October 17, 2019 • 31 mins
A 9 week old baby has gone missing. Some blame dingoes, some suspect the parents.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners are advised that the
following program may contain the names of people who have
died a perfect storm. The true story of the Chamberlains.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I think Azaria would have lasted a matter of minutes.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
There were certain people within the Northern Territory Police who
were determined to get her.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
People were saying to me, oh, you're going there to
see that woman who killed a child.
Speaker 5 (00:28):
Bad things happen to good people.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
He asked the foreman, have you reached a verdict?
Speaker 6 (00:33):
He said, yes, you're honor guilty.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Episode two, The Search for Azaria.
Speaker 6 (00:46):
Hello. My name is John Buck. I work in the
development group here at seven Studios, where we create new
TV shows and podcasts for broadcasting and streaming around the world.
I started making a documentary late last year about a
miscarriage of justice, one of the worst in this country's
history and one of the most famous. An innocent mother,
(01:09):
Lindy Chamberlain, went to jail. I'd worked in the seven
news room through the whole process. I was sure I
knew the Chamberlain's story, but I didn't, and neither do you. Michael,
a thirty eight year old pastor in the Seventh Day
Adventist Church, and his thirty four year old wife Lindy,
(01:29):
decided to take their three kids on a road trip.
They went to one of Australia's most famous tourist destinations, Oolaro,
or airs Rock as it was known in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
It was a must see vocation. If you ever went
to the Northern Churchory, you had to go to Azrock.
At that time you could climb a isrock.
Speaker 6 (01:49):
Malcolm Brown is a retired newspaper journalist of forty years.
He covered the entire Chamberlain case.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Michael and Lindy they hadn't been there before. When they
were happy to see it and they walked up onto
the rock, they had found the famous photograph of baby
Azaria standing on the lower part of the rock. They
had a wonderful time.
Speaker 6 (02:12):
But it would be the last image of Azaria alive.
By nine pm, she was dead, snatched from the family
tent by a hungry dingo.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
The Chamberlains drove into an area where dingos were known
to have harassed or even attacked children.
Speaker 6 (02:33):
Sally Shaw, her husband Greg, and baby daughter Chantal were
also on a camping trip to Azrak.
Speaker 7 (02:39):
There was no warning then of any danger or anything.
The only thing I saw was there was a notice
in the toilet block to say don't feed the low
called dingos in the area.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I later found out that six weeks prior to Azaria's disappearance,
a little girl, Amanda Cronwell from Victoria had been dragged
the family car and the parents that had do a divine.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
As rockhead ranger Derek Roff was already aware of the
dingo problem, and.
Speaker 8 (03:09):
The dingoes were encroaching more and more upon our space
the wrong.
Speaker 6 (03:14):
With help from the team in the Northern Territory Archive Service,
I found this rare audio interview with the late Derek Roff.
Speaker 8 (03:23):
And we were giving it a great deal of thought,
and eventually I determined that we'd really have to get
rid of some of the dingles that becoming more and
more of a problem, and I requested permission to get
some high power rifle bullets and we were going to
shield a number of dingos.
Speaker 6 (03:44):
To back up his request for bullets, Roff wrote a
report in which he warned his superiors that children and
babies could be considered pray. Roff was ignored.
Speaker 8 (03:56):
I didn't get the I didn't get the bullets and
whatever you in a fortnight, l Azariah disappeared.
Speaker 6 (04:02):
Derek ROV's Dingo report was hidden from the public and
from the first coroner. And why was it hidden, Well,
would you take your family to airs Rock on a
holiday if the dingoes were baby killers? After decades of silence,
Sally Shaw agreed to go back to the night of
August seventeen, nineteen eighty, the night that ruined so many lives.
Speaker 7 (04:27):
And she hadn't been back very very long. And I
heard the baby cry and I didn't say anything, but
Michael said that's Bobby or something, you know, and then
he goes, I didn't hear anything, and I said, oh,
that was definitely the baby's cry. And it was like
a short, sharp cry, and that's when she let out
(04:50):
the cry. I keep it commercial still forty years since then.
It it was garaging, It really was. It just really
it was like someone put a knife through you. The
cry that you heard. It was really really horrific. And
(05:17):
I just sort of poked into the tent and that's
when I realized that that there wasn't going to be
any hope none. Nearly knelt in a pool of blood
in front of me. I just in my mind as
soon as I saw the blood and associated with a
cry to me that child was dead. First person to
(05:37):
arrive on the scene then was the ranger and tracker.
Speaker 8 (05:43):
Thought one when the alarm went up that night was God,
it's happened, you know, and everybody I think on the park.
I thought that, right, this is without a doubt the
dinguished taking the baby and what have you.
Speaker 7 (05:58):
And Lindy and I coached lowline shrubbed there. I mean,
the baby could have been dropped. That was their hope
that the baby would have been dropped somewhere.
Speaker 6 (06:08):
Near Within minutes of Lindy's cry, there were dozens of people,
including Roth and his fellow rangers, looking for Azaria. They
were joined by the local police and indigenous trackers.
Speaker 8 (06:22):
That night we followed tracks together with another reginal elder
by the name of Nui. We followed tracks that night
and within twelve feet of the tent. The following day
we followed tracks of an animal carrying something. There were
enough evidence of shore that women in Barbara days to
walk about. Barbara Chikapou and Kiddie Collins excellent trackers.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And at one point the dingo appears to have put
something down and on the sand there were apparent impressions
of fabric.
Speaker 8 (06:56):
Found all the signs. We followed the animal for five
six more, unsuccessfully in recoverying Messiah the police.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I don't think the police did a bad job. That
they were stuck with an unprecedented situation. They did their best.
Speaker 6 (07:14):
On the night, around two hundred and fifty volunteers scoured
the bush for four hours in the dark and bitter cold.
