The Week That Was – 4th August 2023

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for the week that was. It is an
all female lineup this morning. We've got Maury Claire Birthby
from the COLP. Good morning to.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
You, Warning Katy and to your listeners.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
We've got Kathleen Gazola from nine years Darwin.

Speaker 4 (00:11):
Morning, I made it.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
We've got Keyesier Puich from out there in the rural area,
the member for Goider.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Morning Katie, Morning Bush people.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
And we have got Kate Warden from Labor who is
indeed the Minister for Police and Territory Families.

Speaker 5 (00:24):
Lots of portfolios, Morning Katie.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Good to have you all in the studio.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Now, look we might kick things off with the decision
that was made overnight. We learned the on again, off
again Lee Point Defense Housing project. Well it's off again
Defense Housing Australia announcing that it had voluntarily stopped work
until the end of March. In a terse website statement,
the DHA said it would work on cultural issues around

(00:51):
the project and DHA has made the decision to voluntarily
stop work at Lee Point until March thirty one, twenty
twenty four.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
The statement read.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
It continues by saying we will be using this time
to work with relevant relevant government agencies and respond to
the application regarding Aboriginal cultural heritage at the site. Now,
no doubt the announcement is going to be well welcomed
by those who've been opposed to the project, but others
is going to be questioning, well, where do we expect

(01:21):
people to live if we don't have housing developments get
up and moving? And what kind of certainty does this
give two people that do want.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
To get developments underway.

Speaker 6 (01:30):
Well, the one thing it does lots of things. It
upsets the certainty regime for business people and developers clearly
because you know, they work within the framework. I mean,
this has been going on, what we decided for about
five years, the planning, I should say even longer, longer longer,
you know, actually, and there would have been pink signs
for you know, development applications. There's probably even been yellow

(01:52):
signs for rezoning applications. You know, it's not my area,
but I know the area well from being a kid.
So my question has always been where were these people
five years ago when this thing was proposed? You know,
you know, and this hasn't just happened willy nilly. There's
been planning, there's been probably a clearance process to do a.

Speaker 5 (02:10):
Sacred side tale a sale.

Speaker 6 (02:13):
The land has gone from anty government to defense et cetera.
So you know, it's a little bit like a little
bit late to the party kind of thing, you know.
And why defense housing has suddenly stopped for another eight months,
I just think they've just said this is all too hard,
this is too hard.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
And we've seen them before happen up here, you know.

Speaker 6 (02:30):
When they suddenly find these you know, cultural significant areas
or these sacred sites or whatever, the proponents go, this
is too hard, this is too hard to do work
in the Northern Territory. We're going to take our money
somewhere else. And that's going to be a tricky issue
for government because, as you said, the kind of people
who live in these areas are usually young couples or
young families whatever.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Well, you try to enter the housing markets hired.

Speaker 6 (02:51):
People who just want to downsize from a bigger property
to a smaller unit or something.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
And look, I've got friends who are opposed to this project,
so I'm sure that I'm probably going to upset some
people by saying this.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
But you know, like everybody's got there with the land and.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
They've got their houses with their save the Goldy and
Finch posters on them.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
You know, how did you enter that market and you're living.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
In you know, out in that area that land had
to be cleared to move in there, Katie?

Speaker 6 (03:14):
Where were these people when we were fighting a really
hard fight to stop the Nunama Ridge proposal going ahead?
Now that was a huge fight that the residents fought,
and you know I was with them as well in
regards to wanting to develop a massive track of land
that would have completely devastated the Elizabeth Valley Nunamar Ridge area.
And there are special birds and bugs out there too.
Where were these people trying to help us in that fight?

Speaker 5 (03:33):
Now?

Speaker 6 (03:34):
They only go for the sexy things in the city
because they don't want to get their bloody feet dirty,
go going out and fight in real fights in the
rural area, not in my back.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
So where have they been for the last years? This
is the point.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
And I think that we are suffering from a housing
crisis in Australia right now. And if we think that
we're immune from that here in the Northern Territory, well
you're dead wrong. We've got a situation where how bloody
heart is it for a young family or a young
couple to actually enter the housing market, it is incredibly difficult.
Now nobody wants their blocks of lands divided into triplex blocks.
Nobody wants a duplex, nobody wants a new suburb that's

(04:12):
right next door to.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Their So where are we proposing.

Speaker 5 (04:17):
And didn't we fight that battle?

Speaker 1 (04:19):
That's the thing it's written like, I get, we get
that people, you know, I get I get it that
there would be different reasons why people are opposed to projects.
I one hundred percent to understand that. But if you
can go through consultation for the period of time that
this has gone through and still wind up in this
situation where you've literally had tradees out there on site,

(04:40):
who now, what work are they doing?

Speaker 5 (04:42):
I think, Katie, this does prove to you that you'll
never please everybody, and it's a difficult situation. And obviously
it's it is a defense housing project and they've made
this decision, so it's sort of out of everybody else's hands.
And to see how tricky that is for them now
they're going through that cultural I think there assessing culturally.
I think the thing is this does give you a

(05:04):
really good sense that government just needs to get on
I'm talking here normal territory government, of course, and that's
what we're doing in release and more land release and
looking at those areas out by Palmerston, which is where
traditionally a lot of younger people have gone and over
the years, I mean, for some of us have been
here for so long. I remember when blocks in Palmerston
were five thousand dollars and lots of people built their
first home and established them there, and now they're sort

(05:26):
of looking for to come into town and those sorts
of things. So I think the whole area is probably
more not so much first home owners. But you're right,
we've I mean, we've changed the settings on lots of
things to allow people to develop houses, you know, subdivide
in Palmerston. We've seen the innovation that we've now changed
shopping centers to allow residential upstairs, those sorts of things.

