November 22, 2023 • 36 mins
This week Courtney and Matika announce that Coming Out, Blak has joined the Blakcast Podcast Network!
In light of this partnership, the pair reflect on the journey of the podcast so far and summarise their coming out journey for new listeners.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This episode contains discussions of sensitive intriguering topics including domestic violence,
self harm, and suicide. Listener discretion is advised. This podcast
is recorded on Stolen Land. We acknowledge and pay our
respects to our elders, past, present, and for future generations. Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm Atika and I'm Courtney, and we're two queer First
Nations women passionate about representation for our community. We created
this podcast to share our stories. We want you to
join us on the journey.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
You're listening to Coming Out Black.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hello and welcome or welcome back to another episode of
Coming Out Black. We are so excited for you to
be joining us today because we have some really exciting news.
Not only are we doing in a bit of a
reintroduction to who we are, but we've.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Also just joined the Blackcast Network. Cotney tell us a
bit about it.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, Look, we're really excited. We have just been brought
onto Black Pass and it's the only Indigenous owned and
led podcast network that's financially and creative controlled by First
Nations people. So they, as in Blackcasts, have signed an
exclusive partnership with iHeartRadio. So it's great for us to
yeah be part of that team, and we're really looking
(01:12):
forward to, yeah, the partnership and also bringing everyone else
along the way. And yeah, the network are full of
amazing podcasters and we're looking forward to sharing some of
their work with you as well.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Absolutely, Yeah, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I feel like, you know, we've always been like a grassroots,
do it ourselves, record on our phone kind of podcast,
and it's amazing now to be able to get the
resourcing and support behind us, and hopefully you know, more
is listening to the podcast and first Nations Queer Stories as.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
We joined the network.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So I'm really excited for you know what, the next year,
next year after that, wherever we go from here.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
All the exciting things that did be.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Helme definitely, And in light of I guess our partnership,
we wanted to kind of reflect on the fact that
when we started this podcast we were both quite young,
I think about twenty three, twenty four, and you know,
our introductions now into a new audience through this partnership.
We'll probably find some people visiting our first episodes, which
(02:08):
are which are fine, but I feel like the audio
equality is a little bit different different today. But what
we really wanted to do this episode was kind of
give a reintroduction because I don't trust what she says.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Don't listen to us.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, though, but I feel like we are. Yeah, we've
we've grown a lot in the last few years, and
the podcast is been part of that journey. And I
think we almost owe it to the to the journey
itself to speak to who we are today and what
we care about and the purpose of the podcast and yeah,
what we want to see in the future. But yeah,
(02:46):
so I guess to kick it off, if you are
you know, some of our current listeners, or if you
are a new audience, welcome. And this is a passion
project that's really important to Mantigure and I as we
both identify as Queer First Nations, we both specifically identify
as lesbians, and we created this podcast to share in
(03:07):
champion stories of our mob who identify as First Nations
and part of the LGBTQIA plus community.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
So yeah, that's really why we started the podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I guess, you know, maybe if you are a new listener,
you're thinking sort of, who's this podcast for? Really, we
created the podcast so that other Queer First Nations individuals
felt I guess, let's alone in their own lived experiences
and identities. When we started, there really wasn't sort of
a lot of content at least that we could see
that was, you know, sharing our stories, speaking from our
(03:37):
lived experience.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
And secondly, this podcast is also for allies.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I know we have a lot of people who listen
because they're interested in learning more about our community, our experiences,
what we have to say about certain topics.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And we also just have a ton of Deli First
Nations mob that are doing some amazing things in community.
And there's a lot of initiatives, studies, grants, research, news
and achievements that we want to yeah, dig deep into
and tell those whole stories. And that's what I feel
like we yeah, really love to do for.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Those who may not have joined us through the whole journey.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I guess, what have been some highlights for you, Courtney,
Like things we've done or episodes we've had that you're like, oh,
I loved that.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Any highlights for you?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, the Tiaps. I think we've managed to meet some
incredible people and share their stories far and wide, from
the East East to the West Coast. And I've managed
to meet people who have like just literally come up
to me in the street and so that they listen
to the podcasts. I think the highlight has been our dms.
We've had so many first nations Mob reach out to us.
(04:42):
I had someone who couldn't find my personal Instagram page
when I had it down for a while. They even
went all the way over into LinkedIn to find me
to message me personally just to say thank you for
sharing my story and you know, sharing the stories about MOB.
And that's the I guess that was the purpose of podcast,
was to tell the stories that we wanted to hear
growing up. But it's also, Yeah, it's just really exciting
(05:04):
to see the youth, yeah, reaching out to us and
because that's exactly who I think, we've targeted our podcast
towards to really hear those, yeah, those voices and stories.
So that's my highlight.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Butlio, which is totally echoing what you're saying there, I
think some exciting things that we've also done in terms
of what we've been able to achieve as two people
sitting in our rooms.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I'm based in Sydney, courts based in Frizzy.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
We got this online and to know that we've you know,
we've done a live podcast show at a Festival of
a New Year's with be on the Valet. We've been
featured on Virgins in Flight Entertainment Systems. Some of our
podcast episodes like those things make me really proud that
we've seen the growth of people interested in this space,
(05:50):
but also other people sharing their stories, like there are
so many more First Nations podcasts at the moment, there
are so many more queer First Nations podcasts, and everyone's
starting to think more about when we're telling our stories.
We've got include the LGBT Plus community, which has been
really cool. So I've been proud to see how much
we've been able to grow so far, just like flying
solo and not really knowing what we're doing, and to
(06:10):
think of what's going to come next. Being part of
other blackcast network is super exciting. So I know you
talked a little bit Courtney about how incredibly different we
are from when we started this podcast, how we've grown,
how our life experiences have shaped us. I guess that
comes into sort of reintroduction episode of who Are You Now?
How would you describe yourself and what you're passionate about who.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I am now? I guess if I could introduce myself
now in short short form, I'd say I'm Courtney few Condy.
I'm a proud Butler and Gavi Gelby woman. I'm a
proud queer woman. I care deeply about my friends and
family and partner and dogs. And I'm at a stage
(06:55):
of my life where, yeah, self preservation and healing and
growth is really important to me. I work in the
sports industry. I try to engage mob into a sport
and engage sport into community, and it's something that I
really hold dear and feel like it's kind of some
(07:16):
of my purpose as well as trying to trying to
share stories and create discussion and about Yeah, I guess
the community we identify really heavily with and yeah, and
then I think, as we started the podcast, that used
to be kind of two separate things, and I think
now I've realized that by being myself, everything is kind
(07:38):
of intertwined, and the best way to show up is
to show up in all my forms, and that is
as a proud queer Indigenous woman that in that in community,
or in male white dominated spaces or in women dominated spaces,
I'm the same person regardless of the title. So yeah,
(08:02):
this is just kind of a I guess a way
for me to interweave it all. But yeah, so I
guess that's what I do. But I also reab I
sit on boards and advisory groups. I'm really passionate about
contributing to policy reform and advising on First Nations matters
(08:23):
if I can, and I will help I do. I
live really strongly by the three Bachelor laws, which is
what's good for country, must come first, and never take
something that is in yours, and if you have plenty,
you must share. And that's really Yeah, I think the
foundations of how I'm trying to live most of my life.