Speaker 7 (07:28):
The search went on. Michael and Greg came back at
various times. I tried to talk to Greg about what
I'd seen in the tent, but he was just his
mind was off in another direction. Years ago he'd identified
his brother in law who's badly smashed in a car accident,
and he was really affected by He said, you know,
what they're going to find is not going to be pretty.
(07:50):
You know, they shouldn't let these school kids be out there.
Speaker 8 (07:52):
Searching and the oboriginal people would convinced that Dinga was
the party, and I certainly was with a dingual ninety
nine point nine percent.
Speaker 7 (08:05):
And to this day, I think another half hour and
it would have been our own child, you know, because
she would have been in our tent and who's to
say we wouldn't zip the tent up because it was
the tent was right there. You know, we might have
left the tent unzipped. Anything could have happened.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
Around midnight, Derek Roff called everyone back to the campsite
and stopped the search for the evening. Michael Chamberlain thanked everyone,
and several people hugged him.
Speaker 7 (08:37):
We stayed with the searching for I don't know, several hours,
but then you know, we've got chantel. She was a
seventeen month old, So we went to the nearest motel
and we were going to sleep in the vehicle outside
the motel. Greg just felt that was a safe place
to be, and when we went inside, people who managed
though a motel gave us a room free for the night.
Speaker 6 (09:01):
A local nurse, ROBERTA. Downs, organized a motel room for
the Chamberlain's. The police agreed to drive them there, but
they could only fit Lindy and her two sons in
their vehicle. As a parent, what happened next just feels tragic.
(09:21):
Michael Chamberlain stayed back at the campsite and quietly packed
the family car with the clothes and blankets from the
blood stained tent. He was joined by fellow tourist Amy Whittaker,
who later testified that she saw no blood in the
car and didn't get any blood on her clothing. Roberta
(09:42):
Downs wanted to check in on Lindy, so she joined
Michael in the family car for the short drive to
the motel. She sat on the passenger's seat. Why is
this important? Why am I mentioning the blood in the car?
Lindy Chamberlain was later convicted on scientific evidence that she
had decapitated Azaria in the same car with a small
(10:05):
pair of nail scissors while sitting on the passenger's seat,
the same seat that Roberta Downs sat on. Downs also
testified in court that she saw no blood in the
car and didn't get any blood on her clothing. Neither
Downs nor Whittaker were interviewed by airs Rock police. In
(10:27):
the coming year, Police investigators, then forensic scientists, lawyers, and
finally a jury ignored what these two women and Sally
Shaw saw and heard. But that's not all. There's a
lot more you need to know. They did that early
(10:48):
experiment with the dragging the effigy through the bush. Yeah,
I'm working on this podcast with Stephen, the manager of
our National Library. He's searching through all of the interviews
and all of the footage it's been archived from the
Seven Networks coverage of the Chamberlain case. He found this
recording of Sergeant John Lincoln from the Northern Territory Police
(11:12):
as he announced the Chamberlain story for the first time.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
He had been found of the.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
Whole Chamberlain story isn't written down. So I've made a
list of the people who I may be able to
talk with to help me understand just what happened, people
like Sergeant John Lincoln, journalist Jeff de Luca, and Greg Low.
Some cannot bear the thought of reliving this horrible memory
(11:43):
from nineteen eighty, while others have passed away. With help
from Rick, who heads up our foreign desk at seven,
I found the junior reporter who created Seven's first story
on the Chamberlains. I asked Mike Smithson how he first
heard of the story.
Speaker 9 (12:00):
Sudden we heard a report coming down from Airs Rock
that a dingo had taken a baby, and everyone thought, well,
this is a bit strange. We haven't heard of that
happening before.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
Smithson became an award winning crime reporter, but in nineteen
eighty he'd only just moved from newspapers to television. He
was told to get to airs Rock as fast as
possible and get an interview with the parents of the
missing baby, Lindy and Michael.
Speaker 9 (12:29):
Chamberlain's life had changed forever in the space of half
an hour, but at that stage, no one really knew
where this story was headed and all of the intrigue
and the crime and the mystique about it that would
follow for years and decades to come.
Speaker 6 (12:51):
Derek Roth, the head ranger, and the Indigenous trackers began
a new search for Azaria. At dawn Sally Shaw and
her husband Greg, we're awake at their motel.
Speaker 7 (13:03):
Greg decided we wouldn't stay because we thought, well, we'd
have to stay in the tent and now, you know,
our child would be in danger, and so we went
to check out what was happening. We drove around the
road to the side of the camp and it was
Derreck Roth we saw first and asked him where the
(13:24):
policeman was, because, as had Degreg, we've got to make
a statement. We went a bit further and spoke to
the policeman and he said, oh, no, it's fine, We've
got your details if we need to contact you. It's
all cutting, you know, it's all I don't think you
use those words, but he was saying, it's all cut
and dried. We we know what's happened. Our priority now
is to try and find the baby, you know. You know,
(13:45):
So as far as he was concerned, what happened happened,
and now they were trying to follow up with we're
finding what's happened to the baby? Yeah, and that's that's
how we left it so.
Speaker 10 (14:01):
Well.
Speaker 7 (14:01):
To me, I watched too much television. I thought, well,
shou'd have made a statement. But on the other hand,
I totally agreed with him. It was all, you know,
what happened happened. It was cut and dry, and that
was the priority now, to find the baby or what
(14:21):
was left the baby.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
At the Ularu motel, the Chamberlains were inundated with calls
from newspapers who wanted to know all about Azaria and
wanted to get an image for their front pages. Rather
than rejoin the search party, Michael agreed to go back
to the campsite to take a photo of the bloodstained
tent for the media. Yes, I thought the same thing.
(14:50):
It's odd. But then I looked at the list of
common reactions that people have to a sudden traumatic incident.
It ranges from sadness to confusion. So that was again
was the primary Malcolm Brown was a senior journalist at
the Sydney Morning Herald for forty years. He covered the
(15:10):
Chamberlain's story and got to know Michael and Lindy.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Their reactions after the disamine of his area brought them
under a lot of criticism, including Michael's scuttling around trying
to find black and white film on the day afterwards
because a reporter in Melbourne had wanted to get a
shot of the tent. Michael said that he was doing
that because he wanted to warn everyone else about what happened.
