The Week That Was - 29th August 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is time for the week that was, and in
the studio today we have indeed got the Minister for Youth,
Seniors and Equality, Jensen Charles.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good morning to you, Good morning, good morning to your listeners.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Lovely to have you on the show.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
We've also got the Independent Member for Johnson, Justine Davis.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Good morning to you.

Speaker 4 (00:18):
Hey, Katie, Hey everyone.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
Good to have you on the show.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
And on the line in Catherine, We've got the opposition
leader Selena Yubo.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Good morning to you, Selena, Good morning Katie. Great to
have you all on the show.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Now, before we get into the issues of the week,
I do just want to mention the fact that the
defense yesterday finished its closing arguments in the Matt Wright
criminal trial.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
After three weeks of evidence.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Barrister David Edwardson Casey told jurors his clients did not
intend to mislead the investigation into a fatal twenty twenty
two chopper crash, nor did he intend to pervert the
course of justice. Now, as we know, jurors are going
to deliberate until the verdicts are reached on all three counts.
The judge has previously flagged that they could sit through

(01:03):
the weekend. Now, if there are any updates throughout the show,
we will certainly let everyone know. But I did just
want to let our listeners know that that is where
things are at at the moment. But for us here
in the studio and for you Selena in Catherine, there
is a lot to discuss when it comes to the
political movements and the current affairs. From the week and

(01:26):
this week, we've spent quite a bit of time really
reflecting on the colp's time in office as they reach.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Their one year milestone.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Now, the Chief Minister talked us through well what she
feels have been some of the highlights. She says legislative
changes and investment into police corrections and the courts are
having an impact on crime, with the Northern Territory recording
six hundred and five fewer victims of crime in the
first half of twenty twenty five. That's a four point
seven percent decrease compared to when Labor was in power. However,

(01:57):
the Opposition leader joined us on the show in the
week to say it is becoming increasingly clear that Leofanocchiiro
isn't capable of meeting the promises she made with the
numbers when it comes to well, well, adult and child
sexual assault, serious assault, assaults on frontline workers, and domestic

(02:17):
violence also increasing. Now, Selena, I might go to you first,
Why do you feel as though the government is failing
in this crime space despite the fact that there has
been that overall decrease.

Speaker 5 (02:31):
Yeah, Katie, and not to quote leofanochi Aro too much
in her own words, but I remember her saying, oh,
we'll know when we've made the community safe based on
what people say, and people are not saying that the
community is safer. That's right. Across the Northern Territory. There
needs to be the continued, sustained and long term efforts
around reducing crime. We all know that there's no quick fix.

(02:52):
We all know that. But I think it's quite disrespectful
for the Colp government, particularly the Chief Minister, to be
patting themselves on the back when there's a lot more
work to do and people are not feeling safe. And
that's what they promised territory as they would do, is
to make our community safer.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, there is no doubt that there's still work to
be done. I did catch up with the Northern Territory
Police Will Strike Force Trident a little bit earlier in
the week. They did say to me that yes, there
is still you know, there is still obviously work that
needs to be done across the board, but they have
said that there is a trend downwards when it comes
to some of the property offending, particularly that we had

(03:29):
seen over recent months and years. We also spoke a
little bit about some of the changes when it comes
to bail, and previously I'd spoken to Trident at different
times where they had told me of situations where they
had arrested offenders only to have those offenders out, you know,

(03:50):
within the same week in some cases on the same day.
I mean, Jinsen, I know that obviously the government's sprooking
the I just said I've made and saying that it
has had an impact.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
Easy.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
I mean, from what you hear in your electrode, are
there still issues so when it comes to crime.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
So what I'm hearing from my electrot is about like
we never said about like we fixed all the problem.
So we are walking through the problems and we are
significantly making progress on that. And I think the bail that,
as you kind of like recently referenced say clearly says
about like they were like almost forty four percent of
increase in declining of the bail That clearly shows and
we know that the prison numbers has gone up. And

(04:29):
what I'm hearing from my community from Wagaman, Vulagi, Marra
and Annula is mainly around like I think they have
definitely seen the reduction in the frequency. It's not like
that they are seeing that every night or every day.
And even like I've been going through all the Facebook
community groups recently as well, we can clearly see about
like the numbers has reduced the number of occurrences as reduced.

(04:50):
But at the same time, we've got like so much
work to do and we will keep continuing to do
that work.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Justine, what do you make of it all? I mean,
there's always sort of I think the thing is with stats,
or I feel like the thing is with stats is
you can sort of you know, you can always cherry
pick the ones that you think look good. You can
cherry pick the ones that look bad as well, But
it does come down to a lot of the time
how people actually feel out on the street.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Absolutely, and I think one of the things to say
about the stats that we're using now, which the police
may have talked to you about is as we know,
the police have changed the way that they actually record stats,
so what we're comparing is not actually the same data.
It's kind of comparing apples and oranges. But even given that,
if we look at the stats, as you just said before, yes,
some things have gone down. Some things like serious assaults,

(05:34):
cribes against the person have gone up, things that are
really worrying and what people are saying to me in
my community. In fact, someone used a really interesting phrase
the other day where they said, yeah, there's the stats
on paper, but then there's what he called the felt statistics,
like how we feel. And he said, none of us
feel safer. And people are saying that to me across
the board in my electorate and beyond. I'm at Rappacrep

(05:56):
Markets every Sunday and last Sunday, I'd ask people just
to let me know how how they think things are
going and to write it down. And so I got
all this feedback from people, and the overwhelming feedback was
that people felt like we are now in a community
that feels to them less safe, more divided. They're afraid,
they're afraid for their future, they're afraid for their kids.