(08:47):
I make my decisions kind of based on that. So yeah,
and I guess my aspirations for the future is just
to find my little place in the world and find
ways to make impact. And I think these are those
kind of moments. And I didn't really recognize it, I
guess as much when we first started out how important
(09:11):
these stories actually are. But the more I reflect on
my own journey and how much I probably needed to
hear these stories and hear others and to see the
feedback up, I realized that, yeah, these stories are crucial
and we're part of a bigger Yeah, a bigger story
or continuation of our people's stories. And this is just
(09:32):
a I guess, a technological modern day version of Yeah
song lines.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Absolutely, God, how'd you get so good with the words?
Caught anyone who's new to the podcast? And I say
this all the time. There was a panel event that
we were both at a few weeks ago and I
was doing a puddle the day before you were doing
a paddle after me, and I was like, don't forget
to go see Acording tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
She's the wiser of the two of us.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I always love, love listening to your perspective on things
and your reflections on life and what matters to you.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
God. Who am I?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
It's a really hard question. I think I'd start similarly
to the way that you started. I'm a proud Graderie
and Camillory woman. I'm originally from Wogga, Wogga in regional
New South Wales. My family in general is largely from
the Griffeth Mission in that area, and then we eventually
moved to wog who my name was like, we're getting
out of the mission, and she packed everyone up in
the car and she moved. She moved to Wogga. I
(10:27):
identify as a lesbian. Really my care values in life
of family, community, culture, and being able to just move
through life in a way that spreads kindness and positivity,
uh into into thet the world. That sort of passion
for community. Growing up in a really big, proud Aboriginal
(10:48):
family where even though you know, we grew up in
a low socioeconomic community, like impacted by all of the
I guess stereotypical things that people in communities like that
often struggle with, things like drugs and alcohol, domestic violence.
I was still brought up in a way to think
that to be indigenous is to be successful in whatever
(11:10):
that is to you.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And I remember, really.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I remember my mum one day put her hands on
my shoulders and she said, look around, Atiki, you can
have more than this.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
So this idea of you.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Know, you can achieve anything and you can stand on
the shoulders of our elders and those who have worked
hard before us has always been ingrained with me. And
so that sort of led me into thankfully being able
to pursue a career that really aligns with my passions.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And I know not everyone gets to do that.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
So my nine to five really I work at creating
a workplace that is culturally safe, where mob feel connected,
where there are opportunities to grow. And then outside of work,
obviously I do the podcast here. I have an incredible partner,
Teak and who I love. It's actually our three year
anniversary the week that this episode comes up, so.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Hooray for us. I love life. I'm a triple cancer.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
So when I say I love love, I mean I
love love like you don't understand. I have a cat
who I adore. Her ning is KitKat. She's a proud
black cat, and she's treated like a brandchild of our
family because the rest of my said things will have kids.
So whenever we go home to visit, my name gets
her present, which is good.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Gosh.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
There's so much more that I'd probably say, but I
know that we'll explore that as we move through, and
even just on values, like we talked about Court, I
know that idea of what's good for the country is
good for us. I know we're going to be doing
an episode later around Christmas around how to care for
country during holidays when people are using more power, more
paper top presents, all those things, So keep an eye
out for that episode. But in terms of what I'm
(12:45):
looking forward for the future. A really big focus of
mine since actually burning out at the start of this
year and having to take some time off work and
figuring out what that looked like for me is recentering
myself on values, not putting things like my work even
though I care so much about it. And I'm sure
anyone who has a job they're really really passionate about
will understand that pull and drive to be like this
(13:06):
is important, is important.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
I have to do it.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Recentering myself on actually I'm important, and my family is important.
The time that I put into the family that I'm
building is important. Going back to country is important. So
I'm in a stage at the moment of recentering that
on my values and what I care about, which is
family and community and culture.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
And dude, that's like so important and a big inspiration.
I think it's hard to not get like really caught
up in the pressures of what, yeah, the corporate world
or I guess your job is telling you it's important
when sometimes you need to be the priority. So thanks,
that's this. You know. We're called coming Out Black. It's
(13:48):
a bit of a play on words. We originally kind
of titled it based on some of our discussions around
when you have a light complexion, sometimes you have to
come essentially like kind of come out as our first
nations will kind of declare your identity in spaces, and
we were talking about having various experiences that as well
(14:11):
as yeah, coming out as you know, part of coming
out as queer or coming out as lesbian or in
our circles, so sometimes you have to do both at
the same time. So integral to the title of the
name is our coming out stories as well. And I
wanted to ask you, Mitika about your coming out story.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Yeah. Absolutely. Now, I know those of you who have been.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
With us from the get go will know that the
first episode we ever released of the podcast was our
coming out stories. But in light of having changed as people,
I'm sure the way in which we tell our coming
out stories have changed as well.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
So I guess I'm gonna summarize his mind.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
But if you are interested in going back and sort
of hearing the detailed version of Court and I's coming
out stories, absolutely jump back to episode one and you
can you can then all of our old episodes that
were recorded.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
On our phones.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
But I guess, really my coming out story, I like
I said. I grew up in Wogga, Wogga, which is
a regional town in Australia, and I always described Woggle
as a bit of a fishbowl, you know, like you're
you're in the fishbowl and the rest there's this huge
world out there. There's so many different things, but you know,
when you're in the fishbowl, you don't necessarily know you're
(15:24):
in the fishbowl, which is to say there wasn't a
lot of room. I felt anyway in Wogga to be
different in any way, And so when I started to realize,
like it was a very stereotype. Oh I'm falling in
love with my best friend. Oh no, I have sleepovers
all the time. Don't ask me about it.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Like.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
And I was.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I just remember being terrified and truly thinking I was
the only person to ever experience this because I did
not see queerness anywhere until or not queenness that I
could recognize was quitness as well, So you know, I was.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
God, it must have been twelve or thirteen.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Or something, and I had my first girlfriend and it
was a secret, and I was so scared of being different,
and with that comes all of these what I know now?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Are you know? Fears embedded in nothing.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Because I have an incredible family who's who have been
such allies to me. They marched in the first Nation's
float and will go with me.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
My little sister.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Calindy said, being a lesbian suits you, and I was like,
thank you.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
So they're just I have an incredible family.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
But at the time, when I was, you know, thirteen
years old, I was so incredibly scared of being different,
and it wasn't really a safe school to be gay,
and either that my girlfriend at the time had to
leave school early because they were more masculine presenting. Actually
a trans man now, but I say girlfriend in terms
of have identified.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
At the time, I had to leave school early because.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
You know, kids would throw rocks at them and abuse
them and beat them up, basically because they were more
masculine presenting. So in my little thirteen year old brain,
I was like, oh, thank god, I'm straight passing and.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Look girly and I guess, you.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Know, people I can fly under the raidar a bit more,
I suppose, But yeah, I just remember feeling really scared
alone and that no one else in the world was
feeling when I was feeling, which obviously isn't true. And
thank god that wasn't true. And I also really struggled
to find representations of queer people that I feel aligned
with me, like. Eventually I realized that there were two
(17:38):
the lesbians at our school, but they were both more
masculine presenting as well. It was like Ellen DeGeneres on TV,
like any representation of queerness that I could easily find
because we didn't have the internet home. Oh I'm not
that old. Everyone internet the Internet was around. We were
just really poor and didn't have the Internet. Okay, so
I was things it was.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
It was very masculine.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
It was a very old stereotype of what a lesbian is,
and that obviously didn't align with me. So I felt
really confused about what I was. I didn't like guys.
