June 13, 2022 • 41 mins
This week Matika and Courtney are joined by Neil Johnson aka Louis Libran to talk about the differences in Gay vs Lesbian dating as well as how labels can help and hinder out community.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is recorded on Stolen Land. We acknowledge and
pay our.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Respects to our elders, past, present, and for future generations.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Hi. I'm Atika and I'm Courtney, and we're two Queer
First Nations women passionate about representation for our community. We
created this podcast to share our stories. We want you
to join us on the journey.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
You're listening to Coming Out Latch.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
As always is a fantastic episode, but in particular today
because we have a fantastic musical guest sing No, I'm
just kidding. Those of you who have listened to the
podcast before will be familiar with Neil Johnson aka Louis
Lee Brandon, performer extraordinaire and also my cousin. And we
(00:51):
brought you back for another episode.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Yeah, thank you for having me. It's good to be back.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yeah always. Well, you're here because there's a particular topic
that I want to chat with you. But you're also
here because you've been kind enough to let us record
in your personal studio.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Now at my personal studio, at my work studio. I'm
very grateful to have the space to record in here
and make you guys sound amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, I'm also here.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You just say something. Yeah. So if you're wondering why
last week's episode was the bomb dot Com, it's because
we recorded it here in the studio.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Hell yeah, this ship was crisp.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah yeah. Anyway, so today's episode topic, I guess, kind
of comes from an experience that we had Neil. So
we were out at the bit of Tit and Redfern
and actually, yeah that was really good, and you had
spotted someone in the crowd that you had had sexual intercourse.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
We're right to it. It's like.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
You've seen someone that eats slept with and you were like,
oh my god, my take. I've suffer with that person
before and I've blocked them on everything, and that now
I have to pretend that I don't see them. And
I was like what And I was really confused. It
was like hilarious of course at the time. And then
they walked back. It was a really like awkward hello
as they walked past. And then when we got home,
I was like, why do And this is going to
(02:26):
be a big old stereotype, So stay with me for
a sec. Why do people in the gate male community
like hate running into people that they've slept with or
like they'll talk to someone and then they have to
block them and everything, and it's like it for me,
as an outsider, it seems almost shameful to like run
(02:47):
into someone that you've slept with before, because that's I'm sure,
as you can attest to Courtney, so different to how
things work in the lesbian community.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, so I.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Was like, what's the deal? And then I was like,
what stop talking? This is a podcast episode.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
What a great podcast episode? Idea don't speak for the
booth essentially.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Saved it for this episode. So that was my what
are your thoughts of like those? Have you noticed that
in like gay friends.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Or Yeah, what's the what's the classic joke? What do
you call a group of rids? What do they call lesbians?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Exits?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah, didn't when that's obviously not it's seemingly not the
case within the gamel community. Can you enlighten us lesbians please?
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Yeah? Sure, Well my experience, I think it's it's pretty
What am I trying to say?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
It's like, is it the gay community.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Or is it just you? It could be just me,
but yeah, as you said, it's a massive stereotype and
I think that I get this vibe from other gay
men as well. And that they will block you for
any reason. And I've kind of fallen into those stereotypes
(04:10):
and like and.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
The way everyone else does it. So you've just picked
it up.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like I haven't. Like one
of my best friends, he and his like long term
boyfriend broke up, Like they broke up, have not talked
ever since.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Yeah, that's totally normal.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Not I mean, that's a breakup. That's different.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh okay, Like yeah, but.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Would you block them completely from everything in entire existence? Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat,
like we cover all grounds, phone numbers.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
We don't want to be I haven't got any of
my exes' I'm relatively like, I'm okay with one of them.
The other one I'm fine with, but I'm pretty sure
she has me blocked on everything, right, And those are
all the exes that.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I think. I've like kind of have a few different experiences.
And it's also the people that you don't have a
relationship with.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It's like there's a lot of those.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
So there's like a lot of people that I've this
sounds bad, there's a lot of people that I've There's
a lot of people, but like I see them in
community or they're in my friendship groups or you know,
whatever it is, and then that's like, that's fine, and
it's quite relatively normal to like run into people that
you've slept with or have them just be like in
(05:28):
social circles around you. Within the lesbian community. Yeah, and
it seems to be the total opposite.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
A community sounds nice, it's not mine experience. Yeah, I
feel like there's some level of shame in that. When
we talk to each other, it's like very sexual. There's
no getting to know one another. It's literally, hey, how
(05:54):
are you. You're lucky to get hey, how are you?
Usually it's just a dig pic or whatever pick it's
usually nudity is like the first point of contact or
like a hey, looking for fun exo, like so gossip
Girl it's yeah, it's so sexual. I think even on
(06:18):
Tinder it doesn't matter like what app you go on
grinding Tinder, maybe Hinde is a.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Bit better, whereas maybe, like I from our experiences in
online dating, it's like, oh my god, I accidentally just
fell in love with this person, and that's not like
every there's certainly an emotional connection and there's like talking
about things other than sex. Even if it is people
that you're just sleeping with. In my experience, yeah, it's like, oh,
(06:44):
I'm just a nice person.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, I've just wanted me excruciatingly eating excruciatingly like passionate
emotional for someone. Yeah. Yeah, is that is?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Does that happen to like the way the sexes move
through society in general, Like it's more expected that women
talk about their feelings and connect with people, and we're
considered more social creatures than men, whereas men are visual creatures,
sexual physical creatures.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Yeah. Yeah, it could be that it just comes down
to maybe our anatomy or genetics. I'm sure somewhere it's
a it's a part of it.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
But but I also think, like, oh my god, I
just had like a really good point.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Just I'm just gonna say, like to acknowledge our NB
friends as well. It's really interesting people that I meet
that are non binary, like how they interpret these kinds
of situations or people that are penned because like they're
different with men or women or non binary folk. And
then we've also got the nuances of the queer or
(07:55):
lesbian community. I suppose if you've got like, sorry, passionate
making noise, you've got like mask.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Uh, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
People that I didnvis mask, and sometimes there's like a
bit of a trope where they have no masks, they
don't like to talk about their feelings and.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
They scorpio energy.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, and then we get into horoscope.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Yeah, I mean, of course, I mean, and we can
only come at this conversation from a lesbian versus gay
and of course there are going to be a bunch
of other nuances. So if you're someone from any of
those communities that Courtney just mentioned, and like you'd like
to weigh in your thoughts on like your experience in
dating and whether there is you know, the level of
(08:42):
secrecy or shame that's experience in the gay community versus
they're like intense, you're going to see this person all
the time it's in the lesbian community. Let us know,
maybe even send like a like a voice message or
something and we can share that on like instrument stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
And nothing's back and white.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, sorry no, but like you know, everything life is great,
so there's nuances to everything. But yeah, this is a
really interesting topic because it's so vastly stereotypically different.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, totally. I thought that maybe it might link into
the way homosexuality or lesbianism has been received by the
wider society. So for example, lesbians are like, oh, really
like and they're fantasized, and it's more people find it
(09:32):
more understandable that we would be curious and we're just
like curious little creatures, whereas the way society has received
male homosexuality is dirty, disgusting, and that's led into people
within the gay community continuing to have that weight on
(09:56):
their shoulders of this level of shame, even if you
are in a place where you are really comfortable with yourself.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Yeah, I think that's that's a really good point to make.
