The Week That Was - 31st October 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
And there's no shortage of things to discuss in the

(00:02):
studio this morning is the Attorney General of the Northern Territory,
Marie Claire booth Be.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Good morning, Good morning Katie, and to your listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
And we've got the opposition leader Selena Yubo, good morning
to you.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
Good morning, Katy, good.

Speaker 4 (00:14):
To have you in the studio.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
And the head of news at the NT News, Gary Shipway,
Good morning, Gary, good morning, lovely to have you all
in the studio. Now I just want to head to
some breaking news. The NT Health have just issued a
statement the Chief Health Officer saying that the NT's Chief
Health Officer, Doctor Paul Burgess, is collaborating with the NTI

(00:36):
Environment Protection Authority to assess inpex's historical under reporting of
its emissions data at the ichthys LNG facility. IMPEX has
notified the NTEPA of a calculation era that had resulted
in an underestimate of annual emissions of benzene and other
volatile organic compounds. Now, current INPEX monitoring data suggests that

(01:00):
emissions of benzene are approximately monitored five times lower than
investigation thresholds. The Chief Health Officer has confirmed there is
no evidence of increased health risks associated with operations at
the IMPEX facility. Now, under the Public and Environmental Health
Act of twenty eleven, the Chief Health Officer has a

(01:23):
statutory role to assess potential risk to public health in
the Northern Territory and as such, the Chief Health Officer
has met with IMPEX and will continue to work closely
with the NTEPA to independently assess any risks to human health,
with a report expected by the end of twenty twenty five,

(01:43):
and an independent investigator has been tasked to verify all
of inpex's data. I mean, we're all hearing this for
the first time this morning.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
What do you make of h yeah, Kadi, I mean
this has been I've talked about for a couple of
weeks now, and of course when we have projects in
the territory, we want to make sure that they are
following all the rules and regulations. And so the fact
that the ANTEPA and the Chief Health Officer and of
course the FEDS are also doing an investigation into this matter,

(02:17):
I think it's it's the right thing to do. We
need to let those bodies and people do that thorough
investigation and of course share with territorians what those results are,
because we want to make sure that there aren't those
risks that of course are concerning to territorians.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Well, absolutely, you know what to be an impact and
impact to our way of life and everything we love
about the Northern Territory. So we've got to make sure
that we get this right. I mean, Selena, what's your reaction.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Yeah, it goes back to the conversation we had just
last week Katie around people want to see development in
the Northern Territory, but they want to see it done
in the processes that provide confidence that things are being
done in the right way. So whether it's around the environment,
where it's around people's health, whether it's around things like
sacred sites, we want to see that there are processes
to protect territories, protect the land, and to protect the sea,

(03:03):
but also to be able to unfortunately, if there are mistakes,
learn from that and make sure we can prevent that
in the future.

Speaker 5 (03:10):
Yeah. I think what we're seeing here is proper process
being followed. I think that there's been a lot of
concern out there in the community about just what does
this mean to me, what does this mean to our
way of life? And look, everything that is happening federally
from a territory perspective for the chief health officers, So
what people expect and yet and then they want to
obviously know what the findings are.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, well, and what I know as well, if there
is any kind of implication there in four impacts in
terms of you know, I don't know where the punishment's
the right word consequence, I guess any kind of consequence
then if there has been you know, if well there's
been under reporting, but why and how come that's been
the case, and if there is going to be a

(03:51):
consequence to that, because I guess we want there to
be a deterrent for anybody else as well to make
sure that they do it right and do it right
the first time.

Speaker 5 (03:59):
And I don't think impexes showing away from that expectation.
I mean conversations I've had with the senior execs there
that if that happens, that they're quite accepting of that.
But as yeah, we've been apologetic and they've tried to
be as upfront as possible now that this is out there,
and yeah, so it's just time will tell.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
And look, it's always a tough juggle I guess in
the sense as you touched on. I think, Selena, we
want to make sure that we have business coming to
the Northern Territory. You want to make sure that you've
got industry here in the Northern Territory, but you want
to make sure that it is all happening in the
appropriate way and there's no detriment to territorians. Now we
know how important obviously having that industry in the NT is.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
I mean, this week the.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Latest Concept State of the States report was released and
according to the October twenty twenty five Concept Report, the
territory leapt from eighth to fourth place in overall economic performance.
It's best ranking in nearly a decade. Now, I said
this earlier in the week. The Chief Minister of it
taken quite a different approach to what we saw from

(05:02):
the former few chief ministers who'd said that they chucked
it in the bin. She didn't chuck it in a bin.
She was using it to her advantage. And I mean,
I do think these numbers need to be looked at.
Over the last ten years, It's something that I've certainly
asked every Chief Minister about and had differing responses. I
guess she'd say based on differing results.

Speaker 5 (05:24):
I think that the Concept report is a credible report,
and obviously figures haven't been good over a number of years.
It's been a struggle. But I think that when comparing
like with like, which was year on year, I like
to compare that rather than ten year averages. Because we're
a small economy, we get affected by things like impacts
and that can just blow the figures out of proportion.

