Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode is not suitable for children to listen to
or overhear. It may contain course language, adult themes, and
graphic descriptions. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners are advised
that the following program may contain the names of people
who have died. A perfect Storm, The true story of
(00:21):
the Chamberlains.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I think Azaria would have lasted a matter of minutes.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
There were certain people within the Northern Territory Police who
were determined to get her.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
People were saying to me, Oh, you're going there to
see that woman who.
Speaker 5 (00:35):
Killed a child. Bad things happen to good people.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Episode six, The Smoking Gun.
Speaker 6 (00:46):
Hello, my name is John Buck. I started making a
documentary late last year about a miscarriage of justice, one
of the worst in this country's history and one of
the most famous. I'm trying to understand how a mother
of three, a suburban housewife who was not responsible for
her daughter's death, still went to jail. And it may
(01:11):
come down to the egos of a few influential men
and one woman. The Australian forensic scientists and police detectives
that had failed to convince Coron and Barrett of the
Chamberlain's guilt, retested the baby's clothes and then persuaded the
government that they had enough fresh evidence to open a
(01:32):
new investigation. Armed with the warrant, Northern Territory detectives raided
the Chamberlain's home and seized their car, all the while
recording their work and phone calls.
Speaker 7 (01:46):
Well, will only ever get one good crack at them two.
Speaker 8 (01:50):
We want to be well armed before we have again.
You know, we'll out for ending and emitting before we.
Speaker 6 (01:55):
Get After months, I managed to convince the Northern Territory
Police Fire and Emergency Information Archive to give me access
to these recordings. Some have been written about, but none
have been heard publicly before.
Speaker 8 (02:10):
Now, yeah you can Today.
Speaker 6 (02:19):
After a series of failed results on the Chamberlain's ki
the Operation Ocha, Detective Mark Plum calls his brother, Detective
Superintendent Neil Plum in Darwend.
Speaker 9 (02:30):
Hello, there you go.
Speaker 8 (02:31):
Ah, well we might brighten your day for you. Yes,
we have.
Speaker 9 (02:36):
Got people in the area and there is a lot
of blood. You can see the actual ride of waking
blood on the seat.
Speaker 8 (02:43):
I think we've got it without a down.
Speaker 6 (02:46):
Joy Cool, a biologist with the Health Commission in Sydney,
was conducting the tests for the Northern Territory Police. Cool
is the she mentioned in this next.
Speaker 8 (02:57):
Clip, Da perap dear good, Jesus quite happy.
Speaker 7 (03:07):
And what wepeter.
Speaker 9 (03:08):
Happy is either the child was gilded across the area
of the or was there am.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
I certainly didn't know what fetal hemoglobin was before I
started the production. Let me share with you just what
Cool and the police are testing for. Fetal Hemoglobin is
produced by a fetus in the womb to distribute oxygen
to the unborn child because it is unable to breathe.
Before we are born, we stop producing fetal hemoglobin and
(03:41):
start producing adult hemoglobin in order to get ready to
breathe air. Now, after we're born, we slow down making
fetal hemoglobin until we stop at around six months of age.
The average adult has two percent fetal hemoglobin and ninety
eight percent adult hemoglobin in their system, and a baby
(04:04):
of Azaria Chamberlain's age would have had around thirty percent
fetal hymoglobin. Joy Coole's early tests were already reading at
fifty percent, which was wrong. This is another recording made
(04:24):
by the Northern Territory Police in September nineteen eighty one.
Detective Superintendent Neil Plum is talking to Detective Sergeant Graham
Childwood about Lindy Chamberlain.
Speaker 8 (04:37):
Is she seem to have some probably post natal depression.
Speaker 7 (04:44):
As far as.
Speaker 6 (04:45):
Postnatal impresion, we haven't gone.
Speaker 8 (04:46):
Into that with anyone was carrying it on.
Speaker 7 (04:54):
Pleaders.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
I'm going to reach out to the two police officers
you've just heard the old fashioned way. I'm sending them
two typewritten letters. Now. I don't expect Detective Sergeant Childwood
or Detective Superintendent Club to respond, but I wanted to
give them the opportunity to tell their side of the story.
(05:22):
The Northern Territory Police has in recent years, through its
commissioners and archive management, decided that despite the fact that
these recordings are obviously damning the people of the Territory
and more broadly Australia, should get access to them.
Speaker 8 (05:42):
When you know for sure that they're finished with the car,
let me.
Speaker 7 (05:47):
Know straight away.
Speaker 8 (05:49):
And we're going to take possession of the car. We're
going to bring it to the territory.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
I've got to keep it pretty low key at the
moment because everything says to we get them out to
the Black.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Lindy and Michael Chamberlain's yellow Tarana was flown to a
police maintenance compound in Alla Springs yesterday. It came on
a secret flight by an rua Af caribou from Sydney
via Adelaide.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Virtually all the incriminating evidence had been leaked out to
the willing media by the police.
Speaker 6 (06:19):
Malcolm Brown is a retired newspaper journalist of forty years.
He covered the entire Chamberlain case.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Even the contents of the Cameron Report advancing the theory of
murder and of possible decapitation, and of the bloodied handprint
on the jump set had all been leaked out of
the media. Probably the police might have been governed, but
it was all leaked out. The chambers there were very
strictly defended. They were to be protected. They'll be driven
(06:48):
in various cars by supporters to try to fool the
media and lower certainly under a lot of seeds in.
Speaker 10 (06:57):
I understand from territory sources that detectives involved in the
investigation have uncovered further startling new evidence.
Speaker 8 (07:03):
For wowing together.
Speaker 7 (07:05):
There's big mobs of TV crews and reporters in Alice
at the moment running for the big search.
Speaker 8 (07:11):
Twenty kilometers out of Alice. Now that all came from
Bonning here, she'd be a bit of a dickhead, wouldn't she.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
This is the area about sixteen kilometers south of the
Alice where a local woman, Annette Bonning, claims she saw
a car broken down on the side.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Of the road.
Speaker 7 (07:29):
Bulls in the one thing. Note, we've got to do
the whole bloody lot of ourselves now.
Speaker 9 (07:34):
Well the door over the papers down here today she
spent finding about a big team of detective or pleat
searching pic team. Okay, whatever it is.
Speaker 8 (07:45):
Out of cheez, bloody work.
Speaker 11 (07:48):
The police are also looking for a matinee jacket the
baby Azaria was wearing on the lunch she disappeared from
her parents' tent last year.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Police sources say the search is.
Speaker 8 (07:57):
To here's Tom here I am man. But then apparently
the contractor they put the men in when he was
digging the holes for the post more needed medonate jacket.
Speaker 7 (08:10):
Oh you joking a shit?
Speaker 8 (08:13):
What do you do with it? Can you time out
for us? Run my urgent? Oh yeah, uh, surely not.
Speaker 6 (08:31):
I couldn't find any details of this search, but I
do know from police records that it isn't Azariah's missing
matinee jacket.
Speaker 10 (08:39):
It's now more than a month since mister Ebringham announced
the new police investigation. If there is to be a
new inquest will most likely be held here in Alice Springs.
Pressure on mister Bringham to announce the results of the.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Police Paul Evingham had been a solicitor and he had
Alice Springs.
Speaker 7 (08:58):
I'm from Channel seven years.