(06:18):
They don't feel like the issues that actually you know,
as Selena just said and as I've heard the CLPS,
we know we have to deal with the root causes
of crime. We know there's are complex issues. Everyone understands that.
The community are not dumb. They know that's what needs
to happen, but they don't see it happening. They see
that there's six hundred more people in prison, and they
see a government boasting about that, and that doesn't make

(06:40):
them feel good. It doesn't make them feel safer.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
It's really interesting because you know, I hear what you're saying,
and I think it's really good that you've gone and
asked for that feedback from the community as well. That's
the most important thing in my eyes, to be actually
checking in with your community and.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
Finding out what they think.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
I guess for us, you know, we have a lot
of people when they're messaging in or when they're calling
in that yes, there is still issues of crime, there's
no doubt about that. But some of the measures they
do feel are a step in the right direction. I've
said it before, I'll say it again. You know, we
know that some of the steps that are being taken,

(07:16):
people have real issue with in different ways. Others feel
that those measures need to be taken in order for
us to see, you know, a level of safety or
I guess, a level of behavior that's acceptable on the streets,
because for a long time we were seeing some really
bad behavior almost daily. You know, I'd step outside and

(07:40):
there'd be people fighting on the street. I didn't feel
overly safe to go across the road to go and
get a coffee. I had someone try to steal my
phone out of my hand while I was out getting
a coffee.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
I didn't feel safe. I do feel like I can
do that again.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
I think that's again, like that's what we are hearing
from the community, because I've got like a lot of
seniors they actually start to to go back to the
Castrina Square because for a long time they federal like
I think that we had targeted. But now they get
the confidence back, and I think again, like that's the
community feeling as well. So another I think still that
are different views and the thing we won't be able
to get across the lane like in twelve months.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
And one area where they're suffering is Tenant Creek. At
the moment, we spoke to the mayor of Tenant Creek yesterday.
I mean, I'll just take you through a couple of
the incidents in Tenant Creek. So earlier this week, the
Northern Territory Police were calling for information following an aggravated
burglary that had occurred on Tuesday night. Now police received
a report that a group of offenders had unlawfully entered

(08:38):
it entered a house and assaulted two occupants. The police
located too thirty one year old female victims, both with
injuries to their heads and backs.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
It's alleged that a.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Group of up to twenty people had forced their way
into that residence and physically assaulted both victims before stealing
their mobile phones and two puppies and fleeing the same Now,
that is not an isolated incident. There was another incident
then on Wednesday, where a group of up to eight
females allegedly approached a forty four year old woman sitting

(09:11):
in a parked car at a petrol station, stood in
front of the car so that she couldn't drive away.
They then opened the door, tried to take the keys
from the ignition, one of those females stealing the woman's
bag from the back seat and then we also know
that it was also reported an eighty one year old
woman's home was broken into the group of youths allegedly

(09:33):
filming and later well driving around in the car which
they stole from her house. The mayor said to us
on the show that they need an increased police presence immediately.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
They've got a real, real.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Issue on their hands at the moment and they need help.
I mean, Jensen, as a minister of the current government,
is your cabinet or is the government looking at actually
amping up the number of requesting to the police, that
they amp up the volume of police that they've got
their intendant Creek to try and get a hold on
what's going on.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
So I think over the last twelve months we were
able to increase the number of polices, but again like
we are nowhere near to what we wanted as well,
so we are continued to work with them, and again,
like I think when it comes to the victims, we
work with the victims and we want to make sure,
like we need to reduce the.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
Namer in this case.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
You know they're saying they need more policy in that community.
They're struggling. If you've got twenty people getting into a
house allegedly and you know, assaulting those two female victims.
That is incredibly frightening stuff.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Again, like totally agree, Like that shouldn't happen at all,
and I think people should be feeling safe in their
own houses. And again like that's what when we are
changing the legislation and giving the message back to the
community if you are going to engage in any kind
of this.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Activity, you can see why at the moment people are saying, well,
hang on a second, is the legislation working If this
kind of if these kind of incidents is still happening,
and it's really cold comfort to people in Tenant Creek,
then if they've got these kinds of things unfolding and
you're saying or we're changing the legislation, they'd be thinking,
I don't actually care, we want this behavi you stop
before it gets to that point.

Speaker 4 (11:06):
And I think that, I mean, and if you look,
I had a quick look at the stats and in
Tenant Creek, the crime stats have gone up everywhere across
the board. So and I don't know where it's up
to now, but I did see earlier in the year
that the mayor had reached out to the government and said,
can you come and talk to yourselves these please help us,
and at that point had said, I haven't got any response.
So absolutely these things shouldn't happen, and the same for

(11:30):
anyone in our community as you were describing for yourself, Katie,
these things shouldn't happen. I mean, one thing I want
to say about that is that there are ways that
we could be addressing crime that would work far more effectively.
I don't think anyone saying we don't need to take
action on community safety. If people don't feel safe, and
if people aren't safe, we absolutely have to do something
about that. And we need to make sure that people