(05:47):
But I think if you compare a year on year,
I think you get a better idea. I think people
get a better idea how we're trending, and there is
some good science which is more positive. I think the
housing area is one that still needs a heavy focus on,
and I think equipment. The drop in equipment purchases, well,
that only comes when we've got development going on and

(06:08):
you'll see the beadlow come along. But in the housing
sector in particular, I think they're crying out for more
to be done, more land to be released. Builders need certainty,
they need twelve months ahead to be able to plan
their projects. So I just think that's an area that
the government probably needs to be seriously focused on.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
It's right and I think you know you can already
feel the change in the confidence in the business and
the industry sectors across the territory. And of course there's
a lot of work that's been done over the last
fourteen months as a new government to make sure that
we could remove that red tape that used to hold
investment back and of course reduce crime to be able
to bring back that confidence so people could feel safe.

(06:47):
And now those results are coming through very strong with
the com SECT report. Of course, jumping to fourth places
is monumental for the territory, but we haven't seen those
kinds of movements in the right direction for a very
long time. And even you know some of that equipment
spend that that Gary touches on. I mean, we had
the first manga site mine open in thirty years and

(07:09):
have those shipments go off overseas and I think that's
testament to the you know, the work that's been done
and everybody pulling in the same direction to get industry here,
and of course it benefits everybody in the territory when
you have a strong economy.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, look, good numbers, no doubt about that. But I
think it is safe to say that we're coming off
a fairly low base as well, and we're coming off
a fairly low base after being on the all time
high when impets did get up and running. So definitely,
I think that we can all take heart in seeing
these numbers. But I did ask the Chief Minister earlier
in the week as well, I mean, was it a

(07:40):
situation where things were starting to turn anyway or do
you reckon Selena?

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, of course it'd be interesting to see. Leah did
respond in terms of that, but I think you outlined Katie.
You know, there's some other factors there as well. It
is always good to see how the norther territory is
doing in that national space. And as Gary said, concept
report is very thorough. It provides that that connection to

(08:06):
what's happening here in the territory and what's happening to
the economies across the country. I think it's really important
to acknowledge and recognize that and also what are the
levers are? Is there more investment privately that's happening in
the Northern Territory, Like it'd be good for the COLP
to be able to dissect that, not just to go
off that you know number. If the change is good
and that's great for the territory. That's good news for

(08:27):
the territory. But again dissecting that information, what has created
that change or is it that there's less government spending
and investment in things like infrastructure a billion dollars out
of the infrastructure budget. Has that created a better space
for us economically? And are our businesses benefiting or are
they at a deficit now? So that's the sort of
things we need to unpick from that data.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
Well, one of the key examples of all of it
really is that construction spend and the fact that we've
got the home build scheme in and it has been
running now for nearly a year, and it's going to
be extended, of course, and it has been extended for
another year. And we've seen one thousand and one hundred
applicants for that home build, So you can imagine an
extra more than the one thousand homes in the territory
in a very short space of time. It creates that

(09:08):
construction stimulus that spend eight hundred of extra homes for
people to move into from the northern suburbs from an
older home, or freeze up stock for people to help
renters like all of those things. It's growing the economy,
and that's exactly the type of policy that needed to happen.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Eight hundred of those thousand figures, close to eight hundred
were for established home. So we asked the question. We
supported the bill that you brought in the other week,
Murray Claire to the Parliament, but we specifically focused if
the larger portion, if the eighty percent of people who
are accessing that grant were for established homes, why did
that part get removed from the extension so it's only

(09:43):
for new bills. I understand what you're talking about stimulating
the economy, and I understand how all that works. But
if territories are getting their foot in the door but
buying an established home, and that is the most popular
part of the grant, eighty percent of the thousand people
over nearly eight hundred people were for established homes, then
why did the COLP remove that fill was a twelve
month extension.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
So the whole purpose, Katie, is to try and stimulate construction,
and to do that we have home builds instead of.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
Existing getting people into their first home. So people were
buying establishment and.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
They still can't get into their first home. With the
fifty thousand I mean the fifty thousand dollars to build
your house is the best in the nation, and then
of course thirty fifty grand in their pocket. It's fifty
grand towards the build though. That's that's what you're understanding.
So there's obviously going to be more homes built. It's
great for people who want to build their home and
live in it and put down roots here in the
territory because they want them to come and stay. And

(10:33):
it's also great for our construction industry of course, which
speaks directly to the COMPSECT reports results.

Speaker 4 (10:39):
Look, sorry, a.

Speaker 5 (10:41):
Couple of things there. I'm a big supporter of stimulating
the construction industry because obviously these people live and work
here and you want to keep your builders here and
that creates a domino effect through all manner of the
economic benefits of the community. But I would like to
see the cap increased federally because that also, you know,
it helps stimulate people getting into the into the market

(11:03):
as well. I just feel that we're being disadvantaged compared
to that we're being competed where I think this place
really needs to have it, you know, an addition to
that cap. It's good scheme. Yeah, the five surround deposits
a great scheme, but I think it's not in tune
with what the price of housing is here in the
Northern real.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Estate dot com at the moment. And we've spoken about
this before. I've spoken about it quite a bit on
the show. If you go on real estate dot Com
and have a look at you know, what's available at
that price. Yeah, sure there's lots of units and lots
of townhouses, but there isn't a lot of standalone houses.
So then for a young person or whatever age you
are wanting to enter the housing market for the first time,
you know, and you're wanting to access the federal government scheme,

(11:45):
that's actually a really good scheme, you know, wanting to
access that, but not actually being able to unless you're
buy yourself a unit, and then you've got ongoing.

