March 20, 2025 • 19 mins
Chris & Amy spoke to Keeshia Petit about living with ADHD. How they all discovered they had it (Chris & Amy included) and the distance we've come as a society in recognising the condition and what great tips and help there is out there to be great while living with ADHD.
Keeshia's podcast is available now - search for "Cloud" to hear her 10 part series on living with ADHD.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Amy.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
We have a great friend of the radio station as
our guest in the studio right now, Keisha Pettit is
the producer of the pick up the podcast Life I'm
Cut and has her own podcast as well called Cloud,
which is a ten part mini series about living with ADHD.
Topic right, well, we felt like we could relate to
that a little bit. I'm officially you're officially.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You've got the diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I am currently in the process of being diagnosed. But
we I mean, if you've spent five minutes in a
room with me, you know that I have it. You
can tell I've been told my whole life I have it.
It's just yeah, it's probably coming to a head now
and I desperately need to seek help.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Keisha, welcome to the show. I'm guessing you have it
your official right.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Imagine if I didn't sense, I'm an investigive journalist.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Now, Yeah, mine's ADHD. Yes, Yeah, I was diagnosed.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
I was another late age diagnosed woman, which is something
that I think we're seeing a lot of, particularly on
social media at the moment, which you know, we can
get into that if we want to.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
But I was diagnosed at it.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I think I was about twenty nine, so two and
a half years ago, and I was pretty quickly medicated
after that, so a month later. And yet it has
been a really, really life changing experience for me.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Can I ask what was it that kind of pushed
you to seek that diagnosis?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
You know, when you were twenty nine?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Was this something that happened or were you spiraling or look.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
I think it was a mix of things, you know,
similar to you, I'd kind of I'd been told by
everyone for a long time that, you know, that was
likely something going on, and I just kind of took
it in my stride.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I was like, yeah, it is the way your personality,
right whatever, just.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
My personality until I don't know exactly what it was,
but I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety back in
twenty nineteen, so quite a few years beforehand, and still
to this day, I don't know whether that was misdiagnosis
or if it was maybe just you know that there
were the symptoms of the burnout from ADHD, But at
twenty nine, it was to the point where I was
(01:56):
really starting to feel the long term effects of what
you know, that burnout from having ADHD can be. And
now that I know a lot more about the condition.
It actually makes a lot more sense. So the current
theories about it are basically that we have less dopamine
in certain areas of our brain, so things that have
to do with thought, you know, thought processing and decision
(02:17):
making and motivation.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
That was a big one.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
So knowing that now it makes a lot of sense
why I was feeling the way that I was. And
it was just at this point where I was kind
of living in this daze and this fog, and I
didn't know why I could never quite get to the
point that I wanted to get to, you know, like
I had all these amazing thoughts about doing things, and
I just was really lacking the ability to actually initiate
(02:40):
any of those things. And I think it was impacting,
you know, my relationships a lot. And the main symptom
that I had, which I didn't know was a symptom
of ADHD, was emotional dysregulation.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
So I'd always.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Thought that I was just someone who felt things like
I had big feelings, you.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Know, super like empathetic and hormonal.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Yeah, yeah, and I would feel everything to like one
hundred percent of the wavelength and also to minus one
hundred percent, you know, everything would be a really emotional
experience for me, and I didn't know that that was
one of the main things that people with ADHD struggle with.
I've learned from you know, professionals and experts now that
they're actually coming out saying that the number one thing
people with ADHD struggle with is not actually focus, it's
(03:21):
their emotional regulation.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
And the highs and the lows, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Kind of just linked to the depression and all of
that as well. The way it was explained to me
was that if you have ADHD, it's not a mentally
debilitating thing. Everything's moving really fast in your brain still,
but it's like an intersection with no traffic lights, and
when you take the medication, it's like putting traffic lights.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Into your brain so all the information.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Can flow properly. It actually speeds it up because they're stimulants,
but it directs it correctly.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yes, I've heard about mental energy.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
I've heard an analogy that is really similar to this,
and it's to do with like an orchestra, so having
you know, the conductor at the front. People with ADHD
seem to lack the ability to have that conductor, so
all of the instruments will be playing at all of
the volumes, and there's no one telling you need to
quieten down, now, you need to stop, you need to start,
you need to crescendo, or whatever it is. Having the
(04:14):
medication for me and having I guess, what would be
deemed as a neurotypical brain is the ability to have
that conductor tell different parts down, up, stop, go, you know,
I guess, Pagi. Was it a similar thing for you?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yes, there's a clarity that you can focus on things.