(11:51):
who are committing crimes are held accountable for it in
a way that's meaningful and actually creates change. And we
can look at models. For example, Glasgow and Baltimore, two
companies which were like crime capitals violent crime off the charts,
took a different approach to dealing with it, and their
crimes rates dropped incredibly dramatically, really fast, and are continuing

(12:14):
to drop their models that actually work. They're not models
that say let's lock up six hundred more people and
then see our stats going up. That's just not working.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
I have to disagree with that status because the stats
clearly showing about like the robbery has came down, the
commercial breaking has came down, multi vehicle theft.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
Escaping Tenant Creek in Greek but not not assault, not
sexual offenses, not harm or.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
At the same time, things still happening. We acknowledge that,
but at the same time we are walking through and
we agree, like I think we need more policies.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Sounds that we absolutely do. Like in Tenant Creek, it
sounds like they absolutely do. I mean, Selena, what is
your take not, you know, on the situation.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
In Tenant Creek.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
By the sounds of it, they are you know, they're
calling out for help right now.

Speaker 5 (12:57):
Yeah, Katie, it's really quite distressing to hear what's happened
and Intendate Creek, and particularly because it is such a
tightly knit community and region. So the town of Tendant
Creek obviously lots more than Catherine where I am. But
you know, everyone hurts when there is something that they
hear or experience, especially unfortunately you know, individually or with

(13:17):
family and colleagues, etc. When it comes to what's happened
in those really horrific examples of crime in Tenant Creek,
and I think when we have, off the top of
my head, Katie, the highest per capita of police Intendate
Creek will have to obviously ask the government lists and
might have some insight when the police Intendate Creek and
the Barkley are asking for that extra help. I mean

(13:39):
that there has to be a real problem there and
I think that in order to be able to support
our police. You know, one of the promises that the
CLP made to police was the retention bonus and now
they're being denied that. So how are we going to
expect our police to do this extra work to continue
to keep our community safe as best as they can
to adjust to all of these new laws and some
of them as we know gone through within the last

(14:01):
couple of weeks in the parliament. How do we expect
our police to keep up if we're not even paying
them or retaining them in the way that they deserve.
And I think that really needs to be looked at.
If we're going to continue to grow the police, the
police need to be treated with the respect that they deserve.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Look, before we go to.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
A break, keen to just get everybody's take on the
last twelve months in Parliament.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
I mean, for all of.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
You, it's twelve months since the election, obviously focusing very
heavily on crime and the colp's dealing of the issue
with crime. But Justine, for you, I mean, what would
you say have been the you know, maybe the biggest wins,
the biggest learning experiences for you over the past twelve
months of stepping into your role.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
It's been a massive learning curve, that's for sure. I mean,
I think the obviously the kind of relentless legislative framework
of the government is something that we've been dealing with.
I think one of my really main concerns I guess
I've taken aways from it is the way that our

(15:02):
democracy is being managed. I feel like there's been, in
my view, a misuse of urgency. Urgency provisions are there for,
you know, natural disasters, not for pushing things through that
actually require proper examination. We're elected to make good law.
We're not elected to just say oh, yes, thank you
very much. My community does not think that that provides

(15:25):
them with good representation. If I'm going in having to
vote on a law that I've seen three hours before,
and we've seen that over and over again with this government,
I've heard the government say they've got a mandate so
they can do whatever they want. Their mandate, like, the
mandate of every single person in that chamber is to
make good law for every single person in the Northern Territory.
And forty eight percent of the territory voted for the COLP.

(15:48):
But their job is to represent one hundred percent of people.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Any big surprises for you, like, you know, on a
maybe not so serious scale, has it been an interesting
twelve months going in and going wow, this is how
things happen.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
You're not allowed to have any food in the chamber,
and a lot there are long, long, long, long hours.
As I said to one of the schools the other day,
there's a lot of homework, so you.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
Know, there's a lot.

Speaker 4 (16:15):
And look, I think there's and people often comment on this.
I think there's a level of behavior in the Chamber
that is often unacceptable, but there's also I think there's
also a willingness and an openness for people to address that.
I mean really, like before I was in Parliament, you know,
I kind of thought, well, imagine if our elected representatives

(16:35):
got together in Parliament, had dialogue based on good information
to make good law for the Northern Territory. How come
we don't do that and we don't do it. I
think I think we can get there, But I think
I've been I've been both. I haven't been surprised because
I knew that's what it was going to be. Like,
I remain hopeful that we can make it better.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, what about you, Jinson? What's it been like this
last twelve months.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
It's been a huge runing for me as being a
public servant for nearly ten or more than ten years
here in territory and then coming across to government. But again,
like I would say, like I think I'm really proud
of like being that a team that we are keeping
on the focus on the three per list, the reducing crime,
rebuilding economy and restoring lifestyle because we have been distracted
away from our key messages and I think we want

(17:19):
to stay on to that, and I think I'm so
proud to work with my colleagues to make sure, like
I think we are doing everything possible to reach there.
But at the same time, again, like I think we
won't be able to make everyone happy. We are completely
aware of that, but we need to make sure that
we just to go on to our goals and we
are not going to pushed away from that based on
whatever happening.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Outside, Selena.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Before I go to you, Jerry Woods just text through
controversially Justin and he said you can always sneak lollies in.

Speaker 4 (17:49):
I have to say, Jerry, Jerry has been a great
advisor to me, and Jerry, I'll put that in one
of my one of my goodness right advice from you.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
Selena. What's it been like you?

