The Week That Was - 3rd October 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for the week that was.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
And in the studio this morning, we've got head of
News at the NT News, Gary Shipway.

Speaker 3 (00:06):
Good morning to you, morning, Katy.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Good to have you on the show.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
We've got the Minister for Youth, Seniors, People, Sport and Culture,
Jensen Charles, Good morning, Jensen.

Speaker 4 (00:16):
Good morning, good morning to your listeners.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Good to have you in the studio. And then of
course we have got the opposition leader Selena you bye.
Good morning to you, Selena.

Speaker 5 (00:24):
Good morning Katie, and shout out to the ktown. I
hope everyone's staying cool.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
I was gonna say forty degrees. I mean it's warm
for us thirty five in Darwin, but forty degrees it's
going to be a scorcher. It's definitely not the dry
season anymore.

Speaker 6 (00:38):
Is it good swimming weather? Is it is?

Speaker 5 (00:41):
Now?

Speaker 2 (00:42):
There's a lot happening. I say that every week. But
we have learned overnight that the Northern Territory Police report
has come through, so former Northern Territory Police Commissioner Michael
Murphy has been cleared of any legal wrongdoing over a
series of senior appointments made during his time in charge. Now,
as we know this review was ordered by the Chief

(01:04):
Minister Leofanocchiaro. It looked into and was mainly sort of
put together to look into the twenty eight promotions made
under Michael Murphy's leadership, and the report, which was led
by Acting Justice Alan Blow, found all appointees were suitably
qualified and that Murphy did not act unlawfully. However, it
has raised serious concerns about the current promotions process. Justice

(01:28):
Blow described the system as outdated and open to perceived favoritism,
bias and unmanaged conflicts of interest. So the review sets
out six recommendations, including that police introduced compulsory conflict of
interest forms for those involved in selection processes. He also
recommended a major overhaul, including using external recruitment experts for

(01:52):
senior roles, to restore trust in how police leaders are chosen. Now,
as we know, Michael Murphy's contract was terminal earlier this
year after the IKAC found that he'd failed to properly
manage a conflict of interest when promoting a close friend. Now,
while that finding led to political pressure, it stopped short
of declaring his actions illegal. And I guess we sort

(02:14):
of you know, this was more looking into, like I
touched on those other appointments, those other appointments that had
happened under his leadership. I guess we've all sort of
had a few hours to have a bit of a
look through what's been released. My understanding is that that
full report is expected to be tabled in Parliament later
this month. But I've got to tell you, you know, some

(02:36):
of this stuff when it comes to conflict of interest,
I'm sort of surprised that there aren't more stringent processes.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Already in place.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
I mean, for you Jensen, as a minister, do you
think that this is something that needs to sort of
be looked at right across the public service to ensure
that we're not seeing any conflicts.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
Thanks goodness. The one thing that specifically mentioned in the
report is it on when it comes to the police
recruitment that is not subject to the public similar to
the public service or the OCP things in place, and
it clearly shows and I think there are recommendations for
the government to consider, and now it's a time for
the government to go through the recommendations and come back
to the people and saying about like a thing, how

(03:16):
we want to change this. And you're only clearly given
like a clear outline on how the enquiry has happened,
and they just need to add that like this was
something asked by the Anti Police Association and that's when
the Chief Minister asks Justice Blow to do this inquiry.
And we got six recommendations in front of us. And

(03:36):
also it's clearly shows about like the way some significant
changes that need to happen in the police recruitment process
and especially when it comes to the conflict.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
I mean does the government plan to actually implement these
six recommendations or is there a bit of time needed
to go through them all.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
So the report was received by the Acting Chief Minister,
yes today and then put it out within a few
hours of him receiving the report. So it's just within
would said, like it's not even turny four hours or
the government has to go through the recommendations and again
like look onto other aspects that's going to be looked
into as well.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
I mean, what do you make of it? Selena? It
obviously needed to happen.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
We needed to make sure that there is this confidence
within the Northern Territory Police Force that positions have been
filled with people who actually deserve them. We know that
the current acting Commissioner Martin Doll had previously rejected calls
to revisit all past appointments, including his own, Alan Blow,
saying the qualifications and experience of those appointed to senior

(04:34):
roles revealed every one of them had sufficient merit to
be appointed to the relevant rank, though he was unable
to determine if they were the best person for the job.

Speaker 5 (04:45):
Yeah, Kaie, I think this highlights you know, I always
say the territory is connected by two degrees of separation,
not six. So when it comes to appointments, and particularly
high level appointments and in the public service, you know,
there's a chance that if you don't know someone, someone
you know knows them.

Speaker 6 (05:00):
So that needs to be managed. Here in the.

Speaker 5 (05:02):
Territory a small jurisdiction, very close knit community, very connected community.
So when it comes to those leadership roles, those executive
roles in the public service, and particularly in this case
with police, it does need to be managed.

Speaker 6 (05:15):
So I'll be interested.

Speaker 5 (05:16):
I really do hope the COLP government does their work
quickly when they look at reviewing these recommendations. I'm doing
a bit of homework today fresh back from leave Katie,
to look at that report and what's been publicly released.

