Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode is not suitable for children to listen to
or overhear. It may contain course language, adult themes, and
graphic descriptions. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners are advised
that the following program may contain the names of people
who have died. A perfect storm. The true story of
(00:21):
the Chamberlains.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I think Azaria would have lasted a matter of minutes.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
There were certain people within the Northern Territory Police who
were determined.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
To get her.
Speaker 5 (00:31):
People were saying to me, Oh, you're going there to
see that woman who killed a child.
Speaker 6 (00:36):
Bad things happen to good people.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Episode twelve, Death by Dingo.
Speaker 7 (00:42):
Hello, I'm John Buck. I've just finished reading research that
starts with this paragraph. I know of nowhere in the
world where there is a judicial system in which miscarriages
of justice never occur.
Speaker 8 (00:57):
Recent history in.
Speaker 7 (00:57):
Australia and the United Kingdom vividly illustrates the serious imperfections
of what are generally regarded as reasonably good judicial systems.
The author is clear, no system is perfect, and you
don't see the shortcomings in a system until someone like
Lindy Chamberlain makes you see them. Now, I'll tell you
(01:20):
who the author of that passage is. Later the finallet's
return to nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 6 (01:25):
Telling him we don't agree and pointing out the authorities,
asking for some.
Speaker 8 (01:30):
We should be.
Speaker 7 (01:30):
At the end of the Chamberlain's story, Lindy is out
of jail, the government has the findings of a Royal commission,
and the evidence that convicted the Chamberlain's has been disproven. However,
Justice Marling had left enough doubt in his summary to
encourage those who never believed Lindy Chamberlain to persist with
(01:53):
their actions. There was no provision in the Northern Territory
Criminal Code to supp apply a regular path to an
inquiry into guilt following conviction, distinct from the appeal process.
Steve Hatton's government moved to the edge of its legal
powers and pardoned Michael and Lindy.
Speaker 9 (02:15):
All our legal advice is that what we did was
the appropriate course of action. It's consistent with actions being
taken in similar situations elsewhere in Australia and overseas. Any
other consideration with your matter for legal advice, So how.
Speaker 10 (02:28):
Do you see the difference between a pardon which you
have and the convictions being quashed?
Speaker 8 (02:34):
Is there a great deal of difference in your opinion.
Speaker 11 (02:37):
There's an otion of difference between those two. One to
quash of conviction means it was wrong, it should never
have been and it was not some in the first place.
To get a pardon means you did what they said
you did, and you've been a good little girl. You've
been a good little boy. So there you can go
out and play. And that's ridiculous.
Speaker 12 (03:00):
At a heated news conference, Attorney General Darryl Mansei rejected
suggestions that the report warranted.
Speaker 7 (03:07):
Felicity Muffett is a Walkley Award winning journalist and former
senior reporter specializing in legal affairs for The Seven Yarde.
I spoke to her about the Chamberlain's case as it
veered into the absurd.
Speaker 13 (03:22):
It's it's a really strange decision, and I guess these
days you would probably see it unfold very differently where
you could expect it after that Royal Commission, Trevor Marling
was going to find what he did find, and you
would be prepared to say, look, you know, we don't
(03:45):
just pardon you, but we're going to take steps to
move to quite formally quash these convictions. So I don't know.
I guess there was a view that they wanted you
not to cave in and give in. But as far
as a lot of people were concerned, the Mauling Report
(04:10):
had set.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
The path and.
Speaker 13 (04:13):
Appropriate action should have been taken to demonstrate to the
Chamberlains that redress would occur to the full extent. I think,
you know, maybe they thought a pardon was enough.
Speaker 7 (04:26):
The Government rightly, with respect, considered that such a step
would be an unwarranted intrusion by the legislature into the
domain of the judiciary. Of course, as you'd expect, Stuart
Tipple didn't let Daryl Mansey or the Government think the
matter was resolved.
Speaker 14 (04:44):
What a pardon does is just relieve the chairmans from
the consequences of the conviction.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
So we're written today telling him we don't agree.
Speaker 14 (04:51):
Pointing out the authorities asking for a special Act of
Parliament a.
Speaker 7 (04:55):
Big part, and Michael Chamberlain also spoke to the stalemate
that he was in the middle of.
Speaker 15 (05:02):
It's absolutely essential to us, as it is to our children,
that we our names are clear and that we are exonerated,
and that there's no more time or money spent on
this disastrous case.
Speaker 8 (05:15):
Eventually the law was changed.
Speaker 7 (05:17):
Section four to three three A was added to the
Northern Territory Criminal Code. Where a person has been convicted
of a crime or an indictable offense, the Attorney General may,
at the request of the convicted person, refer the case
to the court to consider or again consider whether the
(05:38):
conviction should be quashed and a judgment and verdict of
acquittal entered. But as Stuart Tipple was about to discover,
the government may have changed the law, but it had
not changed its mind.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
I was so delighted when after putting the pressure on
the government they did actually enact special legislation that allowed
us to go back before an appeal court and to
get the acquittal, which readinstate of the Chamberlain's presumption of innocence.
That's what I wanted. But we expected that when we
(06:17):
went to the court that it would be a done deal,
that the Northern Territory would have learnt and that we
would have just handed up consent orders. But we got
the shock of our lives when the Council for the
Northern Territory stood up and opposed our application and said
there really needs to be a rehearing because effectively The
(06:38):
Commissioner is one person, and we really need to revisit
all of this evidence again.
Speaker 7 (06:46):
Malcolm Brown, the veteran print journalist who covered the Chamberlain
case from day one, shares his thoughts.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
The Crown opposed it, so Michael Adams opposed it.
Speaker 8 (06:57):
And I wonder why on earth.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
I asked one of the lawyers, the creneral lawyers out there,
why they're opposing. He said, oh, well, it's just their
opinion of one tribunal. Another tribunal could have made another decision,
or what the hell is that all about? You could say,
anyone convicted, so it was only one tribunal.
Speaker 6 (07:16):
Well, fortunately the court gave him short shrift and they
decided that they could very well rely on Marling's report,
and that's what they did.
Speaker 7 (07:27):
On September fifteenth, nineteen eighty eight, Judges Ash, Nader and
Kearney quashed the Chamberlain's convictions and entered verdicts of acquittal.
