April 23, 2024 • 40 mins
In this episode, Matika talks about her worst experience in the workplace! She discusses instances of cultural insensitivity, ageism, and racial stereotypes and how she was fired after raising her concerns.
Matika and Courtney discuss the importance of addressing these issues and creating culturally safe work environments and Courtney shares a light-hearted, awkward encounter to close out the episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is recorded on Stolen Land. We acknowledge and
pay our respects to our elders, past, present, and for
future generations.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
I'm a Teka and I'm Courtney, and we're two Queer
First Nations women passionate about representation for our community. We
created this podcast to share our stories. We want you
to join us on the journey.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
You're listening to Coming Out Black.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Welcome, well, welcome back to another episode of Coming Out Black.
Today's episode. I'm kind of excited for this one because
it's fun. We just thought, you know what, let's just
ship talk for an episode.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We're here, we're.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Queer, we are victims of the Caucusidy.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah, Courtney and I were having a chat. We're like,
what should we do for this episode. Let's record something today.
Oh my god, in person, we're together. Hi, we never
get to record in the room together, which I'm so
excited about.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
This is us high fiving. That was fucking.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
So Obviously Courtney and I are friends outside of the podcast,
and which means I talked to her about drama that
goes on in my life and around a year ago
just under maybe as having a major drama at the
place I was working and it was it was full
fucking on and I haven't talked about it publicly since,
but we thought, you know what, today, let's do an
episode on just fucked up situations and workplaces as black Fellows,
(01:32):
because boy do we have some stories.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Absolutely, and you know, to make sure that we don't
get in any strife. Just want it to be very
clear that we don't represent any organizations and none of
this is about anyone that's employed us at all, or
that we're employed with or that has employed us.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I don't know if that's true, at least for me.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Anyway, Well, I'm I'm gonna be telling a story today
and it is about an employer that that I was
employed by at a point in time. However, I'm not
affiliated with this company anymore. If you go on my LinkedIn,
you will not find this workplace. So if you jump
on there and you're trying to figure out who I'm
talking about, you won't find them because it's been wiped
(02:15):
from the internet that I had anything to do with
this company.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
We don't know them who she.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Just because like, I had a really horrible experience and
I don't want to have anything to do with them,
and I don't want the fact that I don't want
the fact that my community knows me and trusts me
to feel anything positive towards this business, because they're shit
and I had a horrible experience. So I've just wiped
(02:43):
my affiliation with them from the internet. So if you
find me connected with anything, it's not them. I don't
worry about it. It's not them, don't worry about it. So, yeah,
shall I just jump on into it? Or I had
joined this business. They were like a cultural capacity company,
(03:05):
and I was really excited for it to be a
like I really care about my community, my culture. I
spent the majority of my career educating people and working
to make white people care about stuff that's important to
our community. So of course I was like over the
moon for this opportunity to continue to do that work.
It was an organization that was run by two people.
(03:28):
One of them was a Fast Nations person and one
of them was a white person. And I was like, oh,
this is a good example of like, you know, reconciliation.
This is a great example of that. And during my
interview process, the white person get it together Galley.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
A white bird.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Anyway, So during my interview process, it was most of
the conversations were happening with the non Indigenous owner, and
I had just a shure oomed because I see the
best in everyone. I just assumed, oh, this person probably
handles X, Y and Z in the business, and the
First Nations person covered you know, writing the scripts and
doing all of the cultural stuff. I was wrong. So
(04:16):
when I had actually started in the business, I realized
really quickly that the Indigenous person didn't have a lot
to do with the way the company was being run.
And I very quickly had concerns around black clutting. I
was the only other First Nations person in the entire
business other than the other Indigenous owner, and I feel
(04:40):
like that's red flag, this is potentially a black heating organization.
But I was like, you know, my probation, I'm just
I'm gonna see maybe this was like the first few
days I had concerns, and as time goes on, there
were a few things that were happening that were a
bit concerning to me, like just the cultural safety and
(05:02):
cultural understand So one of the first things that had
happened was I was like doing all of my training
so that I could provide the training to our clients,
and the first session that I was gonna have where
I would be support facilitating was going to be at
Parliament House. So that was nerve wracking of like my
(05:24):
first time helping to run a session and it was
gonna be with the non indigenous owner. Now, usually the
non indigenous owner and the indigenous owner would run sessions together,
and I thought it was relatively even both of them
talking about to certain things. And so I had messages
in the day before of like, Hey, I know that
this person, the First Nation's owner, isn't going to be
(05:45):
there tomorrow and obviously so we don't have just the
non like just the white person doing the cultural training.
Here's what I feel comfortable facilitating based on where I'm
at with my training, like just to help, so you
know what I could facilitate and what you probably have
to do yourself. And she responded really poorly to that.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
I got this really.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Long text message back kind of belittling me and being
like I've worked in this space for thirty years and
you know when I was your age, I also was
really excited to get in, but you just have to
follow my lead and do the way do the things
that I wish I could get the text message I
read and I'm not gonna a really long message that
(06:29):
I don't think was warranted for me just going hey,
so that we don't have just the white person talking,
I didn't use that language. Here's what I could facilitate,
a really long belittling message. And I was like, oh, okay,
no problem, happy to follow your lead. But I was like, oh,
that was a bit uncomfortable, Like it felt like she
(06:50):
got caught by that by me saying that she shouldn't
facilitate this by herself, which I stand by. I don't
think white people should facilitate training, particularly by themselves at
Parliament House. So I go there, I'm the only First
Nations person in the room, and we're doing the training
and one section of it is talking about like lingo
(07:10):
and like accordy knows what's happening. Next, UH is talking
about like lingo and I guess like language the First
Nations people use. And there's a cartoon on the slide
just using some lingo and the non Indigenous owner goes
to read out that slide and puts on an Aboriginal
(07:32):
accent UH, And I was like, excuse me, well, I
had to pull I had to keep straight face. I
was like, I was fully shocked. I was like, this
is not happening right now. Are you serious? We're sitting
in Parliament House and you just you're putting on this nasally.
Anyone who's listening, you know that that stereotype like Tafani
(07:53):
from Black Comedy puts on an Aboriginal accent to explain
this this lingo and word like, let's just use the
example like deadly. You can just say deadly. You don't
need to put on an easily stereotypical accent. And I
was like, this is full on. I don't cannot believe
what just happened. So as we were leaving, part of
the process that I've been learning about in my training
(08:14):
is after each session we all do sort of like
a debrief and the lead facilitator gives feedback and the
and the support facilitator gives feedback. And so I was like, hey, like,
I'm going to send my feedback to you and you
can send yours to meet tomorrow and whatever. We'll follow
the process. And I could see that she was like, yeah,
I'll say I'll send you an email about it. I've
got to go, I've got another meeting and I was
(08:35):
like okay, and then I got pulled into a meeting
the next day. I think it was explaining to me
that oh, no, no, no, the support facilitators don't provide
feedback to the owners of the business. It's just for you,
and if anyone else was gonna be a lead facilitator,
that wasn't the owner of the business. And I was like, oh, okay.
First of all, I don't. I don't personally like, no
(08:57):
matter where I'm at in a business, I think that
there is something valuable for anyone at Eddie level to provide.
Never if I was even the CEO of a like
global business, I would still think that our most entry
level staff member would have something valuable to share with me,
like the attitude of you don't provide feedback to the
(09:20):
white owner of this company, only she provides feedback to you.
And I had to be like, okay, that's just not
what it said in my training. And also, I do
have really valuable feedback that I want to bring up
because something happened that made me feel really uncomfortable and
they're like, oh, well, what's that? And I explained what
(09:40):
had happened, and they were like oh okay, like I'll
take it away and whatever whatever. So I had to
have another meeting later in the week. This is probably,
like I want to say, three weeks into the job. Yeah,
like it was not.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
It was very early.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
One lasted for two seconds.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, it didn't even really. I get pulled into a
meeting with the owners and the non Indigenous owner was like,
you know, I'm sorry if I don't know, I don't
even know if she did say sorry. She was just like, oh, well,
the black owner told me to say it like that,
and I was like, that's really weird. Okay, well, like
(10:17):
it's really clear that you two have like a really
trusting relationship, a really positive relationship with each other. That's amazing.