And then there was a really dramatic breakup. I had
experienced domestic violence, like a lot of other women in
my family, had had to get a domestic violence order
out against some individuals around that and I that was
(18:25):
really public. The whole school found out about. My family
found out I had been dating my best friend. It
was a big drama, and thankfully my family was incredibly supportive, but.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Everyone else also.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Just for some reason, assumed it was just that one person,
and they were like, oh, yeah, yeah, you're not You're.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Not gay, you were just dating that one person.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
And I think there was a bit of a mindset
at the time that they had manipulated me, or that
you know, I was confused or something, and so I
was like, okay. For the next like four years, proceeded
to just date guys at school for like a two
months but at a time, and was very like, I'm,
(19:06):
you know, waiting for marriage, and all of these different
reasons as to why I couldn't sleep with them and
all these sorts of things. It probably wasn't a very
nice All of my boyfriends were really lovely because they
were the kind of boys who didn't care that I
didn't want to do things with them. I probably wasn't
very nice because if I'm honest, I didn't really care
about them in the way a girlfriend should care about someone.
But they were lovely, lovely boys, most of them. So,
(19:27):
you know, four years past, eventually I come out of
first year of university, and just every year since then,
I have become more and more of the person that
I'm supposed to be, more and more settled in my
power and my identity and being able to merge my
wedness in my blackness, which also was you know, a
bit of a you know, am I queer in this
space and black in this space?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Can they exist together?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
They didn't know anyone else who was aboriginal and a lesbian,
so everything that was bumping up against me. I was
just like, I'm so weird right now. But eventually all
of it came together and I ended up, you know,
being the person that I am to stay and just
every year I get gayer, every year I get blacker.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Not skinweiser, still don't tan, but you know, it is
what it is.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
But yeah, that's a little bit about me. And of
course you can go back and see that the more
detailed version in our first episode. But Courtney, what about
you and your sort of summary of your journey?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, look, I think I've I've always known, deep down
in the depths of my soul that I was gay.
I grew up really kind of classic chomboy, avril lavine
skater girl. I could do an oli but that was
about it, but I'd bet it my whole personality, you know, yeah, punk.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Then to sit there and say that you're a punk exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Exactly, but yeah, so you know, I guess some I
had different spaces of really safe spaces to be queer,
and that was sport. But then it was also kind
of the exact opposite experienced high school, you know, back
when we were in high school, and it wasn't it
was only ten just over ten years ago, but during
(21:08):
that time, you know, it was completely normal to have
someone tell gay and an aboriginal joke and call you
slurs like it was just normal and hilarious to most
people except the people that were getting it. But I know,
obviously those before us had worse experiences and worse experiences.
(21:29):
But I think where I was coming from was that,
I guess, at least my all the messages I guess
I was getting in the world from my family and
from those around me was that being gay was bad
and it was something that I really just couldn't, you know,
(21:49):
grackle my head around, and I really hated myself for that.
I was very ashamed of it for a long time.
I think there probably would have been periods of time
where I was, you know, a homophobic fourteen year old,
but like who even understands anything at that age, I
had a girl call me a dyke playing cricket, I
(22:10):
think when I was fifteen, and because she did that,
I immediately withdrew from a game that I really loved playing.
And it was just because I didn't want to hear
that ever again, because I knew that she was kind
of right, but it was just way too much for
me to even be able to handle. And I think then,
(22:34):
you know, when there were little rumors about me dating
boys or whatever, like, I just kind of went with
it because it was just easier than kind of coming
to terms with who I was. And yeah, you know,
so I guess when it came to actually kind of
letting myself go there, it took me, you know, a
(22:54):
few boyfriends kind of after high school, I had a
couple of like I had like a fling with a
girl that I met at a basketball tournament, who I
think should have been the first person that I that
I tried to explore that with, but I think I
just wasn't ready. And then I thought maybe I could
just like bury it under even more, like had a boyfriend,
(23:15):
and then when that finished, I think I was just
so kind of just like so ready to explore that
side of myself that I kind of, yeah, I jumped
into something and then yeah, I guess as part of that, Yeah,
like I remember that that kind of first kiss moment.
I don't know if you remember yours, Metika, but like
(23:36):
when you kiss a girl for the first time and
you know that you're gay, like it's it's just euphoric,
but it just makes everything makes sense, like it it
just it literally just like changed everything. And yeah, and
then I guess I've I've kind of well, I've never
looked back ever since, and I've never felt more I
guess safe and comfortable, like in relationships with women and stuff.
(23:59):
But before that, I guess, Yeah, coming out was really tough,
and I think that's maybe why I'm struggling to even
talk about it still, which I am really comfortable in
myself and I've I've always been comfortable with my career identity.
I think in terms of always, I mean probably in
the last like four years five years. So when I
(24:24):
realized like I sort of had to talk about it,
I had to kind of just because I held so
much like shame around it, even in my safest places,
which is sport in basketball, I had, you know, openly
out teammates that the rest of my team would talk
shit about like when they were in the room and
(24:46):
to do with their sexuality, and I was just like, like,
if that's how you guys see her, Like, that's clearly
how you would see me if I come out. But
I also know that there's there's a lot of different
kind of power dynamics in those those rooms. But when
you're young, like you can't really decipher that that either.
And you and back then, like I think it was
(25:07):
a really normal thing. This was way before the plebiscite
or anything like that. But yeah, so I knew I
had to kind of start opening up to people around me,
friends and family and kind of growing up in a
family who have, yeah, have had heavy indoctrination into the
Catholic Church. When I, I guess, came out, it wasn't
(25:31):
received well at all, and that put me in a
really compromising position and it really changed, I guess, my
trajectory of life in quite a negative way at the start.
But it's actually I guess, in turn, kind of really
instilled a purpose for me into why I'm doing what
I do. And you can't really change anything, but in summary,
(25:55):
when I came out, it it wasn't received well, and
I yeah, it was really really really broken hearted and
hurt by the way that I guess it was rejected
within some close circles that I really cared about. I experienced, yeah,
deep levels of depression, anxiety. I experienced, you know, suicidal thoughts.
(26:18):
I experienced periods of homelessness, sleeping in my car, slipping
on couches, living with friends, and I think sport was
something that stayed really consistent for me during those periods
of time, and no one really knew about it, you know,
and that I think in some time, like in some
(26:40):
ways really saved me from you know, ending my life,
which is something that I that I did nearly do.
