October 8, 2025 • 27 mins
This episode asks the age-old question: do opposites attract? From clown dating sites to engineering students meeting nurses, we unpack why we’re drawn to difference, and why it doesn’t always last.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is for general information only and should not
be taken as psychological advice. Listeners should consult with their
healthcare professionals for a specific medical advice.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well. Hello, I'm Amanda Keller.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
And I'm Anita McGregor, and welcome to Double a Chattery.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Anita, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I am doing quite well. How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Didn't we have a nice time On the weekend? We
went to something called was it the Design market Maker's
market Makers Market something like that, in a place called
Carriage Works in Sydney where it was beautifully curated because
they had fantastic artisans, didn't they.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Oh it was like I just felt I could refill
my home.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Oh. Absolutely, beautiful clothes, beautiful handbags, beautiful scar beautiful ceramics.
We both bought some lovely handmade tea cups.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Can we talk about the tea cups.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
We both had exactly the same experience in our separate
homes with our beautiful new teacups.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So these teacups are beautiful. They look like little flowers
with the little paddles. But what it means is that
on the top of the cup, it's kind of what
would you call scalloped top scalloped top. Yeah, so and
so I well, I actually brought mine to work, Commander,
and I was, you know, thinking, oh, I'm just going
to have this beautiful experience of making a lovely cup
of tea and I'm going to pour and it's going
(01:36):
to be gorgeous. And I brought it up to my
lips and had the first sip, and tea just kind
of came out the little edge of the scallop right
onto my weight pants.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
How about you. I had exactly the same thing at home.
I was the same thing. Loved the ritual of it,
this beautiful new teacup. And it didn't occur to me
that where the scallop goes up and then comes down,
don't put your mouth up the down that also just
paws down down your chin. I had exactly the same experience.
I'm not going to stop me using it.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
No, God, No, I've accommodated. And it's you now were
a wetsuit to work. It just works better. Solved that one.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
That one. All right, Well, let's get on with it,
shall we.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Let's so, Amanda, Yes, I had this. So sometimes I
think about strange things, Amanda, Okay, but I was thinking
about the question about do opposites attract? And I was
(02:42):
thinking about dating sites, and I was thinking about, like,
because there are specialized dating sites out there, Amanda. You
may not be aware of this.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Oh yes, I am aware of that, not through my
own experience, but that's what the Internet has done. If
you're someone like Jeffrey Dahmer, you can you can say
I'm interested in someone who wants to be eaten, and
someone put their hand up and say that's me. So
what used to be hidden or used to be disparate people.
If you're a furry and you want to have it
(03:15):
off with someone who dresses like a unicorn, you can
find them now.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Which is I don't know where I sit without there's
a part of me that goes, yay, you know, find
your unicorn. But there's also this part of me that goes,
you know, is that going to be a lasting kind
of thing?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
AMOUNTA Because they're not opposites, I mean, we're targeting too specifically.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, I mean, and I think in you know, all
the rom coms and stuff, it's often these opposites attract.
It's the you know, the big city girl and the
farmer guy, the whole mark, that whole yeah, that Hallmark thing.
I just sig an ad for one that just came
out about you know, some girl who's a you know,
(04:00):
wants to go and be an artist, and you know
the guy is a rancher, and you know, of course
they're going to fall of course they're going to fall.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
In, although from the outset it looks like they've got
nothing in common apart from some coal values at the end.
Because the heart is the most important thing, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
And so there is this part of me that in
thinking about these these dating sites is like, who goes
onto a clown dating site? Is it a like?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Is it a clown?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Is it like like do you are you a clown
looking for another clown? Or are you yeah? Or are
you just somebody who really is into clowns?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Like big feet?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yeah, well you're big feet shoes absolutely so interesting And
so it just you know, again, my head just you know,
my mind goes into you know, do opposites attract?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
What does the what is the research.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Because as you say, well, as you say, research of
popular culture, that's where the drama is, that's where the
comedy is.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, but in real life, in real life, Amanda, in real.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Life, do opposites attractor. But at the same time as
you're saying, if you're dating someone who's just highly, highly
specific to who you are, does that work as well?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Well? And you know, even before dating sites. I remember
when I was at Uni, the both the nursing faculties
and the engineering faculties used to go and put on
parties for each other. And because the idea there is
the number of people who would would well in that parlance,
(05:45):
you know, would would hook up over like, would meet
and enter into relationships.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So the cross pollination of the engineers and the nurses.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, And the thing that was apparently attractive to the
nurses was that they were nurturing people who you know,
had a lot of soft skills, you know, carrying, compassion,
that kind of thing, and they were really attracted to
these often men who who could go and solve a
problem for them. They could go in and you know,
(06:15):
balance their checkbook, and they could do all these things.
