The Week That Was - 24th October 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, it's going to be a busy one this morning.
In the studio with us for the week that was,
we have got the Minister for Lands Planning and Environment,
Josh Bergoing.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good morning morning, Katy, Good morning to your listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Good to have you here from Central Australia.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Sunny Central.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
I bet it's warm there at the moment as well.
And the Opposition leader Selena Yubo, good morning.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
To you, Good morning to you, Katie.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
And warming Catherine today forty one Yeah down there, yeah exactly.
And from the NT News, the head of News, Gary
ship Way, good morning to you morning, Katy.

Speaker 4 (00:36):
I'm looking at the math of Australia today and it's
totally red.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yes, everyone, it's very warm, no doubt about that. Well,
I tell you what, people may be getting a bit
hot under the collar in Parliament as well. Yesterday we
know that the Speaker has accepted a matter of privilege
concerning the Member for Nightcliff. The Member for Nightcliff's been
referred to the Privileges Committee for the alleged misuse of
her taxpayer funded electorate office for electioneering, which the Government

(01:05):
says is a clear breach of member entitlements. Now the
Privileges Committee is going to investigate and determine the appropriate
course of action regarding this alleged serious breach of public trust.
So Steve Edgington saying that who is the Leader of
Government Business, saying the Member for Nightcliff has been absent
from Parliament all afternoon yesterday, failing to represent her electorate

(01:29):
and instead appearing to choose an anti Greens Party event
over her duty to represent the people that she was
elected to serve. Now, I do have a statement from
Jonathan Parry from the Greens which I will just read
out for you very quickly, and he is indeed the
Northern Territory Greens convener. He has said that the Member

(01:51):
for Nightcliff was traveling into state for a family matter
and was not at the event in question. Advice received
prior to the event indication that it was within acceptable
uses of the Electorate office, and we've sought to clarify this. Now,
I guess my first question is if she was interstate
or whether she was at this event, or whether she
was interstate, did she seek lee from the parliament? Does

(02:14):
anybody know?

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, well, no leave was sought yesterday, Katie. But I
think I just want to also really reiterate to your
listeners out there. The rules are really clear. So when
you go past, whether it be my electorate office, Selena,
or anyone else's across the Northern Territory, there's no CLP
or Labor stickers on the front. You're a member representing
your electorate, the people that put you there, and that's
really important. So what's happened here is we've now got

(02:36):
a Greens member of Parliament that essentially the Greens have
been advertising this event at or electorate office and they're
using it to basically recruit more people to the party.
It just does not pass.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
You're allowed to have meetings so in your electoral office
that are party political. I mean, I'm sure that Labor
and CLP members have like branch meetings at do you
have branch meetings that you're elected?

Speaker 2 (02:58):
I certainly don't. And this is the thing it's there
to conduct basically your work as an elected member. So
I'm not sure what other members do, Katie, but it's
really clear to me, and it's really clear to other
members that I've spoken to, that you just don't use
it for party political use.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
I think that's a fair call. I mean to be
really blunt about it. I think Territorians are pissed off
with politicians misusing money, misusing their privileges in all sorts
of ways. But what I will question is, you know,
in all the time that I've been doing this show,
I can't actually remember somebody being referred to parliamentary privileges
over the last decade. Gary, I don't know. You've been

(03:35):
around maybe a bit longer than me, do you.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
I think there's been cases where people have been referred
to privileges, But I guess in this case, you know,
you can't turn your electued office into political office. Like
the Labor Party has its headquarters, SILPI has its headquarters,
and that's where you convene your meeting. And clearly in
this invitation to people to go to that elected office,
it refers to, you know, come along and get involved

(04:00):
with the Greens. So you know, it appears to me
that that's not the appropriate intent.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Of that office. I think it's definitely dodgy. But if
she's then interstate, I mean, has she still crossed the line?
I don't know what do you think of its? Selena?

Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, okay, I have to be careful because I actually
sit on privileges.

Speaker 5 (04:20):
I won't talk about the manner obviously, I'll be part
of the committee that refirst. I won't talk about that,
but I do know Cat was in Parliament yesterday. She
was there for the morning prayers, which is kind of
the mandated time. She was there for the half the day.
If you're going to miss a day of Parliament, that's
when you usually seek lee. We've seen in the past
when people have missed the morning session but have been

(04:41):
back for question time the second half. They haven't sought
lee for the morning and vice versa, when they've been
there in the morning but they don't leave for the afternoon,
and that's happened for members of all sides of Parliament.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
I get it right, like I do this job. I
love my job, but I can't tell you the number
of things that I've had to miss because I'm doing
my job and it's a big responsibility. Selena, I know
for you, I'm sure as a mum you've missed a
heck of a lot being in Parliament and not missing
those sitting days because you're doing your job. Now. I
don't know what the situation is here with Cat McNamara

(05:12):
or exactly what's going on. But what I will say
is that there is only a certain number of days
that Parliament sits every single year. It is the expectation
of those in the electorate that people are in Parliament
unless there is a really serious reason why you're not there,
and if you're not then generally you would seek that
leave to not be there. So we'll put in a

