for
many years. It's moving up the track. Of course, Tenant
Creek is probably on par with us. But Catherine contemplating
all these things is probably what we did a few
years back. The BDR inside of licensed premises labour didn't

(03:05):
have an appetite for it. I don't know if the
CLP does, but I'd be surprised if they do. It's
just more and more restrictions on people's ability to live
a reasonably normal life. But yes, I'm getting calls from
Alice Springs for that too, So I'm not sure what
you will do about that, Jared.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, I mean, is it something that realistically does need
to be looked at here. It's quite phenomenal when you
think about the fact I suppose that people, you know,
if they're on the BDR, they can't go and purchase
takeaway alcohol. But I know that there's certainly been questions
raised throughout this week by our listeners as to why
you should then be able to still go in to
a licensed venue if you're a banned drinker. Should that

(03:43):
only mean banned from drinking takeaway?

Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah, Look, we understand there is an issue that right
across the Northern territory. We know that there's been eight
years and no consequences in relation to crimes and it's
a big tip to turn around. And we've strengthened BAIOL laws.
Just last month we recalled Parliament to strengthened BIOL laws. Again.
We are taking this seriously. Innerlation to the BDR. We
are going to review that and we've started that review
right at the moment. We need to go out and

(04:06):
we understand the hospitality people have said that they don't
support it, so we need to get a broad brush
approach of this workout what can we do to make
sure that we actually target these individual who committing crimes
versus the rights of people to be able to live
in a normal life, like Robin just said, So we're
to get that balance right. So we are in the
middle of a BDR review. We are looking at it
because you're right, something needs to happen. We can't go

(04:28):
on like this. There needs to be a consequence for
your action.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Can I just get this, like my head around this.
I mean, the Northern Territory Police obviously said on the
show yesterday that there's the number of band drinker orders
that have been issued for this month alone in that
area in the Catherine region three hundred and thirty two
comparatively to seventy three in February. Like, that's a massive
number of band drinker orders that have obviously been issued.

(04:53):
But you know, like if you then go into a
license venue and you've got a band drinker order, what's
stopping you from getting a drink? Because it CA can't
expect the like surely you can't expect you know, the
people working behind a bar to ask somebody or they
can't they don't even have a means to check if
someone's on the on the BDR.

Speaker 4 (05:09):
That's why we need to make sure that we get
this right, because with no point having a load of
you can't enforce it. If you're at the bar and
we're here today, if someone does a shout, which happens
quite regularly, how do you know you're going by two
or three beers. That all needs to be worked out.
That's why we need to get that balance right, Katie,
between stopping the people who are actually dealing with the
alcohol and we kind of deal with the supply and demand,

(05:29):
and we want to make sure that the demand goes down.
We're talking about media here to stop the supply, which
interferes with everyday lives to and fro. But what about
the demand. We're talking about the Mantu alcohol crimin that
we're also bringing in. It's one of our commitments. We're
working that as well. I know the Health Minister see
if Angus is working hard on that.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
So we need expected to come into play. Well.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
There's a lot of being worked done behind the scenes
on that at the moment. As you can imagine, this
is very complicated. We need to get that right as well.
And the last thing we want to do, Katie is
bring something that doesn't work. We want to make sure
that the people who are addicted to alcohol have some
sort of rebilitation and we're doing that through directions as well.
So we're working at this right across the board. It's
a big ship to turn around. There's been eight years
and no consequences of people doing what they want and

(06:10):
talking about these numbers. So you're going to shout out
the police are doing a great job. Yeah, right across
the Rificuly in my view, Katie, is that there's been
no consequence and to do what you want now the
police have been told to go out there. We need
to deal with the crime. We've got tougher bail laws.
There is a real drive from the Silky government to
reduce crime right across the Northern Church, no matter where

(06:30):
you're living in and working hard to do it.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
I mean, Selena, if the former government so, I guess
you know, I understand obviously that you're in opposition now,
but if you are so firm on the fact that
people on the BDR, you know, shouldn't realistically be able
to drink inside licensed premises, why wasn't that something that
the former government looked at.

Speaker 5 (06:50):
Yeah, Katie, I know that there was some conversations and
there was a licensed venue and I believe it was
an Alice Springs that offered to be one of those
trials license venues. I'm not sure. I can't speak to
why it didn't happen. Take responsibility obviously as part of
the team prior in government. But you know, what we've
tried to do this week is be constructive in just

(07:12):
some offerings again, I mean sort of using Robin's language
around respite, like, what are some things that could happen quickly?
What are some of the actions and measures that could
create the opportunity to, you know, while the review is happening,
what Jared's talked about. But people really want to see action.
I mean, we can blame labor for the last eight years.
That's fine, I'll take responsibility for that. But what people

(07:34):
want now is they want to see action, Katie. So
what we've tried to do in opposition is to provide
some measures which we think the government can really just
take up quite quickly with those five key points. And
we discussed that earlier this week on Monday.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
So I think I reckon that action is happening because
those statues just read out of these all these banded
rincken Richard is showing that the police are doing something.
So all those people who were previously could go and
buy alcohol and go and drink it are now restrictedself.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
They still want to well do you get what I'm
saying though, that they still can inside a license venue, right,
one hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (08:05):
But when you're in a licensed venue.

