October 23, 2023 • 25 mins
Matika and Courtney discuss how they're feeling and where we go from here after Australia voted NO to a First Nation's Voice to Parliament.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is recorded on Stolen Land. We acknowledge and
pay our respects to our elders, past, present, and for
future generations. Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm a Teeka and I'm Courtney, and we're too Queer
First Nations women passionate about representation for our community. We
created this podcast to share our stories. We want you
to join us on the.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Journey you're listening to Coming Out Black.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
It's been a hard week, but I'm really glad that
we were able to actually come together in person today
to I guess, unpack how we're feeling currently and talk
about where to from here. That's the question I think
a lot of people are asking, but let's start with
how we're feeling.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (00:47):
How have you been feeling in this week post the result?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, Look, I think, like many of us, a mixture
of anger, disappointment, not surprised.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I don't know what the word is for that emotional whiplash.
For sure.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I feel a little bit like a bit of a
joke really, almost like why do we pay for a
national survey to.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Find out that Austray is still racist?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
You know? I am disappointed for a lot of people
that I know have put their heart and soul and
everything into the campaign. I really feel for our younger
people who can't vote, who will probably be, you know,
attributed the consequence of this vote going the way that
(01:42):
it did.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
So you know, that's that's how I feel. How about you?
How are you feeling?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I feel like I'm going through so many emotions, even
with a little bit of space that we've had from
the result. I think my initial reaction was also unsurprised, unfortunately,
Like I'm so disappointed and I'm genuinely so disgusted by
the nation that we are at the moment, but unfortunately
(02:13):
not surprised at all, Like I'm so ashamed of this country. Obviously,
we already have a shameful history, and there's so much
work to be done on truth telling and educating people
about that.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
But to see this.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Be the result, it feels like a slap in the face,
and it feels like people don't care. Like I was
sitting at a panel event yesterday getting ready to tell
part of my story and talk about why I think
this podcast is important, why I felt that us sharing
our voice on this platform was important, and beforehand I
(02:49):
just felt like, am I going out there to an
audience who doesn't give a fuck? Am I going out
there a sixty percent of people who actually don't care?
And that's been really hard to grapple with this week.
Because we do. We use our voices through this podcast
in what I think is a powerful way and helps people.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
To feel like they're not alone.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And to have Australia say we actually don't want you
to have a voice to Parliament made me angry and upset,
but also, like you, not surprised that the country shows up.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, and I honestly thought common sense and humanity would
prevail in this one.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
You would think it has been really interesting to I
guess not. I don't even think the word interesting is right.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
But you know, there's got to be some accountability for
the absolute liares and bs that's been tossed through. Yeah,
you know, I know that. I think journalism has been
pretty tight. I think they haven't really crossed as much
as they could. But there's politicians that have outrightly lied
(03:59):
about so many things to do with our people, and
they should be held responsible for that.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
How, but you know, I think it's just utterly disappointing
that so much has been done in that way, not
for the actual big picture goal that anyone has achieved,
But it's just for own individual political gain, and I'm
not surprised that our people have been put as.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
The you know, collateral damage in.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
This people's political gain.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Yeah, yeah, absolute mess.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Do you think that without the misinformation that came from
the No campaign, that the Australian people would have voted?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yes, yeah, I do.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Actually, I really do think if there wasn't so much
misinformation and so much targeted hysteria around the lack of detail, bullshit,
it's just not true. And we've we've never once cared
about the detail of other laws that get pasted or Yeah,
(05:09):
constitutional change is only one mechanism that we couldn't seem
to get that right. And I think if we were
able to just view it as just an advisory group.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Which it was supposed, which is what it is.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, you know, I think the general everyday Australian, no
matter what their political view, would have seen that that
was appropriate. And it's yeah, it's very unfortunate to see
what happened instead of what should have been a very
easy simple answer.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
And then my other question is do you think that
the progressive No vote, particularly that coming from First Nations
people's also hurt collectively the larger First Nations group.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, I think it's hard, right, we can't all get
along all decide, And I think there were many reasons
for the progressive no. Unfortunately, whether they liked it or not,
they were looped in with the racist no. And it's
hard to it's hard to kind of separate, unfortunately. And
(06:20):
you know, people had many reasons to vote no. As
part of our community, they had a lot of reasons
to do so. And I think what they did do
was enable other people who did have a more racist
or I don't know what the right word as.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
A bias undertone to it.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, because this Aboriginal person is saying no, I can
use that as the reason I'm saying no. One Really
there's an unconscious bias, and there's a mistrust of Aboriginal people,
which I think we've seen coming from the you know,
we need to order, we need to audit. As a
result of the NO, I think a lot of the
people who were like, oh, well, First Nations people don't
want this, and now also we need to order them.