(05:33):
request to have her on the show on Monday. I'm
very keen to speak to her and find out exactly
what's going on. But part of me still wonders whether
this is a bit of a distraction in some way
from the COLP. I'm not sure what distracting from what exactly,
but I just wonder whether it is a bit of
a distraction.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Well, this is something that came to like yesterday afternoon, Katie,
and as such the privilege was raised. And this isn't
just a matter for the CLP, this is a matter
for Parliament. So the process around this is that a
member writes to the Speaker raises a matter of privilege,
which then has to be accepted and obviously is invoted
on by the Parliament to be sent to the Privileges.
And you've hit the nail on the head. I absolutely
respect the Selena does have young kids. I've got young

(06:15):
kids as well. My first ever young kids disco or
I guess concert last night I missed because I was
in parliament. That breaks my heart, Katie. But at the
end of the day, this is the job you signed
up for and it's the job you do. So to
hear that people are flying elsewhere and not representing their
communities when parliament's sitting, yeah, it's just again. Yeah, I
think it goes through all.

Speaker 5 (06:34):
Yeah, if a Cat's going to come on the show
next week, then she should explained because you know, everybody
has lots of other personal things and you know, I
don't know what a situation is, but she can speak
for herself. And I think you know, if she's gone
away because the family members about to pass away, his die,
then I mean it's going to be I don't know either,
So that's why I'd be very hesitant to talk about

(06:54):
her in her own situation if we don't know it case.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
No matter what though, it doesn't distract from the aspect here.
If that if that electorate office has been used for
party matters, so we'll separate those key issue.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
The misuse of the office, whether that's out of ignorance.
I mean I noticed in that statement that was issued
by the Greens coordinator today which surprised me anyway, when
we come from the electorate office or the spokesperson, but
it's come from a political response is you know, you
got to make sure that when you're when you're using
that those those places that they're there for the right

(07:31):
in ten it may be ignorance. And having said all,
we were told that that's how we could use it.
The ounce thingers who told you that, you know, who
was the.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
Person that gave you that advice.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
Yeah, so it could be bad advice. It may you know,
it could be ignorance.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah. Look, I will say that I've actually been contacted
by people who live in that electorate over the last
couple of weeks to say that they're not happy that
the electoral office is also not opened on a Friday
only by appointment and also do not feel as though
the local member is as accessible is what the previous
local member was. Now, I don't live in the electorate,
so I can't speak for the people who live there,

(08:06):
but I do think that it is incredibly important when
you are being paid to do a job that you
make sure that you do it properly, you know, and
you make sure that you're not stepping outside the boundaries
of what is allowed and what's not allowed, particularly if
you're going to be throwing stones at others. And that
is definitely what we have seen earlier this week with

(08:27):
Kat macnamara, the Member for Nightcliff will censuring, attempting, I
should say to censure the Deputy Chief Minister for his
what she described as ongoing aggressive, threatening behavior in the chamber,
primarily to the women on the cross bench. Now, she'd
said Parliament is a workplace and every member has the
right to feel safe and to be safe in carrying

(08:50):
out their duties. No member should come to work expecting
to be bullied. As elected representatives, we are expected to
hold ourselves to the highest standard of conduct and the
Deputy Chief Minister's behavior is not only unparliamentary but fundamentally unacceptable. Now,
I don't know if she's referring to the comments by
Jared Mayley last week towards Justine Davis when she had

(09:14):
when she'd introduced to bill and there was discussion about
police officers and Jared did get very you know, he
was very very passionate about it. Now, I said on
the show yesterday, I in this studio at different times,
I've had very very passionate discussions well with all of you, really,
and at times voices are raised. At times you might

(09:36):
say something and you think, oh, geez, I might have
gone a bit far there. But do I want to
see our politicians not show that passion?

Speaker 4 (09:43):
No?

Speaker 1 (09:43):
I don't. And I know it's a fine line, right,
I know that there's a very fine line. But you know,
I've seen over the last fifteen years twenty years of
Parliament since I worked as a staffer, and also you know,
working in this job, I've seen some woeful behavior. And
I've got to tell you what I saw last week.
Doesn't he come close to some of the worst of it?

Speaker 4 (10:02):
Yeah? I think you know, I did actually see that
clip of Jared Mayley on one I think was the
ABC around a podcast and it was referred to in
that and look, he was clearly upset and angry, and yeah,
I've never seen him like that, But I do get
I do know that his father was a very distinguished
police officer, so maybe that's where it came from. Because

(10:23):
it was a police debate, so that's where that passion
probably surface from. But the end of the day, I
mean we've seen pollye removed from Parliament in question time.
I mean chance he was asked to leave for twenty
four hours and he was speaking to Maury clear booth
me at that time. And it is a it can

(10:44):
be an aggressive pit absolutely. And you know, one of
my Kevin Norton, who many people probably remember, he used
to describe us as the best show in town for
free and it is because you know, there's entertainment plus
in question time, So it is I I was disappointed
to see that that censure was rased, particularly because the

(11:04):
Speaker didn't feel at the time that the jure Mayley's
behavior was inappropriate. And speaker controls Parliament.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, well, and unlike the rest of us, as one
of our listeners pointed out yesterday, you know there's actually
an independent person standing like in there as a speaker,
able to call people out when they've done the wrong thing.
Now that listener had said that they felt it was
disrespectful towards the speaker then to to you know, to
have that motion, you know, I don't know how they feel.
I'm not in there. I don't know how they feel

(11:34):
or exactly what's going through anyone's head when they're in there,
but I tell you what I remember under well, even
over the last few years, the number of times that
I heard Leah get called Leah the liar, And you
know that might not like you might get used to it,
but you sort of go, well, that's a form of
bullying if you do that unrelentingly for a number of years,
or you know some of the comments towards under the
formac ELP. I believe if I remember correctly John L.