And I mean I love doing sudoku and the crosswords,
which Amie gives me a lot of shit in the newspaper.
But I can sit there and finish a Sudoku puzzle
and a crossword, whereas I would have been distracted before
and trailed off.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Did you also have that kind of feeling of burnout
before you got diagnosed? Was that the impetus I guess
for why you got diagnosed.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Look, I'm really lucky in that I was seeing a
psychologist from other issues, and I mentioned before from alcoholism,
and this was doing breakfast radio on Triple M for
twelve years. And that will make you depressed, I promise.
But the money's all right. But it's a killer, So
(05:12):
I'm lucky that I got to see a psychologist. He said,
I think you may have ADHD, and he referred me
to a psychiatrist. But the psychiatrist was a four month
wait to see a psychiatrist. I still have to see
him regularly to get the meds two hundred and twenty
dollars for a fifteen minute session.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
T I'll get your psychist exactly though it's a joke.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
What about the kids growing up in poor areas, the
parents are struggling to make ends meet, who may have ADHD?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
How are they going to get dying?
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Yeah, there is a huge issue, particularly in New South
Wales at the moment. And by the time, this is
actually a bit of a weird, kind of full circle
moment that when I initially went to my GP to
seek out that's the first step for anyone who might
want to go down this process. Go to your GP
and you need a referral to a psychiatrist. And he
was like, look, I'm going to make this an open
referral because it's really hard to get someone in Sydney
(06:07):
at the moment, and my referral expired before I was
able to get in. They last twelve months, so it
was a particularly bad time. I think the weight times
are still up to like eight months. And it's, like
you said, there's so much privilege in it, and it's
something that I feel really passionate talking about because I
was in a privileged position where I could afford private
care and so when I was able, I think mine
(06:29):
was about a five to eight month wait to get
in initially, and then it's multiple appointments.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
It's not just one.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
You know, they've got to do their they've got to
do the proper checks of whether you are actually falling
into this condition because there's no blood test for it.
It's not like a genetic screening and they go, oh,
you've got it, here's the meds.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
And so yeah, I really.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Think that this is something that is so so problematic
at the moment because if you think about someone who
is struggling with the burnout from ADHD and the fact
that to actually go and get a diagnotic, there's so
many hoops that you need to jump through, and those
are reasonable hoops. You know, the meds are drugs of abuse,
so they need to be checked off. But you think
about it in terms of like if this is a
(07:09):
kid who is struggling for a parent who doesn't necessarily
have thousands of dollars to throw at doctors to kind
of try and alleviate some of the side effects that
they're experiencing. It's really really challenging.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And society needs to address this because you've got kids
in lower socio economic areas struggling at school and they're
not getting diagnosed, they're not getting medication that may help
them achieve their potential, and they're just more likely to
grow up and go into a life of crime or
you know, anything else because they're not achieving their potential.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Act research that backsis that says that undiagnosed ADHD people
or people with it have a higherpensity to take risks,
so they can be really really impulsive, and that only
to like risk taking behavior that can be dangerous. They
also have a hyperpensity for drug taking behaviors because if
you think about it, that cause of ADHD, you know
current theories about dopamine, you can self medicate, you know,
(08:05):
with illegal substances, all with alcohol, and so if you're
kind of looking at the long term effects of not
seeking a diagnosis when you're a kid and it's not
just about medication. You know, there are a lot of
lifestyle things that you can intervene with and different types
of modalities that you can engage with to stop the
side effects of ADHD as it progresses throughout your life.
(08:26):
But it has really serious long term impacts on people.
And that's aside from depression and anxiety. That's just from
the behaviors that can come because of the way that
we're wired.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I've got so many girlfriends who were misdiagnosed with anxiety
and depression because of those highs and lows that you
talk about, and that's something that rings true for me,
Like I have no gray area. I'm either such an
upper or I'm so down. I always talk about how
my husband, lucky Man, has two different wives and it's
just but I've been like that my whole life. Like
(09:00):
you almost always know.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Your period plays a pretty big yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Coupled with my period and just my hormones who do
me dirty every month, it's the head noise as well.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
For me, it's the head noise.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Everything kind of came to a head for me when
I had three children and then tried to take on work.