Speaker 5 (08:06):
You're there.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
Yeah, there is obviously dourving alcohol and secure in place.
A lot of this stuff happens when you go home
behind the door and they buy rum or whatever it
might be, and drink too much of it and then
think it's okay to harm yourself or someone else or
someone you love.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Would you Yeah, but when in our Springs moment, from
all reports, what happened in Alice Springs last week happened
after they were drinking on a licensed premises for several
hours before it's spilled out onto the streets. So surely
you've got to have a look at that issue as well.

Speaker 4 (08:34):
You think so that the police and the licensee needs
to look down. And I'm sure that there's been reviews
from the police in relation to what's going on. Because
if you're breaking the law, cater, you're breaking them in
a licensed premises, if you're at home, if the licensees
aren't doing the right thing. We all need to work
together because this is a really serious issue and not
one thing's going to solve it.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
No, And there's a few elements here as well that
I think are worth talking about, Like obviously the alcohol
issue is one that we always talk about, and I
know even when things were flaring up really bad and
Alice Springs. Certainly alcohol is a measure that gets looked
at straight away. But one of the other things that
we've certainly been told is happening in Catherine. For example,
we caught up with business owner Trent de With on

(09:12):
the show last week. Selena. I know you spoke to
him as well on Friday AVO, but he'd actually said
that there were kids coming into town from various communities
on buses unsupervised. His mum was one of the victims
or one of the people who one teenager tried to
steal a bag from. Fortunately didn't get that bag. But

(09:33):
we've also seen in Catherine, just a couple of weeks ago,
a senior female Territorian knocked to the ground when she
had had her belonging stolen and wound up allegedly with
a fractured hip. You know, to me, that is a terrible,
terrible situation. But my question is how can young people
come into town unsupervised if that is indeed the case,

(09:56):
But also what measures need to be looked at if
people are traveling in from you know, whether you're coming
from the Gold Coast, whether you're coming from a remote community,
wherever you are coming from. If you are coming into
a town center and you are breaking the law, you
know what measures are in place to get your back home.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Well, look one thing on the education is a big thing, Katie,
and if these young people are not at school, you
have to ask a question why not? And I know
the minister who's you've been working hard in the truancies
officers to make sure that they go and see who's
out there, Go and talk to the children, talk to
their families and then get the circuit breaker program, which
is another program that deals with the family units to
try and work out what the issue is. Because we

(10:36):
know it's the law that every child you go to school.
And if you're a parent and you're not letting a
kids go to school, you need to say why and
what the circumstances are. And some of those people need
some help and wrap around services, and that's why the
cop is working hard with a circuit breaker program to
be able to go and talk to those families in
those communities and say, why is this happening, what can
we do to make it better? And what can we
do to help you become better people and better community members.

(10:59):
So that's all happen and the evidence is that, and
that's all fair enough.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
I mean, do we also need to look at Robert
I know in Alice Springs and please correct me if
I'm wrong, but certainly The Australian newspaper had reported that
two of the people involved in the incident last week
had actually traveled into town after royalty payments and were
in town to access alcohol because they actually can't in
their community allegedly.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
Well, this is our life in Alice Springs. I've been
there for thirty years. Nothing's changed. That's what people do.
They get the money, They come into town like normal
people would to have a bit of fun. Things get
out of hand. The kids are roaming around the streets
doing their own thing. The phenomenon of people leaving their

(11:42):
kids in town while and going back at Bush's, We've
known about that for a long time. Look, I remember ironically,
even LAWLA saying it's one by one that you've got
to approach these things, and I think to a certain extent,
all the government in the world you still need that

(12:03):
sort of case management approach where you're identifying kids one
by one, families one by one and working with them,
which I think is what the Circuit Breaker team is
doing in Alice Springs at the moment. But let's not
pretend that this will ever come to an end, because
it's been going on for decades. Nothing's changed. It's probably

(12:25):
got worse. So we just have to keep plotting away,
supporting families, making families accountable, making parents responsible, and hurting
up these kids and offering them a bed or whatever
it is they need to keep them away from doing
the wrong thing and harm to themselves. Look, it's about
a punitive approach, but it's about a caring approach. At

(12:47):
the same time.

Speaker 4 (12:48):
What we're also doing is resourcing the police. Batter we've
gone to power and we've made laws to give the
police more power. We're recruiting police as we speak. We
really need to make sure that they have the power
to do their job with the one ding and the
police powers. So we're working that and we've done that,
So I don't think I agree with you, Rob with
one thing. We need to do multiple things, but not
at a time. They all need to go together, moving

(13:09):
forward at the same time, one by one, giving the
police more power, strengthening the laws. All those things need
to go. And it is a big ship to turn around.
There's been a long time of no consequences and we
are doing it and I think it is happening, and
people are telling me that they are feeling green shoots
and are feeling safer. But it's been nine months or so.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
With strengthen people where I live on saying that.

Speaker 6 (13:30):
And not either.