Speaker 6 (05:28):
Obviously, if there's.

Speaker 5 (05:28):
More to come in Parliament in the next couple of weeks,
we'll be able to be privy to make full comment
on that when we get some more information. But when
it comes to providing certainty to police, I know this
has been unfortunately a huge morale issue, a big cloud
over police around how this is managed. But then we've
got so many of those executive roles a leadership in

(05:50):
police that are still acting, so be great to see
the seal people put their skates on and actually get
some appointments going provide some certainty in the leadership for
police so our police can get on with the job
and not feel like they're not being supported in those
full time roles. A lot of them are acting at
the moment, and it's not to diminish the great work
that our acting Commissioner and assistant commissioners are doing, but

(06:11):
police do want to see that certainty and we hope
that the CLP gets the skates on and provides them
with that.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Okay, I think what the report does show is that
and the system of recruitment under which the former Commissioner
presided over was seriously flawed and it may well be
that that system has existed with previous police commissioners. So
it's clear that you can't sit on a panel if
someone who's you're interviewing is a close friend. I mean,

(06:38):
that doesn't pass the pub test.

Speaker 6 (06:39):
And I think this report is.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
Confirmed that that system needs change. I mean there were
twenty eight appointments, and when you read more into that report, yes,
the commission couldn't determine whether or not they Yes, as
far as I could see, they will qualify. But he
couldn't determine that the other people more qualifying. So the
whole the whole system needs an overhaul. And saying it
into Murphy, but if you look back, it probably presides

(07:04):
this probably took place over this recruitment process under previous commissioner.
So I think with Murphy, though his fate was sealed
when the police union said they lost confidence the rank
and file had lost confidence in their police commissioner. I
think that's the point that his fate was sealed, not
whether the Chief Minister dismissed him. His friend was signed
sealed in deliverab.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Absolutely, to lead the Northern Territory Police Force, you absolutely
need the confidence of those members you know, look, I
think it's going to be really interesting, I guess to
see what plays out next, just how quickly the Northern
Territory government does act on these recommendations. And as you
touched on there as well, selenas some of those acting positions,
and we know that Martin Dole is sitting in there

(07:46):
as the Northern Territory Police Commissioner at this point in time,
the acting Northern Territory Police Commissioner. I've got to say,
I do think things seemed to be from the outside
looking in, seemed to be running quite smoothly. But obviously,
you know, these different acting positions need to be filled
with permanent roles and it does need to happen fairly quickly,
and we need to make sure that, you know, the

(08:06):
Northern Territory Police are able to operate with the you know,
with the confidence in their leadership.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
I think that's absolutely correct. And it's also not only
the police, but also the public has to have confidence
in their police force, because once you lose the trust
to the public, then you have a serious reputational problem.
So and it shows that people tend to be cynical
about police and unfairly unfairly because these guys work their
butts off and they do a great job for territories.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
Absolutely, So you just need to add that when it
comes to this acting roles, because we were having this
inquiry for the last six months, so we need to
be like there was like a reason why they were
like many positions acting as well, especially when the recruitment
process was christened by the Association. So we need to
make sure like a thing we have done this report

(08:53):
considered the recommendation. So we've got like a full report
done by the Justice Blowner. So now we've got the
recommendations as well. So now it like the opportunity for
the Police Minister to go ahead and then work with
the current acting Commissioner and then make sure that I
think the recruitment process is going to be getting.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Done well, it's really the only way I think if
that recruitment process follows the recommendations that are made. If
the new recruitment process does follow the recommendations that are made,
you would think that that is really the only way
to provide the public and indeed the force with the
confidence that we've just spoken about.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
So time will tell.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
As we've all agreed, I think it needs to happen
sooner rather than later. We can't be mucking around with
this kind of thing. But I guess we have seen
that the government does seem fairly prepared to act on
things quickly. So time will tell. I think we've got
one more two week sitting.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Block, do we for this year? Maybe a little bit
one or two.

Speaker 6 (09:45):
Double this month, can in October and a single in November.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, right, So still a bit of time to go,
a bit of time to go now while we're still
sort of in the space of some of what we
are dealing with when it comes to well, I guess
it's a bit outside what we're dealing with from a
pol perspective, but we know that the OC spray well,
there's been continued discussion.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
About it this week.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Last week, on the week that was, we'd spoken about
it following an incident that had occurred with a young
person allegedly buying OC spray l getting his hands on
it from somewhere else unlawfully. Well, this week, a twenty
six year old woman was arrested after allegedly spraying a
twenty one year old patron with her personal OC spray
outside a nightclub in the early hours of Sunday or

(10:28):
at that nightclub in the early hours of Sunday. Now
it happened on Sunday morning, just after four o'clock in
the morning. Nothing good happens, I've got to say after
four o'clock in the.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
Morning, well not much.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
I mean, I'm usually waking up at four point thirty
in the morning, so I guess it's a reverse situation
for me. But in terms of this OC spray, now
it's alleged that the twenty six year old has deployed
the OC spray at the twenty one year old. The
twenty one year old's thrown a barstool at the twenty
six year old allegedly. Now, the incidents have alarmed the

(11:01):
United Workers' Union and Justice not Jails, who are calling
on the Northern Territory government to halt the twelve month
trial allowing legal purchase and carriage of OC spray. Look,
we've spoken about this quite a bit over the last
couple of weeks on this show, and the large majority
of people do not want to see the trial halted.

