February 13, 2024 • 25 mins
In this episode, Matika sits down with Angelica Rose Lockyer, a Genderqueer First Nations performer, to explore the depths of identity, the art of First Nations storytelling, and the anticipation surrounding their upcoming theatre show, 'Back to Birdy.' Through their candid conversation, they delve into Angelica's journey of understanding themselves, their identity and their reflections on Blak storytelling as a means of reclaiming and celebrating culture.
This episode is brought to you by BlakCast and produced by Clint Curtis.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm a Teka and I'm Courtney, and we're two queer
First Nations women passionate about representation for our community.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
We created this podcast to share our stories. We want
you to join us on the journey. You're listening to
Coming Out Black.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Coming Out Black. Today,
we have the Deadly Angelica Rose Lockyer with us. Angelica
is a gender queer, non binary First Nations performer from
the Pilper region.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
They use she, they, and heat pronouns and they're.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
A graduate of Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts. They've
performed in multiple stage and screen performances, way too many
for me to even list here, but notably they were
awarded Best Performance in the Vice Chancellor's Shakespeare Awards for
their performance and an expert of much Ado about Nothing,
which I think is so cool. We always love like
black deadly people getting the awards and the I guess
(00:59):
status that they just But it's so good to have
you here. I wanted to read out a little bit
of a spiel about you, but we always do, always
have the mob that come on talk a bit and
introduce themselves in their own words.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So tell us a bit about you. Who's your mob
and where you from? Yeah? Great, well that that all
sounds made me sound very impressive, you are, But yeah,
so I'm from a Pilbar region, specifically Port Headland, so
that's you know, Guttioada country. Uh, and I myself am
Gattiata as well as Yelama and Nil. You know, I've
(01:35):
also lived in Perth on Nounga. A little bit about myself. Well,
like it's been stated, I'm a performer. You know, I
love theater. I also love voice acting, which you know
I don't often have in my bio, but it is
something that I that is a passion of mine. I'm
new to Sydney. I'm very excited to have moved here
(01:59):
very recently. And I identify as gender queer or non
binary or even gender fluid. But I like to use
gender queer as like an umbrella term of like yeah,
I'm I'm queer, I'm uh and obviously yeah, I use
most pronouns ah, but yeah, the usual go tousa they
(02:23):
she he amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I guess for anyone listening in terms of when you
say gender queer, non binary, those labels for you, what
does that mean? For you, for anyone who might not
understand that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, great question. For me, I think it just means,
you know, growing up, obviously I didn't have the terminology
for it, but I didn't really I don't fully identify
as strictly a woman or I don't identify strictly as
a man. Ah. And I guess like that is you know,
(02:59):
the known in our society at least binary, and so
I guess with non binary, it's like, I'm not you know,
either of those things. And in terms of you know,
if I were to say I'm gender fluid, it's because honestly,
I just I don't know. Day to day, I can feel,
oh yeah, I feel a little very masculine or you know, feminine,
(03:20):
or and even not not fully knowing what that means,
like what masculinity or femininity is. It's more of just
a Honestly, I just kind of describe it as I'm Angelica,
and you know, it's it's whatever. It's like, yeah, it's
it's not. Yeah, I'm not. I appreciate the importance of
(03:43):
the constructive gender, and I appreciate what that means in
our society and what that means, you know, for people
culturally and and personally, But for my self, basically, I
just I'm not too fussed about it. I'm just me
love that for you.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Speaking of you moving to Sydney, I know that your
I guess jbut in performing here in Sydney is through
the theater performance of Back to Bertie, which I'm super
excited to have a chat with you about. I might
just read a bit of the I guess synopsis.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Is that what they call it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Absolutely, you know, you know theater terminology is pretty good. Okay,
here we go, I'll read it out. Sometimes the longest
friendships are the most complicated ones. Warren and Emily have
been best friends since high school, suffering together through shitty teachers,
coming out and failed relationships. Since Warren's transition, It's become
obvious that there are lots of things that are not
(04:41):
saying to each other taking place in the aftermath of
falling out between protagonists Warren and Emily. Back to Bertie
is a candid, humorous look at chasms and contradictions within
the queer community, how old friendships reshape around identity, politics,
and quick spaces, set against the backdrops of a lesbian,
queer G and C folk night bird Cage. The play
(05:02):
takes characters back to Birdie I e. Bird Cage through
a series of fluid flashbacks as they interact with their
younger selves. That sounds really fun. Yeah, and I have
been to bird get Actually I think I've only been twice.