And the men found the compassion, the caretaking of the
female as as being really attractive, and so they would
often get together. And one of the things that they
found was that what initially was really attractive became the
(06:40):
thing that the partner hated about the other one. It
was really yeah, that the that the engineer would end
up going, well, you know, why can't you, you know,
learn how to go and you know, keep the house
clean and organize tuitarree kids and you know, get the
car serviced and do that kind of thing, and.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
You know, why are you doing night duty?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah? And then and for her, she was saying like,
can you have a scak of emotion please? And so
it was this opposites attracting. It was the challenge. It
was kind of you know, there was a frisson of
excitement and novelty and and yin and yang, the yin
and the yang of it. But long term it wasn't
(07:24):
as as successful.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
But what does make the success long term?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Well, it's interesting because the research does show that while
we often are attracted to opposites, that that longer term
relationships requires the consistency and agreement on values and so
and it was it's interesting that you know, in looking
(07:53):
at those values, are they something that you I mean,
at twenty twenty five, you know whatever age people or
getting married now thirty, do people really understand what their
values are at that age? I mean, that was kind
of something that came up for me as well, what
did like when you were when a.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Concept of that and fiscal responsibility and all that stuff
that matters so much. So many relationships break up because
of that. Who knows their own feelings of that or
what kind of parents you're going to be or want
to be at that age.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah. Now, when I so when I met Emmett, I
I just you know, felt like he was the guy
that I was going to marry. Like it was very weird,
Like we met and married in a year and we
have been together thirty nine years now, and I think
about it, and I think, you know, how lucky I was.
(08:43):
How did I know? Because I really don't think I did.
That we actually share a lot of values that do.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
You share a lot of values or have you grown
to share values?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Well? I thought about that, you know, because the the
you know, or have we kind of shaved the edges off,
you know? I think that they're some things where couples
get together and you kind of almost polarize versus you know,
coming together as a couple. And and I think for
the most part that we have come together about many things.
(09:15):
There are still some things that we're quite opposite on.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
But it's do you let them go? Do they great?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Like? Hell?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Both?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Quite frankly both. You know, there are some things that
you just you just gritch teeth and go, yep, that's
that's that's him and I in the big picture of things,
I love him, and then there's you know, but most
of the things he does and I just I, you know,
I truly find that, you know, I appreciate that a
lot of the values that we had around raising children,
(09:46):
around you know, how we saw relationship was very was similar.
How about for you and Harley?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Similar sort of story. When I met him, and he's
eleven years older than I am, I just felt the
I remember feeling the weight of the potential of this
could be long term. And maybe that's the timing you
choose that I was in my later twenties, the timing
felt right. But the core things and we are different
(10:14):
in a number of ways. Harley likes it when I
arrange a social event, but he wouldn't be the instigator
of that necessarily.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
But he used to be.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
He used to be when we were first met at
beyond two thousand. He used to organize the parties and things.
But I think I took over that as there's a
partner in a relationship that does that and then the
other one steps back, you go oh, and then I go, oh,
have I got to do this all the time, whereas
I'd created that dynamic, I'm sure absolutely. But the big stuff,
it mattered to me that morally we were aligned, that
(10:47):
even kind of generically politically, I guess we were aligned intellectually,
and I mean I don't mean being intellectual, but I
mean we had sort of similar things. We were interested
in lots of things Harley's interested in, with cars and
stuff I have no interest in. And I know he
can hog the TV for four days to watch a
(11:08):
cricket match. I wouldn't dream of saying, let's watch a
ball in the beautiful four our four day marathon. So
there are things I work around because I just don't
care enough. But the core stuff, the child rearing, all
that stuff has ended up being SYMPATICO. But I remember
(11:35):
you once saying that the opposite of love isn't hate,
it's indifference. And another one I remember you saying that
was so powerful. Is what a gift to find a
partner or try and be a partner that doesn't take
offense easily.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
There is an amazing philosopher. His name is Alan de Paton,
and he wrote one of my favorite books called The
Course of Love Relationships. But when he was asked about
what is the one characteristic or character trait that you
would look for in a partner, and he said, tolerance.
(12:12):
You know, that ability to tolerate that you know your
partner is going to have times where they're going to
lose their mind. You know you're going to lose your mind,
You're going to disagree about stuff, and that ability to
kind of be tolerant of the things that are happening
in your partner's life. And I think that that is
(12:34):
such an important trait to have.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And people who as will look at your comments too,
because we've asked him to help us work out how
it works in your relationships. But people whose differences the
partner not just tolerates but loves is so attractive. If
you're at a party and there's a girl dancing and
her partner just loves watching a dance, happy for her
to take over the dance floor even if he's not.
(13:00):
There's a lack of jealousy in the other person doing
what they do. Yeah, I think that that's the sort
of stuff that would attract you at the beginning, but
that's the sort of thing that could really bring you unstuck.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
I reckon.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Oh yeah, absolutely, And I mean, I you know, one
of Emmett's best qualities is you know, his really undying
support of me. You know, like I just I love
that about him. I love that about a relationship. It
doesn't matter what I decide to try. He's like, I'll
support you. And you know, if I decided I was
(13:34):
going to go and you know, do cross ditch for
a living, he'd go. You know, you'd be great, bring
it on, bring it on. And I just, you know,
I absolutely adore that about him, And it is one
of those enduring traits that that you recognize that, you know,
how do you feed that? How do you keep that going?
(13:54):
Over forty years and again, when I think about some
of the comments that people talked about, you know, they'd
talk you know, a lot of the comments that we
got around it were people who had been married for
a very very long time, and they talked about embracing
the similarities and sometimes embracing those differences.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
We got this message from Diana who said, I've been
married for forty five years. My husband's an introverted analytical nerd.