(05:49):
You know that smaller footprint and getting people into homes
is just so down important and you know, a bigger
and you get that, and I know that your partner
is well and truly social housing space and fully understand
the need for housing at every you know so level,
every level, whether it's upgrading all your first home, and
that's that's really important. And so that's sort of that

(06:11):
whole development and that planning for Holts and Kowandi into
the future is what we've done.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Jerry Woods messaged and said Wedell.

Speaker 5 (06:18):
And sorry, Jerry.

Speaker 7 (06:21):
The thing is, though, like we're so far behind now.
You've got to release that land and you've got to
do the civil work. So that's still several years away.
The people that we're probably going to be there would
be some defense people right who are now coming up
here because we've got.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
The defense spend. They're going to be taking up.

Speaker 7 (06:37):
Other areas because they also get subsidies, so that's going
to make it even tighter. We've got the international students
meant to be coming in the world. We're still development
that hasn't been even built yet.

Speaker 5 (06:49):
So we also have to remember there's North Crest, and
North Crest isn't completely sold out either, so there are
other places and there is a slow development plan that's
been rolled out by cost there. So we do have
an opportunity for people to buy land, but I guess
it depends where people want. If they wanted that inner
city or that sort of northern suburbs, I think a
lot of people were looking at that one and they'll

(07:11):
have to pause now for until next March.

Speaker 8 (07:14):
So I think what concerns me, I think Keysyer might
have said it is the uncertainty and the message that
it sends to other investors and developers who do want
to come into the territory to be able to do
some of these big projects.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
And you know, we can't.

Speaker 8 (07:26):
Keep putting up the sign to say we're closed and
so and this is it's going to be on a
national scale. I mean, if it's Canberra that of making
this decision, of course the headlines around the country are
probably going to be about this lead point. So I
mean to me that obviously there's contractors that who knows
what's going to happen now, like are they still being
paid or not? Like someone is going to have to
pay something. Is it going to be the consumer at
the end of the day, because of course everything is

(07:48):
at on cost. All of those things are very concerning.
And you know, in a time where we need to
open up the territory for business and activity and increase
our population, all this does is put us back I
don't know how many years well.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
And it is the same week of course that the
Chief Minister, Natasha Files had used her first speech at
the National Press Club to obviously hit out at teals
and trolls campaigning against her government's gas and petrochemical projects.
So we did hear the Chief Minister take aim at
interstate opponents. Opponents, I should say to fracking and the
Middle Arm precinct, but we know the Northern Territories Environment

(08:23):
Body and the Beaterloo traditional owners say that objection to
projects is being led by territorians. Now, I think that
you can sort of while they're very different projects, we
all understand that. But what you're seeing here is, you know,
you've got the Chief Minister on one hand saying we
are open for business and you know, come to the territory,
it's the land of opportunity. But then we've got on

(08:43):
the other hand the federal government halting you know, this
this project or this this housing development out at lay Point. Yes,
I know that they're very different, but it does really
send that message of are we open for business? Well,
we want to be, but if there is too much opposition,
hang on, stop what we're doing.

Speaker 5 (09:01):
Well, we are open for business, Katie, And I think
I mean, I was in the Press Club this week
and I heard her speech, and I think not only that,
but I was there for the questions after, which was
the important part. It was really clear and very interesting
that even the journals that were asking questions about fracking
had not read the Pepper Inquiry and hadn't even bothered

(09:21):
to do their homework, which really rammed down the point
that she was making. Stop making commentary until you've been here,
Stop making commentary about the territory. You don't live here,
about all everything, And that's the point that she was making,
and it was really clear. It just happened that one
journalist really pushed the point about fracking, and when asked
if he'd actually read the Pepper Inquiry, he stood there
mutely for a while and then said no. And she said, well,

(09:42):
I'll have a discussion with you when you have, because
we have done everything we committed to in that Pepper Inquiry,
and the territory is open for business, and we are
looking for a circular economy and we are looking for that,
you know, that circular piece around renewable gas, renewables and
gas and using it as a transition energy source. So
it's really clear, and the room was really pleased to

(10:04):
hear that. There was a lot of people from the
territory in there that knew, but there was also people
from interstate that went, actually, yeah, we get it. She's
absolutely right. We need to stop sitting around in camper
and making decisions for the territory that are not in
our best interests. And definitely she said, you know, we
are open for business.

Speaker 4 (10:20):
As a born and bred territory.

Speaker 7 (10:21):
And I was glad to hear the Chief say that,
like absolutely, it's finally great that you know, we do
get told so often from other states and jurisdictions about
what we should or shouldn't be doing, or what we're
doing is out of line, and you know, we're all
the awful things of society because we're backward up in
the Northern Territory, which is total bullshit. But it's also like,

(10:41):
we're how long from the Pepper inquiry? Why is she
just saying this now?

Speaker 5 (10:45):
Well?

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Why?

Speaker 7 (10:47):
But you have to admit, you have to admit that
even the gas industry and obviously with the Northern Territory
government in line with doing this development, were so far
behind putting out what they're wanting to do, how they're
going to do it, that of course, those people who
are op close to the development, who are critical and
concerned about the environment, have a massive head start, including

(11:07):
all the national groups that are behind them, But we.

Speaker 5 (11:10):
Are not going to change their views. Cat So what
we've been.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
Getting on this strong line, Yeah, years ago.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
I think we did talk about it.

Speaker 7 (11:17):
I mean in this same one occasionally makes the headlines
and makes people think.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
Oh, yeah, I've got to read that study or oh
that is what they're doing.

Speaker 5 (11:24):
I certainly have talked about it, even in my own electorate.
We those words around the pepperin choir. We've in those
words hypocrisies. So it's about time timeliness around that. The
Teals have started to be a bit you know, the
territory can't do this, and we've had a bit of let.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
Months ago and that certainly.