But the one I remember was going to bird Cage
the night that gay marriage got past. Oh wow, there
(05:23):
was a Wednesday, and like that was the only thing
I've been to.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Like it was like packed. That sounds amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Because it's gonna be really fun to see sort of
how that is captured within the performance.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yes, I hope, I hope it feels authentic.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
What got you into like theater and performing and storytelling.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Well, that's always an interesting question because I think I think,
like a lot of people, it kind of starts in childhood.
I find kids. I think people are just born performers
and then they kind of choose to continue that or not.
Yeah that's Shakespeare quote, like all the world's yes. Yeah,
(06:04):
So when you know, I was a kid, and I
was you know, obviously very into like making up stories
and things like that and accents. But my real exposure
to live performance was through ballet. So I did that
from like the age of four, So like from four
(06:24):
to eleven, I was doing ballet, and that I think
really solidified, specifically live performance or performing in front of
an audience on stage, as something that I just really
really loved to do as well as you know the
classic I did drama in school and like things like that.
(06:44):
I didn't think of it as a profession or like
something that I could do for a living until I
was an adult. I think probably until I was doing
the Aboriginal Performance course at WHOPPA, the Western Australian Academy
of Performing Art. I it was then that I was like, oh,
I could do this as like my thing, as like
(07:06):
a main thing. Yeah exactly, and yeah, and so when
I did that, and then I when I went into
the you know, bachelor course at WHOPPER as well, I
knew that this was something that I would want to
do forever. Yeah, how long ago was that when you
first started? So I did the opisonal performance course in
(07:29):
twenty eighteen, and I graduated from the bachelor course in
twenty twenty one. So I've been in the you know,
in the professional industry since graduating for about you know
two years, Like still this my third year and I've been,
you know, fortunate enough to be in some really great projects. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Do you see parts of your own journey or or
of your self mirrored in the stories of these characters
that you're getting to sort of connect with?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah? With Warren, uh he I mean, he's definitely more
of like a guy's guy than I am. Okay, And
but I guess that relationship with with not really with
growing up without not knowing like the terminology and things
like that. And he he comes out, you know, later
(08:24):
in life or while he's in an adult which I
definitely relate to also. Uh. And with Emily I relate
to I guess more of her personality rather than her story.
I think she's very she's very outspoken and very uh. Well,
(08:45):
she can see the world a little bit black and
white sometimes, and that's something I've have related to which
I've worked on. And you know, I'm a bit more
the growing that she does. I relate to that growing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
When was your coming out experience of publicly letting people
know how you identify it?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, Well, I don't think I ever had. I guess
I never had like a formal or like a classic
kind of coming out in terms of to my family
or friends and things like that. I think probably my
a lot of the times where I've like come out
was through bios in projects that I was doing. Like
(09:29):
I did a short film in my final year of UNI,
and I was playing a non binary character for that
short film, and so in the bio of like the
you know, the marketing for that to let people know
to to fund it and things like that, it just
had in my bio like, yeah, Angelic is a queer,
but more so through work, you were able. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Oh, by the way, put this in my bio right exactly.
The people will just read it and they'll note exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I never had to do a lot of like face
to face kind of you know, this is this is
who I am and things like that, and as well
as like, you know, my Instagram bio is you know,
I've got my pronouns there. Uh yeah, I never did. Yeah,
I guess. And I never sat anyone down and explained
(10:16):
who I was. And I but I love that. Yeah,
I'm so glad you got to have that EXPERI I'm
very I'm happy that I you know that I feel
comfortable enough to do that. I know a lot of
people still like don't. And that's you know, and I
hope more and more like the younger generations is like
coming out can be whatever they want it to be
(10:39):
for them, Like if you want to do the kind
of uh, you know, celebration of it, or if you
want to do something where you're where you're sharing something
about yourself with people that you love and things like that,
I think that is beautiful. I just didn't for myself.
I just wasn't really me. I don't know if I'm
I don't know if I'm that earnest.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Did you like growing up when you look back and
you're like, oh, that was a gender queen moment, did
you have a lot of examples of queerness around you?
Like was that something you were even like you? Because
I know for me and my experience obviously not from
a gender experience, but from a sexuality experience, Like yeah,
I kind of like I knew who Ellen DeGeneres and stuff,
but another huge part of me was like I am
(11:22):
the first person to ever feel like this in the world. Yeah,
because I just didn't have examples of what queer love
or like fem lesbians or any of those things look like.