And remember we spoke about last week Paige and I
sometimes we have so much on our plate and then
we get out of the shower and we just sit
on the bed and we stare at the wall for
forty five minutes.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
And hour has passed and you're like, what the hell
just happened?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I just can't.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
That is the story of my life. That's my entire
personality at the moment.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
So I think this is a really common experience, so
particularly for women, and when you know, you feel as
though you're able to handle it all, yes, until for
a lot of them it's kids. For me, I don't
necessarily know what thing it was, but something happened in
my life. It was likely that my career kind of
took a look off and I was having to just
process more and that's when the burnout really really stuck
(09:58):
its teeth into me. And I think that it's very
common now for women, particularly of like our age YEP,
that they will realize that they've got ADHD because their
kids are diagnosed and it's a genetic component to it,
and a lot of them can be sitting in those
psychiatrist appointments going hang on a second, this sounds like me,
this sounds so true, And there was a part of
me when I've got diagnosed, and I've had to have
(10:20):
a lot of conversations with my mum about this, because
there was a part of me that was a little
bit angry. You know, I have the combined type, so
I did have the classic symptoms of ADHD as well
as the inattentive side. And there was a part where
I was just like, how didn't you notice, Like if
you had have known, how how much easier could my
(10:40):
life have been? Like did I have to struggle through
as much as what I did internally, like mentally struggle.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
In the way that I did.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
I don't think I would have if you had have noticed,
if you know, Like it was in every single one
of my school reports, they all said the exact same thing.
She has so much potential, she jeopardizes other students.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Learning capability, can't apply yourselfna PLAYERLF, You're always interrupting, too talkative,
always off playing sports.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
She's missing a lot of class.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
And I was like it was written on the walls.
And my mom said this thing to me, and I
actually feel really emotional thinking about it because I realized
that in that moment, she was only you know, she
only had the understanding that she had. She can't retrofit
our understandings of ADHD well. She also said to me, Keisha,
I thought that was normal because I'm the same way.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
I thought that was normal.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
And I was like, yes, Mum, you have it too.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
The education wasn't there for them right back then, Like
I remember, even growing up, like when I thought about ADHD,
I thought about the hyperactive usually boy who was jumping
around the room, disrupting the class, throwing furniture and stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
That's that was always the link for me.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And it's only now that you're learning more and more
about this inattentive and more often than not, it's girls
who go. They fly under the radar and they're undiagnosed
because as women, like what we were saying before, like we
are raised to kind of behave and act like ladies
and little girls and kind of not behave in that
(12:09):
you know, crazy crazy monkey behavior type way.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And once you're in your teenage years as well, if
you're hormonal, it's your period.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Well it's yeah, it's.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Just your overariaes going, Yeah, you're so emotional, so sensitive,
that's right. That was just something also really interesting about
this diagnosis process is that I read some research and
it was from quite a while ago. Actually it was
from twenty ten, and they estimated that kids by the
age of ten will hear twenty thousand more criticisms of
their behavior. So if you think about that in terms
(12:38):
of like that amounting over the course of your life,
we are so used to being told that what we're
doing isn't right, and so for a lot of girls,
like you said, the social conditioning of bee polite, be quiet,
stop doing that, you internalize those criticisms and you start
to kind of get in this space where you're like, Okay,
I need to survey, like, am I doing the right thing? Here?
Is this what everybody wants from me? It can get
(13:00):
you into this like real masking state where you're trying
to analyze whether you are appropriate in the situation, and
the mental fog that is created by that is so
so exhausting. Because there was this video that mel Robins
put out a couple weeks ago. She was diagnosed. She's
one of the biggest world's biggest podcasters, and she was
talking to Oprah and she was diagnosed about forty six
(13:22):
and she said, Oprah, this moment for me is so
impactful because I have spent a lot of my life
not feeling present for it. And now I'm present, and
I'm present here with you right now, And I remember
looking at that video and going, that's what's different, That's
what it is. I have spent so much of my
life in this fog and in this kind of days
and like trying to work out what people wanted from
(13:43):
me and whether I was doing the right thing, and
trying to not get people to criticize me and not
feel emotional about it because I was far too sensitive.
And now that I have this understanding of like, oh,
it wasn't necessarily your personality. It might have been a
bit of a symptom of this condition, and yes, like
my personality exists within that. But now that I'm able
(14:03):
to kind of have these different you know, for me
medication and lifestyle changes, the weight of it just feels
a lot lighter.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
And you get to be more present and actually live
in the moment and kind of take it all in.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Yeah, And it's like in that in itself has enriched
every single aspect of my life. I'm better at work,
and better in my relationships, and better in my friendships,
and better in myself as well, like I've given myself
that permission. I really talk about this a lot because
I don't like the social commentary of ADHD kind of
being like, well, it's just my ADHD and you just
have to deal with it, like you know, Yeah, I'll
be late to meetings, and yes I'll interrupt you, and
(14:37):
yes I'll emotionally erupt it you.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
I'm like, no, no, that's.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Not how the world works, Like you need to learn
to be a good person in society. Like also, if
you have some manners, yeah, if you can keep a
job with those types of behaviors, you're in a more
privileged position than I am.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
You imagine that a lot of people around our age
realize that they've got it the cause of their kids.