I think on on these dating apps, there's a lot
of men who don't show their face, who are discreete
or who are won't meet up with you has to
be anonymous, and like they're not into other men who
(10:23):
are not anonymous, so weird, But that makes that's a
that's a good point, I think.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I think.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
I just I think you crack the card.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
We start our own like Scooby Gang. Yeah, that's I
think that's that's probably where it comes from, right, or
a part of it, yeah, yeah, or even like we
were talking before we started recording, how it's my understanding
that within the gay community there's all of these like
(10:53):
you know, someone sleep with you if you want to
practice safe sex, or like the whole on grinder like
no snow fems.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Yeah, there's all of this criteria that I think we
need to meet, and yeah, it's it's I think it's
damaging to the community. I mean there's like labels, help
like anyone put people into boxes so that we know
what's to look for, what we like to search for.
But yeah, when it comes to meeting someone's criteria or
(11:26):
being blocked just because you're a certain ethnicity or you
look like some type of way or don't fit into
someone else's criteria, it's as easy as a block. And
I think like the cycle continues because.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
It's just like I think that's really unhealthy and how
must that impact people's sense of self? Like if you're
when people talk about like straight skinny, gay.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Fat, you heard that before gay skinny?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
What straight skinny?
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Straight skinny?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Like, oh, you're skinny. But in the gay community, and
I'm using quotations, yeah, they're considered chubby or whatever. It is,
like it sometimes seems like a really judgmental community.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Yeah, well all of a lot of those faceless dating apps.
Just if they're faceless, it's often that they're ripped or
like shredded, And it's just some standard that the gay
community has upheld, and I think everyone kind of falls
into that, Like I have to consciously think why am
(12:33):
I going to the gym? Like am I going to
fit or be more likable to these men who really
I shouldn't be like appealing or trying to appeal to.
So yeah, definitely does take a toll on oneself. I
(12:54):
think it's good to think about that stuff in that
like am I going to the gym to get ripped?
Or is it for my health? Or am I happy
to look like this? Or am I happy that I'm
shredded because the world is telling me that that's what
you need to be happy or to be accepted in
the gay community.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Yeah. Well, do you think that there's like a similar
experience that lesbians have called me? I'm not sure in
terms of those judgmental elements.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, Oh, there's definitely things. I think.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
There's this I feel like I've been privy to biphobia,
and there's also you know, the what do you call it?
They call it the platinum or the gold style as
oh yeah, and that means like you've never been with
a man before.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
And somehow they're like a better lesbian for that.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, Like how was that added value? That's why I
find that really strange.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
But I think there's a lot of I think both
both communities, right, Like a lot of queer community have
a lot of that internalized hopophobia in ourselves and that
comes out in different and depending on what kind of
group you're in. And yeah, like I've got friends that
are yeah, like identify as mask and you know, have
almost have gone so far into that that they've developed
(14:13):
toxic masculinity.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
You gotta call them out. You've gotta hold your friends accountable.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Good.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
But like, I think that trope in our community, I
suppose it is probably one of the most toxic.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Totally, and I think it's unhelpful. Yeah, Like it's it's
not allowing room for the breadth of experience that quitness is.
Like there are a lot of people who coming out
and realizing who they were was not something that was
safe for them to do, and so they had to
live a life where they you know, were trying to
find happiness in a life they didn't really want, whether
(14:45):
it be married, children, or just you know, pretending to
be straight for however long that is. Yeah, So I agree,
that's probably like one of the more negative aspects of
the lesbian community. The other things I can sort of
think of are like, I know there'll be some women
who and this is in terms of hookups, because you
(15:06):
know that's what you're sharing. Deal. Some women who like
are real sticklers about like body hair, and they think
that like women having more hair than usual, whether that
be their legs, the pubic arrier, growing their under arms
or whatever, is gross and like not feminine. And I
think that that is a really gross part of like
(15:28):
women who were meant to love women. And I even
found part of that reflected in myself in my dating experience.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Like if I.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Started seeing someone and they had more hair on their
legs than I was traditionally sort of used to, I
caught myself and I was like, why am I shocked
by this? Why am I like, oh my god, she
has hairy legs? And and I went away from that,
and I was like, why was I a little bit
thrown by the fact that this person had really hairy legs?
(16:00):
Or like when I was touching her leg or something.
I was like, this is interesting, and then I went away,
And obviously now I've grown and I'm like that's dumb,
And I've become more comfortable with my own body hair
as a result of like challenging those views of like
what we expect women to be, particularly in hook up culture.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, and there's like a thing that I think gets
tossed around a bit as well as like fem privilege.
So yeah, you got like like they're easily like always approach,
they don't have to put any work and stuff, but
obviously it comes with a whole lot of other shit around,
Like people don't know that you're gay, ye, that you're interested.
But then there's also like there's a kind of unhealthy
level of expectation around a fem I think as well,
(16:38):
because like they have to almost kind of fit this criteria.
But it's really interesting now to see like TikTok culture
and Instagram lesbian culture changing because it's kind of it's
allowing people that have really uncomfortable I suppose it was
still coming to terms or enlightenment, enlightenment into their sexuality
(16:58):
kind of a safe space to be quote unquote feminine whatever,
whatever you define as feminine, which is really interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Right because it was like, let's break that cycle up.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
It's not dresses and skirts and long blonde hair like
sometimes it's literally just like whatever the fuck you want
it to be.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Yeah, it's feminine for you.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So anyway, there's like that's whole, that whole thing, but
like talking about it in the stereotypical sense, like almost
to the point that there's actually toxic femininity as well,
because like, like I know, I know women that would
be like I would never date someone with short.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Hair, like I don't.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I don't want really yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Like you know, I don't want them to look like
a man like I don't I date women because I
want a woman.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Oh no, I hate that.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
And I'm like, well, you know that was me like
when I was like twelve or like thirteen, Like I
like boys because like I want to, I want to
I want a man like and being feminine is not
being a man. Like that was my outlook probably like
thirteen to like sixteen or like yeah, maybe fifteen, and
(18:04):
then I had feelings for Yeah, I had feelings for
someone who was more feminine, and I kind of fell
in love with the person and not these stupid rules
that say who I'm allowed to like and what a
man is.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
That's really interesting as well that you experienced that, because
I like, you know, we talk about you in fashion whenever,
and Neil and I go to events together, I try
and like compliment his outfit so that I seem cooler
by comparison of someone who's very fashionable. And I think
you play with gender and femininity a lot.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Yeah, fashion. Yeah, And I'm grateful that I will kind
of fell in love with this person and broke that
internalized me thinking I was straight presenting loll. But yeah,
being able to see that within myself and kind of
except that person for who they are, not whether they're
(19:03):
feminine or masculine. Let me explore my own masculinity and
femininity and what that looks like to me, Just like
you with the the body hair. Yeah, in that, once
you've kind of accepted it in others, you're like, oh,
(19:23):
actually I can make this work for me, And yeah,
that's what I feel like I've done with changing it
up with femininity.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Before we were recording, actually, I was just like just
happened to be like scratching my ankle or something, and
I felt that my legs were shaved, and I was like, oh,
I forgot that I'd shaved my legs. How smooth. Obviously
been maybe a little while since I was like, oh,
that's nice.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
I forgot new sensation.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yes, but yeah, I was gonna say, it's really interesting.
Like I refer to, oh my god, got to keep
my hands off. I refer to like sexuality, like being
a spectrum and like fall in at wherever they want.
But the thing is, anything can change anytime, and I
know that we've got labels and categories and tropes and
(20:09):
ways that people identify within the community to either maybe
create a safe space for themselves or to find like
minded individuals into the same thing, maybe identify the same way.