Speaker 10 (08:59):
I was just wondering if we got the investigation here, I.
Speaker 7 (09:03):
Don't think it would be very profitable for where it
took Well, is there is there an? Is there an
investigation going on?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Just and he had was very keen on development of
the Northern Territory, became Chief Ministry, was advocating the establishment
of a university, very very pro development at all phases
and certainly did not want the Northern Territory's image denigrated
in the hours of the world.
Speaker 7 (09:28):
Things are running right at the moment, Everingham is concerned
a large coverage that is receiving.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
We asked for a comment on the chamber with no comment.
Can you tell us whether there be an announcement this
weekend or early next week? Comment every Ham, Brian Martin
and the other Jim Robertson and Marshall Perrin and all
the other Solicited generals, they had to deal with this
case whence they had this scientific and given to them
(10:01):
which was worthy of investigation, and they had to follow
the system through.
Speaker 12 (10:07):
I would have thought my attitude was pretty clear to
you and to the very many journalists who've been making
life miserable for me and making life miserable for the
Chamberlains over this matter in the course of the past
couple of weeks. I think the behavior of the media
has been rather like that of a bunch of vampires.
Any speculation is entirely the responsibility of the media. I've
(10:31):
said nothing on the substance of the case, and I
propose to say nothing further about it until I in
my position as Attorney General, as a response, as the
man principally responsible for the fair and just administration of
law and order in the Northern Territory, and am in
a position to say something definite or take some definite action.
Speaker 10 (10:52):
As has become their custom. Northern Territory officials won't comment
on those reports from Sydney of a breakthrough in the case,
but it's understood Chief Minister Paul Everingham may call a
news conference for early next week, one of the options
open to him to reopen the inquest into the death
of Azariah Chamberlain.
Speaker 6 (11:10):
I asked former Federal Circuit Court Judge Kenneth Raffoul if
it is unusual for a government to quash a coronet
inquest and order a new one.
Speaker 13 (11:20):
The Northern Territory Police Force decided that they would make
up for the failings that Barrett had found, and so
they redid quite a lot of the forensic evidence. And
when they redid the forensic evidence, they came up with
different conclusions and they managed to persuade the Attorney General
(11:41):
to order a second inquest. The holding of second inquest
is not unusual. It's not unusual, but it is uncommon.
Speaker 6 (11:48):
The Northern Territory government kept all of their moves secret.
Stuart Tipple, the Chamberlain's longtime lawyer, explained to me what
happened next.
Speaker 5 (11:59):
The Northern Territory made a secret application to have the
findings of the first in quest quashed, which they had
to do before another one could be held. So the
Chamblains were not notified about that, and they were not
given any opportunity to appear or make representations.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
Coroner Dennis Barrett was removed from the case after he
insisted that the Chamberlain's be told of the second inquest.
I asked retired Judge Kenneth Raphael if there was anything
sinister in that fact.
Speaker 13 (12:32):
No, I don't think there's anything sinister about it. I
think that the advantages of giving it back to the
same person that heard the case before. But on the
other hand, that person had expressed very strong views and
could be said to have the appearance of fixed ideas
about it, and therefore it would be more in the
(12:53):
interests of justice to appoint someone completely new, who hadn't
got any fixed ideas about it, who was prepared to
hear all the evidence again and come through perhaps an
independent decision that if Barrett had been in charge of
the inquest again, that he was the subject of apprehended
bis apprehended biases only it's not actual bias, but it's
(13:15):
the appearance of bias, the fact that the reasonable bystander
with knowledge of the matters involved, could come to the
conclusion that the person hearing the case might be biased
one way or another, or have fixed views one way
or another. So given the fact that there was some
(13:36):
new evidence to consider. I don't think there's anything sinister, imamnd.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
The police officer attended my office, asked for the chambers
to be there. He served them with a summons to
attend the inquest and gave them return tickets and as
an aside, said to me they won't really be needing
a return ticket.
Speaker 8 (14:03):
Well.
Speaker 11 (14:03):
Everringham announced today he'd applied to the Supreme Court to
have the original inquest quashed. His announcement ends months of
speculation over what action would be taken over new police evidence.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
Investigating we managed to find in our news archive this
interview with Dennis Barrett by seven reporter Nick McCallum on
the day the second inquest was announced.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Do you feel it's put a bit of doubt on
your finding at the inquest?
Speaker 7 (14:29):
Well, not knowing.
Speaker 9 (14:30):
What the nature of the evidence is and not knowing
of its credibility.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
I'm just not.
Speaker 8 (14:40):
In a position.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
A day yet or No, you don't think this has
affected your own credibility.
Speaker 8 (14:47):
Time a lane will tell that.
Speaker 6 (14:51):
Many years would pass by before Dennis Barrett's judgment was
truly appreciated. Almost a year to the day since their
daughter was snatched away from them by Dingo. The Chamberlains
arrived in Alice Springs. Mike, could you say do you
know whether the police have any new evidence at all?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Right to make any comment at all, Mike.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
At the second inquest, the Chamberlains were represented by Philip
Rice QC, Peter Dean, Andrew Kirkham and Stuart Tipple.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Well I was asked to attend the second in quest
and I went there really in an advisory role.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Well, Stuart Tipple was thrown into this. He was a
Seventh Day Adventist.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
Malcolm Brown was at the trial to report for the
Sydney Morning Herald. Malcolm and I have talked many times
about the case. In fact, one time we were interrupted
by his dog. I asked Malcolm to talk a little
about Stuart Tipple.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
He was trusted, he had done a work as a
young solicitor with the Public Defenders Office. He was dogged
and he was cool headed, and he stayed the distance.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
When I arrived. Andrew Kirkham later said to me he
expected that someone that he describes as the church lawyer
would arrive. He thought of some little fellow with gray
hair and so on, and he was a bit surprised
when I walked in.
Speaker 6 (16:24):
I've also got to know Stuart Tipple this past year,
and yes, he is a surprise at first. He's young
for his age, no longer sporting than the stars that
many people would remember as he walked into court alongside
his clients on the nightly news. Stuart is always positive
(16:44):
and very patient. Can you imagine how many times he's
been asked these questions. Stuart has been recognized in recent
years by his peers for his contributions to the law
and justice, But as he began work with the Chamber,
Stuart probably had no idea how career defining this case
(17:04):
would become.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
At that point, I'd had no contact with Northern Territory Police.
I'd had quite a bit to do with serious crime
squads in New South Wales. I'd worked for a couple
of years of the public solicitors in the indictable section
just doing indictable heavy crime matters murders, rapes, armed robberies,
(17:27):
so it's pretty well aware of the way they operated.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
The second inquest was held by Coroner Jerry Galvin CM,
who was the Chief Stipendery Magistrate of the Northern Territory.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
The magistrate was wearing two hats. He was a coroner
and he was an inquiring magistrate, which at the end
of the or during the proceedings could at some stage
commit people to trial.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I might be a little bit risky saying this, but
I think the Northern Territory Goverment had simply briefed Jerry Galvin,
the coroner, make it and get the chamberins under trial
them and I couldn't swee to that, but I think
that the assumption was that this is just a formality
and get them before trial. They had just a prominent
(18:12):
Queensland barrister. They're a big style of a big man
with a very aggressive style to get the chamberlains before
a court.
