The Week That Was - 7th February 2025

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time for the week that was and joining us
in the studio this morning. We've got the Attorney General
Murray Claire.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Boothby, good morning and to your listeners.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
Great to have you in the studio.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
We have got the nt News head of News, Gary Shipway,
good morning, good.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
Morning and welcome back mate.

Speaker 4 (00:15):
Thank you church.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Great to have you back in the territory and at
the paper, so thanks so much for your time this morning.
And we've also got well from the from Tenant Creek.
I believe she's coming to us from this morning. The
Opposition leader Selena Rubo, Good morning to you.

Speaker 5 (00:32):
Good morning Katie, good morning to listeners.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Lovely to have you all on the show this morning. Now, look,
there is so much to cover off and I want
to go first to the major announcement that started to
come through over the last twelve hours. The COLP government,
well they've shocked correctional staff across the Northern Territory late
yesterday afternoon announcing private contractors are going to be used

(00:54):
across the Northern Territory. The Corrections Commissioner last night message
staff to say that in response to challenges the Northern
Territory governments introducing targeted amendments to the Correctional Services Act
of twenty fourteen, subject to passage through the Legislative Assembly.
The Commissioner of Corrections is going to have the power

(01:15):
to appoint special officers to supplement the core corrections workforce. Now,
to put this into a bit of context for our
listeners who are going to be hearing this probably for
the first time, there's going to be the secondment of
interstate officers. So qualified correctional officers and probation and parole
officers from other Australian jurisdictions are going to be secondered

(01:37):
on a temporary basis as and when needed. We're also
going to see special correctional officers and special probation and
parole officers are pointed through specialist contractors. Now, the Commissioner
has to be satisfied that they are and that they
have the appropriate qualification, skills or experience to properly performed

(02:00):
the relevant special officer functions. Now, what I will say
is that I've had a number of correctional staff getting
contact with me in the last twelve hours. They're seriously
concerned about the changes and say that there are going
to be safety implications. Well, to them as officers and
also to the broader public. You know, they do not

(02:23):
feel that the transportation of prisoners is something that should
be farmed out to private, private organization or private officers,
and they say that in other locations around Australia it
really hasn't worked. Now, on this note, I think it
would be remiss for me to not mention the fact
that the Northern Territory Police Force are also right now

(02:45):
seeking public assistance to locate a thirty three year old male,
mister Chris Cooper, who escaped from NT Corrections custody in
Darwin a little earlier yesterday afternoon. Now what we know
at this point in time is that he fled from
the Darwin Watchhouse on Nuckie Street sometime between three point
thirty and five o'clock in the afternoon. He was last

(03:06):
seen in the Karama area about six point thirty last night.
Now police do not believe that he poses a risk
to the public, but they're well, we're being urged to
not approach him and to contact police immediately if cite it. Now,
there's obviously a lot to take in here, but I
know that, you know, right from the outset, I thought
to myself, goodness me the same afternoon that this announcement's

(03:29):
being made about the changes to corrections. We've got a
situation where we've got somebody who somehow escaped from the
Darwin Watchhouse in our CBD under the care of well,
I'm not sure whether it's under the care of the
police or under the care of Corrections, but either way.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
It's a concern Katie.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Firstly, I want to thank the correctional officers who do
a fantastic job under a lot of pressure, especially right now.
We've been hearing for months and months that our new
government is taking a stand on community safety and that
number of new prisoners is now over five hundred because
we want to make sure our streets are safe. So
thank you to all of the officers who work so hard.

(04:09):
But equally, they're also the ones that tell us that
they are under a lot of pressure and that we
do need to make some changes to ensure that they
can manage the workload and the people coming through the prisons,
and so we needed to look at every single option.
We asked the Commissioner to do that to ensure that
we could respond to what is needed. And this new part,
this new corrections legislation will allow us to be able

(04:33):
to just let the police do in times of need,
go out to our community nationally and find officers that
can come to the territory.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
I think that part most people wouldn't have an issue with.
But we're also talking about bringing in additional workforce that
aren't trained as well, or as significantly or as extensively.
I guess as what correctional staff would be to do
the jobs that correctional staff usually would do, like transporting prisoners,
particularly transporting them, and I'm guessing overseeing them as well

(05:01):
when they're on court appearances, when they are inside the
hospital and they need an escort to look after them
in that kind of situation. And like, I get it
that it may be seeing that that is not as
you know, there may not be as much specialist training
required to do those jobs as what there are when
you're working inside the correctional facility. But there's also a

(05:22):
lot of risk associated. I mean, when you're transporting a prisoner,
if that person gets out and if they're dangerous, that's
a concern.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
So, Katie, a couple of things. They're Firstly, the corrections
officers are working one hundred and sixty hours. What's sorry,
one hundred and sixty thousand hours when it comes to
transporting and we know that there's not enough corrections officers
to do all of the work that is required, and
those transporting times, I mean that's extraordinary, and I know
it costs the taxpayer eleven million dollars, but it is