That's exactly what happened to me with Henry. My seven
year old started Kindie and he's teaching. Pulled us aside
and said, hey, I'm.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Not a doctor.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I can't officially tell you this, but he's got ADHD.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Go and get and checked out.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I picked up the book Scattered Minds by Gable Marte.
Amazing great book if you're if you feel like you
may be affected, check out that book. I got halfway
through the first chapter reading it about my son and went, oh,
it's me and.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Did you look at your life?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
And go, I wasn't sure which one of us he
got it from, but no, I realizing it's my fault.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I've given it because a few pages into the book
there's everything I've got describing it to a teeth.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yeah, and isn't it lovely that he's teacher noticed?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
You know?
Speaker 4 (15:42):
And that's the difference of like our generation to their
generation is that we have such a better understanding of
it now. And I think that's why there's there is
all this talk about everybody getting diagnosed now, and it's like, yeah,
because we're just realizing, yeah, actually just realizing that the
way that our brains have been feeling maybe isn't the
way that they have to feel. It's not about whether
it's right or wrong. It's not about whether you know
(16:04):
it's a good thing or a bad thing. It's kind
of just like, well, how am I going to live
the best life that I can possibly live? And that's
why we wanted to create the podcast because there is
so much chatter and I heard that there was just
so much conversation about like these are the symptoms of ADHD,
and this is how to explain it to someone in
your life.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
You know, these are the things that we struggle with.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
It was all about the struggle, and I was like, Okay,
that's good for me to understand. I can be a
bit lighter on myself. But what next, Like what am
I supposed to do with the information other than just
be like okay, So I'm a bit defective in that way.
I mean that literally deficit in the title of ADHD,
it's attention deficit disorder.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
So I wanted to talk to people who were really
successful and not just successful in a traditional sense. You
know Mark Manson who wrote The Subtle Lot of Not
Giving a Cunt.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
It'll say the last word.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I know, yo.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
He sold twenty million copies of his book and he
is not medicated. He was diagnosed with ADHD as a teenager.
And I wanted to know, like, how do you approach
your work life so that you're able to be successful?
Really funny, he uses sudokus, so he does like a
he'll do something, he'll be doing two things at once.
You know, he'll always have the Sadoku book if he
(17:13):
needs to be paying attention to something that is like
a long form, hour long whatever. He will be doing
emails and he'll switch tasks, and in traditional productivity, everyone's like, no,
that's a terrible idea. You can't do that because.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Then you won't get back into the task that you
need to do.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
For our brains, it can be a really really useful
technique to kind of keep that energy high.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Right. It's so funny you say that.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
When I was I wrote a book a year or
so ago and it was very challenging. But the way
I used to do it, I would write it late
at night and I would have the TV going, and
I would have the TV going and i'd have my
laptop and then i'd switch between the TV my laptop and.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Texting my girlfriends. And my husband would be like, put
your phone away, turn the TV off. And I'm like,
oh no, this this is how I am the most productive.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Yes, it is so interesting because every productive the expert
would be like, that's a terrible idea. You're not going
to get your book written. And so that's what I
wanted to find out. I wanted to find out, how
have you used the way that your brain naturally is wide,
the tendencies that you naturally have How have you used
that to your advantage?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Turned it into your superpower? Yeah, and not in.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Like a toxic positivity way, like not everything needs to
be a positive, but I wanted my life to be better.
It was like, how have you done these things to
make your life easier? And so that was Yeah, that
was essentially what I set out to do, and I
feel like it was the best therapy I could ever
ever ever imagine.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
We needed to listen to that podcast.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Well, I spoke to people who were so much better
at life than what I am and worked out the
ways that they have you know, navigated their way there.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
I can't wait to hear this because it affects so
many people and everyone knows someone absolutely expected has someone
in their family with ADHD.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
So check it out.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
It's called Cloud. It's on iHeart, I'm Guessing and YouTube.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
You can watch it if you.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Want YouTube, Heart wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Check it out.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
It's called Cloud with Keisha Pettitt. Thank you so much,
the three of the We could just go on and on.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
That's the thing.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
It's never a problem when everybody in the room, is
it right, That's exactly Thank you so much for having
me guys, thank you
Amy.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
We have a great friend of the radio station as
our guest in the studio right now, Keisha Pettit is
the producer of the pick up the podcast Life I'm
Cut and has her own podcast as well called Cloud,
which is a ten part mini series about living with ADHD.
