Dr Rachel Toles-Forensic Psychologist: True Crime For Women Is Equatable To Porn For Men.

Dr. Rachel Toles is a forensic psychologist and she is coming to Perth for a special show at the Astor Theatre in May called The Psychology of Serial Killers. She joined Clairsy & Lisa to talk about what audiences can expect from the show plus they discussed out obsession with serial killers and has she ever been asked anything disturbing during the show. He answer may shock you!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
May twenty nine, an event at the Asta Theater which
certainly has tweaked my interest, and I'm not the only one.
It's called the Psychology of Serial Killers. Tickets for the
show are available through ticketech. It is hosted by a
renowned forensic psychologist whose name is doctor Rachel Tolds, and
she joins us now, Hello, Rachel.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hello, Hi, thank you for having me. This is such
a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Oh, it is a pleasure to have you, not least
because inquiring minds want to know what is it about me?
And so many like me that finds this. You know,
we can't deny it entertainment in serial killer stories.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
You know, I always say, first of all, true crime
for women at this point is equitable to pornography for men.
It really is. It's our version, you know men. Men
love to talk about sex. Women love to talk about murder.
And that's because women spend Men spend most of their
lives scanning for sexual quests. Us women spend most of
our lives scanning to avoid getting murdered. It's just a fact.

(01:04):
You know. A man's biggest fear when he goes on
his first online date is that she's not going to
look like her pictures. A woman's biggest fear she's gonna
get killed. So these are just things to you know,
it's it's I think it's partly that it's like true
crime is like the DIY survival guide for women. We're like, Okay,
if we can figure out just as many scenarios that
could happen to us, will be that much safer. And
I think that that is part of it. But also

(01:26):
I think that there's something very real about true crime
in a way that and I think men are typically
lean more towards fantasy. Like when I talk to men
in my family, I'll say, why don't you like true crime?
And they'll say, it's too close, it's too close. We
prefer like the fun stuff. We like the uplifting stuff. Yeah,
whereas women, I know this is.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
I want to know is I've never but that is
a really interesting, you know take. I don't think men
fully appreciate the concept of walking across a car park
with their car key sticking out between their fingers, and
women that's just what we do.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
It's what was from the moment we come out of
the wound, when we can feel the male gaze, you know,
it's really sad, but it's very true. And little girls,
even at a very young agel like already consents like ooh,
and kids in general, because you learn about that death
is a thing at a very early age. And when
you're around five years old, you're like, wait a minute,
so you're gonna die, yeah, but not for a really
long time. Wait a minute, so I'm gonna die, yeah,

(02:24):
but not for a really long time. And you're sitting
there as a child, having a process. So you knew this.
You had me, which technically makes you my killer, because
you you know, it's like this weird thing. So all
kids know that, like death could happen, and depending on
how sensitive you are as a kid, you might become
fixated on it, which is you know what happens to
some of us who go into the field.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating. I was walking down through some
bushland then south of the river the other day and
I said to Laurie, there's no way that I would
let you walk, and she wouldn't do it anyhore, walk
through this bushland next to this like with that maybe
at any stage to die, And that's in itself, isn't
it right?

Speaker 2 (03:01):
That's right? That's right, and so it is just a
it's just a fact. And so but it's at least
I think it's nice that people are men are starting
to understand because you really don't know what it is
like to have to always be looking over your shoulders
at both times. The only people in the US certainly
who actually have a similar sense of paranoia because it

(03:22):
are black males. And what we have certain tests that, like,
we have a very famous personality test that we have
to actually score black men five points lower on the
paranoia scale because of just the history of this country
and the way cops still treat black men. And so
it's just but it really goes to show that it's
it's a real feeling. And so I always you know, say, well,

(03:45):
black men are the closest to understanding women when it
comes to having to like look around, like am I
going to be killed because of the way I look?

