The Week That Was - 31st January 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The first week that was for twenty twenty five and
in the studio with me this morning, we've got the
Attorney General Marie Claire Booth be good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
To you, good morning and to your listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Lovely to have you in the studio. From Sky News.
We have got Matt Cunningham. Good morning, Matt, good morning.
Will be lovely to have you back in the studio.
And for the Labor Party, the Shadow Minister for lots
of different portfolios. I'm thinking Duran Young, good morning to you.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yes, a lot of port shadow portfolios. Good morning for you.
And can I say Happy New Year? Is it too
late now?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
You still can? I think you still care? Well? It
is a happy time because school's gone back for most
schools so long, so we're feeling pretty good again. Now.
It's been a pretty busy week as well. We know
that the federal Opposition leader Peter Dutton was in Alice
Springs earlier in the week to meet with local leaders
and residents to hear about concerns in the Red Center. Well,

(00:50):
some of those concerns around crime really have been on
for a long time now. The visit was fitting because
we are set to head to a federal election this year,
many territoryans wondering what a potential labor or coalition government
would do to try and curb the horrendous issues that
we've experienced when it comes to crime, and we got
some answers, I guess a little earlier in the week

(01:13):
or yesterday as well, we had Peter Dutton on the
show and he said that he is going to support
the Northern Territory government to implement practical initiatives to address
crime and disorder in Alice Springs and the Northern Territory
more generally. Now we know that so far, and we
spoke to the Chief Minister about this earlier in the
week as well. One of the seven requests has been

(01:33):
fulfilled by the Federal Labor government after those restrictions around
drone use in Alice Springs were loosened. That was about
mid December. The Chief Minister, though, also wanted to ensure
things like royalty payments were made in communities not in
Alice Springs, the reintroduction of compulsory work for training programs,
fortnightly reporting requirements, a performance audit to be conducted of

(01:55):
federally funded programs, amongst other things. Matt, you were in
Alice Springs.

Speaker 4 (02:00):
Weren't you, Yeah, it was, Katie. It's interesting because this
week was two weeks since Anthony Alberanezi made that emergency
visit to Alice Springs after things had really blown up there.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
A year ago.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
Two years ago, yeah, yeah, two years ago. Yeah. So
and I would have to say that I think people
are in Alice Springs. I get the feeling they're reluctant
to say things are better because I don't want to say,
oh things, you know, things really improved, and then tomorrow
there's another horrific crime and they end up with egg
on their face. But I would say that there's a

(02:38):
much better feeling in the town now than there was
two years ago. I think there's been a marked improvement,
and even twelve months ago. I was in Alice Springs
for a week in January, and this year it felt
a lot quieter. The streets felt a lot quieter. Police
are saying that the crime is down. I think some
of those initiatives are really starting perhaps to have an impact.

(03:02):
We saw the extra police who've come there from South Australia.
I think a lot of people are saying that's made
a difference. I spent a night out with with the
Chief Minister and the Federal Opposition leader and the Northern
Territory Police looking at that drone, at those drones and
they work. And the police are saying that they're having
a real impact too, especially when it comes to things
like stolen cars, because you know, they can track them

(03:24):
far more easily, and they're starting to say that even
some of the offenders are saying they're more reluctant to
steal a vehicle because they pretty much know that they're
going to get caught. So, you know, touch wood. But
I do hope that things are on the up in
Alice Springs, that they're you know, we called it the
crime crisis there for a long time. I think now
what they have though, is an economic crisis.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
You know.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
One of the most confronting scenes for me and Alice
Springs now is not walking around to the streets at
one or two o'clock in the morning. It's walking down
the Todd Mall at two o'clock in the afternoon where
you just see shut up after shutter after shutter after shutter.
What used to be a thriving tourism center is now
almost a ghost town.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, it's true, and I think you touched on quite
a few things there, both of you actually, and you
know from speaking to locals down there, there is there's
a marked difference in the sense of the town and
the fact that Peter Dunton has agreed to all of
those seven approaches that means that the work has to continue.
You know, even if there's this reprieve at the moment
and we're seeing it up the police are saying that
the community is saying that as well, that things are

(04:28):
feeling a lot safer, which is like a fundamental right
that people have. But going to the yeah, the way
that the town is as a whole, and being able
to get visitors back there so the tourism industry can
start again because I've just been you know, hemorrhaging for
years now. It's a huge focus now for the government.
This year is going to be a year of action

(04:49):
and really focusing on rebuilding the economy like it's it's critical,
and we had to get the crime element right first.
We had to have all the police out on the
beat making sure that they were resting people and you know,
if you're doing the wrong thing, that you are arrested
and locked up and dealt with through the courts, and
that there are consequences like that huge part of being
able to turn around the economy. But now it's about