Speaker 8 (11:47):
Also the Teals are just a minority group, but they're
a small group. Of course they're noisy, but it is
white noise. Like Natasha Files should be fighting for territories
and actually going to labor like the like all the
labor people around Australia, I mean their own backgroom party
doesn't agree with the gastoria.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
You've got Daniel Andrews.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
That's exactly in Victoria they're saying, now no gas.

Speaker 5 (12:13):
Basically, yeah, they don't want it. Victoria don't want you know,
no gas where they are, but they're happy to take ours,
and they will get to a situation where they will
need ours and they'll all come running. So we are
actually moving forward. We've done it properly.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
And Cat's making is a really good one in that,
you know, we've all known here in the territory that
you know that fracking is an industry that we've been
looking at for such a long period of time. It
absolutely feels like forever, for decades, and so I think
people are starting to sort of question, Okay, when are
we going to start to see this work actually get
under way?

Speaker 5 (12:46):
Wells has happened, but also only it is happening, and
we actually had to do a baseline study which took
five years.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
More importantly, when are we going to see the jobs
that keep getting promised?

Speaker 5 (12:56):
Well, there's already some jobs, and we're not just doing gas.
So facing north, there were all of the other industry
members there too who were talking, you know, like core
lithium are looking towards the second mind, there is lots
of things happening here, and I think industry is just
getting on and we did hear very strongly that industry
were saying the territory is a really good place for

(13:16):
them to do business and they're choosing to come here.
So you know, it's nice to have third party endorsement
about what we're doing as well. We have got a
plan going forward and I think, certainly being part of
that facing North, everybody's in the same boat.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
You confident that we are going to reach that forty
billion dollar economy by twenty thirty because.

Speaker 5 (13:36):
It's literally absolutely seven years ago. Oh absolutely, I am.
I can see where things are going. We can see
as things move along, it's you know what I hear,
I see some shaking heads. And I also do get
a bit of a privilege around seeing the types of
projects that are coming forward. And no, you can't end
the cabin part of the process, and they you know,

(13:59):
that holds you back. You can't so obviously talk about
publicly about everything that's happening, but the confidence that's happening,
what's going on at Middle Arm and the federal government
coming in and backing us in that space, and the
changes to things like at the dam and waterfront, all
of those things that are going on in the territory.
We'll get us there, and I am very confident that we.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Will understand though how some people are a little bit
skeptical when you're in a situation like we are, And
I know that the defense housing project is a federal one.
But when we're in a situation like we are right now,
then where something's sort of been been worked on for
several years and then it gets halted after those excavators
are already in there. And then when you look at

(14:38):
something like the bea toloo and fracking and how long
it's taking to actually get underway. But then even when
you look at something like the ship, last government has
put that oh.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yep, we'll keep going. The power is still spreading, the
radio is still lay.

Speaker 7 (14:54):
It has put those hurdles in place, that handbrake on
things as well. So it's almost that globally the world
has moved on from gas.

Speaker 4 (15:01):
Have we missed that opportunity that we could have seen
years ago.

Speaker 6 (15:04):
The world may have moved on a little bit from gas,
but gas is still going to be a fundamental product
that we need, not only in this country but elsewhere
and in the territory and in the territory. And the
fundamental reason is because if we're going to move towards
manufacturing or a finding or downstream processing of any kind
at Middle Arm, we are going to need inexpensive energy, absolutely,
and we're not going to get nuclear power, which would

(15:26):
be the ultimate way to go. But so getting gas
or gas from parciftly from the Beetloo or wherever else
it's going to come from is the way that we're
going to get energy at a cost efficient price. So
these projects can move you move forward. I mean, you're commented,
Katie about what's happening. I think what we've got to
remember is when you're dealing with these kind of projects
in the gas industry, they are billions and dollars of projects,

(15:49):
not millions. It's not like Caul Lithium, which is a
very good company in a very good mind, which can
just be approved, discovered, you know, short up all that
sort of stuff within a matter of maybe a year
or two or three. These projects, the oil and gas
industry projects are billions and billions of dollars. It is
high risk, high finance, ultimately high reward, but it takes
time and they just cannot be done within a short

(16:11):
time frame. So you look at someone like Tamberin Resources,
which is the major operator in the Beadleloo area. They
are moving. They are in discussions with the anti government.
They are in discussions with the companies that build the
pipelines to take the gas from Bedloo up to down
from across to maad Isser. That's a separate discussion because
they don't build the pipeline. Someone else builds the pipelines.
They're in discussion with the NTI GOVERMNY in regards to

(16:32):
delivery of gas to supply for our energy, like to
keep the lights on for example, because black Tip is
running down.

Speaker 8 (16:38):
You know.

Speaker 6 (16:38):
So these things just take time. They're hugely complex, and
you know, the government's got its role, but ultimately the
decisions are made by the industry, the players, and it
also involves finance. Like these companies they've got to get
their finance backing, so they've got to get their partners
and then they also have to sell their product. Gas
is one of those things that you have to find
your market and your your your person that's going to

(17:01):
buy it, signed, sealed and delivered before we even dig
the stuff up. It's not like gold, it's not like oil.
Gas is very, very different. So it's a massive project
and you've got to have your contracts in place before
you start to dig a hole.

Speaker 5 (17:12):
Ex Minerals Council Katie.

Speaker 8 (17:18):
You mentioned the forty billion dollar economy by twenty thirty,
and I know there's a lot of confidence coming from
the Minister about that, but we have to remember that
the Northern Territory is only forty five years young in
terms of our economy, so we are still emerging. It
has taken us this long that long to get to
this point, so I'm not sure you know what these
guys are on to make them think that in just

(17:38):
a few short years they can get to an even
bigger economy.