Speaker 6 (18:24):
I asked retired Judge Kenneth Rafael about the strategy of
the defense lawyers where clearly the defense.
Speaker 13 (18:32):
Well that you call them the defense, you see, but
you're jumping ahead of yourself because an inquest is and
inquiries I really pointed out before, so there's there's nobody's
been accused.
Speaker 10 (18:43):
A couple were astered to the rear entrance of the building.
Court Room one was closed to the public and reporters
until the chamberlains were seated.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
Coroner Jerry Galvin's inquest started in a very different way
than Dennis Barrett's. The brief of evidence was not shared.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
So what you would normally do, and what has happened
in every other case I've ever been involved in, you
would get a brief of evidence, so you'd know what
the evidence was.
Speaker 13 (19:12):
I could see where he's coming from, where police have
made it quite clear that they believe that his clients
had something to do with the death. Are you going
to try and use the inquest to establish a primer
facy case against the Chamberlains? And in those circumstances, he
says he would have expected a brief of evidence, and
(19:34):
I think, in just general fairness, I think he's right.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
And of course they called Michael Chamberlain's the first witness.
Speaker 10 (19:43):
Was called as a witness, sparking a class between the
Chamberlain's Council.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
And Well, it wasn't just odd, it was hardly prejudicial
because what they wanted to do, as they later explained
to us, is that they wanted to make sure the
Chamberlains weren't going to lie. They didn't want them to
find out what the evidence was against them. They really
wanted them to be able to be questioned about how
(20:10):
they could explain blood in the car and some of
the other scientific evidence. They wanted them to commit themselves
to those without having the chance of making up any stories.
Speaker 6 (20:24):
We need to take a quick break and we'll return
to a perfect storm in just a moment.
Speaker 10 (20:31):
During today's session. A tape record interview between Missus Chamberlain
and a police inspector made the evening after Azaria, but
it was played to the court. In it, Missus Chamblain
described seeing a dingo coming out of their tent.
Speaker 14 (20:43):
And I saw the dingo from about shoulder up, and
he looked as if I thought he'd got a fright
and heard me coming with having trouble getting out ten
flat people they'd had to get out, and I immediately
(21:05):
I didn't realize he was in there, and I was
the cry, he's disturbed the baby he might have savage
to The thought went through my mind because I'd heard
of the bite that they'd been biting around here. And
then I I yelled at him to get out of
the road, and it took fright and ran in front
(21:27):
of our car, which was parked right next to the tent,
but I didn't sort of keep looking at it. I'd
dive straight for the tent to see what had made
the baby cry. And when I got into in the tent,
her blankets for the three that the bunny rug and
the two thick blankets she'd had around her were scattered
from money into the tent to the other. I saw
(21:50):
where it went into the bush, and I realized it
was no good. And as soon as I called out
to my husband, the dingo's got my baby and he
came running.
Speaker 8 (22:11):
Well.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Some people thought that she had a different outfit every day,
and that you know that she was young and attractive
and things like that, but that should never have accounted
against her, and also with her religion. They just found
the way she dressed quite strange on some occasions. I
don't understand why people would think.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
That journalist Kim Tilbrook was at the second inquest and
he was watching the distressed parents.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
And aloofness also upset people as well. But I don't
know what people expected about her. After all, she'd lost
her baby.
Speaker 10 (22:46):
It was a parent from the start. The public at
least regarded Professor Cameron as the star witness, leading to
protest by the Chamberlain's Council that observers might wrongly assume
a trial was underway. Professor Cameron showed slides of Azaria's bloodstained.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
We certainly expected Professor CAMRA's evidence and that really wasn't
any surprise. But the areas of surprise for us was
first of all Professor Chakin, who was a textile expert.
He came along and he gave evidence that he had
examined the damage in the clothing, the jumpsuit, and he
was of the opinion that there was no way that
(23:23):
had been caused by a dingo.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
He also examined three tufts of fiber from the camera bag,
claiming each could have come from Azaria's jumpsuit.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
And he was convinced of that because when he examined
the damaged areas he could extract little cotton loops. The
jumpsuit was made of a cotton nylon material and when
it's cut with a pair of scissors in particular, it
creates these little cotton loops that fall off. And he
(23:51):
said that no one in the world dingo could damage
the jumpsuit. It had to be cut with a bladed instrument,
most likely pair scissors.
Speaker 10 (24:01):
Jim Metcalp of the Northern Tdury Police Force was the
first to take the stand this morning. He described tests
carried out in Sydney the detected blood in the car.
Those tests were carried out by Missus Joey Cool, a
forensic biologist with the New South Wales Health Commission. Blood
traces were found in various areas.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
The first the quist was about whether the dinga did
of the second English was about blood, which was the
key as far as the police and forensic scientists were
concerned to the Chamberlain's guilty of something other than the dinga.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
Joycool gave evidence that she was asked, amongst all of
the items, to examine the chamberlain car, which had been
seized when the police raided the chamberlain home. She told
us how she'd spent four days screening it, rubbing it
all with the blooding paper and applying the presumptive test.
She claimed that throughout the car she was getting positive
(24:57):
reactions which indicated to her that there had been blood
on most of the surfaces within the car. She also
then took a part the front passenger seat and found
what she said were dried flakes of blood. In all
she tested the car and the items and said that
(25:21):
she had with confirmation testing found twenty two positive instances
where it wasn't just human blood.
Speaker 7 (25:30):
But it was blood.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
Which contained fetal hemoglobin, which meant it had to be
most likely from a child under the age.
Speaker 7 (25:40):
Of six months.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
The Chamberlains had already given evidence by this stage, and
one of the areas that they were asked about was
had anyone bled in the car and they had already
given evidence, not knowing what was to come about an
instants where they had about a year before that picked
up an injured accident victim and he had what Lindy
(26:07):
described as a spurd an artery that had sprayed blood.
So they were not surprised that if the car had
been tested that blood was going to be found, and
their explanation had already been given that if blood was
found it was most likely this fellow they identified as
Keith Lenahan. But the one area that we could not
(26:32):
explain was a spray pattern that was found under the
dashboard in front of.
Speaker 8 (26:41):
The passenger seat.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Joy Cool gave evidence that she had tested this spray
and that three spots that she had tested contained fetal hemoglobin,
so that was really the smoking gun. That was something
that we couldn't explain from Keith Lenahan, and it gave
this graphic scenario that the Crown was able to propose that, well,
(27:08):
this is where the baby had been killed. Lindy had
taken her to the car, she'd sat on the seat,
she'd cut her throat or cut her head off, and
in the last act of a dying Azaria, this little
spray had sprayed from Azaria and sprayed the underdash area
(27:29):
while probably she was putting the baby in a camera bag.
Speaker 11 (27:34):
The inquest was also told of fetal or baby's bloodstains
in the Chamberlain's car, said to have been sprayed from
a small artery while the heart was still beating.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
It was absolutely devastating. It was devastating for the Chamblains
because they just could not understand it. It was devastating
for us because we had explanations why there was blood
in the car, but we certainly couldn't explain how an
underdat spray was found and discovered. So, you know, what
(28:04):
were the possibilities The possibility with the Chamberlains were lying,
or that the police had planted it, or that the
testing procedures were just so incompetently carried out.
Speaker 6 (28:20):
David Jones covered the second inquest for seven years.