(11:58):
Frank saying that he wanted to meet a slap Natasha Files.
You know, There's been a lot that's gone on, so
I'm not excusing it, but I do think that you know,
if you step in there, you've got to accept that
there is going to be a level of passion when
people speak that you've got to be prepared for.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
I think Katie, we spoke about it earlier this week.

Speaker 5 (12:16):
You know, the conversation around debate and healthy debate and
when it becomes unhealthy and no one can ever speak
for anybody else, and how they feel, particularly in the
chamber because it is such a unique environment with very
privilege and on and to have a role where we
represent fellow territory and so in terms of there are
those those heated discussion or passionate discussion, I think that

(12:37):
is good for the territory and it's good that local
members are showing that they're passionate and interested in issues
and topics. When there are sensitivities, it can be quite
emotional and it can become quite frustrating as well, and
I've seen it all the whole spectrum Katie, my nine
years as a member. And I think that there are
different mechanisms in the Parliament because it's not a normal workplace,

(12:58):
right like you would have a HR department that you
would go to, because if you're having any kind of
conversation the level that we have in the chamber in
any other workplace, then there are strict processes that are
there for people's occupational health and safety when it comes
to that way they interact with your colleagues.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Parliament's very different and I think everyone gets it.

Speaker 5 (13:19):
And those of us who are elected, we're in the
fish bowl, right so this is just another mechanism.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
This is another.

Speaker 5 (13:24):
Process which obviously kat McNamara has felt that she needed
to pursue in terms of the formal processes, because there
are some processes that you can do within the Parliament,
but there's also those standing orders, those sessional orders that
we are guided by in the Parliament day to day.
So she's used one of those processes of the parliament.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
So this hit a nerve for me, Katie, on a
lot of different levels. So let's go through what happened
on that day. You had Labor, the Greens and the
Member for Johnson target the Member for Nelson with questions
all question time, which is absolutely fine. They're allowed to,
but they were trying to work him up to get
him towards this cension. Now again, I've been in the
parliament where I've said things in parliament and then been
intimidated outside of parliament. Later that day, nine pm, I'm

(14:07):
walking home from a long day, just drop me laundry
off of Parliament and people are having a crack at me.
So you want to talk about feeling safe in the workplace,
come and have a chat to me, because I've been
through it. But on a more broad level, just talking
more broadly about everything that you've spoken about today. Yes,
Gary spoke about the fact that Jared's old man was
a copper. Mild Man was a copper for a long time. Absolutely,
it is a place for robust debate, and that robust debate.

(14:30):
I tell you what, if you want to hear some
of the things that were being said about me last
night in Parliament, there's plenty of nasty things. But at
the end of the day you're in there, you put
forward your side of the story, your side of the debate,
and then your cop what comes back, because at the
end of the day it is a contest of ideals.
So I think we do need to really start to
understand when you step into that place, it's a place
of debate. There's going to be plenty of things thrown across.

(14:52):
You've got the umpire which is a speaker, which decides
what can be said and what can't be said, and
we all get on with representing our people to the
best of our ability.

Speaker 5 (14:59):
And there are those orders and standing orders that guy.
The process is that any member, not just an independent
or crossbench or an opposition member or a governmentber, any
single member of Parliament can pursue their processes through the Parliament.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
That's what is for Well, look all this on a
week that yesterday, of course, that major overhaul of integrity
bodies in the Northern Territory will the legislation promising to
rebuild faith in the systems and signals a turning point,
the government says for how integrity is upheld now Leofanocchiaro
obviously introducing the Integrity and Ethics Commissioner Bill in Parliament.

(15:35):
That legislation establishing the new Integrity and Ethics Commissioner the IEC,
and implements the key recommendations of the recent McClintock highly
report in full. I mean, what do we make of this?

Speaker 2 (15:48):
It does mark a real turning point, Katie, and I
think if we had Matt Cunningham in the office today
be saying thank god because for so well. I won't
paraphrase Matt, but I'll tell you what the amount of
times we've been speaking about the Eyekak on the show
in the past, and not in a positive way. So
we know that the public, unfortunately many people have lost
trust in that ikak. We need to rebuild that trust

(16:09):
in that institution and that this marks the start of that.
We've got the report back from the McClintock Hillary Report
with the we recommend we're implementing the recommendations in for
we're not cherry picking what we are aren't going to do.
So we've got this report from these highly regarded people.
We're going in. Yeah, we haven't thrown at the bin
like the Gunner government. So we're going through and we're

(16:30):
making sure that we're implementing this. We're implementing these things.
So this is important, Katie. It's an important part of
returning transparency and confidence in the public to these organizations.
The IEC it's going to be an independent statutory authority
and we look forward to working with the Parliament to
hopefully see this become a reality.