And it was a coach that called me literally seconds
before before I tried to take my life just coincidentally.
He doesn't even like it didn't make any sense as
to why he was reaching out at the time now
(27:01):
I look back, but maybe just something in the ages
a blackfellow to Actually, I do think it was our
old people looking after me that yeah, like it was,
it was really really hard, and but it was that
moment that changed everything for me when I answered that
phone and when I hung up, I was really excited
(27:22):
about this cricket tournament that was coming up. But I
was playing and I think we were talking. He was
talking to me about like captain C and he was
asking me about, yeah, being the captain of the team.
I was just like, oh my god, like and then
in that conversation it completely distracted me from what I
was about to do. And we're talking, and then I
(27:43):
finished that phone call like so pumped for something that
happening in six months time that I was like, what
the fuck was I just doing? Like I'd nearly just
like like how am I supposed to do this? Like
I don't understand how I can fight? Like like I yeah,
so looking forward to that was something that really helped me,
But it also just made me make this decision in myself,
(28:06):
like I can choose, like I can. I'm just gonna
have to like find a way to live with this
and be proud of myself or I go back like
or I die, especially I go back into my shell,
I hate myself and I just keep living in this
(28:29):
like kind of cycle of pain and shame, which I
really didn't want to. And when I kind of made
that decision, it was like that just yeah, just changed everything.
And I think from that experience it didn't like it
kind of went the coming out, and like I guess
those periods of really hard times probably went over a
(28:51):
space of a couple to a few months, and now
like a few years later, those people that I really
struggle with now are the biggest allies, and you know,
we love each other more than anything, and we've come
a really long way. And I'm really glad that I
got to see that through because it is a really
(29:13):
healing experience despite everything that did happen before. It's just
like so important to like, yeah, to like, yeah, not
not take yourself out of these I didn't really mean
like to go down super super heavy on this, but
(29:33):
I think it's really important, like to like talk to
the realities of what happens in our experiences, but also
to like, I guess, really reinforce like that it's not
it's not the it's not the right option, Like it's
it's not the only solution. And our mob, more than
(29:53):
anyone are they have the highest precedence of self harm
and suicide. And as hard as it is to like
to talk about it, I think it's like it's incredibly
it's an incredibly pivotal part of my coming out story.
But just a message I want to share to you know,
(30:17):
those of us, And it's something that you know you
can't really control, but getting help is just like the
most important thing that you can do, and even if
it's not for yourself, it's for everyone around you. And yeah,
I'm really glad that I got that call when I did,
and that, yeah, that I didn't do what I set
(30:39):
out to do. Yeah, because now we can see here
and I think that now, you know, ever since in
this podcast has always kind of been for me, like
I did want to go through it all for nothing.
And if we can make you know, just a little
bit of difference into someone's day or for someone who's
(31:00):
quite on the edge to hear that, it does get better,
and it happens a lot quicker than you think. And
if you allow yourself to be really open to that
for things to get better, they will. But yeah, but
sounding really upset right now, I am really happy, how
the happiest in my life.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
But it's yeah, it's it's heavy to talk about those things.
And I just want to really truly thank you, Coot
for how incredibly brave you are to be able to
share a part of your story. I know, like we
know that there are people out there who are feeling
like that right now, and to see someone on the
other side of it, it's so incredibly powerful.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
I feel privileged to call you a.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Friend and and the and the the co host of
the podcast, and I'm so happy that I get to
continue this journey with you. You bring so much light
to everyone's life. So thank you for your bravery and
sharing part of your story as well.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Thanks Vi. No, I appreciate it, and you know, like
I know, and everyone goes through it. And I don't
really mean to kind of hier jack this this episode.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
You take the space you want, girl, that's the whole
point in this place.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
That's so true. But yeah, I appreciate heaps, and yeah,
I think, like if anything, like our community is growing
and growing and knowing, like I just really wanted to
share that that's story today. I think it's important and
it's a part of me and it's something I'm not
ashamed of at all, because it's it's why I'm here,
(32:29):
so like, its just it is so great to be here.
And I guess to wrap up the episode, I really
wanted to share what we're looking forward to in the
next few episodes on coming out Black Metika Do you
want to share?
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Absolutely, I am looking forward to having more guests on
the show, having a wider reach, to be able to
get some maybe more well known Queer First Nations individuals
on the podcast, but I still want to make sure
that we continue to have that focus on, you know,
community heroes, people who are making a difference in the
(33:03):
lives of people around Australia and who are just slowly
but surely making a massive difference in the lives of
Queer First Nations people today. So I'm really excited for
both elements to have some larger names on the podcast
and have access to that, but also to continue to
highlight incredible, you know, grassroot heroes and people who are
(33:25):
making a difference in their community. So I'm really excited
for that.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
What about you, Yeah, when I am looking forward to,
what I am really excited about is our next episode
where I sit down with Mikayla Hinkley, who is a
professional cricketer. She is a First Nations Queer woman and
just absolute laugh So really looking forward to hearing all
(33:48):
about her story and sharing that one far and wide,
and just the array of guests that we're going to
have yeah throughout next year in twenty twenty four. But
thank you all so much for joining us. Mitiga tell
everyone where to find us absolutely so. You can find
us at Coming Out Black, blak, on Instagram, on Facebook.
(34:09):
You can email us if you have a story that
you'd like to share, or if you'd like to be
involved in sponsoring or linking us with someone else whos
story you'd like to tell at Coming Out Black at
gmail dot com b lak again, and you can listen
to the podcast absolutely anywhere you find podcasts.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
We're really excited.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
And if you're sitting down, we're going to have episodes
come out each fortnighte yay, congratulations.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
We're finally committing to an actual This is when you're
going to get episodes. But what said this episode's you'll
be listening to this. I mean, if you're one of
the first people to listen.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
To it, you've listened so far, if they're even still
here right.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Thank you so much, you'll be listening to this.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
This is coming out on the twenty second of November,
so every fortnight on a Wednesday, you'll get a new episode.
Which is going to be really awesome. So, like we said,
we're having that great interview that Courtney did next fortnite,
and then the week after that, we're actually doing a
really cool episode that I'm looking forward to about caring
for country during the holiday period and making sure that
you know, country comes first when we are all visiting
(35:18):
family and getting gifts and all that sorts of things.
So that should be great as well. So I want
to make sure that if anything that you've heard on
the podcast today feels really heavy for you, or if
you feel like you need someone to talk to you
about it or about anything that your experiences as well,
we want to make sure that you have the contact
for one three Young. The one three Yarn is run
by Aboriginal Tochhode Island of People. It's a free and
confidential service available twenty four seven by mobile or payphone
(35:42):
that you can jump on the website even and their
Aboriginal in touch Rede Islander crisis support work.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
It's for you to be able to yarm too, So
that's one three Yarn.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Their number is thirteen nine to seventy six. Don forgot
to rate the podcast, share it with someone who might
like to listen to this and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
This episode is brought to you by the Blackcast Network
and produced by Clint Curtis.