(05:52):
those things stood a year. Yeah, So that is transporting
prisoners from prison to hospitals to the courts, sitting with
them while they are in hospital, and sitting with them
while they're in court. So that's an important role to play,
and the Commissioner must be satisfied that whoever does that
role is qualified enough to be able to look after

(06:13):
those prisons prisoners. And it's not entirely the same as
a police officer having to deal with someone at the
front line at a scene where it's really violent and
there's alcohol involved or drugs, like these prisoners are. You know,
they're sober for a starters, which means that they have
a different behavior when they are incarcerated. So if the
Commissioner is satisfied that those probationary officers, prisoner officers, whatever

(06:37):
it is that comes, whether they're from South or they're
from a private firm, can actually do that job of
that transportation. What that means is that the core correctional officers,
which we value so much and work so hard, can
actually do the job that they need to do, which
is obviously looking after people who are incarcerated and into
programs that we need so they can rehabilitate so they
can lead a life beyond crime.

Speaker 4 (06:57):
I think there's a couple of issues here, and one
is that these people aren't going to be a member
of the union, so there's going to be a war
with the government over non union members looking after coming
in now working with the union members, but they're clear
of the intended of the government is to solve the
overtime prices and have privatization a privatized workforce. Now I
understand that the goal is that these people that are

(07:19):
from the privatized workforce will have a SERT three, which
is the minimum requirement for a corrections officer. So from
my point of view, I think they should be given
a chance tot'll see if it works, but there will
be significant btting of heads with the union members staff
from our members that union, so they're not going to
make it easy for the private workforce to come in there,

(07:40):
and a lot of these people probably come from CIRCO
something like that, who are already trained in this sort
of the sort of procedure. So, you know, I think
it should be given a chance to work, but I
think the United Voice, the Union that represents Corrections, will
make it very, very difficult. And this notion that they're
all going to be in experience. We're not going to
show them how to put handcuffs on and they shouldn't

(08:01):
been doing it. And there's the other point is it's
a touch ironic because one of the biggest complaints from
Union has been that corrections officers are wasting too much time,
nursemating prisoners in hospitals, taking to court, all the sorts
of things that these people are going to now be doing.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
So, Selena, what do you make of it all? Because
obviously the Labor government, when in power previously didn't make
moves to privatize any part of correction.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
So what do you make of this announcement, Katie.

Speaker 5 (08:32):
I think it's quite a concern, And you know, I
do echo what the Union has already out later known
in the last couple of weeks. But this is about
the risk of safety for those officers, for those corrections officers.
I get that Silpi government's wanting to try and solve
some issues of the extra legislation that was put through

(08:53):
last year, which is now obviously seeing those escalating numbers.
But this is about mitigating the risk and the safety
elements for those offices. They're highly trained. It's the highly
intense environment anyway, when you're in a prison and when
you're exporting someone in and out of a prison. I'm
not hearing anything from the Attorney General from Marie Claire

(09:14):
about how is the government going to ensure the safety
of those offices. If there's going to be security guards
in and out of the correction system who are not
trained in that highly intense way that our correction staff are,
how is the safety of those security guards going to
be kept up? How's the safety of the corrections officers
who are trained going to be kept up? This is

(09:35):
about the safety obsuratorians who are working in those highly
intense environment and that's what the union's going to be
extremely concerned about and what they're already concerned about.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Katie, Yeah, I think you make a very fair point.
I mean, the correctional stuff that I spoke to overnight
had basically said to me, you know, Katie, we're worried
that this is a situation where we're going to have essentially,
what is private security guards stepping into these spaces that
can become incredibly danger, dangerous.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
And you know, if you look at.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
The situations that we see unfold sometimes you know in
shopping centers, at bottle shops where you've got guards, security
guards that are too frightened to step in.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Can I be clear there for your listeners, Katie, is
we're not talking about the security guards that stand at
a bottle shop right at the front of a supermarket
that they're the very specific reason and they're private contractors.
What we're talking about is the experienced officers who are
trained up by those big organizations.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
Experienced, like that's the thing they're actually we are going
to need to find them. So they're not going to
be experienced, They're going to be people that need to
be trained. And that's I think the point that people
are worried about.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Many of them will come from into state where they're
already doing that kind of work, and other prisoners around
the country where they're already working in prisons, so that
the idea that they won't be sufficiently trained and they're
going to cause more safety. The whole reason we're doing
this is to ensure that our cor correctional offices we
have working now are safe and our prisoners are safe
because they need the hours to be able to do

(11:02):
that in a safe way.