Ash referred to Justice Morling's work, which had quote obviously
been conducted fairly in accordance with the rules of natural justice.
And the Commissioner is a judge of the Federal Court
(07:49):
with a high and if I may say so with
respect eminently deserved reputation. It is therefore only sensible to
give great weight to the fire and conclusions of the commission.
Speaker 12 (08:06):
Michael Chamberlain closed his eyes, looked at the ceiling and
began to weep. His wife, who sat rigid with tension,
also dissolved into tears as she hugged her lawyers.
Speaker 13 (08:16):
And of course today all of that would have been telecast.
There would have been cameras in the court and everybody
would have seen it, and the possibly also seen their
emotion inside the court, so that that was all kept
from the public, and only those who in the court
saw that. So when they came out and walked once
(08:39):
again through the media pack and said nothing, but Michael
held up that victory signal, and we were sort of thinking, well,
something huge has happened, that this is their moment. What
are they going to say? And then when they said
nothing in felt note conference and just walked to the car,
(09:03):
Please say something, Michael, how do you feel? I was
always thinking how awful it must have been for them
to go back inside that same court building where they
had endured so much misery, you know, and and so
much scrutiny and how appalling it must have been to
(09:23):
even come back to Darwin and be there and you know,
separate it from their kids and all of that. And
so that's why I said at the start of that story,
they came back, you know, to the Supreme Court. And
then I thought after, you know, as they were leaving,
how glad they must have been to get the hell
(09:44):
out of the place, you know. And if it had
been me, I never would have gone back to the
Northern Territory. I just thought, and I wondered what would happen.
So we agreed that the crew would go out to
the airport and just get that moment of them leave
the territory finally cleared and well on the way to
(10:06):
achieving some of their objectives. And that's when Lindy was
ascending the steps of the anst aircraft and throughout the
victory signal, and that while they hadn't spoken outside the court,
that just said it, you know, we're on our way home.
And it was such an important moment for them. After
a long and.
Speaker 12 (10:25):
Bitter fight for justice, Lindy Chamberlain at last was leaving
Darwin acknowledged as an innocent woman in the eyes of
the law. It was clearly a sweet victory solicity moment.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
One of the judges who exonerated the Chamberlain's in nineteen
eighty eight was John Nader QC. Nada was the author
of that paragraph. I started the show with, I know
of nowhere in the world where there's a judicial system
in which miscarriages of justice never occur, And he also wrote,
we must constantly strive to make our own system progressively
(11:02):
less prone to miscarriages of justice. Nata also addressed something
which I could not understand.
Speaker 8 (11:08):
As I got to this part of the story. What
was the hold up? Who was stalling? Why were they stalling?
Speaker 7 (11:16):
Nada wrote years later, the Chamberlain case shows that there
must be a regular mechanism for bringing the matter to
the notice of the Supreme Court. It is not enough
to be able to petition the executive. If a case
has or has taken on political overtones, the judgment of
the executive may be clouded by bias.
Speaker 8 (11:40):
There you have it, bias.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
That's what the problem was, And sadly bias did not
go away where their convictions quashed.
Speaker 8 (11:52):
The Chamberlains. Let Stuart Tipple address the media.
Speaker 14 (11:55):
Chailin's are very grateful to finally have been named clear
to publicly thank all of those decent and bear minded
people who supported them and made the day possible.
Speaker 8 (12:07):
As Tipple had predicted, the media would always be interested
in the Chamberlain story if there was a new angle,
and that new angle was a matter of compensation.
Speaker 14 (12:18):
The real tragedy is that the victory doesn't by itself
compensate them for what that's happened, goes without saying that
they should be compensated, and in that respect, the buck
firmly stops with the Northern Territory government.
Speaker 7 (12:33):
You'd think that it was going to be hard for
the Northern Territory government to deny compensation from this point.
So let me share with you the fact that the
Northern Territory Chief Minister, Steve Hatton told local newspapers that
he never bought Missus Chamberlain's story of a baby snatching dingo,
but he didn't believe she should have gone to jail
(12:54):
for murder either. So of course nothing happened with sation.
It was all about politics, and the politics of the
Chamberlain case peaked when the Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawk
spoke to reporters.
Speaker 8 (13:12):
Hawk was not only the.
Speaker 7 (13:13):
Most senior political figure in the Australian democracy, he was
perhaps the country's most astute judge of public opinion in
the post war period.
Speaker 16 (13:25):
It's quite clear that in the light of the morning
findings that it's going to be have to be a
very significant consideration paid to how you can lead not
really the costs, but the suffering.
Speaker 7 (13:45):
Camel Over the next few years, Azaria Chamberlain's family were
never far from the headlines. The motion picture Evil Angels
A Cry in the Dark with Meryl Streep and Sam
Neil was released to an already polarized nation. Then the
Chamberlain separated and divorced. Carlia chose to live with Michael
(14:10):
Reagan stayed with Lindy, while Aiden divided his time between
the two homes. Lindy met Rick Creighton during a speaking
tour of the USA and they soon married. And then
finally the Northern Territory government decided to pay compensation three
years after the Chamberlains left the Supreme Court, twelve years
(14:35):
after their daughter's death. Bob Collins spoke to the facts
and what was obvious to all.
Speaker 6 (14:42):
It's not as much as the Chamberlain's wanted it's exactly
one point three million dollars more than the Northern Urfy government.
Speaker 13 (14:49):
Wanted to play, making it sound like it was an
awful lot of money, which it probably was in those days.
And to think that in the end it amounted to
one point three you know, I look back on that
now and think, you know, gosh, after everything they've been through,
you know, what could possibly compensate them for what the
(15:10):
horrors that they've been through? And why didn't that happen
you know, rapidly and efficiently and without argument. I don't
know when it.
Speaker 8 (15:23):
Comes to the matter of compensation.
Speaker 10 (15:25):
What's your reaction to mister Everingham's comments today that you
have done well in your dealings with the media financially
and therefore compensation is something you probably don't need.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I think Paul Everingham's comments are about as accurate as
some of the forensic scientists in the trial. He just
doesn't know, and I think what he said has been
really quite unwarranted and very sad.
Speaker 8 (15:46):
I wish you get his facts straight, did you know.
Speaker 13 (15:49):
I think when you go back to those days, there
were still and there was then and there's still is now.