(11:21):
In fact, they are saying, just because there's behavior of
some that are doing the wrong thing doesn't mean that.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
It should stop all together.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
But nonetheless the union and indeed Justice not jails have
raised some fairly serious concerns in this space. I mean, Selena,
do you think it needs to be halted or do
you think we need to.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Get through the twelve month trial see how it goes.

Speaker 5 (11:43):
Yeah, Katie, My question for Jensen and the COLP government
is more around what type of process are the government
undertaking during the trial? So are they meeting with the
unions to get this type of feedback, particularly when we
look at the example of the security guards and their
workplace health and safety. Are they going out and they
documenting not just the numbers, which we know that they've

(12:06):
been spooking multiple times about purchases, but how is the
trial actually looking at the pros and the cons I
have none of that detail. I have no idea if
that's what the government is even doing. So it'd be
great to hear from Jinsen his team is what is
this twelve month trial looking like from the government's perspective,
what's the pros, what's the cons and what will happen

(12:27):
after the twelve month per idients.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
So, when it comes to the CLP government, the community's
safety is our number one priority. And we have introduced
the or His Prayers another tool for the Territorians to
have if they want to use. So when it comes
to this particular incident, so it's clearly says that this
pray is not supposed to be used in a licensed premises.
So it's up to the police to deal with that matter.

(12:50):
And there was like around one thousand and Founder or
His Prayer has been sold and this is like one
incident and the previous incident that you quoted us. From
my understanding, it's an illegal one, not.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Illegal or space legally purchased here in the North.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
Say, when it comes to the question from the position leader,
I would say, like I think there are clear process
in place, but it's only like a few weeks, probably
five weeks since we started this trial, so it's too
early to go into any of those reviews. And I
would say like when it comes to three months or
six months, you'll be able to get some feedback about
like how it's going to work, because we want to
work with the community, which includes the workers, because we

(13:29):
make sure, like a think there are more safety in
place for the workers as well, and that's what we
want to make sure. And go ahead and do it.

Speaker 5 (13:36):
And Jinsen, is there like a community safety framework that
the government's like developed. Is there a team in one
of your departments that's following this and inputting data so
you know, every quarter you guys are getting an update
to provide the community what's working, what's not working, what
you'll reconsider, Like I'm not asking for a review five
weeks in of course that's too short of a time,

(13:56):
but is there a framework around community safety that is
going to be benched mark for this trial or is
being benchmark for this trial?

Speaker 4 (14:03):
So I cannot give any specific answer to that particular question,
but I'll like, as we even mentioned earlier, we've got
like a sitting's coming in like next two weeks time,
So this is something that you can raise to the
police minister and then I'm sure like that will be
un searched and we'll give like a more confidence your
response because that's a portfolio that's not sitting with me.

Speaker 6 (14:20):
Okay, I mean, what do you make of it?

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Gary? It's been an interesting one.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Well, I think in this case, as you said earlier,
you know, nothing good happens at that time of the morning,
and if the allegation so, well, just qualify this. I've
had other people come up and say, well, you know,
it could have been a glassing. You know, they've gone
the what could have happened if I had been you know,
But look, in terms of the allegations, if they're proven correct,

(14:44):
a person's broken the law and they'll be subject to
the applications of that law. So but as I say,
people I've spoken to you said, well, it could have
been worse if that's the case.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
So well, look I went so far earlier in the
week as to say, oh we gon a band machetes,
so we got a band knives? Are we're going to
get rid of, you know, everything else that can be
used as a weapon. And I understand the argument that
you know that people are saying, we don't want more
weapons out on our streets. I understand, you know, the
discussion behind it. But like I've spoken at length about this,

(15:17):
and I've got real issue with, you know, seniors in
our community feeling like they have no means to be
able to protect themselves when they're out for a walk,
or no means to be able to protect themselves in
their own home if somebody gets in, which is why
I am somebody who said, well, I don't have an
issue with the OC spray rolling out. I haven't gone
and purchased any myself. Will I yeah, I probably will,

(15:40):
I might.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
I'll see how I go.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
I've spoken to a number of people who are waiting
to get there. It's sold out, so the number of people,
and these are females who are waiting to get it,
and they're on a wait list. So and the thing
you've got to understand, this is not the full blown
police capskin spray. You know, we've seen police just recently,
we had the video of the fights that were taking
place in the city and police had to come in

(16:03):
and break it up, and it was it was police
capskin spray, which is a much higher grade of capskin spray.
So this level of spray that is available is nowhere
near the high grade for quality you know, that's used
by police. So it's not it's not going to cause
the same problems.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
I do wonder though, whether there does need to be
some training or some safeguards in place for those that
are working within those pubs and clubs should somebody deploy it.
And it does sound as though in this situation, well
in both situations, in fact, the security have done what's
required in terms of minimizing the impact on you know,
on everybody within the area. But I do wonder, you know,

(16:44):
whether there does just need to be a little bit
more sort of you know, some safeguards for them.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
I suppose.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
I think it's a valid point that the unions have raised.
If there's no proper training happening, then it needs it
needs to happen. That's pretty simple process and I can't
see that being an impost on anyone. I think that's
it's a common sense you quest, and I.

