February 2, 2024 • 33 mins
In the heart of this engaging episode, Nate shares his story of growing up in Rockhampton and the complexities tied to his racial and sexual identity in a region grappling with its stance on representation. The conversation navigates through family influences, community bonds, and the significance of storytelling in preserving heritage. As a journalist, Nate expresses his commitment to decolonizing narratives and uplifting Indigenous perspectives in media. The episode culminates in a soul-baring dialogue on the future expectations for queer First Nations individuals and the importance of carving out dedicated spaces for their voices to thrive.
This episode is brought to you by BlakCast and produced by Clint Curtis.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, I'm Mateka and I'm Courtney, and we're too queer
First Nations women passionate about representation for our community. We
created this podcast to share our stories. We want you
to join us on the journey.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
You're listening to Coming Out Black. Welcome back to Coming
Out Black. Today's episode.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
We are very lucky to be joined by the incredible
Nate Woodle. He is my cousin and the best person
I know. Nathan, Welcome, Thanks for having me so much.
I'm excited to be doing this with you.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It's great to have you.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
And this is a bit weird actually to record an
episode with someone you know pretty much your whole life,
Like I've known you since you were in diapers and
probably the same for you. And you know how much
of a dork that I am so trying to do
cool stuff while you knowing secretly that I'm not this cool.
It's kind of funny. But thank you again so much
for coming on. I mean, it's very much mutual. You know,
(00:57):
we've seen both the most critical moments.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Of each other, so you know there's no judgement here
completely say spacespletally.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Now that I think about it, it stems back to
those performances. Our mothers and aunties and grandparents make us
put on. Like someone asked me before why I am
so comfortable doing public speaking, And I think it's because
I lost my dignity at about like seven, when we
were performing, you know, the Spice girls in front of
all of our very distant relatives, you know. But I
(01:27):
do know the dance of my heart, and I do
recall at that same event, Nate, I don't remember if
you did a performance, but you were performing.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
I did, yeah, in a wig, I believe, which was
my first taste of drag, but definitely not my last.
But yeah, I think that like voluntary public humiliation kind
of I guess planted a seed in both of us
to put ourselves out in public more often than embarrass ourselves.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I think maybe it's like the false sense of like
security in a way that like people will applaud us,
maybe just because we're just used to that, like having
our family just like, wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Get up. Definitely.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
I mean, our aunties and uncles were definitely eating it up,
been sharing us on. But I didn't think the broader
public would have thought that our performances.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, what if they think about us, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, so Nate, tell us your story. Who are you,
who's your mob? Where are you from?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:21):
So, well my mom is your mom, Gubby Gubby Butler.
But I was born and raised in Rockhampton on the
Rumble Country before moving to Brisbane for university and then
I lived there for about six or seven years and
finally here in Melbourne.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
As a journalist. And yeah, that's the short and long
of it, I guess.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
And coming from the Rutnas Tutna's town in the country,
what was it like growing up in Rockhampton? And I
also don't think I asked you before, but how do
you identify as part.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Of the community. Well, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I think people have a lot of preconceptions about regional
Queensland being a trench for Queer people, and it very
much was, you know. At it's difficult to fully express
myself as I wanted to, but I think I was
very fortunate in that I had a safety net being
my family, who were, you know, ready to accept me
(03:17):
however I wanted to present myself. And then I also
just had a fortunate upbringing in the sense that I
had a good friendship group. But yeah, it was definitely
navigating both my sexuality and my identity as an Indigenous
person in a town that was not, you know, Rockampton,
I think voted twenty percent yes in the referendum for perspective,
(03:39):
so that it's kind of like, I don't think it
is necessarily a safe space, but at the same time,
I think, I, yeah, I was just blessed to have
a good support network around me.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, I don't know if that answered your question.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
And I guess like it would be tough to probably
hear those results given that you did feel there was
some safety. Do you feel like that result has impacted
the way that you think about home?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I mean, you know, like I said, I was born
and raised there, so for the large majority of my
life so far, I was surrounded by people who I
just kind of knew and loved and expected that love
and appreciation and respect to be reciprocated. But that result
kind of told me, well, maybe a lot of the
(04:29):
people that you know, I respected and looked up to,
maybe they didn't actually reciprocate that respect after all. And
it was very it was a very grounding moment, and
I think the whole nation kind of felt that, I know, definitely,
like a lot of our mob felt that, especially the
mob who were expecting a yes outcome, But it was
(04:51):
kind of a slap in the face.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I mean, I know a lot.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Of our mob weren't surprised, and maybe I should have
kind of expected that result from a place that is,
you know, so far removed from you know, the capital
cities or the places where the yes outcome was the majority,
but it was still. Yeah, I don't know, it was
definitely humbling, I think definitely, or maybe not humbling, but
(05:17):
but you know what I mean, it was grounding.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
It was yeah, sort more like a reality check in
a way, like it's very easy to feel safe in
your bubble, particularly in metropolitan areas or other areas where
you can just feel that that diversity is championed, for
lack of a better term, or just that you feel safe.
(05:40):
I think sometimes as black Feathers, as we navigate ourselves
around around the country, you sort of almost had like
an innate feeling within yourself whether you're safe somewhere or not.
Like you know, for example, I've traveled to regional New
South Wales recently, and you know, when you're just traveling
through places and you can just like feel it within yourself,
like someone's like, murders have definitely happened here. I'm definitely
(06:03):
you know, I definitely don't want to be pulled over.
I definitely don't want to be young with anyone at
the shop Black. It's it's definitely feel and I have
felt that way around Rockhampton before. I will say, but
I also have the knowledge that, you know, some bad
things have happened in those general regions, But it's also
the same as walking through Brisbane City. You know that
(06:23):
things have happened there, but I feel like that that feeling.
I don't know if you've been to Sydney yet, but
that feeling in Sydney is black blows it right out
of the water.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
You can definitely feel that energy. But yeah, like would.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
You find did you find many stereotypes or misconceptions particularly
out in that regional area, and like how did you
like navigate that before you.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Moved to Brisbane. Yeah, I kind of.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
I think the way that I sort of processed those
stereotypes was to internalize it in a way that I
didn't even quite realize was like a form of internalized
racism almost, Like I kind of trivialized it. And when
people would make racist comments, I and always disguised as
(07:10):
like a joke, and you know, usually not at my expense,
but when it was they you know, they were always joking.