Speaker 1 (18:00):
I mean, like, in all honesty for you, it must
be different, you know, going from from being in government
for the last day years to sort of going into
opposition and you know, changing you attacked.

Speaker 5 (18:11):
I guess, yeah, it has been, and I guess that's
sort of one of the things that I expressed when
people ask me, you know, how am I going with
the changes from government to opposition? You know, we're just
on a year now. But my silver lining, KDI, is
that I'm still learning, so even though I've been a
member of Parliament now for just on nine years, that
I have the ability to still learn in that role

(18:32):
and within the parliament too. I mean there's been changes
to processes, which Justine's spoken about as well, so having
to adjust and to change and to do that extra
homework so we can do things like scrutinize the laws
of the Northern Territory properly. So it's kept us on
our toes in that sense. That's probably a positive and
a negative all in one. But one of the wins

(18:52):
that I feel like I've had in the first twelve
months is being able to bring together the domestic violence
by part of agreement that was in October last year
with the government, our opposition and the Independence all agreed
to having a bipartisan approach to reducing domestic violence in
the Northern Territory. Unfortunately, that's gone quiet. So that's something

(19:16):
we're going to continue to champion for because we know
that that's going to make a huge difference in the
long run when it comes to community safety. But we
want to make sure that we remind the government, and
I know we've got the support with the Independence because
we all speak about it quite frequently in the Parliament,
that we need to continue that journey to make the
territory safer.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
Well, we are going to take a really quick break.
You are listening to Mix one O, four nines three sixty.
It is the week that was you are listening to
Mix one O four nines three sixty. It is the
week that was if you've just joined us in the
studio this morning. We've got the Independence member for Johnston,
Justine Davis, We've got Jinsen Charles, and we have got
on the line Selena.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yubo as well.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Now, I just want to quickly discuss the fact that
me any of the local council positions are of course
still up in the air, with the position of mayor
in Alice Springs, Lichfield and Darwin still too close to call. Now,
one area where we do seem to have a pretty
clear winner is Palmerston, incumbent Athena Pasco Bell Well out
in front on fifty point four percent of the votes

(20:19):
with forty eight of the total votes counted. A little
earlier in the week, Combat Scarless and Peter Styles obviously
continuing to be in a very tight race in Darwin's
for Darwin's Lord mayoral position, con sitting on twenty point
seven percent of the votes, Peter on twenty two point eight.
I tell you it's been like it's been a really

(20:40):
interesting campaign and we've spoken about this over the last
few weeks on the week that was. But the thing
that's been interesting, and I guess interesting might not even
be the right word. It's been pretty grubby, to put
it mildly. We spoke to the electoral Commissioner a little
bit earlier in the week after I'd been sent photos
of flyers at somebody had apparently, you know, doocted basically

(21:03):
to change that person's preferences from what their actual preferences
were in their how to vote cards. Like, I just
think we've got to we have to have a look
at the legislation here, so this kind of thing cannot fly.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
It's like, it's it's terrible.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Why would anyone want to put their hand up to
be slanted and to have people making up outrageous things
about you online and then you know, not playing a
fair race.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
Yeah, and think, I mean a lot of people that
a lot of the talk around this election is exactly
as you said, that it's been really dirty, like people
have really which is not what we want. I mean,
I think it's wonderful that we have so many people
putting up their hand. That's what democracy is A lot about.
Local government is so important, it's what affects everyone's daily lives.
So that's a great thing. And it's the other thing

(21:48):
I want to say is that it's been fantastic to
see some really wonderful young candidates putting up their hand
for this election, and I'm really hopeful that we'll see
a makeup in our local councils.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
That gives you some hope in the next generation coming up.
I reckon when you see those young ones putting their
hands up.

Speaker 4 (22:05):
I heard two young people talk, both of you from
Darwin in their early twenties saying, look, our friends are
all leaving. We want to make a day and where
young people want to stay. You know that that's what
we want to do. How wonderful. So I think there's
some there's some great things, but I think the level
of behavior and the attacks on people, the core flute attacks,
I mean, I've talked about this on your shop for

(22:26):
I think cor flutes are ridiculous. They are an incredible
waste of resources and money and it's not something that
in general we should I don't think we should be
supporting or promoting. But what we saw around corforates in
this election was really shameful.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
So the thing is, like, I because I totally get
what you're saying even about the core flutes and even
about sort of some of the advertising paraphernalia or not advertising,
but you know, the leaflets and things like that. But
then I go, what happens if you go to a
full online campaign and then we've seen some of what's
gone on online and it's been disgusting. You know, people
have just been writing absolute miss true it's about other

(23:04):
people and slandering other people and often not putting their
name to it either, which I think if you're going
to write something, at least put your name to it,
have the guts to put your name to it.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
But yeah, I just I find it really gross.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
And speaking of young people like then I go, well,
what hope do our young ones have coming up to
be able to decipher what's real news, what's fake news,
what's absolute bs?