Speaker 5 (17:41):
Of course, you've got to have aspirations and you've got
a course we've done, but you have to be heading
the stick about it.

Speaker 8 (17:46):
And territorianes know when now I speak to them on
in the street every day, they know that the territory
is going backwards under labor. They cannot see the light
at the end of the tunnel which you keep on
trying to paint its.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
Other day.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
The proof is absolutely going to need to be in
the pudding and you know, and that is that's the thing.
When we keep hearing about jobs and when we keep
hearing about the economy, well people are going to need
to see them. And you're not going to see a
population boost unless there's people here or unless there's jobs
here for people to move for. But look, we're going
to need to take a really short break. There's plenty
to cover off on this morning. You are listening to
the week that was. If you've just joined us, it

(18:21):
is the week that was in the studio this morning,
Mary Claire boothby Kathleen Gazola, Keziopurican, Kate Warden. Now, throughout
the week, of course we learned well, we know that
the age of criminal responsibility it was changed and it
is now sitting at twelve. So reforms came into effect
in the Northern Territory on Tuesday after that legislation pass

(18:42):
parliament last year, meaning children under the age of twelve
can no longer be charged with a criminal offense. Victoria
and the Act are apparently forging ahead with their legislation
as well, committing to raise the age.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Now, Kathleen, you ran a story on this last night.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
We've all spoken to the Northern Territory Police Association, but
they'd revealed to you did it had had to be
rushed out on Tuesday due to a leak.

Speaker 4 (19:08):
Yes, that's right.

Speaker 7 (19:08):
So we went and spoke to Nathan Finn, who you'd
had earlier on in the day talking about the obviously
survey results from public service members, and he mentioned that
they were of the understanding and had been told by
the Minister who happens to just be sitting.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
A couple away he'll be able to shed her.

Speaker 7 (19:24):
Opinion on it that check in a moment. August one,
date for Raise the Age, had actually been rushed forward
due to apparently a leak from a briefing with a
service provider. So that means that there were members in
the police force who haven't received their mandatory training in
relation to this new legislation, which to us was very

(19:45):
concerning because also they're stuck behind a computer desk, he said,
doing that training and then putting extra strain on an
already stretched front line.

Speaker 5 (19:53):
So we have on I'm happy to talk about it
because one of the things that we did, I think
through the whole Raising the Age is once the legislation
was passed, we got in and worked with stakeholders because
what we've determined to do is we need to put
money to it, So we put five million dollars in
the budget to it, and we need to have programs,
which we decided not to put out to a service provider,

(20:13):
but that territory families would run the program so we
could keep an eye on them and see make sure
that we're meeting our KPIs, and see the number of
kids that were coming through if there were any. We
do know it's a very small proportion of kids. So
it's only about one percent of the kids that we
see of those ten and eleven year olds reporting.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Though in the week, a NT Court spokesperson said fifty
three cases were discontinued on Tuesday as a result of
the reforms.

Speaker 5 (20:36):
That's that's cases that were before. That's not kids that
were in detention. So I was talking about it's one
percent of kids that come through in detention. No, No,
I've always been clear it's about one percent of kids.
But we had to talk to our stakeholders about it.
You can't talk to the stakeholders about stuff if it's
in secret. One they haven't so in police have always

(20:56):
been at the table every single meeting I've been to,
police have been at the table all the way through, and.

Speaker 7 (21:01):
That was telling from your statement that police have been involved.
Correct the time frame on the executive not setting up
that training long before the last ten months.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
The thing is we're talking space.

Speaker 5 (21:13):
The point is is at the moment, if you before
the first of August, we're now treating ten and eleven
year olds. It's a different referral, but it's exactly the
same as it was for eight nine year olds. So
police aren't changing essentially what they.

Speaker 4 (21:26):
Do, but they're still have to undergo training.

Speaker 7 (21:27):
Correct to understand the legislation only done a couple weeks beforehand.

Speaker 5 (21:32):
Well, there's an awful lot of police officers and it's
slowly been going out, but we had to tell our
service providers the sort of date we were going to
stand it up on, and one of those went out
and didn't leak it. They actually thought it was public
and have apologized. Proposely we're talking about anti costs. They
put out a statement and said the age was the raising.
The age was from the first of August, and so
we were like, oh, hang on a minute. That was

(21:52):
in confidential briefings. We were taking you along with you,
and it's all fine, there's no secrets about it, and
everybody's been making out with this big seat.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
Actually ready, I mean, have we progress is on the
first of July.

Speaker 5 (22:04):
So we what we did is before the first of July,
we knew we were going to get five million dollars
on the first of July, so we filled our staff
in positions and trained our staff so that they were
ready to go on the first of July. And they
were and they are. The main work is being done
not by police. The main work of referral is to
territory families.

Speaker 7 (22:20):
But they are still people who transpond if the alleged
crime that has taken place, so they can still they
have to understand that legislation that has been put in place,
so then they have to under this training which has
only happened. As you said, you've got a lot of
members out in that police force that has only happened
two weeks beforehand or whatever time frame Nathan gave. So

(22:41):
why was that such a short amount of tiation was
very well aware of what was happening, as were police
and police. It's up to police operationally around provision of training.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
But so then the executive has delivered that properly.

Speaker 5 (22:54):
What's essentially happening now is exactly the same as was
happening for eight and nine year olds prior to the
first of all, is now applies to ten and eleven
year olds that the police then refer them on as
they do already to territory families. But the difference being
is we now deal with them and we're providing those
intensive programs, not just with the kids. And this is

(23:14):
where the kicker is here. This is with families. This
is around understanding the family dynamic that sees a young
person in trouble with the law.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
So how are they different to the family responsibility agreements?