But it's really interesting because that's a really good thing.
But there's also something that's kind of almost counterproductive in
a lot of other ways. So I think because then
because some way, if someone identifies as that, then people
(20:31):
are like, oh, like that's a.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Well you have to do this, this and this in
order to identify as that.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, or you know, if you identify as them, it's like, oh, well,
you're really girly and like you don't care about you know,
people that are gender diverse and or like you don't
fuck with people that have short hair or identify as.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Really masculine or whatever it is, or that that's all
that you're into.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So it's like there's so much, Like I said, life
is gray, but there's so much we need to unpack
as a community.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Almost we're not going to do it right here in
the Student Actually let's do it chapter one.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
No, But it's like, well everyone's at ten until proven otherwise.
Like that's something I've always kind of gone into, whether
it be hoo coupying.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Like hook coupyo couppying because you're in a beautiful.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Whether it's hooking out with someone.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Crying screaming, but like yeah, whether it's like approaching someone
to be to take them on a date or to
court them or to go on like whatever whatever it is, Like,
I think we're such a fucking judgmental society.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
We gotta be better, And yeah, unpacked that own in
our own minds.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
And keep an eye on our own community, because our
community does does rely a lot on labels to power
us to keep an eye on when things are becoming toxic,
like categories on Grinder or I don't know what grind
is like, but I'm assuming these categories.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yeah, there's a bunch of categories we can go through.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, and let us know if in another episode you
would like us to go through Nil's dating profile.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Oh my god, if you've seen me, please ignore me.
I got a message that was really funny. I'm not
sure if I showed you, but someone just messaged me
out of nowhere and they were like, don't Stare at Me,
which is one of my songs, deserves a Grammy. And
I was like, oh my god, how do you know
it's even me?
Speaker 3 (22:23):
What wasn't in the photo?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
No?
Speaker 4 (22:26):
In like, oh yeah, true. People just recognize that body
and they're like, hey, like I know that.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Although Don't Stare is one of my actually it is
my favorite song.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Oh that's cute. Thanks, it's one of my favorites, one
of them.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
And that's interesting because it's like that song covers the
topic of like over sexualization, Yeah, and that you experienced
with and not just like the gay community, but society
in general.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Yeah, definitely. I don't know how else to expand on that,
because you pretty much summarized, well, what I was.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Actually doing was leading us into the question of like
are you working on new music?
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Oh, music, Yes, definitely writing and yeah, I've been in
a little bit of a rut, but now that I
have this amazing studio to work out of, yeah, you
can definitely expect some upcoming tunes.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
That's exciting.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
A little plug. See, you're welcome, Okay, grinder, I'm logging on.
We're gonna we're gonna.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Have a look at the I don't want to see
something though you were youth.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
I'm just gonna I'm going to show the girls now
and you're gonna hear their reaction.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Oh my goodness, gracious, I hope.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
We can hear your reaction from that corny That was great.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
The top middle one is just oh I didn't even
so people just it's like someone's entire booty, Yeah, but
with a little love heart emoji over the whole.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
So that is like taekwondo belt.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Like it looks like I'm going to say it's an.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Apron yeah, but it's like, I it's like, what's that
Ariana Grande song? Switching up positions? Position I can cook
and clean, oh yeah, also be a big Yeah, that's.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
What's what that's serving. Yeah, even like even the names
on this, Like, these are where you're supposed to put
your names in read that. Read that name for me.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
I don't want to read it peace sign.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Oh do you need to mutual.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Your Okay, it's the sensored version mutual wank.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
What's the person's name name? Christian name, a family name?
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Actually, like people literally just keen looking Matt, Matt.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
It's interesting, good work, Matt. It's interesting that there's no
like lesbian version of that, Like lesbian dating apps are
just like normal dating apps, but queer women specific. There's
no like that I know what anyway, like app that's
like just for lesbians who want to hook up and
it's just down a business. Yeah, it's like dating apps.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, Like there's some there's some that are coming like through.
I think there's one called like Fields or play the
Field or something.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
And it's like for all the AFL lesbians.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Of softballs or something.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, I think it's for like people that are like
polyamorous and like pen sexual and sorry not pen sexual.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
I just need to start.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
We're non monogamous, yeah, yeah, it's for people that are.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Not monogamous, all right.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Yeah, Also, do you want to play a little game. Yeah, okay,
everyone listening can play as well. I guess, So.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Don't get a great.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
We're just going to count how many tribes we know, like,
how many you can make it? Like you, I'm going
to read, Yeah, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Read, blows are on there?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
So you can filter out any mob you might be
related to. Should we start working on a black fellow
dating out done?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
What did you call it?
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Not mob?
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Because it's a day that helps you find black people
today that who are not mob?
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Great? Can work shop? No one still that I do,
so go with it be written anyway. So if you
get to how many are there? First of all, what
would you.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Call like the hook up version scrape? Question mark?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
I don't know what scrape means. I I don't understand.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Okay, so there's twelve. They've called them tribes on here,
we can call them categories. It's called tribes.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I don't know if that's cultural appropriate.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Yeah? Interesting, But I like Rinda is not like the
healthiest of dating apps.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Who's gonna hold them accountable?
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I guess? Okay, now we have try and guess that.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Okay, so there's twelve. If you get ten, great work,
you get a gold star and then star lesbians. Not
that type of god star. But let's go through them.
Count them on your hand. Let's go bear.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I know that one.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
Okay, clean cut, No, I don't know, circumcized. No, that's
what I thought. I thought it had reference to.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I don't know, you said this the other day, like
a corporate gay.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
No, I could be getting these categories very well behaved, yeah, clean.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
I think it has to do with the body type
and that they're clean cut. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, interesting, that's
number two.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Yeah, and we all have to come up with a
new tribe.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Okay. In quotations, okay, daddy.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, we know that that's someone who's just older, easy.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Yeah, discreete see someone Yeah, great geek kind of self
explanatory jack leather. Yeah, I don't even.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Know if that's like that's the thing. Remember we went
to that party, right, me?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Just about it like a sort of thing for like cowboys.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
No, it's like like leather.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, letther always talk about cowboys are gay.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
It should be.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Yeah, I know I know what leather is. Like they
all wear those like chest straps and stuff.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Yeah yeah, otter, Oh that's like.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
A bear, but not as much hair and they're a
little bit younger.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Well yeah, correct, I've lost count now, but that one no, no, no,
of course. Yeah. I considered myself one at one point,
but then I just shave all the time, so it
can't be one.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Now, which one you.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
We'll get to that.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Pause pause, like HIV positive. That's nice, yeah right, rugged
like a lumberjack. Yeah, possibly, I feel like it's scruffy.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Ruffy, yeah, but would not be beat Yeah, but maybe
not as maybe it's like a like isn't it isn't
there like kind of like a larger.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Large Oh yeah, they're heavier.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah yeah, yeah, where it's like that could just be
like you know, it has one hair or.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Yeah yeah yeah, trans twink like like a younger twink
like I sort of do. I just explain a little bit.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
But not a lot of hair.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah maybe like no, yeah, without being like twink.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
I think twink is just like someone who's boyish and
that they're usually hair is kind of young, skinny, young skinny, like.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Like like new as well like a baby gang.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
No, you can be an old twink like that's the
thing you commit to it for life. Yeah, yeah, sober.
I don't know why that's a tribe on grind because
of drink. Well, it doesn't have to do with just drinking.