(05:11):
you know, rebuilding economy. And we've got our Treasurer going
out on a road show to talk about, you know,
the state of affairs with the books of the territory
and then the steps that we're going to take to
be able to make sure that we can have visitation
more people coming here to live because they love it.
I mean, we all love it. We're territorians, are we
really proud of it, and we're just at that tipping
point right now and.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
It has to get to that point. Look, I do
want to delve more deeply into the jails and the
courts a little bit later this hour, But Duran, I mean,
it's been a tough time in Alice, There's no doubt
about that. And I think just before Christmas as well,
we certainly discussed it on this show. But you know,
we had a situation where there was a home invasion
and a little baby skull got fractured. You know, it's
been a really like it's been a really tough state

(05:53):
of affairs. I think to put it mildly in Alice Springs.
They absolutely deserve to be on the train back of
hopefully things getting better. But I mean, are these steps
do you think from the from the federal opposition, do
you feel as though they're going to make much of
a difference.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah, Look, and firstly, you know, we do want to
see community safety. I think everyone at the table here
can agree to that. What we saw last year with
the young baby with the fractured skull was absolutely horrific.
And you know, I'm sure all of our hearts go
out to the family and the young kid. So but yeah,
I think I don't think Peter Dutton's visit has made

(06:35):
any impact to the community at all. I mean, he's
talking about looking at putting Senlink payments on days where
it's alcohol free. We've already seen the federal minister Melanderie
McCarthy talk about. At the moment, I think it's roughly
about people are receiving about ten percent of their Senatellink
payments per day, which is helping people budget over time

(06:57):
rather than getting a lump some having a lot of
money to do that. So she's spoken about that already.
So those initiatives are already in place, I think around
the royalty distributions most we've spoken to the land councils
about this directly. Pretty much all royalties are paid into communities,

(07:18):
so I think it's over ninety percent of those. The
only ones that aren't the kind of communities that are
very close to urban settings like Alice Springs. There's a
couple of communities that just sit just outside of Alice Springs.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
So do you reckon it's small? Its service from the
federal government.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
One hundred percent. I think the evidence shows that, and
it is lip service too, so it's politicizing an issue
that's not really there.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
I think the reality is though, in the communities, when
payments are made there, the people still want to get
their cash out, and they have to go into town
to get the cash out. And I've been down there.
When the banks are open, they're definitely as long queues,
and then of course the bottle shops will open a
few hours after that, so then there's long views there
as well. So it is something that needs to be addressed.
And I'm just really glad that Peter Dunn is going

(08:01):
to support the Truth Territory government because we can't do
it alone as a government. We need the federal government
to step in and help us with this, and this
goes a long way to be able to make sure
that all the steps we've already taken can be built
upon and then we can make it the place safe
and of course grow the economy down there.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
That doesn't Like you're talking about people being able to
take a transaction out from a bank. I mean, that's
an issue for the bank. So you're still going to
have that issue if you the royalties are paid in
a lump or whatever. It is back to communities because
you've just said it yourself that people from communities have
to come into town. So the issue there is actually
talking to the banks to ensure that people have access

(08:40):
to a banking service in their community. That's got So
that's a separate issue to itself.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
And look, I mean from my mindset, I think to myself,
we've got to do things differently to what we've been
doing them. It's the way I sort of I've got
an approp that's my approach at this point in time.
Like the way that we've been doing things for the
last sort of team years is clearly not working because
we've seen a real deterioration in the behavior right across

(09:06):
the Northern territory, like Alice Springs is it's hipping point,
but we've seen a deterioration right across the Northern territory.

Speaker 4 (09:11):
I think, I think, you know, the idea that I
will pay royalty payments in communities rather than in town
is almost like non consequential. I think that there's a bigger,
more important conversation to have around royalty payments more generally,

(09:31):
and around the payment of money in return for no
work basically, which is an issue if you look at
the way things that blew up in Alice Springs that
came to a crescendo in January twenty twenty three, if
you go back a couple of years, go back to
twenty twenty twenty twenty one, I think that's where the

(09:52):
problems really started. And I spent more than a week
down in Alas Springs and Central Australia at that time
reporting on the impact of the doubling of welfare payments,
allowing early access to superannuation, and also the removal of
mutual obligation when it came to obtaining those sen link payments.

(10:15):
And I think those three things that happened altogether that
were done by a federal coalition government that was looking
at a problem, a nationwide problem caused by COVID and
a downturn in the economy. But despite warnings that came
from people like Scott McConnell, had really no regard for
the impact that was going to come and have in
the Northern Territory. Now, anyone who's lived here for any

(10:36):
period of time knew that doing those things was going
to cause huge problems, and it did. And I don't
think I think only now four years later are we
starting to recover from those problems. And so I think
we just need to look at that space and say,
you know, we just can't be you know, people need
enough welfare money, enough money to be able to eat,