(15:35):
But it was unusual response. But as I've said at
the time, there's no rule saying how people should respond
a traumatic circumstances. People respond, they cry, they faint, they
get violent or I laugh that people can wrect any
way you like.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
Stuart Tipple, the Chamberlain's long time lawyer, reached out to
me to share his stories stories from a case that
defined his career. While some were suspicious of Lindy and
Michael's reaction, it signaled something else. To Stewart.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
One of the things that immediately impressed me about the Chamberlains.
If you're guilty and you've got something to hide, you
don't tend to go out and talk to people and
so readily allow people into the car. I mean, on
that night they allowed tracker dogs into the car. To
(16:38):
get the send of Azaria's clothing.
Speaker 6 (16:45):
An Adelaide newspaper team were the first Metropolitan media to
arrive at Allie Springs Airport. They were in a race
to get the first film interview with the Chamberlains, and
they hired a light aircraft to fly them the ninety
minute trip to Airsrock. The Alice Springs Police had already
(17:06):
flown to Airsrock and met the Chamberlains at their motel.
Inspector Gilroy and Sergeant Lincoln asked Lindy if she could
describe the clothing that Azaria had been wearing the previous night.
Lindy spoke of a disposable nappy, a singlet, a stretch
tailing suit, a pair of booties, and a knitted matinee jacket.
(17:31):
If you remember nothing else from this episode, just remember
the lack of blood on the car seat and Azaria's
matinee jacket. After talking to the police, the Chamberlains went
outside and met the Adelaide newspaper team. Michael stood with
(17:51):
Aiden on his hip and Lindy was carrying Reagan. Both
boys were blonde haired and lean, like their father. Aiden
was almost seven and Reagan was four. I discovered that
not only was Michael Chamberlain a pastor at his church,
but he had also completed a media and journalism course,
(18:11):
so it makes sense that he was more at ease
with public speaking and in talking to the film crew.
Speaker 11 (18:17):
But when we saw the spots of blood in the tent,
as we looked, we realized it must have been a
very quick event. And this morning, when we saw in
the blanket the sharp, ripped, jagged marks in that very
thickly woven blanket, we knew that that was a powerful
beast and the sharp teeth. It was more than a
domestic dog that did that.
Speaker 6 (18:37):
And then it was time for Lindy Chamberlain to talk
about what had happened the night.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Before, and I just yelled there wasn't time to go
and tell people.
Speaker 11 (18:46):
I just yelled out as anyone got a talk, then
goes got my baby.
Speaker 6 (18:53):
It was an interview that became famous in Australia and
around the world. A mother in shock along side a
stoic father, parents in a state of disbelief. But because
they didn't act like us and they didn't look like us,
their comments were eventually mocked on The Simpsons and on
(19:15):
Seinfeld the death of a child as a joke.
Speaker 9 (19:22):
The enormity of the grief that Lindy Chamberlain was suffering
at that time, and Michael Chamberlain and the other children
as opposed to a suspicious media that is casting doubt
from the word go on the validity of what Lindy
Chamberlain was saying. It was enormous.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
Seven years reporter Mike Smithson had arrived at Ezrach and
was part of a growing media.
Speaker 9 (19:46):
Contingent at that stage. It wasn't a frenetic police search
that you sometimes might imagine that we have got to
find this baby at all costs. It was more of
a reflective I've done the initial police investigation, where do
we go to from here? Because we've found a bit
(20:06):
of evidence, but we certainly haven't found the remains of
the baby.
Speaker 8 (20:10):
You know, we patrol, researched, we did everything.
Speaker 10 (20:14):
You know.
Speaker 6 (20:15):
The englishman charged with finding Azaria had lived in Central
Australia for more than a decade. Derek Roff moved to
Australia after many years working in the Kenyon Wildlife Reserves.
He had extensive experience with managing tourists and wildlife. And
Roff was a former policeman.
Speaker 8 (20:35):
We had a lot of police around in Montevie, but
you know, some of them, I don't think we're all
that well experienced at the time, you know, in that
time of investigation, and they took a certain line and
they wanted to fit things into it.
Speaker 6 (20:49):
With no evidence of Azaria found, the Northern Territory Police
turned their attention to the dingoes.
Speaker 8 (20:57):
It policed decided that they wanted to shoot an dingos
check stomach contents. I think there were six killed. It
would have been good evidence, if you know, as areas
bones had been found in a dingo's gout, but it wasn't,
you know, there weren't.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
The lack of evidence seemed to feed suspicions. First in
the media. It's it's against all dingo habits.
Speaker 8 (21:24):
They keep run away from even the center Man. We
had a lot of experts that came out the would
work of course on dingos at the time, and they
were making comments like, oh, dingo would never do this,
and whatever you want to say, ludicrous. You know, these
people ought to know a hell of a lot more.
You've got a wealth of experience of the bears in
North America. You've got elephants and baboons in Keena, for example.
(21:47):
The everywhere you've got animals and human beings mixing. There
is that breakdown of that area around you know where
you've got this protected area. People can approach so far,
but once they get into that boundary then there is
an attack or defense or what have your mechanism.
Speaker 6 (22:08):
We'll return to a perfect storm. In just a moment.
To hear the Chamberlain's first full interview, it seemed a
perfect storm was forming around the Chamberlains. Experts knew that
dingoes were a problem, but the animals were also part
of a major tourist attraction. Without a body and a
(22:31):
conclusion to the case, some members of the media went
looking for an alternate story, and the Chamberlains, by their actions,
provided it to them. They left Airs Rock for their
home in Mount iSER.
Speaker 8 (22:47):
They did.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Everything they did was wrong. Couldn't have been more calculated
to have antagonized people. They left on the Tuesday, well,
people were still searching and that was odd. I think
they concluded the baby was dead, but you would think
that others parents staying on and on and joining the search.