Was that sort of similar in your experience from a
gender perspective.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah. Well, I was actually having this conversation with a
CASTMATEE Hayden, who plays a Warren, who plays the older
version of my character, and I was trying to remember
when the first time I ever heard about a transperson,
or the first time I'd ever heard about anyone outside
(11:57):
of the binary, and I honestly couldn't tell you when
specifically or when it felt relevant. I think times that
I may have heard about it. It definitely, it definitely
was a oh that that exists elsewhere. I don't know
anyone personally like that. I know, I know that it exists.
(12:19):
You know, A trans person was kind of like a
mystical being for me of like, you know, I don't
have any you know, connection to that. And it wasn't
I don't know when I when I because I definitely wasn't.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
While I was young, I grew up relatively sheltered. I'm
from the country, and I you know, I wasn't. I
didn't understand a lot of things. And at the time
when I was younger, I was I was you know,
I was raised religiously and so I for myself, I
found myself being against anything that was different to what
I knew, which was a you know, a journey for
(12:53):
me of going from a kind of a place of
you know, I don't want to say hate, but it
was like quite you know, and then growing up and
realizing or just you know, just loving people more and
then learning through that through you know, appreciating others humanity,
(13:17):
you know, found myself comfortable enough to think about my
own and think about you know, who I am. You know,
I didn't have any role models or you know, queer
role models or things like that. It was in high school.
I had a couple of queer friends, but it was
still in a place of like, oh, yeah, that's cool.
I don't know what that means, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(13:40):
It was a lot of my yeah again, a lot
of my own research, and a lot of it was
a lot of online exposure.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I didn't have a lot of real life example of things,
probably particularly being from the country as well. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And that's another reason I'm so thankful to be part
of Back to Bertie, because I'm exposed to such a
deep queer culture that's here in Sydney, and you know,
that was a hope for mine. Too. When I moved
here was to like dive deeper into that queer scene
(14:15):
and make more queer friends and learn more about myself
and especially, you know, especially, I'm so thankful to have
met Hayden.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Talking about being an actor and being in the creative field,
we often hear a lot of the time, or at
least I've heard people say that we, as First Nations people,
are the first storytellers. We passed down our knowledge and
our law and our customs through story and song and dance,
and so as the world's oldest surviving, continuing culture, we've
(14:55):
been able to pass down that knowledge through storytelling. What
are your reflections on I guess that history of storytelling
as the First Nations creative Well.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
It's obviously an amazing privilege to be a part of
that and to be a you know, a descendant of
that culture and of that value, I guess, of the
value of storytelling and prioritizing that because it is I guess,
I guess it is a foundation of all other aspects
(15:25):
of culture and learning and things like that. Yeah, I
think the importance of centering storytelling and using that as
a platform for all the different aspects of life is
so important, and you know, for us, it's not just entertainment,
(15:47):
it's not just a way to make money, which I
feel is can be the case in you know, the
western world of you see it more and more these
days of the priority being to make money or things
like that and losing what storytelling is or what what
are we saying? Like what are we wanting to? What's
(16:10):
the heart behind what? Yeah? Exactly like, you know, yeah,
what are we what are we saying? How are we
saying it? Ah? What do we want the effect of
this to be?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
You know?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
And so when I I've been lucky enough since graduating
to work with a lot of different indigenous stories. I
didn't expect that, I think graduating that I would be
a part of so many different specifically indigenous stories. My
first you know, my first gig was a you know,
(16:49):
an Aboriginal musical, which was amazing. Like to not only
you know, work with Indigenous stories, but to play and
in his characters is something that I'm so thankful to
be able to do because you know, it feels, it
(17:09):
feels good in a way that sometimes you know, playing
other characters, Yeah, of different, you know, I generally play
white characters outside of you know things like because obviously
I love Shakespeare, but ah, to you know, to play
to be part of Black Stories is like it's cathartic,
(17:30):
It's it's feels homely, it feels you know, it feels
connected and oftentimes a little bit spiritual for me as well. Yeah,
it's like.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
The continuation of over sixty thousand year old system of
storytelling and performance. And also like either continuing on song
lines or creating new song lines, which I think is
just I'm giving myself like goosebumps. Yeah, like that's a
powerful thing for a firstation's creative.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yes, Yeah, to be able to feel that through line,
the kind of you know, the I guess like the
root systems of a tree. Like it's it's you know,
you can you can feel that at least you know,
as a creative myself, that's something that I definitely relate to, especially, yes,
(18:21):
especially telling black stories. I don't know, just it feels right,
it feels it feels like that's That's what I'm meant
to be doing for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, I can't wait to see how the show goes.