Speaker 5 (16:50):
And very interestingly, Katie, when we're talking about integrity and ethics,
this bill was not sent to the Legislative Scrutiny Committee.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
This is something that our Labor opposition welcomes. We looked
at the report. We think it's very sensible.

Speaker 5 (17:02):
Particularly we're looking at the model it's been closely aligned
to and based on, which is the Australian Capital Territories
Human Rights Commission, and we think that, you know, they're
quite progressive in that space. And I think it's a
good thing that the Northern Territory has got those four
processes of those commissions that are going to be integrated.
I think that's a very you know, good move in

(17:24):
terms of what's in the report which I've looked at,
but in terms of just the basic process again of Parliament,
like you would think Integrity and Ethics Commission is a
good story for the territory, a good bill to have
extra insight, extra community feedback, extra constructive analysis on this
particular legislation because it will produce, I'm assuming if it's

(17:47):
all past and goes to plan for the government, a
new commission in the Northern Territory and a new process
and a new way of doing business when it comes
to integrity and ethics. But to not send it to
Scrutiny Committee, it is just like this, this is an
easy win for the government. This is actually hand plated,
gold plated win that the government could lap it up.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
I'll tell you what, Katie, you're you're looking at a
minister that sent more things to the Scrutiny Committee than
any other minister have even a labor in the coalition.
They complain, they say, how can you sending this through?
This has been a recommended report that's come back from
too highly regarded people. When we're accepting the recommendations in full,
are we then going to sit it to a parliamentary
climent that's going to give us other recommendations that we need.

(18:27):
We trust in the process that's been gone through. We
trust in the recommendations.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Very person. Jerry Wood has just messaged through and said
scrutiny committee. Jerry says scrutiny committees are only used when
the government wants to window dress. It's just window dressing,
its poor behavior.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Well, we have it, Katie, as opposed to the Labor
government that didn't have the scrutiney committee. So we've brought
it back. It's their legislation goes through.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Harry, what are you reckon?

Speaker 4 (18:54):
Well, I just want to say on behalf of Matt
Cunningham and thank god.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
That might be listening.

Speaker 4 (18:59):
And but look, I think there's a valid question about
it not going to the scrutiny committee. But look it
will be scrutinized no matter what, so there will be
plenty of opportunity going forward for criticism to be made
if criticism deemed necessary. I think it's a great thing
that we've got this new way forward and then let's

(19:20):
see how it works. There will be a lot of
questions over the new head, how does that person manage
this massive body of work, and then how do the
staff helps the staffing arrangements. Are the investigators going to
be shared responsibilities? Which probably will and that makes a
bit of sense too because they're all investigators as they are,
so why not take them across the board. But look,

(19:42):
only time will tell how and will be thoroughly scrutinized,
I would imagine by all members.

Speaker 5 (19:49):
Yeah, just a shame though, Katie, because this would be
a really opportunity time to bring the community along for
that really important journey and be able to provide that
insight and to be able to provide the communit be
backing for this really important change that we're you know,
we have the opportunity to now support that will come
in for the November sittings if it's all ready by then.

(20:09):
So I just feel like being able to bring the
community into this change because there has been those frustrations
with the IK and some of our other independent statutory
bodies to be able to have that input, but perhaps
for people who've gone through those processes to be able
to highlight some of the strengths all the weaknesses of
those processes. Unfortunately they've had to go through those commissions.
I think this is just an opportunity loss for that

(20:30):
community feedback.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
I look forward to hearing the communities concerns through their
local neglected representatives.

Speaker 3 (20:35):
Code too scared to go and do the work.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Never too scared, Never too scared.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
All right, let's take a quick break. You are listening
to mix on O four nine's three sixty eighty is
the week that was. If you've just joined us in
this studio this morning, we've got Josh Bergo and Selina
Yubo and Gary Shipway. Now the NT News this morning
reporting that Japanese gas giant Inpex has reported an oil
spill at its Darwin facility, just after admitting to under

(21:02):
calculating toxic emissions by thirteen four hundred percent. Now, according
to the NT Environment Department, thirty six thousand liters of
heating medium fluids spilt well split sorry from one of
the liquefied natural gas processing units at the Ichthe's facility
on Darwin Harbor on October twelve, now due to heavy

(21:24):
rainfall about one hundred about one thousand liters, I should
say of that oil went into a storm water drain
and beyond the facility fence towards mangroves bordering the harbor.
Department officers investigated and confirmed that IMPECTS was using absorbent
pads and sucker trucks near the mangroves to clean up
that spell. Water samples returned on Monday found no contamination.