Topic right, well, we felt like we could relate to
that a little bit. I'm officially you're officially.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You've got the diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I am currently in the process of being diagnosed. But
we I mean, if you've spent five minutes in a
room with me, you know that I have it. You
can tell I've been told my whole life I have it.
It's just yeah, it's probably coming to a head now
and I desperately need to seek help.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Keisha, welcome to the show. I'm guessing you have it
your official right.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Imagine if I didn't sense, I'm an investigive journalist.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Now, Yeah, mine's ADHD. Yes, Yeah, I was diagnosed.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
I was another late age diagnosed woman, which is something
that I think we're seeing a lot of, particularly on
social media at the moment, which you know, we can
get into that if we want to.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
But I was diagnosed at it.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
I think I was about twenty nine, so two and
a half years ago, and I was pretty quickly medicated
after that, so a month later. And yet it has
been a really, really life changing experience for me.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Can I ask what was it that kind of pushed
you to seek that diagnosis?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
You know, when you were twenty nine?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Was this something that happened or were you spiraling or look.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
I think it was a mix of things, you know,
similar to you, I'd kind of I'd been told by
everyone for a long time that, you know, that was
likely something going on, and I just kind of took
it in my stride.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I was like, yeah, it is the way your personality,
right whatever, just.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
My personality until I don't know exactly what it was,
but I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety back in
twenty nineteen, so quite a few years beforehand, and still
to this day, I don't know whether that was misdiagnosis
or if it was maybe just you know that there
were the symptoms of the burnout from ADHD, But at
twenty nine, it was to the point where I was
(01:56):
really starting to feel the long term effects of what
you know, that burnout from having ADHD can be. And
now that I know a lot more about the condition.
It actually makes a lot more sense. So the current
theories about it are basically that we have less dopamine
in certain areas of our brain, so things that have
to do with thought, you know, thought processing and decision
(02:17):
making and motivation.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
That was a big one.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
So knowing that now it makes a lot of sense
why I was feeling the way that I was. And
it was just at this point where I was kind
of living in this daze and this fog, and I
didn't know why I could never quite get to the
point that I wanted to get to, you know, like
I had all these amazing thoughts about doing things, and
I just was really lacking the ability to actually initiate
(02:40):
any of those things. And I think it was impacting,
you know, my relationships a lot. And the main symptom
that I had, which I didn't know was a symptom
of ADHD, was emotional dysregulation.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
So I'd always.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Thought that I was just someone who felt things like
I had big feelings, you.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Know, super like empathetic and hormonal.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Yeah, yeah, and I would feel everything to like one
hundred percent of the wavelength and also to minus one
hundred percent, you know, everything would be a really emotional
experience for me, and I didn't know that that was
one of the main things that people with ADHD struggle with.
I've learned from you know, professionals and experts now that
they're actually coming out saying that the number one thing
people with ADHD struggle with is not actually focus, it's
(03:21):
their emotional regulation.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
And the highs and the lows, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Kind of just linked to the depression and all of
that as well. The way it was explained to me
was that if you have ADHD, it's not a mentally
debilitating thing. Everything's moving really fast in your brain still,
but it's like an intersection with no traffic lights, and
when you take the medication, it's like putting traffic lights.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Into your brain so all the information.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Can flow properly. It actually speeds it up because they're stimulants,
but it directs it correctly.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yes, I've heard about mental energy.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
I've heard an analogy that is really similar to this,
and it's to do with like an orchestra, so having
you know, the conductor at the front. People with ADHD
seem to lack the ability to have that conductor, so
all of the instruments will be playing at all of
the volumes, and there's no one telling you need to
quieten down, now, you need to stop, you need to start,
you need to crescendo, or whatever it is. Having the
(04:14):
medication for me and having I guess, what would be
deemed as a neurotypical brain is the ability to have
that conductor tell different parts down, up, stop, go, you know,
I guess, Pagi. Was it a similar thing for you?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yes, there's a clarity that you can focus on things.
And I mean I love doing sudoku and the crosswords,
which Amie gives me a lot of shit in the newspaper.