Like it's really cool. If you feel comfortable talking and
lingo to your partner within an accent, Okay, if that's
what we're comfortable with, that doesn't extend to every First
Nations person, And it did make me feel really uncomfortable
(10:38):
and it did perpetuate a stereotype in my opinion, and
she was like okay, well sorry. It just sort of
ended there. So that was sort of strike one in
my books. The next thing that happened I'm trying to remember.
So we would be in sessions and they would constantly
be like, oh, you know, Matika is bringing down the
average age of the team, and Metikua this and they
(11:02):
would just make a lot of comments around my age
and me being young, to the point where eventually, again
this might have been like another two weeks later, I
had to jump into a meeting with the just like
on our weekly meeting, and I was like, oh, I
also wanted to mention like, I've noticed that you're you're
talking about my age a lot, not just in team
meetings but also with clients, and I would really appreciate
(11:22):
it if you would stop mentioning my age because obviously
if it was flipped and I kept talking about, you know,
this person's older and mentioning that you you were more
maturer aged, that would be considered ageist. And she was like, oh, okay,
I didn't even think about that, sorry, And I was like,
that's okay, all good. Like again, I always have a
positive about mindset about things, and it's not.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Like you're not eighteen and just finish uni. Yeah, and
they also knew what age you were when they hired you.
If they yeah, I had some kind of procedure.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Absolutely, it was a bit strange. I was organizing some
content for them, like educational content, and the theme for
that year was for our elders, and the white owner
sort of alluded to like, Oh, you know, I'm I'm
basically an elder too, but you know, obviously not an
(12:15):
Indigenous elder. And you're not wrong in that, like you
are of age an elderly person. But to say it
in the context of uh naytok week and and Aboriginal
elders don't. Don't pop yourself in the same category. It's
like someone when people are like refer to themselves as
(12:35):
like royalty or like you know, Jesus and stuff like that,
people are like, no, you're not Jesus. Like so that
was also a bit weird. I didn't say anything about that.
I just it was in my mind because by now,
like so many things had happened that I was like, oh,
I don't know about this place, Like this is all
happening within like a two month three month. It felt
like you know those people sometimes and they have like
(12:58):
a black partner, and they might work in the space
or they might like I really like love your culture,
really value it, and you start thinking like this person
wants to be black so bad. And there's that line
there of like, I'm so glad you love our culture.
I'm so glad that you're an active ally. You also
(13:20):
need to remember you are not the black person in
this space, and you constantly need to check yourself and
make sure that you're uplifting black voices. That's not me
saying I'm more important than you. That's not me saying
that I'm better than you. That's just me saying I've
been black since the day I was born, and you
(13:41):
have worked in this space for thirty Those two things
are different.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Like she cares appreciation and then appropriation.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
There's a difference. Like she just kept mentioning like I've
worked in this space for however long, and I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
And how long have you been black for?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Not one day, girl, not one day. So clearly a
bunch of things are happening in this workplace, some kind
of ageus stuff. She seems really uncomfortable with the fact
that I am like a competent, confident, like culturally connected
black woman who can do all the things that she
(14:19):
can do, even though she has been working in this
space for thirty years. Like that's how it felt to me,
Like maybe she felt like threatened by me because people
would value my voice in that space more than her own,
even though she was older than me, and even though
she had worked in this space for a long time.
(14:39):
I don't think it's wrong that people who have come
to learn about cultural safety and all these sorts of
things would value a black voice more. And I think
she had a real issue with it. And I would
never want to, you know, like I valued I constantly
told her like it's just so great that you know,
all this work, like this program that the two of
you have built together is really fantastic. But I just
(15:02):
think she she had a real issue with me. And
I tried really hard to make sure that I was
like non threatening and like I was trying to take
on her feedback. Like every single time I got any feedback,
I would be like, thank you for sharing that with me, whatever, whatever, whatever. Anyway,
So a bunch of stuff had happened, and one day
(15:24):
I get oh, also, so during that Nydog Week stuff,
I had gotten some feedback from the editor of the
content and they were like, oh, like I just think
that you're a bit disrespectful to the Indigenous person in
this section of the video. And I was like, oh
my god, like, that's total. I would never want to
be disrespectful to anyone. Can you tell me more about that?
(15:48):
And they were like, oh, well, they asked a question,
they answered it, and you agreed with them, and I
thought that that was disrespectful. Yeah, And I was like,
I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry you think that me
agreeing with the Aboriginal person is disrespectful. And I wasn't
(16:09):
talking in the way in like the attitude way I'm
talking now, like I was being really genuine. I was like,
I just really want to make sure that I'm understanding
your feedback, because like, I don't ever want to be disrespectful,
and if I don't understand what you're saying, I might
do it again, and I don't want to, obviously. And
the indigenous person was in the room at the time,
and I said like, oh my god, like, did you
feel disrespected like I would have thought I was bolstering
(16:29):
your cultural authority by agreeing with you? And they were like, no,
I didn't feel disrespected, and I was.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Like yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Then so that kind of went nowhere and I was like, oh,
And then the white person was like, oh, I don't
want to make a big deal of it, and I
was like, no, no, no, I absolutely don't want to make
a big deal of it. I just want to make
sure that, like, when you provide me feedback, that I
really truly, like make an effort to understand you, because
I don't I don't want to disrespect anyone. But I
left that being really confused. I was like, I don't
know how agreeing with someone's disrespectful. She's like might have been,
(16:58):
the tone might have been this. It was a bit
weird anyway, So we get to sort of like the
accumulation of all of these small things happening. I could
tell that the white owner really didn't like me very much,
and I was like trying really hard to be like
I'm trying to take on this feedback, like she just
seems to have an issue with everything I do. And
she invites me into a meeting with them and their
(17:19):
business coach, who was another white person who is American,
and I was like, oh, that's so strong, Like I
didn't say this to them. I was like, that's so strange,
Like I would have thought that'd been a perfect opportunity
to bring in like an indigenous consultant because this is
obviously within a really niche industry, and I'm sure that
that consultant had like so much to share in terms
of like scaling a business and financials and strategy and
(17:41):
those sorts of things. But it just felt like a
missed opportunity. But I was like, you know, you do
you it's your business. And they bring me into the
meeting and they were like, Oh, we're really keen to
hear your feedback on our our offerings within the business.
What you think, YadA, YadA, YadA. Would you be interested
in being on this project and stuff? And I was like, oh,
my god, thanks so much, Like here's my feedback. I
obviously just did training, so it's really fresh in my mind,
(18:02):
and I just pointed out some areas where I thought
we could improve, which is what they brought me to
the meeting to do. So I was like, Oh, if
I was a client and this happened, I would think
that that might be a bit of a duplication of
this training over here, so I'd be a little bit like, oh,
I already paid for that, So I was just giving
like feedback. I jump off the meeting. An hour or
(18:23):
so later, I get an automated email that has a
recording attached, and it's like, I guess an automated like
here's the meeting notes, And so I click on the
email obviously to check the notes to make sure that
everything's fine and like we got all the action items
and that kind of stuff. So I'm scrolling through and
(18:45):
at the bottom it's it says that they were talking
about and how disrespectful I am, And I was like,
surely that's a typo. Sure do I hang.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
On that crazy thing?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So I click on the recording because I'm surely that's
just type out something. Skip to the end. I've obviously
jumped off the call, and then you see me saying
like thanks so much for having me on, Like so
great to meet you. Bye, have a good evening. They
stayed on the call after I left, and as soon
as I'm off, the business coaches like, so, how'd you
feel about that? And then the white owner was just like, oh,
(19:20):
I just can't with her, Like did you see I
feel like I'm getting a lecture and e free time
she talk and just just goes on about all these
things that she like be hates about me, and I
was shocked.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
This is a I was like, I'm what.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
I was like, I can't believe this. You just asked
me to come on the meeting and provide feedback, which
I did, and I'm like, I'm not crazy if someone
might be listening being like, girl, maybe you are just
respectful when you were like the tone you were speaking
and stuff. I'm an excellent communicator, and I know for
a fact I was absolutely not just respectful. She was
mad because I was giving an opinion and I was
(20:02):
probably making some okay points, you know. Yeah, she just
was unhappy with with what I was saying. And the
business coach was like, oh, I think she did make
some good points, but like, yeah, no, I understand what
you were saying, which I don't think she did. She
was just like obviously they sometimes people surround themselves with yes. Man,
I don't know anyway. So I was like, oh my god.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
What.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So they continue to talk for like another fifteen minutes,
and I'm like, I'm here now, I'm gonna listen to
what's being said. I was in this meeting and it's
been sent to me, and they're just sitting there and
they're complaining about me and again saying really Age's stuff like, oh,
this is why I don't like working with gen zs you.