Speaker 5 (11:03):
Look, there will be very Claire, we don't have it. Sorry, rightly,
we don't have an issue with other corrections office coming
from other jurisdictions because they are trained the use of
that environment. That's the everyday bread and butter. That's the
work that they do, and that's what they're professional at.
What we're concerned about, and what we haven't heard from
the Celhit government, from your government is who are the
other special appointed officers that are going to be doing

(11:27):
this extra work, like you said, the escorts, Who is
that going to be and how can you guarantee the
safety of those workers as well as our correction stuff.
That's what the members want to know. That's what the
corrections members want to know.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Like I've said, though, yeah, like I've said, those officers
that are going to come to do that transporting work,
they are in the main from other areas around Australia
who already work in the corrections system. We talking well,
I don't have that number specifically, but the whole idea
is that we've listened to Corrections and the staff that
do work incredibly hard. We need to have a solution

(12:01):
for the transporting and to put to alleviate the pressures
that they have on the staff there to ensure that
they're safe. And this is one thing we can do
pretty quickly in legislation to ensure that we can start
to have some options so that we can deal with
the five hundred plus more prisoners that we've got and
to ensure that we can then be rolling out those
programs inside income when you're incarcerated, so that when you

(12:23):
do leave prison, you're a better person now than you
were when you went in.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
Look, we are going to have to take a short break.
We are going to continue this discussion after ten o'clock
this morning. I'm actually going to be joined in the
studio or actually over the phone I think by Matthew Varley,
the Corrections Commissioner, So we'll delve more deeply into that
coming your way, though very shortly. We're going to be
speaking about the fact that the Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi
is in Alice Springs making an announcement this morning with

(12:48):
our Chief Minister Lea Finocchio.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
Well, if you have just joined us in.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
The studio, We've got Gary Shipway the head of News
with the Northern Territory News. We've got Mariy Claire boothby
the Attorney General, and joining us from Tenant Creek on
the line is the Opposition leader Selena Ubo. Now we
know that Anthony Albanezi arrived in Alice Springs yesterday the
Prime Minister Well, he arrived just over a week after
Peter Dutton visited the region, which as we know, has

(13:14):
been struggling with issues of crime, domestic violence and other
antisocial behavior. The Prime Minister this morning Well joining with
the Chief Minister Leofanocchiaro to sign a landmark partnership agreement
to strengthen delivery in remote First Nations communities in the
Northern Territory. The government committing eight hundred and forty two

(13:34):
point six million dollars over six years to deliver the
Northern Territory Remote Aboriginal Investment, which includes continuation of essential
services for remote communities, including policing, women's safety, education and
alcohol harm reduction. It is a big announcement and most people,
I mean most seem to be on board. We've got

(13:56):
the Chief Minister obviously there with the Prime Minister. We
also know that Senator Melanderie McCarthy, Steve Edgington, Marion scrim
Jaw and doctor John Patterson all there to talk about
this very significant announcement.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
What do we make of it?

Speaker 4 (14:14):
I think if you look at it, it's funding that's
committed to existing programs. So these are I mean that
the organizations that receive this funding will be very happy,
of course, because it gives them certainty in the way
they that they can continue to run their their operations.
So it's not like there's it's not really it's not.
It's money that guarantees their survivability and so it's going

(14:35):
to be well received and yeah, you know, so look
it's good. And one thing I didn't find interesting was
one of the niches was for peacekeeping, which is another
way of saying police force. Now it's police police numbers
in the in the area. So I found that when
the people start to hide that while using peacekeeping initiatives,
well that's just the Indigenous police operations, which is great,

(14:58):
just but say forward and that's I think that represents
about two thirds of that that money. Yeah, it's been allocated,
so but good news for the organizations that are going
to receive the money.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, and I think obviously the show of force right
now in Ala Springs it's needed. You know, it's in
the headlines for all the wrong reasons. So it's good
that finally there'll be some good news coming out of there.
And of course the Chief Minister Leaf Nacio's down there
with the Prime Minister. She's been calling on the Prime
Minister to commit to a number of things for a
plan around safety for the territory. And so you know,

(15:30):
this money is welcome and it is for those programs
which are as existing, but it needs they needs certainty,
so of course it's welcome. I mean, no matter what happens,
our government will fight as a territory first government. So
we'll be asking both the current Prime Minister and a
future Prime Minister for all the commitments that we need.
But I think those remote policing efforts is a really
important part of this. As you touched on, you know,
we need to make sure our communities are safe right

(15:51):
across the territory.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Any word on whether the Prime Minister is going to
commit to those other seven key aims or initiatives that
old raised that we know that the Coalition leader Peter
Dutton had agreed that he would go along with if
elected when the federal election happens.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, and I think that's one of the reasons that
the Chief rearranged all of her last couple of days
and today to be able to go down to Alice
Springs and iball the Prime Minister. And I mean she
has been in conversations with him and with the Senators
and House of Reps in that space, but she now
wants to eyeball him again and say, come on mate,
we need a commitment. You know, the opposition has committed.
It's now time for you to really show how valuable

(16:32):
the territory is for the whole of Australia.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Selena, what do you make of it? I mean, obviously
it is hopefully going to be a good thing and
a good continuation for some of those programs that are
already operating.