Speaker 4 (23:28):
Absolutely. The other thing that I think is really notable
in this election that everyone and probably said to you too,
is it was really hard to actually get information so
apart from seeing posters of people if you wanted to
know anything, and I think people expected more from the
Council and the Electoral Commission in terms of being able
to provide information. There was there was a case where

(23:49):
you know, they couldn't they couldn't hand out, and that
was you know, then reverse. But I think I think
there's something really serious to look at there for local
councils to look at. How do people find out about
who's running, get information all those kinds of things, because
it's really people need to know how things work and
who is putting out the hand to make that what

(24:09):
they stand for that right I might take on.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
This is about like every candidate needs to be respect
for each other, and again, like the focus should be
about like what you can offer and what you can do,
not about like what others are doing. So I think
that's what I always believe in. You just need to
communicate with your constituents about like what your plan is.
And I tried to stay away from any conversation about,
like even my last election, about the opposition position. It's

(24:32):
not my business. It's about like I can attack their
policies or anything, but.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Not totally agree with you. I mean, Selena, what you've
been involved in several you know, elections over the year,
over the years, not council elections, but if you've ever
seen anything quite like it.

Speaker 5 (24:48):
Yeah, Katie, this has been such an interesting and not
always for a good reason election to see with our
local government, because local government is so important, and I
absolutely agree with some of the comments made by b
part Metroc colleagues just a moment ago that you know,
it takes a lot of guts, takes a lot of
bravery for someone to put their hand up to say
they want to serve their community, which are a tier

(25:09):
of government that is local, territory or federal, and people
put their hand up because they want to make a difference. Ultimately,
I truly still believe that sometimes I may disagree with
the way that they're doing that, but I truly believe
that people are putting their hand up it's to make
a difference to their community and to make sure that
they can be a strong voice for their community where
sometimes you know, people don't necessarily feel like they have

(25:30):
the strong voice. So to see what's happened in the
local government elections across the territory, but particularly highlighting unfortunately
what we know has been happening in Darwin and Palmerston
with councilors or candidates for council positions. It's been quite confronting,
I think, and I agree with your comments to Katie
around how do we support not just the current generation

(25:52):
but the future generation of elected members to be resilient
when they are putting their hand up to make a
difference in their community, but they or hearing or feeling
personal abuse, and particularly when it's been these accusations mistruths,
but for many people, blatant lies and why would anyone
want to put their hand up for any tier of

(26:13):
government if that's what they're going to expect. And just
also around the online as well. I think there's huge
campaigns right across Australia about online and cyber bullying and
to reduce that. And we're always focused on our kids
and our young people, which is really really critical to
ensure that they have resilience and that they can deal
with online bullying and that we can stamp out online bullying.

(26:34):
But unfortunately, through the process that we've seen highlighted in
the terriach around local government election, we're seeing all of
this from adults. So how do adults model positive behavior
when it comes to online engagement. Yes, you can have disagreements,
but how do you maintain respect and how do you
make sure I agree with you Katie that your name
is on something that you're going to say about someone

(26:55):
and that you take accountability, whether it's online or if
it's verbally to somebody. And I think what we've seen
is people like to hide behind the keyboard. They're not
keyboard worries, they're keyboard coward.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think that's one
hundred percent spot on. You know, we've got to get
better with this stuff. And you know, we're trying to
educate children on what they should and shouldn't do online,
and then you've got people that are adults acting like
I can't even say a word that is probably appropriate
for on air, you know, and you just think, honestly, why,

(27:28):
you know what, Like I was raised, I was always
raised that you know, if you're trying to put down
your opposition, well you're not really you know, good enough yourself.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
You need to be. You've got to actually.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Be putting forward your own you know, your own reasons,
your own agenda, your own policies. I believe as a politician,
if you your whole agenda is putting down somebody else
and the individual rather than their policies, then you obviously
don't have a lot to stand for. But also you know,
the making sure that your name's actually to it as well.
If you want to have a cracket's body, will be

(28:00):
prepared to say it to their face if you see
them too, not just online.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
Now, I think, okay, I just want to say about that,
going back to what you were saying before about parliament,
I think that sometimes what we see from our elected
representatives is modeling behavior that we would not want to
see anywhere in the community. It is attacking individuals, it
is it is in ways that are totally inappropriate with language,
it's totally inappropriate, and people see that and it kind

(28:26):
of cracks this enabling environment. If it's okay to behave
like that in there, you know, why can't we do
it out here? And so I think, you know I
said before that guy, I always feel hopeful, but I
think that the community has a right to say to
their elected representatives, hey guys, behave better.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah we expect better.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah. Look, we're going to take a quick break. You
are listening to Mix one oh four ninees three sixty.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
It is the week that was.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
You are listening to Mix one oh four ninees three sixty.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
It is the week that was.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
In the studio this morning Jins and Charles and Justine Davis,
and we have also got Selena you both on the line. Now,
I do want to talk about the OC spray rollout.
We know it's happening on Monday, and we've got a
group of twenty one organizations who've signed an open letter
condemning the anti government's law and order policies, including the

(29:15):
OC spray rollout. Now, victims of crime, Bishop Charles Gouci,
indigenous activists and others are among the are among those
signatories calling for the COLP to implement evidence based and
indigenous letter approaches to community safety.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
Now it is understood, well, I've read the letter.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
It does raise concerns about police public safety officers patrolling
public housing and transport, as you know, and being armed
obviously doing that. Now, look, there's a lot of discussion
about this, there has been about the rollout of OC spray.
We've spoken quite a bit about it on the show.
I guess, well, first of you know, what is everybody's

(30:01):
take on the open letter and on the roll out.
It's coming on Monday, It's going to be happening. I mean,
Jens and obviously are the cop feels that it is
a necessary step for people to feel safe.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, I think again, like I can say about like
my experience with during my campaign and afterwards as well,
there are a lot of people ask to me about
and I think I am someone who advocated for this
as well. Again, this is for the people who feel
they wanted to have an additional tool. It's not like
a mandatory that anyone can have it. And there are
clear guidelines and restrictions in place who can buy, who
can keep, and under what circumstances they can use as well.