(23:09):
It was an astonishing response, but as I said, no
rule as to how people react.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
Malcolm Brown was later acknowledged by the Chamberlains as being
one of a handful of media professionals to have reported
their story fairly. Philip Castle was another.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I'd been a journalist about six or seven years before
the actual Lindy story broke.
Speaker 6 (23:34):
He agreed to record an interview from our studios.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Risk that a dingo had taken the baby.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
I asked Philip to recall the police reaction to Azaria
Chamberlain's death.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
The initial police investigation from the very first constables from
the Northern Territory who turned up didn't really do a
proper crime scene coverage as is normal. But of course
people were running around trying to find the dingo and
therefore the primary forensic evidence about tracts and so on
(24:11):
wasn't immediately available to them and probably never was because
it had been so disturbed.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
After he left the Camera Times, Philip Castle worked as
a media officer of the Australian Federal Police. His boss
was a former Northern Territory Police commissioner, Ron mcaulay, who
ultimately approved the police case against the Chamberlains.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
And when he spoke to me privately some years later,
he felt that they were not equipped as a police
force to have dealt with such a complicated, difficult case,
and because of police jealousies and territorial sort of spheres
(24:56):
of influence, they did not call upon the outside resis horses,
which probably could have helped them.
Speaker 6 (25:03):
The mistakes by the Northern Territory Police were mounting up.
We'll hear more from Philip later.
Speaker 7 (25:11):
The police didn't take a statement from us, They didn't
really establish with the people who were there on the
night what happened. And I understand they might have been
intent on finding the baby and that was their priority,
but they did not, you know, talk to the people
(25:31):
who were immediately camping next to the Chamberlains or whatever
like that didn't happen. If things like that had happened,
it may have prevented a lot of that speculation down
the track because it was a bit I was going
to say half asked, but that's a bit cruel really.
I think their priority was I'm finding the baby and
(25:55):
the fact that this sort of thing doesn't happen every day.
They haven't got that proceeding in place. You can't blame them,
but I think it started to break down at that
early stage.
Speaker 6 (26:09):
By now the Chamberlains had returned to their home in
the small outback town of Mount Isa. Rumors, innuendo and
hate mail followed them from Airs Rock. Stephen found this
interview in our archive of Lindy speaking to seven News
over the phone.
Speaker 10 (26:28):
We've been told that we beat the baby and that
she was in hospital with black and blue bruisers for
a four week before we left on holidays, that she
was not a wanted baby and it was a good
way to get rid of her, that it was a
bizarre religious ritual.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
Malcolm Brown is a retired newspaper journalist of forty years.
He covered the entire Chamberlain case.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
And the Chamberlains wherever they went were always an odd couple.
Didn't meet, they didn't drink. He was a part a church.
It was not well understood. It was pointed there had
been a Methodist or presipitual and Baptist or Catholics would
have been a different manners confused with the Java's witnesses.
But so a lot of misunderstanding about the Seventh Day
(27:15):
events will and even talk of practicing black magic.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
With pressure growing on them every day, the Chamberlain's decided
to speak out. They recorded this interview with Seven reporter
Howard Gibbs.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
I yelled at the dog to scare it off, and
then it sort of registered on my mind as I
was running to the tent because I thought the kiddies
are in there. She has cried, it has disturbed her,
and I immediately the only thing I could think of
was first aid. When I got in the tent, it
(27:52):
was just nothing, and I called for my husband. I
didn't really couldn't believe the evidence of my own eyes,
and I called to Michael that Dingo's got the baby.
And I flew out of the tent as quick as
I called, and he said.
Speaker 11 (28:08):
What And I rushed into the tent and we looked
around quickly and couldn't see anything. I thought what else
could have had? And I rushed out into the blackness,
and I felt as hopeless as I ever felt in
my life. And I heard some Christian music. I knew
I couldn't see anything around, and I just ran towards
the Christian music and I called out to the people
(28:29):
in the tent there. I said, look, I said, if
you've got a light, come out and search and help us.
If you haven't, please pray, because a dog or a dingo,
wild dog, a dingo has got our baby.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
I chased the dog. I went round the corner of
the car, and it was standing at the back of
the car, obviously wanting to go in the opposite direction.
And I was in the road and it took off
up into the bush and I chased it until it
was dark.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
You're certain chairs did, aren't you? Yes, the reconcile yourself
to that.
Speaker 12 (29:03):
So much bloodste Yes, we found not so much blood
looking back now that she was definitely dead when she
left that tent, in our opinion, certainly unconscious.
Speaker 6 (29:17):
Does your faith tell you anything about Azaria now?
Speaker 11 (29:21):
Yes, we believe that Azaria is asleep now. The Bible
speaks of death as being asleep, and we believe that
she waits now not knowing anything for the hope of
the resurrection. And one of the firmest things that helps
us in our faith is that we believe that we
(29:41):
shall see her again, because she was an innocent, precious
bundle of little joy. But if God is merciful, and
we know that he is, that we will see her again.
Speaker 6 (29:54):
Yes, I asked the chamberlain's longtime lawyer, Stewart Tipple, if
Lindy and Michael's faith was the main reason that the
public didn't believe them.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
Lindy and Michael and I certainly had a lot of
common factors, including our belief in God and our religious beliefs.
I think that helped me understand them. I was able
to understand some of the pronouncements that Michael made that
(30:24):
this is God's will and so on and so forth,
which was a view that some Christians have that whatever
happens to you is God's will. It's not something that
I subscribe to and a lot of other Christians name.
My view always is that bad things happen to good people.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
The main reason that I'm making this podcast is to
break down the blind belief that we all have in
the criminal justice system. Yes, our courts get it right,
most of the time, but when they don't, good people
go to Jall for Life. If you subscribe now, you'll
get an alert the moment our next show drops. I'd
(31:06):
like to say thanks to Nicky Simon and Stephen who
helped create this episode, and a shout out to Vanessa
Rick and Michael Usher. And thanks to you for listening.