Speaker 5 (16:44):
Yeah, Katie, this is very much welcomed by our our
labor opposition. This is something when we were in government.
We were pushing the federal government, both federations, the former
Liberal Coalition and our federal Labor government to make sure
that we had that long term investment here in the
Northern Territory because it's about communities thriving. It's about making
sure that we have those programs that make a difference

(17:07):
in the long run. And Katie, one of the key
programs that's funded by nt RAY they're Remote Average Investment,
which is being signed off today is the Family's First
Teachers Program. Of fact, so many people would know about that.
That's run by the Department of Education here in the
Northern Territory. And I'll give you a great example, Katie,
of where this makes a huge difference. So last year

(17:28):
in the community of Gunbalunya, twelve students graduated their Year
twelve certificates and they were all part of that initial
Famili's first teacher pilot program thirteen years before that. So
when we're talking about long term change and investment to
ensure that our communities and our people in the territory thrive,
you know, these young people now have great job prospects

(17:49):
being Year twelve graduates, you know they can thrive in
their community or out of their community if they choose
to go. But that's these programs are so important and
I just wanted to add, I know Gary to about peacekeeping.
It's not just about remote policing. There's also some really
successful justice initiatives across the territory in some of our

(18:10):
remote communities which are about employing peacekeepers. They're not police officers,
they're not abortinal liaison police officers. But these peacekeepers are
about community harmony and ultimately community safety. But it's around
the focus is around justice and how do we ensure
that there's community initiatives to stop more of the cycle

(18:31):
of crime, more of the coming out in and out
of a community because of a reason around justice.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
What communities do they work in?

Speaker 5 (18:42):
What are my communities Katie in Grid Islands in Uppercamba
and Urugu Communities on Grid Island in the archipelago. Through
their local Decision Making agreement, justice is one of their
five key priorities and they have peacekeepers operating in those
two communities. So you know, there's some of these really
think local initiatives, homegrown grassroots initiatives, and they'll have the

(19:05):
opportunity now to be funded or apply for funding through
this long term investment that is being signed off today,
so it's very much welcomed by our Labor opposition.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, and just adding to what Selena has said there
those community peacekeepers. It's a very new initiative which is
part of the Aboriginal Justice Agreement, which both when we're
in opposition and the Labor government signed up to. So
it's a very much a bipartisan agreement that it can
work on those long term solutions. It is a very
new initiative so that the initial work with some of

(19:36):
just a few communities around the Northern Territory. They do
have things like the Law and Justice groups which determine
with the judge some of those alternatives to custodies and
things like that. So we don't have a lot of
data at the moment. At the moment, the feedback is that,
you know, it feels like there's some change that's happening
at the grassroots, which is which is a good result.
But of course we don't have much data. So I'm

(19:58):
very keen on ensuring that we see the quantitative data
and the qualitape data come out of those those few
communities that do have it, so we can look at
what we can look.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
I think that that's a good point to make. But
also I'm just reading right now a statement as well
from Senator Karen Little, the Shadow Minister for Child Protection
and the Prevention of Family Violence. Now, she said an
audit of Indigenous health service performance should be the first
task before any money flows, before these services are on
the frontline of closing the gap.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Now.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
She's made this comment following the Prime Minister's announcement of
over eight hundred million dollars for remote communities in the
Northern Territory, part of that reoccurring funding agreement negotiated with
states and territories to close the gap in Indigenous health. Now,
I know I'm sort of bringing together a couple of
different things here, but the point about whether there should
be an audit of some services before additional money is

(20:50):
flowing in is more the point that I'm wanting to make.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
And we are.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
Talking enormous, enormous amounts of taxpayer funded or taxpayer funding
and money, and people want to make sure it's working.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
Yeah, I agree, there needs to be KPIs and there
needs to be regular reviews of these programs. I've just
finished working for the Youth Justice Minister in Queensland, and
she was very good at making sure that the programs
that they were putting in place for the government there
were reviewed, and the reviews were constant and every twelve
months that they wanted to make sure that the money

(21:22):
that was being spent by taxpayers was being spent the
right way and for the right purpose and in the
right areas, so that anything that wasn't working was to go.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
So that's right.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
It's not always just about the money that goes in.
I mean, we saw the Primeister come to Alice Springs
two years ago announces the two hundred fifty million dollars.
We still don't even really know where that was spent
or what those outcomes were, and I know people in
out Springs certainly don't see that any difference specifically about
that money. It's sort of only been this last couple
of months when we've had a lot of the changes
we've made as a new government. So I think it's

(21:52):
critically important those funds. One, they need to be ensure
they're going to the right places who have the right outcomes,
and just continuing to keep all of those people who
get that money accountable.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
And we know we're heading into a federal election this year.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
We've spoken about this on the show on numerous occasions
over the last week or so, and earlier in the
week we also learned that there was going to be
a big funding boost for public hospitals, including here in
the Northern Territory. So the federal government investing one point
seven billion dollars to cut weight times in emergency departments
and manage ramping. So that's going to see the Commonwealth's

(22:23):
contribution to state run hospitals increase by twelve percent to
thirty four billion dollars. The Health Minister Mark Butler saying
the Northern Territory is going to get the largest increase.
So he said, without intervention, the Commonwealth share of funding
for Northern Territory public hospitals would drop well below thirty percent,
requiring the Northern Territory government to fund more than seventy

(22:46):
percent of operating costs of arguably one of the most
pressured public hospital systems in the jurisdiction. So look, I'll
say from the art set, it's good that the Northern
Territory has become a bit of a focus for the
federal government this week. Obviously, this big announcement when it
comes to Alice Springs this morning of the ongoing funding,
but also in terms of the funding for our hospitals

(23:08):
that was announced earlier in the week. I mean, you know,
in elections coming when all this money sort of starts
getting you know, flowing through, but there is no doubt
that funding is required, particularly when you talk about our
public hospitals.