(10:58):
to live where a decent, humane society, and we need
you know, but the idea of putting large sums of
money into people's bank accounts when they don't have the
financial literacy, literacy skills or whatever else, and they have
addictions to alcohol and various others just a recipe for disaster.
And I think we need to look closely at that
space if we're going to fix some of those.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
Problems, and like just backing up what Matt's saying there too.
I think you know, at the time, I think it
was under Minister White, wasn't it. He was a minister
at the time. I think at that time it was
probably justified to take those mutual obligations at the time
because of COVID and what we had. But what we
did then did see after the fact, was that they

(11:38):
didn't go back on and look at how do we
get people back into the work or workforce. So what's
happened now is we've had consultations I think Malandari McCarthey
and Linda Bernie under them consultation about how we can
look at reforming the CDP program. And now we've got
a program out where people can apply for grants at

(11:59):
the moment to look at real jobs on country because
I know under the previous program it was some of
the jobs were they didn't have any meaning or they
weren't meaningful at all. I think I went to one
community and there were there were people just saying they're
rocking up and there's actually nothing for them to do.
But that's showing to turn up was ticking people off

(12:20):
the list. But now they can actually apply for real
jobs and get into training.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
And I feel like that's kind of part of a
broader conversation as well. Even when you look at things
like mining, when you look at things like industry, when
you look at things that could be happening, you know,
in different areas of the Northern Territory and in different communities,
the reality of it is, you know, while I know
there are obviously environmental concerns with some different industry, you know,

(12:45):
as it develops, there does need to be meaningful jobs
for people, and there does need to actually be the
opportunity to be able to get into the workforce and
have a job and see generational change. See your mum,
your dad, your grandma, everybody working and going, hey, I
wouldn't mind working at the mines. That's what happened in
Mount Isa where I grew up. Everybody worked because that's

(13:06):
what you see. Everybody's got a job, doesn't matter where
you grew up, doesn't matter what your background was, doesn't
matter where you came from. You know, that was sort
of that was the way it was. Everybody wanted to
work at the mine. And I know it's different here,
but I think we need.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
Jobs and the mine and the mining industry is so
important in that space. I mean, if you look at
it at MacArthur River, I think their Indigenous workforce is
almost twenty five percent perhaps of their workforce at glen
Core out there. If you look at out in Nulan, boy,
the benefits that have come from the mining industry out there,
and the way that you know, organizations like the Good

(13:40):
Much Corporation have then turned around and built their own
mind out there and their own industries that are employing
you know, more than one hundred young people out in
northeast Arnham Land. I mean, that's where the potential has
to be. You're right, I mean, you're both right. You
can't have someone just sitting in it putting stamps on
envelopes and calling that employment. You've got to have a
real job, and it's always been difficult to get to

(14:01):
create real employment in some of these places. But you know,
hats off to the government if that's what they're doing.
There are of course those who you know, do everything
in their power to stand in the way of some
of these industries in these places, and I would just
question whether they consider the impact that has on the

(14:23):
potential for Indigenous people disadvantage in Indigenous people to get
real employment and whether that needs to play more of
a part in their thinking when they just simply come
out and say no to whatever project gets proposed.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
Hey, I want to talk a bit more generally about
the fact that we are heading into the federal election year,
so obviously we're going to see lots of different promises made.
I think even this week we've seen a few different
commitments made by the Coalition and indeed the Labor Party,
but we also have seen just seem to number jimper
Price elevated or reshuffled into the Shadow Minister for Government Efficiency.

(14:57):
But you know, I think it's a title that the
tru administration is also used. Now she's announced cuts to
funding for welcome to countries, amongst other things that would
be audited. What do you make of this move?

Speaker 2 (15:13):
I think, I mean it's great that she now has
a position where government efficiency can be front and center.
I mean, coming into government ourselves, we can see so
much waste that happens across every facet that you could
think of, and I think it's important, like this is
taxpayers money. It needs to go into things that actually
shift the dial. And of course in the territory. That's
very important because the funds aren't flowing as freely as

(15:36):
we need them to be. That's why it's some point
to rebuild the economy. I mean, she's had a very
important role as a Shadow of Indigenous Affairs for a
long time. She's been calling for changes to the like
the way that the land councils work and the way
the income management works and a lot of things that
will help territories because she is a territory and I
think coming into this new role now of efficiency, it

(15:57):
just adds to that. I mean she wants, you know,
all of the federally funded programs that come into the
territory to be audited, and she's been calling for that
for a very long time.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Do you know if the Northern Territory government has a
budget or has a spend when it comes to welcome
to countries and what that would fall under and how
much it is.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
I don't have that detail on me, Katie. I'm not sure.
I think it's usually up to each individual who's doing
an event for example, like there's many people that do.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
It's not like one big vie.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Look, it could sit under protocol as such, and yeah,
I really couldn't say because that's sort of not my area.
But you know, organizations can choose to run an event
and have a procedure of however they wish, and.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
You know, I mean, what do you think of her
saying that she would scrap the funding for that?