Speaker 5 (17:01):
Just yeah, I hope that the government is going to
take on some of that feedback.

Speaker 6 (17:05):
Are they meeting with the unions, Are they.

Speaker 5 (17:07):
Meeting with people who are working in security to get
that feedback again, feeding into what's the constructive look at
eventually the twelve month trial and what sort of processes
will the government undertake. So if there's a framework, if
there's a proper process to review to hear the feedback
positive and negative, I think then you know, that gives
us a bit more certainty that the government's actually looking

(17:29):
at not just anecdotal evidence, but you know, a wider
range of information and feedback from across the actually and
across the industry as well.

Speaker 6 (17:36):
Who's actually evident like that?

Speaker 4 (17:38):
So, Katie, I just wanted to add like I was
just doing like bittle search and I found that there
is like a or see Spray public feedback survey and
I'll see spray. Yeah, there is a survey all points,
so that are an opportunity.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Provide their feedback.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
All right, Well, take a really quick break. You are
listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty. When
we come back, I'm keen to discuss the change which
are set to come into place, or certainly the legislation
around voluntary assisted dying. Well, if you have just joined
us in the studio this morning, we've got Gary Shipway,
We've got Jinsen Charles, and we've got Selena Yubo. Now,

(18:13):
earlier in the week we spoke quite extensively to Andrew
Denton from go Gently about voluntary assisted dying in the
Northern Territory. Then well we learned a little later this
week that the Northern Territory government is going to begin
drafting voluntary assisted dying laws following a parliamentary committee's recommendation
in favor of legal reform. We know the acting Chief

(18:36):
Minister Jared Mayley confirmed the move after the Legal and
Constitutional Affairs Committee tabled its final report this week. The
Attorney General has confirmed, we'll confirmed yesterday that members will
be allowed a conscience vote on the draft Voluntary Assisted
Dying Bill, due to be presented early next year. Now

(18:56):
that report that was handed down, and we're actually going
to be catching up with t Hansel Rahman after ten o'clock,
I should say this morning. But the report that was
handed down this week includes eighty six recommendations and largely
mirror's laws already in place across other Australian states and
the Act. Now, I've spoken very extensively about this and

(19:17):
about my view, so I might give everybody else the
opportunity to do so. I mean to me, it's a
long time coming, Jinson, you know. Can we expect this
to be a fair discussion and for Territorians to actually
end up with the same rights as everybody else in Australia.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
Okatye. So the report is table now, sorry that it's completed,
and it's going to do a table on the first
day of the setting. That's what I've been told, and
that means like there will be a discussion on the report,
and the Acting Chief Minister clearly mentioned about like what's
intention of the government that Tony General is currently working
on drafting the legislation with the eleven Department, and we

(19:57):
make sure that it's going to be discussed and debated
as a bill, and we are hoping that that's going
to happen like early next year or by mid next year,
because it needs to go through that process, like when
it comes to like my electric outseid, Like that's a
conversation that I've been having on door knocking for the
last few months since this process has started. So I

(20:17):
will continue to do that because my vote will be
based on and what.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Are people saying to you in your electrode.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
So there are mixed views about like that because it's
a sensitive and there are religious componed and other factors
as well, so that's always a mixed and it's sometimes
for people to difficult to respond as well. So I
have seen that difficulty in people's faces when I ask
that question because they're not prepared it. Even though there
are a lot of discussions happening, there are still people
out there who are not made a decision on it.

(20:43):
So I will keep continue and communicating and I'm sure
like there will be at least a few more months
for me to continue and my intention is to reach
out to as many people in Sanderism and to take
that view to the Parlement.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
And will your decision then be made on your own
personal view or will it be made on the view
of your constituents And do you feel that other members
of the COLP government, how you know, will they be
doing the same.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
So it's clear then even before the election that we
are merited clear that it's going to be a conscience
watch and that's going to be my watch on the
Parliament will be a view of the members of the
community that ampsinde.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
And I think that's an important point for any politician.
You know, you've got to it's got to be based
on what you've got from your community. You can't just
go and make a decision on behalf of the community
without actually consulting them. But I think one of the
I like, I think the Constitutional Affairs Committe's done a
great job and it's been obviously bipartisan, but a couple
of things insiny you probably have something to say on

(21:41):
this is and which is good. I mean the change
embedding cultural safety as a guiding principle in the bad legislation,
that's really important. And then respecting a person's choice to
voluntary include other people in decision making about the end
of life choices. That's equally as important. And you've had
this week it's in international seniors. Ye we and they

(22:04):
prevent them. It's very much about dying well, and that's
important message from our seniors. There's a lot of debate
going out there, but certainly from an indigenous point of view,
that cultural aspect is so important that and it's going
to be obviously a job for you and other people
living in the remote areas to get out there and
communicate it. How hard is it out there? Are you

(22:25):
finding it's an easy job and not an easy job
to communicate this sort of message.