(07:02):
It's this mistrust of our community and our people in general.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, and I think a lot of people don't realize
what a what are NO meant either.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
You know, we've got people up home my way Gari.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So Fraser Island got its its heritage name writturned, and
there's a lot of people up there against it, and
they honestly just thought if they voted, know that that
name would be restored.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Oh yeah, which is not true.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
It didn't happen, but like, you know, it's it's that
kind of misinformation or people just think they can be
racist now, yeah, which which was the I guess the
most discussing part of the whole NO campaign was people
were able to tie in their neo Nazi, anti black,
(07:51):
you know views into something that was you know, just
a political one up from one party to another. And yeah,
it's just horrific. And I hope that you know, both
the progressive nos and the you know, Liberal party voters
(08:11):
that you know followed their leader who do care about
our people, will lead that will lead that solution to
what we do now with all this you know, very
direct disgusting racism. This, this survey or referendum put a
mirror up to the country to take a look at itself.
(08:33):
And I think there's a lot of us that should
be really disappointed with the outcome. And when I see us,
I mean non indigenous people to look at each other
and talk about, you know, why are out here is
you know, viewing other humans this way? Why?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
What is uniting about? What just happened?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, you know, after all of the talk about division,
like look where we've landed, Look where this country has landed.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I haven't really asked many people this because I think
I know the answer. But where were you, you know,
referendum night, and what was your reaction.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
To yeah, to the no.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I unfortunately was at home alone, which is such a
bum my. Partner had an awards night for hockey that
she had to go to. So I was a home
alone and I was watching the Point and that's I
tuned in, and it was like, oh, like it's pretty
much been called, like the show start at SEVENOT thirty. Yeah,
(09:35):
it was clear from the numbers we haven't got this.
And I ordered myself from KFC and I sat there
and I watched the Point, and then in the discussion
that was unfolding, and the votes, and then of course
like the press conference and those sorts of things, and
I just remember feeling disappointed. I felt not only alone
(09:56):
because I was at home alone, but alone in sense
of this country doesn't care. This country has chosen to
stay as it is, and that's because it works for
the majority of other people. Like Australia could not make
a decision that was in support of and helped a
minority for fear that it would change the privilege that
(10:18):
they currently live in. So I just remember being really
hurt and upset about that, and yeah, I just sort
of was quiet for the night. Teaken came home, gave
me a hug. She bought me a video game I've
been really wanting for a while.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
And so I've been playing that.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
It's like here, I got you this, like maybe it'll
help distract you, which is really sweet of her.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah, that's what I was doing.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Where were you?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I was actually with some friends.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I was over on Minjeriba Strabock Islands with my partner
and her friends, celebrating her birthday. And I knew, obviously
in the day of leading up to the referendum account
that things weren't going well, and I've just kind of
opted to not be on social media, to not read
(11:01):
any news because I knew that I didn't want to
watch it fall out the way that it did, so
I wasn't watching. I sort of just really leaned into
the party that I was at.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
And yeah, then.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I checked my phone obviously because I wanted to know
if there'd been any news, and I think early on
there was, yeah, probably not some good stats, and then
it didn't look good, so I just kind of put
it down.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And then later on I when I.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Checked it, it was confirmed no, and I just Withdrew
and just I think I sat outside and just like
cried for like two hours, just like many of us,
I think, and then I just, yeah, I needed to
go to bed, and I didn't really really want to
speak about it pretty much until now, just going over
(11:58):
in your own mind, how you know how it.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Went wrong, how what this means now?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And yeah, and you know, just just it's just stung
a lot because I think almost we we had a
little bit of hope.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
I think I think I think that's what happened.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
It's like we actually thought maybe Australia could be ready
when the Prime Minister is supporting it.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
You know, I showed up Austraca, you.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Know, like we had rallies, we had people really getting
behind it large organizations, whether people thought that was authentic
or not. I think large corps are made up of
a lot of people, and a lot of those employees
of those places care about us and our mob too,
Like we don't got to kind of remember that as well,
(12:45):
you know. But yeah, I was just devastated, and I
think the the shock's gone away, but yeah, I think
there's a lot of bitterness that probably sits with with
all of us and disappointment, and yeah, I think I've
said those words a few times already, but yeah, it's
(13:05):
definitely how it feels.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
But those feelings are deep, and I think it's going
to take a long time for us to not even
not even heel it's gonna.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Take even longer to heal from this.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
But it's gonna take a long time for us to
even become back to a neutral place with this, Which
is why I wanted us to have like a conversation
of course, at a time when we were sort of
emotionally ready for it, but also, you know, I wonder
if we look back on this in a few months
and think, you know, do we think differently, do we
feel the same? What else has happened from this? But yeah,
(13:34):
I remember feeling really hopeful on voting day because I
went in and there was not a single no sign,
no campaigner, and I was like, oh my god, this
is like actually really good, Like maybe I've maybe my
social media has just been wrapped with like the loudest
people from the smallest group, like maybe this is a
really good thing. And then that was obviously dashed pretty
(13:55):
quickly quickly that afternoon.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
So yeah, but you.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Know, like I look get the stats, and we actually
did nearly get there as well. In some ways, I
think there's a lot of people that didn't vote, which
is an automatic. No. I think there's a few places
that it was you know, it was close, and so
I'm not completely disheartened in that way, Like I know,
(14:22):
I wish we didn't have to go through this process
to find out. But in some ways, there are more
more support than we've ever had.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Yeah, I think we've gained allies through this.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, I hope.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I think a lot of people have been educated, and
that's not you know, that's not top shelf, but it's something. Yeah,
but yeah, what do you think is next?