I'm an extroverted ADHD social butterfly. He loves chess, politics,
and art. I love the gym, theater, musicals and girl trios.
We share a lot of things, long walks, lengthy discussions
on all things topical, etc. We accept our differences and
(14:31):
embrace all the good character traits like loyalty, compassion, caring,
and honesty. We've been through some serious times, but we
always make it because we value each other. I mean,
that's how the roadmap. You want that roadmap to be that,
don't you like, Jennifer, My husband and I were compative,
were complete opposites. He was an academic nerd. I was
a party girl. Loved going out, he loves staying home.
(14:53):
We like traveling together and once I convinced him it
was an adventure. We were happily married for forty years.
He passed away in May and I miss it every day.
But for every one of those, there's probably a relationship
where you haven't been able to make it work because
you are two different.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
It's you know, there's this saying that I thought is brilliant,
is that we tend to go and marry the person
who is least able to meet our needs. Why is that, well,
that is that opposite attract I think, and I think that.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It is.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
There's always that that that you know, the grass is
always greener, the big challenge, all those kinds of things
can come into play. And I think that when you're young,
maybe that's the you know, the human's way of kind
of saying, what does work for me is that you
know that that whole thing about you kiss a lot
(15:46):
of frogs. You know, maybe maybe is that you are
going to get intrigued by, or you know, or feel
really lusty about some kind of you know, person that
you meet who's quite different and it's seems exotic and
exciting and challenging and all those kinds of things, and
then that, you know, that kind of wears off. And
(16:07):
I often think about relationships as as this amazing dance
that when you meet somebody it's lusty and it's wonderful,
and you're having this great dance and you're close, and
it doesn't matter that he's sweaty, or that you're stepping
on his feet or anything else. Who cares? You know,
it's us against the world, and then and then and
(16:28):
then there's that we all have to negotiate that I'm tired,
I need to to separate a little bit, and then
we have to figure out how do we come together
a little bit, and those skills about how we separate
without you know, triggering somebody's.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Abandoned and worse words, a lot of people can use
I need space terrible.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
You know, that can really trigger some you know, person's
abandonment issues or you know, any of those you know
you're going away, how long you're going away for all
that kind of stuff. But then we have to also
nego negotiate coming back together and what does that look like?
And how do we do that without feeling like I'm
always the one that when we argue we have to
(17:10):
you know, I'm the one that comes and makes up.
And how do we how do we actually make it
so that it's you know that we're both feeling as
though we can do this, this this coming together, this separating.
It's almost like I almost think of its like breath
that we come you know, we go apart, we come together,
we go apart, we come together.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Where do we learn those skills and eating you're a
trained psychologist. So you have those skills before it, but
most of us of just flying blind in our.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Lives absolutely, and I, you know, I I grieve maybe
there it's still out there. But I know that when
Im and I were planning on getting married, that there
was marriage courses that we could take. It was through
the church, and there was some faith that was associated
with it. Even though I'm an atheist, I took it,
and I there are some really good, interesting things in
(18:00):
there that we that we are able to take away
those big conversations about values and those kinds of things.
I you know, I think maybe that's what therapy is about.
Couple therapy, you know, because each couple is going to
have their own uh dynamic, and each couple is going
to have to figure out those skills and and you're
going to you know, you're going to have learned some
(18:20):
skills from your family of origin about how to manage
good and like good and bad, and so you're going
to have to figure out, you know, are you the
you know, do you come from a family of talkers
or do you have come from a family of people
who withdraw, you know, and and figuring out, well, how
does that work within our relationship. So it's you know,
it is interesting in thinking about this whole thing about
(18:45):
opposites attract. Sure they do, but not for the long term,
I think is where I would come out at.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
What do you?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Where do you?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I tend to agree. But if you were a clown
and you went to a clowning workshop a clouning dating site,
are you narrowing your pool too much? Did you? See? Paul?
I tried to Yeah, I mean, I mean, how how
that's what we're doing in the dating world now that
we're being highly specific. Yeah. Yeah, it's almost like the
(19:14):
mutant gene in evolution, as you said, kissing a lot
of frogs and working this out? Yeah, do we still
do that? Or were only going for a certain kind
of Amazonian frog?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah? Yeah, so that's yeah. So, you know, I was
thinking about this. We were talking to a producer who
was you know, who was saying that a friend of
hers was on a dating site looking for us three Lankan.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Dots and she wasn't Sri Lankan. No, but she'd narrowed down,
or she narrowed down her sphere of what she wanted
to be that But who do you miss out on
along the way and the pressure you put on that relationship.
It's like if you go to a psychic and they
say you're going to marry someone with a letter J
and so suddenly you're obsessed with that and you meet
(19:55):
Jim and you think must be him. It's pointing the
bone in.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
A way, it is, and you know, thinking about so,
let's say that this friend of our producers, you know,
finds a Sri Lankan doctor who's to say that this
is going to be the love of her life, you know.
And I think it's interesting because there are I think
that there's going to be there's always going to be
that that amazing when you've meet somebody, hopefully that there's
(20:20):
going to be this wonderful, lusty, you know, passionate time
that you have with them, and that that again is
going to wax and wane over the years. And you know,
you and I, you know our marriage is waxed waned,
that's right, yeah, And you know that that you realize
that that that the passion comes and goes in a relationship,
and how do you how do you keep that going?