Speaker 6 (22:29):
Well, it's definitely a sensitive manner. We know that.

Speaker 5 (22:32):
And when we talk about what Territorians are missing out on,
ultimately it's the same right as every other Australian currently has.
Every other jurisdiction has voluntary assisted dying legislation. The Northern
Territory was the first in the world in nineteen ninety five.
That was taken away ninety ninety Sepry nineteen ninety seven
and we've been lagging. So why has it taken so long?

(22:55):
Obviously there was a band with the territory rights last
term when Labor was in government.

Speaker 6 (23:01):
We fought really hard.

Speaker 5 (23:02):
And a credit to the four federal members and there
was the former CLP Senator Sam McMahon who joined forces
with the three Labor federal members and really focused on
restoring territory rights for the Act and of course for
us in the Northern Territory.

Speaker 6 (23:19):
That was the first big step.

Speaker 5 (23:21):
I worked with the counterpart at the time, which was
Tara Chain from the Act, the Attorney General for Canberra
around supporting from the two territories, and I think that
was a really good first step to restoring territory rights
when it comes to voluntary assisted dying. Now you know
the government's undergone another process to tell us what we

(23:42):
already knew, which was, you know, territorians want that right,
they want that choice.

Speaker 6 (23:46):
It'll be up.

Speaker 5 (23:47):
It's a very sensitive manner, it needs to be dealt
with respect, but overwhelmingly Territorians are speaking about the choice
rather than not having a choice.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
How have you found the having seen the review, You're
happy with the review.

Speaker 5 (24:01):
I think the committee's done a fantastic job. Duran Young,
my deputy, has been on that and I've seen a
huge volume of work and you know Tanzla's the chair.
A huge volume of work in a very short amount
of time with limited resources. But I think you know
some of the quotes that you read out Gary, with
the capturing of some of those cultural elements, that's really important.

(24:21):
A third of the Northern Territory's population are Aboriginal territory
and so I think that really needs to be embedded
in whatever the draft legislation is that the CLP is
looking at our territory. Labor Opposition will be making sure
the government does keep its word and keep it to
account when it comes to delivering on this draft legislation.
And ultimately, as we know Katie, matters of life and

(24:42):
death in Parliament are considered as a conscience vote. So
we very much want to make sure that this is
a fulsome process that the government undertakes. It doesn't drag
its feet, Katie. We've got three more years left of
the CLP and government. We want to make sure that
they don't drag and lag and take their time and
fluff with this one.

Speaker 6 (25:01):
You're important for territorials and politicians, and I.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Think sometimes people don't realize just how important it is
unless you've got a loved one who is dying, who
is suffering from a terminal illness. And I know that
advocates obviously say that the reforms are long overdue, but
I also know that there are opponents, including the Australian
Christian Lobby Group, who've labeled the proposal reckless. They're calling
for stronger investment in palliative care and mental health services instead. Now, look,

(25:27):
in my opinion, it is the right move.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
It's a move for those.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Suffering from terminal illness. You know, you have to be
dying is let's be really blunt about it. You've got
to be suffering from terminal illness to have to access
voluntary assisted dying. So I would certainly encourage all of
our listeners to contact your local member. As we've discussed,
it is going to be a conscience vote. It is

(25:51):
going to be a vote that our local members are
going to have to get into Parliament and determine which
way they vote. And I think it's incredibly important that
each and every one of you listening this morning, if
it's something that you feel passionately about that you do indeed,
contact your local member and let them know why if
you have got a personal story where you've seen your

(26:11):
loved one suffer or you know, maybe you just want
them to have that choice.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Because I want to point out.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
As well that our palliative care here in the Northern
Territory actually do an incredible job. To anybody who's you know,
who has been there when your loved one is dying,
you know that the palliative cares team do an incredible
job and they are caring at the most difficult time
of your life. They try to make it as pain

(26:37):
free as possible. But for some people they are suffering
to the point where they want that option. And who
am I to take that choice away from somebody who's dying,
is what I would say.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah, and it's interesting also that in the recommendations there
is recommended NOLN charity government developed a penalative care strategy
so that answers the question for the Christian lobby. I
don't think it's reckless, that's just a fear mongering they did.
They do raise an important point, which is what we've
already touched on, is the cultural aspect, and I know

(27:08):
in ninety five, I was here in ninety five working
for the government those days and all part of that
whole process what took place, and that was that was
the most significant issue on the night to vote. It
was a major concern because of this this uncertainty in
the remote communities about you know, going to town and
you don't go back go home, you know. So that

(27:29):
was and that's the that's the that's the part that
I think there has to get through that messaging and
communication is so important because you know it is it
is important. These guys have done a great job.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
So Kety, you just need to add that, like one
of the feedbacks that were to see was a board
like when it comes to the previous report, there is
not much consultation happened in the remote communities and that's
why we have done this. And I think the five
members of the committee, I'm sure like Tanzil will be
able to talk in detail when he's here, but they
have done a really good job and they make sure
like they've ended to the communities, listen to the people