Speaker 4 (23:23):
I guess the thing about this, this fifty one million
is is it going to reduce weight times? How is
it going to be? I mean, the money will flow
to the territory government, so they'll have to work out
how that's going to be implementing and Murray you might
be just expand on that, but that's the thing I
think people will be asking. You know, they've got to
have faith that it will reduce weight times and it
is going to be you know, it was used to

(23:44):
the announcement was used to spend the Medicare scare, and
it was also used to you know, and we're going
to protect your public hospitals. So yeah, very political in
the way it was delivered, but doesn't give you detail
on how it's actually going to reduce weight.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Times and enable people to be able to see a
specialized to be able to get in to actually see
the you know, the medical professionals that they need to.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
See, which we hear like every day on the text line.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
People you know, women contact me and go, Katie, I've
got a breslamp, but I'm not actually able to get
in to see somebody for weeks and weeks if they're
lucky or able to get in for a scan. So
these are the kinds of things that people want to
know that funding like this is actually going to make a.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Difference, absolutely, Katie, and I think, like we've all said,
all of the funding is absolutely welcome, but we just
need to make sure that we can work with the
federal government, whoever that might be post election, to ensure
that we can deliver it in the right areas. Sometimes
those agreements get signed up in the past and they're
quite prescriptive and they kind of don't hit the mark

(24:46):
of what is needed for territorians and for hospitals here.
And we know that our eds are absolutely overworked and
there's just the long waiting times, as you say, for
all those surgeries. My understanding is that we're still very
heavily underfunded from the FEDS in the public health system.
I think we are a second lowest in the country,
and so of course, like of all the funding we get,

(25:07):
we have to make a dollar equal ten because we
need to make the most of it. So it's about
ensuring that the money that we do allocate to the
different things throughout our health system is going to be
things that do improve those wait times and of course
patient care. And I mean it's to be remissive me
to mention that we have seen waste in the health system,
like as an example, you know the complete bungle of

(25:30):
the Acacia health system of the two hundred million you
know that are cost and it's I think that's sixty
one million over budget, and there's all these things. And
of course we have Selena on the Lion who was
the Health Minister and the Digital Minister as well, so
she's fully aware of that system and the problems that
it still has and that we have to now come
in and fix because we can't have our doctors and
nurses being held back in patient care because of an

(25:51):
IT system.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
I mean, Selena, there is no doubt that that IT
system has had a massive, massive budget blowout.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
I mean, should we have down a different path.

Speaker 5 (26:02):
Well, Katie, this was a program in the IT system
to upgrade that was over twenty years overdue. So I mean,
obviously the cost have have been a big focus, but
in terms of the operating system, I haven't heard the
CLP talk about the good news stories around help that
we have, you know, I think it was ninety percent

(26:23):
of the territory hospitals and clinics are now on that
new system and operating, and there's still some very critical
issues for the emergency department for Darwin and the Palmerston hospitals,
but overall it upgraded new system. You know, maybe people
should be left in the stone age in help or something.
I don't know what the CLP.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
It's sort of.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Hard to do when we've about it, and it's when
there's a when it's you know, when we've gone from
the IT rollout that was due to cost sixty one
million and now it's requiring one hundred and twenty seven
million to complete the project in full. Like, it's a
lot of money. So while there might be positives to it,
it's a huge.

Speaker 5 (26:59):
Blowout, Katie. What I will say is that it doesn't
matter what government is in power, when your loved ones
or you need care at our hospitals, who want the
best possible services from our medical professionals and the staff
at our hospitals. So that big announcement about the one
point b into public hospitals nationwide and the key's cut off,

(27:20):
that is going to make a huge difference and it's
very much welcome. I think what we're going to see
is more ability in the Northern Territory. We're actually the
least funded, with the lowest funded, not the second. Like
Marie Claire said, we are the least funded jurisdiction when
it comes to hospital services in the nation. So for
the complexities of the Northern Territory, this is going to

(27:42):
make a huge difference. And I've said on your show
a few times, Katie that the billion dollars in education
is going to make a difference in the territory, securing
our housing, remote and urban deals in the Northern Territory,
and I always said health was the next big item,
the big ticket item for the territory to not just
get up up to par Katie, but to make sure

(28:03):
that our hospitals and our clinics and our services in
the Northern Territory can support not just the medical professionals
of the staff, but support that journey of health in
the Northern Territory for territories, so it's going to make
a huge difference, Selena.