Speaker 4 (11:52):
Body Corp costs.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
And that might be right for some people, but not
for everybody. So I did speak to Luke Gosling about
this yesterday, Reckons. He's now written to the Housing the
federal Housing Minister. I know Ruth Palmer from the from
the Property Council.

Speaker 4 (12:07):
She's also sort of.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
You know, leveraging on their national body to try to
make some headway here because you want to see this.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Also wrote to the Housing miesses and the Prime Minister
to try and get this mean that was some months
ago when this was first talked about.

Speaker 5 (12:21):
I think if you get that cabin chriesh, I think
it's a pretty dramatic shift as well. People so well,
you know, now I can it's reachable. And people talk
about or can they manage the debt? Well, you know
most people go in with that knowledge. Yes, they can
manage the debt. That's got to be the thinking.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
And also, well are we asking the same question of
other people in other states when they're housing cabs you know,
are greater. We're not saying that they can't manage their debt.
But for us here in the Northern Territory, I'm not
sure why we need to be babysat, you know, so
I think we Yeah, I think there's definitely some movement
that needs to happen there. Hey, before we move on
and take a break, I do just want to touch

(13:01):
on the shiplift. I know that Matthew Curl has taken
to Facebook overnight saying that the Public Accounts Committee has
handed down its reporting to the Shiplift he reckons it's bad.
He said, the quote from Treasury regarding the shiplift is
there is no revenue stream to the territory government from this.
He's saying, so NT taxpayers are currently expected to be
on the hook for a figure of at least eight

(13:23):
hundred and twenty million dollars and Treasury aren't expecting it
to generate any revenue. He said, that's a pretty bad
deal to him. Now, he did say, let me be clear,
I don't blame any of the private entities involved in
the shiplift. The elected government's responsible for protecting taxpayers dollars,
not private companies. Now, look, I haven't had the opportunity

(13:45):
to go through the Public Accounts Committee what they've handed down,
but what I do know is that this has taken
so long that you know, the shiplift seems to have
taken so long it has blown out. I know that
it was never going to cost I don't think what
the former Colp government had claimed when they first made
that announcement, like it wasn't ever going to cost that

(14:05):
amount of fac.

Speaker 5 (14:06):
It was about a hundred and something mill and the
initial thinking was that okay, if the Paspali ship lift
facility in the sunny part of it is relocated out
to each point. It would open up that whole waterfront
area Fisherman's Warfare for future development into inner city housing,
office space, obviously requiring landfield. So there were some pretty

(14:28):
ambitious other plans to go with that, But yet it
seems like it just got bigger and bigger in terms.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Of the Let's speak earlier about this KD. This is
the biggest transfer of public to private wealth in the
territory's history, and it's probably the biggest infrastructure blowout in
Australia's history. It was originally signed off on behalf of
territorians by Michael Gunner. It was then varied by evil
law of the then Chief Minister at a cost of

(14:55):
an extra eight hundred and twenty million dollars, which it
was never disclosed to territorians. An absolute breach of trust
of territorians on this kind of project. And so now
we are left in a position where we have to
clean up this mess and we have no choice. It's
all contractually bound up. We have to find this money
to pay for it, which is territorial.

Speaker 4 (15:15):
There's no way I'm getting out of it, is there?
And no way far out of it.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
You know, we have got businesses who do really feel
that this is going to have a big gas.

Speaker 4 (15:23):
Right and it will.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
It will, but it's the cost of that to get
to this point is phenomenal and it was never disclosed
at the time by the then government to territorians.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Selena, do you think things could have been done differently?

Speaker 3 (15:35):
Well, I think that one hundred million that was plucked
out of the air by Adam Giles was very irresponsible
because that did Now that's the point, like people say,
should have cost this, but now it's costing X. But
I don't believe that there was any due diligence around
that particular figure. So obviously our former Labor government under
two terms supported the ship lift program. The Public Accounts

(15:56):
Committee has come back and provided the report to say that,
you know, it would be irresponsible if the government was
to pull out of that now, so to continue that
on I think it will make a huge difference for
the Northern territory. It has been very complex over the
years that I've been familiar with this project, Katie. It's
not an easy one to cipher.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
So you were in cabinet at that time though, when
even all assigned that variation then, and it was decided
not to tell Territorians about that extra eight hundred and
twenty million dollars. I mean, you're a senior minister.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
In that government. You're now a minister to Murray Claire,
and you understand commercial and confidence, But what about your
brain commercial confidence? It can be a legal process.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
It would have been a way Territorians.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
It's glad if you found a way out of being
a legal cabin What.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
About what you said in cabinet. It's about what you
spoke to Territorians about and bringing them on the journey.
I mean, like Katie said, there are businesses and people
who support the ship lift. Of course we all know it.
To get up, Murray Claire, you can communicate to Territorians
that you're about to invest.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
Remember project, when Cao was the opposition leader, she said, yeah,
we're going to tell everyone about the shiplift when we're
in government. As soon as you got into government, you went, oh,
actually no, there's commercial and confidence. I'm not really sure
that I can.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
That's a Territorian like, I get that there's commercial in confidence.
I understand that right that we're trying to look in
a commercial entity that there needs to be different elements
that maybe can't go out in public. But we are
not talking about monopoly money. We're talking about territorian's money.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
And when things are.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Blowing out, they do deserve Territorians deserve to know how
much it's blowing out and whether it is still cost effective,
cost efficient, and whether we've got contracts in place that
are actually going to mean that it is worthwhile.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Exactly why it was referred to the Public Accounts Committee
very soon after come into government. Treasurer looked at it
because that document landed on his desk after we came
to document to show all those blowouts. He referred it
to a bipartisan Public Accounts Committee of the Parliament and
the result is what the committee report now reads, which
is that that huge blowout was kept from Territorians right