(21:46):
But you know this follows that earlier story. There's a
major liquefied national you know, natural gas processing facility had
a far greater amount of cancer causing pollutant for the
past seven years than initial reported. I mean, I know
that we will be people listening this morning that feel
quite concerned about this. You know, we all love our
Darwin Harbor, we all love our territory, we love fishing,

(22:09):
we love our way of life, and we want to
make sure or that you know, there is no damage
too well, not only not only to our environment, but
also to us as individuals.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Absolutely, And I'll touch on the oil spill first, Katie,
because that's something that's obviously been raised this morning. That
was occurred on a Sunday evening around seven pm. The
very next morning impacts notified the NTEPA, so all the
right processes are going through here in regards to the spill.
At lunchtime the very next day, we had authorized offices

(22:42):
from the Departments of Lands Planning and Environment, and as
the Environment minister, it's really important that we make sure
that this is occurring. They conducted inspections to investigate and
as you rightly said, we then had sucker trucks pads
that are soaking all this up to ensure that there
wasn't any impact of the environment. There were then sample
results taken from the site and from the nearby waterways,
and sample results were confirmed on the twenty second, so

(23:05):
two days ago, with no trace of contamination in the
water sample. So absolutely no one wants to see anything
ever negative happen in regards to these sites. When something
does go wrong, it's important that they report it, that
there's then an action from the NTEPA, and that we
clean it up or the impacts clean it up as
quickly as we can, and then we check there's no

(23:25):
damage to the environment.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
That's all work trust though in that system, and trust
may be in inpects actually, you know, notifying the authorities
and the authority is doing the job that is required.
Should something like this happen, their trust may be a
little bit broken. Following on from the earlier story in
the week.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Oh look, Katie, the timing couldn't be worse, let's be
honest about it. But the reality is, through all these things,
as soon as they have been made aware, they've then
gone to the NTEPA, who's the statutory authority, the Northern
Territory Environment Protection Authority, to ensure that it's reported on
and in regards to the earlier commentary around the emissions
they met on Wednesday, Impacts and the ANTEPA. ANTEPA have

(24:06):
revised all those emissions data. They've put it all online.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
And it's more than we thought.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Oh absolutely, But again it's really important for anyone that
is concerned. The NAPA are working closely with the Chief
Health Officer to make sure that that independently assesses any
health implications in regards to everything that's been reported and
any findings.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
That could you know, So do we know at the
moment whether there are any potential health implications for territory.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
At this point in time. We don't have any evidence
to suggest that, and it's really important that we stress
that public health is a top priority. We want to
ensure that all the right mechanisms are worked through and
at this point in time, we don't have any evidence
to suggest otherwise, and it's really important that those people,
the ANTEPA, the Chief Health Officer are all working together
on this. That's the way it should occur.

Speaker 4 (24:56):
So what has Impacts done to implement anything further so
to prevent monitoring any better monitoring systems. So what are
the commitments that they undertaken to improve the way they'd
been doing.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, absolutely, Garran. I think that's probably something that people
don't understand. There are a number of air monitoring stations
around the site as well as around Darwin, which were
monitored to ensure that they basically measure the levels of
pollution in the air. Okay, so on days where there's
big bushfires, I quite literally get a report saying on
this day when above the recommended levels because there was

(25:30):
a massive bushfire. But for the majority of the rest
of the year they all stay under those safe levels,
which is really important. So these are being monitored. Impacts
are undertaking to increase the level of monitoring because it's
really important that we continue to have that community confidence
that this facility can continue to operate. As we all
spoke about earlier, it creates those jobs, but we don't

(25:51):
want it to have a negative impact on our environment.
And absolutely I can understand why people would be concerned,
but it's really important that these authorities, the Environmental Protecttion
Authority is there to make sure that they then deal
with impacts and say, hey, look, you guys need to
come up to a higher standard because we need to
make sure that everyone is confident in the way in
which you'll managing your sit.

Speaker 4 (26:12):
Do you think Impacts has been more forthcoming than Santos was,
because I would think that those people who are you know,
supporters of gas would probably feel pretty let down given
what's happened with Santos now this, but it seems what
you've just described that they've been pretty.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, and it is important Gary. You're right to, I
guess distinguish it to you. You've had freedom of information
requests that have then led to the divulging of the
information in regards to Santos. You've had impacts themselves here
go to the NTEPO and say, hey, we've put our
hands up, we've been calculating this wrong. We need to
make sure we get this right and go out to
the community with what the actual figures are that's all occurred,

(26:51):
and now moving forward, we need to really ensure that
people have confidence in what is being reported and the
levels and the air quality around the site.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
I mean, Selena, do you think we can actually trust
this process? So, I know you must be feeling frustrated
as well the former government and the current government that
we've got an underreporting situation here. So you guys are
out sort of sprooking these projects to the public and
then something like this happens. I'd be frustrated by it.
I'd be pretty bloody annoyed.

Speaker 5 (27:15):
Yeah, and I mean this is appreciate the update from Josh,
but you know, we've had two instances in the last
week that I think, you know, if you'd front foot
of the media and provided what you've said, you know,
the confidence around that process, the communication I heard you know,
the environment centers speaking on radio this morning around is
there a commitment from the government to provide that information.