(20:42):
How do you continue to feed that, how do you
you know, find that relationship over time and if you
have these crazy expectations that I'm going to I Am
going to fall in love with this Sri Lankton doctor, Like,
how do you do you? Maybe maybe that's what you do,
maybe arranged marriages so they work.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Which you see those Bridezilla shows too. I know we
talk about a lot about relationships on this podcast, but
you see those Bridezilla shows. The wedding is the thing.
The marriage, yeah, doesn't really factor into it. The wedding
is the thing, and then it's well, good luck the
other side of it, because there's been given no thought
to actually what that's going to look like. Yeah, and
maybe that's the way it should be in your naivety,
(21:22):
throw yourself into it, learn to love and go for it.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, and yeah, spend some time. I mean, relationships aren't
like a bit later that they're disposable.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
No, that's right.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
I mean we're going through a really tough time with
Harley's health. And if I wasn't a loyal person, and
if I didn't still hold true to who we are,
you know, that's the stuff that you have to dig
deep to keep finding. Absolutely, and if we didn't have
that at our core after all these years, really hard.
(21:55):
And I know there are some couples who go through
this much earlier in their relationship.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Really had really hard. Again, you you have loved Arley
for a very long time, and and you've.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Had been bored by him and been irritated by him.
He of course has just loved me unconditionally the whole time,
because why wouldn't he of course, but we've had those
ups and downs, but there's been this rich seam through it.
And without that this bit would be even harder, even
harder than even harder.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I do know one provisor, when I
say work out it is as long as there's not
a safety issue, work out it.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Okay, what if it's a clown, Well, yeah, I look
at that red nose. They might be a drinker that
I had thought. I haven't even considered that if I
hadn't even trained as a psychologist, And yet here I've
come in with that.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
That is amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, like I just am in ar of your.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Want me to come and talk to your students? You
let me not?
Speaker 4 (22:52):
You could?
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Should we get to our glimmers.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Let's get to our glimmers.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
What have you got for your glimmer? Anita?
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Oh, Amanda, I have been reading Charmian Cliff's books. It's
a weird title. It's called Mermaids Singing Peel Meal Lotus,
which is about their her and her husband's time on
a cup well two Greek islands. But I'm just in
the first Greek island in the I think in the
mid fifties she.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And her husband were famous Australian writers.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Oh yes, and in fact, I think the grand mother
of Geena Chick. Yeah. And oh the writing genes are
strong in that family, Amanda, I tell you. But it's
this beautiful book describing this life on this Greek island,
and it's I'm having such a lovely time reading this
book and just picturing myself on this Greek island, and
(23:56):
like it's just such a sense of community and and laughter.
I mean, it despayed all the poverty and the and
the difficulties and then all and all that goes on
with it. But it's just and it's an amazing book.
I'm really just loving it.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I read the book that her daughter wrote, Gina's Mum
Searching for Charmian, and Gina's mum had been adopted and
grew up in quite a conservative family, I think from
my memory, and when she discovered that she was the
child of these two famous writers who lived this bohemian
(24:32):
artistic lifestyle, the conflict she felt of what she'd missed
out on and that her siblings got her full siblings
got that she didn't. That's another extraordinary book.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Wow, that's next on my reading list. Well, yes, okay,
what is your deep serious well glimmer of my friend.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
I saw something in the Washington Post and now there's
Fomo fear of missing out. There's also Jomo joy It
missing out. And that's I had when I saw this
wonder fill joy It says, come to the adult Hula
Hoop Retreat.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And this did not appeal to you. Abound it.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
It's people with hula hoops. With every August for the
past decade, hula hoopers and other performers with props, known
as flow artists shoot me. I have convened that the
Michigan Hula Dance Retreat to practice a grown up version
of this youthful pastime. People twelve hoops on their arms,
their legs, their necks, and middriffs, sometimes while sliding sideways
(25:35):
down a pole, balancing on one foot, or standing on
the head. All body parts are welcome to give it
a twel Everything is connected, everything is full circle. Set
of retreat. Attendee. You know it's my meditation, said one.
I've never felt more myself than when I'm hula hooping. Okay,
and they're wearing their little butterfly out face Your.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Face in this is just Joe more really Fulljomo.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
If you blindfoldowed me and said you're going on a
mystery flight and I stepped into that glade where they're
all doing that, I'd run screaming from the world.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
With cross stitch in the evening, I would prefer cross
stitch to hula hooping.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Have you tried hula hooping as an adult?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (26:26):
No, No, I'm not able to do it.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
No.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
No, we'd tried to do it at the living room.