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Now?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
You know, for us, that's a good question, and I
think it's really hard to answer at this point in time.
What I hope happens next is I hope the allies
that joined us during this process continue to show up
post this, like I want to see them January twenty sixth.
I want to see them engaging with you know, Need
of Week, Reconciliation Week. I want to see them be
(15:03):
active champions in their own workplaces and families and friend
groups for our community. I hope to see that rather
than I think it's safer for a lot of non
Indigenous people who you know, have white privilege to be like, oh, okay,
sixty percent of people voted no, so I'll just slip
back into the shadows where I was prior to this.
(15:25):
I want them to stay strong and stand with us
on this because we need it. I think a lot
of people will feel emboldened to just continue to be like, well,
we don't care about this anymore. Like we all voted
on this, no one wants to talk about it anymore,
and we need those newfound allies to stand with us
while we go. Actually, no, we are still important. It's
just we just need to find a new route to change.
(15:46):
So I hope to see that happen.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And I hope holding others accountable as well in terms
of you know, commitments that they've made, for example, Queensland
going through the path for treaty. We know you've got
the Truth and the Justice Commission down in Victoria. We've
had commitments from states to get those things going. We've
got the voice that's running in South Australia. We want
(16:08):
to keep pushing and I really do hope and implore
you know, those of us who can you know, to
keep that pressure on our politicians to stay true to
that not back down just because of this referendum. That
shouldn't be an overall message of public approval of whether
we should care about abridginal Tosua Islander people or not.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Because of the.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Human beings and we've got you know, unique human rights
that you know sit underneath or sit specifically to the
needs and cultural rights of Reginald Tooshare Islander people that
we're not you know, we're not meeting still racisms that
at all time our desk and custody are through the roof.
(16:51):
Closing the gap just feels like it's something that you know,
it's an afterthought, it's a wish we're thinking rather than
something that's practically being managed, cared for, promoted disgust or
progress towards and that's been going for how many years now,
(17:14):
how many decades to at least, and I'm worried that
we're not going to get there if you know, if
we can't even get an advisory.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Group, change is always slower than we want and we
need it to be. I think there are a lot
of Australians who, in the aftermath of this, will come
to regret that decision to vote no, and they will
realize what a mistake this is. We've already started to
see the global reaction to Australia and this result, and
(17:45):
it's not good spoiler obviously, So I think in the
times to come, there will be people who look back
on this and think, I think I made a mistake there,
and I didn't fully like I would wrapped up in misinformation.
I was wrapped up in fear of losing something when
really all there was was something for a minority group
(18:07):
to gain.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, which in term could have helped us all.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah in general and create a better country that where
we live in.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
But you know, people are scared of change, and that
doesn't mean it's Okay, people discuss being conservative as a
reason to vote no. Yeah, I don't think you can associate,
you know, conservative traditional views with this decision. It's just
(18:37):
just say that you're racist.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Just say it, just.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
But yeah. I like to think people will will look
back in and regret it.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I do hope that this is this is moment in
time where we realize we've got a springboard in a
different direction and still do as much as we can
to empower First Nations communities to be set determined in
the way that they.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Approach their own affairs and you know, give.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Us the autonomy to close their own their own close
the gap.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
It's gonna say, close their own gaps.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
But they didn't feel right, you know, I really do.