(27:36):
I think that's the biggest thing here is when people
don't know, it's quite frightening. And you alluded to that too,
Katie in your comment earlier that if you've heard this
and you're thinking, am I safe? Is my family safe?
Is the environment safe? Is the you know, the fish
that I catch when I go out fishing safe? So
I think if there's a commitment from the COLP government
to provide what you've just done there, Josh, very simply

(27:57):
a roving update, whether it's a daily update, weekly update,
you know, a monthly update. In multiple ways of communications.
It could be a community forum or several community forums.
A lot of people are on social media now. If
it's a couple of little clips or links about this
is go to this website and get an update of
exactly what Gary said, knowing what steps and measures have
been followed or how to get that information. I think

(28:20):
that will provide the level of confidence that you're talking about.
But this is the first time, you know, you've spoken
publicly this week about a really important issue, and you know,
I commend you for doing it today, but it would
have been helpful to do it till or three days ago.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Well, yeah, on that I will touch I spoke in
Parliament about.

Speaker 5 (28:34):
This, and we have everyone listens to Parliament, although we
think they do not everyone absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
We've had the ANTEPA providing updates on their website in
regards to so I hear what you're saying, and I
guess this is that balance of you know, if it
was a court matter, we wouldn't speak in front of
the courts. It's an environmental protection matter and we're letting
the ANTIEPA do their statutory authority in making sure they're
the ones leading it.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Look, we might have to take a really quick break.
There's a lot to cover off on this morning. You are,
Liz listening two three sixty. It is the week that was.
There has been a lot to cover off this week
when it comes to politics and the news, and if
you've just joined us in the studio, of course we've
got Josh burgoyin Selena Ubo and Gary Shipway, but making
news right around the world. Earlier in the week we

(29:17):
learned that the Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi and US President
Donald Trump, well they had signed a landmark agreement on
critical minerals and rare earths. Now it is going to
see a pipeline of priority projects delivered with financial commitments
also announced by the Australian government US one hundred million
dollars in equity investment has been committed to the Arrifura

(29:40):
Nolan's project in the NT Now. I know the headline
after that meeting, a lot of it was about Kevin
Rudd being dismissed by the President. However, this is actually
really good news for the Northern Territory, or it certainly
appears to be.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
It's huge, Katie. This is a game change. Ever since
I was a young electrician analys we've been here about
our refuwer resources and previous government and our government. We've
been working for a long time to try to have
this realized. It's been you know, to put this in perspective.
We've got the Granite gold mine just out of Alice Springs.
I know lots of locals that work out there. This
is people are talking two billion dollars. I've heard about

(30:16):
one point six billion mentioned a number of times. In
the construction six hundred people will come to build it.
We'll then have the ongoing workforce. This is a huge
game changer for the territory. We have the resources, we
have the minerals. We can be shift shipping this to
all over the world to ensure that we're building things
like the electric cars. We've heard about its applications in

(30:37):
defense and in the Northern Territory, we can reap the benefits.
And from my little town of Alice Springs, I tell
you what, we're all very excited. We just want to
see it realized. And from all the things I've been
hearing is that they needed this additional money tipped in
to get them over the line, because over so long
we've been talking about it, the costs of construction have
gone up by two hundred million. So this one hundred
million US which will get them up to that two

(30:57):
hundred two hundred and fifty million Aussie that they need,
will hopefully mean they can go to FID final investment decision.
There's already been ground broken, so if you go out there,
there's a bit of a mining camp and they're starting
to do work on the ground. But we really now
want to see the construction of this acide.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
So give us some perspective. I mean, to those out
there listening this morning, how far away from Alice is
that mine? And how many jobs are we potentially talking?

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, one hundred and thirty kilometers north of Alice. So
the little place called Aileron, we're basically going to see
six hundred jobs whilst it's under construction. The best part
about this mine is that they're going to be refining
the rare earth before they ship them off. So a
lot of people are very familiar where we dig the
raw rock out of the earth of them send it
over to China. They're actually going to have a refinery
on site. And that's really the value add where we're

(31:41):
not just sending a bit of dirt somewhere, We're sending
a liquid where yeah exactly. So that's really going to
add to the amount of jobs that are then needed
when it's up and running, and it will really benefit
the Northern territories.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Have we got any idea of the life span of
that mine? I know that's a big ask until you
sort of get in there and you get stuck into it.
But as a girl that grew up in So, you
want to know, yes.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
For three years.

Speaker 4 (32:02):
So this is this is magnificentness for our springs. I
mean I followed this right trans beginning as well like
everyone here has, and it's it's a truly exciting event
for our springs. The fly on that goes with a
mining camp of mine one hundred only one hundred and
thirty six k's out of town. It's going to be
great for our springs and it's going to be great
for the territory and it will also be great for Australia.

(32:23):
And it's this announcement is one of the few exciting
announcements that all of Australia's got excited about it. And
there's now maps about where everyone's going to get start
doing rare and but you know this, this mine in
the territory is so well advanced that you know, it's
just it's great news for our economy.

Speaker 5 (32:41):
It is really exciting, Katie, and you know been as
Josh's acknowledged, you know, being aware of this project from
when formerly when labors in government. So awesome to see
an international deal signed with the USA, so we can
see that economic growth for particularly Central Australia. But we've
got some amazing territory businesses. We've got some awesome average

(33:02):
businesses here in the territory who are going to be
able to now continue to shape and format and pipeline
their workforce, pipeline the supply and demand chain.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
This is going to be fantastic.