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners are advised that the
following program may contain the names of people who have
died a perfect storm. The true story of the Chamberlains.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I think Azaria would have lasted a matter of minutes.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
There were certain people within the Northern Territory Police who
were determined to get her.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
People were saying to me, oh, you're going there to
see that woman who killed a child.
Speaker 5 (00:28):
Bad things happen to good people.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
He asked the foreman, have you reached a verdict?
Speaker 6 (00:33):
He said, yes, you're honor guilty.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Episode two, The Search for Azaria.
Speaker 6 (00:46):
Hello. My name is John Buck. I work in the
development group here at seven Studios, where we create new
TV shows and podcasts for broadcasting and streaming around the world.
I started making a documentary late last year about a
miscarriage of justice, one of the worst in this country's
history and one of the most famous. An innocent mother,
(01:09):
Lindy Chamberlain, went to jail. I'd worked in the seven
news room through the whole process. I was sure I
knew the Chamberlain's story, but I didn't, and neither do you. Michael,
a thirty eight year old pastor in the Seventh Day
Adventist Church, and his thirty four year old wife Lindy,
(01:29):
decided to take their three kids on a road trip.
They went to one of Australia's most famous tourist destinations, Oolaro,
or airs Rock as it was known in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
It was a must see vocation. If you ever went
to the Northern Churchory, you had to go to Azrock.
At that time you could climb a isrock.
Speaker 6 (01:49):
Malcolm Brown is a retired newspaper journalist of forty years.
He covered the entire Chamberlain case.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Michael and Lindy they hadn't been there before. When they
were happy to see it and they walked up onto
the rock, they had found the famous photograph of baby
Azaria standing on the lower part of the rock. They
had a wonderful time.
Speaker 6 (02:12):
But it would be the last image of Azaria alive.
By nine pm, she was dead, snatched from the family
tent by a hungry dingo.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
The Chamberlains drove into an area where dingos were known
to have harassed or even attacked children.
Speaker 6 (02:33):
Sally Shaw, her husband Greg, and baby daughter Chantal were
also on a camping trip to Azrak.
Speaker 7 (02:39):
There was no warning then of any danger or anything.
The only thing I saw was there was a notice
in the toilet block to say don't feed the low
called dingos in the area.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I later found out that six weeks prior to Azaria's disappearance,
a little girl, Amanda Cronwell from Victoria had been dragged
the family car and the parents that had do a divine.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
As rockhead ranger Derek Roff was already aware of the
dingo problem, and.
Speaker 8 (03:09):
The dingoes were encroaching more and more upon our space
the wrong.
Speaker 6 (03:14):
With help from the team in the Northern Territory Archive Service,
I found this rare audio interview with the late Derek Roff.
Speaker 8 (03:23):
And we were giving it a great deal of thought,
and eventually I determined that we'd really have to get
rid of some of the dingles that becoming more and
more of a problem, and I requested permission to get
some high power rifle bullets and we were going to
shield a number of dingos.
Speaker 6 (03:44):
To back up his request for bullets, Roff wrote a
report in which he warned his superiors that children and
babies could be considered pray. Roff was ignored.
Speaker 8 (03:56):
I didn't get the I didn't get the bullets and
whatever you in a fortnight, l Azariah disappeared.
Speaker 6 (04:02):
Derek ROV's Dingo report was hidden from the public and
from the first coroner. And why was it hidden, Well,
would you take your family to airs Rock on a
holiday if the dingoes were baby killers? After decades of silence,
Sally Shaw agreed to go back to the night of
August seventeen, nineteen eighty, the night that ruined so many lives.
Speaker 7 (04:27):
And she hadn't been back very very long. And I
heard the baby cry and I didn't say anything, but
Michael said that's Bobby or something, you know, and then
he goes, I didn't hear anything, and I said, oh,
that was definitely the baby's cry. And it was like
a short, sharp cry, and that's when she let out
(04:50):
the cry. I keep it commercial still forty years since then.
It it was garaging, It really was. It just really
it was like someone put a knife through you. The
cry that you heard. It was really really horrific. And
(05:17):
I just sort of poked into the tent and that's
when I realized that that there wasn't going to be
any hope none. Nearly knelt in a pool of blood
in front of me. I just in my mind as
soon as I saw the blood and associated with a
cry to me that child was dead. First person to
(05:37):
arrive on the scene then was the ranger and tracker.
Speaker 8 (05:43):
Thought one when the alarm went up that night was God,
it's happened, you know, and everybody I think on the park.
I thought that, right, this is without a doubt the
dinguished taking the baby and what have you.
Speaker 7 (05:58):
And Lindy and I coached lowline shrubbed there. I mean,
the baby could have been dropped. That was their hope
that the baby would have been dropped somewhere.
Speaker 6 (06:08):
Near Within minutes of Lindy's cry, there were dozens of people,
including Roth and his fellow rangers, looking for Azaria. They
were joined by the local police and indigenous trackers.
Speaker 8 (06:22):
That night we followed tracks together with another reginal elder
by the name of Nui. We followed tracks that night
and within twelve feet of the tent. The following day
we followed tracks of an animal carrying something. There were
enough evidence of shore that women in Barbara days to
walk about. Barbara Chikapou and Kiddie Collins excellent trackers.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And at one point the dingo appears to have put
something down and on the sand there were apparent impressions
of fabric.
Speaker 8 (06:56):
Found all the signs. We followed the animal for five
six more, unsuccessfully in recoverying Messiah the police.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I don't think the police did a bad job. That
they were stuck with an unprecedented situation. They did their best.
Speaker 6 (07:14):
On the night, around two hundred and fifty volunteers scoured
the bush for four hours in the dark and bitter cold.
Speaker 7 (07:28):
The search went on. Michael and Greg came back at
various times. I tried to talk to Greg about what
I'd seen in the tent, but he was just his
mind was off in another direction. Years ago he'd identified
his brother in law who's badly smashed in a car accident,
and he was really affected by He said, you know,
what they're going to find is not going to be pretty.