When to kick off the twenty something.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yes, so our first preview is the twenty first of
February and our opening night is the twenty. You might
have to pad check that. I'm sure I'll put on
Instagram anyway so that everyone absolutely yeah, because I don't
want to get that wrong. But yeah, you know, it's
at the Imperial in Erskineville, which is amazing to be
(19:03):
able to What an awesome venue? Can I say, because
like you know, I'm obviously very used to performing in theaters,
but this is going to be a very I don't know.
I think it's a very creative space to do it,
because you know, the characters themselves are having a chat
at a pub and so there you go. That's where
(19:25):
that's where we're going to be at, which.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
It's almost like inviting the audience into the story.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, well, I feel like.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
I'm getting too creative here. In my mind, this is
what it means.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
And then absolutely I think, you know, I think, you know,
I've briefly spoken to the director about it. I think
they are kind of going for an idea of like
the audience is almost like eavesdropping on this, you know,
conversation with these two two real people that are having
a you know, a heart to heart at a pub.
I think that's I think that's absolutely what it that's
really fun should feel like. Yeah, So I'm really excited
(20:01):
for that to start. It's so soon, I know, I know,
but I think I think it's going to be really great. Uh.
Hayden and Gemma, who play the present day characters, I
think they're so fantastic and they're you know, they're going
to carry that that that show through and Chloe and
(20:22):
I will you know, weave our way through different to
support that. And I think that's gonna be really fun.
That's awesome. I'm really excited.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
I can't wait to go see myself and we'll definitely
share all of it on our Instagram when people can
buy their own tickets and go and go and see themselves.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, it's on, I guess.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
As we move towards closing up our chat, although I'm
sure we could be here for age was going on
about five hundred different things. Is there, I guess, anything
about your layered identity as a First Nations person, as
a gender queer person that you wish people understood more
or knew more?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Is there anything you'd like to add there? I don't know,
I you know, sometimes I do think about this question.
A bit, and part of it, I know, is a
little bit wishful thinking in terms of understanding. I think
it's difficult for people to, yeah, deprogram years and years
of understanding the way that our society functions and things
(21:17):
like that, like you know, post colonization, like the idea
of the binary and things like that. If you're raised
from day one with believing that, then yeah, it's I've
even founded myself. It's difficult to kind of comprehend something
outside of that. I know who I am, and I
(21:38):
know what I feel and think. And when I say, like, oh,
I you know, today I'm wearing a dress, but like
that isn't an indication that I am this or that
or the other. I think, you know, there's a hope
in me that when people look at me, they don't
(21:58):
just see the thing that they used to seeing or
the thing that they used to understanding, because obviously we've
you know, been learning things. Is all about pattern recognition
and understanding is like oh, okay, from a young age,
I learned that this imagery is associated with this language. Yeah,
I just hope and I even get caught up on
that too, Like.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
You know, it's about like encouraging people to think twice, question,
question what they've been taught.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, because I mean, I'm not gonna judge you for like,
you know, looking at me and immediately being like, oh,
I'm assuming that's a woman like I like, I'm you know,
I'm not completely out of touch, Like I understand that, Yeah,
that is that is you know what you've probably learned
to think. And I guess what I would love is
for people to learn or understand is just like take
(22:44):
a second and be like, oh, could it be that?
Or maybe I can start seeing people as just like
that's them, like that's you know, that's my friend Angelica.
Oh that's that's that actor Angelica. Yeah, I wonder what
they're doing or you know, yeah, and then find out
later if you start to connect with that person about
(23:07):
what you know and anything specific they what they would
you know prefer things like that, Yeah, but also just
just generally being more open to new things. I'm sure
that there are going to be amazing new discoveries of
like different things. I'm still in the process of learning
about neo pronouns, like you know, there's so much more
learning for that I can do. I hope everyone is
(23:29):
also doing that that was also on that journey.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I think that's great to leave
everyone with for this episode. So thank you so much
for listening to another episode of coming up like Angelica.
Thank you so much for coming and having a young
with us today, Angelica. Where can people find you both
when they want to buy tickets but also just in
terms of following your career?
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, well, I guess probably the best place to go
is Instagram. I believe that I am at Angelica dot
Lockier on Instagram. Very basic but gets the job done.
I don't have a history of posting a lot, but
I'm going to be trying to post more and more
specifically my work, specifically you know, gigs that I'm doing,
(24:13):
or you know you'll find on my story you know,
shows that I have I believe in, or shows that
my friends are in. Also, if you want just good
recommendations of theater, I'll probably have that up there as
well as well as Yeah, as well as I have
a couple of posts about back to Bertie, so you
can find tickets through there as well.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Beautiful, thanks for listening to another episode of Coming Out Black.