And so I kind of learned this this defense mechanism
just to sort of laugh it off because I thought
that if I was in on the joke and I
was no longer the butt.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
And yeah, and I think my moving.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
To Brisbane was definitely a process of I'm learning like
as as you know, cliches it sounds, I'm learning that
internalized racism. I'm learning that sort of I don't know that,
that defense mechanism and replacing it with a kind of
staunchness being like, well, you know, I don't think I
don't know why you think you can get away with
(07:56):
making comments like that, whether.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
They are around me or not around me.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
You know, there's no room for that sort of these
stereotypes to exist anymore.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Yeah. Absolutely, Do you feel like by being in Brisbane
and other like metropolitan regions where where that attitude and
perspective I guess is more common that it is not
more common, that it is a rarity, Like have you
found that it's been a major influence in like that progression.
I suppose from having that all internal to bringing in outwards.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
I think so, I think, you know, it's kind of
funny because in Brisbane, obviously the attitudes were much more progressive.
I was also surrounded by a lot less of our mob,
you know, it was it was usually just a lot
more white people who were you know, very you know allies,
very like outwardly spoken, loud and proud allies for our mob,
(08:51):
but not actually being submerged in the mobs in and
around Brisbane as much as I was in Rockhampton, because
you know, I was going to high school with Deromble people.
I was, you know, going to events with Deromble people.
I was very much like surrounded all the time and
had people to talk to about it. I don't think
I had that especially, you know, like I said, I
(09:13):
moved to Brisbane for university. I you know, there were
some days when I was at university and looking around
and just being like, how many black fellows are actually
on this pervis right now?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
You know, Like how many.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
People could I go to that like would be able
to point me in the right direction to get in
contact with black fallows around here, and I just don't
think that was I don't know as much of a Yeah,
it was just I wasn't in proximity to it, which
was surreal, But I knew that it was a safer
(09:46):
space theoretically.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I just you know, wasn't seeing black fathers as much
as I was seeing them. Yeah, it definitely would have
been diluted. I guess the large just the pure size
of the city alone, I think does.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
That to a lot of different communities.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
But there also probably isn't really a central kind of
place where it's kind of well known, I suppose, like
who's who and who's where.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
But yeah, it's you sort of have to be in
the know.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And that's that's sometimes the trickiest part about moving to
different cities in general. And speaking of moving to the cities,
how have you found that attitude is change from Brisbane
to How are you feeling now in probably the most
progressive city in the country.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
I mean, I'm definitely definitely feeling that the attitudes, Like
you said, that instinct when you go to a place
and you kind of intuitively know that it's not a
safe space or like that, you know, you can't discuss
your identity as a Black follower in a way that
wouldn't be compromising with safety. I think for sure I
(10:55):
have felt completely comfortable all the time, which is reassuring definitely.
It's also like I'm so far away from my mob,
from my country, and so it's kind of unreconciling that
as well, sort of like realizing, you know, as much
as I do feel safe and comfortable here, it's not
my country, which you know, being back on country is
(11:18):
I'm sure for you as well. Like being in boxing,
like on the river is definitely a kind of a
spiritual experience, Like it is pretty empowering and sometimes maybe
I'm just a bit homesick, but sometimes they definitely feel
that disky.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Like it is.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I think sometimes when you're a bit younger and like
you think that everything needs your attention now and that
you're in a rush. I think that place is probably
the only place that gets me to slow down and
to be present and to be.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
The absolute core of myself. So yeah, I definitely know
what you mean.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And by like, I've only recently kind of done my
pilgrimage around the country and in different places, but yeah,
I found home is There's there's been no no substitute,
but we obviously miss you and we're excited to have
you back whenever you're ready to come back. But like
it will, it's also always going to be here, and
that's the beauty of it. Like it's been here for
(12:17):
sixty thousand years and it's going to stay for another
sixty thousand years, hopefully if we don't ruin the planet.
But you know, country is always going to be there
for you, and you'll find that it's it's within you
as well, no matter where you go.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
But a little trick. Our amazing granddad once said to me.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
We were out in the boat one day and he said,
you know, whenever you touch the salt water, no matter
where you are, you know you're connected to home. It's
the same water that we're on right now. And I
always think about that whenever i'm away. That is so
Grandad as well.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I love.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, I also took that as a reason to get
a wave tatoo, but we're going to put that on
my twenty.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
One year old brain.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
But but other than that, yeah, I think it's it's
a good It's actually it's just a good young for
the order.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
All the sot water up who are in the.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Beyond country to know that you, yeah, get out in
the sand where if you are near it and lucky
to be near it. Yeah, knowing that you're yeah, connected
to home, connection to that water always what I was wondering, Nate.
You know, being queer black fellows, we have we wear
multiple hats. You from a biracial family as well as
I am. That's something that you know, we navigate really differently,
(13:32):
and like it's it's really interesting the contrast of you know,
skin coloring. Without going too heavy into this, but like
we both have you know, Caucasian fathers and black mothers
and your family. Somehow, I think the printer had all
the ink and then in my family, yeah, the melanin didn't.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Really hit as hard.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
But yeah, it's but luckily, I suppose where I grew
up versus where you grew up, we had completely different
experiences within by navigating that world. Like I grew up
somewhat on country in some years of my life I
was here, but yeah, in rock Campton obviously that wasn't
(14:15):
you know, where all our cousins are and where people
you know in community know you super well.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
You sort of had to do that work to get
to them.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
But what was that, Like, I guess navigating the multiple
hats and I guess the intersectionality that is your identity.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
How did you find ways.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
To navigate and get to a point where you could
really embrace that?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Yeah, well I think it's it's kind of funny because, yeah,
like you said, I do I have darker skin, but
I think I inherited a lot of my dad's features,
So I like, have you know, kind of Eurocentric facial features,
which kind of makes me racially ambiguous. So it's not
I don't I don't think by no means white passing,
(14:59):
but you know, it definitely put me in situations where
people didn't immediately clock that I was indigenous, and so
maybe felt comfortable saying things that they wouldn't otherwise saying
if they had no.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
What did you often get? Like, so what do people
think you?