Speaker 5 (33:12):
For the Northern Territory in terms of the growth and
stimulation of our economy, but particularly Central Australia, who we know,
you know, trying to look for those those projects of
the future. And I think it's really great that not
just Central Australia will be put on a map in
that sense, but Australia is recognized as being able to
provide that quality product and having that big partner of
the USA, you know, complement US.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
I think that's going to go a long way.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
What do I reckon? Is Kevin Rod going to be
able to stay on as the ambassador? Is he gone?
After those comments.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
They're talking about Kevin twenty twenty seven, Katie, they're talking
he might make a resurgence now you know, there's no
such thing as bad news. He's got his name back
in the media. He might be coming back to Australia,
might go go and try to challenge Albough. You never know.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
I think I think he'd make a nice embassimbassador for Germany.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Or somewhere else. You reckon, Oh, tell me what it's interesting,
that's for sure. Hey, I want to go back to
another issue. Well here in the Northern Territory and its
backbencher travel. Now this made headlines a little earlier in
the week, when the ABC reported that they had revealed
through an ABC freedom of information request that essentially Northern

(34:23):
Territory government backbenches have racked up thousands of dollars of
travel courts as assistant ministers, a position that the Colp
previously labeled as one of my favorite words scammon. Now
a document shows three of the government's eight backbenches charged
taxpayers are combined eleven thousand dollars to travel as an
assistant minister, a title not officially recognized by the NT Parliament.

(34:46):
Now further detail was provided as well in that ABC
report where You've got a situation where you had one
of those one of those assistant ministers, Coda Patel go
to the Beloo on two occasions, as I understand it,
you had Ollie Carlson head to Nullen Boy I think
on two occasions. Then you had Lori Zeo representing one

(35:07):
of the ministers at an event I believe in Alice Springs.
I mean, it could be argued that all of the
all of that travel is valid. But I spoke to
Jerry Wood about it on the show. I think it
was yesterday, and we'd sort of, you know, discussed the
fact that appointing people assistant ministers will some would argue
that it's a bit of window dressing. You know, it's
not really an actual job. I know that Steve Edgington,

(35:30):
I believe, had stood up in Parliament though, and said
that it was a situation where people can get that experience.
I mean, Selena, you've been one of those assistant ministers
over the years. Is it a real job, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (35:40):
Katie, I was assistant minister when I was a backbencher
for two years in the first term, and you know,
I have a very large electure representing the people of.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
Varnum and I travel a lot for that.

Speaker 5 (35:50):
And then I also used my assistant minister role to
identify opportunities where I could learn and where I could grow,
where hopefully I could add value. And at the time
I think I had Aboriginal affairs and also education, so
you know, a former teacher working with the Education minister
at the time. Really used those opportunities to grow my
understanding not just of government because I'd worked in government.

(36:12):
I have you know, never been governing in government, but
grow my understanding of the processes, but try and add
value and then to learn it almost used it like
a training ground, like an apprenticeship, and looks like it
paid off because two years of doing that. Then I
became a minister in twenty eighteen, and I think they
are important roles. They aren't recognized, that's true, they aren't
recognized by the Parliament, and I think you.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Don't get paid extra to be in a system.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
Now, no you don't.

Speaker 5 (36:37):
But if you're representing a minister, you take on some
of their full responsibilities. You're obviously backed by the department
and the skills and the experts, etc. But earlier this year, Katie,
we did ask Jered Mayley as the Mining minister. You know,
there was some discrepancies in the travel around it's through
the estimates process some travel. There was two thousand dollars
that was not accounted for and travel allowance, and then

(36:59):
later on it came out that there were photos of
you know, Coder in his assistant minister role, like well
it was that money then used to cover Coder's travel
and we still we still don't know the answer any
times later, so there does need to be transparency around that.
I know there's been figures and dollars attached to the
backbench or Assistant Minister travel under the CLP government, there's

(37:19):
you know, articles that were on in similar to when
Labor was in government, and it again, you know, if
we're talking about clearing up you know, public trust and
confidence in those processes, that people are doing their job
and not just using a little excursion to travel around
the territory and have a great time and not value
adding for taxpayers and the territorians. Then maybe there should

(37:39):
be some guidelines around those roles and that could be
something that could be worked on, perhaps in a bipartisan
way by the major parties. I'm not sure if the
CLP is willing to do that. But again, the frustration,
and I understand it more and more because I'm hearing
it more and more. When people don't understand decisions that
are made by a government, whichever government, but they're not articulated,
they're not communicated, and then they're not actually explained, I

(38:01):
think that becomes the frustration and people don't understand why
they might not agree.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
But you've got to.

Speaker 5 (38:06):
Have that conversation with the general public and say we're
doing this because of X, and this is the outcome
and it's why. But it's I think that frustration of
the communication when people know money is being spent when
the otherns said they're.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
Not going to be frivolous with money.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
The thing I always liked was when Jerry Wood went
away on a trip. There was an extensive broad afterwards, Katie,
And why was there?