But I can sit there and finish a Sudoku puzzle
and a crossword, whereas I would have been distracted before
and trailed off.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Did you also have that kind of feeling of burnout
before you got diagnosed? Was that the impetus I guess
for why you got diagnosed.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Look, I'm really lucky in that I was seeing a
psychologist from other issues, and I mentioned before from alcoholism,
and this was doing breakfast radio on Triple M for
twelve years. And that will make you depressed, I promise.
But the money's all right. But it's a killer, So
(05:12):
I'm lucky that I got to see a psychologist. He said,
I think you may have ADHD, and he referred me
to a psychiatrist. But the psychiatrist was a four month
wait to see a psychiatrist. I still have to see
him regularly to get the meds two hundred and twenty
dollars for a fifteen minute session.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
T I'll get your psychist exactly though it's a joke.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
What about the kids growing up in poor areas, the
parents are struggling to make ends meet, who may have ADHD?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
How are they going to get dying?
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Yeah, there is a huge issue, particularly in New South
Wales at the moment. And by the time, this is
actually a bit of a weird, kind of full circle
moment that when I initially went to my GP to
seek out that's the first step for anyone who might
want to go down this process. Go to your GP
and you need a referral to a psychiatrist. And he
was like, look, I'm going to make this an open
referral because it's really hard to get someone in Sydney
(06:07):
at the moment, and my referral expired before I was
able to get in. They last twelve months, so it
was a particularly bad time. I think the weight times
are still up to like eight months. And it's, like
you said, there's so much privilege in it, and it's
something that I feel really passionate talking about because I
was in a privileged position where I could afford private
care and so when I was able, I think mine
(06:29):
was about a five to eight month wait to get
in initially, and then it's multiple appointments.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
It's not just one.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
You know, they've got to do their they've got to
do the proper checks of whether you are actually falling
into this condition because there's no blood test for it.
It's not like a genetic screening and they go, oh,
you've got it, here's the meds.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
And so yeah, I really.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Think that this is something that is so so problematic
at the moment because if you think about someone who
is struggling with the burnout from ADHD and the fact
that to actually go and get a diagnotic, there's so
many hoops that you need to jump through, and those
are reasonable hoops. You know, the meds are drugs of abuse,
so they need to be checked off. But you think
about it in terms of like if this is a
(07:09):
kid who is struggling for a parent who doesn't necessarily
have thousands of dollars to throw at doctors to kind
of try and alleviate some of the side effects that
they're experiencing. It's really really challenging.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
And society needs to address this because you've got kids
in lower socio economic areas struggling at school and they're
not getting diagnosed, they're not getting medication that may help
them achieve their potential, and they're just more likely to
grow up and go into a life of crime or
you know, anything else because they're not achieving their potential.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Act research that backsis that says that undiagnosed ADHD people
or people with it have a higherpensity to take risks,
so they can be really really impulsive, and that only
to like risk taking behavior that can be dangerous. They
also have a hyperpensity for drug taking behaviors because if
you think about it, that cause of ADHD, you know
current theories about dopamine, you can self medicate, you know,
(08:05):
with illegal substances, all with alcohol, and so if you're
kind of looking at the long term effects of not
seeking a diagnosis when you're a kid and it's not
just about medication. You know, there are a lot of
lifestyle things that you can intervene with and different types
of modalities that you can engage with to stop the
side effects of ADHD as it progresses throughout your life.
(08:26):
But it has really serious long term impacts on people.
And that's aside from depression and anxiety. That's just from
the behaviors that can come because of the way that
we're wired.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I've got so many girlfriends who were misdiagnosed with anxiety
and depression because of those highs and lows that you
talk about, and that's something that rings true for me,
Like I have no gray area. I'm either such an
upper or I'm so down. I always talk about how
my husband, lucky Man, has two different wives and it's
just but I've been like that my whole life. Like
(09:00):
you almost always know.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Your period plays a pretty big yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Coupled with my period and just my hormones who do
me dirty every month, it's the head noise as well.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
For me, it's the head noise.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Everything kind of came to a head for me when
I had three children and then tried to take on work.