(07:50):
You know, they shouldn't let these school kids be out there.
Speaker 8 (07:52):
Searching and the oboriginal people would convinced that Dinga was
the party, and I certainly was with a dingual ninety
nine point nine percent.
Speaker 7 (08:05):
And to this day, I think another half hour and
it would have been our own child, you know, because
she would have been in our tent and who's to
say we wouldn't zip the tent up because it was
the tent was right there. You know, we might have
left the tent unzipped. Anything could have happened.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
Around midnight, Derek Roff called everyone back to the campsite
and stopped the search for the evening. Michael Chamberlain thanked everyone,
and several people hugged him.
Speaker 7 (08:37):
We stayed with the searching for I don't know, several hours,
but then you know, we've got chantel. She was a
seventeen month old, So we went to the nearest motel
and we were going to sleep in the vehicle outside
the motel. Greg just felt that was a safe place
to be, and when we went inside, people who managed
though a motel gave us a room free for the night.
Speaker 6 (09:01):
A local nurse, ROBERTA. Downs, organized a motel room for
the Chamberlain's. The police agreed to drive them there, but
they could only fit Lindy and her two sons in
their vehicle. As a parent, what happened next just feels tragic.
(09:21):
Michael Chamberlain stayed back at the campsite and quietly packed
the family car with the clothes and blankets from the
blood stained tent. He was joined by fellow tourist Amy Whittaker,
who later testified that she saw no blood in the
car and didn't get any blood on her clothing. Roberta
(09:42):
Downs wanted to check in on Lindy, so she joined
Michael in the family car for the short drive to
the motel. She sat on the passenger's seat. Why is
this important? Why am I mentioning the blood in the car?
Lindy Chamberlain was later convicted on scientific evidence that she
had decapitated Azaria in the same car with a small
(10:05):
pair of nail scissors while sitting on the passenger's seat,
the same seat that Roberta Downs sat on. Downs also
testified in court that she saw no blood in the
car and didn't get any blood on her clothing. Neither
Downs nor Whittaker were interviewed by airs Rock police. In
(10:27):
the coming year, Police investigators, then forensic scientists, lawyers, and
finally a jury ignored what these two women and Sally
Shaw saw and heard. But that's not all. There's a
lot more you need to know. They did that early
(10:48):
experiment with the dragging the effigy through the bush. Yeah,
I'm working on this podcast with Stephen, the manager of
our National Library. He's searching through all of the interviews
and all of the footage it's been archived from the
Seven Networks coverage of the Chamberlain case. He found this
recording of Sergeant John Lincoln from the Northern Territory Police
(11:12):
as he announced the Chamberlain story for the first time.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
He had been found of the.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
Whole Chamberlain story isn't written down. So I've made a
list of the people who I may be able to
talk with to help me understand just what happened, people
like Sergeant John Lincoln, journalist Jeff de Luca, and Greg Low.
Some cannot bear the thought of reliving this horrible memory
(11:43):
from nineteen eighty, while others have passed away. With help
from Rick, who heads up our foreign desk at seven,
I found the junior reporter who created Seven's first story
on the Chamberlains. I asked Mike Smithson how he first
heard of the story.
Speaker 9 (12:00):
Sudden we heard a report coming down from Airs Rock
that a dingo had taken a baby, and everyone thought, well,
this is a bit strange. We haven't heard of that
happening before.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
Smithson became an award winning crime reporter, but in nineteen
eighty he'd only just moved from newspapers to television. He
was told to get to airs Rock as fast as
possible and get an interview with the parents of the
missing baby, Lindy and Michael.
Speaker 9 (12:29):
Chamberlain's life had changed forever in the space of half
an hour, but at that stage, no one really knew
where this story was headed and all of the intrigue
and the crime and the mystique about it that would
follow for years and decades to come.
Speaker 6 (12:51):
Derek Roth, the head ranger, and the Indigenous trackers began
a new search for Azaria. At dawn Sally Shaw and
her husband Greg, we're awake at their motel.
Speaker 7 (13:03):
Greg decided we wouldn't stay because we thought, well, we'd
have to stay in the tent and now, you know,
our child would be in danger, and so we went
to check out what was happening. We drove around the
road to the side of the camp and it was
Derreck Roth we saw first and asked him where the
(13:24):
policeman was, because, as had Degreg, we've got to make
a statement. We went a bit further and spoke to
the policeman and he said, oh, no, it's fine, We've
got your details if we need to contact you. It's
all cutting, you know, it's all I don't think you
use those words, but he was saying, it's all cut
and dried. We we know what's happened. Our priority now
is to try and find the baby, you know. You know,
(13:45):
So as far as he was concerned, what happened happened,
and now they were trying to follow up with we're
finding what's happened to the baby? Yeah, and that's that's
how we left it so.
Speaker 10 (14:01):
Well.
Speaker 7 (14:01):
To me, I watched too much television. I thought, well,
shou'd have made a statement. But on the other hand,
I totally agreed with him. It was all, you know,
what happened happened. It was cut and dry, and that
was the priority now, to find the baby or what
(14:21):
was left the baby.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
At the Ularu motel, the Chamberlains were inundated with calls
from newspapers who wanted to know all about Azaria and
wanted to get an image for their front pages. Rather
than rejoin the search party, Michael agreed to go back
to the campsite to take a photo of the bloodstained
tent for the media. Yes, I thought the same thing.
(14:50):
It's odd. But then I looked at the list of
common reactions that people have to a sudden traumatic incident.
It ranges from sadness to confusion. So that was again
was the primary Malcolm Brown was a senior journalist at
the Sydney Morning Herald for forty years. He covered the
(15:10):
Chamberlain's story and got to know Michael and Lindy.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Their reactions after the disamine of his area brought them
under a lot of criticism, including Michael's scuttling around trying
to find black and white film on the day afterwards
because a reporter in Melbourne had wanted to get a
shot of the tent. Michael said that he was doing
that because he wanted to warn everyone else about what happened.