Speaker 4 (28:17):
Unlike Selena, you're absolutely correct. But the issue though, of
all the money wasted on a kasha is money that's
not being spent in health now. And you're right, people
do deserve the best possible service, you know, and that's
obviously what you were trying to deliver. But the issue
here is there was a lot of money wasted and
someone should have been keeping an eye on that.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
Yeah, well spot on, Gary.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Look, we might take a very quick break and when
we come back, we're going to talk a little bit
more about those budget blowouts. In fact, you are listening
to Mix one oh four nine's three sixty.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
You are listening to the week that.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Was and in the studio, well, we have got Murray
Claire Boothby, the Attorney General. We've also got Gary ship Way,
head of news at the NT News, and Selena Ubo
live from Tenant Creek, the leader.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
Of the opposition.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Now, I do want to talk about the fact that
the Treasurer of bill Yan and Arts st earlier this
week that he's going to take action to repair what
he's described as Labour's debt legacy. So we spoke a
little bit about this before the break, but he is
continuing to pledge to protect public service jobs.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
He's also set to.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Remove Labour's debt cap, introducing legislation in the February sittings
of Parliament to.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
Repeal it now.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
He revealed earlier in the week that the territories forecast
accessible borrowing for twenty eight twenty nine will projected to
hit fifteen billion dollars, while outlining a number of financial
failures that he says were caused by the previous government,
including a failure to allocate any operational funding to the
Darwin Art Gallery estimated to be at least six million

(29:50):
dollars a year, and the Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander Art
Gallery in Alice Springs that project estimated to be in
excess of ten million dollars for the operational costs as
I understand it now, Selena Rubo, you joined us earlier
in the week and you raised concerns about the scaling
back of the gallery and Alice Springs and said that
the COLP really doesn't have a vision for the territory.

Speaker 5 (30:15):
Yeah, Katie, I mean we've been very concerned listening to
Alice Springs, particularly businesses in the last couple of weeks
once that announcement was made by the COLP to scale back.
The idea was that we would have a national significant
project here in the Northern Territory that would be of
a magnitude and of scale that would create not just

(30:37):
the interest in the actual project, the social and the
cultural interest in the project, but the economic benefits of
the territory and the visitor numbers. And I know you
spoke to the tourism Central Australia as well, Katie, but
I mean that's been a big people in Alice Springs
have made and businesses in Alice Springs have made significant
decisions over the last couple of years where they bought

(30:58):
particular properties, tested in their businesses to be able to
benefit from that long term vision around that scale of
that national project. So it's extremely disappointed, disappointing that we're
not only going to have a you know, a B grade,
C grade even project in the Northern Territory now because
of that decision when the FILP came to government to downscale,

(31:20):
but we're also going to see businesses not thriving the
way that they anticipate and what have been planningful for
the last couple of years.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
O, Katie, I want to scale it back for your
lists you've already who will understand.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
I want to in a different way. May I want
to get back.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
To basics on this right, if you are a household
or you're a business, you will have a household budget
or business operational expenses. You don't go out and blow
all of your savings or investments that you've accumulated over
time on one big infrastructure project or you know, like
what capital WEX cost, whatever it is in your business,

(32:01):
you need to plan for the operations of that. And
that's what we've seen the government do over the last
eight years is announce all these big, huge investments, which
is taxpayer investments like the Darwin Art Gallery, like the
Original Art Gallery, like the Tiger Beret and Overpass, and
we can't even afford to run those art galleries because
they never budgeted for it. And so now we're seeing
a huge budget blowout, we're hitting the debt ceiling, which

(32:24):
it was Labor that introduced that to try and run
in their own costs because they knew they couldn't manage it.
No other jurisdiction in the country has this, so of
course we have to remove that. But the biggest difference
between a CELP government the new government and what Labour
did for eight years is we're going to rebuild the
economy through our frameworks, changing the rules of the game
and think that's things like the Territory Coordinator, so we

(32:45):
can have more private investment with certainty, you know, get
rid of all those noisy people who complain about everything
and nothing gets off the ground through the Territory Coordinator
and through a proper process, ensure that we have the
best payroll tax rules in the country. So the business
is what I set up here or they want to
move here and they want to grow because of course
parallel taxes attacks on jobs and growth. And then there's
other things like our construction industry and having population growth

(33:08):
through our homegrown building grants. I mean that is the
best in the country as well. So this is all
the reasons for people who live around Australia or from
overseas come to the Northern Territory, put down your roots here,
build yourself a home which helps with our housing problem.
Create your business here and you will have a wonderful,
wonderful life. And that's all our territories ever want. We're

(33:29):
so proud of this place, and I think that these
changes in the way in which we do business, to
entract private investment, to build business confidence in the territory
is what we need.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Look, I get what you're saying, and take that on board.
But I know that you know, labor would say that
the colp will cut jobs and they're going to privatize
and that kind of thing. Now you're saying that you're
not going to cut jobs. But then when you look
at what's going on now within corrections, many would argue, well,
this is a privatization of an arm of corrections. Now
that's just a small part and a small thing to say.