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Well, I think it's you know, it's up to what
Territorians or Australians in that sense want to see. I mean,
I think are welcome to country is a nice thing
to do, but when you have it where it's very, very,
very costly, I've seen some invoices where it's you know,
up to five thousand dollars to do a welcome to Country,
and I just I think that as a taxpayer that

(17:07):
they would probably question that. And so I don't think
it's about getting rid of things that cost money, but
I think it's just about re looking at it and imagining,
you know, well, how can we do this better because
it can be very expensive and we want to be
able to ensure that all Territorians are included in things
that happen in ad events.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Five k for a welcome to country, five thousand for
a welcome to country? Is it like at a big event?

Speaker 2 (17:31):
I the one I saw it was I think it
was an event at the waterfront, and they ended up
not being able to go with the cost of it
because they just couldn't afford it, like this was a
group and so they ended up and there was another option.
They were able to have another type of welcome to
country instead of you know, all the musicians and things
like that. So, you know, but I guess it goes

(17:52):
to the point of the there's a lot of things
that government pays for across a lot of areas and
it all has to be looked at because there isn't
enough need to go around to everyone. So it's not
that specific thing, it's it's a much broader piece of
work I believe she'll be doing, and of course all
governments are doing.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Thoughts, boys, what do you reckon about the welcome to
country and and the you know, the possibility I suppose
that you know that the funding for them could be scrapped.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah, look, I think it's just personally quite disappointing, Like
I'm not sure why the c LP government or just
seem to feel so threatened by a Welcome to Country.
I mean, it's just you know, we are on aboraginal land,
we are and it's a welcoming to welcome people to

(18:39):
their country and I just don't understand why Australians can't
reconcile with that. I don't think it's a big ask.
I think it. You know, we were just talking about
the CDP program before and jobs for people. This is
for some people employment and I think traditionally there was
a trade there too, which so some people go, well,

(18:59):
you know, why do we have to pay for this,
But if you look at traditional methods, there where other
ways of trade through different you know, depending what group
that was. So you know, I think it's fair to
be able to pay for this which creates employment, but
it's also a beautiful thing and something that our country
should be very proud of our heritage and our background

(19:20):
as well, instead of always stomping on Aboriginal people, which
is what the CLP government seemed to do day in
day out.

Speaker 4 (19:27):
I think it's I mean, it's become such a sort
of hot topic issue, hasn't it. And it started, you know,
as something that you know, I think was done in
good faith. I think I think the reason there's become
a level of frustration, like if you were if you
were at TiO Stadium when Richard fij did his Welcome
to Country before the Richmond Esten Dream Time in twenty twenty.

(19:49):
You know, I think most people had shivers down their
spine and they said that's the best you know, that
was the best thing we've seen here all year. Just amazing.
But you know, I'm sitting on the plane the other
day as we're coming into land and that the flight attendant,
in the same monotone voice that she's telling you to
put your trade table up and your seat back, is
then acknowledging the you know, the local indigenous people without

(20:13):
even knowing.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Who they are. It's a platitude and I think that.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
That's what's drawing. And I know there's a difference between
acknowledgment to the country and welcome to country, but I
think that's where there's been a level of frustration that's grown.
And most of it's been driven I think by corporations
rather than government, where they go where they just go, oh,
you're just this is you're just doing this out of
pure tokenism. You know, you've come up with a reconciliation
action and some HR executive has put this in the

(20:37):
Reconciliation Action plan. Which is and it's doing absolutely nothing
for reconciliation. It's just making you feel a little bit better.
And and for most people it's you know, they're sitting
in their seat rolling their eyes, I think, and I
think that's why it's become a controversial topic. I mean,
removing funding for Welcome to Country is not going to
fix the budget, you know, but unfortunately, you know, has

(21:00):
now become part of.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
The sort, it's part of the it's part of the discussion.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
It's going back to justinto saying that, you know, we
need to look at efficiency and where that funding is.
And then are the Attorney General Marie Claibooth. He said
they'll be looking at that. So obviously there's an agenda
there to cut jobs for public servants. So I actually
you talked about that. I mean, that's you've got to

(21:28):
cut money elsewhere. So you just talked about that. So
it's something that you that's what you're indicating at. That's
what you're indicating at.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
The only language you know in Laborg.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Just what you said, we are going to have to
take a very quick break. You are listening to Mix
one O four nine's three sixty. It is the week
that was you are listening to the week that was,
if you've just joined us in the studio with us today.
We've got Murray Claire Boothy, the Attorney General. We've got
Matt Cunningham from Sky News and to Ryan Young for
the Labor Party, and we'll look it has been a
lot happening throughout the week and the jails. We know

(22:02):
that the jails are once again overflowing. Well I don't
think they've stopped overflowing, but we've now got more than
four hundred additional prisoners who've entered the correction system in
the Northern Territory since August last year. Now, the Chief
Minesster joined us on the show earlier in the week
and really made no apologies for the fact that people
are being locked up. She says she wants Territorians to

(22:24):
be safe. The concern though, is the fact that our
corrections facilities are busting at the scene. I mean we
learned earlier in the week the Catherine Watchhouse is now
being used to house prisoners. We don't have correction staff
there in Catherine, so that has become the job of
our Northern Territory Police. We've got more than fifty percent

(22:44):
of prisoners on remand, and concerns are being raised about
whether the conditions in which those prisoners are in are
up to scratch. I mean, first off, four hundred extra prisoners.
There's some massive numbers, right, and.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Let's be really clear. Territorians need to know that that
is four hundred less people that are out on our
streets committing crimes against innocent Territorians. And that's the point.
You know, we were very clear we wanted to ensure
police go out and if you're doing something wrong, you
are arrested and you will be put into a correction
facility until you get to have your day in court.