To a degree, you know this intransigent view that oh well,
no sympathy for the Chamberlain still think they might have
done it. And you know, just a hardline attitude like
(16:10):
that that has been taken for so long and it
was so difficult to part from.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
We need to take a quick break and we'll return
to a perfect storm in just a moment. At almost
every juncture of the Chamberlain's public life, Lindy and Michael
had spoken with seven's current affairs hosts Terry Willisy.
Speaker 10 (16:30):
Or They have been extremely traumatic times. No one can
deny that for a second, no matter what they think.
Speaker 8 (16:36):
Of your innocence or guilt.
Speaker 10 (16:37):
But what have been if there have been any highlights
of this saga, what have they been?
Speaker 11 (16:45):
Billa first one, it was a real highlight, was getting
bail and getting Carlia back. I had just been refused
any visits for twelve months because I was so dangerous.
I could not have my daughter visit me on a
(17:07):
patrolled visit with family with waters. I was too dangerous
for that.
Speaker 10 (17:12):
Why were you dangerous?
Speaker 8 (17:14):
Why were well?
Speaker 11 (17:15):
I've been convicted of murder.
Speaker 17 (17:17):
I was a really bad person.
Speaker 11 (17:18):
You see, you can't do this, You can't put another
child's risk, but then I got bail and was sent
home with my child. Despite that, a net was a
major answer to prayer and a major highlight. It was
just the feeling was just unbelievable, and that was a
(17:41):
real high And the rest of the family was waiting
for me. They'd come up to see their little sister,
take her home and give the boys a visit with Mum,
whom they hadn't seen for three months, and they ended
up taking a lot of us home.
Speaker 10 (17:55):
Well, just you mentioned an answer to prayers. How powerful
do you think prayer.
Speaker 11 (17:59):
Is all powerful?
Speaker 10 (18:02):
Can you give us an example of results?
Speaker 8 (18:04):
You see?
Speaker 11 (18:06):
There have been times when I have been absolutely desperate
and not knowing which way to turn, and I've.
Speaker 18 (18:22):
Thought that I would crack up if I didn't get
some help, some support, something give somewhere about something. And
I prayed about it, and I had an incredible sense
(18:44):
of peace. Just don't worry about it. Something is being done,
and I did not know what it was, how it
was happening.
Speaker 19 (18:54):
It took Stuart two days to get through to me,
and when he finally got through, he said, oh, look,
I've been trying a couple of days, but at such
and such time, there was an innocence committee was formed
with legal people and people with respected positions, and I
(19:18):
beg it was the time, the hour everything.
Speaker 7 (19:23):
As the years rolled on, there was another coroner's inquiry,
which resolved nothing. In August twenty ten, thirty years after
Azaria's disappearance, Lindy Chamberlain released a letter to open minded Australians.
In it, she wrote, quote, their own commission proved it
(19:43):
was not me, as I had told them all along.
Please do not forget that a beautiful little girl died
tragically on this date thirty years ago, unquote. Within hours,
the Northern Territory Attorney General Dearlylori said she had asked
the Northern Territory Registrar of Earth's Deaths and Marriages to
(20:04):
determine if the cause.
Speaker 8 (20:06):
Of death is accurate.
Speaker 7 (20:09):
In late twenty eleven, Coroner Elizabeth Morris announced that she
had determined to reopen the inquest into the death of
Azariah Chamberlain.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
And this was the first time that a lady had
been involved in any judicial capacity. And from the moment
I walked into her court, I realized that there's a
whole new atmosphere. Here is a lady who's compassionate and
really wanted to get to the truth. And so the
first hearing was adjourned so they could make some other
(20:40):
lines of an inquiry. And when we came back in June,
they'd done their homework. They'd been able to verify that
there were something like two hundred and thirty Dingo attacks
and even a death since the Chamberlain trial. All the
(21:02):
media were there and the court room was packed. Aiden
actually contacted me and said is it worth me coming?
And I said I think so, and so he at
the last minute made arrangements and he was there to
support his mum. And Michael of course was there. Lindy
was there with her husband.
Speaker 7 (21:22):
Coroner Morris was ready, having considered all of the evidence,
including evidence gathered. Much like Dennis Barrett, she decided to
let a single video camera into the Northern Territory Magistrates Court.
The following Lindy and husband Rick Creighton sat alongside Michael Chamberlain,
along with son Aiden and his wife Anna.
Speaker 8 (21:43):
Generally, Malcolm Brown was.
Speaker 7 (21:45):
There of course, as was Stuart Tipple and Rex Wild QCY.
Speaker 6 (21:52):
And it was just one of those moments you'll never
ever forget. The judgment and finding read out by Elizabeth
Marris was compelling. It was so compassionate.
Speaker 20 (22:04):
In considering now all of the evidence, I am satisfied
that the evidence is sufficiently adequate, clear, cogent, and exact,
and that the evidence excludes all other reasonable possibilities to
find that What occurred on the seventeenth of August nineteen
eighty was that shortly after Missus Chamberlain placed Azaria in
(22:25):
the tent, a dingo or dingoes entered the tent, took
Azaria and carried and dragged her from the immediate area.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
And she made the point that whatever her finding was,
she couldn't replace Azaria. And I think when she started
saying that, she actually broke down.
Speaker 20 (22:44):
Missus Chamberlain Crichton, Mister Chamberlain, Aiden and your extended families,
please accept my sincere sympathy on the death of your
special and loved daughter and sister Azaria. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
For your loss.
Speaker 20 (23:07):
Time does not remove the pain and sadness of the
death of a child.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
And I looked around and I was crying. I don't
think there was a dry eye in the court. And
it was just sort of one of those serendipitous moments
that you think, well, this has been a worthwhile journey.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
Lindy spoke outside to the waiting medium.
Speaker 19 (23:30):
I wanted to get a cry, but I think it
had starting me off.
Speaker 11 (23:34):
Obviously, we're relieved and delighted to come to the end
of this saga.
Speaker 21 (23:43):
This has been a terrifying battle, better at times, but
now some healing and a chance to put our daughter's
spirit to rest.
Speaker 7 (24:00):
What have we learned on this disturbing journey? As I've
documented the death of Azaria Chamberlain and its consequences, Coroner
Dennis Barrett's findings still ring true. Forensic evidence must be
accurate or problems follow. Retired journalist David Jones.