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Now, this show is about serial killers, Well, I think
it's safe to say it is a lot harder to
be serial killer in this day and age, with the
you know, the technology.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
That police have.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
So do you think there are less people less serial
killers out there just because they get caught early? They
are sort of there a one off murderer, whereas they
could have been a serial killer.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, you know, I think, well, the golden era of
serial killing was seventies. The peak was nineteen eighty one,
and after that we saw a pretty significant drop. DNA
stuff started coming out in the later eighties nineteen eighties,
and so that's when certain serial killers just stopped because they,
like I think Dennis Raider BTK was one who you know,

(04:42):
suddenly became aware, like a lot of them were like, oh,
you know, this is so that's part of it. Now.
I think that there are a lot of things that
happened that that would explain the big decrease. I think
the Internet is a big part as well, because you know,
take somebody like Jeffrey Dahmer. This is a guy who
was isolated in Bath Ohio. He was dealing with the

(05:04):
fact that he was gay in the nineteen seventies in
Bath Ohio, which is not the friendliest place at that
you know time to be gay. If he had the
Internet and his fingertips and he had, you know, fetishes
of just being with the man who is basically a
sub in an unconscious position, he would have been able
to find a group of people that would have been
able to, you know, allow him to indulge in his fantasy,

(05:27):
and he felt so alone. So arguably, if Jeffrey Dahmer
was alive today, he probably wouldn't be a serial killer.
I know that's wild to say, but I really because
he had a lot of different things. I get really
deep into Jeffrey Dahmer during the show. So there's that element,
But there are other elements too. It is harder to
to your question. It's harder because obviously surveillance we you know,

(05:48):
DNA testing and you know cell phone data and so,
but there are I mean Israel Keys is I don't
know if you've heard of Israel Keys, but he's one
that we call the most meticulous because he really was
smart about it. And I kind of I always have
a difficult time explaining, uh because I don't want to
give anyone, you know, yips to me. You know, I don't.

(06:11):
That's where it gets tricky. But it's like, yeah, Israel Keys,
if you can get away, he has, he has. He
had the right Unfortunately, he had the right system that
if you were really wanting to get away with it,
he had, you know, a lot of patience.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
They're not usually stupid.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
They unfortunately, they're usually quite smarted. Yeah, have you ever
because people get the opportunity to ask questions at your
shows if you've been disturbed by something that someone has
a yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, okay, Well, I just want to comment on the
fact that a lot of people believe that serial killers
are these evil geniuses. But in actuality, the average serial
killer IQ is around ninety ninety one, you know, so
it's not that high. So we've got the ones like
Ted Bundy, like Jeffrey dahmerd those are high IQs. But yeah,
for the most part, they're they're not. They just a
lot of them go after sex workers and the sex

(07:00):
workers turns less dead, So people don't really care. They
don't tend to make the news. Women of color, things
like that, they just unfortunately don't make the news. But yeah,
I do get a lot of interesting questions sometimes, Like
I got one question once where someone was like, why
haven't I gotten caught yet? Oh, because they they send

(07:21):
them in. They don't, you don't they don't have a
microphone where they asked actually, like they said, they can
send them in anonymously, and so things like that, and uh,
and and you know, so sometimes like are you kind
of are you joking or you know and you don't
know and so and so. One of the questions is
what are the chances that a serial killer might be
in the audience tonight, And I point out the fact
that if there was a serial killer in the area,

(07:43):
I'd say that if they were to go to a show,
this would probably be the one to go to, because
I believe it or not, serial killers themselves have no
idea why they kill. They just know they had the urge.
But they're just as curious as we are about why
they do it.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Right, Well, doctor Tooles, I could definitely talk to you. Yeah,
you have to wait until May twenty nine, but you
are at the ASTA on May twenty nine, the Psychology
of serial Killers. Tickets are available through ticke Tech. Thank
you so much for joining us this morning.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Thanks thank you so much for having me and I
look forward to seeing you all in Perth.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
Thank you