I really do hope that that's what we get out
of this whole thing, and that continued support now now
that it's not a big media discussed item, that the
support continues, it remains authentic and mutually beneficial and mostly
(19:33):
beneficial to First Nations communities.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I was listening to the conversation between Maddie and Brooke
on not to PG always good to listen to other
mob and what their thoughts are on this and of course,
as to other queer First Nations individuals. They were talking
about how challenging it has been, in particular for mob
who are queer and First Nations to have gone through
to significant events in recent years of then they deciding
(20:00):
whether or not our voice matters, our rights.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Matter, that we matter to an extent. Have you felt
the weight of that?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, look, I think it does remind me of back then.
It does remind me the plever SciTE time. However, I
think the common sense didn't prevail in the same way
throughout the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
But yeah, it does take me back to that, and
it also just.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Makes me really concerned and worried about, you know, our
trans and non binary.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Mob and not mob.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Actually, I think if we can't get the basics of
a safe a plever site, a safe referendum, you know,
I do doubt what chances we do have in passing
important policy reform.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
For our trans and non binary people.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
But I do hope that in some ways because of
the pleb site, we can make more moves I guess
from a political, social, and law reform landscape for them,
and I hope that there is some attention turned towards
that in the next coming years. But if anything, you
just sort of feel like, how unfair it is that
(21:10):
we've allowed, were not allowed that the country is even
allowed to make some kind of decision about you when
they're not even really from your you know, from your
community or have the same lived experience as you, Like,
why should they have the majority power to make decisions
about you? But obviously that's capitalism and colonization. We know
(21:38):
that's where all that came from. But yeah, it's a
very unique feeling. I don't really know how to explain it.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I'm like, oh, yeah, you want to hope that we
never have.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
To hopefully we're done on nation voting on us just
for now. Body, Well, yeah, I guess off the back
of that, it just shows how important it is for
us to be practicing self care, the community to be
taking care of themselves. And I think the good thing
is that first Nation's mob and queer communities are so
good at collectively coming together, supporting one another, having this
(22:14):
beautiful chosen family and kinship network. And so I really
just hope that everyone is practicing that at the moment,
as hard as it may be. What does that look
like for you at the moment? I think it's just
spending time with people I love. I have really gotten into.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Gardening, like, okay, she's really in her like eighty year
old and honor era.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
I love that fear, lots of baking, you know, making preserves.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Oh okay, yeah, so I'm really doomsday.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But yeah, no, just spending time with loved ones.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
And just yeah, slowing down as much as I can
towards the end of the year, trying to take take
care of my physical and mental health.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
But yeah, yeah, that's.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Awesome for me.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
It has just been making sure I try and check
in with myself. I think I'm really bad at that
most of the time, and I just let things go
until someone around me is like, do you think maybe
you should talk to someone about this? Like I've noticed this,
So I'm just trying to be more cognizant and really
(23:20):
check in with myself and my body.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Like I've noticed that through the stress that is.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, when I say i've noticed, I mean my girlfriend
pointing this out to me that through the stress of
this and the disappointment and the outcome, like I've had
some really horrible eating habits and I am someone who
struggled with like not a great relationship with food, and
so after the referendum, I was just eating this just
one thing, and that one thing was KFC. While I
(23:46):
love KFC, it's not healthy to be eating that only
that by itself, and I mean, like my brain just
couldn't be like, you're either eating KFC or you're not
eating for the day and being able to have that
called out to me and me be like, all right,
I should really make sure I do something about this.
So I really want to make sure I'm calling out
(24:07):
anyone listening who like, if you just need to check
in with yourself for a second, be like, am I
like taking care of my body in my mind at
the moment, do that because I had to have it
called out to me, and just make sure that we're
doing things that we love. Like for me, I've been
distracting myself with the video game that I got. As
much as it's hard to have these conversations, I do
feel empowered by being able to come together with you
(24:28):
and continue to put our voice out there. Regardless of
what six Dipson of This Nation says. I don't ever
want to give up my voice and I want to
continue uplifting and sharing the voices of our community on
this podcast as well. So that's given me hard as well,
which is why I reached out after a few days
of us just sort of like marinating in our feelings
of like I do actually think I want to talk
about this because I don't really want to stay silent
(24:51):
and have my voice taken from me.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
I want to keep doing that on this platform totally.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Well, thanks for listening today.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
You know, for those of you that probably feel very
simil to us, our inbox is always open. You can
find us at coming Out Black or Instagram. Coming Out
Back Black, Blak at gmail dot com is our emails.
You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, Spotify, anyway that
you can get your podcasts, and we have a very
(25:20):
exciting announcement coming up very soon, which we will tell
you in a couple of episodes time.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Thank you all for hanging in there with us.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
We go on little hiatuses for months at a time,
but we know that when we do return that we're
welcomed with open arms by people that listen to us.