Speaker 22 (24:21):
I think something that came out of the Azaria Chamblain
case is that forensic science is not godlike the forensic
science can obviously be wrong, and that I suppose the
lesson for Australia as a whole, for all of us
as Australians, is to is to keep an open mind
(24:43):
and don't be swayed by forensic science, which needs to
be subject to the closest possible scrutiny.
Speaker 8 (24:52):
Linda Scott has no doubts.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
I definitely think this could happen again. Somebody a little
bit unusual is view differently from a mainstream person. If
somebody doesn't cry when they're expected to cry, yeah, you
see it all the time. Now it could totally happen again.
I don't know what you do about it. I think
you have to have juries. You couldn't just have one
person judging something. But I don't know how you get
(25:21):
the right juries. I don't know how you get them
to be to eradicate everything they've read in the papers.
Or now look with Facebook. Now imagine Lindy Chamberlain today.
There would be all those haters on Facebook. It would
just be out of control. It would be a million
times worse. And so I think when the next Lindy
Chamberlain comes along, it's all going to happen again. It's
going to be another train wreck.
Speaker 7 (25:44):
And let's not forget Stuart Tibble's experience with Lindy and
Michael Chamberlain underneath the courtroom after they were found guilty.
Speaker 6 (25:53):
And we get down there and Michael turns to me
and he just says, so this is British just for you.
And although as many years ago, I'm still haunted by that,
and it's something I keep hearing in my head and
it's one of the things that has kept me determined
(26:13):
to try and improve the system because the system failed.
The system let us down, and I've got absolutely no
doubt it's let other people down and it will continue
to do so.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
Corn and Barrett made another key findings. Wild animals and
tourists do not mix. The late Derek Roff, a veteran
of Kenyan wildlife parks in eighteen years in the Australian Outback,
warned his bosses.
Speaker 23 (26:46):
And we were going to shield a number of dingles, discreetly,
but nevertheless we were going to shield them. Well, I
was not back. I didn't get thee I didn't get
the bullets and what have you. In a fortnight, lad
Assuria disappeared.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
And the very people whose lives were ruined by that
decision held no grudges a matter of weeks after their
daughter's death.
Speaker 11 (27:11):
Lindy Chamberlain, it's not that we've got anything against dingoes
even now. They're very beautiful dogs and they have their
right to their natural habits. But man is spoiling This
man has tampered with the dogs in that area.
Speaker 7 (27:27):
Have we heeded the warnings from Roth Barrett and Lindy Chamberlain.
I asked Professor Bill Ballard, one of Australia's leading dingo experts.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
For mine. What I would like to see come out
of something like this is saying, how can we use
that to improve the way we look at the dingo
now and to actually make this less likely to happen
in the future, Because I see this happening in Fraser Island.
(27:59):
If people don't sort of say this has happened before,
surely we've got to learn something. Surely we've got to
be smarter than we're currently being, or it's just gonna
happened again. And then they're going to say, my god,
(28:19):
this has happened. And like the park rangers saying, you
know this is going to happen, we're in the same
position right here, right now that it's going to happen
again if we're not careful.
Speaker 24 (28:31):
I must have right past him to get to the
baby and taken the baby out. It was sempty, there
was nothing there, and I called my husband straight away.
I come straight out of the tent and called him
at the door.
Speaker 23 (28:45):
They didn't go.
Speaker 24 (28:45):
I'd taken the baby and chased it. I can still
see it. I chased it into the into the bush
and followed it. I realized it was no good, and
as soon as hope, I called out to my husband,
the Dingo's got a baby, and he came running. He
(29:07):
enjoyed up into the bush, but he never stopped to
get a torch and realized it was dark.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
Even though you may only know the words a Dingo's
got my baby from a news report in the eighties
or a TV show in the nineties, there's a reason
why we can still learn from it as we enter
a new year, another new decade. This Perfect Storm impacted
so many lives around and beyond the Airs.
Speaker 8 (29:33):
Rock Campsite at the time.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
Some lives were destroyed, while the careers of others blossomed.
Speaker 6 (29:41):
You've had certain tefts of being done on.
Speaker 7 (29:43):
The n Some turned to alcohol, while others leant on
their faith. Some attempted suicide, while others turned to silence
for their salvation. There's something I never expected to happen
with this project, but I'd like to share it now.
(30:04):
This podcast is by and large about two women, Lindy
and Azaria Chamberlain, and the Perfect Storm production was supported
primarily by women throughout from my sister in Perth, to
the professional archive team in Darwin, my work colleagues from
Perth to Sydney, and so many in between. It should
(30:27):
come as no surprise then that the series has resonated
across the world with women. So let's hear from Sally
Shaw one more time.
Speaker 17 (30:37):
Years later, I after it had all been cut and dry,
Lindy was through they string down and I was with
her in Sydney. We just were going to spend the
day together and it was horrendous. I would have punched
everybody's lights out, like people around her. Then years later,
(30:58):
when it's all been overturned and people are still saying
really nasty things about it, really really nasty things, and
I couldn't cope. But she was just, you know, somehow,
just sailing through and with dignity, and I was ready
to bunch the lines.
Speaker 8 (31:19):
I thought, this is.
Speaker 17 (31:20):
Wrong, you know, so so so it's the prejudice once
started seems to be there. Yeah, you just a few
people have apologized to me saying that you know, I'm
you know, I just want you to know that I
(31:41):
thought this and I was wrong, and they've apologized, and
that was really lovely and beggest them to do that.
But on the whole, the people that were really prejudice
are never going to accept yeah, the truth, You're right
because it just ingrined.
Speaker 7 (32:05):
You know by now that this can all happen again
unless the law is changed. If you feel angry about
what happened and I was, do your best to force
that change and perhaps do what I'm doing. Go to
www dot gg dot go ov dot au and follow
(32:31):
the links to the Australian Honors and Awards. I think
Lindy Chamberlain and Stuart Tipple should be awarded for believing
in the truth. My thanks to Nicky, Simon and Stephen
for helping me create the whole series, and a shout
out to Lynn Penniment and Tan Quay, and thanks to
(32:55):
you for listening and your support.