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Like? What ethical origin did people think you had? If
it wasn't ab I've gotten everything under the sun.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Most of the time it's Middle East, and it was
Indian a lot when I was younger, people have guessed
Italian Egyptians. Yeah, so a whole range of incorrect Nobody
ever guesses indigenous guys frustrated. Actually, in university, in like
(15:46):
one of my so sociology courses, we were sitting in
a class discussing I don't know, probably Latin rights or something,
and one of the guys in the group was like, well,
none of us is indigenous, so you can't really talk
about it. I was like, well, well actually, and so yeah,
it's just that conversation over and over. Yeah, I think
(16:07):
I think my mom and your mom sort of share
this common traite. Well, actually, no, your mom is more
diligent with and more passionate about researching our family's history
and our lineage, whereas my mom has always just sort
of had this attitude that like, we're black and it
doesn't matter you know, like where our how far our
(16:29):
roots extend, or in what direction or we need to
know is that we're black. So my dad actually put
in a lot of leg work when we were younger
to sort of trace back our family history. And so
that's where I kind of which is like funny to say.
Obviously I could always talk to you know, our grandparents
or our relatives to find out more about our mob,
(16:51):
but yeah, I definitely depended on my dad to sort
of educate us about you know, our background points, which
is kind of yeah, funny.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
It is, but we're also really lucky that it has
been preserved historically in a way that it is accessible,
which I feel like, yeah, we're like really lucky in
you know, across the country, there's so many hundreds or
thousands of mobs and language and culture and history, and yeah,
we're really lucky that our language can be learned on
(17:23):
an app and that.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
We have so much detailed historical records.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
But that is also because of the colonization that's happened
in this region.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And yeah, like it's it's quite special.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
I'm going to ask you about because we're all coming
up black and the name kind of termed from something
that Mitika and I both have to do being I
guess white passing stereotypically, and we used to be kind
of more straight passing back when we launched this podcast
about five years ago. The one thing that we did,
it did have to do a lot, was kind of
come out, for lack of a better term, as black
(18:00):
in those environments where people do not think that you
are or as part of the LGBTQI community, when people
don't think you are as well, do you have like
a fond memory of like maybe the first time you
had to come out as a First Nations person in
an environment where well, yeah, let me let me rephrase it.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Do you have Yeah, do you have like was.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Your first memory of coming out, you know, as black
in an environment where you sort of needed to? Do
you have many like distinct memories of coming out in
that way.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
I think in terms of distinct memories, I think it's
sort of just like I said, it just it has
become sort of just like a a repeated conversation, like
just used to. I can almost anticipate when someone is like,
you know it doesn't want to ask, oh, what's your background,
but they're of like talking around it, and so like,
(18:58):
you know, I will usually these days just you know,
mention it.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Offhand so that everybody you know is aware.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
But I think some of the most exciting times are
when I, you know, reveal that I am Indigenous and
people ask, you know, who my mob is. And then
I remember one time this girl that I met at
a party, actually she was like, oh, I actually grew
up on Gubby Gubby Country and we just really bonded
(19:26):
over that. And she was said, you know, like even
though she wasn't indigenous, she grew up on a property,
and she sort of just understood. She was like, that
country really nurtured me, and I know that your mob
nurtured that country at one point. And she said, so
I feel like, you know, there's that cyclical nature of
(19:47):
just like reciprocity, I guess, or just like looking after
one another. And I think that was like a very
because you know, a lot of our solidarity with our
mob is through connections, throughmmunity, and I think bonding with
community in that way is sort of just like how
does the country bring us together? Yeah, and you know,
(20:08):
for that one person, it really bring us really close.
So yeah, that was that was really a moment that
I was really grateful for, you know, starting that conversation,
because otherwise we wouldn't have reached that point.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
It's beautiful and it's really good to hear a positive story.
You know, sometimes a lot of a lot of us
in these who identify in this way usually have a
lot of negative coming out stories, both you know, to
do with homophobia and racism. So it is really good
to hear a story that makes you feel happy. I
suppose and hope and hopeful that this country is moving towards,
(20:47):
you know, direction where that will become more common. I really,
I really really hope that mm hmm. Speaking of this country,
I thought I would check in with you. How you're
feeling post our national embarrassment of a day last month.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
How have you felt the community at large? What are
the what are the feelings out there at the moment.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Well, I think you know, for me personally, and I'm
sure for you as well, it's always been a point
of initially anxiety. Obviously we've never celebrated this day, and
then just in the lead up to the day itself,
you can kind of anticipate the conversations that are going
to happen, and you can kind of you kind of
(21:31):
recognize that like it's going to unless a response in you,
whether that response is welcome or not. Sometimes it's anger,
sometimes it's anxiety. A lot of the times for me
it was anxiety. But the more years that go on
and on and the more that I attend Invasion Day rallies,
which I have since leaving Rockhampton, but every year progressively
(21:56):
the rallies get bigger, this year being at the Melbourne rally,
and I'm I'm not sure what the turnout was like
at the Brisbane rally. I'm sure it was huge, but
it definitely I was just it kind of clicked for
me that you know, there is this ritual where like
our mob come together every day, you know, every year
on this day, brief together, five together, you know, stand
(22:20):
alongside each other. And so it has instead become a
point of power, and I think for non Indigenous people
the day has kind of I was reading this piece
from newy Kugori.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I'm not sure if you're sorry.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
She wrote a piece for Kraiki about how Black Fellows
have successfully made the day cringe for anybody that celebrates it.
I think even you know, white follows when they celebrate it.
I'm like, surely this doesn't hit the same for you
and it did ten years ago. Surely, Like there's a
weird tension where you're like, oh, people that kind of
(22:53):
pissed at us for celebrating this day now and you know, good,
like you should be feeling embarrassed about celebrating that shit.
It's like, you know, it should be cringing for you
because it has always been cringing for us exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
And I thinel like it's it's moving towards the way
that we feel. I think is a country about like
American patriotism, like I think the whole most of Australia.
I think there's just kind of a societal when you see,
like America, like the whole stars and stripes and eagle
(23:29):
and like redneck, muscular like patriotism vibes that usually are
entangled with you know, neo Nazi and far right Donald
Trump tripe stuff. But I think even they trying to
have a look at themselves as a country, and I
think the way that I think Australia kind of sees
(23:50):
how gross that is, I think that's starting to have
a bit of a turn in this country as well,
which is which is really.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Good and I love that term like it is I
think to celebrate it.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Yeah, I think like and even you know will worst
Like the whole debacle with them not selling Australia Emerge
is a whole other kettle of fish. Like obviously that's
an economic, financial, corporate decision that they've made does nothing
for Black Follows, But at the same time, it's just
(24:23):
so funny watching White Follows freak out about it and
think that it's like the you know, the decline of
the nation, like the national patriotism is, you know, in
jeopardy or whatever because a grocery store isn't selling them.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Society, white fragility is showing, and it's showing hard, and
people are so scared of something they don't they don't know.