Speaker 5 (13:30):
I was going to ask, is there an actual just
a specific plan for Catherine? And I mean, obviously you've
got government minister there with Joe Hersey, and is there
going to be coming together of different ideas that can
then be the multiple approach that you're talking about, But
is there one specifically for Catherine or has the same
pa government got one for Catherine.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
The police are working on that, working with the Jointies officers,
working with Circuit Breaker. So what we've directed those resources
into Catherine because we need to nip it in the
butt we need to make sure and it is a
one by one approach we need to go on.

Speaker 5 (14:00):
But resource that's a great Jared, But what's the actual
plan that the race.

Speaker 6 (14:07):
That's really disappointing for the.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
People to make the territory a safe place. Now.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
I know what.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
I caught up with Joe Hersey yesterday I believe it was,
or maybe the day before. She did say that she
was going to be meeting I believe with the Jarwan
Association and also with Kolano in terms of some of
the kids coming into town and some of the issues
there that they're experiencing. I know that there was also
going to be an increase I believe of the truancy officers.

(14:33):
I'm not too sure whether that has has happened or not,
but yeah, so, and we did hear from the Northern
Territory Police what they're doing at this point in time.
But again I will go back to the fact that
with those band drinker orders, Yes, I think that is
excellent that we've seen the increase of people receiving those
band drinker orders if they are drinking or behaving in
a way that they should not be and in criminal activity.

(14:56):
But there does need to be a strengthening of that
that and drinkers register. Otherwise it seems quite ineffective, Katie.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
It could happen using the Band Drinkers Register on licensed premises.
Could happen very easily for most licensed premises in Alice
Springs because most of them now have security at the
front door, and it would be very easy to have
a scanner and if someone's on the BDR, no you're

(15:25):
not coming in, as simple as that. Where it gets
complicated is, you know, the restaurants and like casinos and
things like that. But most of the pubs in town definitely.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Well in the likes of security on the front.

Speaker 6 (15:42):
So obviously aren't in cafes and restaurants.

Speaker 5 (15:44):
So could there be the opportunity that while the government
is doing their review and how long it takes, whoever
knows that there is that opportunity, like Robin said, something
that's installed quickly, but focusing on those hot spots, like
everyone across the territory knows where there's some problem parts
and clubs that could have this installed quite quickly and
create some type of relief and respite, but accountability mostly Katie,

(16:08):
this is something that already happens on the Gold Coast.
This is something that already happens in cans why can't
it happen here in the Northern Territory.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
I would make the broader point, though, Katie, that for
all of the alcohol restrictions that we've put in place
in the Northern Territory over the time that I've lived here,
starting with the first incarnation of the band drinker register
and the floor price and everything else that we have
done over that period of time, We've still seen these

(16:35):
issues get worse. So I don't know whether any of
those measures have necessarily been effective. I know there are
people who advocate advocate for them, and I've seen some
data released around them that I don't think is necessarily accurate.
I think if you look at the raw data when
it comes to a lot of these measures, whether it's
the band drinker register, whether it's the floor price, when

(16:56):
they've been brought in, I don't think they've had a
huge impact. The one exception I would say is the
police on bottle shops. That and people do say that,
and you'd have to argue as well whether that's something
that should be considered in Darwin. But at the same time,
it's a huge expense and to have. Honestly, I mean

(17:17):
we have pala's now rather than actual sworn police officers.
But what sort of state are we in if we
haven't put a police officer on every bottle shop a little.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
Bit, Matt, take those coppers off the police even for
twenty four hours, and it's a disaster in Alice fit
So that absolutely work. But I take your point. Nothing's
got better. Overall crime and anti social behavior has deteriorated
despite the extreme alcohol restrictions we have in Oura Springs.
So I take your point, but it's a moving feast.

(17:48):
If you put the BDR at the front entrance of
every pub and club in Oura Springs, you would see
a difference even if it only lasted for four or
five weeks optimistically, And then you look at the next strategy.
You can never take your eye off the ball one
hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
We're not working on the actual demand. We need to
make sure we curve the demand now.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
I do just want to read out a couple of
messages that we've received actually on the tech signe. There's
one here that says we're also hearing that the reduction
in trading hours at will words in Catherine is due
to staff being attacked at ten pm when they knock off.
That's according to one source that that is the main
reason for it. Now, Jody and Brett at Jody and
Brettwild at Catherine Laser Wash shout out to them now

(18:29):
they've said, morning, Katie, We're a business, we are business owners.
In Catherine, the public drunkenness to the point of can't
even stand up anymore. We see it all the time
over the road from our business in the caravan parking area.
I mean, you know, that's like that's a public health
issue in a lot of ways as well.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
And I know things are really bad in Catherine and
they've been really bad, but in Dartwin as well. I
mean I drive twelve times a week to the Mararas
Bording Complex and I don't know whether anyone else's notice,
but in the last three or four weeks, every time
I drive there, every time I drive past that service
station that's on the corner on McMillan's road and drive
into Marra, you are guaranteed to see someone who is

(19:08):
passed out drunk on lying on a footpath on the
side of the road. There was a big camp that
was there for a while. That was where the rapid
Creek overflow area is. And it doesn't appear like we've
got public nuisance drinking laws. It doesn't appear that they
are being enforced because truly there's not enough police to

(19:30):
enforce them. It doesn't appear that any of the wrap
around services that exist are getting there and helping those
because you see little kids there as well as part
of the group. So there's a real I mean, there's
a real breakdown either in what we're trying to do
not being done, or whether we don't have the resources
to do what we say we want to do.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
But I agree, but I disagree with in relation to
we are resourcing the police. We know that under the
previous government that they were let down and powers are
taken away. We've turned that around. It's been nine months
and you're saying that you we speaking to people who
don't feel safe on speaking to people who do. But
at least there are people now seeing I'm feeling better.
We're previously there was not everyone's hands up. I'm leaving
the territory.