This episode is not suitable for children to listen to
or overhear. It may contain course language, adult themes, and
graphic descriptions. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners are advised
that the following program may contain the names of people
who have died. A perfect storm. The true story of
(00:21):
the Chamberlains.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I think Azaria would have lasted a matter of minutes.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
There were certain people within the Northern Territory Police who
were determined.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
To get her.
Speaker 5 (00:31):
People were saying to me, Oh, you're going there to
see that woman who killed a child.
Speaker 6 (00:36):
Bad things happen to good people.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Episode twelve, Death by Dingo.
Speaker 7 (00:42):
Hello, I'm John Buck. I've just finished reading research that
starts with this paragraph. I know of nowhere in the
world where there is a judicial system in which miscarriages
of justice never occur.
Speaker 8 (00:57):
Recent history in.
Speaker 7 (00:57):
Australia and the United Kingdom vividly illustrates the serious imperfections
of what are generally regarded as reasonably good judicial systems.
The author is clear, no system is perfect, and you
don't see the shortcomings in a system until someone like
Lindy Chamberlain makes you see them. Now, I'll tell you
(01:20):
who the author of that passage is. Later the finallet's
return to nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 6 (01:25):
Telling him we don't agree and pointing out the authorities,
asking for some.
Speaker 8 (01:30):
We should be.
Speaker 7 (01:30):
At the end of the Chamberlain's story, Lindy is out
of jail, the government has the findings of a Royal commission,
and the evidence that convicted the Chamberlain's has been disproven. However,
Justice Marling had left enough doubt in his summary to
encourage those who never believed Lindy Chamberlain to persist with
(01:53):
their actions. There was no provision in the Northern Territory
Criminal Code to supp apply a regular path to an
inquiry into guilt following conviction, distinct from the appeal process.
Steve Hatton's government moved to the edge of its legal
powers and pardoned Michael and Lindy.
Speaker 9 (02:15):
All our legal advice is that what we did was
the appropriate course of action. It's consistent with actions being
taken in similar situations elsewhere in Australia and overseas. Any
other consideration with your matter for legal advice, So how.
Speaker 10 (02:28):
Do you see the difference between a pardon which you
have and the convictions being quashed?
Speaker 8 (02:34):
Is there a great deal of difference in your opinion.
Speaker 11 (02:37):
There's an otion of difference between those two. One to
quash of conviction means it was wrong, it should never
have been and it was not some in the first place.
To get a pardon means you did what they said
you did, and you've been a good little girl. You've
been a good little boy. So there you can go
out and play. And that's ridiculous.
Speaker 12 (03:00):
At a heated news conference, Attorney General Darryl Mansei rejected
suggestions that the report warranted.
Speaker 7 (03:07):
Felicity Muffett is a Walkley Award winning journalist and former
senior reporter specializing in legal affairs for The Seven Yarde.
I spoke to her about the Chamberlain's case as it
veered into the absurd.
Speaker 13 (03:22):
It's it's a really strange decision, and I guess these
days you would probably see it unfold very differently where
you could expect it after that Royal Commission, Trevor Marling
was going to find what he did find, and you
would be prepared to say, look, you know, we don't
(03:45):
just pardon you, but we're going to take steps to
move to quite formally quash these convictions. So I don't know.
I guess there was a view that they wanted you
not to cave in and give in. But as far
as a lot of people were concerned, the Mauling Report
(04:10):
had set.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
The path and.
Speaker 13 (04:13):
Appropriate action should have been taken to demonstrate to the
Chamberlains that redress would occur to the full extent. I think,
you know, maybe they thought a pardon was enough.
Speaker 7 (04:26):
The Government rightly, with respect, considered that such a step
would be an unwarranted intrusion by the legislature into the
domain of the judiciary. Of course, as you'd expect, Stuart
Tipple didn't let Daryl Mansey or the Government think the
matter was resolved.
Speaker 14 (04:44):
What a pardon does is just relieve the chairmans from
the consequences of the conviction.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
So we're written today telling him we don't agree.
Speaker 14 (04:51):
Pointing out the authorities asking for a special Act of
Parliament a.
Speaker 7 (04:55):
Big part, and Michael Chamberlain also spoke to the stalemate
that he was in the middle of.
Speaker 15 (05:02):
It's absolutely essential to us, as it is to our children,
that we our names are clear and that we are exonerated,
and that there's no more time or money spent on
this disastrous case.
Speaker 8 (05:15):
Eventually the law was changed.
Speaker 7 (05:17):
Section four to three three A was added to the
Northern Territory Criminal Code. Where a person has been convicted
of a crime or an indictable offense, the Attorney General may,
at the request of the convicted person, refer the case
to the court to consider or again consider whether the
(05:38):
conviction should be quashed and a judgment and verdict of
acquittal entered. But as Stuart Tipple was about to discover,
the government may have changed the law, but it had
not changed its mind.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
I was so delighted when after putting the pressure on
the government they did actually enact special legislation that allowed
us to go back before an appeal court and to
get the acquittal, which readinstate of the Chamberlain's presumption of innocence.
That's what I wanted. But we expected that when we
(06:17):
went to the court that it would be a done deal,
that the Northern Territory would have learnt and that we
would have just handed up consent orders. But we got
the shock of our lives when the Council for the
Northern Territory stood up and opposed our application and said
there really needs to be a rehearing because effectively The
(06:38):
Commissioner is one person, and we really need to revisit
all of this evidence again.
Speaker 7 (06:46):
Malcolm Brown, the veteran print journalist who covered the Chamberlain
case from day one, shares his thoughts.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
The Crown opposed it, so Michael Adams opposed it.
Speaker 8 (06:57):
And I wonder why on earth.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
I asked one of the lawyers, the creneral lawyers out there,
why they're opposing. He said, oh, well, it's just their
opinion of one tribunal. Another tribunal could have made another decision,
or what the hell is that all about? You could say,
anyone convicted, so it was only one tribunal.
Speaker 6 (07:16):
Well, fortunately the court gave him short shrift and they
decided that they could very well rely on Marling's report,
and that's what they did.
Speaker 7 (07:27):
On September fifteenth, nineteen eighty eight, Judges Ash, Nader and
Kearney quashed the Chamberlain's convictions and entered verdicts of acquittal.