But the white fragility is strong, and I think the
more people understand that, they're recognizing it. I think even
you know, like white follows are recognizing that within their
own community as well and calling it out, which has
(25:02):
been probably one of the one of the best things
I think to come of this god forsaken debate that
happens every year, is seeing the turn and I don't
think we're that many years off it actually moving or
some kind of action happening, which is Yeah, it gives
me a little bit of hope that we will continue
to progress despite the referendum, despite the increase of racism.
(25:26):
I think in some ways people are people are realizing like,
I actually don't align with this, I don't align with
what this politician saying.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I don't align with this.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Type of behavior totally, you know, But you know, a
lot of a lot of that is to do with
the media and the way that we tell stories and
generational echoing. And you and I come from, you know,
a family that talk and talk and talk, and you know,
I think we've got the matriarchs of you know, our
(25:56):
grandmother and mothers that you know, are in the phone
every second day, updating each other about, you know, whatever's
happening in life. So I think we've got a long
line of news sharing and storytelling that has shaped I
think some of what we both want to do with
our time and our careers. And you, more specifically, you've
(26:16):
gone and done journalism and studied politics, and how do
you think you want to leave your mark on the
world in the time that you've got and the skill
sets that you have.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Yeah, well, you know, I've always, you know, sort of
come from a place where I've recognized that indigenous stories
need to be told by an indigenous perspective.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Our history has.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Long been recorded by colonizers, and so the process of
decolonization is retelling those stories through an indigenous lens. And
so it's I did initially study politics because I, in
my you know, naivity, thought that indigenous affairs could be
(27:03):
could effectively be addressed through a political platform, through a
top down approach.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
But it's just it's just never going to happen.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
It's never going to happen from colony designed to preserve itself,
from a government preserved designed to preserve itself. So I've
always been Yeah, I think since that realization, I've always
been looking for ways to you know, direct the narrative.
And I think that journalism sort of allows me to,
you know, ideally, hopefully it'll give me a platform where
(27:33):
I can tell other Indigenous people's stories through an Indigenous lens.
And yeah, I think that is very much needed, not
just for representation's sake, but like you said, we grew
up with our the matriarchs of our family passing down
usually gossip, but you know, sometimes important, important lessons, and
(27:57):
that is a tradition that has dated back thousands of years.
You know, storytelling has by and large been our mob's
form of education as well as like historical record keeping,
which you know, I think by continuing to tell the stories,
we're sort of keeping that facet of our culture.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Alike in contemporary mechanisms in ways like it's continuing our
somewhats and in just a different in a different form,
it's continuing our culture even if they are just stories
about you know what black others are doing, it all,
it all fits, and I think as ya, as time
goes on, hopefully the way that you feel about change
(28:39):
in this country might change, hopefully from a political landscape.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
But we all have a role to play, you know,
like the.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Media have such a role in influencing the country and
influencing the people in this country around or informing them firstly,
but it also does influence and we need strong, authentic,
honest stories and an infant So I'm glad that we
have people like you writing them for us and sharing
(29:05):
them and continuing on, you know, for our mob. But
before I let you go in, I wanted to want
to ask you, I guess if you could think about
yourself as a fourteen fifteen, sixteen year old out rocky
for other mob about there that were like you at
that time, what advice would you give them, knowing what
(29:25):
you know now?
Speaker 4 (29:26):
Good question, I think, you know, I think just find
just trust your intuition. Like if, especially when it comes
to the people in your life you care about, if
you love them and they love you, and you feel
safe with them and you feel like you trust them,
then the chances are that that intuition is correct, and
you should be able to, you know, talk about your
(29:48):
identity in a way that is empowering and shouldn't be
a point of shame.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
I think I wish I knew that that, you know,
there were people around me who did have genuine anual love.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
And space for me and we're ready to listen.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
But I just wasn't ready to speak about it until
I did.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
And that's okay too.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
And it's it's time, and you know, if it's some
I guess in regional areas, it's it's also okay to
to wait, as long as it's not detrimental.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, Like that's some that's some really good advice,
you know.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
And I was wondering, you know, as queer black cothers,
you know, we navigate the world so so differently to
other mob and to other people and other queer people.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
It is just such a unique kind of intersection.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And I feel really lucky in some ways that I
have this I guess, unique experience of life that maybe
others don't get to have. And it has its positives,
it has its negatives, but the one kind of overwhelming
feeling is like luck and appreciation, and I almost feel
you know, no, I definitely do feel I feel really
(30:57):
lucky that Nate like that we you and I get
to kind of experiences together within our own I guess smaller.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
You know, family or community. What do you think like
the future is for us?
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Like do you in terms of the way that we're
understood and discussed and seeing you know, in the country,
what do you hope the future is for us?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Mob And what do you think the country?
Speaker 3 (31:19):
What would you like the country just to do to
I suppose make it easier for us in the way
that we navigate the colony.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Well, I would say, like I my hope is that
queer black fellows given the space to form their own communities.
You know, I know historically queer people form communities together
black fellows obviously, you know, our culture is forming communities.
But I think it's important that non indigenous queer people
(31:47):
recognize that there needs to be space for queer indigenous
people or queer people of color to form their own
communities because you know, and I am so great to
have you as well, because we really didn't have any
queer indigenous elders in our family.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Just sort of pay the way yeah, you know, pay
the way.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
But our generation is going to be those queer elders
or you know, an emerging generation of young black fellows.
So I think, yeah, it's important that now, it's a
really important time to plant those routes, to form those
communities and pave the way for the next generation.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
And Nate, thank you so much for coming on and
you know, being a part of this conversation and helping,
you know, helping share our stories far and wide. And yeah,
like many others, I think we're all we're all rooting
for you and what we hope to share your share
your pieces and share your stories and yeah, just watch
(32:53):
your flourish and yeah, become further of the amazing personation.
So all the best, my cousins, And also, where can
our listeners find you.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
I don't really have a huge social media presence, but
I'm at a Nate dot vv on Instagram where I
usually share some of my pieces.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Find me there. All right, thank you so much again,
thanks for having.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Me, Thanks for listening to another episode of Coming Out Black.