This episode contains discussions of sensitive intriguering topics including domestic violence,
self harm, and suicide. Listener discretion is advised. This podcast
is recorded on Stolen Land. We acknowledge and pay our
respects to our elders, past, present, and for future generations. Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm Atika and I'm Courtney, and we're two queer First
Nations women passionate about representation for our community. We created
this podcast to share our stories. We want you to
join us on the journey.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
You're listening to Coming Out Black.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hello and welcome or welcome back to another episode of
Coming Out Black. We are so excited for you to
be joining us today because we have some really exciting news.
Not only are we doing in a bit of a
reintroduction to who we are, but we've.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Also just joined the Blackcast Network. Cotney tell us a
bit about it.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, Look, we're really excited. We have just been brought
onto Black Pass and it's the only Indigenous owned and
led podcast network that's financially and creative controlled by First
Nations people. So they, as in Blackcasts, have signed an
exclusive partnership with iHeartRadio. So it's great for us to
yeah be part of that team, and we're really looking
(01:12):
forward to, yeah, the partnership and also bringing everyone else
along the way. And yeah, the network are full of
amazing podcasters and we're looking forward to sharing some of
their work with you as well.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Absolutely, Yeah, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I feel like, you know, we've always been like a grassroots,
do it ourselves, record on our phone kind of podcast,
and it's amazing now to be able to get the
resourcing and support behind us, and hopefully you know, more
is listening to the podcast and first Nations Queer Stories as.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
We joined the network.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So I'm really excited for you know what, the next year,
next year after that, wherever we go from here.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
All the exciting things that did be.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Helme definitely, And in light of I guess our partnership,
we wanted to kind of reflect on the fact that
when we started this podcast we were both quite young,
I think about twenty three, twenty four, and you know,
our introductions now into a new audience through this partnership.
We'll probably find some people visiting our first episodes, which
(02:08):
are which are fine, but I feel like the audio
equality is a little bit different different today. But what
we really wanted to do this episode was kind of
give a reintroduction because I don't trust what she says.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Don't listen to us.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah, though, but I feel like we are. Yeah, we've
we've grown a lot in the last few years, and
the podcast is been part of that journey. And I
think we almost owe it to the to the journey
itself to speak to who we are today and what
we care about and the purpose of the podcast and yeah,
what we want to see in the future. But yeah,
(02:46):
so I guess to kick it off, if you are
you know, some of our current listeners, or if you
are a new audience, welcome. And this is a passion
project that's really important to Mantigure and I as we
both identify as Queer First Nations, we both specifically identify
as lesbians, and we created this podcast to share in
(03:07):
champion stories of our mob who identify as First Nations
and part of the LGBTQIA plus community.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
So yeah, that's really why we started the podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I guess, you know, maybe if you are a new listener,
you're thinking sort of, who's this podcast for? Really, we
created the podcast so that other Queer First Nations individuals
felt I guess, let's alone in their own lived experiences
and identities. When we started, there really wasn't sort of
a lot of content at least that we could see
that was, you know, sharing our stories, speaking from our
(03:37):
lived experience.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
And secondly, this podcast is also for allies.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I know we have a lot of people who listen
because they're interested in learning more about our community, our experiences,
what we have to say about certain topics.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And we also just have a ton of Deli First
Nations mob that are doing some amazing things in community.
And there's a lot of initiatives, studies, grants, research, news
and achievements that we want to yeah, dig deep into
and tell those whole stories. And that's what I feel
like we yeah, really love to do for.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Those who may not have joined us through the whole journey.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I guess, what have been some highlights for you, Courtney,
Like things we've done or episodes we've had that you're like, oh,
I loved that.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Any highlights for you?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, the Tiaps. I think we've managed to meet some
incredible people and share their stories far and wide, from
the East East to the West Coast. And I've managed
to meet people who have like just literally come up
to me in the street and so that they listen
to the podcasts. I think the highlight has been our dms.
We've had so many first nations Mob reach out to us.
(04:42):
I had someone who couldn't find my personal Instagram page
when I had it down for a while. They even
went all the way over into LinkedIn to find me
to message me personally just to say thank you for
sharing my story and you know, sharing the stories about MOB.
And that's the I guess that was the purpose of podcast,
was to tell the stories that we wanted to hear
growing up. But it's also, Yeah, it's just really exciting
(05:04):
to see the youth, yeah, reaching out to us and
because that's exactly who I think, we've targeted our podcast
towards to really hear those, yeah, those voices and stories.
So that's my highlight.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Butlio, which is totally echoing what you're saying there, I
think some exciting things that we've also done in terms
of what we've been able to achieve as two people
sitting in our rooms.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I'm based in Sydney, courts based in Frizzy.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
We got this online and to know that we've you know,
we've done a live podcast show at a Festival of
a New Year's with be on the Valet. We've been
featured on Virgins in Flight Entertainment Systems. Some of our
podcast episodes like those things make me really proud that
we've seen the growth of people interested in this space,
(05:50):
but also other people sharing their stories, like there are
so many more First Nations podcasts at the moment, there
are so many more queer First Nations podcasts, and everyone's
starting to think more about when we're telling our stories.
We've got include the LGBT Plus community, which has been
really cool. So I've been proud to see how much
we've been able to grow so far, just like flying
solo and not really knowing what we're doing, and to
(06:10):
think of what's going to come next. Being part of
other blackcast network is super exciting. So I know you
talked a little bit Courtney about how incredibly different we
are from when we started this podcast, how we've grown,
how our life experiences have shaped us. I guess that
comes into sort of reintroduction episode of who Are You Now?
How would you describe yourself and what you're passionate about who.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I am now? I guess if I could introduce myself
now in short short form, I'd say I'm Courtney few Condy.
I'm a proud Butler and Gavi Gelby woman. I'm a
proud queer woman. I care deeply about my friends and
family and partner and dogs. And I'm at a stage
(06:55):
of my life where, yeah, self preservation and healing and
growth is really important to me. I work in the
sports industry. I try to engage mob into a sport
and engage sport into community, and it's something that I
really hold dear and feel like it's kind of some
(07:16):
of my purpose as well as trying to trying to
share stories and create discussion and about Yeah, I guess
the community we identify really heavily with and yeah, and
then I think, as we started the podcast, that used
to be kind of two separate things, and I think
now I've realized that by being myself, everything is kind
(07:38):
of intertwined, and the best way to show up is
to show up in all my forms, and that is
as a proud queer Indigenous woman that in that in community,
or in male white dominated spaces or in women dominated spaces,
I'm the same person regardless of the title. So yeah,
(08:02):
this is just kind of a I guess a way
for me to interweave it all. But yeah, so I
guess that's what I do. But I also reab I
sit on boards and advisory groups. I'm really passionate about
contributing to policy reform and advising on First Nations matters
(08:23):
if I can, and I will help I do. I
live really strongly by the three Bachelor laws, which is
what's good for country, must come first, and never take
something that is in yours, and if you have plenty,
you must share. And that's really Yeah, I think the
foundations of how I'm trying to live most of my life.