(15:35):
But it was unusual response. But as I've said at
the time, there's no rule saying how people should respond
a traumatic circumstances. People respond, they cry, they faint, they
get violent or I laugh that people can wrect any
way you like.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
Stuart Tipple, the Chamberlain's long time lawyer, reached out to
me to share his stories stories from a case that
defined his career. While some were suspicious of Lindy and
Michael's reaction, it signaled something else. To Stewart.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
One of the things that immediately impressed me about the Chamberlains.
If you're guilty and you've got something to hide, you
don't tend to go out and talk to people and
so readily allow people into the car. I mean, on
that night they allowed tracker dogs into the car. To
(16:38):
get the send of Azaria's clothing.
Speaker 6 (16:45):
An Adelaide newspaper team were the first Metropolitan media to
arrive at Allie Springs Airport. They were in a race
to get the first film interview with the Chamberlains, and
they hired a light aircraft to fly them the ninety
minute trip to Airsrock. The Alice Springs Police had already
(17:06):
flown to Airsrock and met the Chamberlains at their motel.
Inspector Gilroy and Sergeant Lincoln asked Lindy if she could
describe the clothing that Azaria had been wearing the previous night.
Lindy spoke of a disposable nappy, a singlet, a stretch
tailing suit, a pair of booties, and a knitted matinee jacket.
(17:31):
If you remember nothing else from this episode, just remember
the lack of blood on the car seat and Azaria's
matinee jacket. After talking to the police, the Chamberlains went
outside and met the Adelaide newspaper team. Michael stood with
(17:51):
Aiden on his hip and Lindy was carrying Reagan. Both
boys were blonde haired and lean, like their father. Aiden
was almost seven and Reagan was four. I discovered that
not only was Michael Chamberlain a pastor at his church,
but he had also completed a media and journalism course,
(18:11):
so it makes sense that he was more at ease
with public speaking and in talking to the film crew.
Speaker 11 (18:17):
But when we saw the spots of blood in the tent,
as we looked, we realized it must have been a
very quick event. And this morning, when we saw in
the blanket the sharp, ripped, jagged marks in that very
thickly woven blanket, we knew that that was a powerful
beast and the sharp teeth. It was more than a
domestic dog that did that.
Speaker 6 (18:37):
And then it was time for Lindy Chamberlain to talk
about what had happened the night.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Before, and I just yelled there wasn't time to go
and tell people.
Speaker 11 (18:46):
I just yelled out as anyone got a talk, then
goes got my baby.
Speaker 6 (18:53):
It was an interview that became famous in Australia and
around the world. A mother in shock along side a
stoic father, parents in a state of disbelief. But because
they didn't act like us and they didn't look like us,
their comments were eventually mocked on The Simpsons and on
(19:15):
Seinfeld the death of a child as a joke.
Speaker 9 (19:22):
The enormity of the grief that Lindy Chamberlain was suffering
at that time, and Michael Chamberlain and the other children
as opposed to a suspicious media that is casting doubt
from the word go on the validity of what Lindy
Chamberlain was saying. It was enormous.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
Seven years reporter Mike Smithson had arrived at Ezrach and
was part of a growing media.
Speaker 9 (19:46):
Contingent at that stage. It wasn't a frenetic police search
that you sometimes might imagine that we have got to
find this baby at all costs. It was more of
a reflective I've done the initial police investigation, where do
we go to from here? Because we've found a bit
(20:06):
of evidence, but we certainly haven't found the remains of
the baby.
Speaker 8 (20:10):
You know, we patrol, researched, we did everything.
Speaker 10 (20:14):
You know.
Speaker 6 (20:15):
The englishman charged with finding Azaria had lived in Central
Australia for more than a decade. Derek Roff moved to
Australia after many years working in the Kenyon Wildlife Reserves.
He had extensive experience with managing tourists and wildlife. And
Roff was a former policeman.
Speaker 8 (20:35):
We had a lot of police around in Montevie, but
you know, some of them, I don't think we're all
that well experienced at the time, you know, in that
time of investigation, and they took a certain line and
they wanted to fit things into it.
Speaker 6 (20:49):
With no evidence of Azaria found, the Northern Territory Police
turned their attention to the dingoes.
Speaker 8 (20:57):
It policed decided that they wanted to shoot an dingos
check stomach contents. I think there were six killed. It
would have been good evidence, if you know, as areas
bones had been found in a dingo's gout, but it wasn't,
you know, there weren't.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
The lack of evidence seemed to feed suspicions. First in
the media. It's it's against all dingo habits.
Speaker 8 (21:24):
They keep run away from even the center Man. We
had a lot of experts that came out the would
work of course on dingos at the time, and they
were making comments like, oh, dingo would never do this,
and whatever you want to say, ludicrous. You know, these
people ought to know a hell of a lot more.
You've got a wealth of experience of the bears in
North America. You've got elephants and baboons in Keena, for example.
(21:47):
The everywhere you've got animals and human beings mixing. There
is that breakdown of that area around you know where
you've got this protected area. People can approach so far,
but once they get into that boundary then there is
an attack or defense or what have your mechanism.
Speaker 6 (22:08):
We'll return to a perfect storm. In just a moment.
To hear the Chamberlain's first full interview, it seemed a
perfect storm was forming around the Chamberlains. Experts knew that
dingoes were a problem, but the animals were also part
of a major tourist attraction. Without a body and a
(22:31):
conclusion to the case, some members of the media went
looking for an alternate story, and the Chamberlains, by their actions,
provided it to them. They left Airs Rock for their
home in Mount iSER.
Speaker 8 (22:47):
They did.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Everything they did was wrong. Couldn't have been more calculated
to have antagonized people. They left on the Tuesday, well,
people were still searching and that was odd. I think
they concluded the baby was dead, but you would think
that others parents staying on and on and joining the search.