Speaker 5 (23:25):
So family responsibility agreement is one that you put you
actually can put on. It's a process that you go
through and the family agrees to undertaking certain steps. This
Territory families case officers stepping in and working directly with
the family that the family are they forced to day in,
day out to get a better outcome while we deal

(23:47):
with some circumstances. There's a lot of case management that
goes on, but we've now got specialists that we've trained
in order to get a better outcome. For these particular
kids in this cohort of kids getting in early is
absolutely the game changer. Please can still arrest them though,
that's the other thing people think that it can't happen.
Please can still need.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
To be but they have to go to territory families.

Speaker 5 (24:08):
But they need to go to territory family.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
I just want to look in because you had said
it's only one percent of you know, there's literally less
than one percent you know that were in don Dale.

Speaker 5 (24:18):
But then no, they weren't in don Dale. They were
the first of August, there were none and you.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Thought that all these kids were walking out.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
No, I don't think anyone did, because you've already told
us previously were a lot of kids in there. But
so the NT Court spokesperson saying fifty three cases were
discontinued on Tuesday as a result of the reforms.

Speaker 5 (24:37):
Not necessarily so it discontinued as a legal process. But
all of those kids would now be picked up by
territory family.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
But it's fifty three kids who've broken the law.

Speaker 5 (24:44):
I think it's fifty three matters, not necessarily fifty four
three kids. So fifty three cases kid could have like
ten minutes against them. So that's I think that's a
misconception as well, because chargers, you can have ten charges
for doing one. I don't know Katie's got that. Yeah,
well I don't have any further inform that information, but
you know you might have a disappoint that.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
I'm so is that to the community. They're going, we'll
hang on a sect. Fifty three cases are discontinued. So
fifty three cases where the law has been broken.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
No longer applies to you.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
And that's what people are going to be thinking.

Speaker 5 (25:15):
So they're not necessarily see that this is the perpetual
thing that the CLP keep saying. They're back out on
the street. This is not the way that this happens.
So I think that everyone of us needs to go
home and work at ten and eleven year old and
go do we want them straight away in detention or
do we want to make sure they get detention.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
I think they're not.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
That's something that labor then perpetuates that at the minute
that they do something wrong, they're going straight into.

Speaker 5 (25:38):
Detem They're not.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
They're not, are they They're going through several cases.

Speaker 5 (25:41):
Those kids are generally out and they're generally in programs.
We have hundreds of kids in programs, Katie.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
We've their matters have now been discontinued.

Speaker 5 (25:49):
Yes, but it's highly likely that after the program that
they were being discontinued anyway to achieve the program just
does because I'm real, seventy percent of those kids we
never see again.

Speaker 8 (26:00):
So do that how many of those kids will complete
the program or is there no requirement to complete the program?

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Now?

Speaker 5 (26:06):
No, that yours. These are legal matters. You're confusing the two.
That doesn't mean these.

Speaker 4 (26:10):
Fifty three cases.

Speaker 7 (26:11):
However many kids that is would then be referred to
this program if you know absolutely, or.

Speaker 5 (26:16):
We would know exactly who those kids are, and we
would have intensive management with those kids. This program that
we've stood up time mandatory?

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Do they need to complete it? Or does it just
get let go?

Speaker 5 (26:25):
Nothing just gets let go? To say no, these kids,
we stand up to take court orders immediately.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
So is it mandatory or voluntary? Even if you court.

Speaker 5 (26:37):
Order, this is your problem. If you court ordered, it's
highly likely you'll get an awful lot less compliance because
people do not comply with court orders, and we know
that that's why you fill up your jails. What we're
doing is we are inter absolutely. We are intervening early
as we can. We know that most of these kids
have got a situation at home that is not conducive
to them being safe. We are working intense with those families,

(27:01):
so it's not it sounds like it's not mandatory. But
I have a question and maybe Kate can answer it.
When they go to territory families, what does that actually mean?
Does that mean they go into a foster home or
does it mean they're going.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
Into out of home foster home.

Speaker 6 (27:17):
It's a really good question.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Or do they go to their own home?

Speaker 6 (27:19):
It clear their own homes are done.

Speaker 5 (27:21):
There's an assessment that's just paperwork, So there's a no,
there's a So we've got newly trained officers that will
go with that child and they will go to that
house and make a full assessment of that house. If
the child is neglected, a child protection response immediately stands
up for all of these kids. Anyway, So when we
say territory families are taking those young people, what they

(27:44):
do is they become their case managers and they walk
with them to get them a better outcome. If the
home is contributing to them, it may result in a
family responsibility agreement, Katie. But that's one tool. So these
are highly trained officers that work with kids every day
to know what's going on in their lives. That's actually
enabling them to behave like they are.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
The young childre don't have a home to go to.

Speaker 5 (28:08):
What if they were coming to the care of territory family.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
So is that then going into we have a home
residential cares.

Speaker 5 (28:14):
There's a whole range of different care sectors.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
All right, because that's where I've been contacted by a
few people about out of home residential care, and I
have been told by workers that there is nothing stopping
other older kids coming to pick them up. There is
nothing stopping those children from leaving.

Speaker 5 (28:31):
So they need well so that we from time to
time have issues at intensive residential care houses. These are
young people that are often not behaving well, and sometimes
you do get issues. We address that when we've got
that information. And I know on a personal level, I've
taken up several cases where in local communities we've had

(28:53):
that service not meet the benchmarks. But we also have
a range of kids that I've met along the way
that are in those service says that are really really
kicking goals and going well, so the whole lide is no.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Doubt that some kids are good kids that get on
the wrong track and that there is absolutely, I would
hope a path for them to be able to get
back on to and there is for you, yeah.