(34:01):
The other thing that I will say is that over
the years, you know, I don't think I don't think
labor has wanted there to not be the investment from
from private investment investors into the Northern territory.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
Like I certainly.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Understand that with things like like with fracking, there's been
you know, a disagreement. So I'm sure at different times
about who thinks it's a good idea and who doesn't.
But nonetheless, you know, I don't think they've had a
will to not have things going in the NT, so
I guess my point is for a lot of Territorians
that have lived here for a long time, we're maybe
feeling like it's not a PTSD, but it's sort of

(34:38):
a well, look, I've been here and for you know,
the last fifteen years that people that the government wants
to get things going in the Northern Territory and things
aren't going.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
And that's right, Katie, and that's exactly why we're doing
things differently, because we're not going to accept the status
quo that has been happening over a long time. We're
making a lot of changes and I mean you mentioned
corrections again, and I think unfortunately corrections is now sadly
a growing industry because we needed to get our community
safe and we have prisons that are absolutely a capacity
putting pressure on them. So we're just literally as a

(35:08):
territorian and as a territory, we cannot afford any job cuts.
So now that's why the language from the Labor Party
is old and it's outdated, because they would know that
if any government cuts public servants, they're going to leave
the territory and that's a worse position for the territory.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Speak we've now got is we're like you guys, and
I totally understand it. We can't afford to be cutting
public servants because we won't if they leave the Northern Territory,
our population is going to you know, to deteriorate further.
But we are hearing from you guys that the way
in which we're going to get the economy moving in
the Northern Territory is private investment. Now, as I say,
that's what we've been hearing for like the last eight years.

(35:44):
So is it, you know, like, how do we guarantee
that this is actually going to happen because people are
a bit gun shy.

Speaker 4 (35:49):
Yeah, red tape and green tape, you.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Know, beige as well. They were saying, you.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
Know, the business people I speak to, and this is
where the ministers event on Monday will be very important
because I think it's going to out lay out her
economic blueprint for at least the next twelve months. But
you know, people I speak to, they it's all too hard.
Dipples a roadblock. We have third party reviews that I

(36:17):
know the governments is going to remove them. They're going
to push that through Parliament next week. So there'll be
i mean, major projects being held up because they've weaponized
those groups that oppose those developments, you know, weaponize them
to delay projects and get in the way, even though
these projects have already been through environmental impacts studies and

(36:38):
so there's a lot of roadblocks. And I think the
government's challenge will be getting into the departments to make
sure it's not their agenda. Make sure it's the government's agenda,
because department people often imms and new governments, the department
people can seize on that the fact that the ministers
are new, and they'll lead them down a path that
they want to lead them down. So that's the challenges

(36:59):
make order to you know, they remove these roadboxs, because
there are people who do want to invest in the
business people I've been spected, they want to put their
money on the table. These are local people and but yes,
it's all too hard at the moment.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
And we value our public servants, Katie, and I think
you know what Gary touches on there with the mindset
of the public servants and the way the new minister's
coming on board. I mean, of course we're new ministers
and that's okay because what our job now is that
is that change management across people, departments and of course territorians,
because we don't want to see the same suffering and
going backwards. We always have a and our departments and

(37:34):
all our wonderful public servants who have been really working hard.
I mean, you've seen the end of last year, all
the change that was made. It was our public servants
that helped us make that change. They're on this journey
with us, So the next twelve months is actually really
exciting for the territory.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
One question I do have for you, Selena and also
for you Mary Clare Boothby, in terms of looking at
operational costs forecasting ahead. Is it normal to forecast head
how much an operational how much it's going to cost
to operate something like a museum should it have been done?
I mean, are you guys going to do it into

(38:08):
the future, Murray clear, because it's easy. It seems like
a very easy way to hide costs.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
That's right, Katie. And coming into government as a minister
and looking through how it was in the past with
the budgets and how the operational costs work. I am
just dumbfounded because my background is commercial. It's business, and
we would never put a business plan forward which didn't
have forward projections of all the expenses that you had
to do, and you know, you'd have all these assumptions

(38:32):
on things that might grow and things outside your control.
So that and then you check on it every single
month to make sure that you weren't going in the
wrong direction.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Selena, why was it something that didn't happen with those museums? Oh? Sorry,
art galleries, I should say galleries.

Speaker 5 (38:47):
Yeah, Katie. When there's infrastructure costs, obviously that's around the bill,
that's about the bricks and mortar. And we know every
I think everyone knows and understands that operational costs could
be stuff. It could be you know, what are the
despetiers everything or everything that's needed to create an environment
where that building, that office, that hotel, whatever it is,

(39:09):
is able to operate. So when the builds occur, the
government goes through and hopefully Mary Claire will learn this
now that she's near to government. The government goes through
their yearly budget. We all know that that's what's released
in May of each year. They go through budget cabinet.
There's usually a couple of different meetings to go through
all the different proposals around projects around infrastructure in particularly

(39:34):
is a huge, huge book on infrastructure to go through,
and then there's also the mid year Report as well,
which is classic on that class. I know you haven't
gone through your first budget cabinet, but what you'll learn
in your first budget cabinet, Murray Claire, is that you'll
have the infrastructure costs in your budget. You'll have your

(39:56):
anticipated or forward estimates around infrastructure. You'll also have your
operation and your forward infrastructure, so you usually plan when
an infrastructure project is coming to completion. That's when you'll
start to cost in and budget what your operational costs
are until the end R team will start to do.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
That's what you've made.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
That's what you did in the last eight years. Waited
till the end and hoped and prayed and it didn't
come off for you.