(23:09):
It was an astonishing response, but as I said, no
rule as to how people react.
Speaker 6 (23:14):
Malcolm Brown was later acknowledged by the Chamberlains as being
one of a handful of media professionals to have reported
their story fairly. Philip Castle was another.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I'd been a journalist about six or seven years before
the actual Lindy story broke.
Speaker 6 (23:34):
He agreed to record an interview from our studios.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Risk that a dingo had taken the baby.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
I asked Philip to recall the police reaction to Azaria
Chamberlain's death.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
The initial police investigation from the very first constables from
the Northern Territory who turned up didn't really do a
proper crime scene coverage as is normal. But of course
people were running around trying to find the dingo and
therefore the primary forensic evidence about tracts and so on
(24:11):
wasn't immediately available to them and probably never was because
it had been so disturbed.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
After he left the Camera Times, Philip Castle worked as
a media officer of the Australian Federal Police. His boss
was a former Northern Territory Police commissioner, Ron mcaulay, who
ultimately approved the police case against the Chamberlains.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
And when he spoke to me privately some years later,
he felt that they were not equipped as a police
force to have dealt with such a complicated, difficult case,
and because of police jealousies and territorial sort of spheres
(24:56):
of influence, they did not call upon the outside resis horses,
which probably could have helped them.
Speaker 6 (25:03):
The mistakes by the Northern Territory Police were mounting up.
We'll hear more from Philip later.
Speaker 7 (25:11):
The police didn't take a statement from us, They didn't
really establish with the people who were there on the
night what happened. And I understand they might have been
intent on finding the baby and that was their priority,
but they did not, you know, talk to the people
(25:31):
who were immediately camping next to the Chamberlains or whatever
like that didn't happen. If things like that had happened,
it may have prevented a lot of that speculation down
the track because it was a bit I was going
to say half asked, but that's a bit cruel really.
I think their priority was I'm finding the baby and
(25:55):
the fact that this sort of thing doesn't happen every day.
They haven't got that proceeding in place. You can't blame them,
but I think it started to break down at that
early stage.
Speaker 6 (26:09):
By now the Chamberlains had returned to their home in
the small outback town of Mount Isa. Rumors, innuendo and
hate mail followed them from Airs Rock. Stephen found this
interview in our archive of Lindy speaking to seven News
over the phone.
Speaker 10 (26:28):
We've been told that we beat the baby and that
she was in hospital with black and blue bruisers for
a four week before we left on holidays, that she
was not a wanted baby and it was a good
way to get rid of her, that it was a
bizarre religious ritual.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
Malcolm Brown is a retired newspaper journalist of forty years.
He covered the entire Chamberlain case.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
And the Chamberlains wherever they went were always an odd couple.
Didn't meet, they didn't drink. He was a part a church.
It was not well understood. It was pointed there had
been a Methodist or presipitual and Baptist or Catholics would
have been a different manners confused with the Java's witnesses.
But so a lot of misunderstanding about the Seventh Day
(27:15):
events will and even talk of practicing black magic.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
With pressure growing on them every day, the Chamberlain's decided
to speak out. They recorded this interview with Seven reporter
Howard Gibbs.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
I yelled at the dog to scare it off, and
then it sort of registered on my mind as I
was running to the tent because I thought the kiddies
are in there. She has cried, it has disturbed her,
and I immediately the only thing I could think of
was first aid. When I got in the tent, it
(27:52):
was just nothing, and I called for my husband. I
didn't really couldn't believe the evidence of my own eyes,
and I called to Michael that Dingo's got the baby.
And I flew out of the tent as quick as
I called, and he said.
Speaker 11 (28:08):
What And I rushed into the tent and we looked
around quickly and couldn't see anything. I thought what else
could have had? And I rushed out into the blackness,
and I felt as hopeless as I ever felt in
my life. And I heard some Christian music. I knew
I couldn't see anything around, and I just ran towards
the Christian music and I called out to the people
(28:29):
in the tent there. I said, look, I said, if
you've got a light, come out and search and help us.
If you haven't, please pray, because a dog or a dingo,
wild dog, a dingo has got our baby.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
I chased the dog. I went round the corner of
the car, and it was standing at the back of
the car, obviously wanting to go in the opposite direction.
And I was in the road and it took off
up into the bush and I chased it until it
was dark.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
You're certain chairs did, aren't you? Yes, the reconcile yourself
to that.
Speaker 12 (29:03):
So much bloodste Yes, we found not so much blood
looking back now that she was definitely dead when she
left that tent, in our opinion, certainly unconscious.
Speaker 6 (29:17):
Does your faith tell you anything about Azaria now?
Speaker 11 (29:21):
Yes, we believe that Azaria is asleep now. The Bible
speaks of death as being asleep, and we believe that
she waits now not knowing anything for the hope of
the resurrection. And one of the firmest things that helps
us in our faith is that we believe that we
(29:41):
shall see her again, because she was an innocent, precious
bundle of little joy. But if God is merciful, and
we know that he is, that we will see her again.
Speaker 6 (29:54):
Yes, I asked the chamberlain's longtime lawyer, Stewart Tipple, if
Lindy and Michael's faith was the main reason that the
public didn't believe them.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
Lindy and Michael and I certainly had a lot of
common factors, including our belief in God and our religious beliefs.
I think that helped me understand them. I was able
to understand some of the pronouncements that Michael made that
(30:24):
this is God's will and so on and so forth,
which was a view that some Christians have that whatever
happens to you is God's will. It's not something that
I subscribe to and a lot of other Christians name.
My view always is that bad things happen to good people.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
The main reason that I'm making this podcast is to
break down the blind belief that we all have in
the criminal justice system. Yes, our courts get it right,
most of the time, but when they don't, good people
go to Jall for Life. If you subscribe now, you'll
get an alert the moment our next show drops. I'd
(31:06):
like to say thanks to Nicky Simon and Stephen who
helped create this episode, and a shout out to Vanessa
Rick and Michael Usher. And thanks to you for listening.
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