(18:00):
throughout that whole.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
Process, which your government will continue to pursue. So but
we are telling Territorians exactly to continue on.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, because we've got to clean up the mess that
you left.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Selena, I mean, can we take any kind of comfort,
Marie Claire? Are you going to Is the Colpment government
going to be more open and transparent about these things,
because every time we have a new government comingto place,
they promise they're going to be and then it feels like,
you know, you get in there, you're in there for
a few months and anything.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
But well, I think Katie, we need to ensure that
Territorians come along the journey with us. We're all in
this together, we are rebuilding the economy together. And of
course there's been many examples when we have had to
tell Territorians exactly what's going on so they understand. I mean,
these Public Accounts committees are exactly that they are designed

(18:49):
so that there's a bipartisan approach. There's people from all
sides of politics that can investigate what has happened to
be able to share that information with Territorians. So those
kinds of inquiries will continue, and so.

Speaker 4 (18:59):
They I do think they're important.

Speaker 5 (19:01):
And the most common query we get is what are
we getting for our money? How did we get to
this point, how did we get into this deal? What
are we getting for that? Why did we go into
this deal? So that message hasn't been articulated in terms
of what will be the outcome for the billion dollar
dollars that we probably end up spending. So that's a message.
You know, there's obviously a reason there would be Treasury
briefing documents out there explaining, Okay, if you're going to

(19:24):
go down this path, this is what it's going to
cost you, this is what we're going to get, and
just all the ramifications. Treasury does not do briefing documents,
so they exist, they'd be there, just a matter of
find out what they say if they recommend it. They
didn't recommend the path that we've.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Taken them that we're on. We are going to have
to take a short break. You're listening to Mix one
O four nine's three sixty.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
It is the week that was.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
You are listening to the week that was in the
studio with us this morning. We've got the Attorney General Marray,
Claire Boothby, the Opposition leader Selena Yubo, and head of
News at the NT News, Gary ship Way.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Now.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
The Northern Territory Coroner has made seven recommendations following an
inquest into the death of a twenty two month old
girl who died at Humpty Doo childcare center. The coroner,
Elizabeth Armitage, found that Ebonie Thompson died from brain damage
after her neck became stuck between the gate loops while
she was trying to look over at the chickens. In

(20:18):
twenty twenty three, now the gate was in a blind
spot and there was inadequate supervision of children in the
playground with no yard checks conducted before going to lunch.
That is what the coroner's reporters said. The recommendations include
strengthening fencing standards, documenting fencing and blind spot inspections, and
a supervision audit of all childcare centers in the Northern

(20:42):
Territory Gary. I know that the NT News has run
this story, I think on the front page a couple
of times. I mean, it's it is honestly every parent's
worse night. It you know, it's it's unspeakable.

Speaker 5 (20:55):
Well, it just goes to show. I mean, in this
particular case, obviously there were some blind spots and the
child disappeared and tragically, within you know, a matter of minutes,
she lost her life. So that the audits that are
there need to be done. I mean, obviously they look
at the fencing issue that will have a significant impact
on a lot of places if they were to change that,

(21:17):
I mean, or it could be as simple as okay,
if you are in one of these have one of
these fances and going to have one of in a
pool or something, you're gonna happen when someone's not going
to be using you might be able to make modifications.
But clearly there needs to be a tighter, tighter rain
on what's happening in I think child care facilities. We've
got another story today about several child care facilities who

(21:42):
have been given a black mark for not being up
to proper standard. So that's another story that dars if
it's still has written today. So there is there is
problems out there and they need to be fixed because
this is tragic, tragic, you know, and and we've just
seen how quickly that tragic incident happened. So yeah, let's

(22:02):
hope there's some ramifications out of this and we do
get improvements, some.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Changes devastating and like you said, Katie, couldn't imagine what
the family and the fellow families and the childcare workers
and everyone in that community would be facing with the
release of the report. I think it's important, like Gary said,
that all of the recommendations are looked at, acted upon,
and I think quicker the better, because you know, again,

(22:29):
when something tragic like this happens in the Northern Territory.
We don't want to see anything like that ever repeat.
And I think it's important. I know that there's been
talk around some of the federal laws and tightening up
some of that, but there's also leavers that can be
pulled here in the Northern Territory. And I honestly don't
care whether it's the federal government, Katie, or the Northern
Territory government. If it's regulation, if it's law, needs to

(22:52):
be done, yep. This is not something that my team
will stand in the way. I will absolutely support because
it is so important for our community to have our
kids protected and supported, and for our childcare workers to
know that they're in those safe spaces and working with
those little people.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Spot on. That's good to hear too, Selena, because I
think you know, we're all parents in this room and
we've had little ones. I'm sure they've been to childcare centers.
Mine certainly did, and you just cannot imagine what that
family is going through still, I don't know if you'd
ever really get over it. So I think you know
a couple of things that obviously the Minister for Education

(23:29):
Jo Hersey did straight away jump on this and has
written to the federal minister plus all the other ministers,
and they will be looking at it from a federal
point of view. But I think we can all agree
that the stuff that has been happening, especially in this case,
is unacceptable on every level and there are things that
we can do in the Northern Territory. But the other

(23:50):
part of this is the Minister has put both the
Department and the QEC and T on notice. She is
absolutely frustrated the fact that this has come to this,
and so they all have been told they have to
step up. And then in the meantime, one of the
most important things is that the Minister Hersey is meeting
with Ebene's family and so that will mean that she

(24:14):
can discuss with them, She can hear directly from them
as to the types of things they would like to
see going forward, and that you know that will actually
they will inform the reform that we will do. And
that meeting is not very far away.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
Can okay?