(08:47):
I make my decisions kind of based on that. So yeah,
and I guess my aspirations for the future is just
to find my little place in the world and find
ways to make impact. And I think these are those
kind of moments. And I didn't really recognize it, I
guess as much when we first started out how important
(09:11):
these stories actually are. But the more I reflect on
my own journey and how much I probably needed to
hear these stories and hear others and to see the
feedback up, I realized that, yeah, these stories are crucial
and we're part of a bigger Yeah, a bigger story
or continuation of our people's stories. And this is just
(09:32):
a I guess, a technological modern day version of Yeah
song lines.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Absolutely, God, how'd you get so good with the words?
Caught anyone who's new to the podcast? And I say
this all the time. There was a panel event that
we were both at a few weeks ago and I
was doing a puddle the day before you were doing
a paddle after me, and I was like, don't forget
to go see Acording tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
She's the wiser of the two of us.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
I always love, love listening to your perspective on things
and your reflections on life and what matters to you.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
God. Who am I?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
It's a really hard question. I think I'd start similarly
to the way that you started. I'm a proud Graderie
and Camillory woman. I'm originally from Wogga, Wogga in regional
New South Wales. My family in general is largely from
the Griffeth Mission in that area, and then we eventually
moved to wog who my name was like, we're getting
out of the mission, and she packed everyone up in
the car and she moved. She moved to Wogga. I
(10:27):
identify as a lesbian. Really my care values in life
of family, community, culture, and being able to just move
through life in a way that spreads kindness and positivity,
uh into into thet the world. That sort of passion
for community. Growing up in a really big, proud Aboriginal
(10:48):
family where even though you know, we grew up in
a low socioeconomic community, like impacted by all of the
I guess stereotypical things that people in communities like that
often struggle with, things like drugs and alcohol, domestic violence.
I was still brought up in a way to think
that to be indigenous is to be successful in whatever
(11:10):
that is to you.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And I remember, really.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I remember my mum one day put her hands on
my shoulders and she said, look around, Atiki, you can
have more than this.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
So this idea of you.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Know, you can achieve anything and you can stand on
the shoulders of our elders and those who have worked
hard before us has always been ingrained with me. And
so that sort of led me into thankfully being able
to pursue a career that really aligns with my passions.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And I know not everyone gets to do that.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
So my nine to five really I work at creating
a workplace that is culturally safe, where mob feel connected,
where there are opportunities to grow. And then outside of work,
obviously I do the podcast here. I have an incredible partner,
Teak and who I love. It's actually our three year
anniversary the week that this episode comes up, so.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Hooray for us. I love life. I'm a triple cancer.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
So when I say I love love, I mean I
love love like you don't understand. I have a cat
who I adore. Her ning is KitKat. She's a proud
black cat, and she's treated like a brandchild of our
family because the rest of my said things will have kids.
So whenever we go home to visit, my name gets
her present, which is good.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Gosh.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
There's so much more that I'd probably say, but I
know that we'll explore that as we move through, and
even just on values, like we talked about Court, I
know that idea of what's good for the country is
good for us. I know we're going to be doing
an episode later around Christmas around how to care for
country during holidays when people are using more power, more
paper top presents, all those things, So keep an eye
out for that episode. But in terms of what I'm
(12:45):
looking forward for the future. A really big focus of
mine since actually burning out at the start of this
year and having to take some time off work and
figuring out what that looked like for me is recentering
myself on values, not putting things like my work even
though I care so much about it. And I'm sure
anyone who has a job they're really really passionate about
will understand that pull and drive to be like this
(13:06):
is important, is important.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
I have to do it.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Recentering myself on actually I'm important, and my family is important.
The time that I put into the family that I'm
building is important. Going back to country is important. So
I'm in a stage at the moment of recentering that
on my values and what I care about, which is
family and community and culture.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
And dude, that's like so important and a big inspiration.
I think it's hard to not get like really caught
up in the pressures of what, yeah, the corporate world
or I guess your job is telling you it's important
when sometimes you need to be the priority. So thanks,
that's this. You know. We're called coming Out Black. It's
(13:48):
a bit of a play on words. We originally kind
of titled it based on some of our discussions around
when you have a light complexion, sometimes you have to
come essentially like kind of come out as our first
nations will kind of declare your identity in spaces, and
we were talking about having various experiences that as well
(14:11):
as yeah, coming out as you know, part of coming
out as queer or coming out as lesbian or in
our circles, so sometimes you have to do both at
the same time. So integral to the title of the
name is our coming out stories as well. And I
wanted to ask you, Mitika about your coming out story.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Yeah. Absolutely. Now, I know those of you who have been.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
With us from the get go will know that the
first episode we ever released of the podcast was our
coming out stories. But in light of having changed as people,
I'm sure the way in which we tell our coming
out stories have changed as well.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
So I guess I'm gonna summarize his mind.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
But if you are interested in going back and sort
of hearing the detailed version of Court and I's coming
out stories, absolutely jump back to episode one and you
can you can then all of our old episodes that
were recorded.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
On our phones.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
But I guess, really my coming out story, I like
I said. I grew up in Wogga, Wogga, which is
a regional town in Australia, and I always described Woggle
as a bit of a fishbowl, you know, like you're
you're in the fishbowl and the rest there's this huge
world out there. There's so many different things, but you know,
when you're in the fishbowl, you don't necessarily know you're
(15:24):
in the fishbowl, which is to say there wasn't a
lot of room. I felt anyway in Wogga to be
different in any way, And so when I started to realize,
like it was a very stereotype. Oh I'm falling in
love with my best friend. Oh no, I have sleepovers
all the time. Don't ask me about it.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Like.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
And I was.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I just remember being terrified and truly thinking I was
the only person to ever experience this because I did
not see queerness anywhere until or not queenness that I
could recognize was quitness as well, So you know, I was.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
God, it must have been twelve or thirteen.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Or something, and I had my first girlfriend and it
was a secret, and I was so scared of being different,
and with that comes all of these what I know now?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Are you know? Fears embedded in nothing.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Because I have an incredible family who's who have been
such allies to me. They marched in the first Nation's
float and will go with me.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
My little sister.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Calindy said, being a lesbian suits you, and I was like,
thank you.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
So they're just I have an incredible family.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
But at the time, when I was, you know, thirteen
years old, I was so incredibly scared of being different,
and it wasn't really a safe school to be gay,
and either that my girlfriend at the time had to
leave school early because they were more masculine presenting. Actually
a trans man now, but I say girlfriend in terms
of have identified.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
At the time, I had to leave school early because.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
You know, kids would throw rocks at them and abuse
them and beat them up, basically because they were more
masculine presenting. So in my little thirteen year old brain,
I was like, oh, thank god, I'm straight passing and.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Look girly and I guess, you.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Know, people I can fly under the raidar a bit more,
I suppose, But yeah, I just remember feeling really scared
alone and that no one else in the world was
feeling when I was feeling, which obviously isn't true. And
thank god that wasn't true. And I also really struggled
to find representations of queer people that I feel aligned
with me, like. Eventually I realized that there were two
(17:38):
the lesbians at our school, but they were both more
masculine presenting as well. It was like Ellen DeGeneres on TV,
like any representation of queerness that I could easily find
because we didn't have the internet home. Oh I'm not
that old. Everyone internet the Internet was around. We were
just really poor and didn't have the Internet. Okay, so
I was things it was.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
It was very masculine.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
It was a very old stereotype of what a lesbian is,
and that obviously didn't align with me. So I felt
really confused about what I was. I didn't like guys.