I know, I'm just like young person, gen Z. This
(20:49):
is why I hate working with young people. And I
was like, fuck, not.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Missing like ten years by the way, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Really ages staff and that she she said I'd been
late a bunch of times, and I was like, girl,
I've never been late for this job, like.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
That has actually been here two weeks. That's actually it's.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Been like two and a half months. And I was like,
that's actually like literally just a lie.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
It was a remote role. And I ended up saying
to this to the minute in a letter that I
sent later. I think that she was getting frustrated because
I would start like at ten, for example, but my
contract says I'm able to start any anywhere between us
like eight thirty and ten thirty or something, And I
was like, if you wanted me to start at nine, like,
ask me to start at nine. I'm not late because
(21:35):
I'm starting in between the window that my contract says
I can start at. Also, she'd sent me like text
messages at like six am the day of a thing
and was like she doesn't even reply to messages, and
I was like, I'm not entitled to respond to you
at six am.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
That's that's so.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
It was, Yeah, it was we. I think she had
an expectation that I should start at six am. I
start as soon as she wakes up and she jumps
on the lap job and if not, I'm late. I'm like, no,
I Mike track states that I can side anytime here.
I'm always on an hour. At one point in time,
she was like, oh, can you jump on an hour
before sessions? And I was like, yeah, sure, I can
do that. So some days I started earlier because the
session was earlier in the day or something. Anyway, so
(22:13):
they're complaining about all these things. She was just lying
about stuff. And then she says, oh, you know what
her problem is. She needs to embrace her whiteness. And
I was like, I did not just hear that.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
I had to take it.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I had to take it back to rewind for a second,
and I was like, she needs to embrace her Where
did that come from? You were just complaining about me
being young, and she's like, she needs to embrace her whiteness.
And then the again white American business coach is like, look,
if she's ashamed of her whiteness, then that's something she
(22:49):
needs to work on. And they're having a full conversation
about my blackness and how and how I don't act
white enough for the color of my skin basically, and
it was like it all became so abundantly clear that
this woman was not happy with how I chose to
(23:15):
be black, either because her idea of blackness was something else,
or that because my skin is light, I need to
act in a certain way that she feels as appropriate
for the fact that I have mixed heritage, even though
I've grown up in an aboriginal family, Like, what do
you want me to visit Scotland or something like, I
(23:36):
don't know anything about that heritage.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I grown up with family crest.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Why don't you know what Scottish person married your great
great great grade? And I was like, this is actually,
this is fully fucked. It was I was shocked. And
so they're having this conversation about, you know, how I
(24:02):
need to embrace my whiteness, because clearly, any black person
who has mixed heritage, why on earth wouldn't they uphold
the white part of their ancestry. Exactly, I'm so confused,
as like, she clearly has something in her mind around
how white people act, how black people act, and how
(24:24):
someone who looks like me should act. And I was like,
I will, i will live out my lived experience of
being an Aboriginal woman in the way that is authentic
to me and how I've grown up. I'll be informed
by my cultural values, my family values, and my lived experience.
Anything outside of that, that's actually your issue, and it's
(24:48):
I just felt like it was so and I said
this to them. I was like, that idea of because
I have mixed heritage, that I need to embrace whiteness
in the way that you see fit is so steeped
in assimilation policies. It's so steeped in, well, you know,
(25:08):
this child now has a black mother and a white father,
so thankfully they can come into the white area of town,
and thankfully they can assimilate and embrace their whiteness and
the blackness will.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Just die out.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Like it's I don't know how she doesn't understand how
that idea of because I have mixed territors, I need
to embrace this white part of me is steeped in.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
That, and how dangerous it is to perpetrate that kind
of messaging. Yes, in any kind of place, Yeah, especially
that one.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
So how is the apology?
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Oh that's funny.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
So after this, I'm like, this is full on.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I send an email and I say, hey, I've just
seen this recording. I'm really concerned about some of the
things that were said. I think it was like a
Wednesday or something, and I won't be working for the
remainder of the week while I think about how best
we move forward from this, you know, regards Matika. They
(26:10):
get back to me maybe an hour or two later,
and they're like, oh, we are mortified you saw that
private conversation. No apology. Not one time did they say
sorry that entire email when mortified you saw that private conversation.
There's a session tomorrow morning. Can you please work? I'm paraphrasing, obviously,
(26:32):
but and I was like absolutely not, Like you don't
get to to say this horrific, ageist, culturally insensitive stuff
about me at a meeting where I was providing valuable
feedback for your business that I was asked for and
then asked me to come run a session for you
the next day. And I was like, unfortunately, I won't
(26:55):
be doing that, like I said, I'll see you next
week when I'm back, and then they locked me out
of everything that I can't get into my email, They
remove the recording all these things, but I didn't figure
that out until next week. I didn't know that they
had locked me out immediately after I said no, I
(27:16):
won't be in work for the remainder of the week.
So Monday comes around, they actually reschedule that meeting and
they send an email as well, saying, oh, your probation
meeting has been moved up, And I was like, these
guys are really about to fire me because I've just
called out. What's happened? You're moving my probation meeting up.
(27:37):
I didn't do anything wrong just then, and they rescheduled
to the next day. In between that time, they'd sent
me like a probation document to fill out, which I
couldn't open because they'd locked me out of everything, and
then went to email and say, hey, I actually can't
get into this email. And I didn't know that i'd
been locked out. I was like, actually can't get into this, Like,
(27:59):
I don't know if the settings wrong. Am I locked
out of stuff? I'm really confused, And they were like, yeah,
we can confirm that you have been locked out of
everything until the resolution of your probation interview. And I
was like, my god, these guys really so they give
me access to that document and I fill it out.
I noticed that there was a section of the probation
(28:21):
where they talk about my performance and these sorts of things,
and then also plans for the future. They just didn't
fill it out, so it was really obvious that they
were planning to fire me. I was like, you just
didn't fill out the section of like next steps, where
to go from here? And it's probably a good time
to mention that all of the feedback I have received
from the business was glowing. Other than like, oh, can
(28:43):
you edit how you would answer this question kind of thing,
all of the feedback that I got from clients and
the sessions that I was running glowing. Everyone was like,
she's fantastic, She's such an asset to the business. Everyone
else in the business was like, we're so glad that
you're here full what is it three six.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Which one three sixty means you're back where you started?
Speaker 3 (29:10):
And now you know she's late and she's this and
all this, all this negative feedback and I was like,
you haven't addressed any of this, apparent. They said that
they talked to other team members and the other team
members felt disrespected, and I was like, really, because I
was in a meeting yesterday and everyone was saying how
happy they were that I was here, and now apparently
(29:31):
everyone feels really disrespected, Like, I don't understand how this
happens so fast, and you've moved my probation meeting up.
So in between that time I filled out the document,
I also wrote them a letter just outlining my experience
thus far and saying I really want us to be
able to discuss sort of where to you from here.