Speaker 5 (20:08):
So it is we're going to come to Cattle and
listen to the people of Castle.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
You were in power for eight years and you caused this.
You need to take and let you're the problems. We
are trying to fix it. It's a big ship to
turn around, and I generally believe that it is turning around.
But it is turned around slowly, don't get me wrong.
But we need to focus on the actual demand, which
is that alcohol rehabilitation to manage, which we're doing. We've
got some programs in prison because lot of people end
up in prison about alcohol and rage and family violence.

(20:34):
Those programs are up and running. We know under the
previous government the prison system was collapsing and those programs
weren't happening overcrowding. We're fixing all that. We're getting these
programs up and running because we need to make sure
that people going.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
It cannot happen fast enough. It cannot happen fast enough.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
Can I just say that in twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen,
and part of twenty sixteen, under alcohol mandatory treatment, public
drunkenness was all but eliminated. So bring it on, Jared.
You guys have promised to bring it back. I know
it was heavily criticized for different reasons, but it did
almost eliminate drunks on the street.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
All right, we're going to have to take a really
quick break. You are listening to Mix one oh four nine.
It is the week that was. You are listening to
the week that was, And if you've just joined us
in the studio with us this morning. We have got
the Opposition leader Selena Rubo. We've got Jared Mayley, the
Deputy Chief Minister. We've got the Speaker of the Northern
Territories Legislative Assembly, Robin Lamley, and we've got Matt Cunningham. Now,

(21:29):
the leader of the Opposition has referred what she's described
as allegations in relation to the potential misuse of public
funds and mismanagement of conflicts of interest at the Darwin
Waterfront Corporation to the Public Accounts Committee now in Parliament. Selena,
you said that allegations are the allegations, sorry, are too

(21:49):
serious and the public money involved too significant to be
swept under the rug. Can you outline for us exactly
what the allegations are.

Speaker 5 (22:01):
On Wednesday evening, I referred to the Public Accounts Committee.
That's the Committee of Parliament. It's a multi party committee.
It's got COLP, it's got Labor it's got an independent
member on it, and what they do is they focus
on the use of public funds and they've got mechanisms
to be able to investigate it, to report, to do

(22:22):
hearings on receive submissions around those public funds. So in opposition, unfortunately,
we don't really have many mechanisms to be able to
provide answers to questions to the concerns that have been
raised by many territories to me and my team and
our officers. Just this morning too, Katie, I had someone
stop me on my morning walk and say, you know,
we really want to see some answers around this, and

(22:44):
I said, yeah, We've done what we can do. The
Public Accounts Committee, we believe is the right forum for
that to look at some of the allegations, which is
the misuse and mismanagement of public funds with the dual
and Waterfront Corporation.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Now, I want to be really upfrontier. Obviously, my husband
is now the chair of the Darwin Waterfront Corporation. As
I've said on numerous occasions on this show. He took
over from Richard Fijo about six months ago. Again, I'll
ask you what exactly are the allegations and what year
did this happen.

Speaker 6 (23:14):
Yeah, most of.

Speaker 5 (23:15):
The allegations did occur under the former Labor government.

Speaker 6 (23:18):
I've been very open about that.

Speaker 5 (23:21):
I wouldn't be doing my job, Katie if I wasn't
demanding some answers, because that's what you've got to do
when you're talking about public accountability. I acknowledge that most
of the allegations that have been brought to us and
that have been reported on are around the time frames
under our former labor government. But I think that my duty,
I would not be holding my head up high in
the role that I have if I wasn't asking those Oh, I.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Guess that, But I still can't wrap my hand around
what the allegations are.

Speaker 6 (23:45):
Oh, the allegations.

Speaker 5 (23:46):
So there's the allegations around the movement of funds, Allegations
that the former CEO had higher duties the job that
were the higher duties finished, they were still receiving funds
after that high duty's role finished, and that there was
some changes around the from one division within the government

(24:10):
to another to pay for some of this higher duty.
So the movement from one fund to another without any
formal processes, without anything, you know, in budget books being changed.

Speaker 6 (24:19):
So I can't answer those questions that I've referred.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
It, but you were in government at the time, so
presumably if there was something, if there was an allegation
of fraud, as you had referred to in Parliament throughout
the week, that you'd actually report it to the Ikak caney.