You can find us at coming Out Black blak on Instagram, Facebook,
and any way you.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
We would love it if you could give us a
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Speaker 1 (24:54):
We would love to hear from you. This episode is
brought to you by the Blackcast Network and produce by
Clint Curtis.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm a Teka and I'm Courtney, and we're two queer
First Nations women passionate about representation for our community.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
We created this podcast to share our stories. We want
you to join us on the journey. You're listening to
Coming Out Black.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Coming Out Black. Today,
we have the Deadly Angelica Rose Lockyer with us. Angelica
is a gender queer, non binary First Nations performer from
the Pilper region.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
They use she, they, and heat pronouns and they're.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
A graduate of Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts. They've
performed in multiple stage and screen performances, way too many
for me to even list here, but notably they were
awarded Best Performance in the Vice Chancellor's Shakespeare Awards for
their performance and an expert of much Ado about Nothing,
which I think is so cool. We always love like
black deadly people getting the awards and the I guess
(00:59):
status that they just But it's so good to have
you here. I wanted to read out a little bit
of a spiel about you, but we always do, always
have the mob that come on talk a bit and
introduce themselves in their own words.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So tell us a bit about you. Who's your mob
and where you from? Yeah? Great, well that that all
sounds made me sound very impressive, you are, But yeah,
so I'm from a Pilbar region, specifically Port Headland, so
that's you know, Guttioada country. Uh, and I myself am
Gattiata as well as Yelama and Nil. You know, I've
(01:35):
also lived in Perth on Nounga. A little bit about myself. Well,
like it's been stated, I'm a performer. You know, I
love theater. I also love voice acting, which you know
I don't often have in my bio, but it is
something that I that is a passion of mine. I'm
new to Sydney. I'm very excited to have moved here
(01:59):
very recently. And I identify as gender queer or non
binary or even gender fluid. But I like to use
gender queer as like an umbrella term of like yeah,
I'm I'm queer, I'm uh and obviously yeah, I use
most pronouns ah, but yeah, the usual go tousa they
(02:23):
she he amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I guess for anyone listening in terms of when you
say gender queer, non binary, those labels for you, what
does that mean? For you, for anyone who might not
understand that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, great question. For me, I think it just means,
you know, growing up, obviously I didn't have the terminology
for it, but I didn't really I don't fully identify
as strictly a woman or I don't identify strictly as
a man. Ah. And I guess like that is you know,
(02:59):
the known in our society at least binary, and so
I guess with non binary, it's like, I'm not you know,
either of those things. And in terms of you know,
if I were to say I'm gender fluid, it's because honestly,
I just I don't know. Day to day, I can feel,
oh yeah, I feel a little very masculine or you know, feminine,
(03:20):
or and even not not fully knowing what that means,
like what masculinity or femininity is. It's more of just
a Honestly, I just kind of describe it as I'm Angelica,
and you know, it's it's whatever. It's like, yeah, it's
it's not. Yeah, I'm not. I appreciate the importance of
(03:43):
the constructive gender, and I appreciate what that means in
our society and what that means, you know, for people
culturally and and personally, But for my self, basically, I
just I'm not too fussed about it. I'm just me
love that for you.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Speaking of you moving to Sydney, I know that your
I guess jbut in performing here in Sydney is through
the theater performance of Back to Bertie, which I'm super
excited to have a chat with you about. I might
just read a bit of the I guess synopsis.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Is that what they call it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Absolutely, you know, you know theater terminology is pretty good. Okay,
here we go, I'll read it out. Sometimes the longest
friendships are the most complicated ones. Warren and Emily have
been best friends since high school, suffering together through shitty teachers,
coming out and failed relationships. Since Warren's transition, It's become
obvious that there are lots of things that are not
(04:41):
saying to each other taking place in the aftermath of
falling out between protagonists Warren and Emily. Back to Bertie
is a candid, humorous look at chasms and contradictions within
the queer community, how old friendships reshape around identity, politics,
and quick spaces, set against the backdrops of a lesbian,
queer G and C folk night bird Cage. The play
(05:02):
takes characters back to Birdie I e. Bird Cage through
a series of fluid flashbacks as they interact with their
younger selves. That sounds really fun. Yeah, and I have
been to bird get Actually I think I've only been twice.
But the one I remember was going to bird Cage
the night that gay marriage got past. Oh wow, there
(05:23):
was a Wednesday, and like that was the only thing
I've been to.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Like it was like packed. That sounds amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Because it's gonna be really fun to see sort of
how that is captured within the performance.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yes, I hope, I hope it feels authentic.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
What got you into like theater and performing and storytelling.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Well, that's always an interesting question because I think I think,
like a lot of people, it kind of starts in childhood.