You can find us at coming Out Black blak on Instagram, Facebook,
and any way you.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
We would love it if you could give us a
five star review and give us your feedback as it
helps other people find the podcast. If you have a
story to tell, please reach out to us on Facebook
or Instagram.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
We would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
This episode is brought to you by the Blackcast Network
and produced by Clink Purtis
Hi, I'm Mateka and I'm Courtney, and we're too queer
First Nations women passionate about representation for our community. We
created this podcast to share our stories. We want you
to join us on the journey.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
You're listening to Coming Out Black. Welcome back to Coming
Out Black. Today's episode.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
We are very lucky to be joined by the incredible
Nate Woodle. He is my cousin and the best person
I know. Nathan, Welcome, Thanks for having me so much.
I'm excited to be doing this with you.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It's great to have you.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
And this is a bit weird actually to record an
episode with someone you know pretty much your whole life,
Like I've known you since you were in diapers and
probably the same for you. And you know how much
of a dork that I am so trying to do
cool stuff while you knowing secretly that I'm not this cool.
It's kind of funny. But thank you again so much
for coming on. I mean, it's very much mutual. You know,
(00:57):
we've seen both the most critical moments.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Of each other, so you know there's no judgement here
completely say spacespletally.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Now that I think about it, it stems back to
those performances. Our mothers and aunties and grandparents make us
put on. Like someone asked me before why I am
so comfortable doing public speaking, And I think it's because
I lost my dignity at about like seven, when we
were performing, you know, the Spice girls in front of
all of our very distant relatives, you know. But I
(01:27):
do know the dance of my heart, and I do
recall at that same event, Nate, I don't remember if
you did a performance, but you were performing.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
I did, yeah, in a wig, I believe, which was
my first taste of drag, but definitely not my last.
But yeah, I think that like voluntary public humiliation kind
of I guess planted a seed in both of us
to put ourselves out in public more often than embarrass ourselves.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I think maybe it's like the false sense of like
security in a way that like people will applaud us,
maybe just because we're just used to that, like having
our family just like, wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Get up. Definitely.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
I mean, our aunties and uncles were definitely eating it up,
been sharing us on. But I didn't think the broader
public would have thought that our performances.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, what if they think about us, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, so Nate, tell us your story. Who are you,
who's your mob? Where are you from?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:21):
So, well my mom is your mom, Gubby Gubby Butler.
But I was born and raised in Rockhampton on the
Rumble Country before moving to Brisbane for university and then
I lived there for about six or seven years and
finally here in Melbourne.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
As a journalist. And yeah, that's the short and long
of it, I guess.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
And coming from the Rutnas Tutna's town in the country,
what was it like growing up in Rockhampton? And I
also don't think I asked you before, but how do
you identify as part.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Of the community. Well, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I think people have a lot of preconceptions about regional
Queensland being a trench for Queer people, and it very
much was, you know. At it's difficult to fully express
myself as I wanted to, but I think I was
very fortunate in that I had a safety net being
my family, who were, you know, ready to accept me
(03:17):
however I wanted to present myself. And then I also
just had a fortunate upbringing in the sense that I
had a good friendship group. But yeah, it was definitely
navigating both my sexuality and my identity as an Indigenous
person in a town that was not, you know, Rockampton,
I think voted twenty percent yes in the referendum for perspective,
(03:39):
so that it's kind of like, I don't think it
is necessarily a safe space, but at the same time,
I think, I, yeah, I was just blessed to have
a good support network around me.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, I don't know if that answered your question.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
And I guess like it would be tough to probably
hear those results given that you did feel there was
some safety. Do you feel like that result has impacted
the way that you think about home?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I mean, you know, like I said, I was born
and raised there, so for the large majority of my
life so far, I was surrounded by people who I
just kind of knew and loved and expected that love
and appreciation and respect to be reciprocated. But that result
kind of told me, well, maybe a lot of the
(04:29):
people that you know, I respected and looked up to,
maybe they didn't actually reciprocate that respect after all. And
it was very it was a very grounding moment, and
I think the whole nation kind of felt that, I know, definitely,
like a lot of our mob felt that, especially the
mob who were expecting a yes outcome, But it was
(04:51):
kind of a slap in the face.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I mean, I know a lot.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Of our mob weren't surprised, and maybe I should have
kind of expected that result from a place that is,
you know, so far removed from you know, the capital
cities or the places where the yes outcome was the majority,
but it was still. Yeah, I don't know, it was
definitely humbling, I think definitely, or maybe not humbling, but
(05:17):
but you know what I mean, it was grounding.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
It was yeah, sort more like a reality check in
a way, like it's very easy to feel safe in
your bubble, particularly in metropolitan areas or other areas where
you can just feel that that diversity is championed, for
lack of a better term, or just that you feel safe.
(05:40):
I think sometimes as black Feathers, as we navigate ourselves
around around the country, you sort of almost had like
an innate feeling within yourself whether you're safe somewhere or not.
Like you know, for example, I've traveled to regional New
South Wales recently, and you know, when you're just traveling
through places and you can just like feel it within yourself,
like someone's like, murders have definitely happened here. I'm definitely
(06:03):
you know, I definitely don't want to be pulled over.
I definitely don't want to be young with anyone at
the shop Black. It's it's definitely feel and I have
felt that way around Rockhampton before. I will say, but
I also have the knowledge that, you know, some bad
things have happened in those general regions, But it's also
the same as walking through Brisbane City. You know that
(06:23):
things have happened there, but I feel like that that feeling.
I don't know if you've been to Sydney yet, but
that feeling in Sydney is black blows it right out
of the water.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
You can definitely feel that energy. But yeah, like would.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
You find did you find many stereotypes or misconceptions particularly
out in that regional area, and like how did you
like navigate that before you.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Moved to Brisbane. Yeah, I kind of.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
I think the way that I sort of processed those
stereotypes was to internalize it in a way that I
didn't even quite realize was like a form of internalized
racism almost, Like I kind of trivialized it. And when
people would make racist comments, I and always disguised as
(07:10):
like a joke, and you know, usually not at my expense,
but when it was they you know, they were always joking.
And so I kind of learned this this defense mechanism
just to sort of laugh it off because I thought
that if I was in on the joke and I
was no longer the butt.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
And yeah, and I think my moving.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
To Brisbane was definitely a process of I'm learning like
as as you know, cliches it sounds, I'm learning that
internalized racism. I'm learning that sort of I don't know that,
that defense mechanism and replacing it with a kind of
staunchness being like, well, you know, I don't think I
don't know why you think you can get away with
(07:56):
making comments like that, whether.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
They are around me or not around me.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
You know, there's no room for that sort of these
stereotypes to exist anymore.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Yeah. Absolutely, Do you feel like by being in Brisbane
and other like metropolitan regions where where that attitude and
perspective I guess is more common that it is not
more common, that it is a rarity, Like have you
found that it's been a major influence in like that progression.