Speaker 5 (24:35):
In terms of the Daln Waterfront Corporation, they do have
some of their own mechanisms, but they still are funded
by taxpayers dollars. What I would like to see is
the questions that have been raised with us provide some
type of response or answer if that's even possible. If
there's something that goes further to that, then of course
there would be the duty to report to KAK.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
I mean, there's a lot of ifs that you're saying there,
and you sort of use a lot of padding words
around those allegations. I know that that. Obviously, the Waterfront
have come out up and said that they fully believe
the words are, that they fully accept or support that referral.
They've said that the board operates with transparency and integrity

(25:17):
in compliance with the Darwin Waterfront Corporation Act of two
thousand and six, applying high standards of Governance. So I
guess my question is, I mean again, do you feel
as though under the former government that there was some
kind of fraudulent or corrupt behavior going on? And if
there was, why haven't you referred it to the Ikak.

Speaker 5 (25:38):
Well, Katie, I would love to see some answers around
the questions. I don't have enough information. I never had
a portfolio that related to the dar Wars.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
If you don't have enough information, why didn't you take
up the Waterfront's offer of a briefing?

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (25:51):
So, I will absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Why didn't you take that up before you before you
made this referral in parliament? We're off of that on Friday?

Speaker 6 (25:58):
Yeah, I was offering a Friday.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
You don't have enough information. You had the opportunity to
get the information. But Matt, this goes you rejected it
before you raise the issue in parliament.

Speaker 5 (26:09):
No, No, the question is to me, Jared, not you, Matt.
I can definitely answer that. So I will take up
the briefing. It was provided or the offer was provided
to me on Friday.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
I believe it's Monday last week that you provided that offer.

Speaker 6 (26:22):
Oh okay, if it was Monday, I haven't got to it.
I will do it.

Speaker 5 (26:25):
But what is concerning is that there is multiple not one.
There is multiple allegations that need to be looked at,
and if it can be cleared up, I think the
Public Accounts Committee will be the best option to do
that and once and for all. If there's no wrongdoing,
that's great. But how can we have confidence in our
public institutions if we do not have the answer?

Speaker 2 (26:45):
I actually think the best way to clear it up
would be for the Attorney General to release the advice
that she has since been given.

Speaker 6 (26:54):
Which she hasn't. We have asked for much and I
agree with.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
You, So I guess the question is to Jared want
to make that public?

Speaker 4 (27:00):
I want to say, why won't you release that? I'll
answer the question, but before I get started, this makes
you really angry this whole topic, because this is your
pure guarded politics at its best. The selene ebo here,
the the leaving opposition is just playing politics with the
public servants. But she's named a number of public servants
over the week in parliament. She named my brother in
parliament and it's just cowards castles.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Talk about your brother at all? Can stop.

Speaker 6 (27:28):
Jeredy this about your brother?

Speaker 4 (27:30):
Who does this outside the parliament, she would be getting
sued so quickly.

Speaker 6 (27:33):
Wouldn't talk about your brother. Don't labor, your.

Speaker 4 (27:36):
Labor spoke about my brother.

Speaker 6 (27:38):
You're talking about me.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
You're talking about.

Speaker 6 (27:41):
Can we get back?

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Can we get back to the cut of the issue,
because if you go, if you go over, some of
us remember things, and I remember Leaf when she was
the opposition leader making a big thing of the so
called cocaine sex scandal within Labor and at the time
people were saying, God, has she gone too far? Has
she risked her credibility on this issue? And in the
end she was proven to be correct because she prosecuted it,

(28:02):
which is what Selena's doing at the moment. So I
just would rather go to the crux of the issue.
When why the Attorney General won't release the advice that
she has that says that there's nothing to see here.
Wouldn't that clear the whole thing up?

Speaker 4 (28:15):
There is nothing these are honestly, if.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
There's nothing, if there's nothing to see here.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
Release documents tabled in parliament to IKAK. Was a letter
that she wrote to IKQ and some online articles because
I don't have.

Speaker 5 (28:27):
The information that you and you have had briefing to.

Speaker 4 (28:31):
Get the information. You chose not to do it because what.

Speaker 6 (28:34):
You're doing is you're attacking.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
Brief This is absolutely embarrassing. You should hold your head
in shame because it's a disgrace. The way you've acted
in this whole episode is disgusting. You're naming people who
can't defend themselves and you're purely trying to attack the
leader of opposition through other people, which is an absolute disgrace.
Should be so the Chief Minister absolutely disgusted in yourself.
This is unsubstantiated. These claims are absolutely nothing there that's.

Speaker 6 (29:02):
Clear out and see what the account community goes back.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
I guess the question I would ask.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
Is you were trying to score priltical points about this.
It's an absolute joke, Robin.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
I'm keen to know what you think. I mean, you've
sat in Parliament for a long long time, You've seen
lots of things.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Well, I don't have any view on these allegations. In fact,
the whole waterfront phenomenon has been a mystery to me
ever since I've been in politics. So I welcome any
sort of inquiry into the waterfront because I don't have.