So yeah, yeah, thank you so much for supporting our
voice and continue to continuing to do so as we
head into season three.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
All Right, see you next time
This podcast is recorded on Stolen Land. We acknowledge and
pay our respects to our elders, past, present, and for
future generations. Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm a Teeka and I'm Courtney, and we're too Queer
First Nations women passionate about representation for our community. We
created this podcast to share our stories. We want you
to join us on the.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Journey you're listening to Coming Out Black.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
It's been a hard week, but I'm really glad that
we were able to actually come together in person today
to I guess, unpack how we're feeling currently and talk
about where to from here. That's the question I think
a lot of people are asking, but let's start with
how we're feeling.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (00:47):
How have you been feeling in this week post the result?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, Look, I think, like many of us, a mixture
of anger, disappointment, not surprised.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I don't know what the word is for that emotional whiplash.
For sure.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I feel a little bit like a bit of a
joke really, almost like why do we pay for a
national survey to.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Find out that Austray is still racist?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
You know? I am disappointed for a lot of people
that I know have put their heart and soul and
everything into the campaign. I really feel for our younger
people who can't vote, who will probably be, you know,
attributed the consequence of this vote going the way that
(01:42):
it did.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
So you know, that's that's how I feel. How about you?
How are you feeling?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I feel like I'm going through so many emotions, even
with a little bit of space that we've had from
the result. I think my initial reaction was also unsurprised, unfortunately,
Like I'm so disappointed and I'm genuinely so disgusted by
the nation that we are at the moment, but unfortunately
(02:13):
not surprised at all, Like I'm so ashamed of this country. Obviously,
we already have a shameful history, and there's so much
work to be done on truth telling and educating people
about that.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
But to see this.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Be the result, it feels like a slap in the face,
and it feels like people don't care. Like I was
sitting at a panel event yesterday getting ready to tell
part of my story and talk about why I think
this podcast is important, why I felt that us sharing
our voice on this platform was important, and beforehand I
(02:49):
just felt like, am I going out there to an
audience who doesn't give a fuck? Am I going out
there a sixty percent of people who actually don't care?
And that's been really hard to grapple with this week.
Because we do. We use our voices through this podcast
in what I think is a powerful way and helps people.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
To feel like they're not alone.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And to have Australia say we actually don't want you
to have a voice to Parliament made me angry and upset,
but also, like you, not surprised that the country shows up.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, and I honestly thought common sense and humanity would
prevail in this one.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
You would think it has been really interesting to I
guess not. I don't even think the word interesting is right.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
But you know, there's got to be some accountability for
the absolute liares and bs that's been tossed through. Yeah,
you know, I know that. I think journalism has been
pretty tight. I think they haven't really crossed as much
as they could. But there's politicians that have outrightly lied
(03:59):
about so many things to do with our people, and
they should be held responsible for that.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
How, but you know, I think it's just utterly disappointing
that so much has been done in that way, not
for the actual big picture goal that anyone has achieved,
But it's just for own individual political gain, and I'm
not surprised that our people have been put as.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
The you know, collateral damage in.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
This people's political gain.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Yeah, yeah, absolute mess.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Do you think that without the misinformation that came from
the No campaign, that the Australian people would have voted?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yes, yeah, I do.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Actually, I really do think if there wasn't so much
misinformation and so much targeted hysteria around the lack of detail, bullshit,
it's just not true. And we've we've never once cared
about the detail of other laws that get pasted or Yeah,
(05:09):
constitutional change is only one mechanism that we couldn't seem
to get that right. And I think if we were
able to just view it as just an advisory group.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Which it was supposed, which is what it is.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, you know, I think the general everyday Australian, no
matter what their political view, would have seen that that
was appropriate. And it's yeah, it's very unfortunate to see
what happened instead of what should have been a very
easy simple answer.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
And then my other question is do you think that
the progressive No vote, particularly that coming from First Nations
people's also hurt collectively the larger First Nations group.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, I think it's hard, right, we can't all get
along all decide, And I think there were many reasons
for the progressive no. Unfortunately, whether they liked it or not,
they were looped in with the racist no. And it's
hard to it's hard to kind of separate, unfortunately. And
(06:20):
you know, people had many reasons to vote no. As
part of our community, they had a lot of reasons
to do so. And I think what they did do
was enable other people who did have a more racist
or I don't know what the right word as.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
A bias undertone to it.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, because this Aboriginal person is saying no, I can
use that as the reason I'm saying no. One Really
there's an unconscious bias, and there's a mistrust of Aboriginal people,
which I think we've seen coming from the you know,
we need to order, we need to audit. As a
result of the NO, I think a lot of the
people who were like, oh, well, First Nations people don't
want this, and now also we need to order them.