Speaker 5 (29:13):
Because when you're talking about eight, nine, ten, and eleven
year olds, most often they're out with older kids, and
so what you need to do is make sure that
you understand what's driving that, because an eight year old
themselves doesn't necessarily just walk out the you know, there's
got to be some driver around that. So that's what
those case officers do, and we make sure that the
kid is safe at home but getting supported at home.

(29:33):
The number one thing we need to do with those
kids is make sure they're going to school and every
bit of information that I come that is the number
one thing, because when those kids are engaged at school,
they're tired at the end of the day, and they're
not ourselves.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
If we've got territory families or somebody going around to
the different shopping centers each day. Because even yesterday, we're
getting a lot of phone calls and a lot of
messages to the show people saying that at Casarina Square
yesterday there was a lot of kids there, not in
school uniforms or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
They were there and it was during school.

Speaker 5 (30:01):
Hours, so there's a no score, no service. But also
there's the Truancy Group, I forget what the name of
them is a re engagement group out of education. So
that's the work that they do. But if people see that,
then we need to make sure that we're working. And
I've caught up with poly Square Manage CULTU Square Management
work very very closely with pol contact.

Speaker 8 (30:23):
When they see that they're going to contact the police.
But the police are saying that they don't have enough resources.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
And we'll get to train a minute.

Speaker 8 (30:30):
But the minister's saying that that's not true. So I'm wondering,
like who is telling the truth? I think territories would
back the police over listening to the police minister at
this point, like what is what is actually going on here?
It just feels like it's going around around search them.

Speaker 5 (30:45):
A number of young people in town that have stayed
after the show and we've seen that. So at the moment,
there's a real strong pushback on return to country that
is occurring at the moment, and police are.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
We going on long before, just before the show, or
just after the show.

Speaker 5 (30:59):
So once a child is sixteen, they actually don't have
to go to school. It's not a legal age for starters.
So some of those young people that people are talking
about are actually not there's no legal requirement for them
to go to school. But where there's young people that are,
we work with Polly and her group to casuin a
square to make sure that we can identify them.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Can I ask you before we move along, I just
want to ask I just want to get to the
bottom of Kate. As the Minister for Police, are you
confident that the Northern Territory Police have the training that
is now required to be able to do what is
required now with the changing of the age.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Of criminal responsibility?

Speaker 1 (31:33):
And you're confident that Territory families also have all the
training and everything that's required to be able to ensure
that we do not see kids that are under the
age of twelve years old breaking the law.

Speaker 5 (31:44):
Absolutely, And I think one of the things is Katie
that after the show that perhaps we need to get
someone in from Territory Families to have a chat with you.
You'll be keen and we can sort of sort that
out so you can be really assured of the specialists
we've got in this space, about the really highly trained
personnel we've got, the case management that we've got going
on with these families, because you know, you might we
might see one or two totally unacceptable circumstances, but behind

(32:07):
the scenes, we've got hundreds of people in territory families
working with families across the Northern Territory to get the
kids a better stuff.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
I don't doubt it, but I know that, you know,
looking at just that number fifty three cases being discontinued,
I'm sure that there are going to be people listening
that are thinking, we want to.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
Know exactly how we can get going to be deal with.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
So that they can be sure that they're not engaging
in Well, it's no longer going to be considered criminal
behavior for them, But what is considered criminal behavior I
guess by the rest of the territory or those that
they maybe offend against.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
One of these things, Katie, that this proves to me today,
and you know, we're always learning in this job, is
that we need to communicate a little bit better, and
part of that communication is through media. And so I'm
very happy to find someone from Territory Families. I've actually
got a person in my head, but I won't name
them because they they would throw them completely in there.
But I think there's we've got some really good people
in Territory Family that could talk to you about all

(33:02):
of the details about the programs that we're running and
the hundreds of kids that we're putting on a better
path every day.

Speaker 8 (33:09):
Okay, when you do speak to them, like how many
cases per case manager there are, Well, look, we're going
to take them to talk of the workload.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, yep, we are going to take a really short break.
You're listening to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was. There's still a lot
to cover off in the next eighteen minutes. Now. There
has been a lot on the agenda this week. I
guess there always is, but I do just want to
actually head to something that sort of kicked off I
guess last week and has continued on this week, but

(33:37):
we've not had the opportunity to speak about it on
the week that was.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yet.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
We know that nearly twenty six thousand people have now
signed the petition Justice for Decklan Lavity and after being
unable to sort of get a straight answer I guess
last Thursday by the Attorney General, Chancey Paig about whether
he thought that it should then go to debate or
not after going to the Public Accounts Committee or when
it went to the Public Accounts Committee. Well, the Public
Accounts Committee did make a decision. I think that that

(34:02):
was the sensible and right thing to do, and they
decided that it is going to go to debate next
time Northern Territory Parliament sits. We don't know what day
or date or anything like that at this point in time.
The thing that people are quite upset about is that
it's only going to be for sixteen minutes. But Keyser,
you talked us through this during the week.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yes, you keep going yep, and you had.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Said that you know that that is obviously part of
government standing orders. That's not something that the Northern Territory
government's decided on. But I think that probably you know,
the biggest point that I would try my best to
get across is that for twenty six thousand people to
sign a petition, I've never seen a petition get that
kind of traction in the Northern Territory before. I've not

(34:42):
seen us get to a point where that many people
have signed something. And ten thousand additional people signed that
petition after the Northern Territory government had made their announcement
around reforms to bail and the knife crime legislation changes.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
So people want to they heard.