I said, hey, this is what happened in Parliament House,
this is what happened with the sort of ageous comments
(29:52):
that I asked about. Here are a few other things
that happened, and here's what happened in that recording, Like
these things have made me feel like really upset and
culturally unsafe and YadA, YadA YadA. So I sent that
to them prior to the meeting, like I'm really looking
forward to being able to discuss these and reaching like
a resolution. So we get in that meeting, the First
(30:14):
Nation's owner runs the first half of the meeting, which
is probably the first meeting i'd seen her run, and
basically like went through the letter I had sent and
said like, oh, so let's like address your complaint first this,
and then you know, the person was like, oh, I
told her that she could say that, and then the
next thing she was like, well, actually you could look
(30:35):
at it this way around. The comment of I need
to embrace my whiteness. The not the First Nations person
was like, actually, that was a comment from me, but
I wasn't in that meeting, so she was just saying
what I had thought, and I was like, okay, but
I think they thought that just by saying, oh, the
First Nations person actually was the one who said all
(30:57):
these things, and you just heard it from the person
would fix in it. And I just had to be like,
that's really unfortunate, Like that doesn't make it okay. I
still feel the way I feel about things more disappointing
now it's directed to you. I still think that that's
that's not okay to say that I need to embrace
my whiteness as an Aboriginal woman, or that there's a
certain way I need to be black. That's that's the
(31:18):
right way for you. I still don't think it's okay
that that accent was put on in Parliament House in
front of clients. I still don't think it's okay that
these age's things were said to me. Just saying that
you said them instead doesn't and I don't even know
if that's true. You might just be saying that now, yeah,
And you know, they just sort of like palmed them
(31:39):
all to the side and was like this, this, that, that,
and I was like, okay, all right, then sure, and
then they move onto the probation. They say all their
negative things about me, and I was like, I'm just
really confused about where this is coming from, because it's
not in line with the feedback I was receiving previously.
And they sort of took up the whole meeting, and
then at the end, I was like, I'm really aware
that I haven't had the chance to sort of say
(32:01):
my piece in this meeting. I'd love to do that
and sort of address some of the things that you've
written down here in my probation review. And they're like,
we actually have a meeting in a second, so we
don't have time for that. And I was like, Okay, Well,
I'll just send you an email with a few of
my notes because I think a few of these things
are just factually incorrect and i'd really obviously love for
(32:24):
like your notes to reflect that that didn't happen or
whatever whatever. And they're like yeah, yeah, sure, sure, okay,
so they hang up. I send the email of like, hey,
I'm just dressing a few of these things that you wrote.
This didn't happen or I think that's being misconstrued or whatever.
And then two hours after that, I get an email
saying I have been fired and I didn't pass my
(32:45):
probation and that's starting immediately. Even though I meant to
get one week's notice. They were like, we'll pay you
at your one week's notice, Like as soon as I
sent it feels like for me, as soon as I
sent the email saying hey, I've seen this recording and
I'm really concerned about it, they were like, get her
out of here, get her out of here. And that
(33:05):
was the worst experience I've ever had with a business.
And it breaks my heart. Knowing that it is a
Supply Nation certified business, it is considered an Aboriginal owned
business because remember there's fifty Aboriginal ownership, even though the
(33:26):
only Aboriginal people in that business were myself and the
other owner. And I, yeah, so this was this was
an absolute horror experience from me. Never have I felt
so disrespected, Never have I felt so culturally unsafe and
really disappointed that the firstation's owner didn't stick up for
(33:47):
me and God and so obviously I told you all
that at the time, and you were like, what the fuck.
But again, like any any business that I am affiliated
with currently or Thore's on my LinkedIn, don't worries not them,
you won't find them all.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
What I might do is because that was so hectic,
I'll finished with like a funny wove story, because this
stuff happens in smaller ways every day, Like just as
your many microaggressions turned into a large very aggression like macroaggression,
whatever you want to call it, you know, being we
get this ship every day in some way, shape or form,
(34:26):
and I have more of a funny one to finish
on because because sometimes they like you know, people's people
being oblivious or not, I'm not really understanding what they're saying,
and stuff is sometimes the funniest part of my work.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Day.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
So, you know a few years ago, even maybe even
further back than that, we had a CEO. We had
a big event. He forgot to do an acknowledgment Country.
I didn't bring it up. Heaps people in business were like, hey,
what the hell? Anyway, slack And a couple of days
go by and then he comes. Then he rocks up
like down on like we had to separate officers. He walks,
(35:01):
he looks, he walks down to my office and then
we're like hot desking with a bunch of people, right
and he just finished, just finished a meeting that was catered.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
So I had a piece of cake, Like I'm just
like reliving this moment.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
He had a piece of cake. It is like in
his hand on a plate. It was like crumble like
crumbs going everywhere. He walks up to me. I'm sitting
down like doing my work on my computer. He just
like randomly walks up like everyone's kind of like looking
at him because he's CEO, you know, and here he
goes Courtney.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I would just like to apologize.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
For for missing that acknowledgment of Country. It wasn't on
my notes and it will never happen again. And I
was like, okay, no worries, like very serious, like, but
he was just it was quite loud. It's quite loud,
and like so everyone was just like looking at this
interaction and like it was just directed at me.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Just apologize to meet nobody else.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
I was like, oh, like like you know, I'm like,
oh no, mate, look mate, all good accidents happened, you know,
you know, if you ever need help, you know, with
some of the wording or anything, just just let me know.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
We've got some heaps of resources. Blah blah.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Anyway, and he's like, oh, like, what are you doing
this weekend? And I was like, oh, you know, there's
a there's a festival on in town. I think I
was going home to Brisye and you know, at the event,
there are these like certain things that are happening. And
one of them was like, you know, newborns and other
new babies you know, are getting smoked like smoky sound right,
(36:33):
And I was like, yeah, I'm like looking forward to that.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
And he's like yeah, cool, cool anyway, talking about his kids.
But and then he goes to y he's starting to
walk out the building. I was like, goat to see
a lava.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Take care. He's done to.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Walk out, and then he calls out to me, like
in front of him, maybe like two one hundred and
fifty people in that office, just yells, booms it out
of his lungs, right, I think, guys, Cody and I
was like, I just just turn my head. I was like, oh, yes,
(37:07):
you guys, good luck with the smoking.
Speaker 5 (37:11):
Oh my god, stay deadly, and then walks out, stay deadly,
good luck with the smoking, stay deadly.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Looks out full confidence.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
One only black fellow at the work too, right, So
everyone's looking at me like, one, I'm smoking, he should
be good luck on that. Now everyone thinks it's gonna
be okay to tell me to stay deadly.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
So did they?
Speaker 1 (37:54):
No, they're educated people.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
But that's so funny. He was really trying with that.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
All that's now. No, that was probably one of the
most my favorite interactions.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah, it was a good one.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
I'm crying. That's fine.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
I'm glad we ended on a funny one.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Another day in the quality take care of yourselves.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Oh Jesus, all right, well there you go. There's my
hectic story that I've been holding on to for months now,
and I just thought it was important to share because
like it's been eating me up. I like, I have
nightmares about this job, not like super frequently, but like
about how I was treated and how I was made
to feel. And I just think it's important to talk
(38:48):
about those things because too often we like just take
it and we go, well, that was horrible. Now I
have to move on and try and find another place.
And thankfully I'm now on a job that I honestly love.
I love my job. It's all around creating a culturally
safe workplace. It's flexible. I have a black manager who
supports me fully, like it's so good, so like honestly
blessing in the guys. But yeah, if you have a hectic,
(39:11):
crazy work story, honestly write it into us or like
messages and come on the podcast and tell your story.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah, we're so keen to do like a work horror
stories or even just like well just horror stories like yeah, series,
there's so many, and for every funny one, there's a
sad one. Every sad one there's funny ones. So love
to share it on Coming Out Black.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, all right, well you can find us at Coming
Out Black blak on Instagram, Facebook. I think we're something
at TikTok soon. There's nothing there yet, but you know
you'll see and you can email us it Coming Out
Black Again Blak at gmail dot com if you want
to come on the podcast, or just write in your
horror story anonymously and we can read we can read
(39:53):
it out. I think of it really fun, and.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Our nomination lines are open to you know, we've had
a few people suggest and nominate people to be interviewed.