(23:23):
The Corrections master Plan was stood up only a few
weeks after we came into government to ensure that we
could get infrastructure in place to ensure that, you know,
as police arrest people, there is some way for them
to go. And that's been fast tracked. The infrastructure people
and contractors have been working day and night to get
more beds into the temporary facility at Berrima. There's one

(23:45):
hundred and sixty beds in there. The other Springs Correctional
Center will come online and there's ninety six beds in that.
Corrections facility. We have to use the watch housers to
put people, but those four hundred people are now not
out on our streets committing more crimes, and that of
course will make the territories safer place. And we make
no apologies for continuing along this line. Commission of Valley

(24:07):
said that prisoners needs are being met. You know, they
are getting their their water, they're getting their clothes changed
each day. They they are, they're fine, they're doing okay.
I was out at the prison yesterday and at the
BEMA one, the temporary one. The prisoners in there, their
well being is being looked after. But we can't forget

(24:28):
that these people did the wrong thing against somebody else,
and you know now there's a consequence for that. It's
not supposed to be a luxurious hotel.

Speaker 4 (24:36):
I took a tour of the new beh well, new
old temporary temporary what used to be old Dondale Hang
on you don't.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
Was definitely on for good.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
But and.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
The conditions in there that I saw, I think were
actually really good. The the cells which were either single
or double had split system air conditioners and plasma TVs.
You know, my first view when I looked.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
In so is this the adult prisoner, the adult.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
Prison, the repurpose what used to be an adult prison
became the youth prison and has now been repurposed again.
It was just before Christmas. It was when they just
moved the first six sixty prisoners in.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
There, and I went there with plasma TV.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
And I was out there with Jared Mayley and they
had and they repurposed the cells in the old high
security block there, and each one of those cells had
a plasma TV and a split system air conditioner in it,
as well as sort of new bunk beds and a toilet.
I mean, I'm not saying I'm not don't don't don't.

(25:51):
Yeah that that that that's the thing. Like I was
surprised when I saw it. I was like, oh, this
is not this is not the dungeon that we're told
that it is now. I'm not saying that conditions are
great everywhere in their correction system. And clearly when you've
got twenty seven hundred people who are locked up and
some of them are in watchhouses and whatever, and the
guys on the front page of the paper today saying
get me back to New South Wales because this is

(26:13):
no good, you know, I'm not saying in every and
you know how it holts, there's no air conditioning. It
was a cost saving measure when you built the place.
But what I saw with my own eyes firsthand when
I went out there, would sort of contradict I think
an argument that this is absolutely horrific. I think in

(26:34):
Alice Springs there's issues, and there's been issues for a
long time. You know, sixteen people in one of those
cells that doesn't have air conditioning in Alice Springs is
on a forty three very well recipe for a disaster.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
But yeah, yes, so that is the report obviously this
week is that ye sixteen in some cases up to
sixteen prisoners in a cell at one point in time.
There was also claims that they were having to Some
people were drinking from a tap that's sort of attached
to the toilet. Now I'd spoken to the Corrections commissioner
about this yesterday. He said, Katie, you can go and

(27:06):
google it yourself if you want to. You know, this
is a like a stainless steel toilet as I understand it,
that are used quite commonly across different facilities, where then
it's sort of got a sink attachment to it. He said,
prisoners are fed three times a day, they get water
as well, so he refuted, you know, claims that they
weren't getting those things and that they weren't being treated

(27:28):
in a humane way. I did put to him that
the independent Arnham Land politician in your Guayula had made
a request to see the UN Special Rapperteur on the
Rights of Indigenous People's visit the Northern Territory and go
into the jails. He said, you know that he has
to obviously adhere to different standards, to all of the
different standards I think, he said, he you know, he

(27:50):
has different, you know, different sort of oversights. I can't
remember who those you know, who exactly those different you know,
those different people were that have to oversee that humane
action is being taken within our jails. But look, you
know these I guess there is no doubt that the
jails are going to be absolutely full. Some of the