(28:00):
and took the feedback back to the Parliament and we
will be able to debate on the report in the
next few days.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Well, look, we'll keep it very close on things. We're
going to take a really quick break. You are listening
to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
It is the week that was.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
Well, you are listening to the week that was in
the studio this morning, we've got Selena Hubo, we've got
Jinsen Charles and we've got Gary Shipway. Now we've spoken
quite extensively this week on the show about the changes
when it comes to our first home buys or first
four first time buyers, I should say because from this
week it has become easier for Australians to buy their

(28:33):
first time So as of the first of October, major
changes to the federal first Home Guarantee scheme mean biers
no longer facing come caps and there are now unlimited
places available. But property price limits have been lifted in
some other states, but here.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
In the Northern Territory.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
So essentially you just need that five percent deposit without
paying lender's mortgage insurance is my understanding. But the government,
you know, I guess the federal government's doing what they
can to try to get people into their first homes.
But here in the Northern Territory. We spoke to experts,
property experts earlier this week as well as the Northern
Territory Property Council, local real estate agents and also brokers

(29:14):
about the fact that the price cap of six hundred
thousand dollars for Darwin is really making it difficult for
anybody to actually be able to access this scheme. We
know the Northern Territory governments now come out and they're
calling for it to be increased to eight hundred and
fifty thousand dollars, in line with the average increase of
caps for other major capital cities. But I guess just

(29:37):
to give a little bit of context, earlier this week,
we had a bit of a look on real estate
dot com. Now, from what I saw earlier in the week,
and I spoke to Ruth Palmer from the Property Council
about this yesterday, there was about six standalone homes in
Darwin on real estate dot Com that fell under that
six hundred thousand dollars cap. So then when you look

(30:00):
at trying to get people into their first times, it
makes it really difficult when there's very little for them
to look at. Now, one of the other things that
Cotalities head of research Tim Lawler said to us on
the show yesterday, is you know, yes, there may be
units and you know units available that do fall under
that cap. But then the problem is for some people,

(30:22):
if you're purchasing a unit, for example, you may then
have to worry about, you know, about your ongoing costs
in terms of your body, corporate and that kind of thing.
So I do wonder whether it's it sort of seems
like it's a no brainer.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Do we lift it slightly?

Speaker 3 (30:35):
I can't understand why Darwin is being disadvantaged against the
Oh I suppose I can. You know there's more votes
on the East Coast there is up here in Darwin,
so but you know, it's just wrong. This is wrong
that Darwin people. We want people to be able to
buy and live here and be incentivized to go live
on the East Coast because they can get a better
deal there. I mean we have the same we have

(30:57):
more disadvantaged here because of the remoteness. We want to
keep as many people here. We want people to come
and live here and choose this place to live. So
I just think it's wrong on so many levels. You know,
it's something, it's something Obviously our federal members have to.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Take yeah, and I'm not sure whether they will.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
I don't know whether it is something that Luke Gosling
is on to. I know that certainly are the mortgage
broker that we spoke to earlier in the week, as
well as one of the real estate agents that we
spoke to probably about three weeks ago. They had said
that it was something that they were going to to
raise with Luke Gosling. I think it has also been
raised with the Northern Territory government. Now I know that
obviously a Northern Territory government doesn't have the capacity to

(31:36):
be able to change this, but you know, surely it's
something that we should all be advocating for so that
we can get more first time buyers into their first times.

Speaker 4 (31:44):
Yes, we are advergetting for this, and we want that
threshold to be lifted to eight hundred and fifty thousand
dollars and that means like more people will be able
to include in the scheme. Because this is a wonderful
scheme that put forward by the federal government. But at
the same time, this clearly shows that they're forgottable the
Northern Territory once again. So that's what we want to
tend We want to make sure our territorians are part

(32:06):
of this. All this program comes for this country and
they need to be part of They should be able
to get onto this as well. And when it comes
to the first time buyers, so we are providing that
fifty dollars from the Northern Territory, so that's going to
really help with this process well. And once the cap
is lifted, I would say like I think the territory
will have like the best option for the first home

(32:27):
buyers and that will help to attract and build our population.
So well, that's one of the key priorities for the government.

Speaker 5 (32:34):
Yeay, Katie, I think there definitely needs to be a
link around what are our short, medium and long term
solutions around housing in the Northern Territory for first homeowners
and for those who are investing here as well. What
we're seeing, you know, when there are changes around being
able to purchase an establish home through some of those
grant schemes, and when that's changed, that disadvantages Territorians who

(32:55):
may not have that big deposit to be able to
put on to a new home for a new build.
So there needs to be I guess that mix, and
I think some of those experts that you mentioned have
put together some of those proposals. I've seen in some
of their forward planning around almost a bit of a
master plan around housing for the Northern Territory, particularly led
by the Property Council. They're doing a huge volume of

(33:15):
work in this space. So is there a way that
you know, you can bring on more developers to have
a mix of social and affordable housing. So those key
workers who earn too much to be in public housing
but not enough to be able to access the private rental.