Speaker 6 (29:31):
Well, it does and I think for the waterfront this
year as well.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
Let's broaden it out into a much borter inquiry into
why we even have the Darwin Waterfront. But what I
do welcome is the use of the Public Accounts Committee
to do their job to scrutinize government. I was a
member of the Public Accounts Committee for four years, the
last four years of the last Parliament under the member

(29:57):
the former Member for Johnston who I'll never forget, Joel Bowden.
And we did one inquiry in four years. So generally speaking,
bring it on. Let's refer lots of these sorts of
problems or potential Yeah, and I menomers to the Public
Accounts Committee. Let's see democracy in action.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Well, and the thing is I will say that the
Darwin Waterfront have said that they welcome it. You know,
they don't seem as though they're overly concerned about it.
They seem as though they're more than happy to welcome
to welcome going to the Public Accounts Committee from the
statement that they issue it up political game.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
I do I agree with your point about the Darmen Waterfall.
I do question why the Dalhmen Waterfront can't just be
offerated by the operated by the public service. It's like
the public servants get a second bite to the cherry
to be on the Darwin Waterfront board or executive or
however it works, you know, which just seems like, you know,
when we have so much waste in government's mending that

(30:55):
the government's talking about at the moment, I just I
don't understand why it operates like that. You come from Alice,
I'm sure, I'm sure a lot of things that when
you come from Alice Springs are a mystery.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
Robin.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Maybe we get to that when we can talk about
the empty art. But I also think the fact that
that Selena is referring this to the Public Accounts Committee
shows that Territorians and our politicians have completely lost faith
and confidence in the IKAK. That that organization we're seven
years in, has been a complete disaster. We've seen the

(31:29):
second IKAK commissioner resign in the last week or two
under a cloud of controversy. We saw the first one
resign under a cloud of controversy. It has done nothing
but cause more problems. I don't think it's solved any
I don't know that you know any I don't think
anyone could stand here hand on heart and say that

(31:50):
the ikak in the Northern Territory has been a success.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
But so where where do we go though from here?
Because I mean the thing is, people do expect that
there is a body that any form of corruption or
any form of you know, a fraudulent behavior within the
public service or anything like that, people expect that it
can be referred somewhere. But if the EYECAK isn't working
in the way that it's intended, what do we do?

Speaker 5 (32:16):
Or leaf Forciera, when she was in opposition, said that
as the Chief Minister, she would fully fund the eye
caack to whatever resources that they need.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
And still get.

Speaker 6 (32:26):
So there was actually a decrease.

Speaker 5 (32:28):
In the funding and this year's for CLP's first budget
to the ostmat's.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Point that it's not really operating, it hadn't been anyway
in the way that it was intended. So I mean,
what do you do? Do you just keep but what
do you do? Just keep filling a leaky bucket? But
I'm asking you because you've just made the point saying
that you know that she's continuing to fund it, So
what do.

Speaker 6 (32:47):
You do She's they're funding it less than Yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Do you think you just keep do you think you
just keep filling that leaky bucket or do you think
that you need to look at doing things differently.

Speaker 5 (32:55):
We have said we will look at through the parliament
and I think if Nokiao's Chief Mane to have said
it as well, or a vision of the Kaka and
I think it's needed And to Matt's point, absolutely, and
we're talking about our job as parliamentarians is to make
the best laws for territori ands. So that is definitely
something I'm not sure what will be led by the
Sealp government. Perhaps Jared can answer that today, but we

(33:16):
will be very open in the Labor opposition to be
looking at that piece of.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Legisty reviewing it. Would you like to see it scrapped?

Speaker 5 (33:23):
Well, I can't comment on that because I don't know
what the floors are if we're going to be looking at.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
It need an eye cack, but it needs to be
pulled apart and put back together and.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
To be improved. The difficulty I think we were always
going to have with an eye cake in the Northern
Territory is there is not six degrees of separation in
the Northern Territory. There's one with absolutely you know everybody
knows everybody, So I tend to wonder whether it's a
you know, whether it is an idea that you have
a body that's outside of the Northern Territory that is

(33:54):
able to actually look into our issues here in the.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
Our review in the EICACK and it hasn't worked completely
agree with you. And there's a whole range of these
oversight bodies that are all working. Is four or five
of them? We need to review the whole lot to
work out. Look, you're right, is there an option of
going using a doing a deal with the New South Wales? Okay,
there's a whole range of things, but we're going to
do that. But right now, we've been in office for
about nine months. We've been focusing heavily on reducing crime,

(34:18):
rebuilding economy and that's what we've been doing and I
feel that it's been working. And it's been nine months
and we've had a big ship to turn around because
you're right, Labor completely stuffed the territory. There's no consequences.
People are doing what they want and there there is
a turnaround. Things are getting better because the labor government
completely failed, no consequences and everything was out of control.

(34:41):
The economy was a downhill spiral. We're fixing things one
thing at a time. We've been in there for nine months.
We're working on crime, we're rebuilding economy. We're kicking off Beaterloo.
We're trying to make sure the teritory.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
I like to get a pair of for eight years,
so you should have a pair, shouldn't you have them
for a while.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
The number of times I reckon I heard in Parliament
when you guys are in power, stop talking the territory down.
As things were burning outside Parliament's outside Parliament House, I reckon,
you've probably got your own glasses.