Speaker 5 (40:21):
Well, it's a terrible way and break the years of
years and decades of government process and good luck to
you absolutely.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Because we're not going to accept the status corn. I
guess that's a difference between labor and the seal Peace
alener is that you just buried your head in the
sand and thought it was going to be okay, whereas
this government we are actually going to take the bull
by the horns and go with it so that we
can grow our economy.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
Well, well, I'm.

Speaker 5 (40:41):
Very comforted to hear that, Murray Claire, because we still
have underfunded commitments by the Seealpeak government, a new prison
that could be up to a billion dollars, disbanding local
government that's about a billion dollars. Raising every floodway kadi
in the Northern Territory. If it's too late to book
COVID that's estimated at billion dollars. So I hope that
private investment that's the pay for your underfunded commitments.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
There.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Look, we're gonna have to take a very quick break.
You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three
p sixty. It is the week that was.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Well, time flies in here.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
It is just a couple of minutes away from ten
o'clock and if you've just joined us, well you've missed
a heck of an hour. You can always go back
on the iHeartRadio app and have a listen, or head
to the Mix one oh four nine website.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
But just before we wrap up for the morning.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Some good news earlier in the week with the fact
that we're going to have some direct flights from Darwin
to the Gold Coast.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
That is good news.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Also the direct flights of course from Alice Springs to Cans.
I think everybody in the Northern Territory, no matter where
you live, you want to see more connectivity. And it's
something that we have really had deteriorate over the years.
And it happens from time to time, you know, you
have these new announcements of different routes and then they

(41:55):
last for a little while and then they're gone again.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Yeah, and this is I mean, as we know, Katie,
we've been five in this fight for a very long time.
But it is fantastic news. I think over the last
four weeks there's been you know, four big announcements you know,
Air Asia. It started with Quantus Jetstar. Of course, Spurgeon
even increasing them after sort of talking about not doing
something and then ended up coming to the party because
there's a competition. I guess that's the point we need.
You know, these are these are long term, sort of

(42:18):
stable airlines rather than the quick fixed type chiepis that
come in and then leave and fold within weeks.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Well, the guy wanted Bonza to exactly but do you
know because it was it was obviously helping regional Australia,
but yeah, it's tough.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
We need areas you to succeed too. As a to
bring some competition. Well, the inter News had a aviation
roundtable earlier this week and which mel Plane pulled together
and we had the Aviation Minister there or Asian Engagement
Minister Robin Kale. We had Virgin Airlines senior executives there,
we had the Jetsar senior executive, quantus representatives of the

(42:52):
mining sector, the gas sector. So a lot of positivity
about getting new flights of a lot of anks about
not having enough flights because obviously in the resource sect
with that plans for that, we're going to need more
more workers, We're going to need more services. So it
looks a lot of good intent with what they want

(43:14):
to do. A lot of promises, but a lot at
the end of the day's going to come down to
bumps on seats.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Absolutely to support the airlines, we'll get people here, plus
ensure that people do travel around the place to these
just destinations using those flights.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Well, and Selena, I'm sure you'll agree with me, you know.
And you also don't want to be catching them at
two o'clock in the morning when you've got little kids
with you.

Speaker 5 (43:33):
Oh that's it. And we know territories love to travel, Katie,
but they love to come back home. And we know
it can be very isolating for many people to connect
to family and to colleagues across the country and obviously
overseas as well. So the fantastic news for the territory.
I know when we were in government, Labor had the
Territory Aviation Attraction Scheme and that had three hundred and

(43:54):
thirty four thousand new seats with aviation to the territory
over a period of time. Seeing more of these lights
concerned and more of these airlines looking to the territory
and to be based and run services and routes in
the territory is fantastic news the territories and of course
our families who want to come and visit us as well.
We want to show territory too, so we want to

(44:15):
have it both ways. It's great news for everybody.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
Well, look we are going to have to wrap up
for the morning. I'm so sorry everybody. Well, it's always
time flies in here. Selena Rubo from Tenant Creek this morning.
Thank you so much for your time.

Speaker 5 (44:28):
Thank you so much, Katie, and thanks to your listeners.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
A big thank you Tomari Claire Boothby, the Attorney General
of the Northern Territory, thank you, thank.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
You, and don't forget to tune into the Chief Minister's
Year Ahead speech on Monday morning, because that'll be really
showing down how are going to bed down and reforms
to move the territory forward for the next twelve months, and.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
I believe we will be pre recording an interview with
her before she does that as well, so we'll try
to get a bit further detail. Garry ship Way, lovely
to have you back in the studio.

Speaker 4 (44:55):
Mate Shady, it was great to be on and thank
you listening

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Head of our news with the Northern Territory and we'll
catch up with you all again very soon.