Speaker 5 (38:30):
Now?

Speaker 1 (38:30):
I understand that, you know, when you're in government it
can get very busy, but people also want to make
sure that politicians are not spending money like it's monopoly money.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Absolutely, Katie, we're making sure that one's No one's saying
that the travel wasn't conducted in accordance with the rules,
because it.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
Was, but there are no rules around system.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
You let to have a good chat and this is
the important thing you just spoke about, the important work
you did. When you're in assistant minister, you've got members.
Assistant ministers are traveling out to places like Nullan Boy.
That place over the next few years is vitally important.
The mine is going to be closing down it there.
We need to ensure that there is a pathway so
they can transition from a mining town to possibly having

(39:08):
tourism to possibly having other proponents come in there and
work with the community. So we don't have an entire team.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Bench shouldn't be in lieu of a minister minister case.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Absolutely, thank you, and we've had the Chief Minister travel
out there because it is a vitally important part, assisted
by the assistant ministers. So it is it's important that
we are putting this all out. We know that there's
people that travel around. We get criticized everything we do.
We're either not out enough or we're out too much.
I tell you what we're always happens when you're in government.

(39:39):
Certainly we cop it on the TK, but it's important
for people to understand this is why we get out
and we do what we do to listen to everyone
right across the territory. That's what we're all about, and
we're making sure we're working for territorianes every day of
the week.

Speaker 4 (39:50):
I think with assistant ministers and if you look at
what's happening all around Australia and it's no different Special envoys.
Luke Goslingk's a special envoy. He was in Western Australia
this week for a major announcement. But that was that's work,
that's legitimate work. He was doing it and he wouldn't
have to pay his own way. He wouldn't have to
pay his own accommodation. He gets a living lout. So
that's fair enough. The way things are done in politics

(40:11):
all around Australia today, everyone gets a ganzy, all right,
So the assistant ministers, assistant ministers in every other state
and whether or not there, it's what it's done is
taking work off the load of the minister who can't
be everywhere. So you say, okay, everyone gets a ganzy,
so you go out there and you'll you'll represent me
in this role at this particular occasion, as what happened
with Luke down in West Australia this week. So and Marian,

(40:34):
you know it's changed. So let's just change it and
acknowledge that fact that system ministers especial envoys are real.
Now put the mechanisms in place.

Speaker 5 (40:45):
We're talking about being open and transparent with the community.
The Attorney General just yesterday introduced a bill that's going
to be debated in November which takes away which bans
the opportunity for people to put a lodge and foy.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
Freedom of information around got to.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Come in in regards to that's that's.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Right, Well is it I heard this reported earlier this morning,
and I certainly had concerns.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
We had to look back at the transcript. So what
is it, Josh, Why was she talking about astant?

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Might'st be really clear, really clear. For a long time, Cadie,
it's been understood that ministerial to ministerial correspondence has always
been non FOI. This is literally stuff that's going but
between the fifth floor amongst ministers. Over a long period
of time, you've had a mob like the ECNT, you've
had activists trying to get their hands on this. It's
led to court action, which is then costing the government's
hundreds of thousands dollars to defend. We're clearing up to

(41:32):
make it very clear, black and white that min to
min correspondence is not foiable. That's important correspondence that happens
between ministers on that fifth floor, and we don't want
people getting their hands on this stuff because it quite
literally is a bit like me talking to a constituent.
That's not foiable because that's that's in confidence and the
same thing happens between min and mint.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
So bring the assistant ministers.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
That's not my understanding, Selena. This is this is correspondence
that is on that fifth floor.

Speaker 5 (41:58):
So I'd be very worried if assistant ministers who have
no legal standing, Katie, who do not swear an oath
or take an affirmation to the Crown to be a
minister or assistant minister, if they are included in this
new legislation. So I'll be looking forward to my brief
from the Attorney General and her office, so making sure
that that is not included.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
All right, we might have to take a very quick break. Please,
time for us to wrap up. There's always a lot
to discuss in here on a Friday morning. Thank you
so very much for your time. Josh Burgoyne, Minister for
a number of portfolios including well planning and environment.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Thank you, Katie. I'm looking forward to getting home and
seeing the family this weekend and head down to the
Todd Moore markets on Sunday, so thank you for having us.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah, good stuff. It'll be nice and warm, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Yeah, it's cool down a little bit, but I think
it'll be getting hot again.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Real soon, no doubt. Selena Hubo, thank you so much
for your time.

Speaker 5 (42:46):
The leader of the Opposition, Thank you, Katie and everyone
in Catherine.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
Please stay cool, but particularly look.

Speaker 5 (42:51):
After your neighbors, especially if you've got elderly neighbors, because
the Bureau of Meteorology has issued that heat wave across
the territory and we want to make sure that our
senior territories are also looked up.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, look after each other. Gary ship Way, head of
News at the NT News. Lovely to have you in
the studio.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
You have pleasure to be here. I know it's been
hot and I'm looking forward to a lux at tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
And then a swim hopefully good stuff.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Well, you have been listening to the week that was