Speaker 10 (28:23):
I'll turn my other phone off so I should be okay.
Speaker 6 (28:25):
I managed to track down David and I asked him
to return to December nineteen eighty one.
Speaker 10 (28:31):
There were days of high drama and the drama. The
high drama was led really by the evidence that was
being presented to the coroner. You know, whether it was
Professor Cameron's evidence or a dental expert, and all sorts
of people were giving evidence. The most dramatic, I guess
(28:51):
was the day that the forensic evidence was presented about
the fetal blood theory. You had a sense, obviously that
the entire country was following the inquest day by day.
Our way out.
Speaker 11 (29:10):
Well, that report was recorded earlier today by David Jones.
We can now cross to David live in our Springs.
Speaker 10 (29:16):
David was probably the first major national story in quest
of this magnitude that was brought into people's living rooms
on a nightly basis because of the ability to be
able to transmit footage from literally the center of the country,
(29:39):
which up until the development of electronic news gathering had
not been possible. David Jones, reporting live from Alice Springs
for seven National News.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
Most people don't realize that there's this independent witness who's
always said I heard the baby cry at the time
that the Crown said the baby was already dead.
Speaker 6 (30:05):
Stuart Tipple reminds us of the importance of Sally.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
Shaw because if on the Crown scenario, Lindy had killed
the baby when she'd left the barbecue and before she returned,
the baby wouldn't have cried out, and Sally and Michael
would not have heard the baby cry.
Speaker 10 (30:22):
It was the Sturgis who's assisting the coroners, but most
of the morning tendering exhibits, he said, some witnesses who
gave evidence to the previous inquest may be called again.
One such witness is a Tasmanian woman who was camping
near the Chamberlains with her husband an eighteen month old daughter.
Speaker 15 (30:37):
On the note, we both got telegrams to appear at
the second inquest, but all of a sudden they didn't
want Greg. They only wanted me.
Speaker 6 (30:45):
As I'm sure you remember, Sally Shaw was questioned for
more than four hours by Disbelieving Operation Okre detectives a
few months earlier.
Speaker 15 (30:56):
They had a pre interview with me again in the
quarter house there in one of their officers, and it
was all about, oh, you'd be keen to get back home,
and I go, no, no, I've got an open ticket.
It's all, it's all good. I just want to, you know,
get this sorted and you know, what have you.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
So the timing and the hearing of the cry was
very very important, and when Operation Ocre reopened the investigation,
they looked at this time frame and one of the
key things for them was to see if they could
get Sally to extend the time she believed Lindy had
(31:36):
left the barbecue with Aiden and.
Speaker 15 (31:38):
Return once again. It very quickly became clear that they
weren't interested in my evidence at all. It was the
whole time, it was all about the baby's cry, over
and over again, and that it wasn't a baby's cry
and it was a cry from the bush and how
(31:58):
would I know, because I don't live in the territory.
And I said, well, I've been camping out in the territory,
you know, and we'd had plenty of time to adjust
because we've been there, you know, adjust to the night
around you, and you know, and I've got a baby.
I know what a baby sounds like. It was just
over and over again, but it just they just kept
going on and on, and in the end I was
(32:19):
just I just thought, I'll play dumb blonde. I'll just
pretend that I don't know what they're getting at and
see if I can get out of this, you know,
and just get rid of them. Anyway, they left, and
it's just straight after that, I was just so angry
because like, they don't want to know the truth. They
(32:40):
don't believe me, you know, they're not interested in what
actually happened.
Speaker 5 (32:46):
They realized one of the big flaws in their case
was if Lindy committed the murder in the scenario they said,
it was a time of motion impossibility. And Sally has
always been steadfast in the timing what she said and
what she saw.
Speaker 15 (33:09):
Iran Greg and we had a long talk about it,
and I said, look, I'm going to the media. This
is ridiculous, you know, this is not right. And we
talked about it, and the thing we were always conscious
of was we didn't want to become hostile witnesses. We
didn't want to have our evidence discredited, you know, And
so we talked about it and agreed that we would
(33:32):
not go to the media.
Speaker 13 (33:36):
There's council's assisting job in an inquest is to assist
the coroner to come to a conclusion as to the
cause of.
Speaker 8 (33:45):
Death.
Speaker 13 (33:48):
But there's no doubt that they were technical in the
second inquest, and the reason for it was because they
believed they had this evidence, the blood on the car
and all that sort of stuff. It seems to me
they went about it in an adversarial manner, which is
probably not what they were meant to have done. The
proof of the of the error is in what happened
(34:11):
much later.
Speaker 15 (34:13):
I was feeling disillusioned and not as confident about the
correct outcome. At the time I signed that statement from
the operation, you know, I wasn't well, and you know,
I'd like to read through that statement again before I'd
say yes, you know, I agree to what sort of thing.
(34:35):
And that was an interesting experience because they let me
sit out the back and read through my statement. And
when I was sitting out the back, someone goes, oh,
whatever expletive, then dropped a vial of evidence on the
floor and they were vacuuming it up, and I thought,
oh my god, really like I was just like you're kidding.
Speaker 10 (35:00):
Special vacuum cleaner had to be sent to the court
to retrieve the material.
Speaker 8 (35:03):
With that, that's evidence.
Speaker 15 (35:06):
They should be looking after evidence better than that.
Speaker 10 (35:09):
As they left the law courts today, the Chamberlains appeared exhausted.
Mister Chamberlain would only say they were looking forward to
spending Christmas with their children.
Speaker 6 (35:19):
After a break for Christmas, the second inquest entered its
final days. The headlines were no longer about dingoes and tourism.
In February nineteen eighty two they read cold blooded murder.
You probably know this, but in case it wasn't obvious.
At this stage there is no jury. It's simply a
(35:41):
courtroom with the Chamberlain's lawyers, Coroner Jerry Galvin, and a
packed public gallery. Galvin had to decide if there was
sufficient evidence to charge the Chamberlains with the crime. He
had to make findings that were the opposite of the
previous coroner, Barrett, and to do that he had to
(36:03):
look past witnesses who contradicted the police timeline. He had
to make sense of forensic evidence from Sydney, London and Adelaide,
and all the while without the missing matinee jacket or
the baby's body despite their innocence, the police, the media,
the public, and then finally the law turned on the Chamberlains.
Speaker 11 (36:28):
Good evening, Lindy and Michael Chamberlain will go on trial
the Alice Springs coroner Jerry Galvin.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Galvin could not overlook the sworn evidence of Joy Kurl
about the fetal Hemoglaty couldn't possibly ignore that, he couldn't
ignore Cameron's evidence, and he was obliged Lindy should be
put on trial for murder and that Michael should be
put on trial's accessory after the fact.
Speaker 6 (36:53):
So here we are a year almost to the day
from when they stood outside Coroner Barrett's court, cleared of
any involvement in their daughter's death, and the Chamberlains walk
to a waiting car, But this time they're on bail,
committed to trial where they will face charges of murder,
and as an accessory to murder, they don't say a word.
(37:19):
If you subscribe, now you're getting alert the moment the
next show drops. I'd like to say thanks to Nicki,
Simon and Stephen who helped create this episode, and a
shout out to Nathan Kai and Wren, and thanks to
you for listening.