Speaker 6 (35:13):
Selena Dared saying things are getting better for crime. We've
just gone through a whole bunch of examples, particularly.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Absolutely as we used to go through with you guys
every week. All Right, we're going to take a very
quick break. You are listening to Mix one O four
nine is three sixty one. Thing I am very keen
to discuss next is the art gallery or what exactly
is it gonna be. You are listening to Mix one
O four nine's three sixty Now the Northern Territory Art

(35:40):
Gallery in Darwin, CBD. Well it's no longer going to
go ahead as planned, with the government instead doing an
EOI for that site. The COLP says the project, which
is blown out by more than one hundred million dollars,
was committed to under labor without a business case or
operational funding. The government's decay to do a public EOI

(36:01):
to identify the most cost effective and impactful use of
the building which is under construction. We've had some very
interesting suggestions.

Speaker 4 (36:09):
Okay, this is another labor stuff up. Essentially one hundred
million dollars over budget and more employe there's a business
cases going to cost between six and eight million dollars
a year to run. So that's six or eight million
dollars of taxpayers money every year it's open to run,
never ever budgeted for. So you imagine what you could
do with six right million dollars in relation into health
system or the police or the imagine what that can do.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
But no, you could start the Nightcliff police station exactly.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
So what we've done we need to make sure that
he's not going to be a burden any more of
a burden on the taxpayer. So we've gone out to
what can we use it for. We want something that's
going to be best bang for but to be able
to use this this building, and it's a really weird
design building too, I understand how it can be used
for because clearly using it as an art gallery is
just going to cost taxpayers money. Where we are broke.

(36:57):
We've got eleven billion dollars worth of debt out the
police systems, failing, the education system, the health system because
money is not being spent where it needs to be spent.
Yet they spend money on a one hundred million dollar
blowout as well. It's just a complete debarkle.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
There is a I mean, there's a great argument that
the Northern Territory needs to get less untied funding and
this is one of them, because how can you be
spending such an extraordinary amount of money on an art
gallery in the CBD when we have a very good
art gallery down here in Fanny Bay And people like

(37:31):
Robin and Alice Springs and Selena in Catherine Musk just
shake their heads at this sort of staff because you know,
we've we've got a twelve million dollar police station in
Nightcliffe as part of what ended up being like almost
a sixty five million dollar redevelopment that has no police
effectively we've got a at the moment, we've got this

(37:52):
crisis going on with private maternity services, and we've got
the Health Minister writing to the federal Health Minister saying,
please give us thirty five million dollars to upgrade maternity
services at the Royal dal And Hospital, when we have
a brand new maternity service at the Palmestan Hospital that
has never had a baby born in it. We've now

(38:12):
got an art gallery build it a cost of whatever
it is that's going to be empty. It's just an
absolute fascal situation. It does get the trucks of the
matter that you know, we sort of pork barrel these
white elephants and we don't budget for the fact of
how we're going to run them. Like you know, the
budget blowouts we've had previously with the Palmeston Hospital have

(38:34):
been in excess of sixty million dollars a year because
people said, let's build this thing, and they never said
how are we going to run it. It's the reason
we don't have police in the Nightcliff Police Station, and
that's the reason we now have an art gallery that's empty,
even though it's cost US one hundred million dollars to
build it's madness.

Speaker 4 (38:49):
It seems to be the previous government just ran by
media release and so we'll put on a program. We'll
do it and look at the bear and my overpass
one hundred million dollars overspend there. You know, I could
go on for ages about Spence. And that's why we're
in such a dive Bilin call situation is because the
Labor government completely just stuffed it. Our economy's gone downhill.
Crime was through the roof, people were leaving the territory

(39:11):
and that's what we got elected to try and do,
and it's going to have.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
To turn around.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
I live in a parallel universe in which we were
promised in art gallery nine years ago. We're yet to
see a sod.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
So if we can get that one moved.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
We have a shitty old hospital which doesn't enjoy any
sort of beautiful benefits or accommodation, and we get nothing
in our springs, and we got certainly got nothing under Labor.
We're hoping to get a bit more under the COLP
with a few ministers down there. But look, it's insane
and I have to ask the question, how many art

(39:48):
galleries does a town of one hundred and twenty five
thousand people need. I mean it should have been knocked
on the head before it even started. Look, we just
had a fun conversation in the break. It could be
the snazziest aldi Australia has, Katie.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Somebody told me a Lego museum and everybody was like, oh,
that sounds like a fantastic.

Speaker 6 (40:09):
Idea, Katie.

Speaker 5 (40:11):
This project was particularly championed by the Darwen Major Business Group,
so it was around local jobs, increasing local jobs.

Speaker 6 (40:17):
Don't try and pass the Jared, not passing the buck.
I'm just acknowledging you didn't plan for it.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
You stopped it up.

Speaker 6 (40:26):
So Katie.