(30:36):
And again, like when it comes to any problem, if
you're trying to make it against a race or anything else,
it's not a good way that we are trying to
open a discussion at all because we are not talking
about the problem or the topic. We are trying to
divert to something else. And this is nothing to do
with any race, This is nothing to do with anyone.
This is about like a tool that giving to individuals

(30:58):
who feel like a thing, they want something additional for
them to go out and then have their normal life.
And I got like an example of like an older
person probably in her seventies, working properly for the last
few years every day through Ulagi with an airhorn with her,
and I think she is someone who asked me during
the camera as well, is it something that you would consider?
Because she thinks like, I think that's something. It's kind

(31:20):
of like giving that additional confidence to her. And again
like there are many individuals. It's again like it's not
about like it's going to be misused by anyone. And
again like there are a lot of things in place,
and another thing is around like a thing. If someone
wants to do something, they've got like more gravity things
out there as well. It's alsis pray is kind of

(31:42):
like a very small tool, but it is.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
It is effectively still regarded as a prohibited or an
offensive weapon.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
I can't all have to go and double check that.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
But no matter what, if you use it, there will
be questions to answer obviously in terms of how you
use it, why you've used it.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
If you're legitimately.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Being attacked, then you know fair enough you'd have the
grounds to be able to use it.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
I mean, Justine, what do you think?

Speaker 4 (32:05):
Look, I think that And once again what I've heard
from people is that it's not They're not worried about
people who want to choose to go and buy it,
you know, as protecting themselves. They're worried about people misusing it.
They don't feel like it's going to make them more safe.
I know there's been lots and lots of talk about women.
I'm a woman who walks around at night and feels unsafe.
I would never have pepper spray, and many many women would.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
I'd have it if I was out early in the
morning or late at night.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Just in case.

Speaker 4 (32:33):
But do you know how to use it?

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Well, I'd make sure I educated myself on how to.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
Use How would you find it?

Speaker 1 (32:38):
I'd probably go online and watch like a you know,
see if there's like an online safety sort of way
to use it.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
Or I would also.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
When purchasing, I would ask the you know, the people
that I purchased it from as well.

Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yeah, and look, that's a really that's a really great
point because when we ask them, are you going to
be able to explain to people how to use it?
They're not. And we've heard, you know from the police union,
concerns about how people are going to actually use it,
the idea of other people having it, you know, and women.
I mean, one thing I want to say is that
this government has talked a lot about this is something
to help women feel safe. If they really cared about

(33:12):
women being safe, they would have implemented all the recommendations
of the coroner on DV. The idea that people can
get it, that they are a sort of these checks
in place about prohibited persons not being able to get it,
but they're not. They're in real time kind of.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
So do you find it interesting though, that you can
actually you require least checks to buy a crossbow or
a machete.

Speaker 5 (33:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:35):
That's pretty Nazi, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, So for me, I think to myself, if I'm
worried about things getting into the wrong hand, so I'm
actually more worried about.

Speaker 4 (33:43):
That, I don't want any more weapons in our community.
I can't see that making us safer. Ever, I think,
as I said earlier, I think there are alternative approaches
to dealing with community safety that we know will work better,
and we know we'll actually bring community together rather than
dividing it. I don't think that this is an issue.
I don't think we as Jenson just said, this is
an issue about race. And the other thing I want

(34:04):
to say is this letter, which is from you know,
a wide range of civil society organizations, from religious organizations,
health organizations, legal organizations like anglic Care, Catholic Care. These
are people that this government should be listening to. And
I heard you say earlier Jinsen, that you know we
can't make everyone happy. I've heard the government say over

(34:27):
and over again, we're not apologizing. I don't think anyone
wants the government to apologize. I don't think they want.
You know that your job is to make people happy,
your job is to make the community safe. I don't
think it's happening. I don't think this is going to
do it. I don't think that all these people have
signed on to this again. And I think I just
and I just want to say that the government's response

(34:49):
shouldn't be we don't want to listen to you, which
I have heard your government say over and over again
when people raise these issues. They should it should be okay,
what can we do better? Like why wouldn't you be
listening to experts in the community.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
This is a trial for twelve months, and I think
that are clear instructions on a board, like I think
what are going to be done? And there is noten
territory or the prayer, public information available for the people. Leave.
It's a copy oldest information there.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yep, Selena, I'll head across to Selena. I mean, how
are you feeling about the OC spray rollout? I guess
you and I have spoken on so many occasions, Selena,
we know, like you know, you and I have had
a bit of argi bargie as well over the last
twelve months about the government's plans and their changes when
it comes to dealing with some of the issues of
public safety and crime. I guess you know what I've

(35:38):
heard for a number of years is that people really
fed up with the way that labor was doing things.
Do we all feel that the way that the COLP
is doing things are entirely correct? Look, I don't know,
and time will tell, But what is your take, Selena?