Ash referred to Justice Morling's work, which had quote obviously
been conducted fairly in accordance with the rules of natural justice.
And the Commissioner is a judge of the Federal Court
(07:49):
with a high and if I may say so with
respect eminently deserved reputation. It is therefore only sensible to
give great weight to the fire and conclusions of the commission.
Speaker 12 (08:06):
Michael Chamberlain closed his eyes, looked at the ceiling and
began to weep. His wife, who sat rigid with tension,
also dissolved into tears as she hugged her lawyers.
Speaker 13 (08:16):
And of course today all of that would have been telecast.
There would have been cameras in the court and everybody
would have seen it, and the possibly also seen their
emotion inside the court, so that that was all kept
from the public, and only those who in the court
saw that. So when they came out and walked once
(08:39):
again through the media pack and said nothing, but Michael
held up that victory signal, and we were sort of thinking, well,
something huge has happened, that this is their moment. What
are they going to say? And then when they said
nothing in felt note conference and just walked to the car,
(09:03):
Please say something, Michael, how do you feel? I was
always thinking how awful it must have been for them
to go back inside that same court building where they
had endured so much misery, you know, and and so
much scrutiny and how appalling it must have been to
(09:23):
even come back to Darwin and be there and you know,
separate it from their kids and all of that. And
so that's why I said at the start of that story,
they came back, you know, to the Supreme Court. And
then I thought after, you know, as they were leaving,
how glad they must have been to get the hell
(09:44):
out of the place, you know. And if it had
been me, I never would have gone back to the
Northern Territory. I just thought, and I wondered what would happen.
So we agreed that the crew would go out to
the airport and just get that moment of them leave
the territory finally cleared and well on the way to
(10:06):
achieving some of their objectives. And that's when Lindy was
ascending the steps of the anst aircraft and throughout the
victory signal, and that while they hadn't spoken outside the court,
that just said it, you know, we're on our way home.
And it was such an important moment for them. After
a long and.
Speaker 12 (10:25):
Bitter fight for justice, Lindy Chamberlain at last was leaving
Darwin acknowledged as an innocent woman in the eyes of
the law. It was clearly a sweet victory solicity moment.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
One of the judges who exonerated the Chamberlain's in nineteen
eighty eight was John Nader QC. Nada was the author
of that paragraph. I started the show with, I know
of nowhere in the world where there's a judicial system
in which miscarriages of justice never occur, And he also wrote,
we must constantly strive to make our own system progressively
(11:02):
less prone to miscarriages of justice. Nata also addressed something
which I could not understand.
Speaker 8 (11:08):
As I got to this part of the story. What
was the hold up? Who was stalling? Why were they stalling?
Speaker 7 (11:16):
Nada wrote years later, the Chamberlain case shows that there
must be a regular mechanism for bringing the matter to
the notice of the Supreme Court. It is not enough
to be able to petition the executive. If a case
has or has taken on political overtones, the judgment of
the executive may be clouded by bias.
Speaker 8 (11:40):
There you have it, bias.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
That's what the problem was, And sadly bias did not
go away where their convictions quashed.
Speaker 8 (11:52):
The Chamberlains. Let Stuart Tipple address the media.
Speaker 14 (11:55):
Chailin's are very grateful to finally have been named clear
to publicly thank all of those decent and bear minded
people who supported them and made the day possible.
Speaker 8 (12:07):
As Tipple had predicted, the media would always be interested
in the Chamberlain story if there was a new angle,
and that new angle was a matter of compensation.
Speaker 14 (12:18):
The real tragedy is that the victory doesn't by itself
compensate them for what that's happened, goes without saying that
they should be compensated, and in that respect, the buck
firmly stops with the Northern Territory government.
Speaker 7 (12:33):
You'd think that it was going to be hard for
the Northern Territory government to deny compensation from this point.
So let me share with you the fact that the
Northern Territory Chief Minister, Steve Hatton told local newspapers that
he never bought Missus Chamberlain's story of a baby snatching dingo,
but he didn't believe she should have gone to jail
(12:54):
for murder either. So of course nothing happened with sation.
It was all about politics, and the politics of the
Chamberlain case peaked when the Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawk
spoke to reporters.
Speaker 8 (13:12):
Hawk was not only the.
Speaker 7 (13:13):
Most senior political figure in the Australian democracy, he was
perhaps the country's most astute judge of public opinion in
the post war period.
Speaker 16 (13:25):
It's quite clear that in the light of the morning
findings that it's going to be have to be a
very significant consideration paid to how you can lead not
really the costs, but the suffering.
Speaker 7 (13:45):
Camel Over the next few years, Azaria Chamberlain's family were
never far from the headlines. The motion picture Evil Angels
A Cry in the Dark with Meryl Streep and Sam
Neil was released to an already polarized nation. Then the
Chamberlain separated and divorced. Carlia chose to live with Michael
(14:10):
Reagan stayed with Lindy, while Aiden divided his time between
the two homes. Lindy met Rick Creighton during a speaking
tour of the USA and they soon married. And then
finally the Northern Territory government decided to pay compensation three
years after the Chamberlains left the Supreme Court, twelve years
(14:35):
after their daughter's death. Bob Collins spoke to the facts
and what was obvious to all.
Speaker 6 (14:42):
It's not as much as the Chamberlain's wanted it's exactly
one point three million dollars more than the Northern Urfy government.
Speaker 13 (14:49):
Wanted to play, making it sound like it was an
awful lot of money, which it probably was in those days.
And to think that in the end it amounted to
one point three you know, I look back on that
now and think, you know, gosh, after everything they've been through,
you know, what could possibly compensate them for what the
(15:10):
horrors that they've been through? And why didn't that happen
you know, rapidly and efficiently and without argument. I don't
know when it.
Speaker 8 (15:23):
Comes to the matter of compensation.
Speaker 10 (15:25):
What's your reaction to mister Everingham's comments today that you
have done well in your dealings with the media financially
and therefore compensation is something you probably don't need.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I think Paul Everingham's comments are about as accurate as
some of the forensic scientists in the trial. He just
doesn't know, and I think what he said has been
really quite unwarranted and very sad.
Speaker 8 (15:46):
I wish you get his facts straight, did you know.
Speaker 13 (15:49):
I think when you go back to those days, there
were still and there was then and there's still is now.