(07:02):
It's this mistrust of our community and our people in general.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, and I think a lot of people don't realize
what a what are NO meant either.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
You know, we've got people up home my way Gari.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So Fraser Island got its its heritage name writturned, and
there's a lot of people up there against it, and
they honestly just thought if they voted, know that that
name would be restored.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Oh yeah, which is not true.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
It didn't happen, but like, you know, it's it's that
kind of misinformation or people just think they can be
racist now, yeah, which which was the I guess the
most discussing part of the whole NO campaign was people
were able to tie in their neo Nazi, anti black,
(07:51):
you know views into something that was you know, just
a political one up from one party to another. And yeah,
it's just horrific. And I hope that you know, both
the progressive nos and the you know, Liberal party voters
(08:11):
that you know followed their leader who do care about
our people, will lead that will lead that solution to
what we do now with all this you know, very
direct disgusting racism. This, this survey or referendum put a
mirror up to the country to take a look at itself.
(08:33):
And I think there's a lot of us that should
be really disappointed with the outcome. And when I see us,
I mean non indigenous people to look at each other
and talk about, you know, why are out here is
you know, viewing other humans this way? Why?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
What is uniting about? What just happened?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, you know, after all of the talk about division,
like look where we've landed, Look where this country has landed.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I haven't really asked many people this because I think
I know the answer. But where were you, you know,
referendum night, and what was your reaction.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
To yeah, to the no.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I unfortunately was at home alone, which is such a
bum my. Partner had an awards night for hockey that
she had to go to. So I was a home
alone and I was watching the Point and that's I
tuned in, and it was like, oh, like it's pretty
much been called, like the show start at SEVENOT thirty. Yeah,
(09:35):
it was clear from the numbers we haven't got this.
And I ordered myself from KFC and I sat there
and I watched the Point, and then in the discussion
that was unfolding, and the votes, and then of course
like the press conference and those sorts of things, and
I just remember feeling disappointed. I felt not only alone
(09:56):
because I was at home alone, but alone in sense
of this country doesn't care. This country has chosen to
stay as it is, and that's because it works for
the majority of other people. Like Australia could not make
a decision that was in support of and helped a
minority for fear that it would change the privilege that
(10:18):
they currently live in. So I just remember being really
hurt and upset about that, and yeah, I just sort
of was quiet for the night. Teaken came home, gave
me a hug. She bought me a video game I've
been really wanting for a while.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
And so I've been playing that.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
It's like here, I got you this, like maybe it'll
help distract you, which is really sweet of her.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah, that's what I was doing.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Where were you?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I was actually with some friends.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I was over on Minjeriba Strabock Islands with my partner
and her friends, celebrating her birthday. And I knew, obviously
in the day of leading up to the referendum account
that things weren't going well, and I've just kind of
opted to not be on social media, to not read
(11:01):
any news because I knew that I didn't want to
watch it fall out the way that it did, so
I wasn't watching. I sort of just really leaned into
the party that I was at.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
And yeah, then.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I checked my phone obviously because I wanted to know
if there'd been any news, and I think early on
there was, yeah, probably not some good stats, and then
it didn't look good, so I just kind of put
it down.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And then later on I when I.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Checked it, it was confirmed no, and I just Withdrew
and just I think I sat outside and just like
cried for like two hours, just like many of us,
I think, and then I just, yeah, I needed to
go to bed, and I didn't really really want to
speak about it pretty much until now, just going over
(11:58):
in your own mind, how you know how it.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Went wrong, how what this means now?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And yeah, and you know, just just it's just stung
a lot because I think almost we we had a
little bit of hope.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
I think I think I think that's what happened.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
It's like we actually thought maybe Australia could be ready
when the Prime Minister is supporting it.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
You know, I showed up Austraca, you.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Know, like we had rallies, we had people really getting
behind it large organizations, whether people thought that was authentic
or not. I think large corps are made up of
a lot of people, and a lot of those employees
of those places care about us and our mob too,
Like we don't got to kind of remember that as well,
(12:45):
you know. But yeah, I was just devastated, and I
think the the shock's gone away, but yeah, I think
there's a lot of bitterness that probably sits with with
all of us and disappointment, and yeah, I think I've
said those words a few times already, but yeah, it's
(13:05):
definitely how it feels.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
But those feelings are deep, and I think it's going
to take a long time for us to not even
not even heel it's gonna.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Take even longer to heal from this.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
But it's gonna take a long time for us to
even become back to a neutral place with this, Which
is why I wanted us to have like a conversation
of course, at a time when we were sort of
emotionally ready for it, but also, you know, I wonder
if we look back on this in a few months
and think, you know, do we think differently, do we
feel the same? What else has happened from this? But yeah,
(13:34):
I remember feeling really hopeful on voting day because I
went in and there was not a single no sign,
no campaigner, and I was like, oh my god, this
is like actually really good, Like maybe I've maybe my
social media has just been wrapped with like the loudest
people from the smallest group, like maybe this is a
really good thing. And then that was obviously dashed pretty
(13:55):
quickly quickly that afternoon.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
So yeah, but you.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Know, like I look get the stats, and we actually
did nearly get there as well. In some ways, I
think there's a lot of people that didn't vote, which
is an automatic. No. I think there's a few places
that it was you know, it was close, and so
I'm not completely disheartened in that way, Like I know,
(14:22):
I wish we didn't have to go through this process
to find out. But in some ways, there are more
more support than we've ever had.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Yeah, I think we've gained allies through this.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, I hope.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I think a lot of people have been educated, and
that's not you know, that's not top shelf, but it's something. Yeah,
but yeah, what do you think is next?