Speaker 5 (35:52):
Yeah, Katie, and that's definitely a fair assessment over the
last twelve months when things have come up from the
government and of course what the community sentiment is. And
ultimately our job as opposition is to hold the government
to account, to ask those questions they're still unanswered, questions,
particularly around the point that Justine raised around what happens
if someone misuses OC spray, And I think that's the

(36:13):
big missing piece at the moment. You know, before this
rollout occurs just on Monday, as we all know that's
going to start on the first of September. So I
think the government just really needs to put together so
frequently ask questions and answers to try and give a
little bit of peace of mind to people who are
asking the same questions since the announcement of the trial.
And I think it speaks really big volumes to Katie

(36:35):
the twenty one organizations who have written this open letter.
A lot of the things that are in that letter
are think that we've said as a labor team, but
I think it gives a huge amount of weight and
volume when it comes from those different organizations who represent
a very diverse section of the Northern Territory community. And
I think the government does need to do its job

(36:57):
and respect those issues and concerns that have been rais
and provide some of those answers and provide some of
the forward planning that they're going to focus on around
community safety. And I think that's a really big frustration
at the moment, is that information and that click clarity
around the forward planning is really missing from the colp.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Just on the misuse, because I do think it's a
really valid question. But what I what I am just
I'm keen to find out and I do need to
double check this whether OC spray is regarded as an
offensive weapon or whether it's I'm just trying to check
with Crystal. But what I did check, or what I
did see or I noted this morning as well in

(37:35):
the NT news, is that the ant police arrested a
forty two year old man who allegedly tasered another man
during an altercation in Catherine.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
Now, obviously they're different types of you know.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
I don't know whether you'd use it, like whether a
taser is regarded as a weapon or what it's regarded as.
But essentially then the police have attended the victim, also
aged in his forties, had suffered a minor injury to
his chin and was known to the alleged defender. But
police arrested that person and charges are expected to be
laid for the use of that taser. So for me,

(38:10):
I read that and I thought, Okay, well, if we've
got a situation here where then somebody uses their OC
spray inappropriately, I would imagine it'll be a similar situation
or if they use it in a way that it's
it's not intended.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
It's katy for to make it clarity. So I'll just
inform a board, like I think, under what circumstances you
can use so defend themselves or another person, prevent unlawful
imprisonment imprisonment, protect property from unlawful damage or theft, prevent
or stop criminal trespass, remove a trespasser from land or premises.
And again, like it's using any kind of force as well,

(38:42):
so you need to use it like a reasonable force.
And that's if you're walking outside, if someone is attacking,
there is like a limit that you can you can
use exercise that force and the police will determine whether
it was an exercise excessive force or not. And it's
the judgment of the individual at that point if they
feel safe and if they feel targeted. And I think
that's so it used and I think the TISA, from
my understanding, I don't think it's illegal. That's way most

(39:04):
likely the is vegan charges.

Speaker 6 (39:06):
Well, look we will move along because there's quite a
one big thing about that that this lack of clarity
is exactly why Queensland, who is not known at the
moment for being they're certainly tough on crime.

Speaker 4 (39:17):
Said, we're not going to go ahead with OC spray
because we're concerned about exactly these issues, about the lack
of clarity about what might happen if it's misused, and
we don't have book for many years. Yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Look, we'll take a really quick break when we come back.
There's still a couple of things to discuss this morning.
We always run out of time. There's always no shortage
of things to discuss right here, I mix one O
four nine Before we wrap up this morning, though, I
do want to discuss the situation with our pharmacists. Now
we know that our pharmacists across the Northern Territory that
work within our public health system at our hospitals. They

(39:52):
were scheduled to commence industrial action last Friday. That action
was temporarily paused due to a last minute application made
by the Northern Territory government seeking to stop that action
through the Fair Work Commission. They did eventually take that
industrial action. Throughout this week, they are calling, you know, for.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Better pay.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Essentially, with staffing levels now reaching what they've described as
crisis point. Alice Springs Hospital pharmacy running at a fifty
percent vacancy rate, Royal Darwin and Palmerston regional thirty percent
vacancy rate. Catherine Hospital's pharmacy department is at a one
hundred percent vacancy rate. I mean, we spoke to the

(40:35):
Commissioner for Public Employment yesterday on the show. She said
that she feels a generous offer has been placed on
the table. Look, I don't know whether the offer is
going to be acceptable in the eyes of pharmacists, but
what I do know is we need pharmacists to be
there at our hospital, ready to help patients when.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
Required, absolutely, and I think they play an incredibly vital role.
We can't be going backwards in our health care provision
here in the Northern Territory. We know that there is,
you know, a national shortage of health care professionals, and
here in the NT for pharmacists, they're paid less than
they would be anywhere else, So why would people come

(41:15):
here and stay here? We need to be actually focusing
on that. And the other thing I just want to
say is that in terms of the industrial action they've taken,
they're taking action that absolutely still protects patients and still
provides patient care. But the impact of it on them
is that at the moment they're being docked paid. So
our pharmacists are working two hours every day for free,
and I just want to say to them, thank you

(41:36):
very much on behalf of the whole community that you're
continuing to work for free to make sure that people
get the medication they need.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah, I agree, I think you know, if they're prepared
to do that, they are fighting for their rights. They've
they said to me on the show, They've actually never
done this.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Before in their history.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
They've never done this in the Northern Territory before, so
it is obviously something that they feel really very passionately about.
I mean, so does the government just need to get
back to the table here with them.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
So we value the pharmacists and the pharmacist technician the
thing we want to work with them, and the OCP
Commissionary is working with them, and also the Minister for
Public Service as well. But what I need to say
is about like what led to this problem. So I'm
sure like I think you may be recalling about like
there was like a pay priest back in twenty twenty.
I believed for almost three years and all the professional
stream and the technical stream staff members across a public service.