I suppose from having that all internal to bringing in outwards.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
I think so, I think, you know, it's kind of
funny because in Brisbane, obviously the attitudes were much more progressive.
I was also surrounded by a lot less of our mob,
you know, it was it was usually just a lot
more white people who were you know, very you know allies,
very like outwardly spoken, loud and proud allies for our mob,
(08:51):
but not actually being submerged in the mobs in and
around Brisbane as much as I was in Rockhampton, because
you know, I was going to high school with Deromble people.
I was, you know, going to events with Deromble people.
I was very much like surrounded all the time and
had people to talk to about it. I don't think
I had that especially, you know, like I said, I
(09:13):
moved to Brisbane for university. I you know, there were
some days when I was at university and looking around
and just being like, how many black fellows are actually
on this pervis right now?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
You know, Like how many.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
People could I go to that like would be able
to point me in the right direction to get in
contact with black fallows around here, and I just don't
think that was I don't know as much of a Yeah,
it was just I wasn't in proximity to it, which
was surreal, But I knew that it was a safer
(09:46):
space theoretically.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I just you know, wasn't seeing black fathers as much
as I was seeing them. Yeah, it definitely would have
been diluted. I guess the large just the pure size
of the city alone, I think does.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
That to a lot of different communities.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
But there also probably isn't really a central kind of
place where it's kind of well known, I suppose, like
who's who and who's where.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
But yeah, it's you sort of have to be in
the know.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And that's that's sometimes the trickiest part about moving to
different cities in general. And speaking of moving to the cities,
how have you found that attitude is change from Brisbane
to How are you feeling now in probably the most
progressive city in the country.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
I mean, I'm definitely definitely feeling that the attitudes, Like
you said, that instinct when you go to a place
and you kind of intuitively know that it's not a
safe space or like that, you know, you can't discuss
your identity as a Black follower in a way that
wouldn't be compromising with safety. I think for sure I
(10:55):
have felt completely comfortable all the time, which is reassuring definitely.
It's also like I'm so far away from my mob,
from my country, and so it's kind of unreconciling that
as well, sort of like realizing, you know, as much
as I do feel safe and comfortable here, it's not
my country, which you know, being back on country is
(11:18):
I'm sure for you as well. Like being in boxing,
like on the river is definitely a kind of a
spiritual experience, Like it is pretty empowering and sometimes maybe
I'm just a bit homesick, but sometimes they definitely feel
that disky.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Like it is.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I think sometimes when you're a bit younger and like
you think that everything needs your attention now and that
you're in a rush. I think that place is probably
the only place that gets me to slow down and
to be present and to be.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
The absolute core of myself. So yeah, I definitely know
what you mean.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And by like, I've only recently kind of done my
pilgrimage around the country and in different places, but yeah,
I found home is There's there's been no no substitute,
but we obviously miss you and we're excited to have
you back whenever you're ready to come back. But like
it will, it's also always going to be here, and
that's the beauty of it. Like it's been here for
(12:17):
sixty thousand years and it's going to stay for another
sixty thousand years, hopefully if we don't ruin the planet.
But you know, country is always going to be there
for you, and you'll find that it's it's within you
as well, no matter where you go.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
But a little trick. Our amazing granddad once said to me.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
We were out in the boat one day and he said,
you know, whenever you touch the salt water, no matter
where you are, you know you're connected to home. It's
the same water that we're on right now. And I
always think about that whenever i'm away. That is so
Grandad as well.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I love.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, I also took that as a reason to get
a wave tatoo, but we're going to put that on
my twenty.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
One year old brain.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
But but other than that, yeah, I think it's it's
a good It's actually it's just a good young for
the order.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
All the sot water up who are in the.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Beyond country to know that you, yeah, get out in
the sand where if you are near it and lucky
to be near it. Yeah, knowing that you're yeah, connected
to home, connection to that water always what I was wondering, Nate.
You know, being queer black fellows, we have we wear
multiple hats. You from a biracial family as well as
I am. That's something that you know, we navigate really differently,
(13:32):
and like it's it's really interesting the contrast of you know,
skin coloring. Without going too heavy into this, but like
we both have you know, Caucasian fathers and black mothers
and your family. Somehow, I think the printer had all
the ink and then in my family, yeah, the melanin didn't.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Really hit as hard.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
But yeah, it's but luckily, I suppose where I grew
up versus where you grew up, we had completely different
experiences within by navigating that world. Like I grew up
somewhat on country in some years of my life I
was here, but yeah, in rock Campton obviously that wasn't
(14:15):
you know, where all our cousins are and where people
you know in community know you super well.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
You sort of had to do that work to get
to them.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
But what was that, Like, I guess navigating the multiple
hats and I guess the intersectionality that is your identity.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
How did you find ways.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
To navigate and get to a point where you could
really embrace that?
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Yeah, well I think it's it's kind of funny because, yeah,
like you said, I do I have darker skin, but
I think I inherited a lot of my dad's features,
So I like, have you know, kind of Eurocentric facial features,
which kind of makes me racially ambiguous. So it's not
I don't I don't think by no means white passing,
(14:59):
but you know, it definitely put me in situations where
people didn't immediately clock that I was indigenous, and so
maybe felt comfortable saying things that they wouldn't otherwise saying
if they had no.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
What did you often get? Like, so what do people
think you?
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Like? What ethical origin did people think you had? If
it wasn't ab I've gotten everything under the sun.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Most of the time it's Middle East, and it was
Indian a lot when I was younger, people have guessed
Italian Egyptians. Yeah, so a whole range of incorrect Nobody
ever guesses indigenous guys frustrated. Actually, in university, in like
(15:46):
one of my so sociology courses, we were sitting in
a class discussing I don't know, probably Latin rights or something,
and one of the guys in the group was like, well,
none of us is indigenous, so you can't really talk
about it. I was like, well, well actually, and so yeah,
it's just that conversation over and over. Yeah, I think
(16:07):
I think my mom and your mom sort of share
this common traite. Well, actually, no, your mom is more
diligent with and more passionate about researching our family's history
and our lineage, whereas my mom has always just sort
of had this attitude that like, we're black and it
doesn't matter you know, like where our how far our
(16:29):
roots extend, or in what direction or we need to
know is that we're black. So my dad actually put
in a lot of leg work when we were younger
to sort of trace back our family history. And so
that's where I kind of which is like funny to say.