It's like drugs because people have wired fun, which means
that they have drugs and hook up so sober and
(30:58):
then not specific, which is I don't even I don't.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Know how to It's like, you know what, you tell
me what I want?
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, how many did you get? We didn't count, but I.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Forgot I actually knew quite a bit of the right.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Yeah, yeah, we didn't do you much.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yeah, but I thought there would be more.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Yeah, I feel like there is. But this, this is
just grinded tribe. So I'm sure that there are a
bunch more tribes, communities within communities.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
You make up one, now, oh make up one?
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Jeez, putting me on the spot.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
I'm thinking, like one of the tribes could be what's
something dumb?
Speaker 4 (31:46):
I was thinking for like what's missing in the tribes?
Like what can I help? And you're like, what's dumb?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
It's like people who just really love lego, you know.
I'm thinking, like, how come there's not like a kink
one there?
Speaker 4 (32:00):
You know, I mean they had leather, but leather is yeah,
that's kind.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Of like the various aspects of BDSM one in there,
which I was surprised about.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Right, yeah, I don't know what i'd call one. I'm
so blank.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I'm surprised there's not ones like around like religion.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Or oh yeah, no, one's religious. I can't. I mean
that I maybe who knows.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
I can't speak for everyone practicing.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Depends what church is prescribed to. Who knows that many churches?
Speaker 3 (32:32):
True? True?
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Yeah, Well that was fun. Do you have that many
tribes categories or like on your dating apps?
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Well?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
No, like, I mean, what's that? What's that lesbian dating
apps called?
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I don't think there's I.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Went on it for five seconds and I really didn't
like how yeah, the layer and stuff. I preferred bumble
and hinge, And as far as I'm aware, it was
just like if you were looking for men or women
I think, and then you have an age bracket was
like lesbian.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Oh what's it's a lesbian one?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
I think, Oh, it's a lesbian specific app, but didn't
have categories.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, I can't remember, no.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Or other communities? Are the categories within the lesbian community were.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Just referring to to so both like mask fam.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
You have like fem for them, like you know, like
someone who's feminineating someone who's also feminine.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Lesbian, which is kind of almost the same thing.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
It's like high high fam Yeah, and then you have
like your butch, then you have.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Your chapstick lesbian, which is what's the difference.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
It's like feminine, but like I maybe would call you chapstick.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Yeah, I think I would too.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Yeah, Like you're not like not masculine, but you're also
not like running around in dresses.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, yeah, I do want occasion though, to be fair,
that's why your chaps.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Got it.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
We did reference lesbians, well the one we coin lesbians
of course, the lesbians country gays. Yeah, how girls, Yeah
that's great, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Whatever, cottage corps.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I thought that was just an aesthetic, I think, I.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Think, and Instagram people are like yeah true, yeah, I guess, yeah,
I don't.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Know what else.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
There's heaps but starred Yeah, the d world daddy's. I've
met some lesbian daddies in my.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
Life, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Well, actually I've played basketball against this person without identifying them,
but their nickname on their jerseys daddy dog, because I
know it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, slender.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
But yeah, like so then you both like I don't
know what that means. I thought it was the same thing.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
So definitely lots of categories in terms of like how
you label yourself in the lesbian community, but they don't
feel as negative.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
Yeah, they're not very body specific no right present, Yeah,
because people probably wouldn't say like koby no or yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
It's more how you outwardly present yourself and your fashion
and your and attitude rather than body type, which is interesting.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
We've got sporty gays.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's you got like girls. Oh yeah, there's
obviously a lot of overlapping if we if we've not
thought of any communities or labels, let us know, let
us know.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
Yeah. One that I really like is gamers, Like it's
just it's gays, like.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
G a y there float in my negrad this year
of gay gamers.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
Yeah, I loved it. It was my favorite. I'm a
I would say I'm a gamer in that gay and
I love video games. Yeah, and I guess connecting with
other gay people who play you deo games is kind
of a rarity. It's not like super like, it's not
as popular in the gay community. So it's really nice
(36:08):
to be able to be like, I'm a gamer and
like subscribe to those Facebook pages and stuff like that.
And yeah, I like the gamer community as well because
it's like we literally just talk about games.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
And say, a new one that's kind of emerged is
TikTok gays and TikTok.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Yeah, right, is that in that you're just gay on TikTok?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I think it's like I think it's a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Now people are out there meeting the love of their
life through TikTok.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Yeah, I've seen a few, didn't you show me example.
Let's not talk about anyway, I think to finish up
the episode, let's all name one because obviously we've talked
about some of the negative parts of labels and community.
Let's all finish with one positive thing that you really
appreciate about, either the community that you're a part of
(37:00):
or or labels in general.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
Yeah. I really like labels for I guess the beginning
phase of acceptance, like accepting your sexuality. I think they're
a really good tool to like connect with other people
like you as well as have that safe space like
(37:24):
what you were saying earlier, Courtney, But yeah, I think
we need to while they can be helpful for our community.
They can also be negative, and I think it's just
we need to look inwards and check ourselves, check our community,
and make sure that we're not upholding those negative aspects
(37:44):
about labels. That's my opinion on labels, And I guess
something positive about the queer community acceptance, even though there
is like people who are out there who exclude just
(38:07):
because they have a preference, Like, yeah, it can also
be like I think it is the most accepting community
out there and that we've all had this struggle and
we've all kind of been shunned by society and now
(38:27):
we're all out or identifies whatever you want to identify
as an I feel like our community is one of
the most accepting and that's something I'm very proud to
be a part of.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Awesome. Yeah, that's a good one. Mine would be. I
obviously agree with everything you said.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
I really appreciate and value the power that our community
labels have brought us in the past, with you know,
fighting for our rights, and how our communities have supported
one another, like our internal communities. You think about like
dikes on bikes and how they would patrol the streets
(39:11):
in the area of Oxford Street, protecting gay men who
were out or intoxicated and those sorts of things. And
I think those sorts of relationships between our community is
like what makes us such an incredible inclusive community, and
people calling out people who have like tough like attitudes
(39:32):
and just making sure that we can try and keep
our community this inclusive, loving, equal community. Yeah, that is
what I appreciate most.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Agreed, And I think, yeah, both exactly what you guys
have said.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
I think it can be really cathartic being and being
in safe space with someone, And I think I'm learning
more and more about my own like internalized homophobia and
stuff and how to kind of almost counteract that.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
And in space is like you know.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
How people are like, oh, well, you know, you don't
to make it your whole personality just because it's just sexuality.
But I'm also finding that if I out myself in
a new space, it just kind of creates a space
for someone else to feel comfortable, just to let just
one little layer back down.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
But the Yeah, I think the catharticism that is out
a word it is now.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
That comes with yeah, being like I mean, particularly this
experience right now, three indigenous queer people in one room
could would not have thought of that. I would be
in a room with your like, you know, a few
years ago before I came out, you know. So it's
very imbrasive and it's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
So I love it.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
We love it all right then, Well, Neil, remind everyone
where they can find you.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
You can find me on Instagram, Spotify, wherever you listen
to your music, my social handles, and you can find
me everywhere under Louis Libran.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Hit me up now and tell him which one your
favorite songs.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
Tell me what song of mine deserves a Grammy. Thank you.