If there's an amazing queer black person around you that
you think, you know, we'd love like that. You know,
society in general would benefit from hearing their story like
we all would, even just us. We'd love to tell
it and we love to share it. So yeah, all.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Right, stay deadly, good luck.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Smoking, We're out.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Bye.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Thanks so much for listening to another episode of Coming
Out Black. You can find us on Coming Out Black
b la K on Instagram, Facebook, and anywhere you find
your podcasts. Be sure to follow, rate, and review us
whenever you're listening
This podcast is recorded on Stolen Land. We acknowledge and
pay our respects to our elders, past, present, and for
future generations.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
I'm a Teka and I'm Courtney, and we're two Queer
First Nations women passionate about representation for our community. We
created this podcast to share our stories. We want you
to join us on the journey.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
You're listening to Coming Out Black.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Welcome, well, welcome back to another episode of Coming Out Black.
Today's episode. I'm kind of excited for this one because
it's fun. We just thought, you know what, let's just
ship talk for an episode.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We're here, we're.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Queer, we are victims of the Caucusidy.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah, Courtney and I were having a chat. We're like,
what should we do for this episode. Let's record something today.
Oh my god, in person, we're together. Hi, we never
get to record in the room together, which I'm so
excited about.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
This is us high fiving. That was fucking.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
So Obviously Courtney and I are friends outside of the podcast,
and which means I talked to her about drama that
goes on in my life and around a year ago
just under maybe as having a major drama at the
place I was working and it was it was full
fucking on and I haven't talked about it publicly since,
but we thought, you know what, today, let's do an
episode on just fucked up situations and workplaces as black Fellows,
(01:32):
because boy do we have some stories.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Absolutely, and you know, to make sure that we don't
get in any strife. Just want it to be very
clear that we don't represent any organizations and none of
this is about anyone that's employed us at all, or
that we're employed with or that has employed us.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I don't know if that's true, at least for me.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Anyway, Well, I'm I'm gonna be telling a story today
and it is about an employer that that I was
employed by at a point in time. However, I'm not
affiliated with this company anymore. If you go on my LinkedIn,
you will not find this workplace. So if you jump
on there and you're trying to figure out who I'm
talking about, you won't find them because it's been wiped
(02:15):
from the internet that I had anything to do with
this company.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
We don't know them who she.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Just because like, I had a really horrible experience and
I don't want to have anything to do with them,
and I don't want the fact that I don't want
the fact that my community knows me and trusts me
to feel anything positive towards this business, because they're shit
and I had a horrible experience. So I've just wiped
(02:43):
my affiliation with them from the internet. So if you
find me connected with anything, it's not them. I don't
worry about it. It's not them, don't worry about it. So, yeah,
shall I just jump on into it? Or I had
joined this business. They were like a cultural capacity company,
(03:05):
and I was really excited for it to be a
like I really care about my community, my culture. I
spent the majority of my career educating people and working
to make white people care about stuff that's important to
our community. So of course I was like over the
moon for this opportunity to continue to do that work.
It was an organization that was run by two people.
(03:28):
One of them was a Fast Nations person and one
of them was a white person. And I was like, oh,
this is a good example of like, you know, reconciliation.
This is a great example of that. And during my
interview process, the white person get it together Galley.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
A white bird.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Anyway, So during my interview process, it was most of
the conversations were happening with the non Indigenous owner, and
I had just a shure oomed because I see the
best in everyone. I just assumed, oh, this person probably
handles X, Y and Z in the business, and the
First Nations person covered you know, writing the scripts and
doing all of the cultural stuff. I was wrong. So
(04:16):
when I had actually started in the business, I realized
really quickly that the Indigenous person didn't have a lot
to do with the way the company was being run.
And I very quickly had concerns around black clutting. I
was the only other First Nations person in the entire
business other than the other Indigenous owner, and I feel
(04:40):
like that's red flag, this is potentially a black heating organization.
But I was like, you know, my probation, I'm just
I'm gonna see maybe this was like the first few
days I had concerns, and as time goes on, there
were a few things that were happening that were a
bit concerning to me, like just the cultural safety and
(05:02):
cultural understand So one of the first things that had
happened was I was like doing all of my training
so that I could provide the training to our clients,
and the first session that I was gonna have where
I would be support facilitating was going to be at
Parliament House. So that was nerve wracking of like my
(05:24):
first time helping to run a session and it was
gonna be with the non indigenous owner. Now, usually the
non indigenous owner and the indigenous owner would run sessions together,
and I thought it was relatively even both of them
talking about to certain things. And so I had messages
in the day before of like, Hey, I know that
this person, the First Nation's owner, isn't going to be
(05:45):
there tomorrow and obviously so we don't have just the
non like just the white person doing the cultural training.
Here's what I feel comfortable facilitating based on where I'm
at with my training, like just to help, so you
know what I could facilitate and what you probably have
to do yourself. And she responded really poorly to that.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
I got this really.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Long text message back kind of belittling me and being
like I've worked in this space for thirty years and
you know when I was your age, I also was
really excited to get in, but you just have to
follow my lead and do the way do the things
that I wish I could get the text message I
read and I'm not gonna a really long message that
(06:29):
I don't think was warranted for me just going hey,
so that we don't have just the white person talking,
I didn't use that language. Here's what I could facilitate,
a really long belittling message. And I was like, oh, okay,
no problem, happy to follow your lead. But I was like, oh,
that was a bit uncomfortable, Like it felt like she
(06:50):
got caught by that by me saying that she shouldn't
facilitate this by herself, which I stand by. I don't
think white people should facilitate training, particularly by themselves at
Parliament House. So I go there, I'm the only First
Nations person in the room, and we're doing the training
and one section of it is talking about like lingo
(07:10):
and like accordy knows what's happening. Next, UH is talking
about like lingo and I guess like language the First
Nations people use. And there's a cartoon on the slide
just using some lingo and the non Indigenous owner goes
to read out that slide and puts on an Aboriginal
(07:32):
accent UH, And I was like, excuse me, well, I
had to pull I had to keep straight face. I
was like, I was fully shocked. I was like, this
is not happening right now. Are you serious? We're sitting
in Parliament House and you just you're putting on this nasally.
Anyone who's listening, you know that that stereotype like Tafani
(07:53):
from Black Comedy puts on an Aboriginal accent to explain
this this lingo and word like, let's just use the
example like deadly. You can just say deadly. You don't
need to put on an easily stereotypical accent. And I
was like, this is full on. I don't cannot believe
what just happened. So as we were leaving, part of
the process that I've been learning about in my training
(08:14):
is after each session we all do sort of like
a debrief and the lead facilitator gives feedback and the
and the support facilitator gives feedback. And so I was like, hey, like,
I'm going to send my feedback to you and you
can send yours to meet tomorrow and whatever. We'll follow
the process. And I could see that she was like, yeah,
I'll say I'll send you an email about it. I've
got to go, I've got another meeting and I was
(08:35):
like okay, and then I got pulled into a meeting
the next day. I think it was explaining to me
that oh, no, no, no, the support facilitators don't provide
feedback to the owners of the business. It's just for you,
and if anyone else was gonna be a lead facilitator,
that wasn't the owner of the business. And I was like, oh, okay.
First of all, I don't. I don't personally like, no
(08:57):
matter where I'm at in a business, I think that
there is something valuable for anyone at Eddie level to provide.
Never if I was even the CEO of a like
global business, I would still think that our most entry
level staff member would have something valuable to share with me,
like the attitude of you don't provide feedback to the
(09:20):
white owner of this company, only she provides feedback to you.
And I had to be like, okay, that's just not
what it said in my training. And also, I do
have really valuable feedback that I want to bring up
because something happened that made me feel really uncomfortable and
they're like, oh, well, what's that? And I explained what
(09:40):
had happened, and they were like oh okay, like I'll
take it away and whatever whatever. So I had to
have another meeting later in the week. This is probably,
like I want to say, three weeks into the job. Yeah,
like it was not.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
It was very early.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
One lasted for two seconds.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, it didn't even really. I get pulled into a
meeting with the owners and the non Indigenous owner was like,
you know, I'm sorry if I don't know, I don't
even know if she did say sorry. She was just like, oh, well,
the black owner told me to say it like that,
and I was like, that's really weird. Okay, well, like
(10:17):
it's really clear that you two have like a really
trusting relationship, a really positive relationship with each other. That's amazing.