Obviously I could always talk to you know, our grandparents
or our relatives to find out more about our mob,
(16:51):
but yeah, I definitely depended on my dad to sort
of educate us about you know, our background points, which
is kind of yeah, funny.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
It is, but we're also really lucky that it has
been preserved historically in a way that it is accessible,
which I feel like, yeah, we're like really lucky in
you know, across the country, there's so many hundreds or
thousands of mobs and language and culture and history, and yeah,
we're really lucky that our language can be learned on
(17:23):
an app and that.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
We have so much detailed historical records.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
But that is also because of the colonization that's happened
in this region.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
And yeah, like it's it's quite special.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
I'm going to ask you about because we're all coming
up black and the name kind of termed from something
that Mitika and I both have to do being I
guess white passing stereotypically, and we used to be kind
of more straight passing back when we launched this podcast
about five years ago. The one thing that we did,
it did have to do a lot, was kind of
come out, for lack of a better term, as black
(18:00):
in those environments where people do not think that you
are or as part of the LGBTQI community, when people
don't think you are as well, do you have like
a fond memory of like maybe the first time you
had to come out as a First Nations person in
an environment where well, yeah, let me let me rephrase it.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Do you have Yeah, do you have like was.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Your first memory of coming out, you know, as black
in an environment where you sort of needed to? Do
you have many like distinct memories of coming out in
that way.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
I think in terms of distinct memories, I think it's
sort of just like I said, it just it has
become sort of just like a a repeated conversation, like
just used to. I can almost anticipate when someone is like,
you know it doesn't want to ask, oh, what's your background,
but they're of like talking around it, and so like,
(18:58):
you know, I will usually these days just you know,
mention it.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Offhand so that everybody you know is aware.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
But I think some of the most exciting times are
when I, you know, reveal that I am Indigenous and
people ask, you know, who my mob is. And then
I remember one time this girl that I met at
a party, actually she was like, oh, I actually grew
up on Gubby Gubby Country and we just really bonded
(19:26):
over that. And she was said, you know, like even
though she wasn't indigenous, she grew up on a property,
and she sort of just understood. She was like, that
country really nurtured me, and I know that your mob
nurtured that country at one point. And she said, so
I feel like, you know, there's that cyclical nature of
(19:47):
just like reciprocity, I guess, or just like looking after
one another. And I think that was like a very
because you know, a lot of our solidarity with our
mob is through connections, throughmmunity, and I think bonding with
community in that way is sort of just like how
does the country bring us together? Yeah, and you know,
(20:08):
for that one person, it really bring us really close.
So yeah, that was that was really a moment that
I was really grateful for, you know, starting that conversation,
because otherwise we wouldn't have reached that point.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
It's beautiful and it's really good to hear a positive story.
You know, sometimes a lot of a lot of us
in these who identify in this way usually have a
lot of negative coming out stories, both you know, to
do with homophobia and racism. So it is really good
to hear a story that makes you feel happy. I
suppose and hope and hopeful that this country is moving towards,
(20:47):
you know, direction where that will become more common. I really,
I really really hope that mm hmm. Speaking of this country,
I thought I would check in with you. How you're
feeling post our national embarrassment of a day last month.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
How have you felt the community at large? What are
the what are the feelings out there at the moment.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Well, I think you know, for me personally, and I'm
sure for you as well, it's always been a point
of initially anxiety. Obviously we've never celebrated this day, and
then just in the lead up to the day itself,
you can kind of anticipate the conversations that are going
to happen, and you can kind of you kind of
(21:31):
recognize that like it's going to unless a response in you,
whether that response is welcome or not. Sometimes it's anger,
sometimes it's anxiety. A lot of the times for me
it was anxiety. But the more years that go on
and on and the more that I attend Invasion Day rallies,
which I have since leaving Rockhampton, but every year progressively
(21:56):
the rallies get bigger, this year being at the Melbourne rally,
and I'm I'm not sure what the turnout was like
at the Brisbane rally. I'm sure it was huge, but
it definitely I was just it kind of clicked for
me that you know, there is this ritual where like
our mob come together every day, you know, every year
on this day, brief together, five together, you know, stand
(22:20):
alongside each other. And so it has instead become a
point of power, and I think for non Indigenous people
the day has kind of I was reading this piece
from newy Kugori.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I'm not sure if you're sorry.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
She wrote a piece for Kraiki about how Black Fellows
have successfully made the day cringe for anybody that celebrates it.
I think even you know, white follows when they celebrate it.
I'm like, surely this doesn't hit the same for you
and it did ten years ago. Surely, Like there's a
weird tension where you're like, oh, people that kind of
(22:53):
pissed at us for celebrating this day now and you know, good,
like you should be feeling embarrassed about celebrating that shit.
It's like, you know, it should be cringing for you
because it has always been cringing for us exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
And I thinel like it's it's moving towards the way
that we feel. I think is a country about like
American patriotism, like I think the whole most of Australia.
I think there's just kind of a societal when you see,
like America, like the whole stars and stripes and eagle
(23:29):
and like redneck, muscular like patriotism vibes that usually are
entangled with you know, neo Nazi and far right Donald
Trump tripe stuff. But I think even they trying to
have a look at themselves as a country, and I
think the way that I think Australia kind of sees
(23:50):
how gross that is, I think that's starting to have
a bit of a turn in this country as well,
which is which is really.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Good and I love that term like it is I
think to celebrate it.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Yeah, I think like and even you know will worst
Like the whole debacle with them not selling Australia Emerge
is a whole other kettle of fish. Like obviously that's
an economic, financial, corporate decision that they've made does nothing
for Black Follows, But at the same time, it's just
(24:23):
so funny watching White Follows freak out about it and
think that it's like the you know, the decline of
the nation, like the national patriotism is, you know, in
jeopardy or whatever because a grocery store isn't selling them.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Society, white fragility is showing, and it's showing hard, and
people are so scared of something they don't they don't know.
But the white fragility is strong, and I think the
more people understand that, they're recognizing it. I think even
you know, like white follows are recognizing that within their
own community as well and calling it out, which has
(25:02):
been probably one of the one of the best things
I think to come of this god forsaken debate that
happens every year, is seeing the turn and I don't
think we're that many years off it actually moving or
some kind of action happening, which is Yeah, it gives
me a little bit of hope that we will continue
to progress despite the referendum, despite the increase of racism.