And then there was a really dramatic breakup. I had
experienced domestic violence, like a lot of other women in
my family, had had to get a domestic violence order
out against some individuals around that and I that was
(18:25):
really public. The whole school found out about. My family
found out I had been dating my best friend. It
was a big drama, and thankfully my family was incredibly supportive, but.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Everyone else also.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Just for some reason, assumed it was just that one person,
and they were like, oh, yeah, yeah, you're not You're.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Not gay, you were just dating that one person.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
And I think there was a bit of a mindset
at the time that they had manipulated me, or that
you know, I was confused or something, and so I
was like, okay. For the next like four years, proceeded
to just date guys at school for like a two
months but at a time, and was very like, I'm,
(19:06):
you know, waiting for marriage, and all of these different
reasons as to why I couldn't sleep with them and
all these sorts of things. It probably wasn't a very
nice All of my boyfriends were really lovely because they
were the kind of boys who didn't care that I
didn't want to do things with them. I probably wasn't
very nice because if I'm honest, I didn't really care
about them in the way a girlfriend should care about someone.
But they were lovely, lovely boys, most of them. So,
(19:27):
you know, four years past, eventually I come out of
first year of university, and just every year since then,
I have become more and more of the person that
I'm supposed to be, more and more settled in my
power and my identity and being able to merge my
wedness in my blackness, which also was you know, a
bit of a you know, am I queer in this
space and black in this space?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Can they exist together?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
They didn't know anyone else who was aboriginal and a lesbian,
so everything that was bumping up against me. I was
just like, I'm so weird right now. But eventually all
of it came together and I ended up, you know,
being the person that I am to stay and just
every year I get gayer, every year I get blacker.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Not skinweiser, still don't tan, but you know, it is
what it is.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
But yeah, that's a little bit about me. And of
course you can go back and see that the more
detailed version in our first episode. But Courtney, what about
you and your sort of summary of your journey?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, look, I think I've I've always known, deep down
in the depths of my soul that I was gay.
I grew up really kind of classic chomboy, avril lavine
skater girl. I could do an oli but that was
about it, but I'd bet it my whole personality, you know, yeah, punk.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Then to sit there and say that you're a punk exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Exactly, but yeah, so you know, I guess some I
had different spaces of really safe spaces to be queer,
and that was sport. But then it was also kind
of the exact opposite experienced high school, you know, back
when we were in high school, and it wasn't it
was only ten just over ten years ago, but during
(21:08):
that time, you know, it was completely normal to have
someone tell gay and an aboriginal joke and call you
slurs like it was just normal and hilarious to most
people except the people that were getting it. But I know,
obviously those before us had worse experiences and worse experiences.
(21:29):
But I think where I was coming from was that,
I guess, at least my all the messages I guess
I was getting in the world from my family and
from those around me was that being gay was bad
and it was something that I really just couldn't, you know,
(21:49):
grackle my head around, and I really hated myself for that.
I was very ashamed of it for a long time.
I think there probably would have been periods of time
where I was, you know, a homophobic fourteen year old,
but like who even understands anything at that age, I
had a girl call me a dyke playing cricket, I
(22:10):
think when I was fifteen, and because she did that,
I immediately withdrew from a game that I really loved playing.
And it was just because I didn't want to hear
that ever again, because I knew that she was kind
of right, but it was just way too much for
me to even be able to handle. And I think then,
(22:34):
you know, when there were little rumors about me dating
boys or whatever, like, I just kind of went with
it because it was just easier than kind of coming
to terms with who I was. And yeah, you know,
so I guess when it came to actually kind of
letting myself go there, it took me, you know, a
(22:54):
few boyfriends kind of after high school, I had a
couple of like I had like a fling with a
girl that I met at a basketball tournament, who I
think should have been the first person that I that
I tried to explore that with, but I think I
just wasn't ready. And then I thought maybe I could
just like bury it under even more, like had a boyfriend,
(23:15):
and then when that finished, I think I was just
so kind of just like so ready to explore that
side of myself that I kind of, yeah, I jumped
into something and then yeah, I guess as part of that, Yeah,
like I remember that that kind of first kiss moment.
I don't know if you remember yours, Metika, but like
(23:36):
when you kiss a girl for the first time and
you know that you're gay, like it's it's just euphoric,
but it just makes everything makes sense, like it it
just it literally just like changed everything. And yeah, and
then I guess I've I've kind of well, I've never
looked back ever since, and I've never felt more I
guess safe and comfortable, like in relationships with women and stuff.
(23:59):
But before that, I guess, Yeah, coming out was really tough,
and I think that's maybe why I'm struggling to even
talk about it still, which I am really comfortable in
myself and I've I've always been comfortable with my career identity.
I think in terms of always, I mean probably in
the last like four years five years. So when I
(24:24):
realized like I sort of had to talk about it,
I had to kind of just because I held so
much like shame around it, even in my safest places,
which is sport in basketball, I had, you know, openly
out teammates that the rest of my team would talk
shit about like when they were in the room and
(24:46):
to do with their sexuality, and I was just like, like,
if that's how you guys see her, Like, that's clearly
how you would see me if I come out. But
I also know that there's there's a lot of different
kind of power dynamics in those those rooms. But when
you're young, like you can't really decipher that that either.
And you and back then, like I think it was
(25:07):
a really normal thing. This was way before the plebiscite
or anything like that. But yeah, so I knew I
had to kind of start opening up to people around me,
friends and family and kind of growing up in a
family who have, yeah, have had heavy indoctrination into the
Catholic Church. When I, I guess, came out, it wasn't
(25:31):
received well at all, and that put me in a
really compromising position and it really changed, I guess, my
trajectory of life in quite a negative way at the start.
But it's actually I guess, in turn, kind of really
instilled a purpose for me into why I'm doing what
I do. And you can't really change anything, but in summary,
(25:55):
when I came out, it it wasn't received well, and
I yeah, it was really really really broken hearted and
hurt by the way that I guess it was rejected
within some close circles that I really cared about. I experienced, yeah,
deep levels of depression, anxiety. I experienced, you know, suicidal thoughts.
(26:18):
I experienced periods of homelessness, sleeping in my car, slipping
on couches, living with friends, and I think sport was
something that stayed really consistent for me during those periods
of time, and no one really knew about it, you know,
and that I think in some time, like in some
(26:40):
ways really saved me from you know, ending my life,
which is something that I that I did nearly do.