Not through Grinder please.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Where you can find us is at Coming Out Black,
b l okay, on Instagram, Facebook, anywhere you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Not on Grinder right now, No, I give it.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Just we'll see, okay, we'll see, or send us an
email on Coming Up Black at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Bye bye
This podcast is recorded on Stolen Land. We acknowledge and
pay our.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Respects to our elders, past, present, and for future generations.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Hi. I'm Atika and I'm Courtney, and we're two Queer
First Nations women passionate about representation for our community. We
created this podcast to share our stories. We want you
to join us on the journey.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
You're listening to Coming Out Latch.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
As always is a fantastic episode, but in particular today
because we have a fantastic musical guest sing No, I'm
just kidding. Those of you who have listened to the
podcast before will be familiar with Neil Johnson aka Louis
Lee Brandon, performer extraordinaire and also my cousin. And we
(00:51):
brought you back for another episode.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Yeah, thank you for having me. It's good to be back.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yeah always. Well, you're here because there's a particular topic
that I want to chat with you. But you're also
here because you've been kind enough to let us record
in your personal studio.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Now at my personal studio, at my work studio. I'm
very grateful to have the space to record in here
and make you guys sound amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, I'm also here.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You just say something. Yeah. So if you're wondering why
last week's episode was the bomb dot Com, it's because
we recorded it here in the studio.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Hell yeah, this ship was crisp.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah yeah. Anyway, so today's episode topic, I guess, kind
of comes from an experience that we had Neil. So
we were out at the bit of Tit and Redfern
and actually, yeah that was really good, and you had
spotted someone in the crowd that you had had sexual intercourse.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
We're right to it. It's like.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
You've seen someone that eats slept with and you were like,
oh my god, my take. I've suffer with that person
before and I've blocked them on everything, and that now
I have to pretend that I don't see them. And
I was like what And I was really confused. It
was like hilarious of course at the time. And then
they walked back. It was a really like awkward hello
as they walked past. And then when we got home,
I was like, why do And this is going to
(02:26):
be a big old stereotype, So stay with me for
a sec. Why do people in the gate male community
like hate running into people that they've slept with or
like they'll talk to someone and then they have to
block them and everything, and it's like it for me,
as an outsider, it seems almost shameful to like run
(02:47):
into someone that you've slept with before, because that's I'm sure,
as you can attest to Courtney, so different to how
things work in the lesbian community.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, so I.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Was like, what's the deal? And then I was like,
what stop talking? This is a podcast episode.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
What a great podcast episode? Idea don't speak for the
booth essentially.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Saved it for this episode. So that was my what
are your thoughts of like those? Have you noticed that
in like gay friends.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Or Yeah, what's the what's the classic joke? What do
you call a group of rids? What do they call lesbians?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Exits?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah, didn't when that's obviously not it's seemingly not the
case within the gamel community. Can you enlighten us lesbians please?
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Yeah? Sure, Well my experience, I think it's it's pretty
What am I trying to say?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
It's like, is it the gay community.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Or is it just you? It could be just me,
but yeah, as you said, it's a massive stereotype and
I think that I get this vibe from other gay
men as well. And that they will block you for
any reason. And I've kind of fallen into those stereotypes
(04:10):
and like and.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
The way everyone else does it. So you've just picked
it up.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like I haven't. Like one
of my best friends, he and his like long term
boyfriend broke up, Like they broke up, have not talked
ever since.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Yeah, that's totally normal.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Not I mean, that's a breakup. That's different.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh okay, Like yeah, but.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Would you block them completely from everything in entire existence? Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat,
like we cover all grounds, phone numbers.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
We don't want to be I haven't got any of
my exes' I'm relatively like, I'm okay with one of them.
The other one I'm fine with, but I'm pretty sure
she has me blocked on everything, right, And those are
all the exes that.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I think. I've like kind of have a few different experiences.
And it's also the people that you don't have a
relationship with.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It's like there's a lot of those.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
So there's like a lot of people that I've this
sounds bad, there's a lot of people that I've There's
a lot of people, but like I see them in
community or they're in my friendship groups or you know,
whatever it is, and then that's like, that's fine, and
it's quite relatively normal to like run into people that
you've slept with or have them just be like in
(05:28):
social circles around you. Within the lesbian community. Yeah, and
it seems to be the total opposite.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
A community sounds nice, it's not mine experience. Yeah, I
feel like there's some level of shame in that. When
we talk to each other, it's like very sexual. There's
no getting to know one another. It's literally, hey, how
(05:54):
are you. You're lucky to get hey, how are you?
Usually it's just a dig pic or whatever pick it's
usually nudity is like the first point of contact or
like a hey, looking for fun exo, like so gossip
Girl it's yeah, it's so sexual. I think even on
(06:18):
Tinder it doesn't matter like what app you go on
grinding Tinder, maybe Hinde is a.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Bit better, whereas maybe, like I from our experiences in
online dating, it's like, oh my god, I accidentally just
fell in love with this person, and that's not like
every there's certainly an emotional connection and there's like talking
about things other than sex. Even if it is people
that you're just sleeping with. In my experience, yeah, it's like, oh,
(06:44):
I'm just a nice person.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, I've just wanted me excruciatingly eating excruciatingly like passionate
emotional for someone. Yeah. Yeah, is that is?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Does that happen to like the way the sexes move
through society in general, Like it's more expected that women
talk about their feelings and connect with people, and we're
considered more social creatures than men, whereas men are visual creatures,
sexual physical creatures.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Yeah. Yeah, it could be that it just comes down
to maybe our anatomy or genetics. I'm sure somewhere it's
a it's a part of it.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
But but I also think, like, oh my god, I
just had like a really good point.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Just I'm just gonna say, like to acknowledge our NB
friends as well. It's really interesting people that I meet
that are non binary, like how they interpret these kinds
of situations or people that are penned because like they're
different with men or women or non binary folk. And
then we've also got the nuances of the queer or
(07:55):
lesbian community. I suppose if you've got like, sorry, passionate
making noise, you've got like mask.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Uh, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
People that I didnvis mask, and sometimes there's like a
bit of a trope where they have no masks, they
don't like to talk about their feelings and.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
They scorpio energy.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, and then we get into horoscope.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Yeah, I mean, of course, I mean, and we can
only come at this conversation from a lesbian versus gay
and of course there are going to be a bunch
of other nuances. So if you're someone from any of
those communities that Courtney just mentioned, and like you'd like
to weigh in your thoughts on like your experience in
dating and whether there is you know, the level of
(08:42):
secrecy or shame that's experience in the gay community versus
they're like intense, you're going to see this person all
the time it's in the lesbian community. Let us know,
maybe even send like a like a voice message or
something and we can share that on like instrument stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
And nothing's back and white.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, sorry no, but like you know, everything life is great,
so there's nuances to everything. But yeah, this is a
really interesting topic because it's so vastly stereotypically different.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah, totally. I thought that maybe it might link into
the way homosexuality or lesbianism has been received by the
wider society. So for example, lesbians are like, oh, really
like and they're fantasized, and it's more people find it
(09:32):
more understandable that we would be curious and we're just
like curious little creatures, whereas the way society has received
male homosexuality is dirty, disgusting, and that's led into people
within the gay community continuing to have that weight on
(09:56):
their shoulders of this level of shame, even if you
are in a place where you are really comfortable with yourself.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Yeah, I think that's that's a really good point to make.