How come we could do it as kids and we
can't with adult bodies that have actually got wasists?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Now, well, I don't have a waste anymore. But really,
but thank you, thank you for mentioning that. Now, even
Capsicum's going to hula hoop in it.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Why can't we do it anymore?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
I don't know, because like we you know, you think
that our hips would be child bearing still. Yeah, absolutely,
but no, well we're not not child bearing anymore.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
But yeah, where has that skill gone? I don't why
you know what? I know where there's a retreat. Why
don't we go to Michigan and take part in this, Anita.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Let's do a gofund me start with an.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
On that note, maybe we should go.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Let's see you next time by
Speaker 1 (27:24):
M HM
This podcast is for general information only and should not
be taken as psychological advice. Listeners should consult with their
healthcare professionals for a specific medical advice.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well. Hello, I'm Amanda Keller.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
And I'm Anita McGregor, and welcome to Double a Chattery.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Anita, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I am doing quite well. How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Didn't we have a nice time On the weekend? We
went to something called was it the Design market Maker's
market Makers Market something like that, in a place called
Carriage Works in Sydney where it was beautifully curated because
they had fantastic artisans, didn't they.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Oh it was like I just felt I could refill
my home.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Oh. Absolutely, beautiful clothes, beautiful handbags, beautiful scar beautiful ceramics.
We both bought some lovely handmade tea cups.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Can we talk about the tea cups.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
We both had exactly the same experience in our separate
homes with our beautiful new teacups.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So these teacups are beautiful. They look like little flowers
with the little paddles. But what it means is that
on the top of the cup, it's kind of what
would you call scalloped top scalloped top. Yeah, so and
so I well, I actually brought mine to work, Commander,
and I was, you know, thinking, oh, I'm just going
to have this beautiful experience of making a lovely cup
of tea and I'm going to pour and it's going
(01:36):
to be gorgeous. And I brought it up to my
lips and had the first sip, and tea just kind
of came out the little edge of the scallop right
onto my weight pants.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
How about you. I had exactly the same thing at home.
I was the same thing. Loved the ritual of it,
this beautiful new teacup. And it didn't occur to me
that where the scallop goes up and then comes down,
don't put your mouth up the down that also just
paws down down your chin. I had exactly the same experience.
I'm not going to stop me using it.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
No, God, No, I've accommodated. And it's you now were
a wetsuit to work. It just works better. Solved that one.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
That one. All right, Well, let's get on with it,
shall we.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Let's so, Amanda, Yes, I had this. So sometimes I
think about strange things, Amanda, Okay, but I was thinking
about the question about do opposites attract? And I was
(02:42):
thinking about dating sites, and I was thinking about, like,
because there are specialized dating sites out there, Amanda. You
may not be aware of this.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Oh yes, I am aware of that, not through my
own experience, but that's what the Internet has done. If
you're someone like Jeffrey Dahmer, you can you can say
I'm interested in someone who wants to be eaten, and
someone put their hand up and say that's me. So
what used to be hidden or used to be disparate people.
If you're a furry and you want to have it
(03:15):
off with someone who dresses like a unicorn, you can
find them now.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Which is I don't know where I sit without there's
a part of me that goes, yay, you know, find
your unicorn. But there's also this part of me that goes,
you know, is that going to be a lasting kind
of thing?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
AMOUNTA Because they're not opposites, I mean, we're targeting too specifically.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, I mean, and I think in you know, all
the rom coms and stuff, it's often these opposites attract.
It's the you know, the big city girl and the
farmer guy, the whole mark, that whole yeah, that Hallmark thing.
I just sig an ad for one that just came
out about you know, some girl who's a you know,
(04:00):
wants to go and be an artist, and you know
the guy is a rancher, and you know, of course
they're going to fall of course they're going to fall.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
In, although from the outset it looks like they've got
nothing in common apart from some coal values at the end.
Because the heart is the most important thing, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
And so there is this part of me that in
thinking about these these dating sites is like, who goes
onto a clown dating site? Is it a like?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Is it a clown?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Is it like like do you are you a clown
looking for another clown? Or are you yeah? Or are
you just somebody who really is into clowns?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Like big feet?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yeah, well you're big feet shoes absolutely so interesting And
so it just you know, again, my head just you know,
my mind goes into you know, do opposites attract?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
What does the what is the research.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Because as you say, well, as you say, research of
popular culture, that's where the drama is, that's where the
comedy is.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, but in real life, in real life, Amanda, in real.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Life, do opposites attractor. But at the same time as
you're saying, if you're dating someone who's just highly, highly
specific to who you are, does that work as well?
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Well? And you know, even before dating sites. I remember
when I was at Uni, the both the nursing faculties
and the engineering faculties used to go and put on
parties for each other. And because the idea there is
the number of people who would would well in that parlance,
(05:45):
you know, would would hook up over like, would meet
and enter into relationships.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So the cross pollination of the engineers and the nurses.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, And the thing that was apparently attractive to the
nurses was that they were nurturing people who you know,
had a lot of soft skills, you know, carrying, compassion,
that kind of thing, and they were really attracted to
these often men who who could go and solve a
problem for them. They could go in and you know,
(06:15):
balance their checkbook, and they could do all these things.