(28:13):
questions I'm getting asked on the tech line over the
last couple of days is are we building another one?
You know, that's where people are ash at the moment,
rightly or wrongly. They're like, we don't want people out
on the street doing the wrong thing. And if we
need to build a bigger jail, then we need to
build a bigger jail.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
That's right, okay, And the master plan it does address
that ensures that we have more beds all going back
into halts though, so it's all in the one location,
extra facilities out there. It's all part of a master plan.
And you know what, if people still keep committing crime,
we'll keep fighting the better, We'll keep building more jails.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
Look, I think that's an absurd thing to say. In
terms of community safety. We know that locking people up
and the measures that the CLP government have put in,
like we have people on remos and at the moment
there are potentially innocent people that are locked up right now,
which is only going to make a community more dangerous

(29:08):
because when people get out, they're going to be resentful
against the community. We haven't seen a plan from the
SALP government how a you're actually going to reduce crime.
What programs are you going to bring into community to
ensure that people don't get in touch with the justice system.
I think we need to be honest here and have
an honest conversation that locking people up doesn't create a

(29:31):
safer community. I'm not saying we shouldn't have consequences, but
we do need programs out there to support people before
they get in touch with the justice system. Otherwise what
we're going to see is this revolving door. And you're
talking about it's not about the politics, skied. Let's talk honestly,

(29:52):
It's been decades and decades. So we need to look
at real solutions that are actually going to make the
community safe. For build up communities. Where we just talked
about workforce, we should be looking at education, health, housing.
That is what's going to solve the real issues. But
coming in and having this revolving door, it's only.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Going to make the issue here. I don't agree, like
I agree with the fact that we don't want a
revolving door when it comes to crime, There's no doubt
about that. But you know, the issue of remand it
is a big, big issue, and there should not be people,
you know, and no doubt there will be some that
are innocent that are potentially spending time in jail. I
would assume because we have got an issue at the moment,

(30:33):
a real backlog with the courts. But I do just
want to note because this is something that sort of
that shocked me a little bit. Earlier in the week,
it was a report by Zezi Avril and the NT
News about the grotesque assault of a sleeping woman in
the heart of Darwin, exposing the horrors lurking in the
dark secluded areas of the city, praying on vulnerable territories. Now,

(30:54):
the Darwin Local Court Judge Stephen Geary said the sexual
assault of a sleeping woman was a prevalent crime in
the top end which went disturbingly unreported. Now on Tuesday,
this person pleaded guilty to indecently touching an unconscious, intoxicated
woman in Darwin, CBD on Wednesday, April seventeenth, twenty twenty four.

(31:16):
Now I raise this because in sentencing the judge seed
that you know. This person pleaded guilty to indecently touching
and was sentenced to fifteen months in prison with a
ten month non parole period. However, with nine months already
served on remand, mister Geary said that this person could
be eligible for release in just a few weeks. He said,

(31:39):
hopefully you'll do some rehabilitation with regard to your alcohol abuse.
Now again I'll say in four weeks, in four weeks, yes,
So that's ridiculous. But the reason I raise this is
because I go, this is a violent sexual offender who
was on the streets and who was committing crime, who

(32:00):
then was on remand and rightly bloody should have been.
You know. To think that there is somebody out there
who's sexually assaulting an unconscious woman in our CBD absolutely
infuriates me. It not only infuriates me, it frightens me.
I think there is young women, young women, old women,

(32:21):
whatever age you might be, whether you're homeless, whether you've
got a house, you end up on the street, you
pass out, and something like that can happen makes me
feel absolutely disgusted and people like that shouldn't be out
on the streets.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, and that's exactly right, Katie. Those are horrific things
that have been happening, and it's been happening for far
too long. And that's why Territorians voted for a c
orp government, because we need to deal with these disgusting
criminals that are out there doing these kinds of crime.
When they are from the court, the sentencing is obviously
at the judges discretion, but as parliamentarians we can actually

(32:57):
set the sentencing regimes and that's hard of the work
we already did introducing Declan's Law and the bail changes
to tighten those up so that judges have to make
a decision that you know, if you're a serius vilent offender,
you're not going to be out in the street. And
the same with the sentencing for violent crimes like that.
All of those things. This need to be looked at. Again,
it's not a set and forget we didn't just come
in and do a couple of things in parliament in

(33:18):
late last year. It'll continue. Every thing we do in
parliament will be aimed at those three main things that
we talked about, reducing crime, rebuilding our economy and restoring
our lifestyle. And our lifestyle should be that we can
go out and have a nice time during the day
and at night without those criminals out in the street.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yeah, and look, that is a disgusting crime and no
one's disputing that. It's horrific if that's happening, and I
think anyone would say that there needs to be obviously
of strong consequence to that as well. But what we
are seeing with the remand is there are very very
minor offenses or first time offenders which is then slowing

(33:54):
down the system, the justice system to actually deal with
those serious cases that need to be a dress because
we're looking at such small, petty staff that might be
someone's first time being in touch with the justice system.
We could have been putting them into a program to
get back on track. We don't even know if they've
committed that offense yet.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
I tell you, I just on the day that Declan's
law came into effect, I went and sat in court
one of the magistrate's court because I wanted to just go,
you know, a soft magistrates letting you know, serious offenders
off And I'll tell you what I saw. And I
think Alan Woodcock was the judge, and I think there
were six cases that came before him for bail, right,