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Well, I will certainly keep in contact with her office
to try and get some further update on that.

Speaker 4 (24:34):
Now, I do want to just talk.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
About another story that really got everyone going this week,
and that is Sint Phinni's. We know that Saint Phinnie's
moved from Stuart Park to Coconut Grove. That happened before
the last Northern Territory election and there was quite some
concern around that and whether it would mean that there
was anti social behavior in the area or any potential
on flow. Now we know that Vinnie's do a phenomenal job,

(24:58):
there's no doubt about that. But when austom house, when
those services were temporarily relocated to Coconut Grove last year,
I mean everybody had sort of wondered how long are
they going to stay? Well, now there has been the
application put in to have them there until September twenty
twenty nine. Now. We spoke to the Member for Fanny Bay,
Laurie Zeo. She said she's against the extension. They're in

(25:21):
Coconut Grove, and certainly from the listeners that we spoke to,
some of whom have got businesses in that area, they're
really quite worried about.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
That extension too.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
I don't know how quickly the government's able to actually
get another location sorted. I know it's something that there
was work happening under the former government as well, but
this needs to happen.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
It needed to happen last week.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, that's right, and I think Lori Zeo, you know,
being very vocal about this, which is really good to see.
I mean, the local member standing up for a community,
which I think is fantastic. And I believe she said
and I've heard from Minister Burgoyne, who's the minister in
this space, that they've been working together on this. She's
been very vocal and meeting with him. I believe that
they both actually went out and met with the community

(26:07):
a number of months ago just to hear at first
hand exactly how everyone's feeling. And so of course I
know the minister is going through that work. That application
has been received, you knows, there's many people that don't
want it there. I think was it the member for
Nightcliff that kat mcmurrah was saying she would like it
to stay there?

Speaker 4 (26:25):
I think, oh, I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, I don't watch the novels on your show or
a different show, Katie, but obviously there's mixed feelings about it.
But at the end of the day, you know, we
have a local member fighting for a community and a
minister that's willing to listen, and of course you know
that work is happening now to make sure that we
can come up with a solution that works for everyone.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
I think, well, it's interesting to hear such passion around
this because, as you've said, Katie, Vinnie's do do a
fantastic job in the service that they deliver. That site
was temporary site. Obviously it's taking longer to get a
more permanent site, which is an understanding her Minister burgoying
on the radio yesterday on another show it actually sounded

(27:07):
a bit like a terrible car salesman and haven't we
got a deal for you?

Speaker 4 (27:11):
And it was just.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Very odd in terms yeah, I don't worry, you didn't
miss much, but in terms of talking about such an
important service for some of our most vulnerable territories, and
you know, just picking up on the language from Marie Claire,
you know, these people are part of our community. So
when Lori Zeo is out there fighting for her community,
is she also fighting for everyone in the community or
just a selected amount of people in the community. So

(27:33):
we have to recognize that vulnerable people, disadvantage people, people
living in poverty are part of our community here in
the Northern Territory, and unfortunately that's the reality. So those
services do need to be able to support.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
But the problem is, and the point that she was
making is that nearby, unfortunately, there'd been an impact on businesses.
You know, there'd been car windows we got told by
one of our listeners, smashed all up the street.

Speaker 4 (27:54):
You know, there had been a number of I mean.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
That's just one example that I can think of off
the top of my head, but there'd been different instances
where locals really didn't feel as though maybe all of
the coordinated services were working together as they should be
to try to minimize any of that impact. And totally
get it, we need to make sure that there are
services for vulnerable people. But you know, do we put

(28:16):
those services in a high density residential area where we
have already got a huge amount of social housing just
up the road and you've got you know other Yeah,
like you've got you know, other concerns. I suppose that
locals are raising with that public housing and the high
level of public housing nearby, so that then you're sort of,
you know, you're lumping everything onto one community, and I

(28:40):
just don't know that that's fair.

Speaker 4 (28:41):
I don't know that that's the right way to do.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
It, and Cana I did here because I've been following
this closely for quite a few years, formally when we're
in government and obviously now in opposition and hearing the
different perspectives what's happening around that area. In particular, some
people are very happy and comfortable saying that there's no impact,
other people saying no, there is a negative impact. So
I think there needs to be that balance in being

(29:05):
able to support everyone in the community. But understanding again,
the application will go through the Development Consent Authority, it
is for another temporary tenure. I believe it's three years
this time because they are looking for that permanent site.
So if there is work that's happening under the COLPG
government to get that permanent site allocated and approved, and

(29:25):
I think that's positive. But in terms of timing, where
does that happen Otherwise, where does the service go, and
where do the vulnerable people go to collect a service,
to access a service, to be supported by a service.
So there has to be that nice balance between that,
and I think if there is the process of a
permanent site, that definitely needs to continue.