And the men found the compassion, the caretaking of the
female as as being really attractive, and so they would
often get together. And one of the things that they
found was that what initially was really attractive became the
(06:40):
thing that the partner hated about the other one. It
was really yeah, that the that the engineer would end
up going, well, you know, why can't you, you know,
learn how to go and you know, keep the house
clean and organize tuitarree kids and you know, get the
car serviced and do that kind of thing, and.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
You know, why are you doing night duty?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah? And then and for her, she was saying like,
can you have a scak of emotion please? And so
it was this opposites attracting. It was the challenge. It
was kind of you know, there was a frisson of
excitement and novelty and and yin and yang, the yin
and the yang of it. But long term it wasn't
(07:24):
as as successful.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
But what does make the success long term?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Well, it's interesting because the research does show that while
we often are attracted to opposites, that that longer term
relationships requires the consistency and agreement on values and so
and it was it's interesting that you know, in looking
(07:53):
at those values, are they something that you I mean,
at twenty twenty five, you know whatever age people or
getting married now thirty, do people really understand what their
values are at that age? I mean, that was kind
of something that came up for me as well, what
did like when you were when a.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Concept of that and fiscal responsibility and all that stuff
that matters so much. So many relationships break up because
of that. Who knows their own feelings of that or
what kind of parents you're going to be or want
to be at that age.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah. Now, when I so when I met Emmett, I
I just you know, felt like he was the guy
that I was going to marry. Like it was very weird,
Like we met and married in a year and we
have been together thirty nine years now, and I think
about it, and I think, you know, how lucky I was.
(08:43):
How did I know? Because I really don't think I did.
That we actually share a lot of values that do.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
You share a lot of values or have you grown
to share values?
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Well? I thought about that, you know, because the the
you know, or have we kind of shaved the edges off,
you know? I think that they're some things where couples
get together and you kind of almost polarize versus you know,
coming together as a couple. And and I think for
the most part that we have come together about many things.
(09:15):
There are still some things that we're quite opposite on.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
But it's do you let them go? Do they great?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Like? Hell?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Both?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Quite frankly both. You know, there are some things that
you just you just gritch teeth and go, yep, that's
that's that's him and I in the big picture of things,
I love him, and then there's you know, but most
of the things he does and I just I, you know,
I truly find that, you know, I appreciate that a
lot of the values that we had around raising children,
(09:46):
around you know, how we saw relationship was very was similar.
How about for you and Harley?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Similar sort of story. When I met him, and he's
eleven years older than I am, I just felt the
I remember feeling the weight of the potential of this
could be long term. And maybe that's the timing you
choose that I was in my later twenties, the timing
felt right. But the core things and we are different
(10:14):
in a number of ways. Harley likes it when I
arrange a social event, but he wouldn't be the instigator
of that necessarily.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
But he used to be.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
He used to be when we were first met at
beyond two thousand. He used to organize the parties and things.
But I think I took over that as there's a
partner in a relationship that does that and then the
other one steps back, you go oh, and then I go, oh,
have I got to do this all the time, whereas
I'd created that dynamic, I'm sure absolutely. But the big stuff,
it mattered to me that morally we were aligned, that
(10:47):
even kind of generically politically, I guess we were aligned intellectually,
and I mean I don't mean being intellectual, but I
mean we had sort of similar things. We were interested
in lots of things Harley's interested in, with cars and
stuff I have no interest in. And I know he
can hog the TV for four days to watch a
(11:08):
cricket match. I wouldn't dream of saying, let's watch a
ball in the beautiful four our four day marathon. So
there are things I work around because I just don't
care enough. But the core stuff, the child rearing, all
that stuff has ended up being SYMPATICO. But I remember
(11:35):
you once saying that the opposite of love isn't hate,
it's indifference. And another one I remember you saying that
was so powerful. Is what a gift to find a
partner or try and be a partner that doesn't take
offense easily.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
There is an amazing philosopher. His name is Alan de Paton,
and he wrote one of my favorite books called The
Course of Love Relationships. But when he was asked about
what is the one characteristic or character trait that you
would look for in a partner, and he said, tolerance.
(12:12):
You know, that ability to tolerate that you know your
partner is going to have times where they're going to
lose their mind. You know you're going to lose your mind,
You're going to disagree about stuff, and that ability to
kind of be tolerant of the things that are happening
in your partner's life. And I think that that is
(12:34):
such an important trait to have.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And people who as will look at your comments too,
because we've asked him to help us work out how
it works in your relationships. But people whose differences the
partner not just tolerates but loves is so attractive. If
you're at a party and there's a girl dancing and
her partner just loves watching a dance, happy for her
to take over the dance floor even if he's not.
(13:00):
There's a lack of jealousy in the other person doing
what they do. Yeah, I think that that's the sort
of stuff that would attract you at the beginning, but
that's the sort of thing that could really bring you unstuck.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
I reckon.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Oh yeah, absolutely, And I mean, I you know, one
of Emmett's best qualities is you know, his really undying
support of me. You know, like I just I love
that about him. I love that about a relationship. It
doesn't matter what I decide to try. He's like, I'll
support you. And you know, if I decided I was
(13:34):
going to go and you know, do cross ditch for
a living, he'd go. You know, you'd be great, bring
it on, bring it on. And I just, you know,
I absolutely adore that about him, And it is one
of those enduring traits that that you recognize that, you know,
how do you feed that? How do you keep that going?
(13:54):
Over forty years and again, when I think about some
of the comments that people talked about, you know, they'd
talk you know, a lot of the comments that we
got around it were people who had been married for
a very very long time, and they talked about embracing
the similarities and sometimes embracing those differences.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
We got this message from Diana who said, I've been
married for forty five years. My husband's an introverted analytical nerd.
I'm an extroverted ADHD social butterfly. He loves chess, politics,
and art. I love the gym, theater, musicals and girl trios.