Like it's really cool. If you feel comfortable talking and
lingo to your partner within an accent, Okay, if that's
what we're comfortable with, that doesn't extend to every First
Nations person, And it did make me feel really uncomfortable
(10:38):
and it did perpetuate a stereotype in my opinion, and
she was like okay, well sorry. It just sort of
ended there. So that was sort of strike one in
my books. The next thing that happened I'm trying to remember.
So we would be in sessions and they would constantly
be like, oh, you know, Matika is bringing down the
average age of the team, and Metikua this and they
(11:02):
would just make a lot of comments around my age
and me being young, to the point where eventually, again
this might have been like another two weeks later, I
had to jump into a meeting with the just like
on our weekly meeting, and I was like, oh, I
also wanted to mention like, I've noticed that you're you're
talking about my age a lot, not just in team
meetings but also with clients, and I would really appreciate
(11:22):
it if you would stop mentioning my age because obviously
if it was flipped and I kept talking about, you know,
this person's older and mentioning that you you were more
maturer aged, that would be considered ageist. And she was like, oh, okay,
I didn't even think about that, sorry, And I was like,
that's okay, all good. Like again, I always have a
positive about mindset about things, and it's not.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Like you're not eighteen and just finish uni. Yeah, and
they also knew what age you were when they hired you.
If they yeah, I had some kind of procedure.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Absolutely, it was a bit strange. I was organizing some
content for them, like educational content, and the theme for
that year was for our elders, and the white owner
sort of alluded to like, Oh, you know, I'm I'm
basically an elder too, but you know, obviously not an
(12:15):
Indigenous elder. And you're not wrong in that, like you
are of age an elderly person. But to say it
in the context of uh naytok week and and Aboriginal
elders don't. Don't pop yourself in the same category. It's
like someone when people are like refer to themselves as
(12:35):
like royalty or like you know, Jesus and stuff like that,
people are like, no, you're not Jesus. Like so that
was also a bit weird. I didn't say anything about that.
I just it was in my mind because by now,
like so many things had happened that I was like, oh,
I don't know about this place, Like this is all
happening within like a two month three month. It felt
like you know those people sometimes and they have like
(12:58):
a black partner, and they might work in the space
or they might like I really like love your culture,
really value it, and you start thinking like this person
wants to be black so bad. And there's that line
there of like, I'm so glad you love our culture.
I'm so glad that you're an active ally. You also
(13:20):
need to remember you are not the black person in
this space, and you constantly need to check yourself and
make sure that you're uplifting black voices. That's not me
saying I'm more important than you. That's not me saying
that I'm better than you. That's just me saying I've
been black since the day I was born, and you
(13:41):
have worked in this space for thirty Those two things
are different.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Like she cares appreciation and then appropriation.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
There's a difference. Like she just kept mentioning like I've
worked in this space for however long, and I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
And how long have you been black for?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Not one day, girl, not one day. So clearly a
bunch of things are happening in this workplace, some kind
of ageus stuff. She seems really uncomfortable with the fact
that I am like a competent, confident, like culturally connected
black woman who can do all the things that she
(14:19):
can do, even though she has been working in this
space for thirty years. Like that's how it felt to me,
Like maybe she felt like threatened by me because people
would value my voice in that space more than her own,
even though she was older than me, and even though
she had worked in this space for a long time.
(14:39):
I don't think it's wrong that people who have come
to learn about cultural safety and all these sorts of
things would value a black voice more. And I think
she had a real issue with it. And I would
never want to, you know, like I valued I constantly
told her like it's just so great that you know,
all this work, like this program that the two of
you have built together is really fantastic. But I just
(15:02):
think she she had a real issue with me. And
I tried really hard to make sure that I was
like non threatening and like I was trying to take
on her feedback. Like every single time I got any feedback,
I would be like, thank you for sharing that with me, whatever, whatever, whatever. Anyway,
So a bunch of stuff had happened, and one day
(15:24):
I get oh, also, so during that Nydog Week stuff,
I had gotten some feedback from the editor of the
content and they were like, oh, like I just think
that you're a bit disrespectful to the Indigenous person in
this section of the video. And I was like, oh
my god, like, that's total. I would never want to
be disrespectful to anyone. Can you tell me more about that?
(15:48):
And they were like, oh, well, they asked a question,
they answered it, and you agreed with them, and I
thought that that was disrespectful. Yeah, And I was like,
I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry you think that me
agreeing with the Aboriginal person is disrespectful. And I wasn't
(16:09):
talking in the way in like the attitude way I'm
talking now, like I was being really genuine. I was like,
I just really want to make sure that I'm understanding
your feedback, because like, I don't ever want to be disrespectful,
and if I don't understand what you're saying, I might
do it again, and I don't want to, obviously. And
the indigenous person was in the room at the time,
and I said like, oh my god, like, did you
feel disrespected like I would have thought I was bolstering
(16:29):
your cultural authority by agreeing with you? And they were like, no,
I didn't feel disrespected, and I was.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Like yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Then so that kind of went nowhere and I was like, oh,
And then the white person was like, oh, I don't
want to make a big deal of it, and I
was like, no, no, no, I absolutely don't want to make
a big deal of it. I just want to make
sure that, like, when you provide me feedback, that I
really truly, like make an effort to understand you, because
I don't I don't want to disrespect anyone. But I
left that being really confused. I was like, I don't
know how agreeing with someone's disrespectful. She's like might have been,
(16:58):
the tone might have been this. It was a bit
weird anyway, So we get to sort of like the
accumulation of all of these small things happening. I could
tell that the white owner really didn't like me very much,
and I was like trying really hard to be like
I'm trying to take on this feedback, like she just
seems to have an issue with everything I do. And
she invites me into a meeting with them and their
(17:19):
business coach, who was another white person who is American,
and I was like, oh, that's so strong, Like I
didn't say this to them. I was like, that's so strange,
Like I would have thought that'd been a perfect opportunity
to bring in like an indigenous consultant because this is
obviously within a really niche industry, and I'm sure that
that consultant had like so much to share in terms
of like scaling a business and financials and strategy and
(17:41):
those sorts of things. But it just felt like a
missed opportunity. But I was like, you know, you do
you it's your business. And they bring me into the
meeting and they were like, Oh, we're really keen to
hear your feedback on our our offerings within the business.
What you think, YadA, YadA, YadA. Would you be interested
in being on this project and stuff? And I was like, oh,
my god, thanks so much, Like here's my feedback. I
obviously just did training, so it's really fresh in my mind,
(18:02):
and I just pointed out some areas where I thought
we could improve, which is what they brought me to
the meeting to do. So I was like, Oh, if
I was a client and this happened, I would think
that that might be a bit of a duplication of
this training over here, so I'd be a little bit like, oh,
I already paid for that, So I was just giving
like feedback. I jump off the meeting. An hour or
(18:23):
so later, I get an automated email that has a
recording attached, and it's like, I guess an automated like
here's the meeting notes, And so I click on the
email obviously to check the notes to make sure that
everything's fine and like we got all the action items
and that kind of stuff. So I'm scrolling through and
(18:45):
at the bottom it's it says that they were talking
about and how disrespectful I am, And I was like,
surely that's a typo. Sure do I hang.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
On that crazy thing?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
So I click on the recording because I'm surely that's
just type out something. Skip to the end. I've obviously
jumped off the call, and then you see me saying
like thanks so much for having me on, Like so
great to meet you. Bye, have a good evening. They
stayed on the call after I left, and as soon
as I'm off, the business coaches like, so, how'd you
feel about that? And then the white owner was just like, oh,
(19:20):
I just can't with her, Like did you see I
feel like I'm getting a lecture and e free time
she talk and just just goes on about all these
things that she like be hates about me, and I
was shocked.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
This is a I was like, I'm what.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
I was like, I can't believe this. You just asked
me to come on the meeting and provide feedback, which
I did, and I'm like, I'm not crazy if someone
might be listening being like, girl, maybe you are just
respectful when you were like the tone you were speaking
and stuff. I'm an excellent communicator, and I know for
a fact I was absolutely not just respectful. She was
mad because I was giving an opinion and I was
(20:02):
probably making some okay points, you know. Yeah, she just
was unhappy with with what I was saying. And the
business coach was like, oh, I think she did make
some good points, but like, yeah, no, I understand what
you were saying, which I don't think she did. She
was just like obviously they sometimes people surround themselves with yes. Man,
I don't know anyway. So I was like, oh my god.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
What.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So they continue to talk for like another fifteen minutes,
and I'm like, I'm here now, I'm gonna listen to
what's being said. I was in this meeting and it's
been sent to me, and they're just sitting there and
they're complaining about me and again saying really Age's stuff like, oh,
this is why I don't like working with gen zs you.