I think on on these dating apps, there's a lot
of men who don't show their face, who are discreete
or who are won't meet up with you has to
be anonymous, and like they're not into other men who
(10:23):
are not anonymous, so weird, But that makes that's a
that's a good point, I think.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I think.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
I just I think you crack the card.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
We start our own like Scooby Gang. Yeah, that's I
think that's that's probably where it comes from, right, or
a part of it, yeah, yeah, or even like we
were talking before we started recording, how it's my understanding
that within the gay community there's all of these like
(10:53):
you know, someone sleep with you if you want to
practice safe sex, or like the whole on grinder like
no snow fems.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Yeah, there's all of this criteria that I think we
need to meet, and yeah, it's it's I think it's
damaging to the community. I mean there's like labels, help
like anyone put people into boxes so that we know
what's to look for, what we like to search for.
But yeah, when it comes to meeting someone's criteria or
(11:26):
being blocked just because you're a certain ethnicity or you
look like some type of way or don't fit into
someone else's criteria, it's as easy as a block. And
I think like the cycle continues because.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
It's just like I think that's really unhealthy and how
must that impact people's sense of self? Like if you're
when people talk about like straight skinny, gay.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Fat, you heard that before gay skinny?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
What straight skinny?
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Straight skinny?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Like, oh, you're skinny. But in the gay community, and
I'm using quotations, yeah, they're considered chubby or whatever. It is,
like it sometimes seems like a really judgmental community.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Yeah, well all of a lot of those faceless dating apps.
Just if they're faceless, it's often that they're ripped or
like shredded, And it's just some standard that the gay
community has upheld, and I think everyone kind of falls
into that, Like I have to consciously think why am
(12:33):
I going to the gym? Like am I going to
fit or be more likable to these men who really
I shouldn't be like appealing or trying to appeal to.
So yeah, definitely does take a toll on oneself. I
(12:54):
think it's good to think about that stuff in that
like am I going to the gym to get ripped?
Or is it for my health? Or am I happy
to look like this? Or am I happy that I'm
shredded because the world is telling me that that's what
you need to be happy or to be accepted in
the gay community.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Yeah. Well, do you think that there's like a similar
experience that lesbians have called me? I'm not sure in
terms of those judgmental elements.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, Oh, there's definitely things. I think.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
There's this I feel like I've been privy to biphobia,
and there's also you know, the what do you call it?
They call it the platinum or the gold style as
oh yeah, and that means like you've never been with
a man before.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
And somehow they're like a better lesbian for that.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, Like how was that added value? That's why I
find that really strange.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
But I think there's a lot of I think both
both communities, right, Like a lot of queer community have
a lot of that internalized hopophobia in ourselves and that
comes out in different and depending on what kind of
group you're in. And yeah, like I've got friends that
are yeah, like identify as mask and you know, have
almost have gone so far into that that they've developed
(14:13):
toxic masculinity.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
You gotta call them out. You've gotta hold your friends accountable.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Good.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
But like, I think that trope in our community, I
suppose it is probably one of the most toxic.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Totally, and I think it's unhelpful. Yeah, Like it's it's
not allowing room for the breadth of experience that quitness is.
Like there are a lot of people who coming out
and realizing who they were was not something that was
safe for them to do, and so they had to
live a life where they you know, were trying to
find happiness in a life they didn't really want, whether
(14:45):
it be married, children, or just you know, pretending to
be straight for however long that is. Yeah, So I agree,
that's probably like one of the more negative aspects of
the lesbian community. The other things I can sort of
think of are like, I know there'll be some women
who and this is in terms of hookups, because you
(15:06):
know that's what you're sharing. Deal. Some women who like
are real sticklers about like body hair, and they think
that like women having more hair than usual, whether that
be their legs, the pubic arrier, growing their under arms
or whatever, is gross and like not feminine. And I
think that that is a really gross part of like
(15:28):
women who were meant to love women. And I even
found part of that reflected in myself in my dating experience.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Like if I.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Started seeing someone and they had more hair on their
legs than I was traditionally sort of used to, I
caught myself and I was like, why am I shocked
by this? Why am I like, oh my god, she
has hairy legs? And and I went away from that,
and I was like, why was I a little bit
thrown by the fact that this person had really hairy legs?
(16:00):
Or like when I was touching her leg or something.
I was like, this is interesting, and then I went away,
And obviously now I've grown and I'm like that's dumb,
And I've become more comfortable with my own body hair
as a result of like challenging those views of like
what we expect women to be, particularly in hook up culture.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, and there's like a thing that I think gets
tossed around a bit as well as like fem privilege.
So yeah, you got like like they're easily like always approach,
they don't have to put any work and stuff, but
obviously it comes with a whole lot of other shit around,
Like people don't know that you're gay, ye, that you're interested.
But then there's also like there's a kind of unhealthy
level of expectation around a fem I think as well,
(16:38):
because like they have to almost kind of fit this criteria.
But it's really interesting now to see like TikTok culture
and Instagram lesbian culture changing because it's kind of it's
allowing people that have really uncomfortable I suppose it was
still coming to terms or enlightenment, enlightenment into their sexuality
(16:58):
kind of a safe space to be quote unquote feminine whatever,
whatever you define as feminine, which is really interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Right because it was like, let's break that cycle up.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
It's not dresses and skirts and long blonde hair like
sometimes it's literally just like whatever the fuck you want
it to be.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Yeah, it's feminine for you.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
So anyway, there's like that's whole, that whole thing, but
like talking about it in the stereotypical sense, like almost
to the point that there's actually toxic femininity as well,
because like, like I know, I know women that would
be like I would never date someone with short.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Hair, like I don't.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I don't want really yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Like you know, I don't want them to look like
a man like I don't I date women because I
want a woman.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Oh no, I hate that.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
And I'm like, well, you know that was me like
when I was like twelve or like thirteen, Like I
like boys because like I want to, I want to
I want a man like and being feminine is not
being a man. Like that was my outlook probably like
thirteen to like sixteen or like yeah, maybe fifteen, and
(18:04):
then I had feelings for Yeah, I had feelings for
someone who was more feminine, and I kind of fell
in love with the person and not these stupid rules
that say who I'm allowed to like and what a
man is.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
That's really interesting as well that you experienced that, because
I like, you know, we talk about you in fashion whenever,
and Neil and I go to events together, I try
and like compliment his outfit so that I seem cooler
by comparison of someone who's very fashionable. And I think
you play with gender and femininity a lot.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Yeah, fashion. Yeah, And I'm grateful that I will kind
of fell in love with this person and broke that
internalized me thinking I was straight presenting loll. But yeah,
being able to see that within myself and kind of
except that person for who they are, not whether they're
(19:03):
feminine or masculine. Let me explore my own masculinity and
femininity and what that looks like to me, Just like
you with the the body hair. Yeah, in that, once
you've kind of accepted it in others, you're like, oh,
(19:23):
actually I can make this work for me, And yeah,
that's what I feel like I've done with changing it
up with femininity.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Before we were recording, actually, I was just like just
happened to be like scratching my ankle or something, and
I felt that my legs were shaved, and I was like, oh,
I forgot that I'd shaved my legs. How smooth. Obviously
been maybe a little while since I was like, oh,
that's nice.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
I forgot new sensation.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yes, but yeah, I was gonna say, it's really interesting.
Like I refer to, oh my god, got to keep
my hands off. I refer to like sexuality, like being
a spectrum and like fall in at wherever they want.
But the thing is, anything can change anytime, and I
know that we've got labels and categories and tropes and
(20:09):
ways that people identify within the community to either maybe
create a safe space for themselves or to find like
minded individuals into the same thing, maybe identify the same way.