We share a lot of things, long walks, lengthy discussions
on all things topical, etc. We accept our differences and
(14:31):
embrace all the good character traits like loyalty, compassion, caring,
and honesty. We've been through some serious times, but we
always make it because we value each other. I mean,
that's how the roadmap. You want that roadmap to be that,
don't you like, Jennifer, My husband and I were compative,
were complete opposites. He was an academic nerd. I was
a party girl. Loved going out, he loves staying home.
(14:53):
We like traveling together and once I convinced him it
was an adventure. We were happily married for forty years.
He passed away in May and I miss it every day.
But for every one of those, there's probably a relationship
where you haven't been able to make it work because
you are two different.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
It's you know, there's this saying that I thought is brilliant,
is that we tend to go and marry the person
who is least able to meet our needs. Why is that, well,
that is that opposite attract I think, and I think that.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It is.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
There's always that that that you know, the grass is
always greener, the big challenge, all those kinds of things
can come into play. And I think that when you're young,
maybe that's the you know, the human's way of kind
of saying, what does work for me is that you
know that that whole thing about you kiss a lot
(15:46):
of frogs. You know, maybe maybe is that you are
going to get intrigued by, or you know, or feel
really lusty about some kind of you know, person that
you meet who's quite different and it's seems exotic and
exciting and challenging and all those kinds of things, and
then that, you know, that kind of wears off. And
(16:07):
I often think about relationships as as this amazing dance
that when you meet somebody it's lusty and it's wonderful,
and you're having this great dance and you're close, and
it doesn't matter that he's sweaty, or that you're stepping
on his feet or anything else. Who cares? You know,
it's us against the world, and then and then and
(16:28):
then there's that we all have to negotiate that I'm tired,
I need to to separate a little bit, and then
we have to figure out how do we come together
a little bit, and those skills about how we separate
without you know, triggering somebody's.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Abandoned and worse words, a lot of people can use
I need space terrible.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
You know, that can really trigger some you know, person's
abandonment issues or you know, any of those you know
you're going away, how long you're going away for all
that kind of stuff. But then we have to also
nego negotiate coming back together and what does that look like?
And how do we do that without feeling like I'm
always the one that when we argue we have to
(17:10):
you know, I'm the one that comes and makes up.
And how do we how do we actually make it
so that it's you know that we're both feeling as
though we can do this, this this coming together, this separating.
It's almost like I almost think of its like breath
that we come you know, we go apart, we come together,
we go apart, we come together.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Where do we learn those skills and eating you're a
trained psychologist. So you have those skills before it, but
most of us of just flying blind in our.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Lives absolutely, and I, you know, I I grieve maybe
there it's still out there. But I know that when
Im and I were planning on getting married, that there
was marriage courses that we could take. It was through
the church, and there was some faith that was associated
with it. Even though I'm an atheist, I took it,
and I there are some really good, interesting things in
(18:00):
there that we that we are able to take away
those big conversations about values and those kinds of things.
I you know, I think maybe that's what therapy is about.
Couple therapy, you know, because each couple is going to
have their own uh dynamic, and each couple is going
to have to figure out those skills and and you're
going to you know, you're going to have learned some
(18:20):
skills from your family of origin about how to manage
good and like good and bad, and so you're going
to have to figure out, you know, are you the
you know, do you come from a family of talkers
or do you have come from a family of people
who withdraw, you know, and and figuring out, well, how
does that work within our relationship. So it's you know,
it is interesting in thinking about this whole thing about
(18:45):
opposites attract. Sure they do, but not for the long term,
I think is where I would come out at.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
What do you?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Where do you?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I tend to agree. But if you were a clown
and you went to a clowning workshop a clouning dating site,
are you narrowing your pool too much? Did you? See? Paul?
I tried to Yeah, I mean, I mean, how how
that's what we're doing in the dating world now that
we're being highly specific. Yeah. Yeah, it's almost like the
(19:14):
mutant gene in evolution, as you said, kissing a lot
of frogs and working this out? Yeah, do we still
do that? Or were only going for a certain kind
of Amazonian frog?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah? Yeah, so that's yeah. So, you know, I was
thinking about this. We were talking to a producer who
was you know, who was saying that a friend of
hers was on a dating site looking for us three Lankan.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Dots and she wasn't Sri Lankan. No, but she'd narrowed down,
or she narrowed down her sphere of what she wanted
to be that But who do you miss out on
along the way and the pressure you put on that relationship.
It's like if you go to a psychic and they
say you're going to marry someone with a letter J
and so suddenly you're obsessed with that and you meet
(19:55):
Jim and you think must be him. It's pointing the
bone in.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
A way, it is, and you know, thinking about so,
let's say that this friend of our producers, you know,
finds a Sri Lankan doctor who's to say that this
is going to be the love of her life, you know.
And I think it's interesting because there are I think
that there's going to be there's always going to be
that that amazing when you've meet somebody, hopefully that there's
(20:20):
going to be this wonderful, lusty, you know, passionate time
that you have with them, and that that again is
going to wax and wane over the years. And you know,
you and I, you know our marriage is waxed waned,
that's right, yeah, And you know that that you realize
that that that the passion comes and goes in a relationship,
and how do you how do you keep that going?