(42:27):
They had like a pay brief for three years which
was done by the previous government and that led to
this problem. And I think that led the Northern Territory
is one of the least page jurisdictions.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Look, I get that, but it's up to you guys
now to fix it.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Absolutely no, I got it. So I think then when
the issues about like a think when the budget is
not repaired through almost four years and five years, and
I think if you want to go straight and increase,
and that's where the negotiation happens. And the thing we
know that there was issues with other negotiations and we
were able to get to a good outcome and we
are hoping that we will be able to resolve this
as well. But when it comes to negotiations, always back

(43:00):
and forth and the or c if he Commissioner is
taking the lead on.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
I mean, does it worry you though, Does it concern
you that in the Northern Territory at the moment, and
across a few different areas of health, it does feel
like we're going backwards. It does feel like we're in
a situation in a capital city of Australia in Darwin,
Like there are services that are being cut, that are
being changed that people do.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
Not want those changes.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
And you know, you can look back at those last
few years, but the fact is you guys are in now,
you've been in for a year, and people are saying,
hang on a sec we don't want these changes. We
want to make sure that we are operating like we're
a genuine capital city.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
I totally agree anything. We want to support the health
workers and again, like that's always takes us back to
our second pillar, which is the rebuilding the economy, and
that's what exactly we want to make sure like we
are in a better position and we got like better
revenue streams for the Northern Territory government, so that means
like we can support the public servants, we can provide
more support for police, South and everyone.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
It's all about priorities, isn't it, Jenson, Like you can
have one and a half million dollars to put into
the prison system, two million dollars for pharmacists to be
able to provide services to the whole territory. Like how
come that money is not there?

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Again? Like if you if you know about the it's
about like not the pharmacists. It's aboard like the professional stream,
which is not just a pharmacist.

Speaker 4 (44:18):
And I think we're going to have issues.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
We are working through a negotiation process. I can't preempt
any of those. And I think those.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
Question is priorities in government spending, like why is health
not a number one priority in government spending when locking
people up is.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Again like reducing crime is the number one pillar. And
I think that's effectation.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Health absolutely linked.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
I totally agree health profession and ameters states as well.
I completely agree what you're saying. But at the same time,
there are restrictions on what government can do, and we
are walking through a process and I think I'm hopeful
that we will be able to reach to that.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
I hope we're able to sooner rather than latest. Selena,
or'll let you have your say on these pharmacists before
we get ready to wrap up.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
I mean, what do we need to do here?

Speaker 5 (44:58):
Thanks Katie. I wish we had long to talk about this,
and I agree with Justine that health has to be
a huge priority, and we're unfortunately seeing that this is
not even on the CLP government's radar. And if we're
seeing our frontline health staff take extreme measures like industrial
action and particularly for our pharmacists. I didn't realize that
vacancy rate here in Catherine was one hundred percent. I

(45:18):
knew unfortunately it was high, Katie, but I've just heard
through you that it's one hundred percent. So I'll be
asking questions around that. My team will also. But in
terms of being able to make our community strong and
resilient and thrive, health has to be a priority for
any government, doesn't matter what politics you are. We are
seeing the government drop the ball on health. It took

(45:40):
Steve Endington, the Health Minister, seven months to contact the
federal government around health scope and the maternity services closing
at the Darwin private hospital. That is not good enough
in anyone's book, and the cop has to answer for that.
But when it comes to industrial action and paying our
pharmacists who deliver a quit service, particularly in a place

(46:01):
like Catherine, which is the hub of the Big Rivers region,
we need to see that ongoing work and respect for
those professionals. The cost of living is rising, sociould their pay.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Look, we are going to have to wrap up for
the morning. It has been another busy morning. Before we
do though, justin just really quickly the voluntary assistant die.
Today's the final day, isn't that people can put their
submissions in.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
Yeah, that's right. So by close of business today if
you've got a submission, just go to the website put
it in. I encourage everyone to let the committee who
are doing that inquiry know what you think about it.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
Well, that is it for us this morning.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
It is wonderful to have you all in the studio
of course. Minister for Youth, Seniors and Equality, Jins and Charles,
thank you so much for your time.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Thank you getting one of last things. So we've got
like AIRFLW tonight at the Area Stadium and tomorrow's as well.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
It's all happening. It's going to be a busy weekend.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Justine Davis, Independent Member for Johnston, thank you so much
for your time.

Speaker 4 (46:56):
Thanks Katie, and I just want to say it is
one year. We've got three years to go. I really
hope that this government into the future becomes a government
of inclusion and listening to all the voices and making
sure that we can actually build a territory that represents
and belongs to everyone.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Selena you bo In Catherine the Opposition leader, thank you
for your time this morning.

Speaker 5 (47:16):
Thanks Katie and Go the Mighty Bombers for that good stuff.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
Good on you.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Thank you all so much for your time this morning.
You are listening to Mix one O four point nine.