And it was a coach that called me literally seconds
before before I tried to take my life just coincidentally.
He doesn't even like it didn't make any sense as
to why he was reaching out at the time now
(27:01):
I look back, but maybe just something in the ages
a blackfellow to Actually, I do think it was our
old people looking after me that yeah, like it was,
it was really really hard, and but it was that
moment that changed everything for me when I answered that
phone and when I hung up, I was really excited
(27:22):
about this cricket tournament that was coming up. But I
was playing and I think we were talking. He was
talking to me about like captain C and he was
asking me about, yeah, being the captain of the team.
I was just like, oh my god, like and then
in that conversation it completely distracted me from what I
was about to do. And we're talking, and then I
(27:43):
finished that phone call like so pumped for something that
happening in six months time that I was like, what
the fuck was I just doing? Like I'd nearly just
like like how am I supposed to do this? Like
I don't understand how I can fight? Like like I yeah,
so looking forward to that was something that really helped me,
But it also just made me make this decision in myself,
(28:06):
like I can choose, like I can. I'm just gonna
have to like find a way to live with this
and be proud of myself or I go back like
or I die, especially I go back into my shell,
I hate myself and I just keep living in this
(28:29):
like kind of cycle of pain and shame, which I
really didn't want to. And when I kind of made
that decision, it was like that just yeah, just changed everything.
And I think from that experience it didn't like it
kind of went the coming out, and like I guess
those periods of really hard times probably went over a
(28:51):
space of a couple to a few months, and now
like a few years later, those people that I really
struggle with now are the biggest allies, and you know,
we love each other more than anything, and we've come
a really long way. And I'm really glad that I
got to see that through because it is a really
(29:13):
healing experience despite everything that did happen before. It's just
like so important to like, yeah, to like, yeah, not
not take yourself out of these I didn't really mean
like to go down super super heavy on this, but
(29:33):
I think it's really important, like to like talk to
the realities of what happens in our experiences, but also
to like, I guess, really reinforce like that it's not
it's not the it's not the right option, Like it's
it's not the only solution. And our mob, more than
(29:53):
anyone are they have the highest precedence of self harm
and suicide. And as hard as it is to like
to talk about it, I think it's like it's incredibly
it's an incredibly pivotal part of my coming out story.
But just a message I want to share to you know,
(30:17):
those of us, And it's something that you know you
can't really control, but getting help is just like the
most important thing that you can do, and even if
it's not for yourself, it's for everyone around you. And yeah,
I'm really glad that I got that call when I did,
and that, yeah, that I didn't do what I set
(30:39):
out to do. Yeah, because now we can see here
and I think that now, you know, ever since in
this podcast has always kind of been for me, like
I did want to go through it all for nothing.
And if we can make you know, just a little
bit of difference into someone's day or for someone who's
(31:00):
quite on the edge to hear that, it does get better,
and it happens a lot quicker than you think. And
if you allow yourself to be really open to that
for things to get better, they will. But yeah, but
sounding really upset right now, I am really happy, how
the happiest in my life.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
But it's yeah, it's it's heavy to talk about those things.
And I just want to really truly thank you, Coot
for how incredibly brave you are to be able to
share a part of your story. I know, like we
know that there are people out there who are feeling
like that right now, and to see someone on the
other side of it, it's so incredibly powerful.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
I feel privileged to call you a.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Friend and and the and the the co host of
the podcast, and I'm so happy that I get to
continue this journey with you. You bring so much light
to everyone's life. So thank you for your bravery and
sharing part of your story as well.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Thanks Vi. No, I appreciate it, and you know, like
I know, and everyone goes through it. And I don't
really mean to kind of hier jack this this episode.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
You take the space you want, girl, that's the whole
point in this place.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
That's so true. But yeah, I appreciate heaps, and yeah,
I think, like if anything, like our community is growing
and growing and knowing, like I just really wanted to
share that that's story today. I think it's important and
it's a part of me and it's something I'm not
ashamed of at all, because it's it's why I'm here,
(32:29):
so like, its just it is so great to be here.
And I guess to wrap up the episode, I really
wanted to share what we're looking forward to in the
next few episodes on coming out Black Metika Do you
want to share?
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Absolutely, I am looking forward to having more guests on
the show, having a wider reach, to be able to
get some maybe more well known Queer First Nations individuals
on the podcast, but I still want to make sure
that we continue to have that focus on, you know,
community heroes, people who are making a difference in the
(33:03):
lives of people around Australia and who are just slowly
but surely making a massive difference in the lives of
Queer First Nations people today. So I'm really excited for
both elements to have some larger names on the podcast
and have access to that, but also to continue to
highlight incredible, you know, grassroot heroes and people who are
(33:25):
making a difference in their community. So I'm really excited
for that.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
What about you, Yeah, when I am looking forward to,
what I am really excited about is our next episode
where I sit down with Mikayla Hinkley, who is a
professional cricketer. She is a First Nations Queer woman and
just absolute laugh So really looking forward to hearing all
(33:48):
about her story and sharing that one far and wide,
and just the array of guests that we're going to
have yeah throughout next year in twenty twenty four. But
thank you all so much for joining us. Mitiga tell
everyone where to find us absolutely so. You can find
us at Coming Out Black, blak, on Instagram, on Facebook.
(34:09):
You can email us if you have a story that
you'd like to share, or if you'd like to be
involved in sponsoring or linking us with someone else whos
story you'd like to tell at Coming Out Black at
gmail dot com b lak again, and you can listen
to the podcast absolutely anywhere you find podcasts.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
We're really excited.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
And if you're sitting down, we're going to have episodes
come out each fortnighte yay, congratulations.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
We're finally committing to an actual This is when you're
going to get episodes. But what said this episode's you'll
be listening to this. I mean, if you're one of
the first people to listen.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
To it, you've listened so far, if they're even still
here right.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Thank you so much, you'll be listening to this.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
This is coming out on the twenty second of November,
so every fortnight on a Wednesday, you'll get a new episode.
Which is going to be really awesome. So, like we said,
we're having that great interview that Courtney did next fortnite,
and then the week after that, we're actually doing a
really cool episode that I'm looking forward to about caring
for country during the holiday period and making sure that
you know, country comes first when we are all visiting
(35:18):
family and getting gifts and all that sorts of things.
So that should be great as well. So I want
to make sure that if anything that you've heard on
the podcast today feels really heavy for you, or if
you feel like you need someone to talk to you
about it or about anything that your experiences as well,
we want to make sure that you have the contact
for one three Young. The one three Yarn is run
by Aboriginal Tochhode Island of People. It's a free and
confidential service available twenty four seven by mobile or payphone
(35:42):
that you can jump on the website even and their
Aboriginal in touch Rede Islander crisis support work.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
It's for you to be able to yarm too, So
that's one three Yarn.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Their number is thirteen nine to seventy six. Don forgot
to rate the podcast, share it with someone who might
like to listen to this and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
This episode is brought to you by the Blackcast Network
and produced by Clint Curtis.
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