Speaker 6 (35:00):
They do want to be heard, and that's what a
petition is all about. You are petitioning the King or
the Queen. You're petitioning the Parliament to have your voice
and your issue or your concern or your problem aired.
And clearly you're looking for a fixed You don't don't
petition for the heck of it. You're petitioning a parliament
because you want an answer for your petitioning reason. So
the reason and the details in the petition, that's what

(35:23):
you're taking to the Parliament. And as I said, if
people weren't listening previously, the sixteen minutes to debate it
is what is in our standing orders now. I can't
recall why we chose sixteen minutes as a parliament I
know that New South Wales is much long. It's about
an hour, and perhaps some of the other states could
be a different timeframe as well.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
That can be changed.

Speaker 6 (35:39):
Standing orders are reviewed all the time there's a Standing
Orders committee that's got COLP government independence on it. If
that needs to be changed, then perhaps the COELP needs
to bring that forward and say, look, this is what
we're looking to do.

Speaker 4 (35:50):
Change at that time when it's about to debate. No.

Speaker 7 (35:53):
No, So it's got to be beforehand, it's away from
the sitting.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yes, the rule book has to be amended.

Speaker 4 (35:59):
So we can't do change the sixteen minutes when it
is coming up for debate rules the parliament.

Speaker 5 (36:04):
That's Senate.

Speaker 7 (36:05):
But I know that obviously as politicians you can stand
up during cities and suspend.

Speaker 4 (36:10):
Standing orders that could change things. Then can you do that?

Speaker 8 (36:14):
You could put something on urgency, the government could change
their government business to put that forward and then the
debate could be forty minutes each.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Like a thirty plus ten rule. They could absolutely do that.

Speaker 8 (36:24):
I mean we have been calling for Natasha files since
that petition was lodged to do that, to put aside
standing orders and actually allow for a full debate. But
not only that, allow exactly what time and what day
it's going to be debated, because there are a lot
of people not only in the territory but around the
country that are looking into this and they really want
to actually know one it's going to be on, so

(36:45):
they can tune in or they could come in and
sit in the gallery. And I think that that is
something that Territorians, they continue to say they're not being heard.
This is one chance for Natasha Files to show that maybe,
just maybe she is listening.

Speaker 6 (36:58):
Well, I mean there's ways we we could address that more.
Claire could I could write to the to the Chief
Minister and the Lead of Government Business, which is Chancey
Paign say the petitions being debated, can you please indicate
in the week of sittings in August what day for startups,
whether it be Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. It's likely to
be a Tuesday or Thursday, I'd say, because wednesday's GBD
General Business which is Opposition and Independence turn to say

(37:21):
whatever they want to talk about. And so same as
the CLP could write to the Chief Minister and the
Government Business saying, look, this is a matter of importance
to everyone. We want a respond to petition. Yes, we've
got only sixteen minutes, which is about three minutes per person, whatever,
and that we can do that. So we can we
can appeal to the government to give us indications so

(37:41):
that those who are genuinely interested in this matter want
to be physically they're there, have the opportunity to come
in or tune in on the on the internet.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
What's the last time that you saw that, like, you know,
such a high number of people sign a petition.

Speaker 6 (37:53):
Well from the territory perspective, specifically territory signatures because bearing
in mind this signatures are changed dot or which scoop
up people from.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Interstate and wherever.

Speaker 6 (38:02):
But it was the too when the Henderson Labor government
wanted to sell too and there was a woman I
can't remember her name.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
It wasn't no you guys, no, no, we did. I
got them in the background from that.

Speaker 6 (38:12):
Yep Chile SAG but prior Henderson Labor GNENT wanted to
sell it and there was a massive backlash. And this
is before the days of change dot org and internet
and text messages and social media. So they were paper
copies and this woman was the key driver in getting
all the signatures and it was just over twenty thousand.
I recall that I can't recall who tabled the petition,

(38:36):
but it was it was tabled. We were I was
in opposition with the CLP at the time. So and
the government went ooh, this is this is heavy. You know,
twenty thousand territorians. I mean there might have been a few, yeah, different,
but that was a physical paper petition, and so the
government did listen because it was a very serious matter
at the time for territorians, very parochial about their territory

(38:58):
insurance of us. That's probably the only one that I've
seen on that level. There's been some petitions to do
with the fieries and their salaries to have been like
in the thousands. And I've always said to people, you know,
when I was a speaker talking to school groups, the
more signatures to a petition that you've really worked hard
to get, the government should take notice that. That's not
to say a petition with ten people is not important.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
No, that's exactly right.

Speaker 6 (39:21):
It ends on the issue.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
But you know, the other side about this discussion that
i'd heard throughout the week is that there was also
a petition following the death of seafat the International Student
Now that petition has never reached the point of being
debated or discussed because.

Speaker 5 (39:36):
When it was put and it wasn't referred to, it's
not refer. Anybody on the floor can refer it and
it didn't happen.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
But which is sad. It's incredibly sad.

Speaker 5 (39:46):
But what's happening with this one is it is going
to be debated and there are some there are elements
of it that have already been implemented, so it will
be a good opportunity to talk about the changes that
have occurred since that. But I do think we are
in a different world of petitions now with these online petitions,
because you can be sitting over in you know, Sydney

(40:06):
once again having a comment in the territory and I
think we've got to be very careful, but you do this.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
But I think it foolish to ignore this. I think
it's incredibly foolish to ignore us because medicine people signed
it after you guys announced what you're going to do
this week with.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Crime, so is talking a thousand people.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
I'm not happy with you, territories, But how do you
reckon that's going to reflect you.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Guys at the polls if you end up with a
surge like that.