(25:26):
I think in some ways people are people are realizing like,
I actually don't align with this, I don't align with
what this politician saying.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I don't align with this.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Type of behavior totally, you know, But you know, a
lot of a lot of that is to do with
the media and the way that we tell stories and
generational echoing. And you and I come from, you know,
a family that talk and talk and talk, and you know,
I think we've got the matriarchs of you know, our
(25:56):
grandmother and mothers that you know, are in the phone
every second day, updating each other about, you know, whatever's
happening in life. So I think we've got a long
line of news sharing and storytelling that has shaped I
think some of what we both want to do with
our time and our careers. And you, more specifically, you've
(26:16):
gone and done journalism and studied politics, and how do
you think you want to leave your mark on the
world in the time that you've got and the skill
sets that you have.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Yeah, well, you know, I've always, you know, sort of
come from a place where I've recognized that indigenous stories
need to be told by an indigenous perspective.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Our history has.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Long been recorded by colonizers, and so the process of
decolonization is retelling those stories through an indigenous lens. And
so it's I did initially study politics because I, in
my you know, naivity, thought that indigenous affairs could be
(27:03):
could effectively be addressed through a political platform, through a
top down approach.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
But it's just it's just never going to happen.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
It's never going to happen from colony designed to preserve itself,
from a government preserved designed to preserve itself. So I've
always been Yeah, I think since that realization, I've always
been looking for ways to you know, direct the narrative.
And I think that journalism sort of allows me to,
you know, ideally, hopefully it'll give me a platform where
(27:33):
I can tell other Indigenous people's stories through an Indigenous lens.
And yeah, I think that is very much needed, not
just for representation's sake, but like you said, we grew
up with our the matriarchs of our family passing down
usually gossip, but you know, sometimes important, important lessons, and
(27:57):
that is a tradition that has dated back thousands of years.
You know, storytelling has by and large been our mob's
form of education as well as like historical record keeping,
which you know, I think by continuing to tell the stories,
we're sort of keeping that facet of our culture.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Alike in contemporary mechanisms in ways like it's continuing our
somewhats and in just a different in a different form,
it's continuing our culture even if they are just stories
about you know what black others are doing, it all,
it all fits, and I think as ya, as time
goes on, hopefully the way that you feel about change
(28:39):
in this country might change, hopefully from a political landscape.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
But we all have a role to play, you know,
like the.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Media have such a role in influencing the country and
influencing the people in this country around or informing them firstly,
but it also does influence and we need strong, authentic,
honest stories and an infant So I'm glad that we
have people like you writing them for us and sharing
(29:05):
them and continuing on, you know, for our mob. But
before I let you go in, I wanted to want
to ask you, I guess if you could think about
yourself as a fourteen fifteen, sixteen year old out rocky
for other mob about there that were like you at
that time, what advice would you give them, knowing what
(29:25):
you know now?
Speaker 4 (29:26):
Good question, I think, you know, I think just find
just trust your intuition. Like if, especially when it comes
to the people in your life you care about, if
you love them and they love you, and you feel
safe with them and you feel like you trust them,
then the chances are that that intuition is correct, and
you should be able to, you know, talk about your
(29:48):
identity in a way that is empowering and shouldn't be
a point of shame.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
I think I wish I knew that that, you know,
there were people around me who did have genuine anual love.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
And space for me and we're ready to listen.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
But I just wasn't ready to speak about it until
I did.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
And that's okay too.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
And it's it's time, and you know, if it's some
I guess in regional areas, it's it's also okay to
to wait, as long as it's not detrimental.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, Like that's some that's some really good advice,
you know.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
And I was wondering, you know, as queer black cothers,
you know, we navigate the world so so differently to
other mob and to other people and other queer people.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
It is just such a unique kind of intersection.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And I feel really lucky in some ways that I
have this I guess, unique experience of life that maybe
others don't get to have. And it has its positives,
it has its negatives, but the one kind of overwhelming
feeling is like luck and appreciation, and I almost feel
you know, no, I definitely do feel I feel really
(30:57):
lucky that Nate like that we you and I get
to kind of experiences together within our own I guess smaller.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
You know, family or community. What do you think like
the future is for us?
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Like do you in terms of the way that we're
understood and discussed and seeing you know, in the country,
what do you hope the future is for us?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Mob And what do you think the country?
Speaker 3 (31:19):
What would you like the country just to do to
I suppose make it easier for us in the way
that we navigate the colony.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Well, I would say, like I my hope is that
queer black fellows given the space to form their own communities.
You know, I know historically queer people form communities together
black fellows obviously, you know, our culture is forming communities.
But I think it's important that non indigenous queer people
(31:47):
recognize that there needs to be space for queer indigenous
people or queer people of color to form their own
communities because you know, and I am so great to
have you as well, because we really didn't have any
queer indigenous elders in our family.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Just sort of pay the way yeah, you know, pay
the way.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
But our generation is going to be those queer elders
or you know, an emerging generation of young black fellows.
So I think, yeah, it's important that now, it's a
really important time to plant those routes, to form those
communities and pave the way for the next generation.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
And Nate, thank you so much for coming on and
you know, being a part of this conversation and helping,
you know, helping share our stories far and wide. And yeah,
like many others, I think we're all we're all rooting
for you and what we hope to share your share
your pieces and share your stories and yeah, just watch
(32:53):
your flourish and yeah, become further of the amazing personation.
So all the best, my cousins, And also, where can
our listeners find you.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
I don't really have a huge social media presence, but
I'm at a Nate dot vv on Instagram where I
usually share some of my pieces.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Find me there. All right, thank you so much again,
thanks for having.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Me, Thanks for listening to another episode of Coming Out Black.
You can find us at coming Out Black blak on Instagram, Facebook,
and any way you.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
We would love it if you could give us a
five star review and give us your feedback as it
helps other people find the podcast. If you have a
story to tell, please reach out to us on Facebook
or Instagram.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
We would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
This episode is brought to you by the Blackcast Network
and produced by Clink Purtis
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Boysober
Have you ever wondered what life might be like if you stopped worrying about being wanted, and focused on understanding what you actually want? That was the question Hope Woodard asked herself after a string of situationships inspired her to take a break from sex and dating. She went "boysober," a personal concept that sparked a global movement among women looking to prioritize themselves over men. Now, Hope is looking to expand the ways we explore our relationship to relationships. Taking a bold, unfiltered look into modern love, romance, and self-discovery, Boysober will dive into messy stories about dating, sex, love, friendship, and breaking generational patterns—all with humor, vulnerability, and a fresh perspective.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com