But it's really interesting because that's a really good thing.
But there's also something that's kind of almost counterproductive in
a lot of other ways. So I think because then
because some way, if someone identifies as that, then people
(20:31):
are like, oh, like that's a.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Well you have to do this, this and this in
order to identify as that.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, or you know, if you identify as them, it's like, oh, well,
you're really girly and like you don't care about you know,
people that are gender diverse and or like you don't
fuck with people that have short hair or identify as.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Really masculine or whatever it is, or that that's all
that you're into.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So it's like there's so much, Like I said, life
is gray, but there's so much we need to unpack
as a community.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Almost we're not going to do it right here in
the Student Actually let's do it chapter one.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
No, But it's like, well everyone's at ten until proven otherwise.
Like that's something I've always kind of gone into, whether
it be hoo coupying.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Like hook coupyo couppying because you're in a beautiful.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Whether it's hooking out with someone.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Crying screaming, but like yeah, whether it's like approaching someone
to be to take them on a date or to
court them or to go on like whatever whatever it is, Like,
I think we're such a fucking judgmental society.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
We gotta be better, And yeah, unpacked that own in
our own minds.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
And keep an eye on our own community, because our
community does does rely a lot on labels to power
us to keep an eye on when things are becoming toxic,
like categories on Grinder or I don't know what grind
is like, but I'm assuming these categories.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yeah, there's a bunch of categories we can go through.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, and let us know if in another episode you
would like us to go through Nil's dating profile.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Oh my god, if you've seen me, please ignore me.
I got a message that was really funny. I'm not
sure if I showed you, but someone just messaged me
out of nowhere and they were like, don't Stare at Me,
which is one of my songs, deserves a Grammy. And
I was like, oh my god, how do you know
it's even me?
Speaker 3 (22:23):
What wasn't in the photo?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
No?
Speaker 4 (22:26):
In like, oh yeah, true. People just recognize that body
and they're like, hey, like I know that.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Although Don't Stare is one of my actually it is
my favorite song.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Oh that's cute. Thanks, it's one of my favorites, one
of them.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
And that's interesting because it's like that song covers the
topic of like over sexualization, Yeah, and that you experienced
with and not just like the gay community, but society
in general.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Yeah, definitely. I don't know how else to expand on that,
because you pretty much summarized, well, what I was.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Actually doing was leading us into the question of like
are you working on new music?
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Oh, music, Yes, definitely writing and yeah, I've been in
a little bit of a rut, but now that I
have this amazing studio to work out of, yeah, you
can definitely expect some upcoming tunes.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
That's exciting.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
A little plug. See, you're welcome, Okay, grinder, I'm logging on.
We're gonna we're gonna.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Have a look at the I don't want to see
something though you were youth.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
I'm just gonna I'm going to show the girls now
and you're gonna hear their reaction.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Oh my goodness, gracious, I hope.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
We can hear your reaction from that corny That was great.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
The top middle one is just oh I didn't even
so people just it's like someone's entire booty, Yeah, but
with a little love heart emoji over the whole.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
So that is like taekwondo belt.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Like it looks like I'm going to say it's an.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Apron yeah, but it's like, I it's like, what's that
Ariana Grande song? Switching up positions? Position I can cook
and clean, oh yeah, also be a big Yeah, that's.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
What's what that's serving. Yeah, even like even the names
on this, Like, these are where you're supposed to put
your names in read that. Read that name for me.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
I don't want to read it peace sign.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Oh do you need to mutual.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Your Okay, it's the sensored version mutual wank.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
What's the person's name name? Christian name, a family name?
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Actually, like people literally just keen looking Matt, Matt.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
It's interesting, good work, Matt. It's interesting that there's no
like lesbian version of that, Like lesbian dating apps are
just like normal dating apps, but queer women specific. There's
no like that I know what anyway, like app that's
like just for lesbians who want to hook up and
it's just down a business. Yeah, it's like dating apps.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, Like there's some there's some that are coming like through.
I think there's one called like Fields or play the
Field or something.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
And it's like for all the AFL lesbians.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Of softballs or something.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, I think it's for like people that are like
polyamorous and like pen sexual and sorry not pen sexual.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
I just need to start.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
We're non monogamous, yeah, yeah, it's for people that are.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Not monogamous, all right.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Yeah, Also, do you want to play a little game. Yeah, okay,
everyone listening can play as well. I guess, So.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Don't get a great.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
We're just going to count how many tribes we know, like,
how many you can make it? Like you, I'm going
to read, Yeah, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Read, blows are on there?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
So you can filter out any mob you might be
related to. Should we start working on a black fellow
dating out done?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
What did you call it?
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Not mob?
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Because it's a day that helps you find black people
today that who are not mob?
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Great? Can work shop? No one still that I do,
so go with it be written anyway. So if you
get to how many are there? First of all, what
would you.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Call like the hook up version scrape? Question mark?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
I don't know what scrape means. I I don't understand.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Okay, so there's twelve. They've called them tribes on here,
we can call them categories. It's called tribes.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I don't know if that's cultural appropriate.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Yeah? Interesting, But I like Rinda is not like the
healthiest of dating apps.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Who's gonna hold them accountable?
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I guess? Okay, now we have try and guess that.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Okay, so there's twelve. If you get ten, great work,
you get a gold star and then star lesbians. Not
that type of god star. But let's go through them.
Count them on your hand. Let's go bear.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I know that one.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
Okay, clean cut, No, I don't know, circumcized. No, that's
what I thought. I thought it had reference to.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
I don't know, you said this the other day, like
a corporate gay.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
No, I could be getting these categories very well behaved, yeah, clean.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
I think it has to do with the body type
and that they're clean cut. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, interesting, that's
number two.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Yeah, and we all have to come up with a
new tribe.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Okay. In quotations, okay, daddy.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, we know that that's someone who's just older, easy.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Yeah, discreete see someone Yeah, great geek kind of self
explanatory jack leather. Yeah, I don't even.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Know if that's like that's the thing. Remember we went
to that party, right, me?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Just about it like a sort of thing for like cowboys.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
No, it's like like leather.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, letther always talk about cowboys are gay.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
It should be.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Yeah, I know I know what leather is. Like they
all wear those like chest straps and stuff.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Yeah yeah, otter, Oh that's like.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
A bear, but not as much hair and they're a
little bit younger.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Well yeah, correct, I've lost count now, but that one no, no, no,
of course. Yeah. I considered myself one at one point,
but then I just shave all the time, so it
can't be one.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Now, which one you.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
We'll get to that.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Pause pause, like HIV positive. That's nice, yeah right, rugged
like a lumberjack. Yeah, possibly, I feel like it's scruffy.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Ruffy, yeah, but would not be beat Yeah, but maybe
not as maybe it's like a like isn't it isn't
there like kind of like a larger.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Large Oh yeah, they're heavier.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah yeah, yeah, where it's like that could just be
like you know, it has one hair or.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Yeah yeah yeah, trans twink like like a younger twink
like I sort of do. I just explain a little bit.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
But not a lot of hair.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah maybe like no, yeah, without being like twink.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
I think twink is just like someone who's boyish and
that they're usually hair is kind of young, skinny, young skinny, like.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Like like new as well like a baby gang.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
No, you can be an old twink like that's the
thing you commit to it for life. Yeah, yeah, sober.
I don't know why that's a tribe on grind because
of drink. Well, it doesn't have to do with just drinking.