(20:42):
How do you continue to feed that, how do you
you know, find that relationship over time and if you
have these crazy expectations that I'm going to I Am
going to fall in love with this Sri Lankton doctor, Like,
how do you do you? Maybe maybe that's what you do,
maybe arranged marriages so they work.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Which you see those Bridezilla shows too. I know we
talk about a lot about relationships on this podcast, but
you see those Bridezilla shows. The wedding is the thing.
The marriage, yeah, doesn't really factor into it. The wedding
is the thing, and then it's well, good luck the
other side of it, because there's been given no thought
to actually what that's going to look like. Yeah, and
maybe that's the way it should be in your naivety,
(21:22):
throw yourself into it, learn to love and go for it.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, and yeah, spend some time. I mean, relationships aren't
like a bit later that they're disposable.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
No, that's right.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
I mean we're going through a really tough time with
Harley's health. And if I wasn't a loyal person, and
if I didn't still hold true to who we are,
you know, that's the stuff that you have to dig
deep to keep finding. Absolutely, and if we didn't have
that at our core after all these years, really hard.
(21:55):
And I know there are some couples who go through
this much earlier in their relationship.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Really had really hard. Again, you you have loved Arley
for a very long time, and and you've.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Had been bored by him and been irritated by him.
He of course has just loved me unconditionally the whole time,
because why wouldn't he of course, but we've had those
ups and downs, but there's been this rich seam through it.
And without that this bit would be even harder, even
harder than even harder.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah. Absolutely, And I do know one provisor, when I
say work out it is as long as there's not
a safety issue, work out it.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Okay, what if it's a clown, Well, yeah, I look
at that red nose. They might be a drinker that
I had thought. I haven't even considered that if I
hadn't even trained as a psychologist, And yet here I've
come in with that.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
That is amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, like I just am in ar of your.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Want me to come and talk to your students? You
let me not?
Speaker 4 (22:52):
You could?
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Should we get to our glimmers.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Let's get to our glimmers.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
What have you got for your glimmer? Anita?
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Oh, Amanda, I have been reading Charmian Cliff's books. It's
a weird title. It's called Mermaids Singing Peel Meal Lotus,
which is about their her and her husband's time on
a cup well two Greek islands. But I'm just in
the first Greek island in the I think in the
mid fifties she.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And her husband were famous Australian writers.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Oh yes, and in fact, I think the grand mother
of Geena Chick. Yeah. And oh the writing genes are
strong in that family, Amanda, I tell you. But it's
this beautiful book describing this life on this Greek island,
and it's I'm having such a lovely time reading this
book and just picturing myself on this Greek island, and
(23:56):
like it's just such a sense of community and and laughter.
I mean, it despayed all the poverty and the and
the difficulties and then all and all that goes on
with it. But it's just and it's an amazing book.
I'm really just loving it.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I read the book that her daughter wrote, Gina's Mum
Searching for Charmian, and Gina's mum had been adopted and
grew up in quite a conservative family, I think from
my memory, and when she discovered that she was the
child of these two famous writers who lived this bohemian
(24:32):
artistic lifestyle, the conflict she felt of what she'd missed
out on and that her siblings got her full siblings
got that she didn't. That's another extraordinary book.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Wow, that's next on my reading list. Well, yes, okay,
what is your deep serious well glimmer of my friend.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
I saw something in the Washington Post and now there's
Fomo fear of missing out. There's also Jomo joy It
missing out. And that's I had when I saw this
wonder fill joy It says, come to the adult Hula
Hoop Retreat.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And this did not appeal to you. Abound it.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
It's people with hula hoops. With every August for the
past decade, hula hoopers and other performers with props, known
as flow artists shoot me. I have convened that the
Michigan Hula Dance Retreat to practice a grown up version
of this youthful pastime. People twelve hoops on their arms,
their legs, their necks, and middriffs, sometimes while sliding sideways
(25:35):
down a pole, balancing on one foot, or standing on
the head. All body parts are welcome to give it
a twel Everything is connected, everything is full circle. Set
of retreat. Attendee. You know it's my meditation, said one.
I've never felt more myself than when I'm hula hooping. Okay,
and they're wearing their little butterfly out face Your.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Face in this is just Joe more really Fulljomo.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
If you blindfoldowed me and said you're going on a
mystery flight and I stepped into that glade where they're
all doing that, I'd run screaming from the world.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
With cross stitch in the evening, I would prefer cross
stitch to hula hooping.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Have you tried hula hooping as an adult?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (26:26):
No, No, I'm not able to do it.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
No.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
No, we'd tried to do it at the living room.
How come we could do it as kids and we
can't with adult bodies that have actually got wasists?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Now, well, I don't have a waste anymore. But really,
but thank you, thank you for mentioning that. Now, even
Capsicum's going to hula hoop in it.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Why can't we do it anymore?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
I don't know, because like we you know, you think
that our hips would be child bearing still. Yeah, absolutely,
but no, well we're not not child bearing anymore.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
But yeah, where has that skill gone? I don't why
you know what? I know where there's a retreat. Why
don't we go to Michigan and take part in this, Anita.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Let's do a gofund me start with an.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
On that note, maybe we should go.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Let's see you next time by
Speaker 1 (27:24):
M HM
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