I know, I'm just like young person, gen Z. This
(20:49):
is why I hate working with young people. And I
was like, fuck, not.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Missing like ten years by the way, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Really ages staff and that she she said I'd been
late a bunch of times, and I was like, girl,
I've never been late for this job, like.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
That has actually been here two weeks. That's actually it's.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Been like two and a half months. And I was like,
that's actually like literally just a lie.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
It was a remote role. And I ended up saying
to this to the minute in a letter that I
sent later. I think that she was getting frustrated because
I would start like at ten, for example, but my
contract says I'm able to start any anywhere between us
like eight thirty and ten thirty or something, And I
was like, if you wanted me to start at nine, like,
ask me to start at nine. I'm not late because
(21:35):
I'm starting in between the window that my contract says
I can start at. Also, she'd sent me like text
messages at like six am the day of a thing
and was like she doesn't even reply to messages, and
I was like, I'm not entitled to respond to you
at six am.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
That's that's so.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
It was, Yeah, it was we. I think she had
an expectation that I should start at six am. I
start as soon as she wakes up and she jumps
on the lap job and if not, I'm late. I'm like, no,
I Mike track states that I can side anytime here.
I'm always on an hour. At one point in time,
she was like, oh, can you jump on an hour
before sessions? And I was like, yeah, sure, I can
do that. So some days I started earlier because the
session was earlier in the day or something. Anyway, so
(22:13):
they're complaining about all these things. She was just lying
about stuff. And then she says, oh, you know what
her problem is. She needs to embrace her whiteness. And
I was like, I did not just hear that.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
I had to take it.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I had to take it back to rewind for a second,
and I was like, she needs to embrace her Where
did that come from? You were just complaining about me
being young, and she's like, she needs to embrace her whiteness.
And then the again white American business coach is like, look,
if she's ashamed of her whiteness, then that's something she
(22:49):
needs to work on. And they're having a full conversation
about my blackness and how and how I don't act
white enough for the color of my skin basically, and
it was like it all became so abundantly clear that
this woman was not happy with how I chose to
(23:15):
be black, either because her idea of blackness was something else,
or that because my skin is light, I need to
act in a certain way that she feels as appropriate
for the fact that I have mixed heritage, even though
I've grown up in an aboriginal family, Like, what do
you want me to visit Scotland or something like, I
(23:36):
don't know anything about that heritage.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I grown up with family crest.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Why don't you know what Scottish person married your great
great great grade? And I was like, this is actually,
this is fully fucked. It was I was shocked. And
so they're having this conversation about, you know, how I
(24:02):
need to embrace my whiteness, because clearly, any black person
who has mixed heritage, why on earth wouldn't they uphold
the white part of their ancestry. Exactly, I'm so confused,
as like, she clearly has something in her mind around
how white people act, how black people act, and how
(24:24):
someone who looks like me should act. And I was like,
I will, i will live out my lived experience of
being an Aboriginal woman in the way that is authentic
to me and how I've grown up. I'll be informed
by my cultural values, my family values, and my lived experience.
Anything outside of that, that's actually your issue, and it's
(24:48):
I just felt like it was so and I said
this to them. I was like, that idea of because
I have mixed heritage, that I need to embrace whiteness
in the way that you see fit is so steeped
in assimilation policies. It's so steeped in, well, you know,
(25:08):
this child now has a black mother and a white father,
so thankfully they can come into the white area of town,
and thankfully they can assimilate and embrace their whiteness and
the blackness will.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Just die out.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Like it's I don't know how she doesn't understand how
that idea of because I have mixed territors, I need
to embrace this white part of me is steeped in.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
That, and how dangerous it is to perpetrate that kind
of messaging. Yes, in any kind of place, Yeah, especially
that one.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
So how is the apology?
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Oh that's funny.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
So after this, I'm like, this is full on.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I send an email and I say, hey, I've just
seen this recording. I'm really concerned about some of the
things that were said. I think it was like a
Wednesday or something, and I won't be working for the
remainder of the week while I think about how best
we move forward from this, you know, regards Matika. They
(26:10):
get back to me maybe an hour or two later,
and they're like, oh, we are mortified you saw that
private conversation. No apology. Not one time did they say
sorry that entire email when mortified you saw that private conversation.
There's a session tomorrow morning. Can you please work? I'm paraphrasing, obviously,
(26:32):
but and I was like absolutely not, Like you don't
get to to say this horrific, ageist, culturally insensitive stuff
about me at a meeting where I was providing valuable
feedback for your business that I was asked for and
then asked me to come run a session for you
the next day. And I was like, unfortunately, I won't
(26:55):
be doing that, like I said, I'll see you next
week when I'm back, and then they locked me out
of everything that I can't get into my email, They
remove the recording all these things, but I didn't figure
that out until next week. I didn't know that they
had locked me out immediately after I said no, I
(27:16):
won't be in work for the remainder of the week.
So Monday comes around, they actually reschedule that meeting and
they send an email as well, saying, oh, your probation
meeting has been moved up, And I was like, these
guys are really about to fire me because I've just
called out. What's happened? You're moving my probation meeting up.
(27:37):
I didn't do anything wrong just then, and they rescheduled
to the next day. In between that time, they'd sent
me like a probation document to fill out, which I
couldn't open because they'd locked me out of everything, and
then went to email and say, hey, I actually can't
get into this email. And I didn't know that i'd
been locked out. I was like, actually can't get into this, Like,
(27:59):
I don't know if the settings wrong. Am I locked
out of stuff? I'm really confused, And they were like, yeah,
we can confirm that you have been locked out of
everything until the resolution of your probation interview. And I
was like, my god, these guys really so they give
me access to that document and I fill it out.
I noticed that there was a section of the probation
(28:21):
where they talk about my performance and these sorts of things,
and then also plans for the future. They just didn't
fill it out, so it was really obvious that they
were planning to fire me. I was like, you just
didn't fill out the section of like next steps, where
to go from here? And it's probably a good time
to mention that all of the feedback I have received
from the business was glowing. Other than like, oh, can
(28:43):
you edit how you would answer this question kind of thing,
all of the feedback that I got from clients and
the sessions that I was running glowing. Everyone was like,
she's fantastic, She's such an asset to the business. Everyone
else in the business was like, we're so glad that
you're here full what is it three six.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Which one three sixty means you're back where you started?
Speaker 3 (29:10):
And now you know she's late and she's this and
all this, all this negative feedback and I was like,
you haven't addressed any of this, apparent. They said that
they talked to other team members and the other team
members felt disrespected, and I was like, really, because I
was in a meeting yesterday and everyone was saying how
happy they were that I was here, and now apparently
(29:31):
everyone feels really disrespected, Like, I don't understand how this
happens so fast, and you've moved my probation meeting up.
So in between that time I filled out the document,
I also wrote them a letter just outlining my experience
thus far and saying I really want us to be
able to discuss sort of where to you from here.