To a degree, you know this intransigent view that oh well,
no sympathy for the Chamberlain still think they might have
done it. And you know, just a hardline attitude like
(16:10):
that that has been taken for so long and it
was so difficult to part from.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
We need to take a quick break and we'll return
to a perfect storm in just a moment. At almost
every juncture of the Chamberlain's public life, Lindy and Michael
had spoken with seven's current affairs hosts Terry Willisy.
Speaker 10 (16:30):
Or They have been extremely traumatic times. No one can
deny that for a second, no matter what they think.
Speaker 8 (16:36):
Of your innocence or guilt.
Speaker 10 (16:37):
But what have been if there have been any highlights
of this saga, what have they been?
Speaker 11 (16:45):
Billa first one, it was a real highlight, was getting
bail and getting Carlia back. I had just been refused
any visits for twelve months because I was so dangerous.
I could not have my daughter visit me on a
(17:07):
patrolled visit with family with waters. I was too dangerous
for that.
Speaker 10 (17:12):
Why were you dangerous?
Speaker 8 (17:14):
Why were well?
Speaker 11 (17:15):
I've been convicted of murder.
Speaker 17 (17:17):
I was a really bad person.
Speaker 11 (17:18):
You see, you can't do this, You can't put another
child's risk, but then I got bail and was sent
home with my child. Despite that, a net was a
major answer to prayer and a major highlight. It was
just the feeling was just unbelievable, and that was a
(17:41):
real high And the rest of the family was waiting
for me. They'd come up to see their little sister,
take her home and give the boys a visit with Mum,
whom they hadn't seen for three months, and they ended
up taking a lot of us home.
Speaker 10 (17:55):
Well, just you mentioned an answer to prayers. How powerful
do you think prayer.
Speaker 11 (17:59):
Is all powerful?
Speaker 10 (18:02):
Can you give us an example of results?
Speaker 8 (18:04):
You see?
Speaker 11 (18:06):
There have been times when I have been absolutely desperate
and not knowing which way to turn, and I've.
Speaker 18 (18:22):
Thought that I would crack up if I didn't get
some help, some support, something give somewhere about something. And
I prayed about it, and I had an incredible sense
(18:44):
of peace. Just don't worry about it. Something is being done,
and I did not know what it was, how it
was happening.
Speaker 19 (18:54):
It took Stuart two days to get through to me,
and when he finally got through, he said, oh, look,
I've been trying a couple of days, but at such
and such time, there was an innocence committee was formed
with legal people and people with respected positions, and I
(19:18):
beg it was the time, the hour everything.
Speaker 7 (19:23):
As the years rolled on, there was another coroner's inquiry,
which resolved nothing. In August twenty ten, thirty years after
Azaria's disappearance, Lindy Chamberlain released a letter to open minded Australians.
In it, she wrote, quote, their own commission proved it
(19:43):
was not me, as I had told them all along.
Please do not forget that a beautiful little girl died
tragically on this date thirty years ago, unquote. Within hours,
the Northern Territory Attorney General Dearlylori said she had asked
the Northern Territory Registrar of Earth's Deaths and Marriages to
(20:04):
determine if the cause.
Speaker 8 (20:06):
Of death is accurate.
Speaker 7 (20:09):
In late twenty eleven, Coroner Elizabeth Morris announced that she
had determined to reopen the inquest into the death of
Azariah Chamberlain.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
And this was the first time that a lady had
been involved in any judicial capacity. And from the moment
I walked into her court, I realized that there's a
whole new atmosphere. Here is a lady who's compassionate and
really wanted to get to the truth. And so the
first hearing was adjourned so they could make some other
(20:40):
lines of an inquiry. And when we came back in June,
they'd done their homework. They'd been able to verify that
there were something like two hundred and thirty Dingo attacks
and even a death since the Chamberlain trial. All the
(21:02):
media were there and the court room was packed. Aiden
actually contacted me and said is it worth me coming?
And I said I think so, and so he at
the last minute made arrangements and he was there to
support his mum. And Michael of course was there. Lindy
was there with her husband.
Speaker 7 (21:22):
Coroner Morris was ready, having considered all of the evidence,
including evidence gathered. Much like Dennis Barrett, she decided to
let a single video camera into the Northern Territory Magistrates Court.
The following Lindy and husband Rick Creighton sat alongside Michael Chamberlain,
along with son Aiden and his wife Anna.
Speaker 8 (21:43):
Generally, Malcolm Brown was.
Speaker 7 (21:45):
There of course, as was Stuart Tipple and Rex Wild QCY.
Speaker 6 (21:52):
And it was just one of those moments you'll never
ever forget. The judgment and finding read out by Elizabeth
Marris was compelling. It was so compassionate.
Speaker 20 (22:04):
In considering now all of the evidence, I am satisfied
that the evidence is sufficiently adequate, clear, cogent, and exact,
and that the evidence excludes all other reasonable possibilities to
find that What occurred on the seventeenth of August nineteen
eighty was that shortly after Missus Chamberlain placed Azaria in
(22:25):
the tent, a dingo or dingoes entered the tent, took
Azaria and carried and dragged her from the immediate area.
Speaker 6 (22:34):
And she made the point that whatever her finding was,
she couldn't replace Azaria. And I think when she started
saying that, she actually broke down.
Speaker 20 (22:44):
Missus Chamberlain Crichton, Mister Chamberlain, Aiden and your extended families,
please accept my sincere sympathy on the death of your
special and loved daughter and sister Azaria. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
For your loss.
Speaker 20 (23:07):
Time does not remove the pain and sadness of the
death of a child.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
And I looked around and I was crying. I don't
think there was a dry eye in the court. And
it was just sort of one of those serendipitous moments
that you think, well, this has been a worthwhile journey.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
Lindy spoke outside to the waiting medium.
Speaker 19 (23:30):
I wanted to get a cry, but I think it
had starting me off.
Speaker 11 (23:34):
Obviously, we're relieved and delighted to come to the end
of this saga.
Speaker 21 (23:43):
This has been a terrifying battle, better at times, but
now some healing and a chance to put our daughter's
spirit to rest.