Speaker 6 (33:29):
Market, how do we keep them here?

Speaker 5 (33:31):
How do we make sure that we can give them
a leg up into the housing market to be able
to stay here, like we said, to keep that talent,
to be able to keep those.

Speaker 6 (33:38):
Resources and those skills here in the territory.

Speaker 5 (33:41):
So, you know, whilst that's one aspect what the federal
government's done being able to advocate for a higher cap,
you know that's probably something all of us can do, definitely,
but are there other processes in planning for that mix
of housing to be able to get people to not
just invest in the territory because we know that's very
popular at the moment, but territory to be able to
get a leg up in the housing market.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
And that I was when I was speaking to a
mama has two children at adult children and the issue
raised this issue with me, and the issue there is
her children being a children be able to buy here
or move to towns or cans and buy there, you know.
So they're not talking about moving to Brisbane. They're talking
about and because they're housing in cans and Brisbane is

(34:23):
quite reasonable in terms of pricing. So that's that's the problem.
She wants to keep a children here, children to stay
and a children want to well.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
And this is the thing.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah, absolutely, that's what we all want, right, I mean, Selena,
is it something that you will speak to Luke Gosling
about or even I guess it is more Luke rather
than the Marion because we are talking more.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
About the Darwin cap as well.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
But is it something that you're going to take to
your federal counterparts.

Speaker 5 (34:47):
Yeah, it's something I'm very keen because there's other areas
where we've advocate advocated for that difference in I guess
treatment for the Northern Territory. When we talk about the
international student cap that was placed where the territory is
saying no, we want more international students through as the
East Coast are saying no. So we do need to
have that visibility of what's right for that diversity of
the territory.

Speaker 6 (35:07):
And this is certainly an area that I'm keen to
talk to a federal matters.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
I feel like it is just literally a situation here
where they're going off older figures, because if you look
sort of six months back, that medium price was probably
around about right when we were in a bit more
of a property slump. But now things have picked up
up and it does just seem as though we're maybe
going off older figures. So I don't know whether it's
a pretty simple sort of solution to go and have

(35:32):
a relook at some of those newer numbers and what
we might be able to do a bit differently.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
And I think when you talk about the money that's
going to be expended by the federal government to change
it here, it's going to be a drop in the
ocean in terms of because about population size compared to
the East Coast, they're going to spend more money on
the East Coast they're going to spend here. I just
think it's something needs to be looked at.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah, well, look, there is quite a bit to discuss
this morning. We're very fast running out of time. But
I want to also discuss the fact that the Larokid
Development Corporation have come out and said that they do
not support the Northern Territory Government's decision to change the
Northern Territory Aboriginal Sacred Sites Act of nineteen eighty nine
and its application to the proposed Waterfront Hotel eleven story development.

(36:14):
So the Larakia Development Corporation's prime objective, they say, is
to create economic opportunities for all Larakia people through the
creation and operation of sustainable business models and the maintenance
of the Larakia Development Trust. Now they are saying that
they want some genuine discussion and transparent engagement with the
Northern Territory Government, developers and Larakia custodians to ensure the

(36:38):
opportunities now and well into the future safeguard sacred sites
and cultural authority. Gary, I know that certainly the NT
News ran a fairly extensive story about this earlier in
the week.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
I think I went back to when Eva Lawla announced
this back in twenty twenty two, and I mean she
was you know, Darwin needs this, and it seemed to
me by looking back that tracking back the Larichier Nation
people were quite happy with that development. I've seen photos
of them being part of the announcement with the Singaporean group.

(37:16):
So it was just seems strange to me that things
had changed in that time, because it seemed in twenty
two everything was quite happy and that the plans had
been released for that development and SLA you probably had
no better mean, you were part of that. I wasn't
a part of that, but I think what EVA said
was very very important. It was a recognition it was

(37:37):
exciting project. It's exciting development. But maybe you can explain
how things have changed in your view since when EVA
announced that.

Speaker 5 (37:46):
Yeah, Katie, it is something that our labor opposition team,
you know, we're very supportive of development and making sure
it is done in the right way. The processes that
are undertaken do provide the community with that understanding, the
comfort that things are being done properly. The changes that
were made earlier in the year from the Celpea government
had limited time to be able to scrutinize, cut out

(38:09):
a lot of consultation and feedback, which is what our
big concern was, how do you make better laws for
the territory. You need to have the input from experts,
those who are affected by those laws to be able
to make something better in the territory when it comes
to law making. When it comes to the development at
the waterfront, I think there's been a very clear connection
to the changes that were made to that particular legislature,

(38:31):
the SAGA sites acted than all the territory by the
CELPA government and the changes for that certificate transfer which
the Abginal Area's Protection Authority has raised.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Those skills hotels I didn't change because I know that
when Ever announced it that it was like I'd had
her in speaking about it like that hadn't changed. So
is it more a concern I suppose with the act
changing or the actual development, do you reckon well?