And remember we spoke about last week Paige and I
sometimes we have so much on our plate and then
we get out of the shower and we just sit
on the bed and we stare at the wall for
forty five minutes.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
And hour has passed and you're like, what the hell
just happened?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I just can't.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
That is the story of my life. That's my entire
personality at the moment.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
So I think this is a really common experience, so
particularly for women, and when you know, you feel as
though you're able to handle it all, yes, until for
a lot of them it's kids. For me, I don't
necessarily know what thing it was, but something happened in
my life. It was likely that my career kind of
took a look off and I was having to just
process more and that's when the burnout really really stuck
(09:58):
its teeth into me. And I think that it's very
common now for women, particularly of like our age YEP,
that they will realize that they've got ADHD because their
kids are diagnosed and it's a genetic component to it,
and a lot of them can be sitting in those
psychiatrist appointments going hang on a second, this sounds like me,
this sounds so true, And there was a part of
me when I've got diagnosed, and I've had to have
(10:20):
a lot of conversations with my mum about this, because
there was a part of me that was a little
bit angry. You know, I have the combined type, so
I did have the classic symptoms of ADHD as well
as the inattentive side. And there was a part where
I was just like, how didn't you notice, Like if
you had have known, how how much easier could my
(10:40):
life have been? Like did I have to struggle through
as much as what I did internally, like mentally struggle.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
In the way that I did.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
I don't think I would have if you had have noticed,
if you know, Like it was in every single one
of my school reports, they all said the exact same thing.
She has so much potential, she jeopardizes other students.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Learning capability, can't apply yourselfna PLAYERLF, You're always interrupting, too talkative,
always off playing sports.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
She's missing a lot of class.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
And I was like it was written on the walls.
And my mom said this thing to me, and I
actually feel really emotional thinking about it because I realized
that in that moment, she was only you know, she
only had the understanding that she had. She can't retrofit
our understandings of ADHD well. She also said to me, Keisha,
I thought that was normal because I'm the same way.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
I thought that was normal.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
And I was like, yes, Mum, you have it too.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
The education wasn't there for them right back then, Like
I remember, even growing up, like when I thought about ADHD,
I thought about the hyperactive usually boy who was jumping
around the room, disrupting the class, throwing furniture and stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
That's that was always the link for me.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And it's only now that you're learning more and more
about this inattentive and more often than not, it's girls
who go. They fly under the radar and they're undiagnosed
because as women, like what we were saying before, like we
are raised to kind of behave and act like ladies
and little girls and kind of not behave in that
(12:09):
you know, crazy crazy monkey behavior type way.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And once you're in your teenage years as well, if
you're hormonal, it's your period.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Well it's yeah, it's.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Just your overariaes going, Yeah, you're so emotional, so sensitive,
that's right. That was just something also really interesting about
this diagnosis process is that I read some research and
it was from quite a while ago. Actually it was
from twenty ten, and they estimated that kids by the
age of ten will hear twenty thousand more criticisms of
their behavior. So if you think about that in terms
(12:38):
of like that amounting over the course of your life,
we are so used to being told that what we're
doing isn't right, and so for a lot of girls,
like you said, the social conditioning of bee polite, be quiet,
stop doing that, you internalize those criticisms and you start
to kind of get in this space where you're like, Okay,
I need to survey, like, am I doing the right thing? Here?
Is this what everybody wants from me? It can get
(13:00):
you into this like real masking state where you're trying
to analyze whether you are appropriate in the situation, and
the mental fog that is created by that is so
so exhausting. Because there was this video that mel Robins
put out a couple weeks ago. She was diagnosed. She's
one of the biggest world's biggest podcasters, and she was
talking to Oprah and she was diagnosed about forty six
(13:22):
and she said, Oprah, this moment for me is so
impactful because I have spent a lot of my life
not feeling present for it. And now I'm present, and
I'm present here with you right now, And I remember
looking at that video and going, that's what's different, That's
what it is. I have spent so much of my
life in this fog and in this kind of days
and like trying to work out what people wanted from
(13:43):
me and whether I was doing the right thing, and
trying to not get people to criticize me and not
feel emotional about it because I was far too sensitive.
And now that I have this understanding of like, oh,
it wasn't necessarily your personality. It might have been a
bit of a symptom of this condition, and yes, like
my personality exists within that. But now that I'm able
(14:03):
to kind of have these different you know, for me
medication and lifestyle changes, the weight of it just feels
a lot lighter.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
And you get to be more present and actually live
in the moment and kind of take it all in.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Yeah, And it's like in that in itself has enriched
every single aspect of my life. I'm better at work,
and better in my relationships, and better in my friendships,
and better in myself as well, like I've given myself
that permission. I really talk about this a lot because
I don't like the social commentary of ADHD kind of
being like, well, it's just my ADHD and you just
have to deal with it, like you know, Yeah, I'll
be late to meetings, and yes I'll interrupt you, and
(14:37):
yes I'll emotionally erupt it you.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
I'm like, no, no, that's.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Not how the world works, Like you need to learn
to be a good person in society. Like also, if
you have some manners, yeah, if you can keep a
job with those types of behaviors, you're in a more
privileged position than I am.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
You imagine that a lot of people around our age
realize that they've got it the cause of their kids.