Speaker 5 (40:27):
Yes, Jared's still acting like we're in Parliament and you
can just be as rude as possible. So no, you're
just being rude. So darn Major Business Group champion this
based on jobs, trying to reinvigorate the CBD. You know,
there's a few other projects that have happened, as many
people would know in the top end to try and
improve the Darwin City. This was part of the Darwen
citi's deal, so federal government, Anti government and Dawn City

(40:50):
Council again that in reinvigorating the city but also creating
other opportunities, for jobs, for the economy, for tourism opportunities.
You know, we've got these amazing tourism opportunities with the
big cruise ships that come in and literally a walk
up from the darn waterfront and dispeed any of that.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
But the thing that I always sort of wonder, and
I know that we had this discussion when the Palmeston
Hospital was being built, for example, is it is like,
it's fantastic to have a new hospital, it's fantastic to
have an art gallery. It's fantastic to have these new things.
But if we don't actually have the budget to be
able to operate them, it then becomes, you know, quite
the burden on territorians. And I suppose I feel like

(41:31):
for quite some time we've sort of been going, all right, well,
let's build it and they will come. But we're building
it and they're not, you know, because we're still dealing
with all the other issues that we've got here in
the Northern Territory, and we're still trying to you know,
to get through all the other crap that we're you know,
that we're trying to deal with. But we're spending one
hundred million dollars additional on a museum and art gallery,

(41:52):
like it's just you know, it's weird.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
Yeah, in my view, the focus was just clearly wrong.
You know, we're focusing on trying to reduce the I'm
trying to rebuild the economy and restore our lifestyle. That's
what we're trying to do. And everything we're doing, all
this uses made a base on those topics. We're building
one hundred and forty million dollar art gallery when we've
already got one just down the road. We don't no
one's going to come to the Northern Territory and buy
fine art.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
I've heard a lot about the first and a little
bit about the second of those. What are you doing
though about the lifestyle issue, because I haven't heard the
government allow and announce a lot around that third pillar.

Speaker 4 (42:25):
Well, lifestyle is the first thing to do is get
the crime under control, because you can't have a good
lifestyle if you're going to get robbed and murdered and
broken into. So we're working on that. The economy is
about getting the gas happening, because again, no point having
a great lifestyle if you can't afford it. And the
last style is for me, were hunting reserves are getting bigger.
We've put made hard again bigger. We're making fishing better.

(42:46):
We've got the fishing grain. But if fish well, there's
a lot of people who do yeah across the Northern Territory,
and we're just making the charritory a better place to live.

Speaker 6 (42:54):
So I don't thank you.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
People in Darwin. Realize how lucky you are. So beautiful
up here. This is a beautiful city. You have everything
you need and more. Okay, you've got an increasing crime problem.
It's nowhere near as bad as probably anywhere else in
the Northern Territory, and I'm not trying to minimize it.

(43:17):
But you are so lucky. Your expectations are so high,
and you're used to getting exactly what you want, and
I think it's probably time that that be changed. Jared
readjusted that all territorians get to benefit from the taxpayer
dollar and we all get the beautiful amenities that you've
got up here. I'm not saying that it should be

(43:38):
any less here, but appreciate what you've got.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
So now it's probably not a good time to say
what people were suggesting. They want the museum and aren't
gallery to be Somebody had suggested a remand center next
door to the course. Somebody had suggested a lego museum.
Somebody had suggested an indoor athletics track. Somebody else had
told us yesterday a police station to match the night

(44:01):
Cliff one with nobody inside.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
You just put the sign up now, really it'd be
exactly the same.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
There's there's a lot of suggestions for what it could be.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
I don't know if a serious note, what it needs
to be is best bang for buck. We need to
make sure that the taxpayers money is not getting wasted
as we move forward. Do we need to use it
in a some sort of area or some sort of
design for where we get some money?

Speaker 5 (44:24):
Like a huge concern that we've got the Deputy Chief
Minister with Jared Mayley, who's gone out to the public.
The SEOPA government's gone out to the public because they
literally don't have an economic vision for the territory. Darwin
which has half and Palmerston has half the territory's population
and they cannot put their finger on any type of
investment to grow the economy.

Speaker 6 (44:43):
They don't have any type of economy.

Speaker 4 (44:46):
What about the gas what about the Beterloo?

Speaker 1 (44:48):
What did labor do for that, Jared, for the.

Speaker 5 (44:53):
Last eight years, but you never acknowledged a separate You
will now get to.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
Sit in between you two in a mo It's time.
I'm gonna have to take a very quick break though.
Well the hour has flown by joining us this morning.
A big thanks to Selena Hubo, the Opposition leader.

Speaker 5 (45:07):
Thank you, Thank you, Katie, and I hope everyone has
a wonderful weekend when it rolls around.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Jared Mainlee, the Deputy Chief Minister, thank you for your
time this morning.

Speaker 4 (45:15):
A quick shout out to the Fred's By show this weekend.
If you want in the area, come on down.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Good stuff. Robin Lamley, the Speaker of the Northern Territories
Legislative Assembly, thank you. I hope it's lovely and cool
back in Alice Springs. I'm sure it will be. And
Matt Cunningham from Sky News, thank you for your time
this morning. Mate.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Thanks Katie. Think we need to take the show on
the road to Alice Springs.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Saturday and Catherine, yeah, they would laugh that and maybe
even you know, somewhere else along the way we'll wait
and say yeah we could go out to that'll be
good fun. Thank you all so very much. For your time,