Speaker 5 (38:54):
I think that's something that I'm very keen to hear
with Jinson, because there's two big developments now that we're
talking about that have changed, the Arts Center and.

Speaker 6 (39:03):
The gallery the State Square Gallery.

Speaker 5 (39:04):
You know, that's changed midway through project and there's an
EI out around what that going to be used for
by the government. So I'd be keen to hear when
things are changing from a project that has first initiated
the actual processes it's undergone, to what is then going
to be delivered for territorians. I mean, there needs to
be some type of clear planning when it comes to Slough.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Like the only thing that changed with the actual hotel
development is the government because like the chair of the
Waterfront at the time was Richard Fijo. When it all
was signed off, then it was obviously announced by Evil
Aula and like my understanding, like I had seen you know,
like that even released. I thought some yeah, some photographs
of what it was going to look like, et cetera.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
So the design was out there in twenty two and
now there's opposition. Here we are in twenty five after
being welcomed. Nigel Brown was there in the source Fijo, Richard,
So I just that was the thing that struck me,
you know, like what changed in the hotel. I can
see what you're saying about it.

Speaker 6 (40:03):
Jipson's from government, so he could probably tell us.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:05):
No, I think like when we came to the government,
so we reformed the Sacredircit Sites Act to protect the
culture and provide certainty for business industry and for the
past list, and that's a move that we have done
because there was long process for each one of those projects.
For example, like when we're seeking about this one project,
we can see about like the current issues that'd been raised,

(40:25):
there was an approval given and or the new act
done was about like that approval as transferred, which is
the same project. And that clearly shows about if it
was the previous way that there was an old process.
Again about like going back to the consultation. So there
was all of those being done and it's been dealt with,
So why would we need to do that all again?

Speaker 2 (40:44):
So did the current government change the height of the hotel?
Like were there significant you know, like were there significant
changes made with the developer?

Speaker 4 (40:53):
From my understanding, there is not change when it comes
to the height or any of those just the proponents
have changed. And again like that's what I'm trying to
say about, like there was a process that was done
and it was done in full consultation, So why would
we need to repeat that all again because of like
a change in the proponent or a developer. And that's
what we communicated back to the territory and sand said,

(41:14):
like we want to make sure that security has been
given to the proponent.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
I mean, this is an Northern Territory government to play
Devil's advocate. Here is the Northern Territory government. You know,
did you guys change this legislation to be able to
push different developments through, whether you're talking about the waterfront
development or whether you're talking about other developments. Has that
legislation changed because you want to circumvent Aboriginal people and

(41:37):
you know the sacred sites that they hold very dear
and see is very valuable.

Speaker 4 (41:43):
So when it comes to the investment decisions, one of
the things that proponents look is about like they need
to get things done in a timely manner. We always
hear about like the government projects that been dragged and
then cost double the amount of like initial project, and
that's what we don't want. And I think the proponents
will not invest in the territory if it's going to
be the same story. Because government has to make this announcement.

(42:03):
Because we've got like mini examples like you brought up
the art gallery. Initially it was like forty seven million dollars.
Now it's around like one forty three million dollars. So
the ship built it was like based on what I
heard from minstera Yanastay, it was like one hundred million initially.
Now it's more than eight dollars. Eight hundred million dollars.
So the private investors are not keen to entering do
that process and they will leave the territory. And that's

(42:25):
what we make sure that the certificates can be transferred
under the new act because there was an it's not
for the initial one. It's all about like the transferring
the certificate because that process was done initially and that
full consultation has been done, so it's been done. There
is a certificate issued by the upper Board, so we
gave the ability for the upper boat to transfer that

(42:45):
certificate rather than going the full process.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Look, we are gonna have to tag a very quick break.
That's pretty much it for us this morning. Carry ship by.
Thank you so much for your time this morning.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
Thanks Kry. Big shout out to all the Masters footballs
in town. It's been great to see them all here
and it's one dollars.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
Coming into the It's been very busy around the place,
hasn't it been fantastic. I had friends at Rapid Recovery
yesterday and I think that they had quite a few
people in there having the ice barts and having the
you know, doing a bit of the recovery for your
body for sure.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, Jinsent, thank you so much for your time today.

Speaker 4 (43:19):
Thanks Katy. I just need to add that tomorrow and
not in the Tree is playing three finals against West
in Australia. Yeah rightful, Masters so tomorrow and men's forties
at eight thirty, women thirty five, nine fifty five and
men's thirty fives at eleven twenty. And a huge shot
or two member for Fanny Beit Laurie cio Yank for
representing India there for most.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
I love stream, good stuff, good stuff and Selena you boy,
thank you so much for your time this morning.

Speaker 6 (43:47):
Thank you Katie.

Speaker 5 (43:48):
And just a reminder to everyone get your flu shot
if you haven't been vaccinated. We've had a lot of
people unfortunately big numbers. Doesn't feel like it's flu season
because it's getting warm, but this is a really opportune
time to get your vaccination if you haven't already.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
For this very true.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Thank you all so much for your company this morning.
We will catch you again very soon.