I find kids. I think people are just born performers
and then they kind of choose to continue that or not.
Yeah that's Shakespeare quote, like all the world's yes. Yeah,
(06:04):
So when you know, I was a kid, and I
was you know, obviously very into like making up stories
and things like that and accents. But my real exposure
to live performance was through ballet. So I did that
from like the age of four, So like from four
(06:24):
to eleven, I was doing ballet, and that I think
really solidified, specifically live performance or performing in front of
an audience on stage, as something that I just really
really loved to do as well as you know the
classic I did drama in school and like things like that.
(06:44):
I didn't think of it as a profession or like
something that I could do for a living until I
was an adult. I think probably until I was doing
the Aboriginal Performance course at WHOPPA, the Western Australian Academy
of Performing Art. I it was then that I was like, oh,
I could do this as like my thing, as like
(07:06):
a main thing. Yeah exactly, and yeah, and so when
I did that, and then I when I went into
the you know, bachelor course at WHOPPER as well, I
knew that this was something that I would want to
do forever. Yeah, how long ago was that when you
first started? So I did the opisonal performance course in
(07:29):
twenty eighteen, and I graduated from the bachelor course in
twenty twenty one. So I've been in the you know,
in the professional industry since graduating for about you know
two years, Like still this my third year and I've been,
you know, fortunate enough to be in some really great projects. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Do you see parts of your own journey or or
of your self mirrored in the stories of these characters
that you're getting to sort of connect with?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah? With Warren, uh he I mean, he's definitely more
of like a guy's guy than I am. Okay, And
but I guess that relationship with with not really with
growing up without not knowing like the terminology and things
like that. And he he comes out, you know, later
(08:24):
in life or while he's in an adult which I
definitely relate to also. Uh. And with Emily I relate
to I guess more of her personality rather than her story.
I think she's very she's very outspoken and very uh. Well,
(08:45):
she can see the world a little bit black and
white sometimes, and that's something I've have related to which
I've worked on. And you know, I'm a bit more
the growing that she does. I relate to that growing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
When was your coming out experience of publicly letting people
know how you identify it?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, Well, I don't think I ever had. I guess
I never had like a formal or like a classic
kind of coming out in terms of to my family
or friends and things like that. I think probably my
a lot of the times where I've like come out
was through bios in projects that I was doing. Like
(09:29):
I did a short film in my final year of UNI,
and I was playing a non binary character for that
short film, and so in the bio of like the
you know, the marketing for that to let people know
to to fund it and things like that, it just
had in my bio like, yeah, Angelic is a queer,
but more so through work, you were able. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Oh, by the way, put this in my bio right exactly.
The people will just read it and they'll note exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I never had to do a lot of like face
to face kind of you know, this is this is
who I am and things like that, and as well
as like, you know, my Instagram bio is you know,
I've got my pronouns there. Uh yeah, I never did. Yeah,
I guess. And I never sat anyone down and explained
(10:16):
who I was. And I but I love that. Yeah,
I'm so glad you got to have that EXPERI I'm
very I'm happy that I you know that I feel
comfortable enough to do that. I know a lot of
people still like don't. And that's you know, and I
hope more and more like the younger generations is like
coming out can be whatever they want it to be
(10:39):
for them, Like if you want to do the kind
of uh, you know, celebration of it, or if you
want to do something where you're where you're sharing something
about yourself with people that you love and things like that,
I think that is beautiful. I just didn't for myself.
I just wasn't really me. I don't know if I'm
I don't know if I'm that earnest.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Did you like growing up when you look back and
you're like, oh, that was a gender queen moment, did
you have a lot of examples of queerness around you?
Like was that something you were even like you? Because
I know for me and my experience obviously not from
a gender experience, but from a sexuality experience, Like yeah,
I kind of like I knew who Ellen DeGeneres and stuff,
but another huge part of me was like I am
(11:22):
the first person to ever feel like this in the world. Yeah,
because I just didn't have examples of what queer love
or like fem lesbians or any of those things look like.
Was that sort of similar in your experience from a
gender perspective.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah. Well, I was actually having this conversation with a
CASTMATEE Hayden, who plays a Warren, who plays the older
version of my character, and I was trying to remember
when the first time I ever heard about a transperson,
or the first time I'd ever heard about anyone outside
(11:57):
of the binary, and I honestly couldn't tell you when
specifically or when it felt relevant. I think times that
I may have heard about it. It definitely, it definitely
was a oh that that exists elsewhere. I don't know
anyone personally like that. I know, I know that it exists.