It's like drugs because people have wired fun, which means
that they have drugs and hook up so sober and
(30:58):
then not specific, which is I don't even I don't.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Know how to It's like, you know what, you tell
me what I want?
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, how many did you get? We didn't count, but I.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Forgot I actually knew quite a bit of the right.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Yeah, yeah, we didn't do you much.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yeah, but I thought there would be more.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Yeah, I feel like there is. But this, this is
just grinded tribe. So I'm sure that there are a
bunch more tribes, communities within communities.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
You make up one, now, oh make up one?
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Jeez, putting me on the spot.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
I'm thinking, like one of the tribes could be what's
something dumb?
Speaker 4 (31:46):
I was thinking for like what's missing in the tribes?
Like what can I help? And you're like, what's dumb?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
It's like people who just really love lego, you know.
I'm thinking, like, how come there's not like a kink
one there?
Speaker 4 (32:00):
You know, I mean they had leather, but leather is yeah,
that's kind.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Of like the various aspects of BDSM one in there,
which I was surprised about.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Right, yeah, I don't know what i'd call one. I'm
so blank.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I'm surprised there's not ones like around like religion.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Or oh yeah, no, one's religious. I can't. I mean
that I maybe who knows.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
I can't speak for everyone practicing.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Depends what church is prescribed to. Who knows that many churches?
Speaker 3 (32:32):
True? True?
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Yeah, Well that was fun. Do you have that many
tribes categories or like on your dating apps?
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Well?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
No, like, I mean, what's that? What's that lesbian dating
apps called?
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I don't think there's I.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Went on it for five seconds and I really didn't
like how yeah, the layer and stuff. I preferred bumble
and hinge, And as far as I'm aware, it was
just like if you were looking for men or women
I think, and then you have an age bracket was
like lesbian.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Oh what's it's a lesbian one?
Speaker 3 (33:06):
I think, Oh, it's a lesbian specific app, but didn't
have categories.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, I can't remember, no.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Or other communities? Are the categories within the lesbian community were.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Just referring to to so both like mask fam.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
You have like fem for them, like you know, like
someone who's feminineating someone who's also feminine.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Lesbian, which is kind of almost the same thing.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
It's like high high fam Yeah, and then you have
like your butch, then you have.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Your chapstick lesbian, which is what's the difference.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
It's like feminine, but like I maybe would call you chapstick.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Yeah, I think I would too.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Yeah, Like you're not like not masculine, but you're also
not like running around in dresses.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, yeah, I do want occasion though, to be fair,
that's why your chaps.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Got it.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
We did reference lesbians, well the one we coin lesbians
of course, the lesbians country gays. Yeah, how girls, Yeah
that's great, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Whatever, cottage corps.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
I thought that was just an aesthetic, I think, I.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Think, and Instagram people are like yeah true, yeah, I guess, yeah,
I don't.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Know what else.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
There's heaps but starred Yeah, the d world daddy's. I've
met some lesbian daddies in my.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
Life, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Well, actually I've played basketball against this person without identifying them,
but their nickname on their jerseys daddy dog, because I
know it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, slender.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
But yeah, like so then you both like I don't
know what that means. I thought it was the same thing.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
So definitely lots of categories in terms of like how
you label yourself in the lesbian community, but they don't
feel as negative.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
Yeah, they're not very body specific no right present, Yeah,
because people probably wouldn't say like koby no or yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
It's more how you outwardly present yourself and your fashion
and your and attitude rather than body type, which is interesting.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
We've got sporty gays.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's you got like girls. Oh yeah, there's
obviously a lot of overlapping if we if we've not
thought of any communities or labels, let us know, let
us know.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
Yeah. One that I really like is gamers, Like it's
just it's gays, like.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
G a y there float in my negrad this year
of gay gamers.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
Yeah, I loved it. It was my favorite. I'm a
I would say I'm a gamer in that gay and
I love video games. Yeah, and I guess connecting with
other gay people who play you deo games is kind
of a rarity. It's not like super like, it's not
as popular in the gay community. So it's really nice
(36:08):
to be able to be like, I'm a gamer and
like subscribe to those Facebook pages and stuff like that.
And yeah, I like the gamer community as well because
it's like we literally just talk about games.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
And say, a new one that's kind of emerged is
TikTok gays and TikTok.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Yeah, right, is that in that you're just gay on TikTok?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I think it's like I think it's a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Now people are out there meeting the love of their
life through TikTok.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Yeah, I've seen a few, didn't you show me example.
Let's not talk about anyway, I think to finish up
the episode, let's all name one because obviously we've talked
about some of the negative parts of labels and community.
Let's all finish with one positive thing that you really
appreciate about, either the community that you're a part of
(37:00):
or or labels in general.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
Yeah. I really like labels for I guess the beginning
phase of acceptance, like accepting your sexuality. I think they're
a really good tool to like connect with other people
like you as well as have that safe space like
(37:24):
what you were saying earlier, Courtney, But yeah, I think
we need to while they can be helpful for our community.
They can also be negative, and I think it's just
we need to look inwards and check ourselves, check our community,
and make sure that we're not upholding those negative aspects
(37:44):
about labels. That's my opinion on labels, And I guess
something positive about the queer community acceptance, even though there
is like people who are out there who exclude just
(38:07):
because they have a preference, Like, yeah, it can also
be like I think it is the most accepting community
out there and that we've all had this struggle and
we've all kind of been shunned by society and now
(38:27):
we're all out or identifies whatever you want to identify
as an I feel like our community is one of
the most accepting and that's something I'm very proud to
be a part of.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Awesome. Yeah, that's a good one. Mine would be. I
obviously agree with everything you said.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
I really appreciate and value the power that our community
labels have brought us in the past, with you know,
fighting for our rights, and how our communities have supported
one another, like our internal communities. You think about like
dikes on bikes and how they would patrol the streets
(39:11):
in the area of Oxford Street, protecting gay men who
were out or intoxicated and those sorts of things. And
I think those sorts of relationships between our community is
like what makes us such an incredible inclusive community, and
people calling out people who have like tough like attitudes
(39:32):
and just making sure that we can try and keep
our community this inclusive, loving, equal community. Yeah, that is
what I appreciate most.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Agreed, And I think, yeah, both exactly what you guys
have said.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
I think it can be really cathartic being and being
in safe space with someone, And I think I'm learning
more and more about my own like internalized homophobia and
stuff and how to kind of almost counteract that.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
And in space is like you know.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
How people are like, oh, well, you know, you don't
to make it your whole personality just because it's just sexuality.
But I'm also finding that if I out myself in
a new space, it just kind of creates a space
for someone else to feel comfortable, just to let just
one little layer back down.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
But the Yeah, I think the catharticism that is out
a word it is now.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
That comes with yeah, being like I mean, particularly this
experience right now, three indigenous queer people in one room
could would not have thought of that. I would be
in a room with your like, you know, a few
years ago before I came out, you know. So it's
very imbrasive and it's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
So I love it.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
We love it all right then, Well, Neil, remind everyone
where they can find you.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
You can find me on Instagram, Spotify, wherever you listen
to your music, my social handles, and you can find
me everywhere under Louis Libran.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Hit me up now and tell him which one your
favorite songs.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
Tell me what song of mine deserves a Grammy. Thank you.
Not through Grinder please.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Where you can find us is at Coming Out Black,
b l okay, on Instagram, Facebook, anywhere you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Not on Grinder right now, No, I give it.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Just we'll see, okay, we'll see, or send us an
email on Coming Up Black at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Bye bye
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