This episode is not suitable for children to listen to
or overhear. It may contain course language, adult themes, and
graphic descriptions. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners are advised
that the following program may contain the names of people
who have died. A perfect Storm, The true story of
(00:21):
the Chamberlains.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I think Azaria would have lasted a matter of minutes.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
There were certain people within the Northern Territory Police who
were determined to get her.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
People were saying to me, Oh, you're going there to
see that woman who.
Speaker 5 (00:35):
Killed a child. Bad things happen to good people.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Episode six, The Smoking Gun.
Speaker 6 (00:46):
Hello, my name is John Buck. I started making a
documentary late last year about a miscarriage of justice, one
of the worst in this country's history and one of
the most famous. I'm trying to understand how a mother
of three, a suburban housewife who was not responsible for
her daughter's death, still went to jail. And it may
(01:11):
come down to the egos of a few influential men
and one woman. The Australian forensic scientists and police detectives
that had failed to convince Coron and Barrett of the
Chamberlain's guilt, retested the baby's clothes and then persuaded the
government that they had enough fresh evidence to open a
(01:32):
new investigation. Armed with the warrant, Northern Territory detectives raided
the Chamberlain's home and seized their car, all the while
recording their work and phone calls.
Speaker 7 (01:46):
Well, will only ever get one good crack at them two.
Speaker 8 (01:50):
We want to be well armed before we have again.
You know, we'll out for ending and emitting before we.
Speaker 6 (01:55):
Get After months, I managed to convince the Northern Territory
Police Fire and Emergency Information Archive to give me access
to these recordings. Some have been written about, but none
have been heard publicly before.
Speaker 8 (02:10):
Now, yeah you can Today.
Speaker 6 (02:19):
After a series of failed results on the Chamberlain's ki
the Operation Ocha, Detective Mark Plum calls his brother, Detective
Superintendent Neil Plum in Darwend.
Speaker 9 (02:30):
Hello, there you go.
Speaker 8 (02:31):
Ah, well we might brighten your day for you. Yes,
we have.
Speaker 9 (02:36):
Got people in the area and there is a lot
of blood. You can see the actual ride of waking
blood on the seat.
Speaker 8 (02:43):
I think we've got it without a down.
Speaker 6 (02:46):
Joy Cool, a biologist with the Health Commission in Sydney,
was conducting the tests for the Northern Territory Police. Cool
is the she mentioned in this next.
Speaker 8 (02:57):
Clip, Da perap dear good, Jesus quite happy.
Speaker 7 (03:07):
And what wepeter.
Speaker 9 (03:08):
Happy is either the child was gilded across the area
of the or was there am.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
I certainly didn't know what fetal hemoglobin was before I
started the production. Let me share with you just what
Cool and the police are testing for. Fetal Hemoglobin is
produced by a fetus in the womb to distribute oxygen
to the unborn child because it is unable to breathe.
Before we are born, we stop producing fetal hemoglobin and
(03:41):
start producing adult hemoglobin in order to get ready to
breathe air. Now, after we're born, we slow down making
fetal hemoglobin until we stop at around six months of age.
The average adult has two percent fetal hemoglobin and ninety
eight percent adult hemoglobin in their system, and a baby
(04:04):
of Azaria Chamberlain's age would have had around thirty percent
fetal hymoglobin. Joy Coole's early tests were already reading at
fifty percent, which was wrong. This is another recording made
(04:24):
by the Northern Territory Police in September nineteen eighty one.
Detective Superintendent Neil Plum is talking to Detective Sergeant Graham
Childwood about Lindy Chamberlain.
Speaker 8 (04:37):
Is she seem to have some probably post natal depression.
Speaker 7 (04:44):
As far as.
Speaker 6 (04:45):
Postnatal impresion, we haven't gone.
Speaker 8 (04:46):
Into that with anyone was carrying it on.
Speaker 7 (04:54):
Pleaders.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
I'm going to reach out to the two police officers
you've just heard the old fashioned way. I'm sending them
two typewritten letters. Now. I don't expect Detective Sergeant Childwood
or Detective Superintendent Club to respond, but I wanted to
give them the opportunity to tell their side of the story.
(05:22):
The Northern Territory Police has in recent years, through its
commissioners and archive management, decided that despite the fact that
these recordings are obviously damning the people of the Territory
and more broadly Australia, should get access to them.
Speaker 8 (05:42):
When you know for sure that they're finished with the car,
let me.
Speaker 7 (05:47):
Know straight away.
Speaker 8 (05:49):
And we're going to take possession of the car. We're
going to bring it to the territory.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
I've got to keep it pretty low key at the
moment because everything says to we get them out to
the Black.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Lindy and Michael Chamberlain's yellow Tarana was flown to a
police maintenance compound in Alla Springs yesterday. It came on
a secret flight by an rua Af caribou from Sydney
via Adelaide.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Virtually all the incriminating evidence had been leaked out to
the willing media by the police.
Speaker 6 (06:19):
Malcolm Brown is a retired newspaper journalist of forty years.
He covered the entire Chamberlain case.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Even the contents of the Cameron Report advancing the theory of
murder and of possible decapitation, and of the bloodied handprint
on the jump set had all been leaked out of
the media. Probably the police might have been governed, but
it was all leaked out. The chambers there were very
strictly defended. They were to be protected. They'll be driven
(06:48):
in various cars by supporters to try to fool the
media and lower certainly under a lot of seeds in.
Speaker 10 (06:57):
I understand from territory sources that detectives involved in the
investigation have uncovered further startling new evidence.
Speaker 8 (07:03):
For wowing together.
Speaker 7 (07:05):
There's big mobs of TV crews and reporters in Alice
at the moment running for the big search.
Speaker 8 (07:11):
Twenty kilometers out of Alice. Now that all came from
Bonning here, she'd be a bit of a dickhead, wouldn't she.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
This is the area about sixteen kilometers south of the
Alice where a local woman, Annette Bonning, claims she saw
a car broken down on the side.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Of the road.
Speaker 7 (07:29):
Bulls in the one thing. Note, we've got to do
the whole bloody lot of ourselves now.
Speaker 9 (07:34):
Well the door over the papers down here today she
spent finding about a big team of detective or pleat
searching pic team. Okay, whatever it is.
Speaker 8 (07:45):
Out of cheez, bloody work.
Speaker 11 (07:48):
The police are also looking for a matinee jacket the
baby Azaria was wearing on the lunch she disappeared from
her parents' tent last year.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Police sources say the search is.
Speaker 8 (07:57):
To here's Tom here I am man. But then apparently
the contractor they put the men in when he was
digging the holes for the post more needed medonate jacket.
Speaker 7 (08:10):
Oh you joking a shit?
Speaker 8 (08:13):
What do you do with it? Can you time out
for us? Run my urgent? Oh yeah, uh, surely not.
Speaker 6 (08:31):
I couldn't find any details of this search, but I
do know from police records that it isn't Azariah's missing
matinee jacket.
Speaker 10 (08:39):
It's now more than a month since mister Ebringham announced
the new police investigation. If there is to be a
new inquest will most likely be held here in Alice Springs.
Pressure on mister Bringham to announce the results of the.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Police Paul Evingham had been a solicitor and he had
Alice Springs.
Speaker 7 (08:58):
I'm from Channel seven years.