(12:19):
You know, A trans person was kind of like a
mystical being for me of like, you know, I don't
have any you know, connection to that. And it wasn't
I don't know when I when I because I definitely wasn't.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
While I was young, I grew up relatively sheltered. I'm
from the country, and I you know, I wasn't. I
didn't understand a lot of things. And at the time
when I was younger, I was I was you know,
I was raised religiously and so I for myself, I
found myself being against anything that was different to what
I knew, which was a you know, a journey for
(12:53):
me of going from a kind of a place of
you know, I don't want to say hate, but it
was like quite you know, and then growing up and
realizing or just you know, just loving people more and
then learning through that through you know, appreciating others humanity,
(13:17):
you know, found myself comfortable enough to think about my
own and think about you know, who I am. You know,
I didn't have any role models or you know, queer
role models or things like that. It was in high school.
I had a couple of queer friends, but it was
still in a place of like, oh, yeah, that's cool.
I don't know what that means, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(13:40):
It was a lot of my yeah again, a lot
of my own research, and a lot of it was
a lot of online exposure.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I didn't have a lot of real life example of things,
probably particularly being from the country as well. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And that's another reason I'm so thankful to be part
of Back to Bertie, because I'm exposed to such a
deep queer culture that's here in Sydney, and you know,
that was a hope for mine. Too. When I moved
here was to like dive deeper into that queer scene
(14:15):
and make more queer friends and learn more about myself
and especially, you know, especially, I'm so thankful to have
met Hayden.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Talking about being an actor and being in the creative field,
we often hear a lot of the time, or at
least I've heard people say that we, as First Nations people,
are the first storytellers. We passed down our knowledge and
our law and our customs through story and song and dance,
and so as the world's oldest surviving, continuing culture, we've
(14:55):
been able to pass down that knowledge through storytelling. What
are your reflections on I guess that history of storytelling
as the First Nations creative Well.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
It's obviously an amazing privilege to be a part of
that and to be a you know, a descendant of
that culture and of that value, I guess, of the
value of storytelling and prioritizing that because it is I guess,
I guess it is a foundation of all other aspects
(15:25):
of culture and learning and things like that. Yeah, I
think the importance of centering storytelling and using that as
a platform for all the different aspects of life is
so important, and you know, for us, it's not just entertainment,
(15:47):
it's not just a way to make money, which I
feel is can be the case in you know, the
western world of you see it more and more these
days of the priority being to make money or things
like that and losing what storytelling is or what what
are we saying? Like what are we wanting to? What's
(16:10):
the heart behind what? Yeah? Exactly like, you know, yeah,
what are we what are we saying? How are we
saying it? Ah? What do we want the effect of
this to be?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
You know?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
And so when I I've been lucky enough since graduating
to work with a lot of different indigenous stories. I
didn't expect that, I think graduating that I would be
a part of so many different specifically indigenous stories. My
first you know, my first gig was a you know,
(16:49):
an Aboriginal musical, which was amazing. Like to not only
you know, work with Indigenous stories, but to play and
in his characters is something that I'm so thankful to
be able to do because you know, it feels, it
(17:09):
feels good in a way that sometimes you know, playing
other characters, Yeah, of different, you know, I generally play
white characters outside of you know things like because obviously
I love Shakespeare, but ah, to you know, to play
to be part of Black Stories is like it's cathartic,
(17:30):
It's it's feels homely, it feels you know, it feels
connected and oftentimes a little bit spiritual for me as well. Yeah,
it's like.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
The continuation of over sixty thousand year old system of
storytelling and performance. And also like either continuing on song
lines or creating new song lines, which I think is
just I'm giving myself like goosebumps. Yeah, like that's a
powerful thing for a firstation's creative.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yes, Yeah, to be able to feel that through line,
the kind of you know, the I guess like the
root systems of a tree. Like it's it's you know,
you can you can feel that at least you know,
as a creative myself, that's something that I definitely relate to, especially, yes,
(18:21):
especially telling black stories. I don't know, just it feels right,
it feels it feels like that's That's what I'm meant
to be doing for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, I can't wait to see how the show goes.
When to kick off the twenty something.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yes, so our first preview is the twenty first of
February and our opening night is the twenty. You might
have to pad check that. I'm sure I'll put on
Instagram anyway so that everyone absolutely yeah, because I don't
want to get that wrong. But yeah, you know, it's
at the Imperial in Erskineville, which is amazing to be
(19:03):
able to What an awesome venue? Can I say, because
like you know, I'm obviously very used to performing in theaters,
but this is going to be a very I don't know.