Speaker 5 (40:33):
It's really important, Katie, that we take notice of what
people are saying to our parliament, particularly Territorians and you
know that we've got smaller extrips. So when we're knocking
on the doors for people, which you know a lot
of us do a lot, we get that feedback straight,
you know, to us, and we can we're able to
talk through those issues. The thing about this petition is
there's a number of elements in there around things like

(40:53):
a crime a knife strategy that's coming forward. There are
other things around changes to bail which we did back
in March, and there's a number of things that we're
already done that we can talk about axes and adding
machetes into those controlled weapons lists. So I'm really looking
forward to the debate, and it will be an important debate.

Speaker 8 (41:12):
Do you support extending it from sixteen minutes to a
full I have.

Speaker 5 (41:15):
To wait and see that what happens and how it
comes through.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Division.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
So are you going to put it up? So Mary
should put it up.

Speaker 8 (41:24):
You've got in the government opportunity to twenty six thousand people.

Speaker 5 (41:27):
You've got lots of opportunities to bring through lots of legislation.
Mary Claire and you guys stuff it up every bloody time.
So don't sit here and tell us about standing orders.
I can't even bring a food full bill forward.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
Where's a DV strategy.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
For more than sixteen minutes, which is what territories want.

Speaker 6 (41:43):
I try and bring forward private Members bill to have
high caliber shooting ranges allowed in the territorble.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
The does shut away from the petition.

Speaker 7 (41:51):
We've seen thousands of people go to rallies in front
of Parliament House, so that shows you just how important.

Speaker 5 (41:58):
Series and we take it to and to be. We
speak for all my colleagues. We look forward to the debate.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
We are going to have to take a really short break.
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty.
It is the week that was. Now we have only
got a couple of minutes left if you've just joined us,
so you are listening to the week that was.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
And in the studio Marie.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Claire boothby Kathleen Gazola, Kezy Apurican, Kate Warden. Now, one
of the stories that certainly made headlines throughout the week
was the report of a jockey being assaulted near her
home last weekend.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
Now we spoke to her on the show.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
She had raised concerns about the fact that she had
called triple zero and the police weren't there. We then
spoke to Travis Wurst from the Northern Territory Police, the
Assistant Commissioner, and he did talk us through the volume
of callouts that the police are receiving at the moment
and a lot of the messages that we then started
to get on the text line were you know, goodness me, Katie,

(42:53):
we don't have enough police And I think that that's
you know, that is always the discussion that we that we.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
End up Ash, I ask where is the review.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
At what is it still at the point of terms
of reference being decided.

Speaker 5 (43:07):
I've committed to publicly committed and I certainly put it
on the record during estimates that we'll be doing an
assessment of police resources. And it's not just about the number,
it's actually are they in the right place, doing the
right thing at the right time. So it's a bigger
border question, and that is we're progressing with that. We
are walking with the NTPAY, we are keeping them informed
around that process. You'll see a little bit of voice

(43:30):
from them, I think in the next few months, and
that's fine, but because you know, they obviously wanted to
pitch what they would like us to do. But we
are moving forward with that assessment. And Travis is right,
there's a you know, a huge call volume that comes through.
But if I can say one thing today, Katie is
I've stood in that Jess area where people have been
ringing in to get a taxi if you want, and

(43:52):
I've heard several of it. If you're ringing triple zero,
it needs to be kept for those most urgent calls
so that please can triage to the right places and
you know, make those decisions. These are operational decisions for
police where they send people and it's really important. So
I just really want to make that message really clear today.
Please only call triple zero. If it's a triple.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Zero for a taxi, you're an absolute dickhead like you
do not do that.

Speaker 6 (44:21):
There should be a law against.

Speaker 7 (44:22):
Yeah, I've definitely heard audio of people asking you how
to like roasted.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
It's all sorts of terrible.

Speaker 5 (44:28):
Yeah, keep that mind free for the most.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Serious and.

Speaker 6 (44:33):
That's the emergency services. That's what they they're therefore to
respond to the emergency situations, whether it be police, file
or ambulance or all three of them, as happens sometimes
with bad road accidents. And I think maybe that's something
we should look at cap Mary clear if people are
going to I know it's hard to prove that the
person's done and to track them, but with all dices,
if they are ringing triple zero for things in the

(44:54):
Northern Territory, there should be a crime committed if it's
something because one it's wasting courses and to its jeopardized
in the life of someone.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
Yeah, hey, we are going to have to wrap up,
but just very quickly.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Before we wrap up, I do want to just mention
the fact that there was a record broken. Of course,
last weekend, hundreds of people headed to Mindle Beach to
see this world record attempt at driving underwater.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
There were choose as the mud crab.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
That orange nineteen seventy eight land cruiser emerged from pitch
black water at Darwin's Mindle Beach.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
Surely, never ever it was land cruiss never dying.

Speaker 6 (45:29):
Good on your fellows and everyone else involved in that's
the territory spirit.

Speaker 3 (45:34):
It was phenomenal.

Speaker 5 (45:35):
It's so nice.

Speaker 6 (45:36):
Saw a photo where they caught fish on the way.
Oh I don't know if that's.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
True or not, but hunched a couple of barrow put
on them. Wonderful stuff.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Well, thank you all so much for your time this morning.
Murray Clare Boothy from the COLP, thank.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
You, Thank you, Katie, have a great weekend you too.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Kathleen Gizola from nine News Darwin and you thank you,
Kezier Puric the member for going to thank you.

Speaker 6 (45:56):
You want my hot tip for the cup go on
of course yes, rudn wir Rude favorite.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
It first.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
And Kate Warden from the ALP and the Minister for
Police Territory Families.

Speaker 5 (46:10):
Thank you Katie for having us as always and get
out to the cup if you're in Darwin and have
her enjoy the last of our beautiful long weekends.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
Yeah, I know it's a bit disappointing, isn't it when
they're all over for the year that was, the week
that was.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three
sixty