Speaker 5 (29:43):
So I think what we've seen here is the problems
we shifted from Stuart Park to Coconut Growth. It was
a serious issue in Stuell Park and the community there
obviously made it known and now we've got it in
Coconut Grove. So the problems just shifted. It needs to
be a priority of government to find a proper location
where working with everyone, all the stakeholders and get a
good location and make a priority. It can't be one

(30:05):
of these projects will when we get to we'll get
to it because it's been an ongoing issue for early
decades and people have a right to want to have
their community, you know, not being disadvantaged by antisocial behavior.
And yes, we do need to find the disadvantage people
a proper place with services to you know, to go

(30:28):
to and be be helped. So I think it has
to be a prior to government to find that location
and not just talk about Gary.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
One of the other things we've been talking about for
quite some time, particularly since the CLP came into government,
is some of the issues around our court system and
some of the delays that we've seen within our court system.
Mary Claire, I understand that you have got a bit
of an update when it comes to what some of
those numbers maybe how are things tracking.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yeah, that's right, Katie, I know, as you know your
listeners would remember, we've done a lot of work on
not just police and correct but of course courts, which
sits in the middle of that, and we need to
ensure that we have justice for victims, that all three
of those things are working as efficiently as possible. And
so the work as Attorney General that I've been doing
along with police and corrections has now seen another increase

(31:18):
in bail refusals of thirty eight percent as the last
look at that, which is a huge number, and so
that means that there's less people back out on the
streets after committing a crime to continue those crimes, and
that's good.

Speaker 4 (31:32):
Its sitting at before.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Well, we had an increase of about forty percent in
the first lot, and then thirty eight percent. I don't
actually have the numbers. That's just the percentage of the
top of my head, Katie, I don't have the numbers
in front of me. But the other thing that we
have seen continue the trend after the last data release
and then the most recent is that the number of
sentenced prisoners continues to outweigh the number of prisoners or

(31:55):
people on remand, and that's been a huge shift. It
used to be the other way around, and it was
all a really serious concern for territorians and so that
work continues. There's been that change, and of course there's
also been a reduction in the number of days that
people are waiting for their sentences, another seven percent decrease
in the last lot of data.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
So what is the average number that people are waiting
the number of days.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
It's about one hundred and thirty two days in the
local court KD, so quite a long time. It used
to be a lot higher than that and what so
that's just part of the work over the last twelve months.
But then of course next year we want to continue
that work because we're only just getting started. And what
I've found over the year is that the courts needed
a fresh set of eyes to be looking at all

(32:41):
of the different processes that happen behind the scenes. And
so we're now looking at reform to make sure that
we can find those things that take a long time,
if they're duplicated or you know, causing people to have
more interactions than they need to. Then that's what we're
going to free up in this next lot of reform
that we're doing.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
I mean, Selena and Gary, what do you make of
those numbers looking at the you know, the days that
people are waiting to go into local court one hundred
and thirty two days. I mean, it still seems like
a substantial amount of time. Like to me the fact
that we've now turned things around slightly in terms of
prisoners sentenced, there's now more of them than those on remand.

(33:22):
Do we have any of those numbers though, like how
many people are actually on remand at.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
This point, Yeah, I don't have the exact numbers of
those people. I can definitely get them to you, Katie
for your listeners, and you can read that out a
bit later. But you know, as we know, for a
number of years, those those remand numbers were looking you know,
they were they were on remand for such a long time,
and I know there was a lot of genuine concern
about that because they you know, we wanted to have
that justice for victims for a starting point, and of

(33:48):
course then being sentenced meant back then that you could
continue your or start your rehabilitation, you know, in an
environment where you're serving your sentence.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Well, and you want to make sure people aren't sitting
in the watchhouse for a long time either, you know.
So that's another factor that has been at play. But
I think the watch housers have freed up a bit
based on what Corrections had told me the last time
I spoke to them.

Speaker 4 (34:09):
That's right, Is that the case?

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah, so it's always a moving feace, Like you've basically
got people coming in and out of the watchhouse because
that's what it is. It's like a transfer station.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
If you like, it should be, but it wasn't for a.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
And so those numbers have been coming down. I don't
have the numbers off the top of my head from
Police and Corrections right now, Katie, but it's certainly with
the work that Corrections and Police have done that, you know,
it has become more like a transfer station now instead
of a romand center, which is what it was for
a number of years.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
What do you make of it, Selena? I mean, do
you think that they're good numbers? The bail refusal at
thirty eight percent? An increase of thirty eight percent? What
do you make like, what do you make of that?