Speaker 10 (08:59):
I was just wondering if we got the investigation here, I.
Speaker 7 (09:03):
Don't think it would be very profitable for where it
took Well, is there is there an? Is there an
investigation going on?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Just and he had was very keen on development of
the Northern Territory, became Chief Ministry, was advocating the establishment
of a university, very very pro development at all phases
and certainly did not want the Northern Territory's image denigrated
in the hours of the world.
Speaker 7 (09:28):
Things are running right at the moment, Everingham is concerned
a large coverage that is receiving.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
We asked for a comment on the chamber with no comment.
Can you tell us whether there be an announcement this
weekend or early next week? Comment every Ham, Brian Martin
and the other Jim Robertson and Marshall Perrin and all
the other Solicited generals, they had to deal with this
case whence they had this scientific and given to them
(10:01):
which was worthy of investigation, and they had to follow
the system through.
Speaker 12 (10:07):
I would have thought my attitude was pretty clear to
you and to the very many journalists who've been making
life miserable for me and making life miserable for the
Chamberlains over this matter in the course of the past
couple of weeks. I think the behavior of the media
has been rather like that of a bunch of vampires.
Any speculation is entirely the responsibility of the media. I've
(10:31):
said nothing on the substance of the case, and I
propose to say nothing further about it until I in
my position as Attorney General, as a response, as the
man principally responsible for the fair and just administration of
law and order in the Northern Territory, and am in
a position to say something definite or take some definite action.
Speaker 10 (10:52):
As has become their custom. Northern Territory officials won't comment
on those reports from Sydney of a breakthrough in the case,
but it's understood Chief Minister Paul Everingham may call a
news conference for early next week, one of the options
open to him to reopen the inquest into the death
of Azariah Chamberlain.
Speaker 6 (11:10):
I asked former Federal Circuit Court Judge Kenneth Raffoul if
it is unusual for a government to quash a coronet
inquest and order a new one.
Speaker 13 (11:20):
The Northern Territory Police Force decided that they would make
up for the failings that Barrett had found, and so
they redid quite a lot of the forensic evidence. And
when they redid the forensic evidence, they came up with
different conclusions and they managed to persuade the Attorney General
(11:41):
to order a second inquest. The holding of second inquest
is not unusual. It's not unusual, but it is uncommon.
Speaker 6 (11:48):
The Northern Territory government kept all of their moves secret.
Stuart Tipple, the Chamberlain's longtime lawyer, explained to me what
happened next.
Speaker 5 (11:59):
The Northern Territory made a secret application to have the
findings of the first in quest quashed, which they had
to do before another one could be held. So the
Chamblains were not notified about that, and they were not
given any opportunity to appear or make representations.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
Coroner Dennis Barrett was removed from the case after he
insisted that the Chamberlain's be told of the second inquest.
I asked retired Judge Kenneth Raphael if there was anything
sinister in that fact.
Speaker 13 (12:32):
No, I don't think there's anything sinister about it. I
think that the advantages of giving it back to the
same person that heard the case before. But on the
other hand, that person had expressed very strong views and
could be said to have the appearance of fixed ideas
about it, and therefore it would be more in the
(12:53):
interests of justice to appoint someone completely new, who hadn't
got any fixed ideas about it, who was prepared to
hear all the evidence again and come through perhaps an
independent decision that if Barrett had been in charge of
the inquest again, that he was the subject of apprehended
bis apprehended biases only it's not actual bias, but it's
(13:15):
the appearance of bias, the fact that the reasonable bystander
with knowledge of the matters involved, could come to the
conclusion that the person hearing the case might be biased
one way or another, or have fixed views one way
or another. So given the fact that there was some
(13:36):
new evidence to consider. I don't think there's anything sinister, imamnd.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
The police officer attended my office, asked for the chambers
to be there. He served them with a summons to
attend the inquest and gave them return tickets and as
an aside, said to me they won't really be needing
a return ticket.
Speaker 8 (14:03):
Well.
Speaker 11 (14:03):
Everringham announced today he'd applied to the Supreme Court to
have the original inquest quashed. His announcement ends months of
speculation over what action would be taken over new police evidence.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
Investigating we managed to find in our news archive this
interview with Dennis Barrett by seven reporter Nick McCallum on
the day the second inquest was announced.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Do you feel it's put a bit of doubt on
your finding at the inquest?
Speaker 7 (14:29):
Well, not knowing.
Speaker 9 (14:30):
What the nature of the evidence is and not knowing
of its credibility.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
I'm just not.
Speaker 8 (14:40):
In a position.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
A day yet or No, you don't think this has
affected your own credibility.
Speaker 8 (14:47):
Time a lane will tell that.
Speaker 6 (14:51):
Many years would pass by before Dennis Barrett's judgment was
truly appreciated. Almost a year to the day since their
daughter was snatched away from them by Dingo. The Chamberlains
arrived in Alice Springs. Mike, could you say do you
know whether the police have any new evidence at all?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Right to make any comment at all, Mike.
Speaker 6 (15:13):
At the second inquest, the Chamberlains were represented by Philip
Rice QC, Peter Dean, Andrew Kirkham and Stuart Tipple.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
Well I was asked to attend the second in quest
and I went there really in an advisory role.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Well, Stuart Tipple was thrown into this. He was a
Seventh Day Adventist.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
Malcolm Brown was at the trial to report for the
Sydney Morning Herald. Malcolm and I have talked many times
about the case. In fact, one time we were interrupted
by his dog. I asked Malcolm to talk a little
about Stuart Tipple.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
He was trusted, he had done a work as a
young solicitor with the Public Defenders Office. He was dogged
and he was cool headed, and he stayed the distance.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
When I arrived. Andrew Kirkham later said to me he
expected that someone that he describes as the church lawyer
would arrive. He thought of some little fellow with gray
hair and so on, and he was a bit surprised
when I walked in.
Speaker 6 (16:24):
I've also got to know Stuart Tipple this past year,
and yes, he is a surprise at first. He's young
for his age, no longer sporting than the stars that
many people would remember as he walked into court alongside
his clients on the nightly news. Stuart is always positive
(16:44):
and very patient. Can you imagine how many times he's
been asked these questions. Stuart has been recognized in recent
years by his peers for his contributions to the law
and justice, But as he began work with the Chamber,
Stuart probably had no idea how career defining this case
(17:04):
would become.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
At that point, I'd had no contact with Northern Territory Police.
I'd had quite a bit to do with serious crime
squads in New South Wales. I'd worked for a couple
of years of the public solicitors in the indictable section
just doing indictable heavy crime matters murders, rapes, armed robberies,
(17:27):
so it's pretty well aware of the way they operated.
Speaker 6 (17:30):
The second inquest was held by Coroner Jerry Galvin CM,
who was the Chief Stipendery Magistrate of the Northern Territory.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
The magistrate was wearing two hats. He was a coroner
and he was an inquiring magistrate, which at the end
of the or during the proceedings could at some stage
commit people to trial.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I might be a little bit risky saying this, but
I think the Northern Territory Goverment had simply briefed Jerry Galvin,
the coroner, make it and get the chamberins under trial
them and I couldn't swee to that, but I think
that the assumption was that this is just a formality
and get them before trial. They had just a prominent
(18:12):
Queensland barrister. They're a big style of a big man
with a very aggressive style to get the chamberlains before
a court.