(34:38):
and I reckon four of the six. Four of the
six were DV they would repeat offender DV. Right. In
two of those cases, a lawyer tried to insinuate that
the woman had been responsible for provoking the man, and
the judge almost picked those lawyers up and threw them

(34:59):
out of his courtroom, just just dressed them down, like
you know, don't you dare bring that up in front
of me, And then said to the defendant. You're a
repeat you know, I can see your file here. You're
a repeat offender, domestic violence offender. You're not getting bail,
bang remand And there are a couple who were first

(35:19):
offenders minor and he sent it off for a bail assessment,
which would come back. But that's the thing to Ryan.
I think that I think the people who are being
remanded in many cases people who are being accused of
committing serious crimes, serious crimes, and I would say the

(35:40):
majority of them are crimes of violence, and in the
majority of cases, the victims are Aboriginal people off and
Aboriginal women. I think that's what we're dealing with. And
we're talking about community safety, community safety, community safety. Like
you know, people who work in some of these areas
will tell you that for the women, a lot of
the time, the only time they feel safe is when

(36:01):
their partner is in jail. And I know that's not
all Aboriginal men, and that's you know, like, I'm not
absolutely I'm not trying to say that, but it is
a real problem, and it is it does take up
a significant amount, it does represent a significant amount of
the people who are in the justice system and in prison, and.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
This is like, you know, as an Aboriginal person myself,
I totally condemned that type of behavior and I think
it's absolutely disgusting and there's no place for that in
our communities at all. We have to address the root
causes and ensure that we have programs in communities, safe communities,
because otherwise we're going to continue to see this happen.

(36:40):
And I see it. I see it every day, and
I understand there's going to be consequence of that, but
we've got it exactly. That's but I haven't seen any
evidence from that from the c LP where they've gone
into communities to look at running these programs, building stronger
communities around.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Second break program has been quite successful.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
Well, I guess the problem as well at the moment
is that the way that the community had felt, though,
is that labor wasn't doing the other and that was
actually putting people behind bars if they were committing violent offenses,
you know, rightly or wrongly. That was how people felt.
So I think we do need to do both, and
the community's expectations are that the current government does. But look,

(37:19):
we're going to have to take a really quick break.
You are listening to mix one O four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was. Well, there is plenty
to discuss this morning on the week that was. But
one of the topics that got everybody talking yesterday was
the fact that we have now learned that there's been
concerns raised over the removal of the Torres Strait Islander
and lgbtqi plus flags from Royal Darwin Foyer and the

(37:42):
Palmerston Hospital foyer. Now the AMA as well as ASMOFNT
that's the Australian Salary Medical Offices of the Northern Territory
and their members have expressed deep concern over the recent
removal of the Torres Strait Islander and lgbtqi plus flags
from the front foyers of the Royal Darwin Hospital and

(38:03):
the Palmerston Regional Hospitals. They say the removal of these
symbols of inclusion and representation of sparked fears about the
impact on patients and visitors who identify as Torres Strait
Islander or lgbtqia. Now, as I understand it, the government
has said that it's that it was protocol and that

(38:24):
I believe the protocol is the Northern Territory, the Australian
and the Aboriginal flag. Look, I've been contacted by people
on both sides of the fence on this topic. I've
had people contact me and say, Katie, you know, I'm Greek.
There's not a Greek flag up. You know why, Like
do I then feel unwelcome going into the hospital or
I'm Asian whatever?

Speaker 3 (38:44):
You know.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
I use that as an example. But then I have
also been contacted by friends who are LGBTQI A plus
who've said, you know, they actually just seeing that flag
when they enter the foyer does make them feel a
little bit more comfortable going in there, and like they
are going to see somebody who they're comfortable talking to

(39:08):
about whatever their concern may or may not be. So
I think that this, like it is a it's a
really kind of divisive topic. I'm keen to, I guess
find out first off, why the government had made the
decision to remove those flags.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
My understanding is that it was identified that they weren't
adhering to protocol just in the in the anti health
facilities in Darwin and Palmerston. And like you said, it's
a long standing Northern Territory protocol which is set and
you know everyone at bards By it where there is
the Australian, the Northern Territory and an Aboriginal flag that's
able to be flown in that particular protocol style. Schools

(39:47):
do the same thing as that. There's a number of
buildings that do it. I think what I'm hearing when
I'm speaking to the community yesterday and this morning was
it's a case of like if ever unders goes and
puts whatever flags up that they want, like where does
it end? I mean there could be a multitude of flags,
and I think you know, if you're feeling really sick

(40:07):
and unwell, your primary thought is I just want to
get better, and so of course you're going to choose
somewhere to go that makes you feel comfortable. And I
think you could say the same thing about any of
our people in our community, all territories, and I think,
you know, it's a long standing protocol and I think
we should just adhere to that.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
I guess on that though, if it's not sort of
hurting anybody having the you know, the rainbow flag up,
does it need to be removed? Well, it's part of
the building and the Torrest Straight Islander one or yeah,
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
My understanding is the terrorist right islander one at the
hospital is still there. So I'll come back to you
on that because I actually don't know. I just heard
that early late this morning. But I think it's just
about having you know, there's a protocol there, we abide
by it. If there's requests from the community to put
up other things and that protocol, then you know, you
could look at changing protocol. But but it's about you know,

(41:01):
where does it end, like how many flags should we fly?