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah? I think we'll obviously territories have been asking for
a bit of reprieve when it comes to safety in community.
Safety has obviously been and will con tinue to be
a huge priority for territories, and so it should. I
think the cost obviously of whether someone's on remand or
whether they've been sentenced, So I think and Marie Claire
would be able to give us the exact figure, But

(35:11):
it's over four hundred dollars per day. So we're talking
about someone who's waiting to be sentenced for what one
hundred and thirty two was it, Yeah, one hundred and
thirty three thirty two days. On average, it's a cost
for that one individual about four hundred plus per day,
So that that obviously actually takes away for what money
could be invested into justice ree investment into those rehab programs.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
That's why we're looking to bring it down, and that's
why you know, it has been coming down under the
changes we've made, and we've never shied away from the
fact that there is so much more work to do,
and we really are.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
Just last week, Katie, we heard from I think it
was an ABC special report around you ten of the
eleven rehab programs that are focused on behavior reoffending, reducing
that reoffending behavior, particularly for men in our correction centers,
had not been accessed or had been canceled, So there's
more people going to our prison, less people accessing those

(36:02):
rehab data. You've got a really good chance. With me
not interrupting you, I'd like.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
I don't have to correct it record though that was
from a previous period Commission.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
We're talking about the concept, right, You're talking about reducing
remand days, but also having more people in prison. What
happens when people do get out of prison. That's the
big question because at the moment, that's where I feel
the CEOP is dropping the ball. They don't have a
plan around how do we make our community safe once
people are released, Because if people aren't accessing those rehab programs,
if they're not changing their behavior, Katie, they're coming out

(36:35):
of prison with the exact same behavior, and chances are
within two years, that's what the stats show. Within two
years that I hate, but that reoffending behavior reoccurs and
then people go back in the system. So it's unfortunately
a revolving doors. So more in that rehab space to
be able to show that not just people are facing
the consequence for their wrongdoing. That has to happen, but

(36:57):
what happens to be able to support and that's what
the corrections departments for correct ability, that's the whole name
of that department. Otherwise, change the name, get rid of
the name. Because the idea of being able to have
justice reinvestments so you have people contributing to our community
in a positive way and not in the negative way
that they found themselves in or that they you know,
they led themselves into a situation, but being able to

(37:20):
actually have a system that provides that not just the
recourse back to society, but also how do we make
our community safer in the long run. That's really what
we're question.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
I might see whether we can get commission of Ali
on the show next week as well, to try and
find out a bit more about some of those programs.

Speaker 5 (37:39):
Because those rehab programs are a very important part of
a person coming out of a corrections facility a management
plan hopefully keep their life on track. So I'd like
to see what those current plan, those current management plans are,
because obviously I would assume they're part of what was
previously in place. They would expected've changed too dramatically in

(38:01):
the twelve months that were that the government's been there.
So I just management, management plans and rehab plans are
such an important part of making sure that these people
that come out don't go back in. And in terms
of people being incarceratedble you know, I think the majority
of the public out there doesn't have too much sympathy
in that space because it's a public safety issue. But certainly, yeah,

(38:25):
you can't have one without the other. You've got to
have three management plans and management plans that you can
do kpies on and what's working and what you ssuld
because you don't just throw money at these plans. You've
got to make sure that those plans are getting results.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
What I do okay to is that the number of
programs in like for rehab in prisons across a number
of areas has increased since labors in government under our government,
and that is how many. I don't have the numbers
on me again, I'll get them through. I'll have some
other numbers for you in a second. But the fact
that we're doing more rehab in prisons now compared to

(39:03):
what it used to be, as well as got more
numbers in the prisons and obviously we've been through that
twelve months of juggling how we're going to get the
community to be safer and those people off the streets,
and so really that the start there is a really
good result, and like I keep saying, we've got so
much more weight to do, but I think we're on
the right track.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
We're going to take a really quick break. You are
listening to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty d
is the week that was. Oh, there's still plenty to discuss.
We'll see how much we can get through. If you've
just joined us. Marie Clair Booth, b selena Ubo and
Gary Shipway in the studio with us now. Yesterday we
did speak about the fact that in Melbourne, Saint Vincent
Hospital is facing criticism over a new policy giving Aboriginal

(39:42):
and Torres Straight Island of patients priority treatment in its
emergency department, guaranteeing that they're seen within thirty minutes of arrival.

Speaker 4 (39:51):
Now.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
Supporters say it's a vital step to close the health
gap and improve outcomes for First Nations people, but some
Indigenous leaders, including Warren mut Dean, slammed it as an
idiot policy.

Speaker 4 (40:02):
Arguing that medical care should be based on need, not race.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Now, the Chief Minister called into the show yesterday and
said this wouldn't be happening in the Northern Territory, that
you would not be receiving treatment based on your race,
it would be based on your need, and that obviously
patients would be triaged in our emergency ward.

Speaker 4 (40:22):
Now, some listeners called.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
In and sort of disagreed or text in saying that
they feel as though there is already a policy like
this in place in the Northern Territory. I mean, first off,
what is everybody's reaction. Do you think that this is
something that should be happening in the Northern Territory.

Speaker 5 (40:37):
I've never seen that happen here. I had the occasion
that with my kids growing up, and I had we've
broken arms in that and you have to take your
kids to emergency And I'm seriously, I've never seen that
happen here. And you know, and I think it's a
recipe for resentment. It wouldn't matter if anyone gets in
ahead of the queue. Yeah, it doesn't matter you know

(40:57):
which nationality you are or I think that's that's create
a problem in the Victoria. I've never seen it happen here.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Look for me, I think to myself, if I go
into emergency with a broken leg and somebody comes in
who's having a heart attack, I don't care where they
come from. They deserve to go in before me. You know,
if I went in with my nephew who's Aboriginal, and
we both had broken legs, I'm buddy twenty years older
than him, i better get to go in before him
because I've got, you know, higher blood pressure, and I've
got other things you know, wrong with me. He's a

(41:25):
you know, a young, healthy Indigenous man. But so I
think that that's I don't like. I just feel as
though it will create a divide within a community where
I don't I I don't think we are divided in
that way. I think we've got some amazing Aboriginal health
services that do a bloody incredible job. I do understand
that we've got Indigenous people in the Northern Territory. We've

(41:47):
got some health issues that are you know, that are
much more prevalent here in the Northern Territory within our
indigenous community that we need work on. And we've got
some health workers, incredible allied health workers who are working
in this space and have been for a long time.
I just don't know that you know that. I don't

(42:09):
believe that this is the right step across Australia. I
think that we you know, when you're talking about an
emergency ward, I believe it should be you are triaged
based on your level of need at that point in time.