Speaker 7 (24:00):
What have we learned on this disturbing journey? As I've
documented the death of Azaria Chamberlain and its consequences, Coroner
Dennis Barrett's findings still ring true. Forensic evidence must be
accurate or problems follow. Retired journalist David Jones.
Speaker 22 (24:21):
I think something that came out of the Azaria Chamblain
case is that forensic science is not godlike the forensic
science can obviously be wrong, and that I suppose the
lesson for Australia as a whole, for all of us
as Australians, is to is to keep an open mind
(24:43):
and don't be swayed by forensic science, which needs to
be subject to the closest possible scrutiny.
Speaker 8 (24:52):
Linda Scott has no doubts.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
I definitely think this could happen again. Somebody a little
bit unusual is view differently from a mainstream person. If
somebody doesn't cry when they're expected to cry, yeah, you
see it all the time. Now it could totally happen again.
I don't know what you do about it. I think
you have to have juries. You couldn't just have one
person judging something. But I don't know how you get
(25:21):
the right juries. I don't know how you get them
to be to eradicate everything they've read in the papers.
Or now look with Facebook. Now imagine Lindy Chamberlain today.
There would be all those haters on Facebook. It would
just be out of control. It would be a million
times worse. And so I think when the next Lindy
Chamberlain comes along, it's all going to happen again. It's
going to be another train wreck.
Speaker 7 (25:44):
And let's not forget Stuart Tibble's experience with Lindy and
Michael Chamberlain underneath the courtroom after they were found guilty.
Speaker 6 (25:53):
And we get down there and Michael turns to me
and he just says, so this is British just for you.
And although as many years ago, I'm still haunted by that,
and it's something I keep hearing in my head and
it's one of the things that has kept me determined
(26:13):
to try and improve the system because the system failed.
The system let us down, and I've got absolutely no
doubt it's let other people down and it will continue
to do so.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
Corn and Barrett made another key findings. Wild animals and
tourists do not mix. The late Derek Roff, a veteran
of Kenyan wildlife parks in eighteen years in the Australian Outback,
warned his bosses.
Speaker 23 (26:46):
And we were going to shield a number of dingles, discreetly,
but nevertheless we were going to shield them. Well, I
was not back. I didn't get thee I didn't get
the bullets and what have you. In a fortnight, lad
Assuria disappeared.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
And the very people whose lives were ruined by that
decision held no grudges a matter of weeks after their
daughter's death.
Speaker 11 (27:11):
Lindy Chamberlain, it's not that we've got anything against dingoes
even now. They're very beautiful dogs and they have their
right to their natural habits. But man is spoiling This
man has tampered with the dogs in that area.
Speaker 7 (27:27):
Have we heeded the warnings from Roth Barrett and Lindy Chamberlain.
I asked Professor Bill Ballard, one of Australia's leading dingo experts.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
For mine. What I would like to see come out
of something like this is saying, how can we use
that to improve the way we look at the dingo
now and to actually make this less likely to happen
in the future, Because I see this happening in Fraser Island.
(27:59):
If people don't sort of say this has happened before,
surely we've got to learn something. Surely we've got to
be smarter than we're currently being, or it's just gonna
happened again. And then they're going to say, my god,
(28:19):
this has happened. And like the park rangers saying, you
know this is going to happen, we're in the same
position right here, right now that it's going to happen
again if we're not careful.
Speaker 24 (28:31):
I must have right past him to get to the
baby and taken the baby out. It was sempty, there
was nothing there, and I called my husband straight away.
I come straight out of the tent and called him
at the door.
Speaker 23 (28:45):
They didn't go.
Speaker 24 (28:45):
I'd taken the baby and chased it. I can still
see it. I chased it into the into the bush
and followed it. I realized it was no good, and
as soon as hope, I called out to my husband,
the Dingo's got a baby, and he came running. He
(29:07):
enjoyed up into the bush, but he never stopped to
get a torch and realized it was dark.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
Even though you may only know the words a Dingo's
got my baby from a news report in the eighties
or a TV show in the nineties, there's a reason
why we can still learn from it as we enter
a new year, another new decade. This Perfect Storm impacted
so many lives around and beyond the Airs.
Speaker 8 (29:33):
Rock Campsite at the time.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
Some lives were destroyed, while the careers of others blossomed.
Speaker 6 (29:41):
You've had certain tefts of being done on.
Speaker 7 (29:43):
The n Some turned to alcohol, while others leant on
their faith. Some attempted suicide, while others turned to silence
for their salvation. There's something I never expected to happen
with this project, but I'd like to share it now.
(30:04):
This podcast is by and large about two women, Lindy
and Azaria Chamberlain, and the Perfect Storm production was supported
primarily by women throughout from my sister in Perth, to
the professional archive team in Darwin, my work colleagues from
Perth to Sydney, and so many in between. It should
(30:27):
come as no surprise then that the series has resonated
across the world with women. So let's hear from Sally
Shaw one more time.
Speaker 17 (30:37):
Years later, I after it had all been cut and dry,
Lindy was through they string down and I was with
her in Sydney. We just were going to spend the
day together and it was horrendous. I would have punched
everybody's lights out, like people around her. Then years later,
(30:58):
when it's all been overturned and people are still saying
really nasty things about it, really really nasty things, and
I couldn't cope. But she was just, you know, somehow,
just sailing through and with dignity, and I was ready
to bunch the lines.
Speaker 8 (31:19):
I thought, this is.
Speaker 17 (31:20):
Wrong, you know, so so so it's the prejudice once
started seems to be there. Yeah, you just a few
people have apologized to me saying that you know, I'm
you know, I just want you to know that I
(31:41):
thought this and I was wrong, and they've apologized, and
that was really lovely and beggest them to do that.
But on the whole, the people that were really prejudice
are never going to accept yeah, the truth, You're right
because it just ingrined.
Speaker 7 (32:05):
You know by now that this can all happen again
unless the law is changed. If you feel angry about
what happened and I was, do your best to force
that change and perhaps do what I'm doing. Go to
www dot gg dot go ov dot au and follow
(32:31):
the links to the Australian Honors and Awards. I think
Lindy Chamberlain and Stuart Tipple should be awarded for believing
in the truth. My thanks to Nicky, Simon and Stephen
for helping me create the whole series, and a shout
out to Lynn Penniment and Tan Quay, and thanks to
(32:55):
you for listening and your support.
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