I think it's a very creative space to do it,
because you know, the characters themselves are having a chat
at a pub and so there you go. That's where
(19:25):
that's where we're going to be at, which.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
It's almost like inviting the audience into the story.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, well, I feel like.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
I'm getting too creative here. In my mind, this is
what it means.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
And then absolutely I think, you know, I think, you know,
I've briefly spoken to the director about it. I think
they are kind of going for an idea of like
the audience is almost like eavesdropping on this, you know,
conversation with these two two real people that are having
a you know, a heart to heart at a pub.
I think that's I think that's absolutely what it that's
really fun should feel like. Yeah, So I'm really excited
(20:01):
for that to start. It's so soon, I know, I know,
but I think I think it's going to be really great. Uh.
Hayden and Gemma, who play the present day characters, I
think they're so fantastic and they're you know, they're going
to carry that that that show through and Chloe and
(20:22):
I will you know, weave our way through different to
support that. And I think that's gonna be really fun.
That's awesome. I'm really excited.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
I can't wait to go see myself and we'll definitely
share all of it on our Instagram when people can
buy their own tickets and go and go and see themselves.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, it's on, I guess.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
As we move towards closing up our chat, although I'm
sure we could be here for age was going on
about five hundred different things. Is there, I guess, anything
about your layered identity as a First Nations person, as
a gender queer person that you wish people understood more
or knew more?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Is there anything you'd like to add there? I don't know,
I you know, sometimes I do think about this question.
A bit, and part of it, I know, is a
little bit wishful thinking in terms of understanding. I think
it's difficult for people to, yeah, deprogram years and years
of understanding the way that our society functions and things
(21:17):
like that, like you know, post colonization, like the idea
of the binary and things like that. If you're raised
from day one with believing that, then yeah, it's I've
even founded myself. It's difficult to kind of comprehend something
outside of that. I know who I am, and I
(21:38):
know what I feel and think. And when I say, like, oh,
I you know, today I'm wearing a dress, but like
that isn't an indication that I am this or that
or the other. I think, you know, there's a hope
in me that when people look at me, they don't
(21:58):
just see the thing that they used to seeing or
the thing that they used to understanding, because obviously we've
you know, been learning things. Is all about pattern recognition
and understanding is like oh, okay, from a young age,
I learned that this imagery is associated with this language. Yeah,
I just hope and I even get caught up on
that too, Like.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
You know, it's about like encouraging people to think twice, question,
question what they've been taught.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, because I mean, I'm not gonna judge you for like,
you know, looking at me and immediately being like, oh,
I'm assuming that's a woman like I like, I'm you know,
I'm not completely out of touch, Like I understand that, Yeah,
that is that is you know what you've probably learned
to think. And I guess what I would love is
for people to learn or understand is just like take
(22:44):
a second and be like, oh, could it be that?
Or maybe I can start seeing people as just like
that's them, like that's you know, that's my friend Angelica.
Oh that's that's that actor Angelica. Yeah, I wonder what
they're doing or you know, yeah, and then find out
later if you start to connect with that person about
(23:07):
what you know and anything specific they what they would
you know prefer things like that, Yeah, but also just
just generally being more open to new things. I'm sure
that there are going to be amazing new discoveries of
like different things. I'm still in the process of learning
about neo pronouns, like you know, there's so much more
learning for that I can do. I hope everyone is
(23:29):
also doing that that was also on that journey.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I think that's great to leave
everyone with for this episode. So thank you so much
for listening to another episode of coming up like Angelica.
Thank you so much for coming and having a young
with us today, Angelica. Where can people find you both
when they want to buy tickets but also just in
terms of following your career?
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, well, I guess probably the best place to go
is Instagram. I believe that I am at Angelica dot
Lockier on Instagram. Very basic but gets the job done.
I don't have a history of posting a lot, but
I'm going to be trying to post more and more
specifically my work, specifically you know, gigs that I'm doing,
(24:13):
or you know you'll find on my story you know,
shows that I have I believe in, or shows that
my friends are in. Also, if you want just good
recommendations of theater, I'll probably have that up there as
well as well as Yeah, as well as I have
a couple of posts about back to Bertie, so you
can find tickets through there as well.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Beautiful, thanks for listening to another episode of Coming Out Black.
You can find us at coming Out Black blak on Instagram, Facebook,
and any way you.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
We would love it if you could give us a
five star review and give us your feedback as it
helps other people find the podcast. If you have a
story to tell, please reach out to us on Facebook
or Instagram.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
We would love to hear from you. This episode is
brought to you by the Blackcast Network and produce by
Clint Curtis.
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