Speaker 5 (42:22):
Would you be putting health official health medical professionals in
an untenable situation where they've got to you know, they've
got to make a decision there and then who needs
to be who they need to see, who's the most
urgent case? And surely you know that's that should be
left to them to decide that's.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Right, not policy on ideology or whatever it might be
that Victoria are doing. I think you're right, Katie. Like
the health professionals, they know whether someone is more important
and more urgent than someone else that has to be
treated the most far the most quick right and I
think that to be able to say in Victoria you
also have to consider these other factors before you make

(42:58):
that medical decision. That's just putting them in a really
unfair situation.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
Makes it tough for the health workers.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
Selena, what's your take yeah, Katie, I don't think this
is a conversation that's relevant for the Northern Territory because
our health professionals are just that, they're professionals. They have
the skills, they have the training, they have the knowledge
here in the territory's context to do exactly what everyone's
just said this morning. It's to triage and to treat
territorians or visitors to the territory based on what their
health needs are. So I think that, you know, if

(43:25):
that's in a frenzy down there in the East Coast,
I just think we're better off looking and supporting our
health professionals here because they do a bloody good job
day in and day out, and I know they'll continue
to do that. So I don't think it's it's relevant
at all here in the territory because they already do
a bloody fantastic.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Maybe some of the lad we live here, maybe, yeah, exactly, Katy,
I don't like that policy, which I'm sure many don't
come into the territory. We've got plenty of work and
it's a great place to live.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Spot On, we'll take a really quick break. You are
listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
It is the week that was. If you've just.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Joined us in the studio, will you've missed out because
we've got in the studio Marie Claire Booby, the Attorney Nor,
we've got the opposition leader, Selena Ubo, and the head
of news at the ter News, Gary ship Bay. Now,
before we wrap up, Murray Claire, I've got a bone
to pick with you. It's the luxA Festival. Obviously, when
is someone going to make a bib fortal.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Well, I've got to say I went down to the Gully,
which is aquisine or fish feeding as we all know
it growing up in the territory, and they had made
a luxA with cut up noodles, so.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
You didn't have to like it everywhere.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
I thought, surely that's going to be a crowd player
the Queen's way of eating.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
You were going to say they make the luxe with
the fish, You're not having luxA.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Fish anyway. The LuxI Festival is one.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
It is night and so a change of location, change
of venue.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah, we've moved down to the waterfront, more parking. Everyone
loves down there and yeah, there's been something like one
hundred and twenty three entrance people have been talking about
it all awesome. Yeah, and of course, you know, big competition.
There's a lot of rivalry there. I've had a few
taste sessions myself and everyone's like, what about us? What
about us? So yeah, tasting a lot of lucks.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
I love a good luxA.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
They're so good.

Speaker 5 (45:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:20):
Where's your favorite?

Speaker 6 (45:21):
Gary?

Speaker 5 (45:21):
I liked her prep? Oh yeah, nice morning.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
What about there's some good ones in town. There's a
new one now, yeah, which is really awesome. I think
we won the regional last year, yeah, which is pretty awesome.
So don't want to give too many secrets.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
No, and I was going to say, Mary Claire, I
don't think you're allowed to have a favorite when you're
the minister that I oversees that festival.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
No, it's highly competitive.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Just taking you to the parliamentary public, that's a month.
But I do think someone needs to create a bit
just before I wrap up, because you always end up
staining your shirt. So if someone can do that for
next year.

Speaker 4 (45:55):
It's going to be a good IDEA.

Speaker 5 (45:57):
Dark blue or a black shirtwhere and white.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
It's very important.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
On that note, we better wrap up.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
It's been great to have you all in the studio
and no doubt everybody heading to the luxA Festival on
the weekend. Gary Shipway, head of News at the NT News,
lovely to have you on the studiod.

Speaker 5 (46:12):
To me, I want to say Crystal h Hello, Yes, yeah,
photo Katie.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
Yeah we will.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
We'll get Crystal in our photo this morning. Selina you
by the Opposition leader. Thank you so much for your
time this morning.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
Thank you, Katie.

Speaker 6 (46:27):
And just a reminder, it's World Teacher's Day. Please get
out and congratulate all the teachers and the staff in
our schools across the NT. They do a phenomenal job
for our kids and today is their special day.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Unfortunately hijacked by Halloween, but please don't.

Speaker 4 (46:40):
Forget our teachers today and we'll teachers on and.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
Marie Claire Boothy, the Attorney General, thank you for your
time this morning.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Thank you, and happy will Teachers Day and of course
happy last day as well to Crystal and yeah very
much looking forward to getting out on the weekend to
the lux of festivals. They come on down to the waterfront.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Should be plenty of fun. Thank you all so much.
You are listening to Mix one O four nine.

Speaker 4 (47:01):
That was the week that was