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Now?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
You know, for us, that's a good question, and I
think it's really hard to answer at this point in time.
What I hope happens next is I hope the allies
that joined us during this process continue to show up
post this, like I want to see them January twenty sixth.
I want to see them engaging with you know, Need
of Week, Reconciliation Week. I want to see them be
(15:03):
active champions in their own workplaces and families and friend
groups for our community. I hope to see that rather
than I think it's safer for a lot of non
Indigenous people who you know, have white privilege to be like, oh, okay,
sixty percent of people voted no, so I'll just slip
back into the shadows where I was prior to this.
(15:25):
I want them to stay strong and stand with us
on this because we need it. I think a lot
of people will feel emboldened to just continue to be like, well,
we don't care about this anymore. Like we all voted
on this, no one wants to talk about it anymore,
and we need those newfound allies to stand with us
while we go. Actually, no, we are still important. It's
just we just need to find a new route to change.
(15:46):
So I hope to see that happen.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And I hope holding others accountable as well in terms
of you know, commitments that they've made, for example, Queensland
going through the path for treaty. We know you've got
the Truth and the Justice Commission down in Victoria. We've
had commitments from states to get those things going. We've
got the voice that's running in South Australia. We want
(16:08):
to keep pushing and I really do hope and implore
you know, those of us who can you know, to
keep that pressure on our politicians to stay true to
that not back down just because of this referendum. That
shouldn't be an overall message of public approval of whether
we should care about abridginal Tosua Islander people or not.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Because of the.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Human beings and we've got you know, unique human rights
that you know sit underneath or sit specifically to the
needs and cultural rights of Reginald Tooshare Islander people that
we're not you know, we're not meeting still racisms that
at all time our desk and custody are through the roof.
(16:51):
Closing the gap just feels like it's something that you know,
it's an afterthought, it's a wish we're thinking rather than
something that's practically being managed, cared for, promoted disgust or
progress towards and that's been going for how many years now,
(17:14):
how many decades to at least, and I'm worried that
we're not going to get there if you know, if
we can't even get an advisory.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Group, change is always slower than we want and we
need it to be. I think there are a lot
of Australians who, in the aftermath of this, will come
to regret that decision to vote no, and they will
realize what a mistake this is. We've already started to
see the global reaction to Australia and this result, and
(17:45):
it's not good spoiler obviously, So I think in the
times to come, there will be people who look back
on this and think, I think I made a mistake there,
and I didn't fully like I would wrapped up in misinformation.
I was wrapped up in fear of losing something when
really all there was was something for a minority group
(18:07):
to gain.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, which in term could have helped us all.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah in general and create a better country that where
we live in.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
But you know, people are scared of change, and that
doesn't mean it's Okay, people discuss being conservative as a
reason to vote no. Yeah, I don't think you can associate,
you know, conservative traditional views with this decision. It's just
(18:37):
just say that you're racist.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Just say it, just.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
But yeah. I like to think people will will look
back in and regret it.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I do hope that this is this is moment in
time where we realize we've got a springboard in a
different direction and still do as much as we can
to empower First Nations communities to be set determined in
the way that they.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Approach their own affairs and you know, give.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Us the autonomy to close their own their own close
the gap.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
It's gonna say, close their own gaps.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
But they didn't feel right, you know, I really do.
I really do hope that that's what we get out
of this whole thing, and that continued support now now
that it's not a big media discussed item, that the
support continues, it remains authentic and mutually beneficial and mostly
(19:33):
beneficial to First Nations communities.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I was listening to the conversation between Maddie and Brooke
on not to PG always good to listen to other
mob and what their thoughts are on this and of course,
as to other queer First Nations individuals. They were talking
about how challenging it has been, in particular for mob
who are queer and First Nations to have gone through
to significant events in recent years of then they deciding
(20:00):
whether or not our voice matters, our rights.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Matter, that we matter to an extent. Have you felt
the weight of that?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, look, I think it does remind me of back then.