That's exactly what happened to me with Henry. My seven
year old started Kindie and he's teaching. Pulled us aside
and said, hey, I'm.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Not a doctor.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I can't officially tell you this, but he's got ADHD.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Go and get and checked out.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I picked up the book Scattered Minds by Gable Marte.
Amazing great book if you're if you feel like you
may be affected, check out that book. I got halfway
through the first chapter reading it about my son and went, oh,
it's me and.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Did you look at your life?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
And go, I wasn't sure which one of us he
got it from, but no, I realizing it's my fault.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I've given it because a few pages into the book
there's everything I've got describing it to a teeth.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yeah, and isn't it lovely that he's teacher noticed?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
You know?
Speaker 4 (15:42):
And that's the difference of like our generation to their
generation is that we have such a better understanding of
it now. And I think that's why there's there is
all this talk about everybody getting diagnosed now, and it's like, yeah,
because we're just realizing, yeah, actually just realizing that the
way that our brains have been feeling maybe isn't the
way that they have to feel. It's not about whether
it's right or wrong. It's not about whether you know
(16:04):
it's a good thing or a bad thing. It's kind
of just like, well, how am I going to live
the best life that I can possibly live? And that's
why we wanted to create the podcast because there is
so much chatter and I heard that there was just
so much conversation about like these are the symptoms of ADHD,
and this is how to explain it to someone in
your life.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
You know, these are the things that we struggle with.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
It was all about the struggle, and I was like, Okay,
that's good for me to understand. I can be a
bit lighter on myself. But what next, Like what am
I supposed to do with the information other than just
be like okay, So I'm a bit defective in that way.
I mean that literally deficit in the title of ADHD,
it's attention deficit disorder.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
So I wanted to talk to people who were really
successful and not just successful in a traditional sense. You
know Mark Manson who wrote The Subtle Lot of Not
Giving a Cunt.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
It'll say the last word.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I know, yo.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
He sold twenty million copies of his book and he
is not medicated. He was diagnosed with ADHD as a teenager.
And I wanted to know, like, how do you approach
your work life so that you're able to be successful?
Really funny, he uses sudokus, so he does like a
he'll do something, he'll be doing two things at once.
You know, he'll always have the Sadoku book if he
(17:13):
needs to be paying attention to something that is like
a long form, hour long whatever. He will be doing
emails and he'll switch tasks, and in traditional productivity, everyone's like, no,
that's a terrible idea. You can't do that because.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Then you won't get back into the task that you
need to do.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
For our brains, it can be a really really useful
technique to kind of keep that energy high.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Right. It's so funny you say that.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
When I was I wrote a book a year or
so ago and it was very challenging. But the way
I used to do it, I would write it late
at night and I would have the TV going, and
I would have the TV going and i'd have my
laptop and then i'd switch between the TV my laptop and.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Texting my girlfriends. And my husband would be like, put
your phone away, turn the TV off. And I'm like,
oh no, this this is how I am the most productive.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Yes, it is so interesting because every productive the expert
would be like, that's a terrible idea. You're not going
to get your book written. And so that's what I
wanted to find out. I wanted to find out, how
have you used the way that your brain naturally is wide,
the tendencies that you naturally have How have you used
that to your advantage?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Turned it into your superpower? Yeah, and not in.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Like a toxic positivity way, like not everything needs to
be a positive, but I wanted my life to be better.
It was like, how have you done these things to
make your life easier? And so that was Yeah, that
was essentially what I set out to do, and I
feel like it was the best therapy I could ever
ever ever imagine.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
We needed to listen to that podcast.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Well, I spoke to people who were so much better
at life than what I am and worked out the
ways that they have you know, navigated their way there.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
I can't wait to hear this because it affects so
many people and everyone knows someone absolutely expected has someone
in their family with ADHD.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
So check it out.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
It's called Cloud. It's on iHeart, I'm Guessing and YouTube.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
You can watch it if you.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Want YouTube, Heart wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Check it out.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
It's called Cloud with Keisha Pettitt. Thank you so much,
the three of the We could just go on and on.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
That's the thing.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
It's never a problem when everybody in the room, is
it right, That's exactly Thank you so much for having
me guys, thank you
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