Speaker 6 (18:24):
I asked retired Judge Kenneth Rafael about the strategy of
the defense lawyers where clearly the defense.
Speaker 13 (18:32):
Well that you call them the defense, you see, but
you're jumping ahead of yourself because an inquest is and
inquiries I really pointed out before, so there's there's nobody's
been accused.
Speaker 10 (18:43):
A couple were astered to the rear entrance of the building.
Court Room one was closed to the public and reporters
until the chamberlains were seated.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
Coroner Jerry Galvin's inquest started in a very different way
than Dennis Barrett's. The brief of evidence was not shared.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
So what you would normally do, and what has happened
in every other case I've ever been involved in, you
would get a brief of evidence, so you'd know what
the evidence was.
Speaker 13 (19:12):
I could see where he's coming from, where police have
made it quite clear that they believe that his clients
had something to do with the death. Are you going
to try and use the inquest to establish a primer
facy case against the Chamberlains? And in those circumstances, he
says he would have expected a brief of evidence, and
(19:34):
I think, in just general fairness, I think he's right.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
And of course they called Michael Chamberlain's the first witness.
Speaker 10 (19:43):
Was called as a witness, sparking a class between the
Chamberlain's Council.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
And Well, it wasn't just odd, it was hardly prejudicial
because what they wanted to do, as they later explained
to us, is that they wanted to make sure the
Chamberlains weren't going to lie. They didn't want them to
find out what the evidence was against them. They really
wanted them to be able to be questioned about how
(20:10):
they could explain blood in the car and some of
the other scientific evidence. They wanted them to commit themselves
to those without having the chance of making up any stories.
Speaker 6 (20:24):
We need to take a quick break and we'll return
to a perfect storm in just a moment.
Speaker 10 (20:31):
During today's session. A tape record interview between Missus Chamberlain
and a police inspector made the evening after Azaria, but
it was played to the court. In it, Missus Chamblain
described seeing a dingo coming out of their tent.
Speaker 14 (20:43):
And I saw the dingo from about shoulder up, and
he looked as if I thought he'd got a fright
and heard me coming with having trouble getting out ten
flat people they'd had to get out, and I immediately
(21:05):
I didn't realize he was in there, and I was
the cry, he's disturbed the baby he might have savage
to The thought went through my mind because I'd heard
of the bite that they'd been biting around here. And
then I I yelled at him to get out of
the road, and it took fright and ran in front
(21:27):
of our car, which was parked right next to the tent,
but I didn't sort of keep looking at it. I'd
dive straight for the tent to see what had made
the baby cry. And when I got into in the tent,
her blankets for the three that the bunny rug and
the two thick blankets she'd had around her were scattered
from money into the tent to the other. I saw
(21:50):
where it went into the bush, and I realized it
was no good. And as soon as I called out
to my husband, the dingo's got my baby and he
came running.
Speaker 8 (22:11):
Well.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Some people thought that she had a different outfit every day,
and that you know that she was young and attractive
and things like that, but that should never have accounted
against her, and also with her religion. They just found
the way she dressed quite strange on some occasions. I
don't understand why people would think.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
That journalist Kim Tilbrook was at the second inquest and
he was watching the distressed parents.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
And aloofness also upset people as well. But I don't
know what people expected about her. After all, she'd lost
her baby.
Speaker 10 (22:46):
It was a parent from the start. The public at
least regarded Professor Cameron as the star witness, leading to
protest by the Chamberlain's Council that observers might wrongly assume
a trial was underway. Professor Cameron showed slides of Azaria's bloodstained.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
We certainly expected Professor CAMRA's evidence and that really wasn't
any surprise. But the areas of surprise for us was
first of all Professor Chakin, who was a textile expert.
He came along and he gave evidence that he had
examined the damage in the clothing, the jumpsuit, and he
was of the opinion that there was no way that
(23:23):
had been caused by a dingo.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
He also examined three tufts of fiber from the camera bag,
claiming each could have come from Azaria's jumpsuit.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
And he was convinced of that because when he examined
the damaged areas he could extract little cotton loops. The
jumpsuit was made of a cotton nylon material and when
it's cut with a pair of scissors in particular, it
creates these little cotton loops that fall off. And he
(23:51):
said that no one in the world dingo could damage
the jumpsuit. It had to be cut with a bladed instrument,
most likely pair scissors.
Speaker 10 (24:01):
Jim Metcalp of the Northern Tdury Police Force was the
first to take the stand this morning. He described tests
carried out in Sydney the detected blood in the car.
Those tests were carried out by Missus Joey Cool, a
forensic biologist with the New South Wales Health Commission. Blood
traces were found in various areas.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
The first the quist was about whether the dinga did
of the second English was about blood, which was the
key as far as the police and forensic scientists were
concerned to the Chamberlain's guilty of something other than the dinga.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
Joycool gave evidence that she was asked, amongst all of
the items, to examine the chamberlain car, which had been
seized when the police raided the chamberlain home. She told
us how she'd spent four days screening it, rubbing it
all with the blooding paper and applying the presumptive test.
She claimed that throughout the car she was getting positive
(24:57):
reactions which indicated to her that there had been blood
on most of the surfaces within the car. She also
then took a part the front passenger seat and found
what she said were dried flakes of blood. In all
she tested the car and the items and said that
(25:21):
she had with confirmation testing found twenty two positive instances
where it wasn't just human blood.
Speaker 7 (25:30):
But it was blood.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
Which contained fetal hemoglobin, which meant it had to be
most likely from a child under the age.
Speaker 7 (25:40):
Of six months.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
The Chamberlains had already given evidence by this stage, and
one of the areas that they were asked about was
had anyone bled in the car and they had already
given evidence, not knowing what was to come about an
instants where they had about a year before that picked
up an injured accident victim and he had what Lindy
(26:07):
described as a spurd an artery that had sprayed blood.
So they were not surprised that if the car had
been tested that blood was going to be found, and
their explanation had already been given that if blood was
found it was most likely this fellow they identified as
Keith Lenahan. But the one area that we could not
(26:32):
explain was a spray pattern that was found under the
dashboard in front of.
Speaker 8 (26:41):
The passenger seat.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Joy Cool gave evidence that she had tested this spray
and that three spots that she had tested contained fetal hemoglobin,
so that was really the smoking gun. That was something
that we couldn't explain from Keith Lenahan, and it gave
this graphic scenario that the Crown was able to propose that, well,
(27:08):
this is where the baby had been killed. Lindy had
taken her to the car, she'd sat on the seat,
she'd cut her throat or cut her head off, and
in the last act of a dying Azaria, this little
spray had sprayed from Azaria and sprayed the underdash area
(27:29):
while probably she was putting the baby in a camera bag.
Speaker 11 (27:34):
The inquest was also told of fetal or baby's bloodstains
in the Chamberlain's car, said to have been sprayed from
a small artery while the heart was still beating.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
It was absolutely devastating. It was devastating for the Chamblains
because they just could not understand it. It was devastating
for us because we had explanations why there was blood
in the car, but we certainly couldn't explain how an
underdat spray was found and discovered. So, you know, what
(28:04):
were the possibilities The possibility with the Chamberlains were lying,
or that the police had planted it, or that the
testing procedures were just so incompetently carried out.