It does remind me the plever SciTE time. However, I
think the common sense didn't prevail in the same way
throughout the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
But yeah, it does take me back to that, and
it also just.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Makes me really concerned and worried about, you know, our
trans and non binary.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Mob and not mob.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Actually, I think if we can't get the basics of
a safe a plever site, a safe referendum, you know,
I do doubt what chances we do have in passing
important policy reform.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
For our trans and non binary people.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
But I do hope that in some ways because of
the pleb site, we can make more moves I guess
from a political, social, and law reform landscape for them,
and I hope that there is some attention turned towards
that in the next coming years. But if anything, you
just sort of feel like, how unfair it is that
(21:10):
we've allowed, were not allowed that the country is even
allowed to make some kind of decision about you when
they're not even really from your you know, from your
community or have the same lived experience as you, Like,
why should they have the majority power to make decisions
about you? But obviously that's capitalism and colonization. We know
(21:38):
that's where all that came from. But yeah, it's a
very unique feeling. I don't really know how to explain it.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I'm like, oh, yeah, you want to hope that we
never have.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
To hopefully we're done on nation voting on us just
for now. Body, Well, yeah, I guess off the back
of that, it just shows how important it is for
us to be practicing self care, the community to be
taking care of themselves. And I think the good thing
is that first Nation's mob and queer communities are so
good at collectively coming together, supporting one another, having this
(22:14):
beautiful chosen family and kinship network. And so I really
just hope that everyone is practicing that at the moment,
as hard as it may be. What does that look
like for you at the moment? I think it's just
spending time with people I love. I have really gotten into.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Gardening, like, okay, she's really in her like eighty year
old and honor era.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
I love that fear, lots of baking, you know, making preserves.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Oh okay, yeah, so I'm really doomsday.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But yeah, no, just spending time with loved ones.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
And just yeah, slowing down as much as I can
towards the end of the year, trying to take take
care of my physical and mental health.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
But yeah, yeah, that's.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Awesome for me.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
It has just been making sure I try and check
in with myself. I think I'm really bad at that
most of the time, and I just let things go
until someone around me is like, do you think maybe
you should talk to someone about this? Like I've noticed this,
So I'm just trying to be more cognizant and really
(23:20):
check in with myself and my body.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Like I've noticed that through the stress that is.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, when I say i've noticed, I mean my girlfriend
pointing this out to me that through the stress of
this and the disappointment and the outcome, like I've had
some really horrible eating habits and I am someone who
struggled with like not a great relationship with food, and
so after the referendum, I was just eating this just
one thing, and that one thing was KFC. While I
(23:46):
love KFC, it's not healthy to be eating that only
that by itself, and I mean, like my brain just
couldn't be like, you're either eating KFC or you're not
eating for the day and being able to have that
called out to me and me be like, all right,
I should really make sure I do something about this.
So I really want to make sure I'm calling out
(24:07):
anyone listening who like, if you just need to check
in with yourself for a second, be like, am I
like taking care of my body in my mind at
the moment, do that because I had to have it
called out to me, and just make sure that we're
doing things that we love. Like for me, I've been
distracting myself with the video game that I got. As
much as it's hard to have these conversations, I do
feel empowered by being able to come together with you
(24:28):
and continue to put our voice out there. Regardless of
what six Dipson of This Nation says. I don't ever
want to give up my voice and I want to
continue uplifting and sharing the voices of our community on
this podcast as well. So that's given me hard as well,
which is why I reached out after a few days
of us just sort of like marinating in our feelings
of like I do actually think I want to talk
about this because I don't really want to stay silent
(24:51):
and have my voice taken from me.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
I want to keep doing that on this platform totally.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Well, thanks for listening today.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
You know, for those of you that probably feel very
simil to us, our inbox is always open. You can
find us at coming Out Black or Instagram. Coming Out
Back Black, Blak at gmail dot com is our emails.
You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, Spotify, anyway that
you can get your podcasts, and we have a very
(25:20):
exciting announcement coming up very soon, which we will tell
you in a couple of episodes time.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Thank you all for hanging in there with us.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
We go on little hiatuses for months at a time,
but we know that when we do return that we're
welcomed with open arms by people that listen to us.
So yeah, yeah, thank you so much for supporting our
voice and continue to continuing to do so as we
head into season three.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
All Right, see you next time
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