I said, hey, this is what happened in Parliament House,
this is what happened with the sort of ageous comments
(29:52):
that I asked about. Here are a few other things
that happened, and here's what happened in that recording, Like
these things have made me feel like really upset and
culturally unsafe and YadA, YadA YadA. So I sent that
to them prior to the meeting, like I'm really looking
forward to being able to discuss these and reaching like
a resolution. So we get in that meeting, the First
(30:14):
Nation's owner runs the first half of the meeting, which
is probably the first meeting i'd seen her run, and
basically like went through the letter I had sent and
said like, oh, so let's like address your complaint first this,
and then you know, the person was like, oh, I
told her that she could say that, and then the
next thing she was like, well, actually you could look
(30:35):
at it this way around. The comment of I need
to embrace my whiteness. The not the First Nations person
was like, actually, that was a comment from me, but
I wasn't in that meeting, so she was just saying
what I had thought, and I was like, okay, but
I think they thought that just by saying, oh, the
First Nations person actually was the one who said all
(30:57):
these things, and you just heard it from the person
would fix in it. And I just had to be like,
that's really unfortunate, Like that doesn't make it okay. I
still feel the way I feel about things more disappointing
now it's directed to you. I still think that that's
that's not okay to say that I need to embrace
my whiteness as an Aboriginal woman, or that there's a
certain way I need to be black. That's that's the
(31:18):
right way for you. I still don't think it's okay
that that accent was put on in Parliament House in
front of clients. I still don't think it's okay that
these age's things were said to me. Just saying that
you said them instead doesn't and I don't even know
if that's true. You might just be saying that now, yeah,
And you know, they just sort of like palmed them
(31:39):
all to the side and was like this, this, that, that,
and I was like, okay, all right, then sure, and
then they move onto the probation. They say all their
negative things about me, and I was like, I'm just
really confused about where this is coming from, because it's
not in line with the feedback I was receiving previously.
And they sort of took up the whole meeting, and
then at the end, I was like, I'm really aware
that I haven't had the chance to sort of say
(32:01):
my piece in this meeting. I'd love to do that
and sort of address some of the things that you've
written down here in my probation review. And they're like,
we actually have a meeting in a second, so we
don't have time for that. And I was like, Okay, Well,
I'll just send you an email with a few of
my notes because I think a few of these things
are just factually incorrect and i'd really obviously love for
(32:24):
like your notes to reflect that that didn't happen or
whatever whatever. And they're like yeah, yeah, sure, sure, okay,
so they hang up. I send the email of like, hey,
I'm just dressing a few of these things that you wrote.
This didn't happen or I think that's being misconstrued or whatever.
And then two hours after that, I get an email
saying I have been fired and I didn't pass my
(32:45):
probation and that's starting immediately. Even though I meant to
get one week's notice. They were like, we'll pay you
at your one week's notice, Like as soon as I
sent it feels like for me, as soon as I
sent the email saying hey, I've seen this recording and
I'm really concerned about it, they were like, get her
out of here, get her out of here. And that
(33:05):
was the worst experience I've ever had with a business.
And it breaks my heart. Knowing that it is a
Supply Nation certified business, it is considered an Aboriginal owned
business because remember there's fifty Aboriginal ownership, even though the
(33:26):
only Aboriginal people in that business were myself and the
other owner. And I, yeah, so this was this was
an absolute horror experience from me. Never have I felt
so disrespected, Never have I felt so culturally unsafe and
really disappointed that the firstation's owner didn't stick up for
(33:47):
me and God and so obviously I told you all
that at the time, and you were like, what the fuck.
But again, like any any business that I am affiliated
with currently or Thore's on my LinkedIn, don't worries not them,
you won't find them all.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
What I might do is because that was so hectic,
I'll finished with like a funny wove story, because this
stuff happens in smaller ways every day, Like just as
your many microaggressions turned into a large very aggression like macroaggression,
whatever you want to call it, you know, being we
get this ship every day in some way, shape or form,
(34:26):
and I have more of a funny one to finish
on because because sometimes they like you know, people's people
being oblivious or not, I'm not really understanding what they're saying,
and stuff is sometimes the funniest part of my work.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Day.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
So, you know a few years ago, even maybe even
further back than that, we had a CEO. We had
a big event. He forgot to do an acknowledgment Country.
I didn't bring it up. Heaps people in business were like, hey,
what the hell? Anyway, slack And a couple of days
go by and then he comes. Then he rocks up
like down on like we had to separate officers. He walks,
(35:01):
he looks, he walks down to my office and then
we're like hot desking with a bunch of people, right
and he just finished, just finished a meeting that was catered.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
So I had a piece of cake, Like I'm just
like reliving this moment.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
He had a piece of cake. It is like in
his hand on a plate. It was like crumble like
crumbs going everywhere. He walks up to me. I'm sitting
down like doing my work on my computer. He just
like randomly walks up like everyone's kind of like looking
at him because he's CEO, you know, and here he
goes Courtney.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I would just like to apologize.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
For for missing that acknowledgment of Country. It wasn't on
my notes and it will never happen again. And I
was like, okay, no worries, like very serious, like, but
he was just it was quite loud. It's quite loud,
and like so everyone was just like looking at this
interaction and like it was just directed at me.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Just apologize to meet nobody else.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
I was like, oh, like like you know, I'm like,
oh no, mate, look mate, all good accidents happened, you know,
you know, if you ever need help, you know, with
some of the wording or anything, just just let me know.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
We've got some heaps of resources. Blah blah.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Anyway, and he's like, oh, like, what are you doing
this weekend? And I was like, oh, you know, there's
a there's a festival on in town. I think I
was going home to Brisye and you know, at the event,
there are these like certain things that are happening. And
one of them was like, you know, newborns and other
new babies you know, are getting smoked like smoky sound right,
(36:33):
And I was like, yeah, I'm like looking forward to that.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
And he's like yeah, cool, cool anyway, talking about his kids.
But and then he goes to y he's starting to
walk out the building. I was like, goat to see
a lava.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Take care. He's done to.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Walk out, and then he calls out to me, like
in front of him, maybe like two one hundred and
fifty people in that office, just yells, booms it out
of his lungs, right, I think, guys, Cody and I
was like, I just just turn my head. I was like, oh, yes,
(37:07):
you guys, good luck with the smoking.
Speaker 5 (37:11):
Oh my god, stay deadly, and then walks out, stay deadly,
good luck with the smoking, stay deadly.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Looks out full confidence.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
One only black fellow at the work too, right, So
everyone's looking at me like, one, I'm smoking, he should
be good luck on that. Now everyone thinks it's gonna
be okay to tell me to stay deadly.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
So did they?
Speaker 1 (37:54):
No, they're educated people.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
But that's so funny. He was really trying with that.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
All that's now. No, that was probably one of the
most my favorite interactions.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah, it was a good one.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
I'm crying. That's fine.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
I'm glad we ended on a funny one.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Another day in the quality take care of yourselves.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Oh Jesus, all right, well there you go. There's my
hectic story that I've been holding on to for months now,
and I just thought it was important to share because
like it's been eating me up. I like, I have
nightmares about this job, not like super frequently, but like
about how I was treated and how I was made
to feel. And I just think it's important to talk
(38:48):
about those things because too often we like just take
it and we go, well, that was horrible. Now I
have to move on and try and find another place.
And thankfully I'm now on a job that I honestly love.
I love my job. It's all around creating a culturally
safe workplace. It's flexible. I have a black manager who
supports me fully, like it's so good, so like honestly
blessing in the guys. But yeah, if you have a hectic,
(39:11):
crazy work story, honestly write it into us or like
messages and come on the podcast and tell your story.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah, we're so keen to do like a work horror
stories or even just like well just horror stories like yeah, series,
there's so many, and for every funny one, there's a
sad one. Every sad one there's funny ones. So love
to share it on Coming Out Black.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, all right, well you can find us at Coming
Out Black blak on Instagram, Facebook. I think we're something
at TikTok soon. There's nothing there yet, but you know
you'll see and you can email us it Coming Out
Black Again Blak at gmail dot com if you want
to come on the podcast, or just write in your
horror story anonymously and we can read we can read
(39:53):
it out. I think of it really fun, and.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Our nomination lines are open to you know, we've had
a few people suggest and nominate people to be interviewed.
If there's an amazing queer black person around you that
you think, you know, we'd love like that. You know,
society in general would benefit from hearing their story like
we all would, even just us. We'd love to tell
it and we love to share it. So yeah, all.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Right, stay deadly, good luck.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Smoking, We're out.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Bye.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Thanks so much for listening to another episode of Coming
Out Black. You can find us on Coming Out Black
b la K on Instagram, Facebook, and anywhere you find
your podcasts. Be sure to follow, rate, and review us
whenever you're listening
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.