Speaker 1 (41:04):
I have also now been sent a screenshot of a
notice that's gone out then from the general manager of
the Palmeston Regional Hospital saying please be advised that the
transgender and rainbow flags have been temporarily removed as they're
being framed for display on the wall.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
There you go. Yeah, i'd heard that as well, Katie,
through my lectured officer Kirsty, who identifies or sorry not
identifies who is gay, and she was quite upset about
this yesterday and was telling me a lot of her
friends and that were upset as well, and we heard

(41:42):
we'd heard that, So that's great news from the Palmeston
general manager to put that in place. I just don't
understand how this is a priority for the CLP government.
You know, we've just spoken for the last hour about
some of the issues that are raised for territorians, and
yet this is the priority of Health Minister to actually
come out and say we need these flags removed. I mean,

(42:04):
it's not harming anyone. If anything, it's celebrating our diverse
community in the Northern Territory and it's something if that
makes people feel safe to be able to go and
get health care, we should just leave it. It hasn't It
hasn't impacted any of the health care for any territory
and if anything, it's enhancing it because people can go
to the to the hospital or to the clinic and

(42:25):
actually feel safe.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
Yeah, I think I think from a political point of view,
I think Duran makes a good point. You look at
look at the Labor government and its demise, and yes,
law and order crime was the biggest issue, and the
economy was a big issue. But there were things that
happened when Labor was in power that they did where

(42:49):
people said, how on earth can you be wasting so
much time and resources doing this stuff when you have
a fire burning in front of you? And use any
example spending two years plus and god knows how much
money on an Education Department document that tells teachers they
can't call boys and girls boys and girls because it

(43:09):
might upset the point one percent of students who might
be questioning their gender. And people see that and just go,
oh my god, you've lost the plot, right, You've been
dragged into your far left wing echo chamber, and you're
way out of touch with community expectations. Now there's a
sort of a global recorrection that's happening to some of
this stuff at the moment. The danger for the COLP

(43:31):
as a government, I think is that it gets dragged
over to the far other side, right and it goes
and says, well, we're going to go and take the
rainbow flag out of the hospital because you know, blah
blah blah blah blah ye, and it probably won't do
a heap of political damage to it at the moment.
And you know, most of the reaction I've seen has been,
oh yeah, well, like you were saying before, why can't

(43:53):
we have this flag with that flow? But if it
did that in three years time in the middle of
a hospital crisis, and we've kind of got an ongoing
hospital crisis, people will turn around, I think, and say
where are your priorities? Like your priorities should be making
sure that the hospital system is running effectively, which is not.

(44:13):
Your priority should be on the things that there.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Actually and that is actually something that other people raised
with us yesterday. Thy were like, goodness me, Wilfy, why
are we talking about this? You know, like we've had
to wait at the bloody hospital for how many hours
to go and see someone. So it is all about priorities.
But look, like I say, I know, there's lots of
divided opinions on this, and like you said, Matt, you know,
I think we're seeing this sort of this movement around
the nation at the moment, particularly with Donald Trump being elected,

(44:39):
that some of those views are you know, sort of
going one way. But we do live in a really
inclusive community and it should remain a really inclusive community.
And you know every year you see the Pride festival
happen here in the Northern Territory and it is an
absolutely glorious event what happens, and we should safe celebrate.
We should stay really you know, of our community. But look,

(45:01):
we are going to have to take a really quick break.
You're listening to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was well. You have been
listening to the week that was the first one back
for the year, and I wasn't very good at, you know,
keeping my timing. We've run out of time, guys, there
was so much to discuss. We've run out of time,
but never any shortage of opinion in here. Thank you
all very much for your time. Marie Claire Boothby, the

(45:23):
Attorney General of the Northern Territory, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Looking forward to the year ahead as well, Katie. A
year of action from the CELP so it can rebuild economy.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
I hope so, I hope so. Matt Cunningham from Sky News,
thank you. Thanks Katie to run Young, the Labor Member
for Daily and Shadow Minister for lots of different portfolios,
thank you for your time this morning.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
No, thank you, and I also look forward to a
year of action of keeping the CLP government to account.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Good stuff. Good on you. Thanks so much for your
time this morning.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
Guys.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
You are listening to Mix one oh four nine's three
sixty