Speaker 6 (28:20):
David Jones covered the second inquest for seven years.
Speaker 10 (28:23):
I'll turn my other phone off so I should be okay.
Speaker 6 (28:25):
I managed to track down David and I asked him
to return to December nineteen eighty one.
Speaker 10 (28:31):
There were days of high drama and the drama. The
high drama was led really by the evidence that was
being presented to the coroner. You know, whether it was
Professor Cameron's evidence or a dental expert, and all sorts
of people were giving evidence. The most dramatic, I guess
(28:51):
was the day that the forensic evidence was presented about
the fetal blood theory. You had a sense, obviously that
the entire country was following the inquest day by day.
Our way out.
Speaker 11 (29:10):
Well, that report was recorded earlier today by David Jones.
We can now cross to David live in our Springs.
Speaker 10 (29:16):
David was probably the first major national story in quest
of this magnitude that was brought into people's living rooms
on a nightly basis because of the ability to be
able to transmit footage from literally the center of the country,
(29:39):
which up until the development of electronic news gathering had
not been possible. David Jones, reporting live from Alice Springs
for seven National News.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
Most people don't realize that there's this independent witness who's
always said I heard the baby cry at the time
that the Crown said the baby was already dead.
Speaker 6 (30:05):
Stuart Tipple reminds us of the importance of Sally.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
Shaw because if on the Crown scenario, Lindy had killed
the baby when she'd left the barbecue and before she returned,
the baby wouldn't have cried out, and Sally and Michael
would not have heard the baby cry.
Speaker 10 (30:22):
It was the Sturgis who's assisting the coroners, but most
of the morning tendering exhibits, he said, some witnesses who
gave evidence to the previous inquest may be called again.
One such witness is a Tasmanian woman who was camping
near the Chamberlains with her husband an eighteen month old daughter.
Speaker 15 (30:37):
On the note, we both got telegrams to appear at
the second inquest, but all of a sudden they didn't
want Greg. They only wanted me.
Speaker 6 (30:45):
As I'm sure you remember, Sally Shaw was questioned for
more than four hours by Disbelieving Operation Okre detectives a
few months earlier.
Speaker 15 (30:56):
They had a pre interview with me again in the
quarter house there in one of their officers, and it
was all about, oh, you'd be keen to get back home,
and I go, no, no, I've got an open ticket.
It's all, it's all good. I just want to, you know,
get this sorted and you know, what have you.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
So the timing and the hearing of the cry was
very very important, and when Operation Ocre reopened the investigation,
they looked at this time frame and one of the
key things for them was to see if they could
get Sally to extend the time she believed Lindy had
(31:36):
left the barbecue with Aiden and.
Speaker 15 (31:38):
Return once again. It very quickly became clear that they
weren't interested in my evidence at all. It was the
whole time, it was all about the baby's cry, over
and over again, and that it wasn't a baby's cry
and it was a cry from the bush and how
(31:58):
would I know, because I don't live in the territory.
And I said, well, I've been camping out in the territory,
you know, and we'd had plenty of time to adjust
because we've been there, you know, adjust to the night
around you, and you know, and I've got a baby.
I know what a baby sounds like. It was just
over and over again, but it just they just kept
going on and on, and in the end I was
(32:19):
just I just thought, I'll play dumb blonde. I'll just
pretend that I don't know what they're getting at and
see if I can get out of this, you know,
and just get rid of them. Anyway, they left, and
it's just straight after that, I was just so angry
because like, they don't want to know the truth. They
(32:40):
don't believe me, you know, they're not interested in what
actually happened.
Speaker 5 (32:46):
They realized one of the big flaws in their case
was if Lindy committed the murder in the scenario they said,
it was a time of motion impossibility. And Sally has
always been steadfast in the timing what she said and
what she saw.
Speaker 15 (33:09):
Iran Greg and we had a long talk about it,
and I said, look, I'm going to the media. This
is ridiculous, you know, this is not right. And we
talked about it, and the thing we were always conscious
of was we didn't want to become hostile witnesses. We
didn't want to have our evidence discredited, you know, And
so we talked about it and agreed that we would
(33:32):
not go to the media.
Speaker 13 (33:36):
There's council's assisting job in an inquest is to assist
the coroner to come to a conclusion as to the
cause of.
Speaker 8 (33:45):
Death.
Speaker 13 (33:48):
But there's no doubt that they were technical in the
second inquest, and the reason for it was because they
believed they had this evidence, the blood on the car
and all that sort of stuff. It seems to me
they went about it in an adversarial manner, which is
probably not what they were meant to have done. The
proof of the of the error is in what happened
(34:11):
much later.
Speaker 15 (34:13):
I was feeling disillusioned and not as confident about the
correct outcome. At the time I signed that statement from
the operation, you know, I wasn't well, and you know,
I'd like to read through that statement again before I'd
say yes, you know, I agree to what sort of thing.
(34:35):
And that was an interesting experience because they let me
sit out the back and read through my statement. And
when I was sitting out the back, someone goes, oh,
whatever expletive, then dropped a vial of evidence on the
floor and they were vacuuming it up, and I thought,
oh my god, really like I was just like you're kidding.
Speaker 10 (35:00):
Special vacuum cleaner had to be sent to the court
to retrieve the material.
Speaker 8 (35:03):
With that, that's evidence.
Speaker 15 (35:06):
They should be looking after evidence better than that.
Speaker 10 (35:09):
As they left the law courts today, the Chamberlains appeared exhausted.
Mister Chamberlain would only say they were looking forward to
spending Christmas with their children.
Speaker 6 (35:19):
After a break for Christmas, the second inquest entered its
final days. The headlines were no longer about dingoes and tourism.
In February nineteen eighty two they read cold blooded murder.
You probably know this, but in case it wasn't obvious.
At this stage there is no jury. It's simply a
(35:41):
courtroom with the Chamberlain's lawyers, Coroner Jerry Galvin, and a
packed public gallery. Galvin had to decide if there was
sufficient evidence to charge the Chamberlains with the crime. He
had to make findings that were the opposite of the
previous coroner, Barrett, and to do that he had to
(36:03):
look past witnesses who contradicted the police timeline. He had
to make sense of forensic evidence from Sydney, London and Adelaide,
and all the while without the missing matinee jacket or
the baby's body despite their innocence, the police, the media,
the public, and then finally the law turned on the Chamberlains.
Speaker 11 (36:28):
Good evening, Lindy and Michael Chamberlain will go on trial
the Alice Springs coroner Jerry Galvin.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Galvin could not overlook the sworn evidence of Joy Kurl
about the fetal Hemoglaty couldn't possibly ignore that, he couldn't
ignore Cameron's evidence, and he was obliged Lindy should be
put on trial for murder and that Michael should be
put on trial's accessory after the fact.
Speaker 6 (36:53):
So here we are a year almost to the day
from when they stood outside Coroner Barrett's court, cleared of
any involvement in their daughter's death, and the Chamberlains walk
to a waiting car, But this time they're on bail,
committed to trial where they will face charges of murder,
and as an accessory to murder, they don't say a word.
(37:19):
If you subscribe, now you're getting alert the moment the
next show drops. I'd like to say thanks to Nicki,
Simon and Stephen who helped create this episode, and a
shout out to Nathan Kai and Wren, and thanks to
you for listening.
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